Rob Lee: Welcome to the Truth in its art, your source of conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee. Accept no substitutes. Today I am thrilled to welcome my next guest Dawn to the program. She's a visionary creative producer and documentary filmmaker based in Washington, DC. She takes in a multitude of ideas, finding meaningful connections between them and shapes those connections into work that feels grounded, resonant, and alive. When challenges come her way, her first instinct is possibility. Let's give this a try. Please welcome to the program. Zoe Poindexter. Welcome to the Truth and His Art.

Zoë Poindexter: Thank you so much for having me, Rob.

Rob Lee: Thank you for coming on. Glad we were able to um make this happen. Uh, you know, it's one of those things where we initially talked a few months back, and I was just like, all right, and now we're here and we're here to talk about a few things, but as we um start off, we want to get to know you. So in an effort to do that, could you take us back to one of those earlier moments where you recall, you know, perhaps media or film mattered to you?

Because, you know, in the intro, talk about your your background, you know, filmmaker and so on, and it's much more in there, but I at least want to start there.

Zoë Poindexter: Yes, thank you so much again for having me. So much has changed since I first reached out reached out to you just like a couple of months ago. So I'm glad we're doing this now because I feel like I have a lot more to say. But I was thinking about this question, and it was hard for me to pinpoint because I know for a fact that I've always been a creative person that's been embedded in me, and it is due to how I was raised. Um I was raised in a household where we were always watching movies, whether it was a bootleg DVD or you know, the series of The Matrix or or Lord of the Rings, um, uh you know, YouTube came up when I was like uh like a ten year old or something like that. Um I have memories of when my younger siblings were being born, having a tape recorder at the births asking everybody what they thought about this historic moment. Um and I was in plays, I think as early as five, acting in my church, and you know, I I I don't know why, because I wouldn't say that either of my parents um uh were like super creative expression type of people. Um my mom they they both have teachers in their family, so maybe where that's where that came from, but um I I think I've always known that I wanted to do something that involved film visual medium.

Sure. Um I had dreams of being an actress for a long time, but then it was in high school where I had to make the decision of what I wanted to study in college, and I had wanted to pursue acting, but just like the cost and of traveling and auditioning and all the applications. It made me choose to take a different route through journalism. Sure. Um, which felt like a typical kind of way to get adjacent to television and film production.

Rob Lee: That makes sense. And that's that's good. Um and that definitely touches on sort of this this next question, but there's another part to that first question. So when you think back to those earlier films you touched on the Matrix talk on Lord of the Rings, uh have you ever had like uh uh a film or TV show, but something like sort of in media where you're like, hey, how do they make that? I want to make that. Yes.

Zoë Poindexter: Uh so I think more recently I could actually point to this. Okay. This is gonna feel kind of um I guess stereotypical. Uh maybe not, because it's it's just it's mainstream right now, right?

Sinners. I remember watching that movie and thinking, not so much even the storytelling, but the ensemble, which we've already seen that Ryan Kugler can do that, but his ability to bring so many different aspects of black culture together and also um genres that maybe aren't necessarily uh related to black culture, but then seeing all the different departments that were involved in making that film, to me, it it's made me think more about how a producer slash director, how they are charged with having all the relationships that make that happen. And so something I do more often now when I go to the movie theaters is I stay through the the credits, the end credits. I want to see every single name, every single department, because that is real. That it's that many people to make a film sometimes, and I think that is incredible to be able to orchestrate that.

Rob Lee: Yeah, we've we've also been in this era for the last what almost twenty years of the the post credit being the thing. It's almost your design to stay there to show appreciation to the the craftsmen, the laborers, not just the pretty faces and then the you know the the boom mics, the best boys, the key grips. those things.

Zoë Poindexter: See that to the assistant to the llama, like these things like that.

Rob Lee: Yeah, the the dog needs an assistant, you know, to get that kibble for you know if a dog actor in this movie. Um so you you touched on it a moment ago. Early in your journey, you uh I read that you were a journalism capstone advisor and you know documentary filmmaking teacher's assistant at Georgetown University. Um experience also as a digital media associate for you know CBS News. So could you reflect on any of those those times and share how like working in journalism helped shape your approach to storytelling within your work like I guess subsequently.

Zoë Poindexter: Yeah. So I actually still do work with Georgetown. Um I'll I'll be back as the documentary uh teacher's assistant next year. We're gonna we we did it for the first time this semester or last spring semester and we're gonna bring it back next year with a documentary two course so I'm very excited about that. Um but you know journalism was the path that I chose to get into um television film industry because I can't I'm emerging right now in this industry but it really did help a sol help me get a solid background I would say in producing storytelling um and and relationship building I would say because relationship building is so important to storytelling we need especially nonfiction storytelling which is where I would say I specialize in what journalism taught me. Um I was in journalism um graduate school at Georgetown University which is how I'm still connected with them and something that always um kind of bothered me was this idea that I could not tell stories with any sort of bias. You know we were told things like you can't be at a Black Lives Matter parade if you're a journalist and I was like but I'm black and why would I not be allowed to be there?

People are probably gonna assume it anyway, right? And so there was always this um I would say tension between being who I am as a human being and wanting to tell real stories about things that are really affecting people but in a way where people would still take them seriously despite a perceived bias that I may have with that story. So I just think that was a tension that I always had with journalism and now as I'm in this journey of pursuing documentary filmmaking it's kind of let me understand that that was my foundation. It taught me how to do the who win where and why you know the basis of of a of a journalism news coverage sort of thing and also how to get access to people, how to get access to folks and have authority when when you're telling a story too because a lot of research is involved as well too in context and being able to create meaning between um things uh many many things that are happening at the same time concurrently how do they relate to each other. Um it also gave me the ability to uh help other journalists um tell their stories more effectively and it really proved to myself that like I know what I'm doing I can I can help people tell you know I can help people tell a story in a way that um is fair, is accurate and gets their points across that's good.

Rob Lee: Let's go to I think like the the journalism thing sort of that approach and those those tenants whenever I have um someone who is is a journalist who has those the vocation right um I approach what I do in that way.

I'm a self-taught podcaster I've been doing it forever but I try to it's not diminish it or say it doesn't matter but the term podcaster a little bit has gotten a little bit more deprecated, you know it's just any mediocre dude we're journalists.

Zoë Poindexter: Yeah. Yeah and I I think the shape and the texture of media and of storytelling and of podcasting film all of these different things have kind of gotten a little dirt on it. So I think being able to separate what we do from sort of in this siloed way. I'm a filmmaker. It's like no I'm a filmmaker that uses the tenants of and I'm a producer all of these things, but I use the tenets of journalism in many ways to kind of help guide and shape my approach to that the same as you know it depends on it sometimes it's grant language, you know it's like oh yeah it's like yeah you should diminish the journalism piece. Focus on the art piece. Gotcha.

And but still, the approach is very much that. Even if something as simple as, let me send these questions over beforehand as a courtesy. Sometimes people read them, sometimes they don't. But for me, ethically, it feels to it's it feels important to send that over.

That's what I was gonna say. I think that is the difference between people who may call themselves podcasters or journalists today, but don't necessarily have the formal training, which I'm not saying you need the formal training, but the ethics of it are so important. Even though I couldn't reconcile, you know biases that I have that may be very obvious, it's still important to at least recognize that that is something that someone else may recognize and internalize when they're reading your reporting when they're watching your reporting. So it's being cognizant again about the context that goes into telling a story and not trying to I would say there's a huge difference between marketing and journal um podcasting and mark like knowing the difference between those two lanes is important as well.

Rob Lee: I've been doing and having some conversations around like sort of being an independent independent uh media independent journalism, any of the sort of terminology that kind of I think accurately describes what I do and the thing that I've been very curious about, and I I did a talk last week um at the Maryland Arts Summit about this, sort of making the case for independent journalism. In essence, what I'm describing is I was like, so how does this podcaster it's independent, right?

Really unregulated because it's no SEC. Um you're beholden to who's funding you, whether it be your patrons or the big person under you or top of you. Um and so how does this quote unquote independent podcast get the biggest movie star at a certain time? It's just like, oh, you're you're connected. I can't get that person is like because I'm actually independent or maybe I'm doing it wrong. And I I think in it you can kind of tell, but we still want to play this game of independence.

And I know that as we're talking, and I'm gonna move into this next question, but as we're we're talking, I know that the dialogue online is people taking shots at A24 because of a little bit of a shift that they've done recently. And you know, it's we still care about that. The the bit is Gen X doesn't like sell outs.

It's like, no, no, no, no one likes sellouts, no one likes anything that feels like, hey man, you were supposed to be like the indie people with really, you know, snob, nose up. Now it's just like, oh, AI? All right, I hear you.

Zoë Poindexter: Oh my God. That that is definitely a conversation as well too, but like, and maybe this is getting ahead of myself in the questions, but understanding how difficult it is to fund things. I'm not saying it excuses sell outs at all, because if you say your values are one thing, then you need to fight for those no matter what. But like I I understand those sometimes things change, perhaps. But the journey I'm on now is a journey of pursuing independence and coming from places where I knew they did not have uh that same ability to be independent, and it was affecting the kind of creativity I was allowed to have.

Rob Lee: And and and that's sort of the segue piece into this next question. I I think what I find is uh when there's a relinquishing of that independence, it stems and it kind of shapes and silos those ideas.

Boom. So tell me about ideas. Where do your ideas come from? How do you how do you capture them? What what's the flow from like idea to let's give this a try?

Zoë Poindexter: Okay, so I'm gonna start off with a cliche. Ideas definitely happen in the most random places. Like we used to joke at my previous job, when you couldn't figure something out, the idea was gonna hit you in the shower. And the amount of times that I've been in the shower and an idea has really struck me over the head has been quite a few. And I will also say the other place is in my dreams.

Um I do truly believe um dream journals are a good thing to keep because uh I mean, it's just a whole part of our consciousness, I guess our unconsciousness that we are not aware of, but so much is going on in there. And even a recent experience, I was dealing with um uh an ish a creative um issue with my current documentary project, and multiple people had brought it up to me. And I was like, if I had an idea for this, I would have changed it by now.

Like I'm so tired of people telling me because I was like, I just don't know what to do. And after the third person brought it up to me, I was sleeping that night and I swear at three in the morning, and I'm an astrology person, so I was looking at all this stuff, it was a full moon, it was like 3 30 in the morning. Um, and the idea finally hit me. And it wasn't even something that wasn't already being formulated and things that I had exposed myself to. Like it had all the elements of things I was aware of, but it just didn't dawn on me until that exact moment that that was the solution I had been looking for. So the other way that I come up with ideas is I consume a lot of creativity. I don't absorb all of it.

It's just simply not possible. But I'm constantly keeping myself open. And I've uh uh I uh consume many forms of creativity in media as well too. Like there's literally no limit to the types that I like to experience. Um and I'm kind of a disorganized person.

I'll be I'll be honest about it. I have routines that I try to keep, but I keep my ideas in many different places. I have I literally have my dream journal on my lap. Um I have several notebooks all over the place. I do um uh iPhone notes. Um I try to at least organize them by what they are, right? So I have one that pertains to everything with my documentary, I have one that pertains to different uh movie or TV show ideas that I have.

I have one for songs that I think would be really good to to mash up together when I become a DJ in ten years or whatever, right? So it's all about capturing it as it comes, and then when it comes to actually executing the ideas, when I was thinking about this question, I was thinking about how I'm at a place where you know, previously I was doing a lot of creative work for others. So the success of it it it it did impact, you know, my job status or whatever, but it didn't have as much of um a bearing on me personally as it did for the person I was doing the work for. So now I am stepping into a lane where I'm betting so much more on myself and my creativity, and these projects are still very much in development or early production that I'm not quite sure yet if they're home runs or if they're just gonna be okay. I would say if anything, I came into this definitely a bit more ambitious and thinking above my actual experience. So there have been some things that have humbled me. I would say in terms of their results, like fundraising uh through a crowdfund for the first time for a documentary film.

I really was like, oh yeah, we're gonna be able to do this in this timeline and this timeline. Here I am, we are still working on that crowdfund, but I still did a lot very successfully um for my first time, but I can look back and say marketing could have been stronger. But again, I don't consider myself to be a marketer, um at least with the foundation of understanding marketing. So uh I truly believe in relationships. So any of the ideas that I have, they're probably based on who are the partners that I'm gonna need to make this happen. Um, knowing that it's my idea and I'm always gonna be the one who roots for it the strongest. But at the end of the day, there's always someone who's interested in something that you are as well too.

Rob Lee: Yeah, that tracks. That that makes a lot of sense. Um, you know when we're in these things where and you you touched on it where I'm gonna be the biggest advocate, this is my child, that that sort of language. And you know, when I'm doing this, uh it's collaborative, it's relationship-based.

It's like I've said it's only as good as the dance partner I have. This is like blind gates in many ways with creative people. It's all of these different cliches sort of things that I say. And you know, I like to really work on those ideas and really stretch out those ideas. And I've not shared this a lot, but I I have uh touched on that season and I've I made it a part of what I do now. But last season I wanted to intentionally go through um because I'd had funding the previous two years and I was going for my third round of funding. And my goal was I wanted to hit two different cities outside of Baltimore.

Like I don't really the d the DMV area. And I wanted to do only guests who've been on before. So I wanted to run it back and catch up with folks. And the funder ghosted me.

Just got nothing for you. So I had to, in some ways shrink that idea down a bit, but I was so committed to doing it. I was like, I'm not gonna not do it.

I was like, I just have to find a different way to do it. And you know, I think I I sit somewhere between I'm not overly precious about an idea, but I do really respect my ideas. And like you, before I move into this next question, like you, my stuff is everywhere. I get, you know, I have like files that I get inspiration from. I'm looking at this book now, uh No Ideas Final, and just the different interviews in there, the talks.

I have my different notes that I have in the book that's hanging out of it. I got um I got ideas for rap lines, let's not talk about that. I got ideas for jokes. Uh I got all types of stuff and the the iPhone, notepads, scratch pads, sometimes napkins.

Zoë Poindexter: I know that August will seem to write stuff on napkins. Yeah. Yeah. Just like you just go in my pocket, it's like, is that a receipt with like it is. It is.

I didn't pay for what's going on in front of someone else's receipt. You never know what inspiration is gonna strike, and again, that's how I know I'm a creative being, right? Because I see inspiration in everything.

It's almost in order to actually finish something sometimes, I have to deprive myself of all that inspiration because it could be never ending sometimes, and sometimes you're like, I need to focus.

Rob Lee: So you you and before I move into the second, this is a side question, but you you said astral uh astrology, so what what we got? What we got? What we what we're doing.

Zoë Poindexter: Okay, okay. So I'm waiting. So my sun sign is Virgo, I'm wearing a Virgo necklace. Um but my rising sign is Aries, and that is the first sign in the zodiac.

Uh-huh. And so it is the youngest, most immature, most impulsive sign in the zodiac. Um, but then my moon sign is in Leo, which is my fifth house of creativity. So a lot of fire with a little bit of earth to bring me down, a little bit of earth to bring me down to the ground occasionally, but most of the time it's like fire, fire.

Rob Lee: I I I can tell. I I here's the thing. I uh I I dated an Aries for a long time. I'm friends with Virgos. I'm the I'm my sunside's an Aquarius and I'm on the cuff.

Zoë Poindexter: I'm serious. Yes.

Rob Lee: Capricorn Aquarius cuffs, so always get the side eye from the Leos is like I I you know, I see certain things, it's like, yeah, I see.

Zoë Poindexter: It's it's it's not even really a common placement because I I look into these sort of things. Um but Aries is an maybe we'll talk about this in some of the c questions, but what I think a good producer is someone who has a lot of interests, and that is definitely an Aries. They have their hands in like everything because they can't keep their attention on something like the time.

Rob Lee: Yeah. Multiple plate spinning. It's like, oh, you get your finger in another pie. I see. I I hear you. Exactly. So talk about the extremes of ideation, right? Like, for example, is there an idea that was pretty much out there? It's like this is very ambitious, and but you you were committed to making it, and maybe it was a swing, maybe it was a miss. What was that experience like? Or was there an idea that felt like, all right, I'm gonna knock this one out of the park, and it's like, ooh, kind of took on a little bit too much and it was only okay. It's like you're the perfect person for it. Sell a little short. Yeah.

Zoë Poindexter: I mean honestly, when I uh made the decision to go freelance this year, I was approached by a lot of people with a lot of ideas. Um and I I would say in terms of you know the extremes, what I'm doing right now is an extreme. Uh, because I've never done it before. I don't have the experience or the playbook to know how this is gonna turn out, and that is something I think about constantly because it would make other people stop in their tracks. Some people stop in their tracks immediately, because you just truly do not have a playbook for how this is gonna turn out, and all the advice that people can give you, it really means nothing because that's their experience. They cannot tell you exactly how this is gonna turn out for you. So I'm currently in my extreme right now.

Once we get through it, you know, hopefully it'll be a home run. But when it comes to okay, I've been approached by so many people with ideas this year for like podcasts or uh mostly podcasts. Everybody wants to do a podcast. But what and for me, what makes those ideas just okay is that they don't actually come into fruition, and because they're not my idea, I can't even see it to conclusion for them because something that's really important for me is kind of listening to my inner voice and trying to determine, okay, this is for me versus this may be for them, and I will help support them, but I can't shepherd it for them because then I will lose sight of what I am working on. And I tried really hard to think of a more specific example for this question, but I guess I uh this is what I thought about. I was thinking about how you measure what is a home run versus what is okay. And some people may do that with metrics, especially on social media. But I was watching an interview with like comedians, um, so women who are comedians and they're also um directors, showrunners, so and so and Quinta Brunson was in there, and what she said is she was like, comments don't matter to me.

That's a form of measurement. She was like, because you know, I'm a creative and I think my job is just to put it out there and y'all do with it what you want. You know, so she wasn't really measuring how well something did, because to her, that wasn't the point. The point was to make and have people have experiences based on what she made. And so my creative director brain likes to think that way in terms of was this a success? Um, but my producer brain, I guess at the same in the same way, is like, how did people feel about this? Did we receive any sort of feedback?

Did people engage with it? Um so I'm still looking for the personal projects that I'm working on where I can actually make that determination, and I would just say it's a little too early for me to classify things as such, um, in terms of my personal creative ideas. That that makes sense.

Rob Lee: Like w when I'm putting something out like this, I'm like, damn, this is a good interview, or uh this was how did I get that guessed, or things of that nature. And it's just like we gotta look at the downloads, we gotta look at the metrics, the comments, the engagement. And you touched on it earlier about just those conversations around marketing, and I was just like, well, what am I doing?

Chiefly, let's bring it back to the root of it. I was like, I do a lot of stuff to make these things work. So maybe I shouldn't care about that as much, because it's really like my aim is not to get that download. My aim is to have that conversation. And if I put the conversation out there and people like it, they feel inspired, or I feel like they've learned something, that's the the thing. And I think those interactions are heavier, have more weight than someone gave me a heart emoji on on IG or or something like that, or or someone commented with the fire emoji and the data. I don't know. But it's emojis.

Everything is an emoji. And but but I but I think sort of the uh opportunity to do more. Then there are other instances where you kind of just know like, okay, this fell a little bit short, or this wasn't quite there. Um And it it's a thing that I've been looking at recently about everything is so polished, everything is so great, but we're not allowed to quote unquote do bad work or have something that isn't the most pristine, the most well done. Everything the the standard is everything is polished. And I think in that you're unable to determine what's really, really good and what's okay, what's perhaps not as okay, which has some room to grow and what's bad.

I think everything is sort of at that same level, and that means none of it's good then, you know, or or something to that effect. And I think as I get to I'm coming up on a thousand episodes, it'll be here very, very quickly.

Zoë Poindexter: Wow, thank you, thank you. And I, you know, I have to really look at those, like in doing what I was touching on earlier of having follow-up interviews and conversations with people. Like, I hope the first one is I hope this is better than the first one, you know. I I I have to put myself in that sort of spot, but it's always sort of challenging. Yeah. That that's that's a piece of it.

Zoë Poindexter: I I so again, Virgo, I am so hypercritical of I try to be more so with myself more than others. But I can relate to that. Like I am always trying to do something better. So sometimes it actually is hard for me to acknowledge my wins. Um it's something actually that a coach of mine was trying to get me to be more so in the mindset of thinking about framing things in a more positive way of what you've achieved versus like the gap between where you are and where you want to go.

But I think it's okay though to have that be publicly visible, your growth. Because you can't get any better at anything unless you try. And so many people aren't even trying, and maybe the people that can help you to make that better product to make that bet uh better deliverable, can't find you unless you put that ver first iteration or version of it out there for people to see.

So I am not afraid of being seen as imperfect or um, you know, not quite making the mark. And in fact, I welcome feedback. People do not give feedback uh uh in a constructive way, but people do not give it enough, in my opinion, especially when it's being asked for um from followers, you know.

Rob Lee: Yeah, and and and sort of like I teach this uh podcast class, I'm in that my year my third year of teaching it, and one of the pieces that in the last two years I've inserted is that feedback is that peer review of yo, like what do you really think of this? Like outside of would you listen to it, but looking at the technical components, not like, hey, I don't care about the subject matter because we get people who are just sometimes they're trying to save the world. I'm like, this is just a pilot. I I don't know if you're gonna accomplish saving the world in 20 minutes.

I hear you. And but it's just like, you know, how is it edited? Is it pace well? Is it clear, like sort of having a rubric of what needs to be there? But then also giving sort of space and and an opportunity for that creativity to show.

That's that's the thing. And you know, that's that's been really good, but I find that often we're just making stuff and putting it out there, and I think getting that feedback and it not be from audiences didn't like it or didn't make a billion dollars in the first day, so it's bad, you know. I see too much of that, and and I'm gonna get I'm gonna get off my soapbox, but the businessing of these things, I think impacts the creativity.

Zoë Poindexter: That part, because I was like, why is it is it a home run versus uh is it just okay based on what it brought in, or is it based on your own personal standard of what quality looks like? I think that matters more than the business at this stage in my life.

Rob Lee: So moving into sort of your projects, your independent production company, w what was the thinking behind going into business for yourself? I know you were touching on sort of like working on other folks' projects and really spending time on your own stuff, but how did you arrive at that decision and what was it like kind of starting out like day one, like, oh, I'm doing this now. Who's gonna oh I gotta get coffee too? I gotta do these things, like what's my routine now? You know, talk about that a bit.

Zoë Poindexter: So I am only I want to say about four weeks uh out of being officially freelance. And again, like so many things in my life, this was ruminating, like bubbling in the pot in the background, and I was just ignoring it, I guess perhaps because you know, transparently I was not happy in my last job, and I had been looking for what else I could do, but nothing materialized. I'm saying no jobs got back, no or many jobs didn't even fit what I felt I was looking for. And it's funny because I think like the first week, maybe even six months at my last job, I had thought I was like, you know, the idea of being a freelancer, I I like it.

I just don't have the Rolodex or the context, I feel like, to make it happen. And when I was in the pro so the last six months where I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna do this, the way my network expanded immensely, where I feel I do now have the contacts that I can reach out to for works work and jobs. It's just incredible how when you put that intention out there, what you are looking for will find you.

So um it was a combination of many factors that led me to uh pursue independence, you know, uh not seeing the job out there for me, realizing that I needed to create uh my own job for myself, and then also in a sense, like creative differences, because I did start my job um with not my job, I started my documentary project with my former job, but uh we were not able to pursue it um together, which is understandable, you know, different business priorities, and at the end of the day, it was better because now I have complete full control over the project, um, and and you know, what the the final product is gonna be fully um my idea and owned by me. And I will say it is really easy to create an LLC in Washington, DC. I have one for my documentary, and everything that kind of lives in that universe will go under the documentary, but then I also have my freelance production company, which is Zoe Pointexter Media LLC, but that's where all I hope my future films and whatever creative projects deliverables I create will live under. And I even created um a DBA for a studio name, so Luna Leaf's pictures, which combines my love of the moon with my middle name. Um I I think the moon's a great symbol for especially if I continue to make documentaries or even speculative fiction or horror, because the moon, when it's full, shines the light on things that are normally hidden, you know, our fears, our emotions, our um intuition, and so that's just something I can really relate to, and I hope that everything I make kind of has a sense of revealing things that are normally hidden.

Rob Lee: Makes sense. And I think that ties into this next question because you know, when I saw like horror, I saw a few other things kind of pop up. I was like, all right. So you your interests, right, include and and I think this has been touched on thus far, includes the social justice piece and includes the arts, live experiences, speculative fiction and horror, uh, music festivals, immersive storytelling, and and travel. We're we're you know, synergistic here. How do these interests show up in the work that you're making, the work that you want to make, the work that that really interests you?

Zoë Poindexter: Yeah, I was trying to think, I was like, how do these all relate? And I think it's impossible to get them. I mean, w the day that I find something that connects all of them will be incredible.

But also, this is not an exhaustive exhaustive list, right? Um, I think it goes back to my idea of what makes a good producer. A good producer is someone who has many interests and can relate to many things because I think at the end of the day, you need to be re able to relate to people, whether they're your audience, whether they're your participants, um, whether it is the story that you're trying to tell, um, it it makes it easier for you to understand that story you're trying to tell and who you're trying to tell it to. So um, you know, there are threads throughout throughout my career. I had the opportunity to work on a social justice um uh social media series of CBS News that won a webby for the p politics um category. It was um unfortunately it was about the death of George Floyd, but it demonstrated how um activism, activist groups in DC were continuing their work um after after that after that death, and I am still connected to that organization today, involving myself as both a citizen and as someone who deeply cares um about their missions and trying to use my skills as a storyteller, as a journalist to help um uplift their mission. And then um, you know, I I've always loved telling stories about artists, and then when I came to DC, I was able to tell stories about artists who were also activists, so that's where those two things align. And then my previous job had me doing a lot of work with live events, producing them, whether it was, you know, telling a story about someone who who is experiencing something related to the event and then producing the moment where they come out and they are then part of the event. Um there's just so many opportunities, and this is my multimedia uh background as well, too, of just thinking about the different ways that you can incorporate narrative and you can incorporate a mission and you can incorporate a value into a story. It's it's uh I don't want to say it's easy, but there's just always an opportunity and it is so fun. It's kind of like 4D thinking, I guess.

Like, what are the ways that we can we can tell this story in different access points too? And then speculative fiction and horror for me, that really comes from like what I love to consume. Um I'm in a horror book club. I have been for oh my god, like three years now. Um I'm a huge Halloween fan.

Before I got on here, I was literally talking about universal horror nights. I can't wait. But um that is something that I see for myself, hopefully in the future, uh, especially because I want to get more into my acting, uh my my directing actors back. Like I want to get more experience directing actors, uh directing blocking, breaking down scripts, and that sort of thing. But I've read so many books that I'm like, this needs to be a movie.

And so that that is something I'm gonna have to be looking into, how to get story rights, and then um because doing the work that I'm doing on my documentary, I'm working with a a coach who coaches all types of filmmakers, not just documentary filmmakers. A lot of them are doing short films, a lot of them are doing horror. Horror is a genre that I think is going to have such longevity.

I mean, it it's it's probably one of the oldest, I think, genres uh of of cinema. Um, and so there's always gonna be an interest in it because it deals with an emotion, again, that sometimes is hidden that we can't, I don't know if we'll ever be able to conquer it as a people. If we do, I think a lot of things wouldn't exist in this world anymore if we were able to conquer our fears. Um, but I am more interested again in telling stories that serve a deeper purpose, whether that is to inspire mostly to inspire change, growth, conversation, um, dialogue within people. So that's why I like to think about horror as speculative fiction. So it may be something that we are experiencing right now or something we can imagine experiencing in our future um due to kind of like the social issues, uh it it ties into social justice, right? It can tie into social justice. Um so that that is a hope of mine that I could I could start telling more stories that relate to that. Yeah.

Rob Lee: So werewolves at a traveling uh music festival that are active. No, that no, that that's just spitting it out there. That's just spitting it out there. No, no, I I I definitely watch Shudder all the time. Um I will spend a day looking at um what is that documentary in in darkness or have you and they break down the decades.

Zoë Poindexter: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Rob Lee: You know, this this is just inside baseball at this point, but one of the I think it was Horror Noir. I um reached out to one of the panelists on there and I've interviewed her and she's done my movie review podcast.

Zoë Poindexter: I've what is her name? It begins with like a I think I've read one of her her books.

Rob Lee: Horror Noir. Not her. I know who you are.

Zoë Poindexter: Her name Her name is Leah Anderson who I'm referring to. Okay, okay.

Rob Lee: And um so before I got on with you, I was watching a horror movie in preparation for a uh podcast that we're doing. It's from 1990, uh Death by Temptation.

Zoë Poindexter: Oh, I don't think I've heard of that one.

Rob Lee: It's it's an interesting movie.

Zoë Poindexter: Uh like a beat of the Oh, yes, death. D, F, by Temptation.

Rob Lee: And it's just like because it's black. I hear you. But, um yeah, it's uh it is it's a it's you know, I get into the minutiae of it. I like talking about it and having

Zoë Poindexter: someone from uh leads for Leah rights for Thangoria. So you know, so having her was like, oh, I'm bringing this to another level, and I could just be Joe Chucklehead that watches it, but having someone with the real chops. So that's um that's pretty pretty dope. Yeah, I mean it's it's deep history, I would I would say, because this one is what from the nineties, you said nineties, yeah. Yeah, I've never even heard of this one, but it looks fun. I'll watch it.

Rob Lee: Yeah, um, it's on it's on Tubi.

Zoë Poindexter: Oh my Always on Tubi.

Rob Lee: If they god, just cut the check.

Zoë Poindexter: it's a treasure trove for horror, especially if you can't afford shutter. I I actually do love to be for that. They have almost everything.

Rob Lee: I want to get a podcast on TV just as a video. It's just literally this setup. And it's like we put it on to be here you go. You wanted video, here you go.

I did not see for this one. Um So I want to send the last part of the real questions um discussing your your your documentary. So going deeper into your projects, uh tell me about a revolution called Love, your emerging documentary that um you're producing, directing. I feel like you're catering. I feel like you know a little bit of everything. You're gripping, you're like, you know.

Zoë Poindexter: boom, Mike. I remember tap dancing, like and all the things. I did take tap dance as as a child, so I probably could break that out. But yeah, so a revolution called love is over a year and a half in the making at this point. Um it came to me uh I came across actually through Georgetown, I came across a request for proposals from um actually University of Berk Berkeley. They have uh a school that had done a lot of research into the science of love. And 2025, you know, there was a changeover politically, so people were experiencing some um fear and uh hatred, discrimination. So, you know, I think they were probably like, you know what we need?

We need more love. So um unfortunately I did not get that that uh grant, but I was like, you know, I think this is a journey that I meant to be on because four years or three years prior, I had read Bell Hooks' book all about love, and that changed my entire concept of what love is and what it could be. Because I really do think up into that point, I you know, we say I love you, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I don't think we really think about love as an action and and more than just a feeling and more than just romantic. Because I think up until that point that's what I had been chasing, and I thought, honestly, something was wrong with me. But then I read that book and I understood, no, no, no, no, no. You were experiencing and meant to experience all different types of love.

But it may not just be the type of love that we are shown in the media um that, you know, uh hinges on a most of the times a uh, you know, uh uh uh heterosexual relationship. So that was in the past, then I came upon this RSP, didn't get it, but I was like, I still need to tell this story. And in my research, I came across um a holiday that was created in DC, Washington, DC, in the nineties called Black Love Day. And I'm like, I've lived here for almost ten years now. I've never heard about this. What is this? Black Love Day. And I I just remember calling the founder and being like, hey, I'm I I'm I want to make a I want to make something about your holiday. Can I come celebrate your holiday? And she was like, uh, okay, I don't know who you are, but sure, whatever you want to do. I showed up. I showed up in in the colors because the colors of Black Love Day are purple, which happens to be my favorite color. I showed up, it was a seven hour long ceremony. I was there for the entire seven hours, and I came back saying, Yes, this needs to be made into a film because for many reasons, right?

It has principles that I think are so important for people to know because I think they have the power to change um our lives individually and our lives on a community and global scale. So that's the first reason. The second reason is I didn't see a lot of people my age at this gathering. There were a lot of elders and there were some children there with their family members, but it definitely seemed like a certain type of person who is there. Older, maybe already more spiritual, I would say, not necessarily religious, but spiritual, and already kind of involved with some sort of like organizing, especially organizing rooted in like I would say, you know, not necessarily civil rights, but like Black Panther movements and like uh those who are more in touch with African centric um uh religions or holidays already to begin with. So I just felt like there was an opportunity to kind of bring this to a broader audience using my skills as a journalist, as a producer, but also no longer letting the idea of not showing my bias influence how I tell this story.

I have a very clear bias. I believe in this, and I think everyone needs to know about it and needs to start practicing it as well too. But my strength has always been in letting other people make their case and then weaving that together in a way that I believe will be entertaining for an audience so that they enjoy this what is going to be an educational experience for them without you know being a preachy experience.

Um so that that was the inspiration, and and your next question is connected, actually, so I can I can just jump into it about um how the film is structured. So Black Love Day asks that people practice five tenets of Black Love on Black Love Day, which is February 13th, intentionally the day before Valentine's Day, to remind people that it's not always about the romance and it's not always about the material things. But the five tenets are love for the creator, love for yourself, love for family, love for community, and love for the black diaspora. And so to me, that was a natural framework for telling multiple stories within one story because they are all connected, they build upon each other. But being a first-time um documentary feature, uh feature documentary filmmaker, I also knew I had to be realistic with the way that I was going to produce this story. I unfortunately am not unfortunately, but you know, editing and and filming, shooting, those are not my skills.

I I cannot do that. So I have to work within having other uh crew members who can do that labor, and there is a cost associated with that. So we can't spend weeks, months, years in the field following these people, but what we will do is introduce these people and allow them the opportunity to tell their stories, perhaps in a 10-minute uh or so segment, each 10-minute segment being represented by one of these tenets and having a person whose life's work and mission embodies one of those tenets. So the founder of Black Love Day, Mama Iohandy Kendi, uh, who is also the founder of the African American Holiday Association, she's gonna represent love for the creator, because it's a little double entendre there, where she created the holiday, but also it's about her relationship with the creator, with um, you know, who she believes to be the creator of the universe and gave her the source material to even create this holiday. So it's gonna be a lot about how she stays in touch with spirit, and she does that through breathology and through uh meditation and through pouring libations to the ancestors. It's this whole relationship that she has that keeps her connected to the creator, and it's important to have that sort of relationship because it reminds you that this world is bigger than just you and yourself. Like there's something out there that uh is is making all the things happen, and when we connect to that divine things can happen, I see that, you know, even with me getting the inspiration to create this documentary.

That was a divine experience. So that's just one out of the five chapters. Um, there will be other uh featured subjects for the other chapters, and then we will also show what a Black Love Day relationship ceremony looks like in one of the chapters, and then weaved in between, we will have um, and this is where that idea that I spoke about earlier comes into play. So my 3:30 in the morning uh idea was what if we used actors to demonstrate what it broadly looks like to practice each of these tenets because the stories that we get from the subjects, they're gonna be specific to them.

But I still want to show people there are more ways that you can practice these forms of love. So we're gonna have the actors, but over top of the actors, there's gonna be voiceover narration from the community. And we are actually filming two of those uh community interview days uh this coming Sunday and Monday, where we will be asking black Washingtonians to define what those five tenants of black love means to them.

So there will be a short film with all of those responses, and then a select few of those responses will be used in the feature film to transition in between the feature chapters.

Rob Lee: You're you're a creative one. I like that because um when you said it, I was just like, you should just do audio and then use that as and then you said it, I was like, Yeah. So that's that sounds amazing, and you know, continue success in in just bringing that vision to fruition and being very creative with sort of the uh it's not problem solving, but I think most creative folks is problem solving.

It's like I have a different way to skin this cat, and I'm gonna figure it out. But also really like highlighting and and giving folks their flowers, so like Mama Io, you you you're you're you're really like highlighting some things that I think that gets missed more often than not. And it is funny, there's a student in my my class that's that mentioned, yeah, you know what I do a uh podcast about love and just do the the teachings of Bell Hooks.

I was like, I hear ya. And it I I I it's a little flowy, but this is a bit more you know, resolute a bit more, it has structure and foundation and it's just sounds really interesting. So I'm I'm looking forward to where we go at with this because this is uh this film is like in production. This film is like happening, living, breathing, and it's covering I think the the other piece about it, like one of the things, and then I'm I'll move it to rapid fire. One of the things that I always look at when someone gets the opportunity, whether it be at the the highest sort of spot of I'm in the Oscars and I got best picture. I'm like, all right, what's the next thing that you're gonna do?

And people get up there and they'll say their sort of social justice oriented things, and then it's just like, oh, you're playing a slave in your next movie? Why? Oh, the check. Oh, I get it. And my my sort of point is when someone is at their power and they're able to make something that they care about because it's sort of like this this disconnect at times of I understand how booking and all of that stuff works, but you know, it's just sort of talking down when you have that opportunity of like, yeah, you know, I'm only gonna do this, and it's like I see a lot of white men on that cast and that crew.

I thought you were all the hiring sisters. But seeing that you're taking your time, your energy, your talent, the money, all of that different stuff to really present using the journalistic thing and and investigate in the literal and in the the figurative sense, but to something that is of our community and the structure of it really framing that out. I I just I don't know, I'm salivating a little bit, thinking about it, and I just think about so many places it can go. And I mean, I and I read, I read, I read Baltimore is in your background as well. I don't know. I thought I thought you were just a DC girly, but it's like, oh no, no, Baltimore.

Zoë Poindexter: Yes, yes, I'm from I was born and raised in Baltimore until I was about eleven years old. I had a most like not true. No, but I had the most creative without going to an art school, right? I had the most creative uh upbringing in Baltimore, I would say, because my parents never put me in public school, actually, is why I did every single type of school. I swear, every other type of school, um uh aside from public school until they moved us to West Virginia when I was eleven. And so that's where I spent the other 11 years of my life until I moved to DC um around when I was 22. So I spent wow, actually now that I think about it, I'll turn so it'll be almost eleven years that I've lived in DC in a couple of years. So yeah.

Rob Lee: Just chunking up thirds of your life in different places.

Zoë Poindexter: But I But I I love it here. Yeah, I love it in DC.

Rob Lee: And the reason I mention it is like I see and definitely this is going into our territory, but I think it's really important. I I see folks where I see content being made, see film being made, and I see the work that goes into it. And you know, folks will reach out to me, hey, you know, I want to cover this this film. Like I like the idea and I like doing the research for your film.

I'm glad we were to talk about it. And I talked I listen to folks and they have the Baltimore thing, and I find that we're not getting an o a lot of opportunities to cover just the uniqueness that's here, right? And when I see people make stuff that they feel like it's unique, but it's in the shadow of the wire, it's to kind of diss the wire a little bit. And I'm like, no, you're you still got the wirest name in your mouth.

Like what are you doing? Like this is prestige. Your film, while it might be well intended and shot really well and all of that stuff, the SEO is gonna say you're leveraging the wire.

And I I get real weird about that. And I think it speaks to there was a interview earlier in the archive. I talked to this dude named Sultan Salah Houdin, and he's one of the creators of the show Southside that was on um HBO. And it's about Southside Chicago.

It's him, his brother, and another and a couple other friends. And I was surprised I got the interview because this dude had an HBO show, right? And I just reached out and we talked, and after we rapped, he was just like, so you gonna make a show about Baltimore comedy? Because he's like, I feel like you should you should do that. Because I was just telling him about the sort of corollaries between like sort of authentically showing Chicago and Shirak, right?

But showing the real thing. And it's like that's the thing I want people to make. I want people to cover the documentary thing. I want people to do something like that, like what you're doing.

I want you to come up here and do something like that with for here. And instead of being in the shadow of something that's already stamped. You know what I mean? Like that's that's stamped. It's it's it's done. And that's why I'm so excited listening to how you were describing your project. That's sort of my roundabout way to give you your flowers here.

Zoë Poindexter: Thank you. No, I c I completely understand, and even I, you know, I recognize that like this doesn't exist without you know, me being able to stand on the shoulders of so many others, but I do I I agree with you in a sense of like why are you telling the story, especially if it's already been a story that has been told. So I think the angle is important, but also for me personally, I want to tell positive stories, and for me, I want to tell a story that is not a cliche.

We have way too many, in my opinion, cliched stories about black people, black communities. I I often ask myself, why do we need this again? Who is this actually being made for? A lot of times I want to say it's not actually being made for us.

Rob Lee: It's it's not, and when folks jump for it, like, you know, I'll hate watch I look. I finished watching recently, because I you know it was on to be. I went through all of the 'cause it's it's it's like an interesting thing where to be you can have something that's quote unquote content that has like a black face leading it, black creator leading it. And it's cool. It

seems like there's opportunities that are there, but what what what are the images that we're putting out there? And I I will say I enjoyed myself watching sling single uh black female, watch all three of them. I was like, these are terrible.

Zoë Poindexter: However, too, yeah.

Rob Lee: I was like, these are bad. However, I enjoy the hell out of these. And you know, but it also is leveraging something else. The SEO yet again is playing a single white female, but then

Zoë Poindexter: it's I was about to say, is this about the same movie? Yeah, that would be crazy.

Rob Lee: Absolutely they touch on it one time because there's a whole static element in it, and then they kind of abandon it. And I'm watching it, and I was like, why is every guy getting murdered in this movie? I was like I was like, everyone's got the big weaves and I was like, I hear you. I can understand what the sensibilities are here. And you you see it and you can't engage in conversations with folks. Yeah,

you can't you can't engage with conversations with folks, but I think something, and this is the last thing I'll say. I think something that is as you're touching on that has blackness rooted in it, that has sort of thinking about blackness in a way that has existed because you touched on the elders being you know the folks that you're seeing, but something that feels real, something that is positive, and I always get a little I'm more of a realist in in a in a sense, and I think it also is is real. It's like this exists, this is an event, it's been an event for a while, and it's something that is not in the shadow of, but it is hey, this is also a thing to look at. Mm-hmm.

Zoë Poindexter: It's flipping or I don't want to say no, it kind of is flipping a narrative. It's like there's a narrative that may exist, um, but it's really more of a stereotype, and this is like you said, hey, this exists, this is the way that people have been living and operating and changing the course of their life for many, many years as a result of and more people could be doing that too. And for me, it's a way of preserving um this this uh cultural um history this cultural history, um, you know, uh celebration for future generations.

Rob Lee: Yeah, and you know, I've I wanted to spend a little bit more time giving giving your documentary to do before moving into the rapid fire portion. And here we are in the rapid fire. Be afraid, be very afraid. That's that's a reference to a horror movie. Yeah.

Zoë Poindexter: Wait, what do you want? Wait, wait, wait.

Rob Lee: Oh, come on. You you lost a lot of credit right there. Be afraid, be very afraid. The fly? Yeah.

Zoë Poindexter: Oh the fly, the original one, or the one with uh Jeff Bloom uh Goldblum, Goldbloom.

Rob Lee: That is the original one. Oh my god, that is. That's the original one. My God. That's definitely not one of my favorite horror movies.

Rob Lee: I did a review on it, and I it is with my buddy Isaiah. Um and we're we're watching it because I've done a like people that come on this pod, I'll have them do the review thing with me. And

I've asked them, it was like a series of like questions that I don't know if it needs to answer, but I'm gonna ask. And he's like, go ahead and shoot. I was like, so as his body is falling apart, right? He

opens the medicine cabinet. I was like, is that his penis in there? And he's like, it is. It is. He's like, I froze it at that scene. That is his penis.

Zoë Poindexter: I see, I I definitely know I've not seen that movie in a long time because I do not remember that part. And it's not because I'm not a body horror fan. I like body horror, but that I just think it wasn't really you know what you're getting called.

Rob Lee: No call you're getting a call to come over here to talk movies with me. But uh, okay, here's the first one. And the thing with Rapid Fire, you don't want to overthank these is like what's the first thing that comes to mind. Okay. What is the scariest movie you've ever seen?

Zoë Poindexter: Oh my god. I'm not easily scared. Okay. Uh talk to me. I did see it by myself, and I had to cover my eyes at certain scenes because I just did not know what's gonna happen, and it's a loud movie, so I I had to cover my eyes.

Rob Lee: Talk to me is good. Um there are elements of the first smile that I didn't like, especially when like the the sister's head kind of does this dangly thing.

Zoë Poindexter: I was like, Y'all can all go to hell. I was like, I I was like, Babylon Tang, put up the crossing for my fingers. No, I enjoyed that one. I brought people to see that one just because I wanted to see how scary they would get.

Rob Lee: I love doing it. It's another throwback one worth watching. Um I think it's from 1981 called Possession.

Zoë Poindexter: I've seen that one. Yep, I've seen that one. Yep, yep.

Rob Lee: That one's this is a bad relationship. You need to get out of that.

Zoë Poindexter: So sorry to like go off topic, but like I I just saw Boots Riley's I Love Boosters. Yeah. Okay, uh spoiler for if you keep keep this in, but uh uh Lake Stanfield's character. I feel like that was a callback to to possession. Okay. The fact that he's like a demonic.

Rob Lee: Okay, I'm with it. I'm with it.

Zoë Poindexter: I swear it is, yeah.

Rob Lee: It's it's funny you you mentioned Boots Riley. So uh name a filmmaker you'd like to take out for lunch. There's a lot of great restaurants in DC, and it's like, hey, you know, they talk about what is it, 500,000 or lunch with Jay-Z. It's like, I don't want neither. I want the filmmaker that had lunch with me. Exactly.

Zoë Poindexter: Ooh, okay. I have to say Ryan Kugler. Really at this moment, I'm so curious about his brain and also the fact that Proximity Media is uh rebooting as much as I hated a reboot reboot, but the X-Files, I think it's such incredible series to reboot. So I would love to take him out for dinner or lunch, whatever one.

Rob Lee: Because he just comes there, he comes to mustache, he's just ready for it.

Zoë Poindexter: It's really great. Like, I'm not even gonna try to do an impression of his accent.

Rob Lee: It it's a it's a powerful accent. One of the things I uh share, I I was uh talking with my brother about I have a younger brother, and uh we were talking about um centers, and he was just like, yo, why are you smoke and stack? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you're kind of just both of them. I was like, well, you know, Mike B, you know, Mike, that's what I call him. Mike B is an Aquarius. So I was just like, boom. Mike B.

Zoë Poindexter: I mean that. Um, I just love that he's his muse, right? I think that is like the dream as a director, producer to have an actor who is your muse. I mean, we see that with Spike Lee with Denzel and with Ryan Kugler with uh Michael B, and I'm just like, okay, who's my muse gonna be? I can't wait.

Rob Lee: That's that's actually a podcast idea I've been playing with of it has to be black collaboration, director and muse. And there are so many because technically uh I think Spike has a few of those situations that I mean if he does one more, he can have two generations. If he does one more with um uh what is his name? Um John David Washington, that means he'll have that is because you you already have like you know, black Klansmen, so it's like Yeah.

Zoë Poindexter: Okay, okay, generations.

Rob Lee: See, look, I I'm I'm a podcast I think about these things. Like make the content I want to see. Um that is a good idea. So in that, you talk touching on muses. So what is the strongest trait, just one trait of a good working relationship?

Zoë Poindexter: Uh Bancer. That makes sense. Like being able to bounce off of each other, just like the ideas flow. Um if if it feels uh if there's any sort of resistance, then that's not a good relationship, I feel like the the idea should just be bouncing.

Rob Lee: I will coin the phrase right now, riffability. Yeah.

Zoë Poindexter: The riffability.

Rob Lee: I like that. Yeah, in a world of gripability, and everything is a grip. Riffability.

Zoë Poindexter: Okay. Now here's the last rapid fire question. Uh what is a toe tail sign for you that an idea is is good versus an idea that needs a a bit more seasoning. Um and I'll do this, the sprinkling. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Zoë Poindexter: Um I I would say the way that it makes me feel upon hearing it, and then again, I have a very associative brain, so it it goes with that riffing, because that's what riffing is in here, right? How can how quickly can I associate with what it is that you are saying? And so at first glance, or first time hearing an idea, if I'm not, you know, feeling it in my body or my emotions, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then

we may have to examine it at a later time once I've been exposed to more. I mean, my whole life I feel like is an example of this. Ideas come to me, perhaps we don't do anything with them, they stay hidden in the background. Then as we expose ourselves to more, the possibility of that idea coming into fruition makes more sense. It makes itself more clear. Good, good.

Rob Lee: Yeah, I actually lied. I do realize there is one more. I t I I moved it around and I realized there is one last rapid fire question. Uh this is w this is literally a one-word answer. Is creativity a gift or skill? Let's go ahead and overthink that one.

Zoë Poindexter: I Well, because I have strong opinions on this question, and I wish I could say more than one word, and I will actually after I give you the word. I think it is a gift. Oh,

wait, no. No, I no, I I think it's a skill because I think you need to uh to to use it like a muscle. You need to practice it. So that's why I think it's a skill. Um because my th my thinking is not everyone utilizes it, but I do think everyone has it. So that's what would make it not a gift, right? Because if it was a gift, only certain people would have it. But I argue with this with people all the time that I think everyone is creative, whether you are making art or whether you are solving problems, that is creativity. It's just the way you think about it. It's good.

Rob Lee: It's well thought out. Also, arguing with people. Oh, sounds like an Aries thing floating out there. Yeah, you know what? This is why you're wrong. And this is and this is why I I am right.

Zoë Poindexter: It's so funny. I'm like, I don't consider myself an argumentative person, but I do enjoy arguing because I'm like, no, you are.

Rob Lee: Look, I might have an LLC sitting out there named Contrarian Aquarian.

Zoë Poindexter: So it's just there. I love it. I love it. So pay me to argue with you.

Rob Lee: It's just me sitting at a table and just like you know you're wrong, right? And this is why. Uh so here's the last sort of bit of business we have here, and then we'll go into shameless plugs, but here's the stage advice question. So I've been thinking more and more about the work that we're making, the merit, whether it's disposable. I always think about that in doing this this podcast, and um, you know, I don't want to put out something just for the sake of putting it out there. And

wondering whether it's legacy worthy. I I think of those old interviews where you'll have someone sit down, like Bosch sit down with someone doing an interview, and that interview is part of the full story of that twenty-eight-year-old's life, you know what I mean? So I think about the meaning, I think about the lasting effects of our work. So when you think about, you know, your production company, you think about a revolution called love. How are you hoping it's received, if not considered? Because

those those are sort of two different things with a little play there. How do you hope it's received if not considered over the next five to ten years from now? Yeah.

Zoë Poindexter: I hope it is received as an a spark, right? A spark of um setting the tone to have conversation around what we think love is. Um I do not claim that this documentary is gonna have all the answers, that it's gonna be the definitive guide of what love is, but what I want to encourage people to do is to examine what their relationship is with love, what their preconceived notions are with love, and whether or not they are living in a way that matches those values when it comes to love. Um what makes me so excited about this project is that it is tied to a holiday. So it's gonna have perpetual relevance. This is gonna be part of my life forever. I'm already thinking about the ways that you know we will continue to engage people past just like the premier date of the documentary. And

it it it also lives in this universe of black African American cultural holidays, holy days, right? There are so many of them. And when you when you talked about the legacy, I mean so much of the work that I do as a journalist is I watch like thank God for YouTube, right? Because I watch Tony Morrison, I watch Bell Hooks, I watch James Baldwin, um, and so many other black thought leaders, Malcolm X, I just actually rewatched um um Spike Lee's film the other day. But

they live in this same universe too because they have had so many thoughts. Um Martin Luther King has his whole his book The Strength to Love, like this is something that has been talked about for as forever whether or not people have realized um the power that love has beyond just feeling good and feeling cared for within you know for yourself or for your own family like so many of the things that these activists, these thought leaders have done has been out of their love for us as um a black people as a black community as a black uh uh uh uh people and so I'm just really proud to think that this will live in that legacy that it'll be part of that mission um it's that ongoing struggle I guess uh this to me exists in a world of we are no longer in that struggle we have unified ourselves despite knowing that we are not a monolith and that we are actively working together with each other um for that outcome of being able to live with dignity uh with equity and with our needs met and cared for and

Rob Lee: I think I'll say just to make it feel like it's in in one fantastic um really really good insight there and just to make it feel and frame it as a uh advice piece I would invite others to consider those same things in their work

Zoë Poindexter: A that's why documentary is i is such a great medium in my opinion because you don't just make the I mean you could just make the film but in my opinion it's what does it matter if you are not thinking about the impact of the film as well too that's why it's so important to be thinking about who are you making this for how are you going to reach them the short film is such a great way for me to get the community to already buy in to this work that I am making. They are the audience so they should be part of the making it and I will continuously go back to them for feedback, improvement and involvement in the impact.

Rob Lee: So we'll see you at um LoveCon 2032

Zoë Poindexter: with the

Rob Lee: Q with the QA for your film.

Zoë Poindexter: I didn't realize that was a convention is that really a convention or you're saying we're gonna make it we're

Rob Lee: gonna make it we're gonna make it I'm sure I can hit someone with a head and just take the name and right I don't really care I'm a goon.

Zoë Poindexter: Let me let me look into that into that uh dot com right now.

Rob Lee: Yeah let me get that you know doing a DBA pre so that's kind of it for the the the the the pod um we got all the questions and all of that's been covered thank you for doing a rapid fire we had some really good insight there on um throughout the conversation and so there's two things I want to do as we close out here. One, I want to thank you for coming on and spending some time with me. This

is truly been a treat long time coming and happy we've done it. And um two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners sort of anything this is a film that is in production so feel free to share anything that you would like to share about your film your production company you the floor is yours.

Zoë Poindexter: Mm-hmm thank you so much so yes um I am again Zoe Poindexter producer and director of Defining Love, Voices of Black DC, a short oral history film uh funded in part by Humanities DC and also the producer and director of a revolution called Love a feature documentary film inspired by Black Love Day founded by Mama Io Handy Kendi. Um both films are currently in production we are also crowdfunding to cover production costs so the crowdfund and more information about uh the film more information about Mama Io more information about myself as well as our social media handles can be found at Black Love Documentary dot com. It is technically a link tree so you could go to Link T R dot EE slash black love documentary to find us our handles on Instagram are black love blacklovedocfilm. film um and on Facebook it is black love documentary film. Um yeah we are looking for you know financial support we are looking for uh people to support the project to share the project with their communities and organizations so we can show that there is an audience that is interested um in this production happening uh that they believe it is something that their communities their families, their churches, schools, civic, cultural, social organizations need to know about. And

we are looking to cast for the filming that we are doing. This well, I guess at the time of this will come out, that'll already happen. But we will have another two days of filming sometime sometime toward the end of 2026 to finish filming the short film. And

then we have about 10 production days that will be remaining for the feature documentary film. And the only thing that's keeping us from doing it right now, I would say, is funding. But we are looking into grants. We are looking into major donors, uh, foundations, and um again, the crowdfund is a huge help, and that information can be found at Black Love Documentary.com. Um, yeah.

Rob Lee: There you have it, folks. I'm gonna again thank Zoe Poindexter for coming on to the Truth and It's Hard. We made it happen, and I really appreciate the conversation. And for Zoe, I am Rob Lee, saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it, and we're gonna be able to do that.