Rob Lee: Welcome to the Truth and its Art, your source of the conversations connecting art, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee. Accept no substitutes. Today I'm excited to be joined by a multi-award-winning classical actress and Shakespearean specialist whose credits span the region's leading theaters from Folger Theater to Roundhouse Theater to Shakespeare Theater Company. My guest has earned three Helen Hayes Awards. co-founded Eminent Theatre Company and has appeared on screen in Godfather of Harlem and Law & Order. And my guest is joining me today to discuss Folger Theater's production of Measure for Measure.
So joining me today is Renea Brown. Welcome to The Truth in this Art. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Thank you for being here. And um starting off, um, I always like to give the guests space and room to introduce themselves in their own terms in their own words. Because you know, as I was saying earlier, you can uh tell your story better than I can. So if you will, for the folks unfamiliar, could you introduce yourself in your own words? I have a quick follow-up after that, but um please.
Renea S. Brown: Sure. Uh yes, my name is Renya. Renee rhymes with Korea, and uh I am from Lexington, Kentucky, where I I grew up. I was born, I grew up there with my parents and um four other siblings.
So I'm one of five. Um I've always been a storyteller uh since I was a child. I just loved watching movies, acting out scenes, whatnot, uh, you know, doing little performances for my own family.
And so when I started studying, I was nine. So all this has been a part of my journey. This is who I am. Um I am a storyteller, I'm an artist, and along the way I picked up some other some other tools in my belt, um, writing. I I like to call myself a a lowercase W writer, um Lowercase D director, you know, it's there.
I'm dipping my toes. Um so that's you know, that's who I am. I'm I'm also an educator. I I have uh taught students from elementary all the way to the college level, uh professional artists, so uh I take pride in that as well. I'm I'm also an educator.
Rob Lee: Wonderful, wonderful. And I I like how you make that distinction, like low lowercase, lowercase on a few of these, but they're developing.
Renea S. Brown: Yeah, it's yeah, the it's this growing.
Rob Lee: As as we get more reps and we we feel more confident that we can add that that layer and maybe add that, you know, maybe an accent to it. Maybe it's a cursive D for director, maybe it's
Renea S. Brown: like a little gothic uh W for writer, all of those things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, italicized, yeah.
Rob Lee: Underline to all of it. Your whole keyboard. So could you going back, could you share perhaps your first time on stage? I think it's something when we go back and think about those early moments, and sometimes I love listening to folks, especially um and doing this series. I'm approaching a thousand episodes, right? And Congratulations.
Thank you. And there are some folks that I've had on twice, and I may ask the question like the first time, they'll give me one answer, and then I'll ask it again sort of later. Maybe it's a hack thing, or maybe I'm being, you know, a little bit more thoughtful. And I noticed the ch the thing changes a little bit in that I was on stage technically, but when I really felt like I was on stage when I felt like I made that first song or what have you, and so tracing those steps back. So for yourself, you know, first time on stage where you're like, okay, I'm I'm acting, I'm I'm doing it, I'm I'm doing something, or maybe it was like, you know, I always joke, I can play a tree, I'm six foot four, so I feel like I could be in the background. I could do something. I was on stage, I wasn't acting, but I was there.
Renea S. Brown: Yes. I um the the first time I was on stage, it was in fourth grade, and it was the midsummer night's dream. Um that should have been the foreshadowing for you know what what was to come, but um I played a fairy and uh and so I I went to a performing art school uh called Scaffa, School of the Creative and Performing Arts. And with that, you know, we have our um we were performing at the Lexington Opera House. So we had a huge stage and you know, you have crew and your director, you know, all all these people, but they also ask parents to volunteer wherever they can. And my mom uh volunteered to to help with costumes and also with makeup, and what that required was these paint buckets and paint brushes filled with like liquid glitter, and they would paint them on our arms and our legs, and and I have a picture of this, my knees were ashy, but um but it was uh I think that was the first time where I felt like wow, I'm I'm doing something real. Um and I was I was a a fairy that took part in um the Titania and Oberon scene, and these students were in high school who played Tanya and Oberon because the school goes from um elementary to high school, uh, but even watching them uh rehearse and talking to me, I'm like, oh, this is they're including me, and this is it just it was very special. The the collaborative nature of it is what what drew me in that like I am I am but a cog in the machine, but like I am an important cog.
Um so like I think I think I understood ensemble uh gratefully so before I learned about and my role is you know, um yeah, that was my that was the first time I was actually on stage. Wow.
Rob Lee: And uh that's like recognizing sort of the important cog nature of things, that's the underlying cog. So you already got that out of Yeah, yeah.
Renea S. Brown: Already already done. You have to learn to be humble, start humble.
Rob Lee: Yeah, yeah. And you know, as as I was touching on um in in the uh pre-show um as far as letting the guests cook, you kind of started, you know, that that next question, which is really good. Smooth on you, you're a little overachiever action there. I like this, I like this.
Renea S. Brown: The story of my life.
Rob Lee: So with the you you that that's kind of that as you touched on the the foreshadowing, if you will, and sort of that entry point, I suppose, into to Shakespeare, and I see obviously Shakespearean specialist when I do the research in the background uh attached to your name and your your background, going through old podcasts and stuff. I did some research.
Renea S. Brown: Um yeah, yeah.
Rob Lee: So it think I'm thinking about this, like I hear when I you know, going through high school, going through uh some stuff in college, like Shakespeare is being presented as challenging for for many people, it's challenging to connect with what makes it perhaps challenging and you know, for people to connect with from your perspective and why did you connect with it, I suppose.
Renea S. Brown: Um yeah, I love this question. It's it's challenging because other people tell you it is, because people in power tell you that it is. until I learned the cheat code, which is, oh, if I actually, if I just look up the words on my own, it's work that I have to do. But if I look up what these words mean, what these references are about, what they're referring to, I kind of think I am grasping what's being said here. And that's from the perspective of me doing the work, the text work myself.
But I think... As an audience member, what makes it challenging is you may be seeing a production where it wasn't super important to the director for the actors to know, like, we do want to spend time on making words that we don't really use make sense, as opposed to, I don't get it, it's just beautiful language and we're just going to play it like it's beautiful language. That is sometimes challenging.
It's like I... I mean, I could go home and read the Bible if that's what I wanted, Um was to just hear something well written um out loud. But but I think that's that is also what makes it challenging if the actors don't know themselves what's being said or what story that they're telling, it's very clear. If you don't if you don't recognize what you're saying, if you don't understand the story, then the audience won't either. So I think that that can make it challenging for for an audience member.
But um, sorry if you hear noise, my it's my boyfriend's opening night, so it is opening night day uh for us. Um so yeah, that's that's what I would say is uh I guess challenging about it and and taking the time it is a challenge to take the time to do the text work, you know, to look up all of the words that you're familiar with and unfamiliar with. Um and and also as an actor, I cannot you know, if there's a a reference to a joke that was referring to a Greek play, um so and so swimming the hella spawn. Like I can't I can't act that out for an audience.
I can only say it. So there are some some bits and pieces where, you know, if you have a great dramaturg, they'll say that's not really necessary. We can cut that. But you try your best to to make things clear. But that's how I would that's why I would say it's challenging.
Rob Lee: Thank you. That's that's that's great. It maybe made me feel like I was a little bit more like smart like that's that's a great answer. It's a great answer. It's a great answer.
Renea S. Brown: Yeah. And even you know, you don't have to be a genius to understand this work. How many times have you been in a conversation with someone and they use a word that you don't know but you can use context clues. Are they tipped? Are they happy?
Are they excited? Like you can use context clues to go, okay, uh I can look that up that specific word up later but like I know the gist of what's happening.
Rob Lee: It it's in some ways kind of counter to how we consume media as far as like you don't have to be engaged with it. You can just have it on in the background and oh maybe that caught my attention but it's it is is I like that notion of I don't necessarily know that word. I understand that context let me look that back up. I used to do that all the time.
I would underline it. I used to be one of those dudes that would read the dictionary I was like look I'm I'm reading from Shakespeare today. Let me let me stretch my brain real quick get myself right and go into with that context to to be a to appreciate it and be able to do what I like to play with the the high and the low art of it. It's just like this is a a low art I enjoy it I do it well I suppose but when I go to that high art it's just like all right let me lock in and be engaged.
Renea S. Brown: Yeah yeah and you and you I mean you start to realize like oh this I have I have experienced this story in some form or another like in history in my own life so like this is just a different way that someone else has described it. This is a different way that someone else has said their their perspective. Yeah it's all it's all the same.
Rob Lee: Is it and this and this kind of goes into this next question is it perhaps because it's highly adaptable that Shakespeare remains like relevant these stories remain relevant to this day like looking at some of the dates. I thought 16 in the beginning of one of them that's a long time ago and we're in 2026. Those numbers are different.
Renea S. Brown: It's like those um you ever see those those videos where it's like what year were you born? 19 and then it shows like it's old time yeah they were dinosaurs there.
Rob Lee: Yeah exactly exactly so is is so that that relevancy kind of carries like sort of over that time because there's certain truths that are there or is it because like at the root of it it's just like there's only so many stories you can tell when there's flourishes and then changes here how what is it about it that kind of keeps it relevant so so many years later after let's say the the play that we're going to discuss a bit later um that was was initially out.
Renea S. Brown: I think it's I mean it's history repeating itself. It's people repeating themselves time um you know we we have had a taste uh I I won't speak for everyone listening here but we un we can understand what it is to have a corrupt leader or to witness corrupt leadership. No matter what what uh aisle of the um politics whatever side of the politics you're on you know that there's been someone in charge that you haven't agreed with um and they may be corrupt or you we all know what it feels like to fall in love or maybe think that we were in love um and perhaps we know what we know what it looks like on other people and maybe we're jealous of that Iago.
You know maybe we want we're jealous we want something that someone else has. It doesn't mean you know for me to understand uh Macbeth or Lady Macbeth that like I have to have a husband that I'm gonna convince him to kill like a king for but I know what ambition feels like and I know what seeing um a huge amount of potential in someone looks like and going just do it just make the leap uh we we know these are these are common things that live in our world and have existed in our world before we got here and will remain here long after we're gone. So I I mean that's what makes it relevant or you know universal as as cliche as it is to say, but it's it's the truth.
Rob Lee: I agree. I agree. Um so moving to this next question as we continue to build. Um so I'm based in Baltimore, a little north of this this this DC situation, right? And um one of our famous theater, famous like sort of export folks is Andre de Shields, and he once said that uh theater is a 2003 um interview again, those dinosaurs from the past, right?
2003. Um but he once said that theater is life enhanced. How do you view theater like I you know I try to get into the thinking when I'm talking to people who are artists who are creative folks, creative personalities. I don't want to just get like purely processed, I want to get that full life scope around it. And I think this sort of uh observation from the Shields is very interesting. Well how do you view theater?
Renea S. Brown: I I I agree with I agree with Mr. DeShields there. You know, I'm I think that um theater is also a a debate, like at the end of the at the end of a play or at the end of a musical or a movie or a TV show, but but mostly theater. I think I know watching the play, I think I know I wouldn't have done that. Well, all he had to do was all they needed was like and and I can have that that conversation with myself, but when I start to engage with other people in the lobby during intermission or a friend who I went with, that there is some sort of and and just because something is a debate doesn't mean it has to be negative, but there's like um conflicting thoughts, conflicting ideas.
That's what I am most interested in. And that's why I love the theater. That's what the theater is to me. It's it is a topic of debate. Um that it is very easy for us to sit back and watch a movie and say, shoo him or watch a play and say, kill him.
Okay, and what would you really do in that situation? You know, um I I was thinking about Hamlet the other day, and how many times he tells the audience, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna avenge my father, his father comes to him, avenge me. I I'm gonna do it. I s I promise, I promise I'm gonna do it. We see him throughout the entire play, promising that he that it's he's gonna make it happen. And you know, uh uh yes, it is beautiful language, yes, there are other characters, there there are other there's other action uh in the play, but um but I found myself thinking about that of how many times I've seen Hamlet going, my God, would you just do it?
Get it over with. But you know, if my dad came to me as a ghost, I would have I I would have some some concerns, I'd be anxious, I'd be worried, and you know, Hamlet has an audience to talk to. I don't know if I would share that with anybody. You know, that's that is um that's what I mean, like just that that debate that you're having, not only with yourself, but with with the people who you're witnessing this story with. That's theater to me.
Rob Lee: That's a great answer. So we're as we we get to sort of the the the big chunk of the big meat of our our conversation, we're discussing measure for measure today. So could you describe the play for folks who are unfamiliar with it? And I'm gonna start like peppering you with questions, almost like throwing scotch bonnets and so on at this.
Renea S. Brown: Yes. So oh boy, how can I explain measure for measure? So there is a city, uh, Vienna, and the city has uh been sort of lax in its rules um with its residents. Uh people are having sex, they're fornicating, they are gambling, they're drinking. Um, but it seems like they live lawlessly. But there is a Duke who is in charge, and under his rule, the this is how people are living. So the Duke is he's aware of that and has to leave the city. He says he's gonna leave the city, and he puts another official in charge, Angelo.
Um, and he tells Angelo basically, you know, you have the full scope of the law. I think the Duke is really saying, Can you clean this up for me? Um And so the Duke says he's gonna he's gonna go. But we as the audience know that he's he's going to go into the the underbelly of Vienna and see what's happening and live amongst the people as a friar.
So when I say Duke slash friar, that's what I mean. Um so Angelo gets to work immediately, and he's like, uh, there is a man who I'm gonna make an example out of. Um he has got his name is Claudio. Claudio has gotten a woman named Julieta pregnant. Um and they're not married yet. Uh they were going to get married. But but Angelo says, I'm gonna make Claudio an example of the law.
I'm gonna put him in jail, and then we're gonna cut off his head, and people will know you know, fornicating will not be tolerated here in Vienna. Claudio has a sister named Isabella, who is uh a novice nun. She's beginning her uh her probationary period, um the day that we start the play.
Every Shakespeare play it's like today's today. Um so she's starting her probationary period, and a messenger, Lucio comes to her and says, Hey, this is what's happening with your brother. Maybe you can change Angelo's mind.
I hear that you are uh a woman with a woman of words, and um, you know, that that people are enamored by you when you speak. So Isabella goes to Angelo, she begs for her brother's life, makes some great points as to why he should be released. Angelo says, Come back to me tomorrow, I'll think about it. And then he leans to the audience and says, Oh my god, I think I'm into her.
Um, I never felt this way before. So Isabella comes back and says, Hey, you wanted me to come back the next day, and he says hypocritically, I'll release your butt brother if you have sex with me. And she's like, um, hell no. And he tells her, uh, and and there's some some form of violating there. I don't, I'm not gonna say that it is uh um I don't know all I can say on your podcast.
Uh it he is not um forcibly going to have sex with her in in that uh scene, not in our play anyway, but but there's some form of of violation that sort of stops her in her tracks and and makes her think, what am I, what am I going to do? This is a corrupt man who is in power, and he and he has my brother's life in his hand. I'll go I'm gonna go to my brother and tell him what's going on. She goes to her see her brother in the jail, and she's like, You you have to die.
I'm sorry, I tried. And the brother Claudio says, I understand. I mean, is sex so bad of a sin? It's like a man like him is asking for it, and so uh, you know, Isabella is like, are you crazy? I have I'm gonna sever this relationship with you. You couldn't, you couldn't have come from my father because that we come from honorable people. You are not honorable, and I hope that you die. So she has secluded her, so she has no one now, but this random friar, aka the Duke, uh says, Hey, I know how to save your brother's life.
I know how to make sure that you are not uh tainted, um, and that we can help another young woman out named Marianna. Mariana and Angelo used to be engaged to each other, and then the dowry didn't come through due to a shipwreck, surprise surprise, Shakespeare loves shipwreck. Um she couldn't uh give give her dowry, and and also um Angelo started telling people that she was deceitful, you know, cheating, cheating on him. But if we go to her and ask her, will she sleep with Angelo in your place?
Maybe this can work. And Isabella agrees to that. They speak to Mariana, Mariana agrees to it, and it takes place. Um, do you think that Claudio was freed?
No. Uh instead, the next day, Angelo still sins for his head. Um, and the the Duke tell the Duke slash friar tells Isabella, don't worry, the Duke is gonna be here tomorrow.
You and Mariana are going to tell how corrupt this man is, you're gonna tell, you know, what happened, and uh and let's see if the Duke can solve this for you. And they do. Um Isabella calls for justice at the end of the play, they call her crazy, they call her mad. Um this woman coming to tell the truth about a man in power is that she's called his a hysterical woman, everyone. Um they send her to jail for saying so Mariana tells her truth. Um and then Angelo says, Okay, you know what, that is true.
I did, I was engaged to her, but I've never I haven't talked to her, I haven't seen her in years. Um and Mariana says, well, essentially you thought you were having sex with Isabella, you were really having sex with me. So out of all this chaos, um, the Duke says, All right, I I know that these women are telling the truth because I was I was there, I was undercover, and uh Angelo, you've now been sentenced to death. And Mariana says, Isabella, please beg for his life. Um and Isabella for for me makes a very difficult decision in forgiving him.
She does forgive him, she does r redeem him, and he gets to live. And because the Duke slash friar is is so good at being undercover, um, he found a way, a loophole around not having Claudio lose his head. So then we see that Claudio is revealed to be alive, as is Juliet.
Um Claudio and Juliet can get married, Mariana and Angelo can get married, and even crazier, the Duke asks Isabella, who, if you forgot, is a novice nun, he asks her to marry him, and that is the end of the play.
Rob Lee: You you you took us through the process. I love it. I love it. And it and and with that, and thank you. Uh that's that's just like just going through like that encyclopedic like knowledge. It's like, yeah, so here's the whole thing.
Let me just claim this out for you. Just if you didn't remember this detail, also, you know, Shakespeare and this is shipwreck, which is like, all right. Here's these of five, which is just really great.
Renea S. Brown: He loves Shakespeare, he loves uh um this, you know, masking, go going undercover, he loves twins, he's all all kinds of things, yeah.
Rob Lee: So I I can see some I guess uh timeliness of some of the themes right now. But for for you, what are what are the themes of the play that that resonate that really stick out for you specifically in in this moment? Like if you could like point out maybe one or two themes and sort of like why they really like resonate for you, like right now in 2026.
Renea S. Brown: Certainly justice, um and under that that umbrella of justice of who who gets to ask for it and who gets to approve it. Um there are plenty of social understand unwritten social rules that we all understand, like it's rude to cut people in lines, it's it's um rude to put your hands on people who you don't know, right? Like we understand that, but the rules are still broken, but certain it's like certain rules apply to some more than others, and uh this idea of of asking for justice is uh interesting for me because uh there are times where I have believed and I also have witnessed, well, I don't think anything would be done if I were to speak up about that, or I'm just one person, or who would believe me, which is the question Isabella asks. Um, who would believe me if I if I told this thing about someone's favorite person?
Everybody loves this person. Would they believe me if I said that they did me wrong in a really abusive way? Uh it's not worth the trouble. Versus What's on the other side? If you do ask for justice, do are other people uh enlightened to tell their truth? Are other people in in uh able to believe that like even the even the people who we see could do no wrong? We could assume could do no wrong that maybe they aren't as perfect as we were making them out to be.
Uh maybe I'm not as perfect as I thought I was. So this idea of of justice asking for asking for it versus demanding it. Um And if it if it is worse was it worth it in the end to ask for for justice to make that's a that's a big a big theme and of course forgiveness uh redemption who is who are uh who are we able to redeem as a people I wonder what the what audiences will think again that debate that I was talking about you know is is Angelo redeemable do people say oh my god Isabella's crazy I would never forgive him for for taking me through all of that chaos or that violation or are there people saying well yeah we do have to forget he made a mistake you're not perfect I'm not perfect um so yeah re ri uh redemption and for forgiveness mercy all of that goes along with justice justice and mercy forgiveness
Rob Lee: redemption yeah it makes sense and I think uh with it and and we're not gonna delve too deep into it because we're going to go to this next question but I think definitely sort of topics and discourse again as you touched on I'm glad you said it the debate component of it because I think with some of the folks I've talked to and different productions that I've you know just talk to folks and I have access I don't know and you know getting sort of a sense of what are the topics what are we what are the conversations we're trying to engage with with the play with the subject matter but then also with sort of society at large and sort of the post conversations like you leave with something you leave with perhaps thinking of things in a different way and you know there's a lot of stuff sort of like online on how we deal with some of these same sort of themes and these same sort of concepts and it's very skewed but I don't know if that's always a real human debate. I think it's a lot of times we're just chatting with robots and it's it's pushing a certain direction. Yeah. And one of the things that came up in in in the research for this particular production this particular play rather is problem play.
What's what's meant by that because like I'm not hip. So you know please please please help us out with that because you know I've heard of problem child that's that's a whole different thing but problem play
Renea S. Brown: yeah so um it m uh Renia's definition problem plays I always end up going wait what um but what is what is a problem play so uh throughout uh Shakespeare's folios and they're still divided this way um scholars have have split his plays into categories these are history plays these are comedies these are tragedies but in some of these plays you have a blend of them um comedy usually ends with marriages uh or a marriage and tragedy usually ends with death uh and because this play is a dark comedy and it has both that is what makes it a a problem play right you don't have a perfect bow um tying the play up at the end I mean and tragedies can have that too like great and the villain died and also these people died unfortunately and now we're gonna start our new country right like that's that's putting a bow on top or saying oh my gosh we've had miscommunication this whole play do you want to marry this person? I do. Do you want to marry them? I do.
Great that's the bow. But these plays again like I said oddly enough just as one example the the Duke asks Isabella to marry her and she has no lines and the the play continues I mean he asked her twice actually and after she pleads for Angelo's life she doesn't say anything else Mariana doesn't say anything else Juliet doesn't say anything. So n none of the women speak and you have these proposals but there's no direct answer. That's like part of a problem play I would say. And and you could also look at two gentlemen of Verona kind of ends in the same way um there uh merchant of Venice is seen as a problem play uh uh also but ends well yeah not not a whole lot but there are certainly
Rob Lee: some thank you for thank you for uh enlightening me and the the listeners on that one because you you see it out there like I'm gonna have a problem if I watch this one I'm gonna have issues it's like that's not what what we mean um so you're you're playing Isabella and um so you know you and you've you've touched on earlier as I'm editing the questions as I go along again let the guests cook it works. Um what has you specifically excited for for playing Isabella and um talk about your your method and and prep for preparing to get into um this character or just getting into character generally, I would imagine it it varies like you know, my preparation for each of these these interviews is is different, obviously, but there's certain things that are you know c that that carry over from conversation to conversation and other times you might have like a little bit more work, a little less work. So could you talk a bit about sort of you know, playing Isabella, your your excitement around it and and preparing to to play Isabella?
Renea S. Brown: Yeah, I um you know, measure for measure doesn't come around often. But oddly enough, this this is the third time that I've done it. And the first time I played uh Juliet, the second time I played Mariana, and and now I'm playing Isabella. So I'm I'm like, oh, am I gonna hit eventually I'll get to Mistress Overdone?
Like, am I gonna hit all the women in the play? Um, so that's the it it is exciting in a technical sense of like, you know, I have this this dream where I'd like to there are certain roles that I would Shakespearean roles I like to play, and if I can do all of the plays, all thirty-seven of them. Um but I I I was excited because I I knew that I wanted to do the show. I knew I wanted to play Isabella and um on the the day of auditions, um Danica, the the casting director, she she came out and said, Hey, so I just want to let you know, um, think about start to think about like Jim Crow South.
And I went, what? And she was like, Yeah, that's that's where we'd like to to set this play. And my brain just burst into like a thousand questions and ideas and like, oh, that make that could make so much sense here.
Um and so I yeah, I spoke with with Song, our director, about like what what does this mean for this black woman and and is Angelo going to be played by a white man and is that the is that the idea? And um, so that got me really excited because unfortunately, again, we we are history is repeating itself. And one could even say the history is going backwards. You know, there the civil rights bill is is you know being pulled apart right now.
So it's like well, I I kind of under I already understand. You know, I didn't grow up in the in the 50s and sixties, but I understand what it meant and what the rights that it provided for me, and that's just one bit of that uh civil rights, but um that's what I was excited about of like telling a telling a truth that we like to shy away from because it's uncomfortable to talk about. Um and it also it also made me think about uh Lupita and Harvey Weinstein and that that issue because when that when she was bold and confident enough to say, you know, he came on to me and it was inappropriate that people were like, that would never happen to you.
You think he's into you? No, and and it just like I said, that this is this is like one of the thousand things that just flooded my mind. And I love being overwhelmed by um by idea and by story and by where have I seen this?
Why is this why does this seem reminiscent of something I know or something I felt? Um so that's why I was I was super excited uh about the show and also because um, you know, I I this cast, there's only one person that I've well, two people that I've worked with. But these are it's filled with people who I haven't worked with who I've been dying to work with. Um Holly Twiford, um Ahmad Jonathan, Nathan Lee. I mean, just I it I couldn't name everybody, but uh people who I haven't I haven't worked with that I've been dying to get in a room with.
Rob Lee: That's great. It's great to um be able to just kind of be in that space, being being with folks that's like I admire you from afar now have the opportunity to like do this with you. It's like, oh, we're going to hit the hit right now and sort of you know, these scenes and it's like, oh, you alright, kind of kinda stepped on me a little bit in rehearsal. What are we doing? You know.
Um so that's that's that's that's pretty dope. and um I got a few more questions that I want to go over um did this this next piece um is at it at what point because they people talk about transformations of really embodying a character so at what point does Renea become Isabella like it's like okay it's in my head I got it I'm there
Renea S. Brown: that's a good question um I hope I don't freak you out with the answer so I mean uh before before I even start rehearsal I've already started text work I I am gonna be spending at least two weeks going through yes scanning but also looking up every single word and filling filling out my own script uh in in the way that I like to for things to make sense to me um I'm gonna be reading different different versions of measure for measure different published versions of it uh from the folder to the art into the riverside uh the the uh Pelican I I need to m make this 360 understanding to where it is like just off the off the back of my head I know exactly where I am in the world of the play um and so I I spend a good amount of time doing text work and because of that it's easy for the lines to just come into my head um so the more I can do the text work and the analytical stuff that critical thinking the more I can do that in advance and the more freedom I have to play in rehearsal um so I I've I've done that and uh and I and I just work I just imagine and create things uh in the room and then by the time we get to uh tech that's when I start there is a a greater responsibility I have to being a storyteller I believe I come from a a long line of storytellers of grios and that there were things that they wanted to say that they couldn't or maybe later in uh in another generation they were able to say what they wanted but they didn't have a right to be on stage or there there was just no greater platform and I have a responsibility to them and to people who are watching to say the things that they weren't able to say so whatever it sounds ooh wooy but I I do ask my ancestors and I ask God please come through me and and say what it is you need to say get off of your chest what it is you need to get off because I know that in my family that is living and my family that is that is no longer alive uh on earth have gone through what has happened in this play um especially with us setting it in the Jim Carl South so I'm but a vessel uh for them to come through and so that is the I I believe that's truly when I become Isabella is that there are some things where uh I there are moments where I know on stage like Renea is present Renea's always present but she just has like a little seat up here and about 80% of my head isabella um but within that Isabella that's those are my ancestors that's my ancestor's blood coming through me speaking through me and there are times where I may say uh a line in a way that I've never heard Rania's never heard and it's like oh that makes sense to me I I I'm why am I just now hearing that now um and it's because I'm not I don't want to sound crazy but like I'm not in control of it. I can't try to make it perfect or anything. It's just about getting getting their truth out because someone watching will say oh my gosh that reminds me of my Grammy oh my God I know what that feels like you know so um it's not about it's not about me it's about them it is about my my lineage uh this responsibility that I have that's I I believe that is what makes me you know join a kid fuse with a with a character if that
Rob Lee: makes it makes all of the sense look I I'm a weirdo so you you
Renea S. Brown: weren't even saying anything I was just like look at your listeners are
Rob Lee: too I was like I'm picking up what you're putting down sis keep going keep going I'm a conduit I'm a vessel, which is like, uh, here you go. You know, it's part of me up here, but the rest of it is the character, like that makes sense to me.
Yeah. And and and thank you for for sharing that. Um, it's it's really good to get into the mind of a person and how what they're considering, whether the choices that they're making when they're performing, when they're thinking about performing the intention I don't like the word intentionality, but the intentionality of what one is doing. Um it's just really important to get that perspective. Um, so thank you. And let's see. I got two last real questions.
Here's the here's Houston's next to last one. You were touching on lines a moment ago, and I gotta ask, do you have a favorite line? And if you could, could you share with your favorite line from the play?
Renea S. Brown: Ooh. Yes, I have I have a lot of favorite lines. So but um one of them I say uh it's a monosyllabic line. Monosyllabic, if you don't know, means um monosyllabic line means every word in that line is one syllable. And my favorite line is, oh, I will to him and pluck out his eyes. And I love that line because you know, Isabella is um because she is a nun, we automatically see her as closer to God and and could assume that she is holier than thou, but throughout this show, throughout this journey, we see her show more and more of her human side. Um that everybody is not perfect.
Even this woman, this nun is calling to pluck out to threatening to pluck out this man's eyes. Um yeah, that's that's a beautiful a beautiful line. And also something that Duke says, he says, I have seen corruption boil and bubble till it o'errun the stew.
And you have to come to the play to hear it hear the way Nathan says it, but um but yeah, I just it paints such a vivid image in my head about the uh almost like uh like what I imagine Babylon to have been like, just corruption just over boiling this pot, overrunning this pot. Yeah.
Rob Lee: It's good. And and this is the last question which ties into it because you were touching on coming to see it, coming to see it. So this play has been adapted, film, radio, musical, obviously multiple stage adaptations. So why is Folger Theater Stage the best place to experience it? oh How boy.
Renea S. Brown: Um you know what's funny is I I did not talk to uh Colleen or Folger about how political can I am I allowed to be on. But there is something incredible really about doing any Shakespeare piece, you know, within walking distance of the Capitol. Um in DC, I mean, you are just surrounded by politics, politicians, people who work on the hill, you know, Capitol Hill.
You are surrounded by it. And I think it's incredible that people um oh, thank you. I I think it is um incredible that regular people like myself, you know, I have I I have never served on the Senate.
I don't plan on it. Um but I vote and I pay taxes, and that's the way that my voice is heard, but sometimes I don't think, you know, I wish I I wish I was able to go down to the floor and and give my my ten minute spiel on why I think they should fund the arts, the government should be funding us. You know, I'd love to do that, but I I don't have that. Uh maybe I don't have that power, or I I'm an unaware of that power I have.
But that the folder is right in line and is right in the heart of where all this is happening, so that you do have a platform. You literally have a stage. Um so it's this this speaker that uh emits the sound of the people. Um that's what I've I why I believe is it's perfect that it's happening at the Folger. And also the Folger space is beautiful. Um if you've never been to the Folger, there is a unicorn on the ceiling of the theater. That's really that's really cool.
Yes, it's you know, great work that we do, but the unicorn, really wanna get that. Um and and also, I mean, there's so much history at the at the Folger in in what it used to be and what it is now. Now there are exhibitions that you can visit.
You know, you can not only can you see theater there but also um the consorts, uh, you know, concerts that you can hear, uh classical music with classical instruments, um, poetry, um, and the library itself which holds a lot of history. And something that is that is coming up uh and and you can cut this if Colleen says actually can't talk about that. But there's an exhibition coming up to hear her speak about black women and and Shakespeare and um so for this play to be happening at the same time that Measure for Measure uh will be uh running is very important to me too. So uh that's yeah I hope I answered the question. You um and just while we're here if I don't forget you can see measure for measure at the Folger Theater from September twenty second through November first.
Tickets start at twenty dollars um and I will even say the first person who's listening from this podcast if you mention this podcast first recognition's license in my DMs I will uh give you a pair of my tickets for free.
Rob Lee: That's amazing. And thank you. That's uh it's really dope and uh I'm I'm looking for it. I I love the um I love the Folger. I'm just looking forward to it and looking forward to see you do your thing um and all of the um great performers, the production, just everything I'm looking forward to it and um one of my favorite places to go to a DC so I'm keeping it a book. Nice. So we have two pieces of business as we you know kind of close out here in this last portion. Uh so we got rapid fire and then we have fate advice. All right. So rapid fire, you know, sort of you almost want to do that monosyllabic thing you were talking about a second ago yeah yeah.
Renea S. Brown: So here's the first one. Um because you know I I modified this one because you said something and I'm gonna I'm gonna hold you on it. Uh Shakespearean character you want to play for the first time that you haven't played yet.
Renea S. Brown: Aaron the Moore in Titus Andronic is just right there.
Rob Lee: Just right there. So yeah like it wasn't much thinking I thought you were gonna process for a second it's like no here it's right here top of head Yeah. um do you have a favorite pre or post performance meal this is so embarrassing.
Renea S. Brown: McDonald's on the menu what's on the it's like what's in the bag.
Renea S. Brown: Oh a meticula cheese, a large fry and a medium coke.
Rob Lee: I I I like this.
Renea S. Brown: I know I'm s I'm so sorry to people listening going, no I know I know but it's it hit so hard.
Rob Lee: I I judge two things. I judge people's fast food order and I judge that coffee order. Like you know there's some places just like what are you having? You sure but uh that's that's solid. I like how the how specific it was it's like it's gotta have cheese in that chicken just so you know cheese always.
Renea S. Brown: Alright so here's the last little portion as we close on these final moments. Um sage advice you know sort of um just one more time for um why does measure for measure story you know like the shared in real time right now with real people centuries after it was written as we kind of talked about a bit earlier why does it still matter in a sort of screen driven world we were kind of playing with this a bit earlier of get off your screen watch people on stage doing the real thing. Why does that and I'm really centering around sort of live performance why does that matter in a screen driven world
Renea S. Brown: we had a our cultural consultant Madoufe um she came in and spoke with us about um she has a brilliant mind talking about different places in the US during the 1950s from the north and southeast with all of it. And she said something that really struck me. She said you were not waiting for the NAACP to step in.
You weren't waiting for someone to come and save you you were working and I think that in a screen filled world that we just have access to whatever we would like we would like to watch. We don't want to watch what we want what we don't want and there is something about demanding change um demanding to be heard um putting putting someone in power on trial and saying you were wrong. And for people to agree and to listen to that, you know, it's it's one thing uh it's one thing to say it, to text it in a comment. It's one thing to watch a video, but when you are in a courtroom, hearing someone who's who's uh a family, they've lost a loved one, they are demanding justice.
Harm has been caused to them. It in it awakens something else in you that you can't that you can only get in person. And so I I hope that people who come to see measure for measure will feel invigorated to tell truth, um, to witness truth, uh, and and to um remember that we are all people who fall, and that we are all worth uh redeeming, we are all worth forgiveness if we believe that we are worthy of it ourselves.
Rob Lee: That is a great way for us to close. Thank you for that. And um another opportunity to shamelessly plug, really. That's sort of where we close out on um your social and just that that ask again for folks to come check out the um play.
Renea S. Brown: Yes. So um my name again, my name is Renee Brown. Uh you can find me on Instagram and TikTok. My handle is at the real dark lady, Shakespeare reference. Um, and uh and on Facebook as Renea Brown. Um I'm also um on Instagram uh at Imminent Theater Company. Uh I am a founder and company member, uh one of three with uh Robody and Yao Dope, who are other fantastic actors in the city. Um Eminent Theater Company is a black-led organization where we will be doing all kinds of work. Uh and we have an ensemble, a resident ensemble of actors and uh collaborators. Um and so uh please check us out there, eminent company, eminent theater company on uh Instagram and also imminent tc dot org.
Rob Lee: Yeah, and um thank you. That's that's great. I I definitely will be following myself and I urge listeners to follow support and just one more time for measure for measure, let the folks know.
Renea S. Brown: Yes, measure for measure, uh directed by Solomani24 will be at the Folger Theater from September 22nd through November 1st. Come check us out.
Rob Lee: And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Renia Brown for coming on to the Truth in this art and sharing a bit of her background, insights, story, and getting us up to speed and ready for measure for measure.
And for Renita, I am Rob Lee, fan of their art, culture, and community. In and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it.
