Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth In This Art, your source of conversation connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I am excited to be running it back and welcoming back my next guest, a hyper-realistic figure-to-painter whose work centers on the powerful portraits of African Americans. Her art explores the fascinating intersection on how individuals are perceived and how they intentionally present themselves, capturing the unique attitudes and trends in their appearance. We had a great conversation back in 2021, and interestingly enough, I was captured in one of these portraits back in 2023. So I'm in the art, y'all.
The truth is in the art, right? So I want to welcome back to the program the great Monica Ikegwu Welcome back to the podcast. Nice to be back. Nice to be back. Nice to be back.
And I've not done it that much this season, right? But I gotta thank you and express appreciation early on that you wore your glasses. Whenever I am with a bespectacled individual, I gotta show love and respect for the four-eyed individuals. So thank you for wearing your glasses.
Monica Ikegwu: Of course. I can't see without them.
Rob Lee: I try to front. It was a few times I've tried to look real cool, and I didn't have more. And as my partner reminds me, she was like, you know, your eyes disappear.
We don't wear glasses, right? I say, that's tough. That's hard times right here. So it's been a few years since you and I you and I chatted. I think we had our, um, pod about four years ago. 2020, right? I think it was 2021, early 2021. Oh, okay.
At least when it was released now, you know, in production time. But I want to say like, it's obviously, I think, you know, progression and things of that nature. And I would recommend folks go back into the archive and listen to that initial interview. But for those who haven't or haven't done it yet, could you reintroduce yourself? For those who might not remember who you are, what you're about, could you reintroduce yourself?
Monica Ikegwu: Yeah, of course. So my name is Monty Kegel. I am based in Baltimore, and I am a like African American portrait painter. Um, but yeah, I've been painting since I was, what, 15 years old? I'm 26 right now. I'm still in Baltimore, still working.
Rob Lee: I still don't believe you're 26. I said, I'll definitely. So, you know, since our last conversation, and thank you for that. And since our last conversation, what have been some of the more significant shifts? Like they may not be like those things that pop up on a CV, pop up on a statement. But like for you, what do you feel has been like really significant over like the last like few years that has, you know, served as an evolution for your practice or significant just moments within your practice over the last few years?
Monica Ikegwu: Well, these actually might show up on a CV. I would say that. Um, but I did graduate grad school, the shirt right here in New York Academy of Art. So I graduated in 2022. And then after that, I went back home to Baltimore and I started working on my own studio practice without school being involved.
And then from there, I actually was a part of a really major show. It was at the Boston Museum of Art called the Culture. I don't know. Did you see it? You saw it? Yeah. So that was really great. Um, and actually what they used my image for like a lot of the like the advertisements.
So like the, my painting was like all over the city on like, on the trains or like billboards. So that was really nice. And they actually extended it. So it was supposed to be in Baltimore and then St. Louis.
And then they actually went to like Germany and then Canada and Ohio. So that was really, that was a big milestone for me. But for me, I'm just usually inside just working most of the time. But yeah.
Rob Lee: So your international is what you're saying. Your work is out there just.
Monica Ikegwu: We're getting international. We're getting there. Not fully, but we're getting there. Yeah.
Rob Lee: I definitely loved it. And definitely it was one of those, those proud, like kind of not quite, but one of those proud moments, I was like, I know that's Monica's work.
Monica Ikegwu: Shout out.
Rob Lee: And, you know, in leading into the culture, I interviewed Osmo. So yeah, you know, I'm out here, got my aunt to the street. Maybe to the canvas. I think that works. Yeah. So thank you. Like I like hearing, you know, sort of in congratulations, although belated, you know, getting, you know, finishing up with school and all that's dope. Thank you. I know that that just kind of do all multiple things. It's just like, I am tired.
Monica Ikegwu: I am done. I'm done. It's the last of it.
Rob Lee: So in over the last five years with that in mind, because I think follow up, how do you refine that process? Since school is, it's not evolved in your creative process and your work process now and sort of maybe how have you changed sort of your artistic vision?
I think those moments change a lot, right? As we go along. Like, as I was sharing with you a little bit before we got started, and sort of I'll add this to it, the intent for this season. I was very curious about artist attrition and why people leave and how people have shifted and things of that nature.
While I wrapped up last season in December, I'm thinking about something completely different. So I'm like shifting, but still doing it in the same sort of way. So for you, talk a bit about refining your process and sort of your vision.
Monica Ikegwu: So because when I first started my art career, I started like back in Michael when I was like, what, 20 years? But like when I was like a junior or sophomore, no, junior or senior. And so the work that I was making and then the work with galleries, those were all like assignments. So I was like getting in class and stuff like that.
And then I'd like put a little twist on it and then like I sell it off or give it to the gallery. Same thing with grad school. Like I'm working with my assignments and working with that and then using that to create the work.
You know, I thought I'm out of school. Now it's like, okay, you're not given, you're not given any help with assignments, you know, create the work off of your own head. So it just leads me to like dive more into like the work that I'm making to be more purposeful with the ideas that I'm creating so that in itself. And then in terms of the work itself, it has shifted quite a bit actually. So I know what I when like back in 2021 when we did the interview, the work was it was still portraiture, but like the background that you remember were like fabric.
Yeah, I was painting fabric 2025. I don't do that anymore. Yeah, that's completely scrapped and gone.
I might bring it back. But right now it's kind of shifted where I was looking more so at like, you know, abstract expressionism, minimalist, those artists that feels like color and like simple shapes and then using that and combining the abstraction with the figures and then pairing them together, just so like there's not too much activity going on, like the fabrics were really active and then you have the figure which is active. So now you have to call them this is like the abstract shapes with the figure paired with that and it's just matching the geometry and matching like they're posing. So that in itself is shifted. So there's that.
Rob Lee: Was was there something that led to that or when you arrived to that, like what was the the motivation on that sort of shift?
Monica Ikegwu: I don't know because when I was doing that, like the fabric, like it wasn't like some of them were fully fabric, but some of them were like kind of half or like hatch shapes or like lines through it. And then after a while, like I was like after you do something for a while, I was doing it for like maybe two, three years and I was like, I got tired of it. It was really time consuming. And I was like, what's next? So then I don't know, I started looking more so into like flat color planes, like the paintings that were in the culture, those just had straight red backgrounds.
It was just flat. And then I just kind of moved into like looking at the geometry of the person looking at their poses and seeing how that can complement the space without actually painting like realistic things in the background. And then back kind of moved into just following the lines that follow their body and then just using colors and the same color family or to direct attention. So it kind of shifted that way.
Rob Lee: Yeah, that makes sense. That's the other thing you touch like it may come back in May, but it's good to kind of like play with. I remember I did an interview with recently actually with Terry Thompson and he mentioned in the interview, he's like, I like to contaminate my process a little bit, which I was like, you sound like a DJ. That sounds like something a DJ would say. And I think that's really, really cool. And sort of building on that, this next question, so, you know, I think we all do it. I pin different quotes or different excerpts from interviews and Instagram links. All right, I'm gonna go back to this later.
And I have it like filed under like creative insights. So there was this different piece of the interview for Ralph Williams. And he said in an interview that distractions take away from our curiosity.
So if that is true, and I don't know if it's true for you, so I'll lobby that to you. But if that is true, how do you avoid distractions and remain curious? How does that show up in your work?
Monica Ikegwu: I will say, like on Instagram, it looks like I'm always working. I get distracted all the time. Like this period where I just don't work, like people think I work it all the time, but I'm not. I get distracted and I procrastinate all the time. So I don't think you can avoid distractions because it doesn't come all the time. But every now that I like lock in for a little bit, just to feel like, you know, I'm not like losing control of what I'm doing. And then when you lock in, you kind of think of the idea, think of your process, think of what you actually want to do.
And then from there, it'll like lead you again. But I say that distractions are not avoidable. Sometimes they're necessary just to like get out of the world. It has the space of always creating something you can't be there all the time. And then you get lean into your distractions, relax for a little bit, take your mind off, do something else. And then like you get refocused and you come back.
And then it's just like switching back and forth. Like distraction, I don't think they're always bad. Sometimes they're good just to pull you out of that headspace where you're always thinking. Yeah.
Rob Lee: That's good. I think how we deem a distraction, like when I was initially like looking through that question, you know, I was like, I know I get distracted. It's like as much as I want to avoid them, but I know I get distracted. When you're hooked on it a little too long, it's like, for instance, let's say I do podcasts and podcasts are all over the place. Everyone's doing a podcast.
I was writing something up earlier explaining to a person what separates what I do, maybe from another podcast that interviews people. And then I'm thinking about it. I was like, I'm comparing myself. I'm getting distracted on what this actually is.
I think if I'm trying to compare what I'm doing, then that seeps into what I'm doing and it kind of starts to change it. And it's like, I'm not even curious. I'm trying to think like, all right, who would ask Monica this and how would they ask that?
What's going to get the most clicks versus what am I actually interested in talking to her about? Yeah. So that's the thing that I started to think about. But yeah, your point around sort of distractions aren't necessarily bad, right? Like you can have those periods where especially we're combating, I think this grind culture, this non-style like go, go, yeah, that's not good.
Monica Ikegwu: I don't like that. Yeah.
Rob Lee: I just like, I got to have planned distractions away from that hamster wheel.
Monica Ikegwu: No, see, plan distractions. Like that's the thing. You can plan your distractions, but then the ones that take you away without you like knowing about it, those can be a little bad where you're like sexy. But plan distractions. I like those. Yeah. Well, you're like, I'm not going to do work today. I'm going to do something else. Let me get distracted for a little bit. But yeah.
Rob Lee: And I think the other thing with it, that's a good point. I think the other thing with it, if you're writing, if you're on point, if you're even close to being locked back in, you're going to be working on something. That's just kind of what it is. Because like, I'm looking in here.
One day, I'm just going to take a picture of all the notepads that I have. I'm on the train a lot these days. I was sharing, I was in New York last week and I was in DC yesterday. I'm always somewhere, right? And always moving around. And I think the different trains, I'm going to have a different notepad for each one. New York thoughts.
Oh, DC, that mumbo sauce. What are we doing? But I think having that, it's like, I'm not actively working on a podcast. I'm not recording something. But I try to take from some of these interviews, like I have a small bag that I'm a recorder in.
And I'm like, doing a photography thing right now. I have my gear with me. I always get that thing on me. And then having the notepad with me that I'm picking up these insights, maybe from a podcast or an audio book or just the environment I am in. And that's the curiosity is just naturally there, I guess. Yeah.
Monica Ikegwu: And then also with that, like, there's always, I think there's always two parts to like a job or a process. We're like, I have the painting part. But like, when I'm not painting, even if I am distracted, I might be distracted doing something else, but it's still part of the whole thing. Like, if one day I decide, like, I don't want to paint today, I'm still like, like, planning out like photo shoots or like, responding to emails or I'm still on TV on the side there. But, you know, we're still, we're still working on it, just not in the like the capacity that people are familiar with, with the output. Yeah. What are you watching right now? Oh, I watch a lot of Korean shows.
Rob Lee: We will have to trade notes. We'll be trading those after this.
Monica Ikegwu: Yeah. Give them to us. They're really good.
Rob Lee: So I want to go back a little bit, because I like to talk about sort of the connections, right? And you know, in a rare instance, very rare, you actually in the home studio, you came and you you got you caught an image, you got an image of me, you painted a wonderful joint of me, my partner was like, Oh, it's the best you've ever looked. I was like, wow. I don't get it. She didn't say she's very nice. But I think in it, the thing that I really dug about like the the painting was like, it was a quote, the vibe of me outside of just like some some folks that do this, this hyper realistic work, it almost has this like photographic like sort of copy and say, okay, it's sort of lifeless, but you put that vibe of me and I was just like, Oh, yeah, that's me.
And yeah. So with that in mind, like, what are you you aiming to capture as their particular feature? Is there a particular personality trade or something else that you have a person that you're going to paint? Like, what are you really trying to key in on? What are you really locked in on consciously when you're presenting them visually in a painting?
Monica Ikegwu: Well, of course, we have like the picture look, because you remember I tip went to your place, I took the photo, so I'm working from photo is not from life. So and then was working with photos also flattened everything. So it's like a combination where like, you know, the pictures flat. So that's where you get that lifelessness where like people like copy the photo exact. But when you have like knowledge of how like light works and all that stuff, you can add on to the photo, to make it more lifelike and add the colors that will make their like make them seem lively.
But it's not one thing that I just work towards. It's more so just like making the picture reference that I'm working from, like go beyond the picture of what I'm working from to bring out the light, like even the small interactions that we have before we're taking the pictures, like seeing like if they're reserved or if they're more outgoing and like trying to attribute that to the picture, I mean, to like the painting and trying to bring out their personality. So just like, oh, a flat image of a person, but trying to give them some life, you know, also we can add a little tweak there. So add a little bit more highlight, you know, a little sparkle in the eye, you know, but the main thing is going beyond like a flat image and bringing life into it and then trying to match the personality that you get from like a single encounter. Because like with the picture, that's what I'm also working with. We're like, like the pain when you see it on the wall, you don't know that person, but you're walking past them and you're getting like a slight glance of who they are. Same thing when I'm like photographing the people, I may not know them directly, but like, what do I get from like when I'm with them and that moment taken their picture and then using that and applying it to the painting.
Rob Lee: That makes sense. And thank you. That's part of the intent in doing this, right? Like, you know, we met that time, we did a podcast, this is the second podcast, this is the third interaction that we've had over the course of four years or what happened. And in it, I find that folks come out of interviews because, you know, you're one of those ones that's like, we're old friends now because there's been so many interactions. There's some people that's like, you know, you got 10 minutes, bro, what's the pot about? And I'm like, cool.
And then it turns out the pot turns into a 40 minute conversation because they're like, you're really pulling me out of my shell a little bit. And it's something about it. And I tried to do justice for that conversation and what I got out of them. Because I have a, I guess a maybe a slight judge of character with minimal information. I was like, I think this person's interesting. What's the thing about them? I kind of figure it out and trying to show that through a conversation under sort of these parameters.
Monica Ikegwu: But yeah, yeah, same thing. Trying to get a snapshot of who a person is and then apply it to a painting. Because some of the people that I paint, I don't even know them. Some of them are like strangers and I just meet them for like a small like, you know, 15, 20 minute interaction or maybe like 30 minutes with the photo shoot. But sometimes the interaction is short and I have to like use what I get from them in that moment to apply it to like the painting of like how they want to be presented. So yeah, using some middle information and trying to bring it forth with my hands.
Rob Lee: And I like that one of my like favorite colors is a very, very teal. It's teal out. And I don't know what the color combination is that people describe. I just say it's teal. But you know, it's very much there. And I was like, yeah, it's all my favorite colors right there too.
Monica Ikegwu: I didn't even know that. Say, you look like a teal person.
Rob Lee: Yeah, I'm tealin' it up. So I think and I say this macrel as I move into this next question, it can be very sort of broad or can be very sort of, you know, sort of what's around you. But I think the art world, whether it be the sort of close and close knit sort of local community or more broad of the different places you've been, you've got the New York ties and such, you know, what, you know, the art, I think the art world is constantly evolving. Like, you know, there's always talks about this is what's popping right now. And I've talked to journalists in the art space, and they say people are kind of copying other stuff or trying to do an interpretation of a more of a senior artist.
And it's kind of making it weird. What have been, you know, any recent trends or movements or discussions within the local or broader art community that had particularly resonated with you or influenced maybe your perspective?
Monica Ikegwu: I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I haven't really been to a lot of art shows. I've been inside for like the past year for a bit. But I will say there's just one like conversation that I've had like been brought up. And even when I was in undergrad, like the idea of like representational art dying out like all the work that I'm doing is representational. So like, I was always questioned, like, like, why don't I try like abstraction or like to turn the figure into something else? Because at a time like, it was very popular, still popular today, where like, not necessarily painting what you see, but spinning it, like some you could do figurative work, but sometimes it won't even fully look like a figure because like this like mixture of like, like expressionism, extraction, like you just you're twisting it. So it's not just what you see visually, like in real life. So the idea of like, like, is it worth it to paint realistically, like, will people still like it 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 50 years from now? Like that, because I don't, I'm not, I'm planning going into abstraction. I don't know. And never noticed that with me.
I don't know how to do it. But the work that I'm doing is like heavily representational and the idea of like, is it something that was like a continued market where people continue to want it like years down the line?
Rob Lee: No, that's, that's something like, you know, I go back to this interview I had earlier in the season and we had like a side conversation about sort of what we want to see from people, or I'll even take it to like what I do. Like I've in the last year, you know, talked about updates, right? In the last year, I was explored like an educator, you know, I teach, you know, and and teach podcasting specifically and, you know, helping folks launch their stuff.
And it's on the college campus. So technically, Professor Rob here, yeah, I'm trying, you know, that's why beard is getting beardier. But I think if I sit to, you know, if I sit and I talk to sort of like, like students and even like helping folks, you know, through like Instagram, through the sort of like arts community who wanted to dive into doing podcast, I just really go with what seems simple. But it's like, do what you do what you you you like, not even do what you know, do what you like. Yeah, especially in the classroom setting, it's just like, yeah, I need to, you know, get as many downloads as this person, or how do I get to video? And it's like, all of these sort of next steps, it's like, do you even like the thing that do you even like?
Do you even like the thing that you're you're looking at doing? And, you know, it's like, and ultimately trying to get to this conversation of when you see yourself as a podcast or whatever the thing is, we all have someone we're looking at of like, I, you know, I wonder what it looks like. I wonder what their their journey looks like.
I wonder what creating for them looks like. And when I look at some of these like podcasters that I've worked with or potential podcasters that I work with, I say, stay away from the top 10, stay away from the top 20, like, you're just taking the thing that you're interested in, it could be movies, it could be, you know, sharing personal stories, whatever the thing is, and make it your own. And basically, don't try to appeal to the market is sort of the advice I was sharing out there.
Monica Ikegwu: No, see, exactly like, what I was saying, like the abstract stuff, even in like, undergrad, do like, they would advise it, like, see if you would do it. Like, even with the work done that I do, like, I have like a heavy outline around like everything, I don't know if you know what I said, but like, in school, they don't like that. Like, they always told me not to do it. But now it's the thing that people associate with my work and people love it.
CDA is keep doing it. And regardless of like, what the people say, you can take a rich like criticism, like keeping it like the back yet. But like, you know, sometimes it's not like what you actually want to do, like focus more so on like your craft. And then like, I feel like the right people will come to you and might not be like immediately.
But I feel like people will find you and that there's like people like different things, eventually, they'll find you like your crowd will find you. But that's the way I've been thinking about it.
Rob Lee: So yeah, Yeah, I think that's smart. And you touched on one thing sort of, and I think it's an interesting thing that go a little bit deeper on the like criticism, right? Because we're we're sensitive. We all look very sensitive. I described myself yesterday as a chocolate covered strawberry. It's like when I was kind of hard inside.
And I think, you know, there there's different levels of criticism, obviously, you have people saying like, I think from a technical standpoint, these are things you might want to improve upon. You're like, Oh, I can take that. I appreciate that. That helps me. That's informed. And he has something else. It's kind of mid bro. It's like, are you gonna dunk on me? Yeah. What kind of criticism do you like, I guess maybe informed or however you might deem it, but what kind of criticism do you find the most value in?
Monica Ikegwu: Well, the same thing like you said, when people add like their genuine input and not so more so, or it's like, oh, I don't like this. That thing you should change it. Like, yeah, that, when you give it like that, it's like, I don't think I want to listen to you. But when you have people that are like, oh, I think maybe if you did this, it will look better if you did this. Like, okay, even if I don't really like it, I can still listen to it and appreciate it and keep it in the back of my head. But yeah, like criticism that's like, approachable.
That's not too hard. So like when you have like your, just consider it, but criticism where it's more so like, you're doing something wrong and it's telling you that you're doing something wrong. That was never, that's never really appreciated. And now I don't think I'll remember it at all.
Rob Lee: That's good. It's like the, it's like this bit that Austin Cleon talks about. He's like, yeah, when I get these nasty emails or what have you, he's like, they immediately get deleted.
Monica Ikegwu: And I was like, yeah. Like, what did I do to you?
Rob Lee: And the thing about it is, and I don't know if this is true for you, but we're always going to be our worst critics. It's like, yeah, I got to tighten it up a little bit. It's like, you're, you're not telling me anything new.
Monica Ikegwu: No, no, I was doing a painting, right? And then I was looking at it. I was like, this looks a little odd. I don't like the way it looks. And then somebody like saw it. I was like, oh, I love it. I was like, you sure about that? Um, but yeah, like, this is the part like I messed up on it. And I was like, and I posted on Instagram. I was like, they don't see it. And then nobody comments on it.
I was like, oh, okay, nevermind. But yeah, I am a worst critic. My, my, my own worst critic. Even when I think things are going wrong, other people appreciate it. Sometimes I don't even notice it when I, when I'm like, like staying up awake, thinking about it. I was like, oh no. Oh no. But yeah.
Rob Lee: I left that one in. I was imperfect in my introduction. I flubbed it multiple times. Like before you got on, right? And this is why I prerecorded my introductions. I had this period where I just couldn't get it right. And sometimes it's like, people don't give you grace. And other times feel like, oh, let's just, and I'm like, what feels natural? What's the most important thing that I'm trying to achieve here? Conversation with me and you is what I'm trying to achieve. All of the framing of making us a production. That's important.
It's going to be done, but that's not the important part. The important part is getting into the conversation, ensuring that you're comfortable in the conversation that's worthwhile and has merit. And I've been listening to a lot of these podcasts that are around like interviews and so on, just to get an idea of what's the lay of the land. Tell you, they just go into it. They just start at a conversation they're already in the middle of it. Then go for like an hour and a half.
And I'm like, oh, you guys are half-as in it. Here. I bet that I want to do that, which goes back to what I was touching on a moment ago. Like, I'm not trying to copy what they're doing. Yeah.
You guys see what it is. It's like, okay, I appreciate the effort that I'm putting in, you know, I'm going to catch an attention towards it. So speaking on, in this, the sort of next piece I want to just get about, because you're touching on abstraction a little bit and maybe kind of like going back to some of the elements from your earlier work. Can you talk about maybe other experimentation that you've maybe delved into over the last few years?
Monica Ikegwu: So again, we talked about like how I'm doing more so geometric shapes with like flat planes of color that interact with the figure. That's been kind of consistent for like the past two years or so. But working on a new body of work, we're like, I don't know if you're familiar with like the processes of oil paint. Let me ask you that.
Rob Lee: You can share the process of oil paint. Okay.
Monica Ikegwu: So you usually oil paint like traditionally you would do like a thick like under layer and then you glaze on top in order to get the colors to go through and it makes it look more luminous. The way that I paint is like a little bit backwards. Well, I don't use layers. I only use one layer and then I'm one and done. But recently I've been playing with like glazing and glazing is like when you take a color and like you like oil, like you add like a lot of oil or medium and it becomes translucent and then like you glaze over top like your color layer and then it changes it and makes it more like luminous. I've been playing with that. So the colors are like a little bit more vibrant, a little more, you know, shinier, a little bit more, you know, tangible.
I don't know. But the glazing I've been liking it. So I've been incorporating it into lots of my works I've been doing now. I even this new like group of work that I'm doing right now. It has lots of glazing in it. So we'll see how that turns out.
Rob Lee: I like it. I like experimenting. I have, I had this period in here. I'm looking at in my home studio. I have some of my old paintings in here when I thought I was going to start painting back about 10 years ago. It's 10 years ago.
I'm 40 now. So it's just like, yeah, I'm out here. And but I, but you mentioned sort of the luminescence of the vibrancy and the sort of the glaze. I was like, oh yeah, I remember when I was doing some of this stuff, when I would pull off the easel in the other home studio.
Oh, right. This is my identity for a while. And I was smoking closed cigarettes and just. I was, look, I was a one beret away from being a weird art guy. Now just talk to you guys.
Monica Ikegwu: Living vicariously. It's great. Um, so that's, that's good. I think it's always important to tanker and tweak with what we're doing. Just seeing what would interest you and just saying, like, all right, let me, let me try this out for a bit. Okay. That works in this way and but making it your own as well. And I like Darinna. Yeah.
Monica Ikegwu: But yeah, you know what I tried when I was in grass, like an undergrad, I didn't experiment a lot, but in grass, well, I actually took a couple classes that were outside like the general painting, like I said, like a watercolor class. I like that a lot. And then I took like a portrait, like a sculpture portrait class clay firing in the kiln.
Um, I didn't think I would like it, but I loved it. Um, I have like one of the sculptures here that I was able to fire and then I got painted like realistically, I might dive into that. I don't have the facilities for that right now, but you may see sculptures.
If I can, you just sit down and actually figure out what to do with that. But I do like sculpture. So that's the avenue that I might dive back into.
Rob Lee: But yeah, I hear doing artistic side quests. I like it.
Monica Ikegwu: Let's see what we can go beyond. Yeah.
Rob Lee: Um, and, you know, as, and thank you for that. That definitely covers like two questions as dope. Um, I want to go back to this, this sort of notion here. Um, so Jerry salt, right? The dark critic, he talks about, um, how all great artists worry, whether it's about their work, the merit, their merit as an artist and things of that nature. What, what do you worry about most and how do you cope?
Monica Ikegwu: So I know you mentioned earlier about that comparison. So like, you know, like that, um, what is it called the identity, it's not identity, it's like imposter syndrome. Yeah. Imposter syndrome. So basically, like, um, I see lots of artists on Instagram on Instagram all the time. But when you see the artists and like what people are doing, you sit in a question.
Like, we're, it's not stuff even good. Um, cause I can see people like, um, and I totally like my background is a flat, like there's nothing there. So I'm like, am I even doing enough? It's a figure enough to capture people's attention.
Like, do I need to add more to it? So I'm always there questioning. Like, I think like it's good. Like people tell me like, good, good, but I'm always questioning my head. Like, is it actually good? Like, can I keep doing this for 10 years? Like, is it really that good?
Um, so that's a worry of mine. Like, is the work actually as good as I think it is, or is it just like basic levels? So I'm always like, criticize myself. But people always complimented it, but I'm like, you just saying that just say it or is it genuine? Like, I don't know. That's just my worry. That work that the work isn't actually as good as people are complimenting it to be. I don't know.
Rob Lee: That I think that's, I think that's the thing a lot of us like share. Like I have, you know, a cadre of folks that I spend time with, then we all kind of talk in the same way. Like when I do these, I was like, am I talking too much? Is this edited? Am I putting too many out?
Why is this not this? I used to think in the first season of doing this, maybe first two seasons. And, um, I used to think, well, first two years, not in first two seasons, first two years doing this podcast. I used to think that if, if the guest, if the guest is laughing or if I'm trying to impress them with my knowledge or whatever and how great the question is written, that I'll gain some cash in and they'll like me. And I was like, overthinking that stuff, overthinking those questions.
And at times I would think, oh, they hate me anyway. I don't know why do you even did the podcast? I used to literally used to think these things. And, you know, sometimes it's that, that, that loop that you get where, and I still now, but I don't care about it as much now where, you know, you'll have folks do it and they have a good conversation. You think you've connected and by virtue of some of the folks that I've reached back out to, like you said, yes, you know, there's always the option of someone saying no or, and, you know, the intent is to have a worthwhile conversation. And I find like, I put a fair amount of work in this. I know you put a fair amount of work in your work, but when it doesn't hate or it doesn't have sort of that, that expectation that you're looking for, not a, hey, this needs to do six million downloads.
I just hope the guests had a good time and they will share that conversation. That's sort of what I'm inspiring. And a lot of times now I'm moving on to the next thing.
And that's where the sort of grind in this hamster wheel thing that happens. And I find that sometimes I had just yesterday, I had a guest I interviewed two years ago. He was like, yeah, I'm putting this back out there. You are our interview man. Cause this is like the only interview I've done.
He's like, I would love to come back on the podcast as well. And I was like, absolutely. And this is the theme of the season. That's one of those things that's like, okay, people do recognize and they do appreciate it. So when I get sort of the, I'm just, am I just throwing this out there?
Are the people getting it and people feeling it's worthwhile? So that's, that's sort of the thing that's there for me, I think pretty regularly of my just wasting my time. Yeah.
Monica Ikegwu: Well, like I also, that like, I feel like my work is in good enough. But like you, every now and then, like you said, like that person that came back, like I do get DMs. Like sometimes like school teachers, though, DM me, like, we're using your project, your paintings as like examples for my classmates. I'm like, really?
And they'll show me like they have like presentations and my pictures and like they sound like all the students love them. Like, really? And there were people who were like, oh, you inspired me to paint again.
And I was like, dang, really? Um, so like those little messages kind of bring me out of that rut. Uh, so it's like a back and forth, but like a good, I think it's good just to help push me forward.
Like doing my work at criticizing it a little bit, but not to get too much for the point where I'm like, I'm like, this isn't good. But, but yeah, I wouldn't, I don't know. So I worry a bit about that.
But like, also those messages just bring me back and let me know that your work has purpose, even if you, your critics out on yourself a little bit too much. So yeah.
Rob Lee: That's good. I think, um, it gives you, it's a grounded thing. Cause I think some, I like hearing stories. I don't run it to too many people that I like this, but I like people that just have that unwavering confidence. It's just like, yo, you do a stick figure.
It's the greatest stick figure you've ever seen. It's like, you didn't know work, bro. Like, what do you say? But at the same time, it's just like, I love that irrational confidence because yeah, you know, I don't have it. I know a lot of people, but when I'm in my, when I'm in my flow and I was like, look, I know this is good. So you can, you know, and those don't happen that often, but when they do, you got to grab them and then you get that feedback from folks.
You got to hang on to those things because eventually it does, it does the waxing and waning those go up and down and you get back to those periods of like, I could have edited that differently. I could have asked a better question. I could have like, did they see that part of this painting? Did they see that? All right. That's cool.
Monica Ikegwu: I will say I got some pains. I got high confidence about like, I wouldn't doubt it at all. So I will say that some pain is like top tier for me. I was like, nothing, no doubt about that one. But, but yeah.
Rob Lee: So thinking about it, you were touching on it a bit. So I think it's kind of peppered in this question, but at least like put it out there. So thinking about your current projects, future aspirations, what are you most excited about sharing in the next like year or so, you know, as far as good, I know, like, obviously things take time. It's not like, you know, Burger King gets not fast food. It's not going to be here immediately.
Like, you know, what you cooking in the lab? It's like, everyone's not me. It's like, I got 15 podcasts this week. You know, not really, but I used to look, look, I used to do 18 or a week some days, some week.
Yeah. So, but what do you, what do you have coming up that you're really excited for, you know, whether it be exploring, doesn't have to necessarily be like, I got this show that's happening with that or have you, but, you know, what are you excited for in the next like year?
Monica Ikegwu: So I do know in the next year, so I have a show. I can't, it's not, you know, publicized yet. So I can't get the little juicy details of it.
Rob Lee: But I will say it has to do with an institution so that. Okay. Okay.
Monica Ikegwu: So I'll give you that little tip. But the work that I'm doing for me, like I said, I'm doing lots of glazing for it. Like, instead of the work being like your own individual, it'll be like a whole body of work, but they're all going to be one singular color, like United by one color. And then it's going to deal with like a lot of like the same abstract shapes, but like instead of like being behind this figure, then it like cuts through the figure instead. So, um, see, I don't know if that's easy to visualize, but it's going to be a little different from the traditional work that I was doing before. So yeah, I'm excited about working with that. Yes.
Rob Lee: And we may have to have you back on to talk about that.
Monica Ikegwu: We'll refresh. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, if we go back to that previous conversation, let's talk about this one. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Okay.
Rob Lee: So here's the last question that we've gone through, like we covered a lot here. And yeah. So shout out to you. Um, you've, you've been a champ here. Uh, let's close out and, and looking beyond sort of the obvious skill that goes into it, the education that goes into it, what are the distinct factors or philosophies, right? That you believe are most crucial for navigating, like in being successful. Um, I think, you know, some people will undermine that success.
I've not had any successes. Like you're making work. Yeah. Success in itself. But what is truly, you know, attributed to, you know, your success and what, you know, has made a difference for you.
Monica Ikegwu: Honestly, I would just say like the discipline is what helps. Like when you're not disciplined, then you don't have the ability to keep going. Like even if I have that imposter syndrome, even if I'm doubting the work, the discipline to just keep on and making work and continue to post on it, to continue to take photographs, to continue to take photoshoots. And then just cranking out work, despite the fact of how I feel is continuing to have a discipline to keep working, even when I'm tired or even when I don't want to, I'm not going to lie. I didn't want to paint today. I'm up there.
I'm going to get back on tomorrow. So it's okay. I got the discipline for that. Um, but yeah, the discipline is what has carried me throughout this. Um, but like managing my time and just continue to make work even when I don't think people will like it, even when I don't think the painting is strong, but continuing to go through it. And I've been disciplined since high school, since high school teachers, they even still talk about it. How I always turned in my assignments on time, even early. Um, but yeah, the discipline is what carried me and I think that's what's going to continue to carry me and help me to crank out the work. But yeah.
Rob Lee: That's great. Um, it reminds me of a, the interview I did very, very, very early on in the podcast with, uh, just the super talented casting director, um, Theo Washington, and she was talking about at one point, what separates folks like that are getting gigs that are getting work. And it's like being there, showing up, being disciplined, you know, cause a lot of people you would think like, at least I know, I think, oh, anybody can do this. It's like most people just don't show up or can, or consistent in doing it. This is actually the opposite of you showing up and actually doing your stuff. It's almost the opposite of what most people do. Yeah.
Monica Ikegwu: But yeah, the discipline, I think that's what makes it, uh, like different. Like you could have like the incredible talent. If you don't have that discipline to carry it out, then you might not get as far. So yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee: And it's, it's like, I mean, I make analogies. I like basketball, right? I think of whatever I watched the slam dunk contest, you know, from years ago, and I would hear Charles Barkley just tell these guys like working your jump shot. Your knees are going to be terrible when you're 30. So you need to have something else that keeps you around. So having a plan to practice and not just use sort of whatever that innate talent, that athleticism and that scenario to get yourself over and keep you relevant. It's just like discipline, discipline, discipline is really key.
Monica Ikegwu: Well, yeah, discipline and always keep yourself learning and continue to push up at the work that you have to disnoe that you can't stay stagnant. You have to do something you will be better, change it up a little bit, but the discipline to continue to keep going forward, despite everything, every challenge that comes your way. But yeah, that's it.
Rob Lee: That's great. And so now, now, because we got all the good stuff out of the way, we need to rapid fire. Okay. So I got three of them for you. And the first one kind of aligns to what we just finished talking about.
Right. So if you have a, you know, sort of a quote, a saying, what would that be? What is your like common saying that is someone's like, I need advice. I need something, you know, it's like, yeah, you just, you know, you mess 100% of the shots. You don't take, you can steal from other people, but what would be your saying?
Monica Ikegwu: Your monthly, oh my God. I don't even know what I say all the time. Um, I'm Christian. I'm just say pray to Jesus. Um, if you got a problem, if you have a mistake, but a price. Um, but yeah, that'll be it. I like it.
Rob Lee: Could you name an unexpected, you know, maybe it was previously unexpected, like daily habit that's now become like essential for you. Like I, you know, when I started this whole, uh, like I've been on this, I hate the term weight loss journey, but I've been on this sort of like diet change and all of that different stuff. And every morning, no, no, not any every morning, every Saturday morning, instead of like sleeping late, I get up and it's like, I got to process my berries. They got to make my berry bowls for the week. So let me clean these berries. And now it's just, you know, common. It's just like for the last two years, this is what I do.
Time to prep the berries. I'm like, I'm so norm core right now. But what is something that if you looked at yourself like maybe three or four years ago, you're like, I'll never do that. And it's like, I do that every day now.
Monica Ikegwu: Um, kind of similar to what you said, but like, I was on like a white weight loss journey too, because I had pain, some COVID weight. Um, but like at some point, I kind of stopped now, but at some point, I was going to the gym for times a week and I was walking the treadmill for an hour. Every single time that I went and, um, like I stopped it now, looking back out like that was insane. Uh, that was a lot like an hour straight. But, um, but yeah, that was something I did in the past right now. I have no idea. I'm pretty calm, pretty chill right now. That was an extreme case, but yeah.
Rob Lee: Were you, were you doing with the incline as well? Yes.
Monica Ikegwu: With the incline for an hour.
Rob Lee: It'll, it'll knock it off. I'll tell you that much.
Monica Ikegwu: You're like, it did. It worked, but it was insane. Yeah. Three times a week. Yeah. For an hour straight. Yeah.
Rob Lee: Yeah. I think the most I do is like 40 minutes on there, but like once a week is just like Wednesdays is that one day it's like, look, I'm only walking today and I hit many weights, uh, cause otherwise it's like my central nervous system is going to be completely fried and I won't be able to do it the next day. Uh, but yeah, definitely it's like that 10 or 12 incline speed at 3.5. My, you know, glutes are burning. And I was like, I don't even have glutes. Why did it hurt?
Monica Ikegwu: I will say my legs was amazing at that time.
Rob Lee: So I'm trying to get my legs on point. That's the only goal. See all of my goals right now, right? Are around, uh, being ridiculous. I was at, I think project artscape one year and I'm sitting like next to who's running Bopa at the time. And I had Hoochie daddy shorts on cause that's all I was wearing at that point. And as you remember, one of the designers, she was like, Oh yeah, your legs were really ashy that day. I was like, but she was joking.
She was trolling me cause I'd already set it up. I had like the wild ashy legs and I was like, all right, I need to make sure if I'm wearing you, Hoochie daddy shorts, tone your legs as well. Make sure they're lotioned, but tone your legs, sir. So that's been my goal for the whole year.
That's far 2025. A lot of leg exercises. You got to get my legs looking great. I'll follow what you did three days a week.
Too much in the treadmill. Um, so here's the last one. Okay.
If you were to write a autobiography, your artistic journey thus far, what would the title be? Uh, this is like asking a person to chat GPT prompt. I know. It's like bio and give me a witty title for their autobiography.
Monica Ikegwu: Hmm. It's a little, let me see. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see.
Rob Lee: And I know I'm asking a 26 year old to do that.
Monica Ikegwu: By the way, I know my life isn't even that long yet. Oh, hold on. Let me see. Just say yes. Yeah. Just say yes. You know, my dad always told me, he said, no, my dad, they both said, they said, if you have an opportunity to do something, if you have the capability to do it. And like, it's not like interfering in your life, literally just say yes. So for a lot of the opportunities that I had, even if I didn't want to do it, but if I had the time, I just said yes. And some of them turned out really well. So yeah, just say yes.
Rob Lee: That's good. I'll take this moment to share minds and this is a similar vein. So this is, you know, hive mind here. My version of just say yes is just ride the wave. And I'm an Aquarius.
I have to throw that in there as well. Just riding the wave. So it lines and I could just see it now. Like I could see the cover of your biography, just you with some black turtleneck or something really pretty. Uh huh. I'm doing a thought. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um.
Monica Ikegwu: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee: So that's kind of it. You got off the hot seat. You got all the questions covered. Um, so in these final moments, there's two things I would love to do. One, I want to thank you for coming back onto the podcast.
It's truly a pleasure. I would love it here. And in two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners, websites, social media, any of that stuff for folks to keep up to date with all things happening in your world. So please share.
Monica Ikegwu: So the main source you can find me, you can find me on Instagram at Monica one, six, five. And then from there, you can find my website and my email and everything. Um, but yeah, mainly my Instagram Monica one, six, five. So where you'll find me and all the stuff that I'm doing.
Rob Lee: There you have it folks. I want to again, thanks be great Monica Ikegwu for coming back onto the podcast and catching up with me. It's a truly a pleasure and a joy to, to reconnect.
And for Monica, I am Rob Lee saying there's our culture and community in it around your neck of the woods. You just have to look forward.
