Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth In THis Art, your source for conversation connecting art, culture, and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host Rob Lee. Today, I am running it back and speaking with a visual artist and educator whose work explores identity, interpersonal dynamics, and America's socio-political landscape.
Blending abstraction, representation, and symbolic language, his paintings reflect on turbulence and balance, shaped in part by his long history as a martial artist. We last spoke back in 2022 and I'm looking forward to hear what's new in his studio and in his world. So please welcome back to the program Christopher Batten. Welcome back to the podcast.
Christopher Batten: So my name is Christopher Batten, originally from Detroit, Michigan, but I've been living in Baltimore for 10 years now, or going on 10 years. I'm a painter, draftsman, art educator, muralist, occasional, and my work right now is centering upon family. I've really been looking back at my, or trying to, starting to look back at my family history, specifically in this country, and really trying to dissect how that's affected the person I was, the person I currently am, and the person I hope to become. So that's a pretty, I guess concise kind of breakdown of what I'm working on right now.
Rob Lee: I'm almost hearing that it's the three Christopher's is just like, yeah, so this is me. This is me before, and this is me in the future. We don't know what's going to look like.
I mean, with some of the stuff in this food, who knows, it's like, this Christopher's got four arms now. It's great. Right. And thank you for sharing that. And you touched on a little bit, you know, coming up on 10 years, this August will be 10 years in Baltimore. So what stands out the most for you being here, you know, over that decade, and like how much is sort of being here in this environment from a specifically cultural, specifically like arts lens that stands out to most, the most for you and what's influenced you and your work these days that really stick out of our Baltimore.
Christopher Batten: For me, again, it's the resilience of the people, which, you know, I feel Matt matches my hometown and that's one of the reasons why I like Baltimore so much. Yeah, just very resilient people, very creative people. You know, we just keep moving. We just keep moving. Try to try to make the best of what we got. And, you know, that's definitely influenced me in terms of, yeah, just trying to utilize what I have and try to make the most of it, you know, and count my blessings.
So that's been a consistent thing over these few years. And then also with my teaching or the teaching part of my practice, just really seeing again how resilient the kids are here and the things they deal with. And, you know, they still come to school every day and try their hardest and, you know, succeed. And it's just, you know, it's been very inspiring. So it's great to have that energy around me on a daily basis. And I just try to utilize it to the best of my ability. That's tight.
Rob Lee: So I have, so since we last spoke, I've been to Detroit. I was actually there. I was there to see Beyonce. That was a thing. You know, I was like, I couldn't find a ticket here. I was like, you know, the coffee is a little crazy.
Let me go to Detail and see what it is. And I went there and then I got some culture. I went to a few different places and it was great. And definitely it's not quite an East Coast city in terms of the dynamics there. It feels central, right?
But as far as my estimation, like I think of East Coast, like I don't think Baltimore is East Coast City, like New York is East Coast, Philly is East Coast, that pace is a little different. But Femity is there and I really enjoyed going there. And I'm probably going to go back. I got a DIA hat in the crib.
I wear what I'm trolling sometimes. Just like, yeah, y'all take a look at it. Look closely at it. I might be there one day. And you were touching on that teaching is a major part of sort of like your identity as an artist is a big part of your studio practice. So what does it look like in real terms beyond the classroom?
And how do you see sort of education as part of the creative act? And I say that because as I was sharing before, like I'm venturing in that lane as well. And it's changed how I think about my work. I have to pay a little bit more attention to how I go about it. It's not as microwaved or like I can easily do this quick and dirty. I have to go step by step through the process as if I'm doing how to do it. So talk about that for yourself.
Christopher Batten: So for me, giving my students these visual problems presents, it creates these situations where I get to watch them deal with these things. And then I can take their very unique and individual solutions to those problems and try to experiment with them when I go to the studio. So it's almost like teaching is a brush. It's like an additional brush in my studio.
And then the kids and their trials and tribulations with those problems are the canvas. And I know it sounds kind of weird, but it's like... So yeah, it's just really cool to kind of combine those two things in terms of the experimentation that takes place when I'm alone in the studio. And then the experimentation that I see my students going through when they're dealing with the things that I put before them. So yeah, it's become another tool.
I think early on in my teaching career, I kind of saw them as being separate, but I'm realizing that one aspect, the teaching aspect kind of cultivates the making aspect of my practice and vice versa. And another thing is impact. Because I think a lot of times we, as artists, need to feel like we're moving somewhere, we're going forward, we're making an impact in some kind of way, whether it's internally or externally. And one of the things that I've come to enjoy, and at this point in being in Baltimore, I've taught probably over a thousand people at this point. And so there are times when I'll be walking down the street and I hear, you know, I'll be at a traffic light and I hear somebody say, hey, professor, you know, and it's like somebody yelling from their car.
Or I'm in the grocery store and I hear somebody, you know, yell my name across the aisle and it's one of my former students. And that knowing that I'm making some type of positive impact with the things that I'm teaching, whether my student goes into art or becomes a doctor or whatever. That's another thing that I think cultivates the making part of my practice. It lets me know that I'm going somewhere, you know.
Rob Lee: It gives you that feedback and it's like a reminder and you know, you can get those moments when you're getting those blueberries, those blackberries. You're like, I got these blackberries in my head. Yo, professor, I should put these chips down or what have you.
I got to look at the blueberries. But yeah, like, I will say it's an enriching thing. It's almost getting that lack of isolation. Like my understanding is being an artist can be very isolating.
It can be a very lonely situation. So having some similar to the community, some semblance of now granted, you know, we're in a capacity where you're being paid to pay attention to their work. They're paying to pay attention to you, paying attention to their work and that whole dynamic.
But when you strip that stuff away, there's art, there's communication, there's things that are being built out there. And I find that in doing this, as long as I have, you don't get the feedback as much. And I remember being in a digital story telling class and the peer review was a piece of it. And I got a little much out of that. And I get so much out of these instances where I can not, I'm not thinking I'm not making quote unquote work for the audience or the market, as it were, and like, hey, I'm going to talk to everyone else who's doing.
No, you lose your uniqueness. But there's a consideration in a tell that somebody's consuming this at the end of the day. So for yourself, did you put forth your best effort? And I had to think about that a lot of times. So you probably looked at the question, she's like, Dan, ask me all types of stuff. And, you know, there's that goes into it other than so, oh, tell me about it and just let you cook for the next hour.
No, I want to know these things. So my thinking and how I go about conversation has definitely been affected by me doing this podcast and this podcast has been a teaching for a couple of years or what have you. And is there a for you, is there a really telling sign that in your your process and making work that you can detect that connection back to the classroom? Like, yeah, this came out of the classroom and now I do this now or this way of going about this comes out of the classroom.
Christopher Batten: Oh, yeah, for sure. So one thing that I've started to notice is so I spent a lot of time making examples for my students, mostly mostly my high school students because I teach high school when also teach college and in in making these examples, I'm forced to reconcile with these very fundamental principles that artists are taught makes, for example, a good composition or makes a sound value structure or, you know, so on and so forth. So I'm constantly having to continue with these things. And because of that, it is almost become. I think I've started to digest those principles. Whereas before I was just kind of smelling them.
Rob Lee: If that makes sense.
Christopher Batten: So like now I'm really digesting this stuff like, you know, the, you know, the creative ways to say arrange shapes to create an interesting composition or sound color relationships and things like that. I'm really having to reconcile with these things because now I have to make other people or try to make other people understand these things. And so I think it's provided a very unique and fruitful opportunity to digest these principles and reflect them in the work that I make when I'm in the studio.
Rob Lee: That makes sense. This is the thing where you might read a like I read the same books over and over again in a week, right? Or audio book. I consume the same books going with the analogy, right? I find that it might not hit me in that given moment of I'm missing it. And this is why I don't like reading paper because the comprehension isn't as strong because I'm too caught in the overthinking loop. So listening is my way of I'm going to get the thing I need to get. So in terms of retention, I might listen to, let's say 48 Laws of Power in a given week and go through that full book.
I might get 5% of it. Then when I listen to it, let's say two, three weeks later, I'm getting maybe additional 5% or additional 10% of comprehension goes up and I'm always getting something new out of it. And I think that that's when, you know, maybe that it's just how I go about my questions, how I go about my work, how I go about the sort of thinking that goes into it. And I'd imagine the teaching component like I taught last year.
Some just folks starting from like maybe knowing what a podcast is to buy the end of it recorded a trailer, you recorded episodes, you've edited an episode, you've done some stuff around the marketing of it. This isn't four weeks. And, you know, planning this stuff out and sort of the same rundown is going to be this year. And I'm like, all right, am I am I saying some BS here when I'm teaching us?
Let me make sure the latest stuff. So now it's like, all right, I was doing this because I'm doing it, right? But since I'm teaching it, it's like, all right, you need to be up to date, need to be a little bit more well read in that industry that you're not guiding people because now they're stakes. Now you're responsible for some people. Right. Right.
Christopher Batten: Yeah, that's that's that's that. Oh, um, yeah, I've just become more and more aware that like I got out of there. I'm not going to say all my stuff because, you know, you don't you don't want to leave people the wrong way. I mean, of course, you know, we're not perfect, but you know, you're going to try to do the best you can to kind of stay up on things so, you know, people can get the outcome that that that they they want and also that you want.
Rob Lee: I'm way too insecure for someone to say, yo, Mr. Lee, that quest, that's wrong. That's not how podcasts are done. Like, you're right. I'm way too insecure to deal with that. Like you were touching on teaching high school and college and they definitely got a college question this next one. But my started off with high school students. And I was like, yo, they're seniors.
They hate me. First class is like, you're old. I was like, I was like, I was like, so what do you guys as majors or what do you guys study? And it's like, ah, theater and film.
And I'm like, oh, so you absolutely hate me. And I think it made me get really agile with how I was thinking. Leveraging for theater component, leveraging, you know, it's a performative aspect to this, right? Or from the film aspect, trying to be a director, right? You know, this is just storytelling. It's just a different medium. And connecting with them on that way. It's like, I got to think harder. It just makes it rewires how you think. Oh, yeah. For sure.
Christopher Batten: For sure. In a very, very productive way. Because yeah, that kind of change in the, in thought direction. I think is, is playing, playing itself out in the work I'm making. So, you know, that's why I say, you know, my teaching and my making is, you know, they're critical elements to like what makes up my entire practice. So, yeah, I think you hit that hit the nail on the head with that one.
Rob Lee: It's like it's braided to get there. So this is one form of work. We got it. Right. Up at a dome. That's too deep for y'all. That's too deep for y'all. So you're now entering your third year teaching at Morgan State, right? That's my alma mater, you know, as they say, as your other mother, as they say. What has that opportunity meant to you, especially like teaching at HBCU and how to connect back to your academic or artistic past? I mean, you know, I think a lot of times HBCU is kind of get this deprecated thing, which I think is a real weird invention. Like I'm proud to have graduated from Morgan and I referenced it and I always get these weird back.
Oh, you went to Morgan? What does that even mean? Right. Right. So what does that mean from you being a black man, a black artist and being able to teach that now in year three at an HBCU?
Christopher Batten: So for starters, this has been, it's been a dream of mine since I became an educator, what, like a decade and a half ago to teach at an HBCU. I just always wanted to do it. And the main reason is so when I was in high school, I was fortunate enough to have professional artists as my teachers.
And these were all black men. And me seeing that gave me an idea that or gave me the idea that being an artist is something that's achievable. It's something that's possible because I think, you know, in our community, and I mean, I think, I think this is a universal thing, but, you know, specifically, you know, in reference to our community, I think sometimes, or a lot of times like becoming an artist is not really looked at as something legitimate.
It's almost looked at as a pipe dream a lot of times. And having them around really show me that it's possible. And so I wanted to be what those teachers were to me to, you know, aspiring black artists. And that's my main motivation for teaching at Morgan is I really want to give them a chance to see someone that's living as an artist.
I mean, you know, I am an educator as well, but, you know, I have, you know, exhibitions all around the country and, you know, I've been in various things and I have accomplishments under my belt and, you know, they can Google these things and look them up and see that this is like a real thing. Like I can do this. And so, yeah, that's some, that's the biggest thing for me is is and already, you know, even though I haven't been there that long, I've already been able to kind of motivate the students there that I've taught to see that, you know, you can you can do this if you want to, you know, and despite sometimes the lack of support that we get. But yeah, you can you can totally do it and that's that's my reason for for being there. I just want want to be a concrete example for for my students. So I just feel very fortunate to be able to have that opportunity. So, that's great.
Rob Lee: And thank you for that context because I think and I see that sort of same vibe like I have this weird sort of relationship with the opportunity that you have.
You know, I'm not even a teacher even being asked or getting the call. Naturally, my inclination is, hey, like putting people on the stuff. Hey, man, that's the easiest way to do it. I'm a problem solver always. And I find that when that vision isn't in alignment and it sounds like what you're describing that is in alignment for you when that vision isn't in alignment. You know, it should be that you know, it should be like, hey, let me give a crunk a concrete example of this is someone that's actually doing it. Like, I remember this interview with Sam Jackson, not that I did because I don't interview actors like that, that level, you know, Marvel actors.
Who does that? I would like to. There'll be a lot of MFers said in that episode. So, you know, he was talking about like, I think of his family is talking about sort of if he's not why he does so much work. And it's like, well, I'm a working actor.
And it's sort of that you got to be in the scene. Like, and I took that approach when I was teaching. I was like, you know, I talk with my students.
I was like, I have a podcast today. I'm doing this and this is what I'm talking about. And sometimes I would ask them like, if you were talking to this person, what questions you would ask, I would make that to an assignment. Let's say, here's a prompt. You're interviewing this person. If you were to interview them, what question do you find to be interesting? Maybe something as goofy as why do you make this art? Or when did you get started or what have you? But what are you curious about? And I was like, apply that to what you're doing and kind of build off of that. And just someone who looks like me, who's from this area is not someone that's inaccessible. It's not someone who has no relation to the place. It's like, I have the same accent most of the time that y'all have.
I want to do the same places. I got bullied by the same, well, versions of the same guys. I hope no adults are belated. I've walked those same streets and it's relatable in that way and not untouchable. And I think that resonates in a way.
And sometimes you have to really sell that point across and get it across. And I go back to the high school class. I just remember I had this one student, he reminded me of Zay Flowers from the Ravens. And I was like, yeah, you look like Zay Flowers, my guy.
And I was always kind of like half roast each other, but he really dug me. And I was like, all right, this is cool. And I feel like he was learning stuff from it. And in listening to some of the students and I had like 12 students at high school set up. They would just build out these podcasts and I found like they need to just be doing it.
Not just listening to me yammer on. Yappadonna style. But they need to just be just doing it and that's changed the approach even in doing this.
You know, like not to guess cook. Yeah. So this next thing you touched on one of the things that sticks out for Baltimore is resiliency. Right.
So resiliency is there for you, my guy. You know, after four years of trying, you landed that residency at the Virginia Center for the creative arts. Let me keep applying what are the hopes to what are you hoping to give space to during that time there in this residency?
Christopher Batten: So, yeah, just to just to kind of revisit that point. So I yeah, it's been like four years of applying for tons of different things. And I mean, I probably heard no more times in the last four years than I have most of my life. You know, it was it was it was pretty wild. It was pretty wild. And yeah, it may it definitely made me I mean, I'm a human, you know, I'm human being.
So it definitely made me question some things. But yeah, when I when I got that notification, I mean, I was back in the game, you know, as far as I was concerned. So that that was an indication that, you know, I'm not I'm not making works in vain, you know, because again, I think I mean, I've heard some artists say this, but I think you do need some kind of recognition from time to time. So you know that, you know, you're not doing this for nothing.
And that notification really, really gave me that recognition that I needed after, you know, is four years of turmoil applying for things. And what is so one of the things that kind of happened over the past, I say two years is the balance between the teaching aspect of my practice and the making aspect of my practice has kind of been a little off. I've been I've been investing more time and teaching and preparing to teach and just coming up with lessons and things like that.
So I haven't really been making as much as I normally have in the past. And what this residency is going to give me is it's time and space to where I can just worry about making stuff. And I'm already gathering like family photos and things like that that I want to create pieces from and, you know, just doing research about my family like I mentioned earlier.
And I'm ready to go. I can't wait to just have that time and space to think about nothing but making art. And again, I love I love being an educator and I love, you know, coming up with creative lessons and challenges for my students.
But I think it's time to, you know, to water water the other area of my my lawn here. So, so yeah, I think I'm really, really looking forward to that. So that that time and space and, you know, my meals will be provided so I don't have to cook anything. I don't have to, you know, use time for that or I can just worry about this pain and yeah, I cannot wait. I'm super excited.
Rob Lee: So I'm curious as a congratulations, by the way. Thank you. And so I'm curious about the other side of it. We always hear about the challenges and the bubba bubba and it always just seems like hard and there's no fun. And I, I recognize that in myself, right?
Like this podcast is going to be at a thousand episodes very, very soon. And I don't celebrate any of these things, right? Hold on for a second. This one going off because it's on the storms in the area.
Live. But I, I haven't celebrated episode 100, episode 200, 300 and so on. And I'm feeling like I need to start doing that and so on, especially when I have these big interviews, you know, all of the interviews are important interviews and they're good interviews. But I think you have these sort of milestones. You got to celebrate them. So for you, how did you, how do you celebrate milestones? It could be sort of this residency being one that don't think we celebrate our wins enough. We're so caught on just what's the next thing when we eventually win? Yeah.
Christopher Batten: Yeah. I mean, you're, you're again, you're spot on with that. And I'm definitely guilty of not really celebrating wins at all. It's, it's, I'm definitely wanting to just kind of move on to the next thing. Like I'm already applying for other residencies, you know, and it's, um, yeah, as far as this, I'm not sure. But to be honest, I don't think I have celebrated it yet. And, you know, you just kind of reminded me, I probably should do something for myself, you know, and just take the time to reflect. And I mean, because it was four years coming, you know, so. Yeah, but to be honest, I haven't really done anything and yeah, that definitely needs to change.
Rob Lee: It's one of the things that when I was doing live podcasts regularly, my partner was like, hey, we're going to go get a meal. We got to have a celebratory dinner. And I was like, all right, we should do that.
She's like, you just crushed it. What are you, what? Are you going to like work on questions for the next episode? No. Yeah. And, you know, and it's this thing where no one's asking you for your work. No one's asking me for my word. And we're doing this for our own thing and just we just need to make more of an effort to give that space and give like love and care and grace and, you know, really bigger ourselves up.
Nine and eight soda is like, you know, I can't be around this dude right now. You're on one, but in a way that can grow in invaluable. This is one thing I used to do earlier. You know, maybe little milestones, I didn't do it regularly and I haven't done it in a while. I have like a chain on right now. I used to go to whenever I would do a certain number of episodes or I had like a really big milestone, I'd buy myself something like, but I would get myself like one of these like small like a ring or something. So at one point I was walking around like Thanos.
I had like the wildlife. My girl said, why you got your hands out like your cow, Dracula? I was like, it's to show off the rings.
She's like, you look like. So yeah, I was doing that. That's what I was doing. That's what I celebrate.
So I'm going to move into this feature. You're currently featured in Luminosity, a Detroit art gathering showcasing along or showing a side alongside artists that you admire. What does it mean to have your work held in that kind of company, especially given your Detroit roots?
Christopher Batten: So, so for starters, you know, I've been, I've been going from Detroit, you know, for, for this, you know, 10 years and I think at the time, I mean, I was just focused on making work and just trying to make the best or the deepest impact that I can make or the most positive impact that I can make on my community and on my family, on my students at the time, you know, friends. And when I got the call that I would be included in this, I was just blown away because I guess I didn't realize that I actually had made an impact, you know, I didn't, I didn't realize that I was just doing me, you know, and but then to have the opportunity to be on the walls with, you know, people like Al Loving or Huey Lee Smith, you know, these, these artists that, well, at least in the case of Huey Lee Smith, you know, passed away a long time ago, but they were really the kind of forerunners of African American expression in this country, you know, let alone in Detroit, you know, because he spent some time, you know, working there, but to kind of be attached to that legacy, I mean, it's just unbelievable, like to have my work, like literally on the wall, the next, next to some of these people. And then, you know, when I look at people that I consider to be contemporary heroes, I mean, these are my contemporaries, but I look up to them like Jamia Richmond Edwards is in that exhibition or Rasshawn Rucker or Tyline Sawyer and Sidney James, like to be on the wall even with him is, I mean, it's just an unbelievable honor. And yeah, you know, that's also something that I need to celebrate,
Rob Lee: you know, to Jamia, I had her on the podcast, she's, she's, she's dope.
Christopher Batten: Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, it's, it's, it's a remarkable thing and it's kind of unbelievable, like, you know, to see like my work next to and out loving is like, I just can't believe it, you know. And so, yeah, it's, it's, I'm, I just feel fortunate enough to be again, you know, included in that show. And, you know, it's another indication that I'm, that I'm trying to do, you know, what my spirit is telling me to do, which is, you know, just make a positive impact and contribute to, to, you know, society the best way I can.
Rob Lee: So, so, yeah, so, and thank you for, because I mean, it is one of those things where you want to acknowledge those, those wins and being up there and it's like, damn, I did that. Oh, I was there, I was involved. It's like, I love there, we're, I'm next to their work.
This is amazing. And if I think one of the other things that I see is sort of this, this arc, this trajectory you've shown work across the country from Cranbrook to Creative Alliance here in Baltimore, what does success or growth look like for you now? It has that vision shifted in, in recent years, because, you know, you, you've highlighted a few recent like kind of wins and you're gonna start giving that grace to yourself. So what does success look like for you?
Christopher Batten: So that's, that's something I've been, been thinking about a lot lately and something I've been discussing with my partner as well, just to have like an outside view on that. But so I think, how can I, so I, success used to look to me like popularity. I think there are some artists out there that, and this is not a knock, because you know, as it, as it starts storming outside, but this isn't a knock. But there are artists, I think that are in positions where everything they make, regardless of how impactful it is or how good it is, is perceived as being a masterpiece, because they are in the position that they're in, because they have the popularity that they have. And I used to kind of think that was success, but I don't know if that's what I want. Like, I don't know if I want to be in a position where everything I make is perceived by the people around me as being good, because it's like, that doesn't seem like a situation that can do, we sit to growth for me.
Rob Lee: It's bias or this belief that, well, maybe talking about a little bit earlier, right, before we got started, like, if someone is making, like, work this up a certain degree, then it's just like, well, that album wasn't as good as that next one. This ain't, you know, and it creates this sort of like false idea. It's like, well, I made this. Well, this wasn't as good or, well, this needs to be better or and so on. It's like, who's determining that?
That's not even with the bacon. And, you know, like, when people ask me, what's your favorite episode? I was like, the next one? Or all of them are my favorites to sound hokey or what have, because I think it's like, not a particularly great question. I think that there's not a lot of depth in it. Now, yeah, it's like, are there things that stick out to you about this?
That's actually where some depth is at. Or, you know, let's say everyone's work is great. I always frame it like that everyone's work is beautiful.
It's really great. You took all the time. You should make all the money from it. What about this work sticks out to you in within the process, within the making of it, within sort of the remaking of it? Let's get into the minutiae of it. That's lost when it has this idea that everything is a masterpiece. There's no depth in conversation there, I think. We're just going to... Yeah. Yeah.
Christopher Batten: And, yeah, I reached the point where I think success for me is being in a position where I'm challenging myself to learn from mistakes as I make them. And so, and to put myself in positions where I'm bold enough to try new things that... To put me in a place where I might make a mistake or might do something terrible.
Because I feel like that's the best way to grow. And I think another aspect of success for me that I started to think about is, again, the impact that I'm having on my students. That's successful to me.
That's more immediate than, I don't know, somebody somewhere thinking, this piece that I made is super amazing because I, this now famous artist, made it. I don't know. That's not what I want. I think I used to want that. And I think that's, again, like a common want or desire as far as modern society goes. I think that happens, but I'm starting to see that, for me, that's not where it's at.
Rob Lee: There's a novelty to that as well, where it's like, how many watches can you have? How many solo shows can you have? And it's not to diminish anyone that wants that, but it's the J. Cole thing. I remember this interview he did on Breakfast Club, maybe. And he was asking, what do you want from this? And you want all the money, now I want the money. Do you want this? Do you want sales? You want to go platinum? Now I want that. I want the love. You know, it's a love. I can't run out of.
And I think we always have these weird lines and these timelines that are associated with it and these validation markers that are external more often than not. Well, you know, this person made this from their last show, and they had this many people come out. Happy for them.
This person got this many downloads. That's wonderful. But I'm doing something different.
And if I get that, that's great. And I'm saying that as a reminder to myself as well, because, sure, you see the big splashy numbers and you start smelling your own. You start smelling your own.
You're like, oh, man, I'm great. And there are a lot of folks who, if I'm being somewhat controversial here, who thought that their work was really popping because they were made some really big sales maybe in 2020. And then that market's kind of dried up a bit. And maybe you're working with really cool and really good and all of that different stuff. But there was different stimulants and different things within that industry. So look at the resales. Some of these resales look crazy. It's like one for $300,000.
It's going for $10,000 now. Yeah. Yeah. Change the quality of the work. It's all still masterpieces. It's just like there's these other variables that play in. That's right.
So you have something else that goes along in there as hokey as that might sound in the big, we all played within the economy. We all need a roof over here, especially right now. That's right. And you know, we all can't have our meals prepared for us. But it is a thing. And I struggle with it all the time and trying to justify what I'm doing, what I'm doing, being worthwhile, being worth being funded and so on. And I know that artists run into this all the time of the imposter syndrome and so on. And I think it sounds corny and it sounds gauche and sounds maybe ill-informed, but it's just noise. It's noise. Yeah. Yeah.
Christopher Batten: Yeah. I think I'm finally getting to a point where I'm starting to recognize that.
Rob Lee: Put the noise canceling headphones on. I love it. Right. So I got two more real questions for you before I get into these rapid fire ones. And this next one, this is a quote. I follow these interesting quotes that really dive into the psyche of creative and artistic folk. And Orson Welles has quoted, the absence of limitation is the enemy of art. What is your relationship with limitations or parameters within your work? Is it a friend or is it a foe?
Christopher Batten: I would say it's become a friend. I used to look at it as a foe. And yeah, again, that wasn't very conducive to growth. But I think it's a friend. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't want to struggle 24, 7, 365 now. You want to have some times where you're up. But I think struggle is necessary, whether it's having artist blocks or what I'm going through now that lack of balance between teaching and making and having the energy to make.
And I think you need some things to contest with sometimes to kind of wake you up. Like, all those hundreds of knows I got over the past four years really motivated me to keep trying. I mean, there was a period where it motivated me to stop trying. But yeah, just kind of overcoming that gave me a lot of strength. It made me stronger going through that. And I think it's necessary. It's the necessary evil, if you will.
Rob Lee: I agree. And I think of, that was sharing with you before we got started, the limitation sometimes in terms of resources. Like, solopreneur, one man show, the whole thing, right?
And maybe not having the funding, maybe not having these different pieces that, I think you're able to be much like a producer and film at a certain stage. I got to get really creative with how we do this. You don't want to screw anyone over. You don't want to cut corners. But it's like, I'm still going to accomplish the thing and accomplish the goals that I have. But maybe I'm going to do it in a more optimized way. Maybe it's sort of this number of episodes, but still covering these things and still giving the not a lesser version of it.
And also having sort of parameters that I'm playing with it. I don't put this behind the paywalls, I was sharing. I don't ask people to join my community, which really is just, you're signing up for me to give you the full podcast versus, you know, the trimmed down version of the commercials on it. It's silly what the thing is. I just try to give it raw and what the thing is. And what comes with it is what I'm choosing, what I'm accepting. But I think those limitations, they can be very helpful to help you create and help you think through it.
So like, when I had, when I did all those interviews back in 2022, the 300 plus, in that year, it was just like, I'm doing a lot. And this is what I would do with no funding at that point. And this is what I would just do. So I already have that banked up. So now when I get to like, all right, you're gonna be do about 75, maybe 100, something like that. I already had that, you know, baked in. I already know what I'm doing. I'm already good. So it's just like, I can work within these parameters. Am I comfortable working with it?
Am I having an argument with my friend right now? That's the way I'm kind of looking at these limitations. Yeah. So I got this one last real question. And this is the nice, you know, culmination.
So you're balancing multiple roles, teacher, artist, mentor, real life. You know, you got to, you got to, you you don't even have the bucket for the Christmas bucket. You know, you got these other things, they may, you know, still need to have your own bucket. This is like, look, I got to, you know, got to work this jab today. I got to do some low kicks, things of that nature, right? How do you protect your creative energy or reset when you're, you're running low? Because it's not an endless, you know, bucket, if you will.
Christopher Batten: Yeah. So one of the, one of the things that I've gotten back to doing, and I kind of stopped, which I think further fueled this like lack of balance that, that I've been experiencing. These past couple of years, but one of the things I started doing again, and this was a suggestion of my graduate school director, my teacher in grad school. She used to always encourage us to, you know, when we were having a hard time coming up with things or just finding time for ourselves, she would always suggest going to shows, going to look at art. Or going to the museum or, so I've been, I've been doing that more often, getting back to doing that. And then also something that I, that had kind of fallen by the wayside for me is listening to music.
And so I've been really getting back into spending my CDs and yes, I still have a CD player and play my CDs. And, you know, I've really been getting back into that and it's been helping. Oh, it's been giving me, it's been giving me that, that time to kind of refuel and, and realize that, you know, if I don't pour into myself, I definitely can't pour into anybody else.
You know, I'll be a terrible mentor if I, you know, don't take my own advice, you know. So yeah, I've just been, I've been doing that a lot lately, but it took a while for me to get kind of back into those patterns. But I think, you know, I'm there now and I'm definitely planning on staying for a long time.
Rob Lee: So that first part, thank you for sharing that the first part there sounded like what they talk about. And was it the artist way? Oh, yeah, yeah. Take yourself a little, those creative dates, those artist dates. And before I move into the rapid fire, I try to do a version of it and it's kind of getting away from the doldrums, the same routine.
I think routine for me, while it can be cool, like having structure, but I'm realizing a version of control and control running unchecked. And it's just like, I'm going today, I know on this, it's like, and maybe this is going to make it real black in, you know, both in Aquarius, but Michael Jordan in a bot in one of his bios and a dialogue about his, his way on looking at time. He had talked about like, look, I can't worry about Wednesday when it's Monday.
He has days left. And it's a good, it's like being this sort of moment right here. And just trying to appreciate it. So like earlier, when I got my facial and I got the sports massage, I was trying to enjoy and soak and just really be involved in that moment versus, well, I got this interview later. I got to do this later.
I got to do that later. And it's like, you're not enjoying it. You're not even experiencing it. And, and also this, just the notion of doing something nice and kind for myself sitting here with like muscle spasms, like, you need to see, like, get that massage, my guy in, and maybe that's a piece of it too.
Which is like, look, I'm going to do the full dark Henry. I'm going to put, you know, I got a court of a mill to put towards my body, but I can put something towards my body that makes me feel better. And it's associated with just me treating myself good, because ultimately, I still have to do these things. If I'm sitting here and my back is sore, I'm tired or whatever. I'm not as you, as you were touching on it.
If I'm not putting it into myself and taking my own advice, who am I to ask people about their work? And I'm sitting here like, yeah, the other thing about it is like, yo, come on, bro, like settle down, just chain smoking. It will be wild. So we got that. We're, we're living life, black men. So I want to move into these rapid fire questions.
I got three of them for you. And these are, don't overthink these. I was going to say that. So here's the first one. What is something about Detroit that has always stayed with you no matter where you are, no matter where you visit?
Christopher Batten: Just, I would say pride. That's, that's not the like, Detroiters. We have a lot of pride in where, where we come from. And just that idea of, of maintaining that pride wherever you go, or wherever you're from, you know, I think that's something that, that's definitely stuck with me. Like, I mean, even my students will tell me, like, we know you from Detroit, because I always, I mean, I always talk about Detroit. Like I'm, I'm proud of where I come from, though I'm also proud of living here, you know, and representing Baltimore, but, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm proud of where I come from. And I encourage my students to talk about Baltimore
Rob Lee: as much as I talk about Detroit, you know, that's great. What is one lesson from your, your years in martial arts that shows up maybe in how you approach art or even teaching?
Christopher Batten: So one of the things, and I talk about this a lot, but something that, that sticks in and I'm, I learn more and more relative to this lesson as I get older. But, you know, I always talk about how my dad would, would say, you got to, you got to stop being afraid to get hit.
And I could never understand what he was saying. Like, why would somebody want to get hit, you know? And, but as I get older, I understand it's like, that's, part of the game. If you're going to engage, you're going to get hit.
And so there are times where, you know, this happens more in college, but, you know, where some of my students might approach me and say, well, you know, I don't necessarily agree with the way you're teaching this or, you know, something like that. And you have to be able to kind of take those hits and, and just not be afraid. Like not be afraid because you're going to get hit. So you might will just
Rob Lee: fight, you know, it's that thing like, it's almost the cost of doing business in some ways. It's just like, well, you push yourself out there. So there is a possibility that this might not work out for you, or it's not really well, but it is the, your, your, it's the, it's the risk of, of doing it, you know, and I like that.
Cause I think often we miss it. Like I, I always have this preset of, I'm probably going to fail at this, right? And it's like, I need to switch it a little bit of, this is probably going to go well.
This could go well. You know, you could dodge that punch. You're not going to get, that's where my psyche is at at times. And you're not a punching bag So this is the last one. This is one that's freaked out some people. If you lost your ability to make art or to teach art tomorrow, what path do you think you thrive in? Oh, wow. Yeah.
Christopher Batten: That does, that does freak me out. That scares me a little bit, but Santa snaps.
Rob Lee: You got nothing. My ability.
Christopher Batten: That's a really good question. I think as weird as it is, as weird as this sounds, and you know, I never want to be in a situation where this happens, but I think I could be a really good motivational speaker if, if something like that happened because, and I know that might sound kind of cheesy, but you, you're going to have no choice but to move on. Yeah, I would have no choice.
I would be presented with no other option but to, but to keep living. And I think I could be a good motivational speaker in terms of getting, trying to get people to understand that you might lose a lot of things, but there's still something to be happy about in your life and you just got to, you just got to search for it. And I think for me, I have some great friends. I have amazing family around me and I'm fortunate in that.
And I think I would just become better at appreciating that and, you know, possibly helping other people appreciate that as well. So that's what I think, but, you know, who knows?
Rob Lee: I think it works. I think this is going to sound ridiculous, but I thought about it as you were describing it. I think it would be a terrible henchman. I think that's what my vocation would be. I think for myself and it's like, yo, Rob, knuckles, get over there, do this, grab, seize him. I'm like, I don't think I want to do that. I'll get fired. I think I'm all set.
But yeah, that's, that's, that's, yeah, I don't have a, I don't have a few shots out of podcasting. So that's pretty much it for the day. I think we've covered a lot of ground. We caught up, got some insights. So there's two things I want to do as we close out here. One, I want to thank you for braving the rain with me in the thunder. It looks like the sun's back out. And two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners any details, social media, website, anything that you have going on in your universe. The floor is yours.
Christopher Batten: Yes. So my website is www.cbatten .com. That's C-B-A-T-T-E-N .com. I am at C Batten Art on Instagram. And other than that, I'm just going to be posting a lot or at least that's my plan when I get to Virginia Center for the Creative Arts. And hopefully you all will see some good stuff coming out and, and or see me learning from some bad stuff that I'm making too.
So, so yeah, that's all I would say. And it's, you know, it's definitely been an honor again, you know, to be, be on the podcast again. And yeah, you know, I just appreciate you and I appreciate the questions. Like, you know, I'll still be thinking about these even after the show. So really, really good question.
Rob Lee: I want to again thank Christopher Batten for coming back onto the podcast, running it back with me. And for Christopher, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look forward.
