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Truth In This Art (Sound)
Only a couple months no longer. No new. I think I recognize.
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Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth and as art, your source of conversations connecting arts, culture and community. These are stories that matter. And I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I'm excited to welcome my next guest on to the podcast. She is a Salvadoran American interdisciplinary artist based in Maryland. Her work explores memory, loss and heritage, creating ephemeral archives from intangible lost memories through labor and abstraction, blending traditional and industrial techniques where the repetitive making process itself becomes a reflection.
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Rob Lee
Please welcome to the podcast Kiara-Maribel Rivera Welcome to the podcast.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Hi everyone. My name is Kiara-Maribel Rivera I am a Salvadoran American artist and I work across very different, various different mediums, primarily between sculpture and textiles. And the focus of my practice, I would say, is, is an investigation of what an archive is. So, like, across the board, I'm considering like, what does an archive look like or what does it mean across a historical lens, or what does it mean across a government lens?
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And as well as like on a personal level and what happens if there is an absence of that?
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Rob Lee
Yeah, we're definitely going to dive into to that a bit further. Thank you for the the intro. And I must say I appreciate here's the bit. I must say I appreciate you wearing your glasses. As a fellow bespectacled individual, I always like to point out when my people are wearing their glasses, often we see the Lasix, and often we see the contents.
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Rob Lee
And I know for eyes, please, I.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I enjoy the glasses. Honestly. They're they're a sense of passion. They're they're, an accessory. You got to keep them.
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Rob Lee
That's great. That's great. So let's see. So like archive, right. And, you know, I definitely relate to this, this notion of an archive. I kind of back doored into it. In many ways this podcast is an archive. It's just capturing moments in time. I struggled initially with that concept. I wasn't setting out like, yeah, I'm going to document everything.
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Rob Lee
It's just like, like I have conversations with people. It's a time, it's a place, and so on. So where for you did the the notion of the concept of like looking to add an archive as a particular, as a potential avenue for you to pursue?
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So a kind of sparked an interest in me when, so when I was little, I was always doing little arts and craft activities. But one time I got into scrapbooking. And so I'm going through like my old, like photo albums, and suddenly something was clicking where I'm like, oh, wait a minute, these are just pictures of myself in here.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And at the time, I was just doing like a baby album of just photos of me. But one day I, like, pulled my mom to the side and I was like, hey, like, where are your pictures? Like, I haven't seen pictures of you or my father. Anyone like when they were younger? Like, it feels like it was just kind of like from where I was.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And then on, and simply she was just like, either we did not have access to them because they both had immigrated and they're back home, or that they were just completely gone because they were badly damaged or even like, eradicated. So that kind of started stirring a pot start sort of stirring the pot for me where I was like,
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
It felt like I didn't have access to a certain part of my history, not seeing them on. And little did I notice that my mom was constantly archiving my life. And so it started with, like, a bunch of pictures of myself. But then it took on different forms. So when I was in school, she kept every single word I got, like even from like second grade, where it might just be like, I had perfect attendance in January.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
We still have it. She kept that in a journal and then it was also report cards, and my report cards dated as far back as to kindergarten. Not even kindergarten, pre-K, pre-K. And I remember that one because it had said, Chiara is good at numbers. She can count from 1 to 100, but she struggles with her P's and her cuz.
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Rob Lee
Okay, let's. Know that's that. Here's the thing with that. Right. And I and I definitely want to follow up on that a little bit deeper because the, the family and the parent connection, that's a, that's a piece there worth noting. And when we're really I'm talking about. But what I, one of the things she had mentioned as far as like having things documented, I know here at home.
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Rob Lee
Right. For me, I, I can remember so I'm 40 now and I remember when it probably 2000. So I was 23 years ago. I remember looking at my school ID, and I saw my dad's like, ID from when he was like 17, and he went to the military like early lied about his age. I looked identical to him.
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Rob Lee
And it's not many pictures of him when he's young. So I'm like, where's the rest of it? Or even my mom, which is a bit more sort of checkered because she was adopted and sort of a lot of that stuff was missing. So it's like, yeah, I got like, mom from like 20 when she was 22. Now it's like, what happened to the previous like two decades?
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Rob Lee
And I think like there's so much story there. And one of the other things that I think of the report cards and the perfect attendance, I'm a perfect attendance guy. Yeah, I had this story going for multiple years. I have a brother who's like a year younger than me, and it's like, you don't have any of this. Only I do, only I have the perfect attendance.
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Rob Lee
But my my family kept those things and we used to just look at it. And I think perhaps in a way, maybe those sorts of awards didn't exist, or maybe due to some level of sort of volatility of these weren't important things to hold on to. I don't have any of that stuff now. I have like my degree, my diploma, and I have 20, almost 20 years worth of conversations and podcasts and so on.
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Rob Lee
As far as an archive of maybe my voice changing over the years, I started when I was 24, you know, but, and maybe my perspective as well. But it's something there. But I think some of those lessons perhaps come from, earlier in our experience, earlier in our life, even sometimes before us, like with our parents. So, yeah, I'm reading about sort of your parents, having an impact on your work.
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Rob Lee
There's the immigration component. There is, oh. Salvador's civil war is a piece that's in there. And sort of their experience work, work in these sort of high labor jobs. So can you share a bit of that and how it kind of helped shape your perspective?
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So to kind of give some context, like my parents are born in the early 70s, Salvadoran civil War happened and the 80s, and they later immigrated to America in the 90s. So, like, this kind of sets up like the three decades of their life. Had they not come to America, I wouldn't be here today because they met here in the DMV.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And that's kind of how like my story starts. And so, I'm the first American born in the family. I least on my father's side, which is a side I mostly grew up on. And there was always this, like, level of estrangement because I didn't necessarily know or meet my family members. And the times I had gone to Salvador when I was younger was between the ages of like one and three.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
From there, like, it's just like I only knew their voices because, as a child of immigrants who are usually married to the phone because you have to use the, the calling cards and if that, that dictates how much time you had. Some companies are better than other ones. You could get a little bit extra minutes, but if you if you were having a good conversation, you have to run back and get in others.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So, I it was mostly seeing my parents, like, interact with their family through phone calls. And there was also this exchange of pictures as well. So, I would receive pictures of my family members on the back. It would be a day that they took the picture. It would say, this is your cousin. This is her name.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
This is a picture for you. Simple as that. And I guess my parents were doing the same thing. Because when I went back to Salvador or like, fairly recently, now, when I'm older and I'm asked to, like, look at photographs, I've realized they also had pictures of me as a kid that I hadn't even seen before.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Like they had those. Yeah. Like it was like limited edition. They had different ones versus the ones I had at home. And so it was also like this exchange that I really didn't know what was happening. I just knew there were like there was snapping a photo for the family.
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Rob Lee
It it's the real life equivalent when almost when you're, like, tagged in a picture and you're like, I didn't know I was in that or even because I like sports or like baseball a lot, and I collect baseball cards. It's just like, I got this one, I got this one. It's like wild exclusive. This is one one.
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Rob Lee
You only have this and you're like, that's me though.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Yeah. I was like, wait a minute. Like, I don't remember this at all. Like, I don't even know where I was in this. But I was like, I, I definitely had to take a scan of it and just take it with me. But my like, experience of them or like, memories of them have always been working. They were soon as they immigrated here, they were trying to establish themselves, and get kind of their foot on the ground.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so my father is a landscaper and my mother is a housekeeper, and I've always just constantly see them working, or they usually brought me to work sometimes, and so my I understood this like pressure of, like the labor in general. And they usually were telling me as being like the first born American, I will have different opportunities and that, I wouldn't have to do what they do in the sense the.
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Rob Lee
It's interesting. It's not the same, obviously. That experience is very much your experience. It's a unique experience. But then I think about it in this way. My my dad was a landscaper. My mom has work in house cleaning, keeping for a very, very long time. And one of the things that they instilled in me, and they're both in there, my mom is 60, my dad is 70.
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Rob Lee
You know, it's just like, kind of kind of winding down a little bit in terms of this, this sort of work. But one of the things they instilled in me is ingrained in how I approach what I do with this. And I was sharing earlier sort of the day job stuff before we got started. I was just the hard work putting that stuff in, and it's like, you know, it was always this thing of like, junior, you get your education, don't do all of this stuff.
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Rob Lee
And I was like, word really? Don't work hard now do both, you know, show up, be there. But you don't want to do this at the end of the day. And it's something that stuck with me. And I remember, more with my dad and my mom because I'm a I'm 64. For context, you can't really notice it, but I'm a big dude, right?
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Rob Lee
So my my dad doing these landscaping things, he's like, all right, you're tall. Grab this branch, you're working for the summer. And I was like, oh, I really don't want to do this now.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I definitely feel that, my mom used to drag me to her job all the time, and that meant going to these houses where, like, I can only imagine, like, ever obtaining what they had. And it was always strange, like, I first, when I was there, she would always have me bring a book, and she was like, absolutely.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Don't touch anything. At a very early age. And then, like, the older I got, I soon started helping her. There was some houses. I did have kids, and, it was all there was also, like, a strange dynamic to be like, oh, like, let's play. But also, I have to fold your laundry before I play with you.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so, like these, it was always in the back of my head. And to this day, like, my parents both still work and I still help both of them. So if I have some free time, I do help my mom at some of these houses still. But, that's kind of where, like, the need to work with my hands came.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Yeah. It was something that I was just like, I don't understand how to do something without, like, fully like, engaging with it.
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Rob Lee
Yeah, that that makes sense. The thing and I'm going to move into this next question. As I was queuing up education a little bit, there. Yeah. That, you know, I think some of those lessons that we get, we don't even know if they're lessons at the time. Like, you know, I'm always like for my dad, he would always find a way to finesse.
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Rob Lee
And I was just like, how are you on the clock? You're not even in your yet because he had like a, a hoagie route. It's like street sweep and things of that nature. And I remember my first job. It was some of that awkwardness, too. But my first job was a janitor job that my dad had the second job, and he and my brother and I, my younger brother.
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Rob Lee
So, you know, I got it first. And my younger brother came a year later. We were, working as janitors, and I, with my first job was cleaning bathrooms. And people are really weird to, quote unquote, the help. And, and this is unrelated, but I think it gives context in terms of the history of doing all of this.
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Rob Lee
Right. I ended up coming back to that same job as a manager later in like a manager for the actual job. And people like, I think I know. Yes, I know, no, not at all. No idea. Because I remember how crappy they were to me. But the the opportunity, right? There was a guy that was a janitor that was there.
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Rob Lee
And I just remember I just like pointing to the side because he's younger. Dude. I was like, hey, man, I like that shirt. Is that an anime shirt? You're in an anime, right? And we started chopping it up and we became friends. And I was like, man, don't don't do this work right now, bro. And he ended up doing a podcast with me for the better part of like 5 or 6 years.
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Rob Lee
He's been a friend of mine for a long time at this point, but it came from sort of me working there in this sort of weird job, doing a weird time, and then kind of like leaning into someone who at times, from a labor perspective, is considered maybe invisible, and actually talking to the person like a human.
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Rob Lee
And it's like, yeah, we have some stuff in common, man, I see that. I know, like you, you Hakusho I know that.
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Definitely.
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Rob Lee
And and during that time, while I was like a janitor working there, I was I was in school. I was in, Morgan State University and kind of wrapping, wrapping up and, you know, just doing a lot of different things. And I read that you have sort of a different school situation. So give us a little bit of a background on your education and sort of your favorite memory during that time that may have been integral to your experience as an artist?
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Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Yeah. So I went to the school of the Art Institute of Chicago. It was very like, it was a very pivotal moment in my experience, in the sense that I did not know what I was doing. I kind of felt like, here are the cards that you're dealt. This is what you're working with now. And that was solely off the fact that I am first generation.
00;17;31;03 - 00;17;56;06
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So I didn't know how to navigate college. And outside of that, I didn't know what I wanted to study. And it wasn't until, like, my high school art teacher had help me with an application to go to the school. Because he went there for his, graduate program. And I missed the merit scholarship deadline by like one day.
00;17;56;09 - 00;18;20;17
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so he ends up calling the phone, he calls admissions, and he's like, I have a student. I'm an alumni. Can we help consider her for this merit scholarship? And soon later, I did get an acceptance from the school. And at first I had all these nerves. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like miles away from all my family and everything I know.
00;18;20;20 - 00;18;41;23
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Also, like, I don't even know how I'm going to pay for it. So I'm like going down this rabbit hole and my parents are like, we already signed the check. Like your your going. And the first time I stepped foot in Chicago was the day I was moving into the dorms. So it was all kind of cold turkey.
00;18;41;25 - 00;19;08;00
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And now going to an art school, there was like this different learning curve because I had met multiple students who are speaking just like fool jargon, just like all these words, I don't know, everything. And I didn't even know how to keep up or like how they were, thinking and like, in an almost abstract way.
00;19;08;02 - 00;19;31;01
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so my first semester was like, really rocky because I had signed up for classes like, I thought I was going to go into study ceramics because that's all I did throughout high school. And somehow and from now, I know that ceramics classes are always going to be full in college. Like anytime I go, I work at a university right now.
00;19;31;01 - 00;19;49;12
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
They're always full ceramics, full, never have a spot unless like, you're like in your like second year and you can maybe have a chance to, sign up for earlier. But I didn't get that. I ended up in this Intro to Business class.
00;19;49;15 - 00;20;14;04
Rob Lee
And so what I what I heard there is having that that support, like, you know, the, having, it was an advisor kind of do the like, I'm going to do this legacy, pull this legacy card real quick like this student, you know, she's great. You need to, like, get in, you know, before you get lost. And it ended up working out ultimately.
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Rob Lee
But initially it was this sort of like cultural shock, this, this real big shift of, hey, I'm, I'm in Chicago, I'm moving in today and kind of like adapting really, really quick to like, a lot. In many ways it feels like when you start a new job, it's like, I don't know any of this stuff yet. I don't really need this jargon.
00;20;35;14 - 00;20;56;15
Rob Lee
But then you're here, though, and having sort of the philosophy component, the fiber component, and kind of learning about how, you know, ceramics works a little bit and it's it's almost like you're, you know, prepping because you're in, you know, working in a college sort of space now, which I'm sure you look at. It was like, oh, you silly person, why did you take so long?
00;20;56;17 - 00;21;13;29
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I do, I do, and I understand it because I am also at ball when it comes to like something like procrastination. Like I got to be honest and that and then I like look at students and I'm like, oh, if you only like plan this out a little bit better, but who am I to talk to you?
00;21;14;00 - 00;21;38;25
Rob Lee
Yeah. So I want to talk about your work a bit, and I want to move into to that area. And, and part of it, you know, and letting, letting the guest cook and you being the guessing you were cooking, you kind of laid the foundation of using your hands. And so, you know, having sort of your practice includes sort of, you know, using text, tactile or repetitive work and to explore memory and seeing objects as vessels of reflection.
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Rob Lee
Could you describe your making process, and techniques that and how it helps you uncovered like sort of these unique insights around trauma, loss, even memory, sort of like how your, how you work ultimately.
00;21;55;03 - 00;22;28;01
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So the processes I work with primarily, weavings is heavily numbers based. So there is a certain way to do this. And then somehow you end up doing over a thousand knots before you can ever start actually making a textile. And something like casting as well. It's all I feel like most of my process, or the process I choose are so tedious where you gotta make sure your eyes are dotted and your t's are crossed.
00;22;28;01 - 00;22;50;25
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Like there's no, like, room for error, or else, like you're going to have to start over. Like there's no way you can just kind of put a Band-Aid on it in between and hope that it's great. Like, if it doesn't work the first time, you're going to have to start over. And so I did processes like cast, bronze casting and glass casting.
00;22;50;28 - 00;23;14;18
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I've always also done like a bit of, like, slip casting. So these are also like ways that I enjoyed doing routine. Like I'm someone who's heavily loves, like doing the same thing over and again. It makes things a lot more easier in a sense where like once you do a lot like you pick it up as you go.
00;23;14;21 - 00;23;35;23
Rob Lee
I mean, it's it's something about like, when I do this set up. Right. The hardest part for me and any of the process here, and I say that with the inverted commas in quotes, is like coming up with the questions, like spending time doing that, like setting up the audio, doing the interview, setting up for the conversation.
00;23;35;26 - 00;23;57;10
Rob Lee
I know how to do that. That is sort of the repetition. I've done almost 900 of these interviews, and you artist types. But, but but I love you guys at the same time and, you know, it, it's it's something I'm very familiar with that even if I wasn't in sort of my home studio or normal setup, I like I've recorded, I've done interviews on boats before, like just going through it.
00;23;57;10 - 00;24;17;08
Rob Lee
It's like, I don't know how to swim either. So I was just like, this is where it ends. This is, this is. So I drown on this episode and it's it's all over or doing it in sort of like uncommon and unfamiliar places. And because I trust and part of it, the repetition, the repetition of it, it's just like this is just the same.
00;24;17;08 - 00;24;44;18
Rob Lee
What makes it similar. So talk a bit about why why repetition and and and how that really connects across. Because I see that you're like working with various materials. So I would imagine each material has its own challenge. But how is it that being rooted in like a practice that has repetition along it like helps you when you run into like, all right, I'm working with this this day and working with this, this day.
00;24;44;19 - 00;24;46;22
Rob Lee
How does that really?
00;24;46;25 - 00;25;14;09
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
It's definitely like a, like a muscle memory thing. And, like, you could say something similar to, like, clay where, like, if you press it, it remembers it. And so working with these materials like as far like past setup, it's really kind of just embracing that you're just already in it, with like a loom, you're basically operating that, machine.
00;25;14;09 - 00;25;38;28
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so I need to know, like, what steps am I taking? How do I remember what pedals in my processing in order to get like this design I want, or like, where do I need to switch certain things if I'd have a vision for it? In terms of, like, metal or glass, really, it was more of like trusting that process.
00;25;39;00 - 00;26;07;19
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
When I got into casting, I had all these textiles I had, and luckily they were made out of cotton. So, like, there is no, worry about it being burned and it's off gassing. Something like it will just burn and singe away. So at some point I'm like, let's just set it on fire. So I am dipping my, weavings and slip and turning it into porcelain.
00;26;07;19 - 00;26;28;16
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I'm basically just pouring glass on top of it just to see, like, what it does. And I know I took so many hours to just make that textile, but I want to see this through and see what it does. And somehow that textile still survives in like a form.
00;26;28;18 - 00;26;43;17
Rob Lee
And so in it that that curiosity kind of drives that it's like, I know what I put into this. I know what it's like if I have to remake this, like you said, there was no mistakes. You know, I know what I have to put. It's like, I gotta get ready for these hours. I screw it up.
00;26;43;20 - 00;27;04;09
Rob Lee
But I think in maybe trying something that's a little risky out of curiosity, it's like, oh, I've added a new skill here, which and I say this from the standpoint of, at a point and doing this, I think I was doing like almost an interview a day at one point. And like I said, I have a different data.
00;27;04;11 - 00;27;18;10
Rob Lee
And sometimes I'm going through the questions and I pride myself. I'm trying to have unique questions and so on, and not just ask every person the same question. It was one, week that I remember that sticks out. And I mentioned it that did 18 interviews in a week. It was six.
00;27;18;11 - 00;27;18;25
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Oh.
00;27;18;27 - 00;27;40;14
Rob Lee
Okay. And, you know, so these were two different sort of setups. One was like one day I was out of that 18 in a week. That was just six interviews. And I was like, I gotta keep these in order. And then another one where it's just like 18 and, you know, naturally you had to take these breaks. When I'm writing the questions, it's just like, all right, let me go back, I got these I don't want to duplicate questions.
00;27;40;14 - 00;28;06;08
Rob Lee
I might tweak, but I want to keep it fresh and original. But you need something. I guess I call it a creative call, if you will, to keep that energy kind of kind of playing. So it's like I need to consume something. Let me listen to an audiobook. Let me get some insights from here. When you're working in, in the sort of, repetitive sort of sort of way that I would imagine very time intensive.
00;28;06;10 - 00;28;15;01
Rob Lee
How how do you sort of like, break it up, you know, in that because you're not just sitting there like plugged in, you know, strapped in the entire time?
00;28;15;03 - 00;28;48;11
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Honestly, kind of depends if I do or don't have a timeline. When I was in this, digital loom residency in Ohio, I knew I had two weeks, and I decided that I wanted to prepare my own warp, which are like the vertical strands, on a loom when you're making a textile. I chose to make my own, which meant that they told me realistically, it takes about 1 or 3 days to even prepare it.
00;28;48;13 - 00;29;15;19
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So that's already three days into my 14 days of my stay to make anything. So with that time I took the first two days like once they showed me what I needed to do, I immediately was like all right, I'm on a schedule. I want to get these boxes checked off. That meant, warping the yarn for about, 12ft.
00;29;15;22 - 00;29;52;17
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And it's about like, let's say about four feet wide. Yeah. And I did that one day. The next day they were like, you have to basically tie knots. And with a little, there's over 1000 knots. So that took me about the day. And there is that that, like, Sara stand them, that you need and, like, for me, I'm constantly listening to something like, I tell people all the time, I carry almost three types of headphones with me all the time.
00;29;52;19 - 00;30;13;00
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I have a Bluetooth pair, I have a over the ear and I have it in ear. And it's also to communicate like what kind of level of, focus, whether or not like, I want to be distracted or I just don't want to talk at once. So even that is like a whole different sensation where I'm like, okay, let me lock in and use a noise canceling.
00;30;13;00 - 00;30;26;16
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Or I'm like, actually, like I'm done with the noise canceling. I'm just in a blast. Music out loud. But, it makes a world of a difference to thing even like to know, like what device you're listening to. Something.
00;30;26;18 - 00;30;47;06
Rob Lee
No, that's that's that's dope. I have it's funny you mentioned it. I have, I just took these out. I had took my AirPods out. I have three different pairs of AirPods on me at a given time, especially as I was saying, I go to go to DC or if even if I go to Philly, it's been a while, but I have like the only ear noise canceling, like, you know, AirPods Max.
00;30;47;06 - 00;31;15;20
Rob Lee
I've almost gotten to hit by a car multiple times because I'm like, I can't hear anything else. Like, these are effective. Not that not an Ed sponsor. Me. And then I have like, the two regular sort of standard, pros. And I like being plugged in, you know, like, especially if, I'm in audiobook mode or, you know, or if I'm just listening to, like, classical music or some sort of instrumentals or a little Latin freestyle, that's a different conversation.
00;31;15;23 - 00;31;36;28
Rob Lee
I use that to kind of help, like, as you said, like like lock in, because, you know, it's it's hard sometimes when you're going through and you're doing all of the different things and it's it's like repetitive. It's almost like, as far as the little bit that I do is not like it's like part of the work, but it's not like this is the actual work.
00;31;36;28 - 00;31;57;24
Rob Lee
I guess. But there's stuff that goes into that makes it that much fulfilling. So this is the last sort of like question I have around sort of like process and making work. What is your favorite part of your process like seeing like, I what do we have? Where are we at? And I would imagine you're seeing that as you're because you're developing you're making it as you go along.
00;31;57;26 - 00;32;00;18
Rob Lee
But what are your your favorite part of the process?
00;32;00;21 - 00;32;25;14
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Honestly, I would say it's some art after starting, but before you finish like that, in between ground is where I'm like, okay, I'm actually starting to see what I'm making, like half the time I will say, like, I struggle with like visualizing a final version. For me, it's always just kind of been like, I want to mix these things together.
00;32;25;17 - 00;32;41;29
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I don't know necessarily how it's going to work, but I think I have like an assumption how this might behave. And as soon as I see, like something click in, I'm like, all right, like, we got to keep going. Like, I should not stop in this moment.
00;32;42;01 - 00;32;55;25
Rob Lee
How do you choose what you're combining? I've realized that's actually a question I is. I'm very curious about it. How do you how do you go about that? Like what kind of behaves well together, what you think it's going to behave well together? Or just like I want to see what works.
00;32;55;28 - 00;33;22;13
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So far I chose materials that I consider like almost like close to memory. So with my dad being a landscaper or like a handyman, I've had experiences with some materials like concrete, like that's something that I'm like, used to like associating with his type of labor. There was a time where, like, I, when you mentioned, like, your dad, like, finessing.
00;33;22;15 - 00;33;48;13
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
My dad was, so there's a scrap yard behind our house, like, pretty nearby. And so a certain time, he would just, like, see, like when people were throwing away old appliances out in the street. He would go ahead and grab the copper. And so he sold a couple times, and then he realized, like, they dock a certain amount because of the plastic that's covered in the copper.
00;33;48;16 - 00;34;08;18
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And also in order to, like, fully get the amount, we started peeling the, the plastic off the wire. So he gave me a little, like, razor blade, and he was like, all right. Like, we're just going to peel this off, wrap it around. So I started using copper a lot in my work. In terms of like natural materials.
00;34;08;18 - 00;34;38;08
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So when I'm working with fibers, I do like using more natural elements like cotton for that reason, where I end up, if I end up wanting to set it on fire, for instance, like I can, because I know how it burns. And so for me, like I said, I love routine, I love like, discipline. And so it was hard for me to think about making something without any parameters or constraints.
00;34;38;10 - 00;34;58;23
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So like in my earliest times of making, I realized like I had to set those guidelines myself. And so most of the time it was more out of curiosity, like, okay, what materials do I want to mix? Do I want to mix wood with the. So I'm gonna mix glass with textiles, like do I know what's going to happen or not?
00;34;58;25 - 00;35;11;27
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Also it depends on access. So like what I have available to me, of course. But it was setting those limitations for myself that kind of get the ball rolling.
00;35;11;29 - 00;35;33;23
Rob Lee
That's, That's good, that's good. You know, thinking about sort of how these things work together. And you took me back there briefly. You know, the whole copper that we used to resupply was the copper back of the day. And even, my my, my, first so that the first job I was referencing earlier, it was, is at Verizon.
00;35;33;26 - 00;35;49;18
Rob Lee
And, I worked in marketing. We had a strike, and I had to work in phone lines. So it was a lot of taking the razor and kind of getting, to install dial tone, and I'd do all that stuff and, like, how much of this I was sort of to go backwards. It's like, yo, I'm just copper.
00;35;49;18 - 00;35;58;06
Rob Lee
They'd throw it away. I don't know, it's like, sir, you make 70 grand. I was like, yeah, that's not that's not the point. I can flip this copper. This would be great.
00;35;58;08 - 00;36;10;09
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Exactly, exactly. And it was always fun at the end because like, we would always get our little sweet treat, like he would sell it and soon after, we would all go to dinner with that money, like, that's what I went towards.
00;36;10;11 - 00;36;29;09
Rob Lee
This, this is unrelated. I'm going to move on to the next topic, but I definitely want to share this with you. So the job that I had, after working at, at Verizon as a janitor before returning as a management, I worked for the Baltimore Orioles. And I, used to like, clean seats and stuff for tips.
00;36;29;14 - 00;36;52;01
Rob Lee
Very weird dynamic with some of the, let's just say racial dynamics that were floating around. Right. So I, I remember one series against maybe like the Red Sox, I think I made like $500 and like, tips like, like I used to just, it's a three game series. I was just like, yeah, I'm a pay phone. Go with this.
00;36;52;03 - 00;37;30;10
Rob Lee
Yeah, that's a sweet treat during that time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. The hustle was real. So we talked about sort of, labor and you know, I shared a few of my goofy stories. But, back to the, the archive component. So you create a conceptual archive to mourn the historical redaction of personal records. And I know we were touching on that a bit earlier, but could you share, more on what is meant here and sort of with your work being presented out there in exhibitions and such, what are you hoping that folks take from your work to?
00;37;30;13 - 00;38;05;24
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So like first like, what is an IT conceptual archive? Like? I've made that a term to basically be like, I want to make objects or whatever my work is and whatever form it takes. Something in place of this absence I felt for not having access to this part of like my lineage. And so with that, I feel like most of the time when I'm making this work, I'm also grading the fact that this is not something that I had access towards.
00;38;05;26 - 00;38;33;24
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
It had started earlier with like a project I did called Archivos, which translates from Spanish as to archives in general. And simply, it was just me looking at like an online database where you could see, basically these documents were accessible online of people. And so I started to try to I was like, okay, let's mess around.
00;38;33;24 - 00;38;59;05
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Let's see if I can find my family members. And then the game fell short because at some point I was like, oh, I, I'm not finding anything. I'm not striking on anything. And I see this tab on the string that was like unspecified. And so I start flipping through it. And basically these were scans of hints of an archive.
00;38;59;08 - 00;39;26;16
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So these were badly damaged documents that whether or not like it either came from like a booklet that already had like archives in it. So they just determined this is part of it. So let's just scan at all. Or there were ones where it was just like a fragment of a page, and it just had like the the El Salvador seal of their government seal on it.
00;39;26;22 - 00;39;53;23
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And that was about it. And these were all unspecified because I believe, like, they just couldn't determine who it was for right at the time. And so I came, I became, like, enamored with these, paper like objects, even though I could only see them through a screen. And so I'm, like, looking, looking, looking at I was like, you know what?
00;39;53;23 - 00;40;16;18
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Like, what is it if I just happen to make one? And of course, like, I'm thinking about, autonomy in the sense that I don't want to put anyone's information out there, even if there is a hint of information, like sometimes there's just a name or maybe just a first name, but they don't know who it is.
00;40;16;20 - 00;40;37;06
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so I also want to recognize that I'm not just going to steal someone's information and see it, but more. I began to like, play with the settings on Photoshop and just made it in legible to the point where it just looks like hints of what it might be, I think.
00;40;37;11 - 00;40;57;21
Rob Lee
I think it's interesting, like, you know, and it had me thinking I was like, you're better than sort of, what the, the internet is sort of how archives are treated now. And, and I'm probably, I'm sure you know, where I'm going with this of yours. Stuff is being erased. Stuff is not even being filled in with any intent or any research.
00;40;57;21 - 00;41;31;19
Rob Lee
It's just like, let's Docker this photo and say it's I say it's this, it's that. But really it's being used in this weird way to recontextualize sort of real stories and not including the people who, like, I'm still alive. I was around, this happened. This is not what would went down. So could you talk a little bit about sort of that the just the importance of like, you know, sort of the care and attention that you were describing there that you're putting towards the work.
00;41;31;21 - 00;42;10;11
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Yeah. When I first talked about this is an investigation through like a historical government or personal level. What I mean, in terms of government is like, I questioned like if these documents did exist or they were somehow there, does that mean that that person never existed like these are questions I'm always asking where with my family, like, my parents have gone through obstacles and I've started going through obstacles to get, our documents from El Salvador.
00;42;10;14 - 00;42;34;14
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I'm trying to get my dual citizenship, but I can't do it unless my dad has his paperwork done and my mom has her paperwork done, and it's all for different reasons. My father's is because, he doesn't have both his parents last name and his birth certificate. And for my mother, it was because, she lost her birth certificate during the war.
00;42;34;17 - 00;43;01;14
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
The building that contained that was burned. And so whenever she has to renew her passport, she, usually has, her father or her sister go. And basically they have to look for witnesses to say she used to live here or she was born here. In order to get a temporary birth certificate to get the passport. And then she has to repeat the process all over again.
00;43;01;16 - 00;43;13;04
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So it's interesting to see, like, what it means in terms of a government to, like, have these documents or to not have these documents.
00;43;13;07 - 00;43;31;12
Rob Lee
Oh, absolutely. I make sure I was, I was sharing earlier how I go down to DC. I have my passport with me at all times. I'm like, look, not not today, not these times. And I've already gotten a few things because the beard gets a little longer. And, if I fit certain descriptions, I was like, I was born in Baltimore.
00;43;31;12 - 00;43;52;13
Rob Lee
I'm. No. Oh, okay. Oh. All right. So that's what we're doing. And even having, like, I think that's the only I.D. that I have. And there are some places like I remember because I enjoy my my drinks at times, I remember I was, I didn't, you know, you know, pull up my, my my passport. It's like, oh we can't accept that.
00;43;52;15 - 00;44;11;10
Rob Lee
I was like the one for the universe, the one for the world. Except the thing that the people use for the world. Okay, cool. So I can imagine, like, because I'm leaving the country in a few months, I'm like, can you make sure this is good? Let me make sure I look the same way. I'm 90 pounds lighter, so I don't have the same face.
00;44;11;10 - 00;44;20;29
Rob Lee
And it's it's almost ten years old, you know, the passport. So and just like had more hair and this one I want to, Can I do it? Can I updated early?
00;44;21;02 - 00;44;46;10
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So that's where I come from. From like, a government like stance where, like, it's very hard to say or even see, like, what is their treatments of this stuff, whereas you're saying, like, now we're almost to a point where you can redact stuff and we don't have access to certain things. And what does that mean?
00;44;46;10 - 00;45;01;17
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Like later on in the line, later on in life, like, how far are we willing to go? Are these going to be eradicated for good, or like, what kind of level of access will we ever have to these things?
00;45;01;19 - 00;45;20;16
Rob Lee
Absolutely. So I got these, I got this, get these two last sort of real questions that I want to, push your way. And then I got some rapid fire questions. I mean, you're not escaping what I get. No. So as an artist based in Maryland, you know, you said DMV earlier. Yeah. Splendor.
00;45;20;16 - 00;45;43;06
Rob Lee
You know, and you've attended residencies, you've been exhibited locally and maybe locally. How is your experience been like building up your practice in the DMV? And I became aware of your work in DC. And sort of finding community, like, what is that been like? For you. For you.
00;45;43;09 - 00;46;08;03
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Honestly, it's been pretty slow, mostly in part of my end. So, like I said, when I went to school in Chicago, I didn't know what, it meant to go to art school. And so I also didn't know, like, what is the like, what are you doing in terms of, like, showing out? Which meant doing galleries, going to galleries, going to openings and stuff.
00;46;08;05 - 00;46;35;26
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And so when I started to learn about that in Chicago, I mostly only knew kind of like Chicago's little hub because it was already in front of me. Yeah. So coming back to Maryland at the start of like 2022. So it's been about like for roughly like four years, right? 2 to 3 to the end. Math. What can I say?
00;46;35;29 - 00;46;38;04
Rob Lee
You know, I look forward to this many hours of my work.
00;46;38;04 - 00;47;02;21
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So, but so, like, I'm slowly kind of getting my foot in the ground and, like, I am so forever grateful for all the opportunity in this that I've had so far. I'm still fully learning and still looking at, like, some residencies and fellowships around the area. But like, I'm happy to just even get one foot in the door.
00;47;02;24 - 00;47;25;11
Rob Lee
I mean, and the thing is, like, you know, one, I became aware of work and I reached out. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm somewhat of a deal. I'm also a big I'm also a small I'm a, I'm a deal. This podcast deal. I'm nobody. But you know, one of the things and you're still in this sort of, you're younger artists to you're, you know, like, you're maybe you're so that's that's another thing.
00;47;25;11 - 00;47;45;15
Rob Lee
And I think, like, you know, your work is out there. I like your work. I think your work is interesting. I think it's definitely going to, attract folks who are like, oh, let's talk about this art. Oh, you're reimagining what an archive is and redefining that a bit. I think it's going to be resonate. It's going to resonate with so many people.
00;47;45;15 - 00;47;54;24
Rob Lee
If it hasn't already. Have you encountered any of those responses, like people reaching out in the DMs or emailing you like, yo, your work is so amazing.
00;47;54;26 - 00;48;20;24
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I have a couple of times and like I recently had done an artist talk when I had my opportunity to do my first solo show. And that was kind of like the first real testament to be like, am I communicating what I want to in my work visually, especially because I'm someone and we're and we're talking about access.
00;48;21;01 - 00;48;45;15
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
I'm always like, who has access to, like this information or how do you get access to it? Whether or not I want to say more personal stories or I want to keep it more professional, and so it was interesting to, like, have questions from the audience and they're already noting these ideas of grief and loss and they're like, I thought it was about death.
00;48;45;16 - 00;48;55;16
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And honestly, I can't negate that. Like, I'm like, these are definitely things that I'm considering in the static of the words I see.
00;48;55;18 - 00;49;22;14
Rob Lee
You know, the are they doing artist talks? Oh, yeah. Like a slow going. I was I did this artist a solo show. Did I just, so I got this one last real question, and it's definitely a good way to pen and wrap up, and the main portion, but also connects to the last one. So last I had this observation, it's a common, like conversation, I think, in the arts and culture industry, the pursuit of of fame, notoriety.
00;49;22;14 - 00;49;48;15
Rob Lee
I think, you know, I'm particularly interested in this. I see more and more people with money and more and more people who are maybe known for a certain genre of work. Maybe they're an actor. And suddenly I'm going to venture into painting. It's like you're already famous or someone has a podcast, or it's like, yeah, you know, not only am I a billionaire, I do this really great podcast that you really should check out, and I think it's had this effect on different industries.
00;49;48;15 - 00;50;06;28
Rob Lee
I see more and more people trying to do the same type of the popular podcast or, you know, we hear about it. It is, that people are making similar work to very successful work works that's really selling. And I think it's kind of dampening and kind of hindering the quality of things. But, you know, people want that bread.
00;50;06;28 - 00;50;22;17
Rob Lee
People want the bag for you. What really drives your practice, I know, is the personal connection. I know you, you get into it. You like, you like staying busy, you like working with your hands and, you know, so what's driving your practice? And ultimately what's your goal? At the end of the day?
00;50;22;19 - 00;50;51;12
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Honestly, it's just been curiosity like, through this experience or like finally learning within the past couple of years, like, you know what? Like, this is the idea I have, like, in mind. And I want to see how this translates in different mediums. And I may not be having the same conversation each time, or maybe it looks a little different, but at the end of the day, like, this is like a moment for me to kind of process that.
00;50;51;12 - 00;51;23;16
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
And that's why I consider it like a vessel of reflection, like I am also the one reflecting on this, and I know it's an extension of me, which is also why is so difficult to like, part with anything. Like I'm not one to be like, all right, let's sell like this all in one go. Like I'm still like actually, like, I don't know how much I even want, like, I don't know if I can even part with this or how much that is going to cost me, like, emotionally.
00;51;23;18 - 00;51;26;15
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
But what was the second part of your question?
00;51;26;17 - 00;51;30;05
Rob Lee
Ultimate goal. And I think you're touching, but my ultimate goal.
00;51;30;08 - 00;52;03;27
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Ultimate goal. Definitely. Like, I, I so want to continue this role. I want to have the access that I need in order to make on a different scale. Yeah. Access is definitely important as an artist, of course. Like time and money are always a factor, but I believe having access to, whether it be materials or like like I say, archives like these are things that I feel resonate a lot more happier.
00;52;03;29 - 00;52;29;01
Rob Lee
I love it. Let's see. So you're already speaking my language. There's been a few things where I had to like. Like something. I'll focus. Like she said it, I want to page usually I have that question. Not just like, you know, people always go with money. You know, I did the, Marilyn Art summit a couple weeks ago, and I'm being asked I'm being interviewed by one of my, students from my podcasting class, which is a real wow, full circle moment.
00;52;29;03 - 00;52;43;22
Rob Lee
And she asks me, she's just like, so how can folks support you? And I'm just like, money's too easy. Money is always thing and it's like, we never have enough and so on. I was like, I don't do this for money. I was like, I approach it like a chef. It's just like, you know, thin margins. It's like, I like cooking, you know?
00;52;43;24 - 00;53;11;26
Rob Lee
And it's, I think mentioning one's name and sort of helping these stories get shared, that's the most important thing. You know, I've said this a lot. You know, it's really not about me. I try to obscure myself from these things. So if I'm able to now a conversation I like, you know, get my stuff off. But if I can help folks get their work out there, have sort of their story in conjunction with their work, being out there and being so great.
00;53;11;28 - 00;53;22;05
Rob Lee
That's that's the thing that matters for me and folks that like it, supporting that and helping that go out there, that's what really matters. And it's not money doesn't cost you anything.
00;53;22;07 - 00;53;33;00
Truth In This Art (Sound)
No, no, no no no no no no no no no no.
00;53;33;02 - 00;53;52;25
Rob Lee
And with that as a segue into the rapid fire portion, because I got to get these off to, so as, you know, said earlier, just quick answers. You don't overthink these, these are fun questions, but it peers into the sold. Okay, work. All right. And so don't overthink these. Here's the first one. What is your oldest possession.
00;53;52;27 - 00;54;10;25
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Or oldest confession? Let me think. I would say maybe it's my necklace right now. You may not see it for people that are listening. I have this necklace I've had since I was five, and it has a little heart pendant. So there is also the teeth parts. When I used to bite on it.
00;54;10;28 - 00;54;34;17
Rob Lee
Yes, but the archive of my necklace, where my teeth marks that you can tell that I was. I lost this tooth at this time. That's that's great. That's great. Let's see. Well, putting in the work in the hours that you're putting in and, doing your work, you got to eat. So what is your, like, go to snack?
00;54;34;17 - 00;54;40;18
Rob Lee
I like pistachios, I eat a lot of pistachios, but I feel like your face did a thing there. So what is your go to snack?
00;54;40;25 - 00;54;58;11
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Honestly, it's like a roll of the dice. It always changes. I will say, like, It depends. Like, sometimes I'm in the sweet mood, sometimes I'm in the savory mood, but sometimes I have to have a sweet and then a savory follow up because, I need, like, the mixture in the palette.
00;54;58;14 - 00;55;05;23
Rob Lee
Give me an example of each. You give it yourself. Another question. You did this. I didn't do this. It's like, give me a snack. You say, here's the thing, here's reality.
00;55;05;28 - 00;55;18;09
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
It like I could do like a rest factor. And then maybe I'll follow up with, like, some fruit because we usually have fruit in the house. Like that's my sweet.
00;55;18;12 - 00;55;38;17
Rob Lee
Okay. So you I like that I like that like Ritz crackers are. Wow. Buttery is it's like I do this, but then my has the strawberries with it. Yeah. Fine. It's like a savory shortbread. Ghost stories or shortcake rather. Okay, here's the last one. And that's good. I might like to try some fruit with some reds.
00;55;38;17 - 00;55;57;06
Rob Lee
I never did. I just do cheese where they just double the salt. So could you share 1 to 2 of your favorite art or cultural spots in the DMV, like areas that you like? You know, it could be galleries. It can be any place that you feel has a cultural, an artistic significance for you.
00;55;57;09 - 00;56;00;19
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Arts, the cultural spot.
00;56;00;21 - 00;56;04;10
Rob Lee
What are your favorite places to go? Because I might I might have made it a little bit harder.
00;56;04;11 - 00;56;26;17
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Are you a little a little, favorite places to go? So my mom took me to. It's called me Goober Cafe. Down in Columbia Heights. So she used to live there, and so she took me on this, like, one little walk where she was like, I used to live here. This is where I, you see, took me down like memory lane.
00;56;26;17 - 00;56;45;08
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So, like, I'm not sure if it's still open, but, like, that was one of my favorite places to kind of go when I was like, all right, I'm going here. Make it a mission. I also enjoy drinking tea. So assorted tea is a lot like, I love a good iced tea in the moment. And.
00;56;45;10 - 00;56;55;16
Rob Lee
Okay, okay, I I've, I've started to reengage in tea. Coffee. God. Like, I've had a coffee named after me. So, you know, getting it.
00;56;55;16 - 00;57;03;19
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Got to be both like, I sometimes I need that caffeine, but also like, I want, like a juice without the heavy sugars.
00;57;03;22 - 00;57;27;18
Rob Lee
You get it. You get to see. Look, I drink spindrift now I do the spindrift, the the half like lemon seltzer with the brew tea. And one of our friends, she's like, what are you drinking? I was like, don't worry about it. It's. It's footballers like me. So so thank you. That's there's there's two places. So that's kind of it for our conversation here on this, this this afternoon.
00;57;27;21 - 00;57;50;07
Rob Lee
So it's two things I would like to do as we close out here. One, I like to thank you for spending some time with me coming on the podcast and being such a lovely guest. And and two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners. This is that shameless plug part that is it could you, you know, share your website, social media, anything in these final moments to, let folks know what you have going on?
00;57;50;13 - 00;58;00;14
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
Yeah. So my Instagram is Chiara Das. Let me not get clearly, I don't even got.
00;58;00;16 - 00;58;06;29
Rob Lee
Road trip that far. It out. That's really funny. Like it's Escudero dash. I don't know.
00;58;07;02 - 00;58;21;09
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
So my Instagram is Chiara Marie bed underscore and on there there should be a link to like what I consider to be my website right now because I'm kind of refusing to do what I say, but.
00;58;21;10 - 00;58;22;29
Rob Lee
It's.
00;58;23;02 - 00;58;30;12
Kiara-Maribel Rivera
It's more like a it feels like our portfolio, and I feel a lot more comfortable on that platform. Okay.
00;58;30;15 - 00;58;44;04
Rob Lee
There you have it, folks. I want to again, thank Chiara maribel Rivera for coming on to the podcast and for Chiara. I'm Rob Lee saying that there is art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it and.