Welcome back to the Truth in His Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you so much for joining me for my conversations that matter, conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. And I am thrilled to welcome back my next guest. He is a designer and a creative director of his own headwear brand.
Rob Lee:We first talked back in 2020, and I'm excited to catch up with him about what he's been working on since. His journey started back in 2010 with his brand Creative King, and he's been on a fascinating journey and evolution ever since. Please welcome Jerrill Sankey. Alright. So, welcome back to the program.
Rob Lee:See, I'm I'm classy now. I don't call it a podcast. I call it a program. It takes it to a to another level. Nice.
Rob Lee:But it's it's been a little while. We were we were chatting a few, you know, a few moments ago before, you know, know, we got on, on the mic's live that we first chatted back in in 2020. That's the first time that we we chatted, and I feel like, right, I feel like I've worn my creative king jacket much more, you know, in the in the in the last 5 years than we've actually seen each other. You're a very mysterious man. You're you're hard to catch up with.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. Bro. Yeah. I'm all yeah. All over the place, dude.
Jerrill Sankey:All over the place hiding in my my lair.
Rob Lee:So for for those who might be hearing for you hearing from you for the first time, and I also recommend that they go back and listen to your first interview, could you give them a refresher, reintroduce yourself, and tell them about what you're working on these days?
Jerrill Sankey:Alright. So I'm Jarell Sankey. I'm known formally for my old brand, Creative King Headwear. Now I transitioned over to my namesake, Jerrill Sankey Headwear. And I've just been still doing my thing, working with up and coming brands, and just all over the place doing collection after collection, coming up with different projects, different, inspirations to make different, like, collections of things, man.
Jerrill Sankey:Just keeping it steady and just just trying to find my way to my next thing.
Rob Lee:I dig it. And, you know, I remember one of the things from our our previous conversation that stuck out. You were you were real so he's like, man, I make hats, man. I'm a hat maker. And I was just like,
Jerrill Sankey:oh. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:And then there there it's a lot of hat maker. It doesn't stop, man. All day, every day, man.
Rob Lee:So so making making hats and, you know, and we're gonna talk about that a little bit more. But I'm curious. Could you tell us about, like, your tastes, like, creatively and sort of, like, you know, where some of that inspiration comes from? And how did you cultivate, like, your taste? Like, as you can see, you know, this is you know, visually, I'm wearing a Carhartt hat and a, you know, dusty black t shirt or what have you.
Rob Lee:This is utilitarian where it's comfortable for me. Right. But most of that aligns with with my taste, and I'm I'm comfy, Rob. You know? I'm I'm 40 now.
Rob Lee:And, you know, things of that nature. So for you, when it comes to cultivating your taste as it in as it as it's into what you're making or what you're into, how did you come about that? Like Well,
Jerrill Sankey:my taste I'm sorry. I'm gonna cut you off.
Jerrill Sankey:Go
Jerrill Sankey:ahead. My taste acquires from my childhood. Okay. You know what I mean? Preferably from the ages of well, hell.
Jerrill Sankey:From the ages of, like, 9 to I don't know, man. 9 to, like, 17, 9 to 16, like, the nineties. I mean, just nineties kid, man. And then you see a lot of that in my work, Like, from the music I pick, all in my Instagram, like, there's certain hats that I make. I always try to find a song that matches it, and it's always some hard, East Coast, like hip hop.
Jerrill Sankey:I mean, I'm a Southerner from Montgomery, Alabama. So I mean, like, I've just grew up I I just grew up in pop culture, man. Nineties kid, Ralph Lauren Polo, Tommy Hilfiger, like, Timberland boots. Like, I'm a sneakerhead. I've been living up in sneakers since I was, like, 9 or 8 years old, man.
Jerrill Sankey:It started for me in, like, 93. Like, so and then I it's still to this day. I'm 40 going on I'm 40 going on, man. 16 again, man. Like, this is just always, man.
Jerrill Sankey:That's always my drive.
Rob Lee:No. That's that's dope. It it reminds me of, like, it reminds me of this thing. Like, I like I like wrestling. Right?
Rob Lee:And Right. I remember, Eddie Kingston was like, man, I'm perpetually in 1996. He's like, that's my fashion sense. And I was like, this is amazing.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah, man. My year is 1998, man. If it was me, man, I'm just in a a loop. I'm just in a loop, man. Hell, put it like this.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm so nostalgic. I still I go on YouTube and I look up MTV news segments Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just to see the commercials.
Jerrill Sankey:You know what I mean? Just to see the commercials that they used to play. Like, when they used to like, MTV was really big on playing, like, people's, like when people's coming out with an album, it was so many record commercials. You don't even see that anymore. You don't see people advertising, like, records, their albums like that.
Jerrill Sankey:I mean, well, we everybody watches what they wanna watch these days anyway. We don't really watch television, so we're always on YouTube or Instagram. So, you know what I mean? Like, you don't release I'll I'll release like, I miss that type of stuff. Like, I oh, no.
Jerrill Sankey:I I I guess the artist has more leeway to do what they want these days, but part of me missed the old days. I missed when it was more mysterious.
Rob Lee:Yeah. There you know, I feel like there's a a shift, and I find that, you know, I have those conversations with with folks in our our age group where it's just like, yeah, I'm looking back at this previous time because right now, a lot of stuff, while perhaps it's a great time to be an artist, it's a great time to create. The idea is there of being able to cast a wide net and reach so many people.
Jerrill Sankey:Right.
Rob Lee:Parentheses, right, in in quotes. But it's something about maybe it's a cocaine, but it's something about the spirit of stuff that was being made then and sort of the scene that was then. I I have a buddy. He and I just trade memes related to Miami Vice, you know, back and forth all day.
Jerrill Sankey:That's dope. I like that.
Rob Lee:And it and it's something about this, and it it it it's it's I'm curious about it where
Jerrill Sankey:Why Miami Vice, though?
Rob Lee:Just it's it's the fashion. It's the it's the fashion. It is the I love
Jerrill Sankey:the art deco. It's not so art decoy.
Jerrill Sankey:It's it's
Rob Lee:like the thing, the clip set. Right? You know, running down a whole in Miami Vice theme music.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Cold to Rome, maybe cold, you know, the whole thing.
Jerrill Sankey:Right. Right.
Rob Lee:So and and and I remember this is almost a segue to the second part of that question about cultivation and taste. Like, you know, so exposure to, like, pop culture, you touched on music and and I'm touching on Miami Vice. I remember as a kid, Miami Vice when that came on, that was like my dad show. I remember when that came on, that means cartoons was over for me. Now as an adult, I'm like, yo, these are my cartoons.
Rob Lee:Look how colorful they are.
Jerrill Sankey:Right. Right.
Rob Lee:Is there an example that comes to mind that, like, definitely shows up in, like, a piece or a series of work that's, like, yeah, I made this particular hat because this character from this show wore it. And I was just like, I'll be damned if I'm not gonna make that.
Jerrill Sankey:My my visions always go back to, like, the magazines used to flip through. I don't know. Like, back in the day, you you'd probably go to you'd be stuck in the beauty salon with your mom or something because you couldn't, like, go to your cousin's house. You've been there all day. And what they have?
Jerrill Sankey:Magazines. Yeah. So you'll start going through magazines. You'll see Ralph Lauren Polo ads. You'll see, like that was the first time I ever seen, like, when the with the the Polo sport campaign.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, you see Tyson Beckford, you're like, oh, wow. They got, like, black dude, like, wearing polo. You never really see that. Like, you know what I'm saying? For me, it was a culture shock seeing that back when I was a kid.
Jerrill Sankey:So it's like a lot of things that I I I I get my I I remember my visual visuals from was either a show that I was watching, like, I was MTV Kids. That or, like, looking going through magazines, man, like, and stuff like that. So I don't know if that answered the question, but
Rob Lee:No. No. It's it's media. And, you know, I I remember and and I don't know if you still go by because this it's been a rebrand, you know, with the, what is it, Nostalgia Anthropology?
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. Nostalgia Anthropology. It's like a mood board page now.
Rob Lee:Yeah. But I but I think it's something in there. Like, it it captures a time, and I think we all look for that. And I'm sure that there's a word that's in another language that escapes me. I mean, nostalgia is is obviously the essence of it, but it's just like that longing for it because it felt I don't know.
Rob Lee:It felt like solid. You know? Right.
Jerrill Sankey:So I'm sorry. I would like to tell you to, like, to touch in on that more. Yeah. I made the I turned it into a nostalgic anthropology because the everything that I'm into that's why I didn't have on on that page. I just had the Jarell Sankey.
Jerrill Sankey:So when you on my regular on my main page, which is Jarell Sankey, you don't see nostalgic anthropology. So nostalgic anthropology was is the introduction for people who find my hats that from that route. Well, so so it has a lot of, like, older people on it, but, like, now it has a lot of new people that didn't know Creative King. So when they go in there now, they see the things I'm into, but they see a little sprinkle of the hats. So now when they, like, click on the Jarrell Sankey, they go over to the page.
Jerrill Sankey:And all my everything that and you'll see it from, like I said, the music and all that. They'll see how it all intertwines. So that's like a introduction for the faces who really don't know who I am.
Rob Lee:No. That's that's a good point. That's a good point. And, you know, I I like that, and then I'm a move into this next question. But I I like that it's it's a vision.
Rob Lee:Not only are you you making things and and operating in a way that captures, like, what you're into and capture your sensibility, your taste, and so on, but also, like, your tapes show up in a different way as you touched on the the sort of music that you're choosing or how you wanna present something. And I find, like, folks that have that mindset of sort of I wanted to look like this. I wanted to to make this feeling. I wanted to have all of these different things in there versus I make this, I'm moving on to the next thing. And I find that sometimes when we don't spend that time and care to think out of what we're doing in multiple dimensions, I think that's where we kinda fall a little short.
Rob Lee:But I think when we have something that hits various places or have you, you might not get a person that's gonna buy a hat or inquire about a hat, but they're like, oh, oh, this this dude gets it. Now what does he make? And they hook you get you they they get hooked that way as to you've created a vibe and a mood, and then this happens to be a part of that vibe and mood.
Jerrill Sankey:Right. So, like, but it's crazy because they then they just see that it's just always hats. I mean, because I don't know. I just I don't know, man. I I make other things, but I just rather keep it that way.
Jerrill Sankey:And, like and and my and another thing with, like, how I pick music and stuff, it all comes from the energy of the hat. Like, well, like I said, whatever it is and, like, whatever the mood that I think it presents. Like, yeah. I mean, yeah. That's just that's what I'm really trying to do when I'm when I'm doing that.
Jerrill Sankey:It's just show like, just give you a open look to where my mind was at when I made that piece.
Rob Lee:It it's it's carrying attention, and I think just people aren't given enough credit for that. It it sets a certain vibe, and it pops a lot. I like when people have really good music taste, which you do. And when I go back and I look at it, I was like, yo, suddenly my Spotify now is just like, I'm just in this beast coast lane right now, and I'm just like, yo.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, why do I have trouble
Rob Lee:for some reason? Like, I'm supposed to be going to sleep. What am I what do I be doing?
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. I had a couple people, man. I because I so every now and then, I put some drum and bass, like, some, like, jungle music or something like that, like, DK drum and bass, and people hit me up and they're like, man, what's that one song you were playing? And I put them on to it, like, bro, thank you so much for putting me on. It's a whole another group, whole another thing that I get to explore.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm like, damn, that's dope. So it also opens people up too to different things, man. Like so I think that's really cool.
Rob Lee:Oh, yeah. So I wanna move into this. This is this is a little on a more controversial side, but I'm curious about it. There's there's often a a conversation around art not being considered craft. And while others argue, it definitely is.
Rob Lee:There's definitely some overlap. Where do you look at, you know, craft as in the the the making of something? Like, it's in what you do where, you know, where does that intersect with art? We were touching on that a little bit before we got started, but talk a bit about, like, art and craft and, like, where you feel, like, you said or how you feel about that conversation about them not always being in in unison and being aligned together.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm not gonna lie. I I was always a person, like, as as society will paint things, we always get caught up in the into the different groups of things. So craft was always its thing and art was always its thing. And as I started doing the craft that I do for so long, I have people call me an artist. And I and I used to think that was weird to call me an artist because I thought I was like, artist, I don't know.
Jerrill Sankey:I don't really consider myself an artist. I just make some. But then I had to, like, after I was I kept doing it all all along. Now I really see the art in it.
Jerrill Sankey:Know what
Jerrill Sankey:I mean? Because the it because turning something that's like, turning something into something 3 d, like, to make something, that's it's an art today or how you would do that. Yep. You know what I mean? So so now I I had to take a step back and, like, really look at it, engage it, and it is art.
Jerrill Sankey:You know what I mean? Like, I and I I treat I treat the fabrics that I use like paint.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. You know
Jerrill Sankey:what I mean? Like, especially, like, sculpting in this to making it something. Like, that always and and and another thing too that not to, like, get off point. Art and craft all starts with a vision. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. You know what I mean? So there's really there's really no separating the 2.
Jerrill Sankey:You know
Jerrill Sankey:what I mean? They both they both really clash and they both come together as one, to be honest.
Rob Lee:And I and I and I think that's like and that's why I said there is a a level of controversy with that question because, yeah, I I think you're you're right. And I think that there is, sometimes a sensibility as to what is the inclination, what is the intent here. There are some people who are, you know, perhaps classified as artists because they do something that that fits in that realm, that, they may be a sculptor. They may be a visual artist. Maybe a painter or something like that, but it's definitely with the sensibility around commerce.
Rob Lee:And I look at that slightly different. I'm not saying that artists shouldn't make money. They should. And they should be paid, you know, all the money. They they give the seasoning to making life worth living.
Rob Lee:Right? Right. I find that when that's the focal point, I I I I don't like it as much. I don't I don't know why it just it it feels different. And then I find that a lot of times over the, let's say, last 5 to 6 years, we've used words like creative and, you know, and creative entrepreneur and all of these other things to try to take away, you know, the the title of artist.
Rob Lee:And what I was hearing from you is, like, you're not just frivolously calling yourself an artist. There is you know, it's like you you almost didn't wanna adopt it. There is a Right. Just impression it.
Jerrill Sankey:It was the people. The people, like, stamped it like that. You know what I mean? So it's I I guess, to be honest, it's really it's really from how I how people's, how the the audience sees you. I mean, it get could be part of it.
Jerrill Sankey:Like but like I said, III didn't think of myself as an artist. But then, like I said, I started noticing as I'm just doing this craft, I started doing it certain ways, and then I started finding my own niche. When I started doing things like using reflective a lot, making making my own, like, look that people will see and they'd be like, oh, I know a guy that does that. You know, does it that way. Like, when I started doing it that way, then I understood that, you know what?
Jerrill Sankey:This is art. Because, like, in in then I started calling things I started calling them art pieces. I mean, because, really, everything is 1 on 1. Most of the everything I do is 1 on 1 stuff. But I like, it got to a point to where I was crafting, turning things into a hat, and then I got bored with that.
Jerrill Sankey:And then that's when that's when the real art steps in because you wanna you wanna start making it look like something that sets apart from all the other because then you start getting all the people to come and jump on the bandwagon and doing that said thing. Like, I was like when I first started making hats, it was like 4 4 of us, like, 5 of us that I know of in the country. Now it's like, you could turn it's so many pages of people that do hats that make hats now. You know what I mean? Which doesn't like, you go through the phase of, oh, man.
Jerrill Sankey:Damn. Somebody's gonna take my spot or something like that. And then it's like, no. You've been doing this. You're gonna be doing this.
Jerrill Sankey:Because I'm true to this. Like, you know what I mean? I don't just do it. I'm true to it because if I wasn't making money off of it, I still will be doing it.
Rob Lee:That's the that's the key thing. And you're talking to a podcaster here, so think about how many goofy we're telling stories and blah blah blah. You know
Jerrill Sankey:what I mean?
Rob Lee:So Like, you don't do them the way I do them. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:And I and I and I and I and I also I know I know my journey to to this point. I mean, before, like, I was making stuff that people didn't pay attention to. Like, I went through that hiatus of going through the through it being rough, having stuff on a website that nobody ever touched. You know what I mean? I know what it's like to see what the year of 2014, and the only thing you made was, like, $300 for that whole year to seeing, like, making $30,000 on the website in a year in on 1 year.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, that's to me, like but it's time. It comes with time.
Rob Lee:Yeah. You know
Jerrill Sankey:what I mean? So it's gonna all like, I I look at it like this. As long as I stay true to it, it's gonna stay true to me. Stope. It's gonna look out for me no matter what.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm gonna have my ups and my downs, but that craft is gonna always be with me, and it's gonna look out for me just like I wanna indulge in it.
Rob Lee:Yeah. You know
Jerrill Sankey:what I mean?
Rob Lee:I feel I feel the same way in in in doing this. Like, you know, I've been a podcaster since 2009 and been doing this since 2019. So I was already 10 years in before I even started this as a as a series and as an idea. And sometimes you get 5 downloads. Sometimes you get 5,000 downloads.
Rob Lee:And let's let's be real, not 5 but sometimes you get a lot more downloads. And, you know, sometimes you get really good feedback and sometimes you you don't. And, you know, I I stick with it and I have this, you know, we're all human. Sometimes your ego gets hit a little bit, but I I do look at it like, okay. No.
Rob Lee:I got it. I'm gonna keep doing this and this feels this feels like the right thing and it keeps me curious and it keeps me interested and I try to get better at it and see all of the, you know, the illegitimates out there, but see all the sort of, like, other people doing their stuff and happy that they're they're doing it, but also wanting to do my own thing. And that's what goes into to doing this. Like, you know, this season and going back out and reaching out to folks that I've interviewed before and, like, yo, you wanna come back on? Let's catch up and do it in this this scope.
Rob Lee:It feels really cool. And this is purely an idea. It's aligned with me creatively trying to answer a question like what are people doing? How do they feel supported? Where are they at in their careers?
Rob Lee:So I'm not trying to continually just do the same thing. You know? It's just like there's an archive there. There's, you know, interviews there is still me, still my approach to it, but I'm trying to creatively just keep pushing the needle and stretching those boundaries like an artist would do.
Jerrill Sankey:Right. Exactly. To make the refresher and make it better for you again. You know what I mean? Like and trust me, I know how that is.
Jerrill Sankey:You know what I mean? It's always when you when things get, like, calm down and you're like, oh, damn. Nah. It's like I gotta get these gears working. Gotta figure out how I'm gonna, like, keep it keep it churning.
Jerrill Sankey:But, hey, man. Like I said, you stay true to this. It's gonna stay true to you. It's a part of you now. You know what I mean?
Jerrill Sankey:So it's like it's it's really no no stopping.
Rob Lee:I mean, sometimes I get misidentified. It's like, yo, there's truth in this odd. I was like, my my name is Rob. You could you just use the the name. That that'd be cool.
Rob Lee:Alright. Cool. Truth in this odd. That's
Jerrill Sankey:that's yeah. You know? So I
Rob Lee:wanna move to this one. I got a few, like, questions in this area. I think the second question here you're gonna like. Who are your design idols? Like, they are people that I look at for inspiration.
Rob Lee:I'll look at their interviews just to get a sense of, alright, what kind of question do they ask? How do they go about asking questions? Do they talk too much? I talk too much. You know, how do they go about doing the thing that they do?
Rob Lee:And I think it helped shape my perspective on interviews, on how to structure a podcast, and so on and so forth. For you, who's left a an indelible mark on you? Like, from a design standpoint, from a fashion standpoint, is there an artist? Is there a particular magazine as you were touching on earlier?
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. The the first time the the the my first ever love of of an icon for me was Vivienne Westwood.
Rob Lee:Okay.
Jerrill Sankey:Like I said, I was an MTV kid. So you remember, like, MTV used to have those rock the runways. I remember the first one they ever did, like, this is, like, the early nineties. It was it had Vivienne Westwood. And, like, I I've I've heard that name because I used to look in Vogue magazines and stuff.
Jerrill Sankey:Like I said, hanging out, you'll be in put your mom in the beauty salon. They have, like, all those magazines, so going through that stuff. You know? But, like, yeah, that she was one of the first people that I paid attention to. I love the way that she did denim.
Jerrill Sankey:She had she she presented a denim collection. Like, her stuff is, like, very, like, post punk Yeah. And, like, that late seventies, British, like, punk vibe. Like, stuff is really dope, man. Like, that that that was one of the first people that I ever sought eyes on to as an icon in fashion.
Rob Lee:That's tight. I love it. Yeah. I love the MTV, connection, dude. It it keeps Yeah, man.
Jerrill Sankey:Love it. Like, no. I'm so like, as a kid, man, you just I was so, like, I wanted to, like, be in the moment. Like, I wanted to see because you'd be well, you'll see, like, the spring breaks and stuff you're watching and all that. I used to watch all that stuff, man.
Jerrill Sankey:And, like, all the shows and stuff. Like, I don't know. I was just epiphany of the nineties, man, as a kid.
Rob Lee:We we should bring back, you know, sort of, like, jock jams or what have you, but, like
Jerrill Sankey:Yo. Oh, man. Like, MTV Sports?
Rob Lee:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:Man. Like, some
Rob Lee:of the cringe dancing from, like, the spring break tears was like, yo. You a
Jerrill Sankey:Downtown Julie Brown.
Rob Lee:It's done. Yes. Yes. I remember this really obscure show. This will show you how how deep I've been to the trenches here.
Rob Lee:There was a cartoon that was on very briefly, called Station 0. That was the thing I remember watching on MTV. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:I remember Station 0.
Rob Lee:Okay. Okay. You're in the trenches. We we we're we're there. We're there.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah, man. I remember that. I remember, like, what? Love Live. Love Love Live.
Jerrill Sankey:What was it? That that show with the Cupid. They had a show that was, like, I wanna say Carmen Electra. Was it a I think it was
Rob Lee:single out.
Jerrill Sankey:Single out. Yeah. Single out. Yeah. Yeah, man.
Jerrill Sankey:Single out.
Rob Lee:I was gonna look at that car.
Jerrill Sankey:Jimmy McCarthy? Jenny McCartney, man. I had the biggest crush on Jenny McCarthy back then.
Rob Lee:I mean, we we we we're there. We're there.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah, man. Like, yeah, single that was dope.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. I
Rob Lee:mean, look.
Rob Lee:I'm just saying, like, let's just go to the playbook. You know what
Jerrill Sankey:I mean?
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah, bro.
Rob Lee:Bring each one of these to both of them.
Jerrill Sankey:I mean, you can't forget Beavis and Butthead. You can't forget, like, all that stuff. Like, late 90s when they came out with Daria, that was cool cartoon.
Rob Lee:Max. Like, yo, can I get some h g h in a purple leotard? I could just walk around like the Max. If we can make that happen, I'm all for it. So I got I got this question.
Rob Lee:This is the second part of this question. And then this is where it gets real nerd and real deep. I think of, Yoji Yamamoto, the the Japanese fashion designer.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah.
Rob Lee:He once said that creating is about making life and resisting mediocrity, describing it as, like, life's work, like, creating as life's work. How does that perspective perhaps, like, influence you in your art?
Jerrill Sankey:This is the perspective of life's work?
Rob Lee:Yeah. Like, like, making creating is, like, making life. And it's Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:I mean, creating for me, is very important to me. It makes me oh, it makes me feel like I have a purpose. Like, just just to know that I can make something that can make somebody so pumped and be hyped that when they see it or when they when they get it and they message me and they'd be like, dude, man, this hat's so dope. And I always sit back and all, like, like, damn. Like, what was shit?
Jerrill Sankey:Like, what makes what makes this move people? Like, make these people so happy about something I made this act. Like, I think it's so not not trying to downplay what I do. It's just like it really has me in awe when when I when I make somebody else feel like that over an object that I I may come to life from a vision that I had. And it was like, oh, man.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm a make this. They gonna love this. Like so that's what it does for me. It makes me feel like I have a purpose, and it makes me feel not only important, it makes me feel very accomplished.
Rob Lee:Well, now that's it's a it's a good thing. It's a good thing because these these sort of next two questions definitely are good follow ups to it. This first one goes about the importance of of chasing a vision as an artist, and I'll give you this context. So, like, you know, I had this vision, like, for doing this particular season. I could have just said, look, I'm gonna do a 100 interviews and interviewing people that I haven't talked to before and so on, and I'm gonna do it this way, but I'm really curating and driving at a particular point in in this season.
Rob Lee:And the season is supposed to be bigger than what it's gonna be. So I had to kinda table part of my vision. So for you, how important is it to to chase a vision? And can you speak on like, hey, I got this grandiose idea and you saw it all the way, you know, to its fruition? And maybe another time where, you know, it's like, alright, I gotta make some concessions here.
Rob Lee:I can't really see this vision as fully right now due to resources, due to time, or whatever the thing might be.
Jerrill Sankey:Oh, man. That's just like that's a prime example of that. I had a vision because I had this, Earth Day toad. 19 oh, you can't even see it. I can't show it.
Jerrill Sankey:I had a 1990 Earth Day tote. And I was like, man, I wanna make some out of that. It's gotta be cool. My first thought was, oh, shit. Captain Planet.
Jerrill Sankey:So I started thinking about Captain Planet. I was like, oh, man. What else can I do to this side? But it's just a plain tote with green lettering, picture of plain tote green lettering. It says Earth Day as the a grid of the Earth, and it says 1990.
Jerrill Sankey:And I'm just like, man, you know, it look cool. What if I can find some fabric that had, like, cans on it? What's the chances of finding fabric that had cans on it? 3 days later, I'm in the Goodwill and I find a pair of Wrangler khaki shorts with printed cans all over, like beer cans. And I'm like, oh, man, this is the this is what I thought about for that hat.
Jerrill Sankey:Now I could go and I could put this together. Then I'm like, oh, man. What else I can do? This is a hat. I'm thinking about recycling.
Jerrill Sankey:Oh, I have some I have some 100% recyclable Dyneema. So I'm gonna add some Dyneema to it which is just plastic made out of different a bunch of fibers to make a fabric. So I'm adding that to it. And then I have the Earth Day. You got the 1990 on the brim.
Jerrill Sankey:And then you're gonna have the cans on the side. You got the recycled plastic on top. There you go. You have a whole hat that was just inspired by me thinking about Captain Planet. So that's how that plays out, man.
Jerrill Sankey:It's and I love how that happens. I love when it happens like that. Like, my visions come like that. It's like it's like I can either be watching something or it's just preparing 2 pieces of fabric together to have, I don't know, similar letters or similar wording and to bring bring up one thing. It's always like a bright idea moment, like, when I when I give my thoughts, man.
Jerrill Sankey:It's it's pretty cool.
Rob Lee:And and it's for you to to reason through. That's the thing. Like, you know, like, I always have a notepad on me. In fact, I wanna say it was maybe 2 weeks ago. I woke up from, like, a really weird nightmare, and I reached to all my nightstand.
Rob Lee:I was like, I know there's a notepad to pen here, like, because I had to write it down. It I was able to get something down. It looks crazy, but I was like, this is a good idea. This could be a short story. This could be this.
Rob Lee:It could be that. The brain doesn't turn off. And in other instances, again, having that notepad on me or having some writing instrument. I don't like putting it in the phone for some reason, but having the writing instrument, I don't know, it's just it keeps the full idea in there, not just like the sanitized version. So, if I'm walking, it's like, this is an interesting insight.
Rob Lee:I might hear something. I might have a thought that hits me. I'm like, I wonder what this person would have to say about this particular topic. What would their insight be? And I just write it down and it works itself into questions as as one of the questions I'm gonna have for you a little later is gonna come up as it literally that that thing.
Rob Lee:And and here's the the the sort of other follow-up question. You you touched on, you know, sort of an experience where you saw somebody wear your your your hat and they were, you know, just, you know, expressing, like, how it made them feel and sort of that experience. Could you take us back to maybe one of the first times you saw one of your pieces out there in the wild? Maybe it was one that someone, like, maybe got out of it, like a shop or something that you didn't sell directly, but it was like a surprise and you saw it out there in the wild. What was that experience like?
Jerrill Sankey:One thing I saw in the wild was I I I did this thing with, what was that brand called? Shit. I'm so sorry. It's on the tip of my tongue. It's a brand I did some stuff with, by Borre.
Jerrill Sankey:I did some stuff with by well, by Borre sent me, like, one of their packets. They send you a packet with a bunch of their fabrics. They it's all their fabrics are made from this big woven machine. But, one of the persons that was wearing my hat is somebody known. But I'm gonna go to the very first time I see somebody wearing, like, a creative king hat.
Jerrill Sankey:Sorry. I'm all over the place.
Rob Lee:Good.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, first time I ever see somebody wearing a hat, like, the first cool cool time I ever seen somebody wearing a hat was walking to my car in Hampton. And I was walking down the street on Chestnut, and I having the fads about his father. He gives me a head nod. He's with his kid. And I look up at his head, and he had one of my creator king lumberjack hats on, scrapper hats, and he's, like, walking.
Jerrill Sankey:And he had his hat on nice and snug. He had the he had the trapper rear flaps tied up to the top. That was so cool to see, man. I was just like I was just like, hey. How are you doing?
Jerrill Sankey:And I I I never say anything. I never be like, hey. I made that. I only done that one time, man. But I that I I love when that happens.
Jerrill Sankey:And, other times, like, somebody hit me. I was like, bro, I was in I was in a club in Connecticut. I see somebody wearing a creative p hat. And I ain't believe it, dude. Dude actually took a photo of it.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm like, what the hell, man? It's like, he was so and it's like a one on one hand. I'm like, yo. He's like, yeah. I know what creative team you have when I see one.
Jerrill Sankey:I'm like, yo, that's crazy. And, like, what? So I didn't Ben Barry, man. He had he had he had the hat on that I made out of my Borae materials. Somebody happened to give it to him, and he wore it.
Jerrill Sankey:He wore it hardcore, man, like, for, like, months. I thought that was cool.
Rob Lee:That's really cool.
Jerrill Sankey:But, yeah, man. Being and also being at Complex Con in LA, seeing somebody with one of my hats on, that was really dope.
Rob Lee:I mean, that's that was all really cool. I mean, you know, there's something about that feeling. It's like a it's it's a subtle validation marker. It's just like, alright, people.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah, man. Oh, another recent one was, I do luxury rap. I don't know if you're familiar with the luxury rap collaboration I do with Ethos De Quorum. We do a collaboration called Lux Luxury Wrap. We're about to do our 7th one.
Jerrill Sankey:It's where we make hats out of, luxury silks, like recycled luxury silks, like, with the Balmaines, the Guccis, like, all the crazy ones, like the old one. Old ones, we we do, and I'll we do a lot of watch brand ones, like the, what like the Rolex, bandanas. We do the Tudors, like, all those. Recently, Jonathan, he's a he's in a watch club. He he went to New York, and he was in the Tudor store.
Jerrill Sankey:And one of our Tudor silk hats was on display inside a case. I thought that was really cool. Some people have been reaching out by they've been not reaching out, but they'd be, like, a lot of stylists. And, like, people from brands, they buy the stuff and they use them for, like, exhibitions.
Rob Lee:Yes, man.
Jerrill Sankey:I thought that was really dope, man.
Rob Lee:I love that. I love that. That's that's really cool. The the closest thing that I can say is when someone hits me up and they're like, yeah, I bought one of your shirts. I'm like, oh, well, shit.
Rob Lee:You have you have me on your, you know, on your on your chest plate right now, so that's really cool. But, yeah, it's just something about being, you know, having your stuff acknowledged in a while whether it be something that you're making or there's been a few times where and I try to I put that mask on at a shysty I was describing before we got started. And I can't have the public see it. I'm a known figure now. But, you know, folks have mentioned, like, yo, you I heard this on this episode of Truth in His Heart.
Rob Lee:No. But I will say it was this one time where, you know, I have the Rob Lee cocktail at Forged. Right? It's an old fashioned. And I I remember I was there, and I just sat there one of my friends and, you know, the one of the waiters is like, you have your usual?
Rob Lee:And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Sure. And they always make it a running bid. And I I I jump in on a bit to now say that I'm contractually obligated to drink at least 1 Rob Lee when I go to Forged.
Rob Lee:So I'm at a table with my friend, and there's a table next to us, and they're like, ah, this Rob Lee is a little mid. It's just an
Rob Lee:old fashioned. And I'm like, oh, shit.
Rob Lee:It's like, you know, it could be better. And I was just like, it's a really good trade, guys. You should try another one.
Rob Lee:Oh, man.
Rob Lee:So so this is the sort of next to last question that I got for you. And and this is sort of like the real life feeling back to curtain a bit. You know? So recently, I I found myself feeling down about my work, about about this podcast. And in today's world, there's often this sort of, like, an unrelenting and underlying cycle of rejection, and the inner critic fuels it.
Rob Lee:You know? You'll feel like, oh, you're not good enough. That's why nobody's spying it or no one's, you know, trying to be a guest or no one takes you serious. Whatever the thing is. I was at, sophomore, you know, in Baltimore.
Rob Lee:I was getting my, getting my normal coffee. And I don't know if it was the caffeine or just a sudden sense of clarity, but I had this, like, conscious decision to shift my mindset just as, like, I'm a decide otherwise. I'm just gonna keep doing the thing that I do, the thing that gives me so much joy and that I that I enjoy. And, and I do my best, and I try to give myself some some more grace, you know, instead of feeling defeated. That was the decision.
Rob Lee:Let's shift your mindset. Have you had a moment like that where sort of maybe external factors, you know, made you feel less than and you you chose to just be defiant and do something different to just push forward?
Jerrill Sankey:Bro, I go through that every other year. Like, every other year, I get hit with I probably start gauging myself. I'd I'd do the dumb thing of going online and looking at other people's stuff and see what everybody else doing, not doing what you don't know what they had to do to get to it. But then it's like I just pull back, I stay off the Internet, and I get back to my grind, and I just stay focused. That's how I build my morale up, man.
Jerrill Sankey:I just, blunders on, man. Blunders on. I don't care about nothing. When I'm working like that, things go well. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:Things go well. I get I get the views I want. I get all that stuff. But when I'm worrying about it, I'm just, like, always, like, pointing at this person and how they're doing this. Like, nah, dude.
Jerrill Sankey:You do better when you don't even know what the fuck's going on. Sorry, the nerds. No. No. It's factual.
Rob Lee:It's so factual because you you see these other things and, like, you you really had a good point there because it always is this comparison thing or sort of that sort of lacking defeatist mindset, and it's just like you don't know what they did. You don't know what they may have given up to to get that, and I value, and I'm I would imagine the same for you, this this notion of I'm free to do whatever I want. I don't want no one.
Jerrill Sankey:Exactly. Don't answer to nobody and gotta deal with no extra egos. So what we're not gonna do is let our own ego get the best of us. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna put our damn boots on or whatever the fuck they wanna say. Like, we're gonna put our bootstraps on or whatever.
Jerrill Sankey:We're gonna march in, like, keep doing what we do like we always done it. Add a little bit more umph into it. Stop doubting. And just try to be much more creative as possible. And and and and add add a little bit more fuck it to it and just Absolutely.
Jerrill Sankey:Make it happen. Because you gotta do that sometimes, man. Like, like I said, every other year, I go through that whole little thing of, like, I'd be in a slump. And like I and, like, I was I'll never and this goes back to the real conversation. We was talking about reels earlier.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, being on reels, man. And I've never used to when I used to be on IG in the beginning, I never looked at anybody else's page, never scrolled on no reels, never did none of that. I was just in my own world. When you start moving away from that and then you start seeing, like like first is the comparisons. You start seeing other people's, like, say you probably see somebody else's podcast or they're doing this joint venture deal or I see somebody that doing this, thing with this brand and why didn't you do it with me?
Jerrill Sankey:I think my shit looks better than theirs. Like, you know what I'm saying? So it's like it goes like that. But then it's like, I'll I mean, you just step back and you're like, man, what are you doing, dude? Like, you're a grown ass man.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, boy, if you don't get back to work, you just keep doing your thing.
Rob Lee:If you don't put your Ben Burry Crocs on and get
Rob Lee:it together.
Jerrill Sankey:Exactly, man. Like, get out of here with all this. Stop all that. Like, just just keep just keep your plan like you were. And I thought about it the other day.
Jerrill Sankey:I was like, man, you know what? I'm happy that I just I sat back and just thought about how I used to be, and I wanna get back to where I used to be. So I'm gonna get off this Internet and stop looking at certain things and stop worrying about other people's brands and worrying about my own. Pour into my own.
Jerrill Sankey:You know what
Jerrill Sankey:I mean? Like, import into my craft. Because they they talk
Rob Lee:about the what is it? Comparison is like the thief of joy. So it's just like
Jerrill Sankey:Exactly.
Rob Lee:You know, if you're making it and you're you're enjoying it and whatever else happens, I always have this sensibility, and I call it riding the wave. Very Aquarius in this sensibility, but I call it riding the wave. And it's like, look. I have this belief that whatever it is, the community or the idea of the community, whatever it is, they got me. I just need to keep doing the thing that I'm doing.
Rob Lee:And for lack of better terms, the people who get it, they know I'm not for everybody, You know? And Exactly. That's just what it is.
Jerrill Sankey:I say the same thing, man. Like, hey. My my stuff my hats ain't for everybody. Like, some people rock with it. Some people wanna pay that.
Jerrill Sankey:Some people don't. Some people like design. Some people don't. I don't care. I'm here for the people who wanna be here for me.
Jerrill Sankey:So, doc
Rob Lee:Let me hit you with this last question, and this is in that bent of and and it it definitely ties to this, but it's in that bent around, like, advice but also sort of, like, insight. And and so lastly, could you describe, like, the courage needed to make work and to to put it out there? Because, you know, I talk to podcasters. I, you know, I did, like, a year of the podcast education thing. Right?
Rob Lee:Teaching young develop developing podcasters in in the college atmosphere and in the high school atmosphere and, you know, presenting to them, like, this idea of, like, you gotta record, record, record, get comfortable with it, and then you get to the stage where you wanna put it out there or so on. And trying to really nudge them after they've recorded a few, they start getting so much as conscious about their voice or how they do a show and, you know, that insecurity starts to creep in. But initially, they're very gung ho about it. How would how do we monetize? How do we do this?
Rob Lee:But, you know, once it starts to matter to them, it's a bit more courage. A bit more attention was paid and there are stakes to it. So could you describe the the courage that it takes to, you know, build out that website, to go to these these different events and put your work out there?
Jerrill Sankey:It takes a lot of courage, man. Sometimes I get discouraged to, like, like, go to new places and new events, But I know it's part of my job, so I can't. I can't, like, opt out. You know what I mean? So I have to, like, make it happen.
Jerrill Sankey:But for me, it's like it's either all or nothing. You know what I mean? So that's how I approach everything. Like and and and and now is what in the beginning, I used to get really weirded out, when I have a new challenge to to level up to a new place. Now it's like I gauge my my next level up by getting put out of my comfort zone.
Jerrill Sankey:You know what I mean? So, now I used to be scared of that. And that that and then I figured out, you know what? When I'm normally getting out of my comfort zone, I'm going that means I'm going to the next level. You know what I mean?
Jerrill Sankey:So now I'm looking for that that that that comfort zone thing that I need to get to that next level. So the courage is there. It's always there to push forward for me and, like, really, like, just to push I mean, I'm sorry. I'm having a little brain fog. But, really, it's it's the people that I'm trying to give the people what they want.
Jerrill Sankey:Like, I have a lot of people when I don't post things for a while, they I have people that have d DM me now or, like, won't be like but, yo, what's going on? When the next drop or this, that, and the 3rd? Like, I have maker's block sometimes, but, like, the courage is always there to make new new collections of things, like, and and to put new things out. You know what I'm saying? So it's always there.
Jerrill Sankey:I I have that drive, man. I I it's just in me.
Rob Lee:I hear you. I hear you. And I've run into that if
Jerrill Sankey:I was already able to play some bad, man.
Rob Lee:No. No. You're good. You're good. And and I and I'll say, like, I've run into this.
Rob Lee:I I was in I was in NYC last year, and, you know, sometimes you have this sort of notion that, you know, people don't care. It's just like, okay. You put a podcast out there. You do a thing. You may feel like it's for me, you may feel like it's really, really good and it's really insightful and so on, and it may not have the sort of impact that you think it could or just people are disengaged or disinterested or whatever it is.
Rob Lee:And, you know, I I I went up to to New York for this this art fair and I happened to see a couple of my friends who don't live here. They they only know me through the podcast, but I went up there to see them, made it a point to see them while I was up there. And I find that friendship and connection matters so so much. Right? And they'd asked me, like, yeah, we saw that you got offline for a little bit.
Rob Lee:You weren't on Instagram. You you got rid of your profile picture. We haven't seen you post in a while. We were just kinda concerned. And I was just like, no.
Rob Lee:No. No. I'm a real life person. You know, like, you gotta stay off the online thing. It's like I'm always gonna be making stuff.
Rob Lee:I'm always gonna be doing these these different things, but sometimes you just have to take that break to reset and have the sort of, I guess, courage here to acknowledge when you need a moment, when you need to to separate yourself from something that doesn't work, or when you need to take a a breather, whether it be as a maker, as an artist, as a creative, whatever, but you just need to have that sort of reset and then re reexamine, I suppose.
Jerrill Sankey:It's definitely needed. It's definitely needed. I used to try to work, like, nonstop all the time, and it took a toll on me. And then, like, I had to start taking I had to start taking breaks, man. Now I do, like, mandatory, like, week break in a month.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah. Like, as far as, like I don't don't get me wrong. I'll still be working on projects, but I won't be trying to, like, do it every day.
Rob Lee:So when when you when you were on back in 2020, I think I was doing, like, much much more than I'm doing now. But when I got to that high watermark of 2022, I was doing almost a I was releasing nearly a podcast per day, and it it was just a lot. And, you know, you're like, I'm running this way. This is great. But, eventually, it you know, I had to intentionally, like, bring it down.
Rob Lee:So that year was 333. The following year, I brought it down to 175. And now where we're at as far as this year, I'm looking at doing, you know, 50 to 75 but really programming in that schedule, putting those breaks in and taking what comes with it. So, you know, the process, and you you saw it, when I send over my invite, I'm trying to be as hands off as possible because it's a whole another job to manage some creative folks' calendar sometimes. It's like, oh, here's the things we got.
Rob Lee:So I literally put in 2 to 3 days in a week that I'm gonna take any interviews, and then I block off certain weeks. And people will say, well, I don't see anything available. It's like, yeah. Whatever is the first one that you see, book that. If you need to move it up, happy to accommodate.
Rob Lee:But at a point, the schedule was more determined by who I could get versus what was my availability, and I was overworking myself. And I had to come to that realization. And and again, having sort of the courage to say, like, alright, I can get this interview. Maybe this is not the right time to get it. Maybe it doesn't fit, but this is what I need to do to give myself a bit more time and a bit more insight and, you know, I guess self care, but to to give myself the proper things needed.
Rob Lee:And I even put in there, look. I'm gonna need questions and headshots and all of that stuff from you beforehand. And, otherwise, I don't like going into an interview unprepared. It's my job to prepare, and the guest's job is, you know, to to be them, to be able to speak. But if they haven't done their side of it, I used to be, like, very much, I'll never be able to get them again if they, you know, they feel like I'm doing this.
Rob Lee:I'm very respectful, you know, but it's just like, look, there's sort of standards that I need from you. And if you can hit that, great. If you can't, maybe this isn't the the time or maybe this isn't the platform for it. And being confident and being having the courage to say no sometimes of this ain't gonna work. Right.
Jerrill Sankey:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Rob Lee:no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Jerrill Sankey:no So we got we got the we got the real
Rob Lee:real work out of the way. Right? Now I got some I got 4. I've been I've added 2 since we've been talking. I got 4 rapid fire questions for you, and we'll close out on it.
Rob Lee:And so we don't wanna overthink these. So that's I'll start there because, you know, I we we we get into it. You know, we do the Aquarius thing. It's just like, yeah. So, you know, if I was doing it this way, right, I could open I also could do it that way.
Rob Lee:It's like, alright. Hey. Just one. Alright. So here's the first one.
Rob Lee:Which profession would you switch to if you lost your creative or artistic ability?
Jerrill Sankey:That's a that's a good question. Which profession will I switch to?
Rob Lee:To use the X Men parlance, if you got depowered
Jerrill Sankey:Probably, I'm a say I'm a say, HVAC.
Rob Lee:You've been HVAC guy? Yeah. Okay.
Jerrill Sankey:This is a that's a pretty strong moneymaker. It's a good moneymaker.
Rob Lee:I mean, I would probably become a bouncer. Okay. Just
Jerrill Sankey:like I mean, look.
Rob Lee:I like to go to shows. You know, it's
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Wear a leather jacket. You know, it's great.
Jerrill Sankey:Nice.
Rob Lee:I have, like, giant mutton chops too. I would just look like a caricature. It's just like, I look like a henchman. That's the goal. What is your my favorite material to work with?
Rob Lee:Oh, favorite material to work with? Vortex. Okay. It's tight. What is now we we touched on this earlier, the nostalgia piece.
Rob Lee:Right? So I have one in mind and I want it I'm hoping I'm hoping that it's the same, but of the defunct brands that are out there from your youth, right, which one would you wanna bring back in this sort of creative director role? PNB Nation. Nice.
Jerrill Sankey:Speaking of PNB Nation, I did a collection of hats with, one of the founders, Bluster 1.
Jerrill Sankey:Nice.
Jerrill Sankey:A graffiti artist.
Rob Lee:Oh, yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:We did he did a canvas, and we broke it down and made some hats out of it.
Rob Lee:That's pretty tight as as well. I I was hoping you'd say Wu Wear, but, you know, it just Wu Wear
Jerrill Sankey:was amazing.
Jerrill Sankey:But,
Jerrill Sankey:I was really big on PNB nation.
Rob Lee:I was really big on Mecca. And in high school, my rap name was Nam Mecca, and I owned Rebecca T shirts. I
Jerrill Sankey:Nice. Was a caricature. My second go to pant go to brand was, Initche.
Rob Lee:Hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. NYC. So this is the last one. Given the opportunity this is, again, material related.
Rob Lee:Given the opportunity, what's the material you would love to work with for the first time?
Jerrill Sankey:Damn. I don't work with so many materials.
Rob Lee:Chainmail.
Jerrill Sankey:Shit. That's a tough one because I feel like I would work with some of the like, that barbarian barbarian materials, like, the top of the top.
Jerrill Sankey:Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:I didn't know I don't work with material from from, Mayochi, Mayotech, that brand. It's a Italian based, manufacturer. They make all the materials for Stone Island, it's Montclair. So I didn't I didn't play with some of the some of the best materials out there. Yeah.
Jerrill Sankey:I've I've yeah. Nah. There's there's no other I can think of.
Rob Lee:So I'm just gonna put you down for chain mail. I'm just waiting for you just to have, like, a hat that looks like it's made out of armor. Right?
Jerrill Sankey:Oh, armor.
Jerrill Sankey:It's just
Jerrill Sankey:like, what is this king, author,
Rob Lee:black god panel my man has? What is this? We're going into war. That would be ill though to
Jerrill Sankey:have a, what is it, like, a armor armor 5 panel cab? That'll be ill.
Rob Lee:That'll be that'll be so wild with the flaps now. You just have to have flaps on it just because?
Jerrill Sankey:Right. Right. That'd be crazy.
Rob Lee:So that's it. That's that's the podcast, man. That's all of the questions that I have for you today. So in that, there are 2 things I would love to do here. 1, I wanna thank you so much for just coming back onto the podcast and catching up with me.
Rob Lee:And, and 2, I'm gonna invite and encourage you to share with the listeners, your website, social media, where they can find you, all of that good stuff. The floor is yours.
Jerrill Sankey:Thank you. So you can follow me on Instagram on my one page. My main page is Jerrell Sankey, j e r r I l l, Sankey, s a n k e y. And my second page is nostalgic anthropology. Definitely come through and find me there.
Jerrill Sankey:My website is www.jeraldsynke.com. And join so you'll find all my latest headwear. Also, a new collaboration I have with Nature Deserves Better is available right now on my website. Apologize to nature. All hats made out of recycled materials.
Jerrill Sankey:100% recycled materials. Yeah. And check that out. And I'm also available at 16 Tons, 1021 West 36th Street, Amden, Baltimore.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I'm gonna again thank Jerrill Sankey for coming back onto the podcast and catching up with me. It's truly a treat to talk with a man of many hats. And for Jerrell, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have
Jerrill Sankey:to look for it.
