Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth In This Art, your source for conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host Rob Lee. Today, I am thrilled to run it back and welcome back my next guest who first joined me on this podcast back in 2021. He is a Baltimore-born artist and storyteller known for pioneering shoe mural art with work collected by major creators, artists, actors, musicians, and featured on red carpets, galleries, and television shows.
He also leads community workshops nationwide through his studio using wearable art for healing and cultural preservation. So please welcome back to the program Akio Evans. Welcome back to the podcast.
Akio Evans: Yes, indeed, man. I'm so happy to be back, man. It's a lot to catch up on and normally when we see each other face to face, whether it's at an event or in different environments as far as work or whatever have you, being though that we haven't been able to have those opportunities, I'm glad that we're able to catch up.
Rob Lee: 100%. It's like we're back with the small eye crew. I got my glasses on. I mean, we got the effects, man.
Akio Evans: I mean, I was looking for my green car. What is this again? You know, but I was looking for my car. Because I was I couldn't find it. So I stuck with the 48. Because in the middle, I was like, dang, I can't find my car. Because this guy squeezed some car hearts, man. So yeah, man.
Rob Lee: I interviewed Ernest Shaw last week, right? And he was wearing like one of these like sort of full brim hats or what have you. And it had this tricolor band on it. I have one in the studio that was on the floor. So it got to the wrap the fire question. I put it on.
Akio Evans: And I was playing bro. He was just like, real? Yeah, yeah. No, man. It's a blessing to see that, man. Because granted, like, you know, I've been loving fashion and not being able to get certain things at different parts of my life, you know, and to be able to get them now. It means more to me.
And then even saying, you know, you would have to be putting it together. You know what I mean? I love it, man. So it complements, you know, the city of where we from that. Yeah, we've been we've been doing this too. You know, so yeah.
Rob Lee: So let me set it up where we're this this season has been about running it back really. And it's been in the block with some of my favorite guests and prioritizing that. And we talked back in 2021 is hard to believe it's been four years. Time flies when you're out there dominating the world. So what have you been up to lately? Reintroduce yourself to us. Just give us that sort of introductory spiel. The floor is yours, please.
Akio Evans: Man, well, many, many know me as a filmmaker in the early 2000s or your guy who just made shirts, but now I'm known as the world renowned artist. I just don't do I went from doing customs to now doing shoe murals is what I call them.
And Nick, David, shoe mirrorless. I found that that's actually something that I wanted to separate from nothing wrong with customs. But when you're thinking about when you get into the art world and, you know, somebody wants to contact you to actually, if you have any of the pieces that I've had in, let's just say 2014 and you have the piece. Now they're able to pay you a $2,000 stipend to house the art for an exhibition at Stevenson University or Micah because they, you know, and that's what I kind of like. That's the world I'm stepping into in the ecosystem of fine art, but not necessarily turning away from just the custom art or just art in itself, but also creating collective items out of warrable art.
Because when you wear clothes, clothes never go out of style. We just started talking about it in the beginning of this conversation about cards. So when you have a, now when you have a traditional car piece that has its wear and tear or the cabin pillow pieces, then you can actually put stories on those warrable art pieces. And it's an item that you're trying to throw away, you know, sustainability, the, you know, trying to save the earth. So it goes into a whole different other thing rather than you just putting that shoe, throwing that shoe and being in the landfill, why not transform that shoe into art so that way it can be on somebody's mat or in a museum or on display, you know? Yeah.
Rob Lee: And touching on some of the types of like base materials, I'll say, and sourcing, you mentioned car hard evens, calipelar that, you know, traditionally noticed as like work wear and it's durable. It's good bones. Like I've had conversations with folks who designed suits and they're like, no, car hard is really good. It's or was really good.
Some of the more vintage pieces I know that some of their stuff has been in question recently in terms of style and structure, but some of those pieces, you know, a good piece when you see it, but to add your own stamp to it, your own slavery on pastiche is, is where the sort of art comes in the wearable art component. Yes.
Akio Evans: Yes. The art of pearl is what I call it. And that basis from my mother, as I shared before on 2021, it was me starting this art of pearl journey to make an ode to my mother who passed away.
We have a heart attack. So I always like blended in the heart and the heart wear or, you know, the arts. The last few letters in heart is art.
So I've always been able to identify what brands represent that same thing. So again, back to car heart. And then if you look at the original car, heart logo, they had the heart as the logo or what you think of calm desk. You know, the, the utilize the, this is Japanese brand, but the calm desk is French.
It means play like boys. I've always made a parody out of it because anything like I said, that connects with the heart, I want to infuse that into my art. So because, you know, heart disease is, is ran rapid in our communities and, you know, transforming that pain into purpose has allowed me to do.
Or it focuses been on the heart this heart that, and then I wound up throwing pieces in 2022 collaborating with actress Dominic Thorn for the iron heart series, you know, for Marvel. So I look at that, that this is, is what kitchen, come on, said, and is, um, I think it was either rich spirit or one of these songs. He said, um, I'm not a rapper. I'm a, I'm a, he's like, he, he goes along with saying he's a, he's a medium, you know, and I believe that we all have that ability to tap in just like how you have conversations with individuals or you already have a mind who you want to have a conversation with and you may not have a conversation with them or have this set up just yet, but then eventually the alignment happens and you are already well prepared for that, um, interview.
So, um, and that's what's been chasing me down with when it comes to this art thing, whereas, you know, there's so many stories that I have in sicknesses and certain individual moments that we'll dive in if we have the opportunity to, but it's just really amazing where, um, you know, create not just art, but just in the mode of creating, being creative, um, it really, um, is miracle territory. It's to say the least. Yeah.
Rob Lee: So let's get to the heart of the matter. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we got connected and, you know, when we, when we, when we did the interview is back in and big in profit station north in 2021, 2021. And just in a, and I'll never forget this. I was in a Baltimore celebrity moment.
It was like Kandwani was outside the walkings is outside. They're headed to dinner and I was just like, I just wrapped up this interview and I was like, yeah, I'm over here with like legends, little old me. And so with those names and you and seeing sort of the trajectory that folks have been on during this time, you know, that's Baltimore right there. So how is the city like influence you being a person with these connections here, having these deep roots here, being from here, how's it, you know, influence you as an artist?
Akio Evans: It's, it's a school to me a lot because when you think about the, the rat pack, you know, or individuals from that era, you know, they were that because they all had their time together. And of course they spread it out like Richard Pryor or any other individual had spread out and done their own thing. But, you know, you take a piece from that chapter and you're able to wherever you go, say, Hey, this is this or this is that. And, you know, just like how we come from, will we come from, but then it's crazy because you always get the conversations of, are you from?
Yeah. And because the outside world sees Baltimore as this place that they've seen. And, you know, I think that knowing people like you, knowing, uh, creatives and being able to step into the world, you know, not just within our, the city, but just abroad, um, you know, it's just the example that we're more than what you think that we are when being in Cleveland, Ohio. And I was going to be going there within the next week or so.
This will be my third time this year going, speaking to the juvenile detention center, who got the juvenile detention center. It's amazing because a lot of those kids, I don't even know how they have access to, uh, the internet, but, you know, or the Jews ski, uh, you know, could have been records, but they've seen, you know, this lingo even prior to even the Jews ski segment, they've seen what people have been posting on the TikTok. And again, that's not a show that is, as what we know, the critically acclaimed show, that's not, you know, what they've seen, uh, on the corner, uh, or any of those shows.
This is what the cable television now is, exists in our very own pocket. And then we have to be the ones to be like, you know, to kind of like how you said, um, off camera, you know, the guide to say, you know, okay, yeah, this is this, but I'm going to show you something different. And, um, I feel like that's important. You know, I agree.
Rob Lee: I, you know, I find that in, I try to be cynical about certain things because it's like you see things, you observe things, and you, especially if you're doing like work in that area, and you see that suddenly folks now suddenly are aware that Baltimore club music is a thing or that we have all of this. And then sort of their version of it, or their stamping of it is now the approved version of how we talk about it and how we explore it. And they want to serve as the guide, but someone a bit more qualified, a bit more depth in it.
They already been doing this. And I see it all the time. Um, there have been, I got a lot of illegitimate kids out there to put it that way. A lot of, a lot of people, you know, kind of biting my style. I was like, don't you boy meme?
I was like, you took my hopes. Yeah. Thanks.
Thanks. And, you know, it's almost like flattery, but I don't take it that way. It's just like, because I don't own it in that way. But it's like acknowledge it because you don't want it to be in that.
And I'll share this. I have a ex-girlfriend who is from St. Louis. Right. Well, she was talking about like, this was like 2010, 2012 and that time frame. And she was just talking about the accent. She was like, you don't even sound like that. She was like, y'all gasping it up kind of heavy. She was like, we have a little bit of that. And then she sounded like Nellie for a second, but she was like, we don't sound that OD with it. So somebody's presenting that we all sound like this. And that was sort of the, I'm going to do a St. Louis accent, but then it's just like, it's exaggerated. That's really exaggerated. And taking it to here when we see these videos that are really amping up that Baltimore thing, I don't like that.
Akio Evans: And the thing of it is that that's why I found myself talking to the kids. I was like, oh, wow, kids, can you say this? Can you say that? And I was always telling them, I said, well, have you ever heard of that? And some of them haven't.
I'm like, have you ever heard of E40? And if some of them say yes, I'm like, well, you know, it was genius that this individual has taken with the world has, you know, scrutinized, craft on his teas, this about as, okay, we damn if we do, we damn if we don't. So, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to make them all. And when I step onto this platform, I'm going to make sure that I utilize what I've already been doing in my career, in my rap career and shout to me.
I believe he's a genius to be able to, but also to show that like, okay, what you guys are going to be teasing anyway, because, you know, we go to different places and we get teased on all the time with saying to the same dude, it don't matter how much you're trying to dress it, it don't matter how much you can, you know, read and all that other stuff, you know what I It's going to come out, your bottom waxes are going to come out and always share with people when I'm in different spaces. I'm like, well, Baltimore is so special because when you think about the Lord Baltimore flag and, you know, the, the, the, the, what is it? What do you want to call the medieval times? So when I went in and said to that and do, Baltimore has never let go of that tongue, I believe you think they'll flair that dragon and then to the pink that, that is when you think about like, okay, it was a time before this time. And, you know, of course we've had different layers, you know, of course with Frederick Douglass, I'm sorry, Frederick Bailey, people don't know about that Anna Murray Douglas. She was the one who is Frederick Bailey, never met Anna Murray Douglas and married Anna Murray Douglas. We would have known, we would have not known who Frederick Douglas was. You know, that was his first wife, but it's stories like that, that I am, and I'm like, wow, I wish that, you know, more of the people know about the different layers of Baltimore and what these things come from.
Everything is a lineage to something special. And then the stories that that Anna Murray Douglas thing, I just discovered actually last year, as I was in Red Emmas and I was looking through a book that I seen Frederick Douglas image. I said, wow, this is cool.
And I seen Anna there. And I said, why haven't I not known about this all my entire life? Why hasn't the school taught about Anna Murray Douglas, about how she, you know, sold her feather bed to buy a New York train ticket and how she, you know, was a saintress and how she said, hey, I'm going for you to, you know, be free. You, I'll have to sew you up a sailor's outfit for you to be able to escape to New York and she met him in New York and I mean, she reunited with him in New York and they married each other. And then she died shortly after at the young age of 44. And then when he remarried, his second wife was like, Hey, you know, can we um, get rid of these clothes? She's, and he was like, no, because that was the only thing that he had that he felt that he was connected to. And he's like, you're just trying to sell them.
She was like, no, I feel a spirit in this house. And he was loyal to her, even all the way up to the time that he transitioned. He still had Anna Murray Douglas clothes because how do you get rid of the very garment of the person who had it had pretty much helped you be free.
That's so cool. You know, and then all the things that we see him wear, she had, you know, she was a part of that, the cloaks and stuff like that, because he was a well-dressed man, educated man, but history has forgotten. Anna Murray Douglas being from fells point ball to more A and B church.
She already had money. History has forgotten that. But when I put that history on holding anything that he was not surface. Why do you need a man's collections is to educate people on what was here first?
When I'm doing the Baltimore State Air Force one drop, I'm educating people how Baltimore State Air Force one. Yeah. St. Louis, yeah. New York, yeah.
Yeah. Chicago, we did it in 84. You want to be able to Chicago, you want to be able to nickname them.
Gair, Rose or Phaezos. If we didn't say that was one New York, you wouldn't be able to nickname them uptowns. Had we not say that force one, we're not saying you never stopped wearing Air Force ones.
What we're saying is that in 1984, the city of Baltimore, uh, Hurl Rudon and Paul Blankin and went to Nike headquarters to do that. And what I do and every piece that I've done since you met me, Rod, Rob, I've been able to put an insert of that history with us. You're collecting my art with Dr. Drake collecting my art and they should tell us. So I'm sometimes I don't even care about the photo op anymore.
I just care about do they, uh, somebody like C.F .J. Rainer commissioned me at the same day that I had a workshop. So I wasn't able to present the shoes myself, but the mayor Scott, Mayor Scott had presented the shoes. But at the same time I had a workshop where people came in from different parts of the country to take my Baltimore State Air Force one workshop at Gatoramatease and I brought Paul into that. At first people was like, Oh, I'm not an artist.
I don't want to do it. But then my man Paul started talking about the history. Everybody was rushing to make a piece because they wanted their peace sign. So, um, that's the power of community. That's the power of not forgetting where we come from and not necessarily being in, you know, engulfed in the, the, the, the culture of not being fully consumed about the culture, but re, um, shifting the mindset that, yo, it's other ways that we can preserve history because, you know, most kids don't want to read a book. Most kids like if they like, well, if they have similar to me, some people don't feel confident going into a museum. I was in my thirties where I finally started going back and it wasn't a school trip, you know, um, and then why is that? It shouldn't be, you know, same as a coffee shop. I wasn't confident going into a coffee shop.
Um, and, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's something that I feel like we all have to, you know, kind of like going to a new territory, just like art has to go into a new territory in order for it to be the art that it is or going to a new environment for it to be appreciated, this fine art. And I'm able to have collectors. I'm able to, as you see behind me, this is a canvas piece that I've created. And, um, when you met me, I was just doing shoes. People been telling me like you, you've been telling me people like, yo, you ever thought about doing canvas work? And I was like, nah, I'm, I'm afraid. And then stepping into that now is really amazing. You know, that's great.
Rob Lee: And given us that depth and that connection, I was, I was going to ask, uh, earlier, if you continue the accent of Lord Baltimore.
Akio Evans: Lord Baltimore. That was that right there. Yeah.
Rob Lee: It's, it's, it's so real. And, and there's, you know, so many parts that are there. Like one of the things that stuck out is, you know, you were talking about being in Cleveland and, and having that. And, and I was sharing with you before we got started, you know, my experience in, in Columbus and the first year doing it, I was like, I'll probably not be back up here. I'm good at what I do, but I may or may not be invited back.
So when am I going to do with the opportunity to have in front of me? I was like, I'm going to do the thing that I know I'm going to put people on. I'm going to tell people about Baltimore and I'm going to make the connection. I'm going to do the storytelling thing. So I made the connection to Baltimore, Ohio railroad is sort of, I was like, I'm, you know, I was like, you probably won't hit accent.
I'm going to slip up and say two eventually. And I don't even sound, I don't even sound right saying it, but, um, you know, I was like, I'll slip up, you'll hear Baltimore accents. I'm going to get that out of the way right now. And then I go into some of these things about Baltimore and really owning that that's where I'm from. So this conversation with people who are based in Ohio. And then of course I just, the browns a little bit because I couldn't help it.
Um, but I did that. And one of the coolest moments, you know, in this panel discussion that I was leading into was people came to me. It was like, I really remember your intro and thank you for sharing those details about Baltimore.
I didn't know that about Baltimore. So in my small little slice, I'm trying to do that. And I'm doing that in this sort of contemporary sense of talking to artists, creative folks.
I brought you up in a conversation the other day. Um, you know, artists and creative folks who are in this sort of contemporary, they're alive, they're doing stuff, they're making stuff now. And, you know, it doesn't easily and cleanly fit into this fine art or this culture or this or that.
There's so many overlaps. And because this is the city and it's always deemed as this sort of underdog, I think that we're not underdub, by the way, but I think that we're able to figure out ways to make our own lanes. I think that's the thing that here, and that's the question that's going to be up later, um, because this is very much my lane. And as I was saying before we got started, I'm very protective of my lane.
I don't like my legitimate kids. So when I'm moving to this, this next topic, um, this is sort of a real quick one. I just want to know, like you, you're, you're an individual that when we first, we're talking, you know, we did the first interview, we were, you know, and maybe a same working situation. I can see you, doesn't that's going on, bro? Um, and now you're all here.
Y'all here blowing up, y'all here globetrotting. So talk about making that move to, you know, having this passion project, this, this project that really satisfies the heart, if you will. Um, and then transitioning from, you know, having sort of the dual life of working the day job and doing the creative passion to a full time vocation. What was the thought process that went into that leap?
Akio Evans: And, um, it's, it was a, it was a lot that I was dealing with at the time. I mean, of course, when we know with COVID and everything like that, what we have already been doing before COVID, as far as like nurturing our gifts. Um, we didn't, sometimes the world needed to stop in order to berth certain gifts and creativity out of people. But then when the creators is already in that bubble of creativity prior to the pandemic, it just intensified and that, and, you know, and allow you to really go all in. And for me, you know, um, doing the work by when COVID happened, I initially worked for me, started to go up even more because for one, when the world was still, when we had maybe three or four days or five days on and five days off, for me, I've already was managing the, as what they call, I was already a moonlighter. Yeah.
I mean, burning them in night oil. So if you gave me any days off because of COVID, like, I'm like, what, I get to be what remote or I get the, what, what, I'm running circles, right? So for, but even then, I started to, I started to, I started to, I started to, um, because people would tell me all the time, well, my supervisor was like, yo, like, Keo, you might, they've been telling me in 2014 that I should quit the job. I started working at Hocus in 2010. I worked at Hocus for 12 years. And in 2014, um, I was doing film and people was like, only because they started seeing that I was doing things for GQ or DCMia pictures with Spike Lee, that they was like, yo, this is it.
You got to do it. Even John L. was in 2015. He was like, yo, how much you need to quit your job? So I'm like, you tell it. And for me, I didn't actually like mature in the gift, if you want to say that, right, to be able to be disciplined because in 2015, I still was like drinking. It was, um, it wasn't until 2019, June 15, 2019 that I stopped drinking. So when me and within those months of me stopped drinking and had my full focus on just the craft, it done something special, you know, for me to be able to focus on what I really had in front of me. So in 2020, when I first did, uh, my first production, uh, which was HBO Max. And then it went from me doing stuff for stars.
And then, uh, I started to understand what rap gifts are and rap gifts are. For those of me not know this listening, when your favorite movie, think of, I want the audience to think of their favorite movie. I'm going to give you our second for me to get this, you know, thinking of your favorite movie right now in this moment. What would that be? And when I, and I'm actually Rob, what would switch one of your favorite movies that you can actually, uh, kill Bill kill them. So let's say there's this guys that people would hire him Rob to do rap gifts for Uma Thurman and, and, and, and Quentin Tarantino, because it just so happened that they love the way that you do your artwork and they know that it's personable. They know that's close to the heart.
They know that it's not going to be, um, art is going to be something that is, is going to touch the heart. So they got to hire you to do, let's say 10 to 12 pieces and it's going to be displayed at a red carpet events. And, um, that's what I do.
I do rap kits. So, um, and I started understanding the language and started writing proposals. I started learning how I can, um, you know, really do this full time. And then that's what I made the, the, the, the, the, the, um, because I was always taking my work to work when I did, it's an image of me online. If you scroll and you look all the way through those thousands of photos, this image of me in cage wash, cage wash, um, you know, we would clean mice cages and I would try to hurry up and finish my job so that where I can get to the job that I need to do before I go home. Because, you know, as you work a full time gig, when you get home, it's a certain time in a certain cat that at a certain hour, I don't care how much you're trying to go and I don't care how passionate you is.
Your body is going to keep the score of how long you've been standing up, how long you've been sitting down. And sometimes you just want to wind up. So I said, you know what, just in case, let me hurry up and do this, bring the work to work. And then it got to the point where it started getting overwhelming for me. Like people were like, yo, you might need the, I think it's time. I'm like, I don't think it's time, but I'm so close to it. And then I talked to a few friends and I had the confidence of really stepping into this craft full time.
I felt like, you know, it was a spirit, a spiritual mode. And then doing that, you know, I never, I didn't have a plan, but I know that I needed to do it for the best benefit of myself because working 12 hours shifts. And when the job was actually trying to, I started at this certain location and the job. And then when COVID had happened, the machine had broke. So then they tried to start me right where I started in 2010 and the same spot. And that had, that had, being though I was here, I earned my spot here, but it didn't matter because the machine was broke. So while I'm here, I can still do the things I can do with my business.
And I can't do anything because the machine is broken. You, and then it was in the environment where we're in, the betting would go up to your nose and sometimes you would get nosebleeds. Being though that was like in 2022, nobody wanted to experience those experiences when they get off work. So it was right. And it was stressful.
It was frustrating. And it got to the point where I said, yeah, if I'm going to put my all into this, if I can, you know, command anywhere between 1200 each first year for the collaboration I did with Dominique Thorne or two grand, they wanted me to do a budget worth 90 grand, but I'm only one person and they needed it within a week or two. And that's when I started to figure out other ways I can do workshops because I wanted to hire old and young recruit old and young. Because when I do workshops, I get a chance to be in community. Like we talked off camera with like-minded individuals who want to create.
And if I can connect with people who want to create what Apple TV, they contacted me to do. Um, it was like a 30 pairs of and one sneakers. And I, they had me airbrushed the sneakers. And this was the same time that the brightest strike had happened.
And then I remember my friend, Snoop Pierce, and she was like, yo, I'm out of work, bro. So look, if you want to throw me a shoe, I'll airbrush it. I'll do whatever I say with feet.
I call it feet. And we've been fishing everybody for a while. That's my fun of our friends. I said, Hey, look, it's not about you just spraying spray painting a shoe.
You, we have to do this, right? Because these are going to be shoes. The shoes that they had me do was going to be in a scene where Kevin Durant had gave all his teammates and coaches a pair of shoes.
So it had to been done right. And she's like, I don't care. They paying you.
They charge you, you charge them a thousand a piece. And let's get it. I was like, all right, let me think about it because I might need some help. So I sat on that. I did about five shoes. I said, I'm a knocker, the rest of them out during the weekend. Now, keep in mind, I was working my job at the time. So I had every moment to get on it, but I didn't get on it.
And I encourage anyone who's listening to this. When you step out of your full time, still make your craft, your full time, still make that schedule, because what happened is you feel like you got all the time in the world and then it starts to fizzle out when you get out of that routine. The beauty about working your full time gig is that it's structure. When you step out of that, you have to be the structure.
And if you if you get two, three days off and just relaxing, it can throw you completely off, right? So then that's what happened. I initially was like, I got time to make the shoes. And then that come that Monday when I was, um, I got contacted by the wardrobe department at Apple TV Spagger and it was like, how many shoes did you done?
I said, well, I only did five. But look, man, this weekend coming up, I'm not, no, no, no, that's fine. That's fine. We'll take the five that you did. And, you know, we already gave you five grand, but, um, the rest of the 25, you got to get, we're going to send somebody to pick the shoes back up.
Cause we did with David wrote the script. And I'm like, well, I needed that 30 grand. I needed that money, but it showed me right in the near the timings of that.
So of course I know this. But if I guarantee you, if I was working the full time, being though that I know I would have maxed out on that, but the, the downside of that is what was it doing to me mentally and emotionally? What was it doing to my body?
Me losing that sleep? Because it was another time before I was, uh, before I quit my, uh, whether I'm not quit before I resigned from Hopkins, I was contacted by Showtime. And this is before I did any first production crew that contacted me was with Showtime Showtime contact you for this series called shark. And this actor, he wanted to get, uh, these joiner ones, um, uh, simple, simple thing. And, uh, a good friend of mine that used to work a man.
So I used to have the effort to be more. His name is her. He works at stadium goods in New York.
He's the manager there. He had contacted me saying that this actor wanted me to do shoes and his assistant at contacting me and his assistant at contacting me. She had no idea what I'd do. She just was like, we want you to do what, that's my version was still in it.
We want you to do this exact same shoe. Uh, it was like, um, it looked like it was like tags. It was like, not tags, not the zip tie tags. It was two simple things. But for me, I would have took the money. I would have took the money if I didn't have any integrity. But for me, I was like, Hey, yeah, have you seen the M.R.
pieces? And I gave the assistant this whole spill of what I've done as I've talked to her on speakerphone, I sent her the images that I've done that Alan Robinson and Dave Chappelle, that she finally see my work. She said, Oh, wow. This is beautiful.
How soon can we get this done? I said, this is what I was trying to tell you that, you know what? If you can, I'm going to put the act, I'm not going to mention his name. I'm going to put the act online. And she said, can you just explain everything? I'm like, I don't feel like explaining the whole thing. It's not when he got on the phone call. I talked to him, I shared with him. I tried to see exactly what I said to her and he was just like, yo, bro, we're going to die for the next one because we want this. But at that time at working my four-time gig, I said to myself before I even, this is two years prior to the pandemic, I said to myself, what is this money going to cost me if I work in at that time, seven to 10 hours shifts?
And they want me to do something in a small timeframe. It was ridiculous. And it was one of the pay. It was one of the pay. They was willing to ship me the shoes and it was willing to pay me.
I think it was between 15, it was a first gig, 1500 to two grand each. I thought a lot of, and I needed it. But my integrity was like, I am not going to do artwork that you can get it.
Why don't you get it for Virgil? Yeah. Don't you give a virgin? I'm not really creating what that, that I create with my heart. I am my mission statement is to dive in. Now part of what I do is not just surface. When you look at my pieces, if anybody sees the pieces, everything is intentional from the end souls.
And now I'm doing it on canvas. You give what I'm saying? So I feel that to say that, you know, the leap was I needed more time to create the art, not just because I was always, always burning in I.O. But it was coming at a cost and I always give people a, I kind of give people an, you know, an example of the Thanos and Tony Starks, how you can kind of like win the war, you know what I'm saying? No, you're on, but it's going to come at a cost at your own expense of something is going to either you're going to lose their relationship because you're going all in because everybody needs attention. You give me his attention, but it needs balance and without balance, something gotta something's going to break.
It's either going to be you or the gift. So if anybody knows, if he watches Avengers, I know, you know, that that's the analogy that I get with Tony Starks and Thanos, you know, um, yeah, Tony Starks was able to snap his fingers and things were able to, but it came in a cost of his own life. So the community is the Avengers community is what you need in order for everybody to tackle that big problem. And, um, you know, that's, I really feel like that's important community.
Rob Lee: You touched on a piece there. I thought was really clever when you mentioned, so the Thanos, you mentioned Tony Starks and you did the, you snapped with it, which I thought was really funny. But the other thing, the balance thing, right? Where Thanos talks about that his whole purpose is he felt that this was the balance that needed to be restored. And, you know, it is sort of balance. And as a, and I'm going to move into this next question, but, you know, when I was, um, and, but hold on.
So initially in hearing sort of those, the different parts of the trajectory that led to sort of this decision to say, I'm going to have to just make the leap. You know, it's done with intention. It's done with time. It's done with consideration and also it's done with integrity. So that's, that's, that's applaudable. And I think of the, the line, um, from the highest to the lowest where Jeffrey Wright's character is just like all money, all money and good money.
And, you know, it's a thing. Some of the offers that I've gotten just is like, Oh, so, so sell out in this way. I think everyone sells out to some degree, but how are you going to sell out? To which degree of that integrity are you going to sell? Because we see it now more and more that there are people who once they get to a spot and they've revealed themselves over the last nine months of what their values are and what kind of owns them. Let's just say, Oh, you've really sold out, not in a, you know, for the bag, but for from a culture perspective. And we just see things of like, Oh, so you were this, you know, you were this hardcore rapper, you know, so hardcore that you may have, you know, beat a murder charge.
I'm not being very specific about anyone at all right now, but then now you're DJing at the inauguration and things of that nature. So it's like, and they're trying to explain it away because what happens is integrity is very important. So to my point, and to which degree are you going to sell out that integrity?
You know, there are some people who are just fully all of the integrity. And it's like, you probably are going to have some financial instabilities because we are playing in a capitalist system or a version of a capitalist system. So maybe that's an acceptable version of selling out. I need, I need a roof over my head to take a bargain. Things cost, you know, these blueberries ain't paying for themselves. But then when it's just like I'm doing every partnership, every connection, every collab and not being discerning in it, then you're moving closer and closer to that sell out thing.
And then it's starting to take away from, as you said, the gift. And in that vein, I must ask, because I'm very curious about this creative work is often deeper than just the fun parts, you know, sharing, you know, sharing one of your pieces with a Chappelle, with a Dr. Dre and having that photo op or really saying, let me explore this. How can I make this? I'm going to do some interest on this canvas. There are productive parts and there are even parts that, you know, get made public that really show. But I'm curious about the little gnarly parts, the ones that are in the background that people don't get to see because artists just made. It's just there one day. It's not there. And then it's suddenly there, but no one cares about how it's made. So talk a little bit about that.
Akio Evans: And well, I will chime in and hopefully I will sound too wild when I open up about this, but recently the breakfast club, I've done something. And this is in a vein that, as you said, some people don't talk about certain parts and it's not, no, no, well, I don't want to scare folks. There's not no crazy stuff. Right. Right.
Rob Lee: But I sacrifice a goat. My God of creativity comes.
Akio Evans: Yeah, I'm glad we had that laughing break right there, man. But, um, you made the spit fall out on the wrong side of the bike area. But, uh, uh, but no, man, I was in this in a, in a, in a situation where I basically contact with Donnell and this has been on my mind since I've known Donnell and his staff who create these names of DJ Envy and Charlotte Main. They make fun of the breakfast club. Even when, um, Angel, this, this, this meme war is what I call it has been going back and forth since Angela.
He was there. And, um, you know, I, um, wanted to always figure out what ways I can use the memes and putting on to a shoe. And that's what I wanted to finally telling Donnell this year. I was like, yo, D, I was like, I don't know why, man, but, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, if you, if it's a one never and it's wild, yo, it's so wild. Now I'm thinking about a while.
This is wild. I said, if it were never you go to the breakfast club, bro, you should, um, you know, act like you're giving these in every and Charlotte Main a piece of our Frank and you should give them the memes that you've done over the years. And I, what I'll do is I'll find all the names that you've done on your social media and theirs and I'll put it all into a shoe. He said, yo, that's dope.
Let's get it. And I started to do it. And I said, wow. In the midst of me tag taking on the commission.
I was like, I'll see you in years, but I said, Oh no, son, we, we, we, we're going to be there within the next week or so. I said, what? I didn't even know.
I didn't know. So in the process prior to that, and this is, this is where it gets a little deep. I was envisioning that I was going to be receiving an opportunity. I don't know what it was, but I had prior to me actually taking on the gig. I got my house in order, got my home studio in order, started cleaning up. And as I was cleaning up, um, you know, then your minds start to be, you start, you start to think clear when your environment is, is, is clean.
And cause I believe that God can't bless no mess. So I'm, as in this opportunity to receive, um, when I was knee deep, Rob, into creating the peace, the peace was maybe, I would even say, I thought I did either Charlemagne's or envy's first, one of the shoes was done. I only had one more shoe to do. And wow, bro, I'm looking at the shoe, bro. And I got a blank shoe here.
I'm looking at a shoe, bro. And on this side, and nothing was really done. It's like I got to the finish line and I was about to quit, bro. And I was looking at the shoe like, yo, this doesn't even matter. I looked at it and it's like, and then I had somebody, you know, um, that was that, that really, and God bless her soul, man. I mean, you know, she's still with us, but God bless her, man.
She's, she's been great. Uh, luckily they were a witness to what I was going through because it was like, um, what do you call it? Self-sabotage in a way? Or it was like, I don't know if it was burnout, but I know that I no longer, I felt disgusted when I looked at the shoe, the same shoe that she was like, what did you just say?
You just said it. The world scene, because I remember you, you sent your hand just like that. The world scene, what they seen on the breakfast club, but they didn't see that the creative person that was behind it was going through that go through. And I don't know where it came from. I don't even never have episodes like that, but I do remember that I was asked and I was told at some point, Hey, yo, you know, I'm kind of worried about you. Like, you know, you, you're not, I think you need to contact somebody to probably like hang it up.
Like you need to get something with some benefits or something. And that was told to me most ago, but it found me, right? Where, right in that mold of the, of the one of the most, um, you know, cause that, that piece got a lot of national attention. And it was in that, and that moment that I had to be reminded, Hey, nah, you promised us to die. No, if you don't do this, it might not, you know, you might, you made this, you've gotten, you've, you've accepted it. You've gotten your incentive and now you're about to walk away from this. And I missed the motivator.
I missed the inspirator all day. So for this to happen for me, I don't know what that was, but then the person was like, what do you, what do you say to the kids that, um, that, that when you go to them and speak to them, including Ohio that are in, you know, some of them have done, um, crazy crimes. One of them name was Reaper.
He took 10 people out. You know what I mean? These are people that I go into the rooms and I have to be the inspiration. I have to inspire and go in there and that ego be all the way as high as she killed O'Neill. And then by the time I leave out there, it's like Moxie Bowles.
And then, um, I say that humbly because, you know, they have posted me inside the hallway, they've asked about me. And, um, in that moment where I was in that dark space, bro, I didn't even know how to come out of it. You know what I'm saying?
But like I said, this happens. And I think that God was saying, like, yo, look, no matter where you are, as you continue to calm this ladder, don't ever forget this moment because we, we're ever, you know, I mean, the breakfast club is only for me. I didn't even care what it was. Oh, so what? I didn't even care about that in that moment. I didn't care. I'm like, yo, whatever. You know what I'm saying? But I've seen and I have my art displayed and it's like, you know what I mean? I'm used to it now.
I'm grateful for the opportunity. But I believe in the heart work. I believe in the heart, the heart work of what is this going to resonate?
Is this going to be bring impact? You know what I'm saying? And I was chipped. You know, I figured out that I was chipping, but at the same token, I felt like something else is, is, is happening that I, I'm going to wind up finding out what it is, but I will never forget in a moment. Cause had it not happened, most people, and I'm never a person would have the big, the big head. You know what I'm saying?
We'll be in cocky, but I'm, I'm grateful that it happened so that way I'm not actually walking with that. Oh yeah, I've done this. I've done that. And I don't hesitate to tell people the moment because I want them to know that like, yo, when you're in your creative stance, don't even have to be the breakfast club.
It can be for Joe blow or whoever. Sometimes we are human. You give it a sense. So no matter the opportunity to be a good small, you know what I mean?
Finish strong, but sometimes you need the community. I don't even think if that person was in my course proximity, I would have, while I would have been like, you know what I'm saying? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And that's crazy. Let me say that.
Rob Lee: Yeah. It's, um, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So I think that's a real thing. Like, you know, we, we, at times struggle with the inner critic. We struggle with the outer critic.
We start to struggle with like, should I even be doing this? Like, what does it even matter? And there is a knowledge that happens. There's all types of different things that are at play because it's attached to emotions, it's attached to feelings.
Like when I do this, I had to realign it when I do this. I'm like, okay, cool. You know, community in this season is really about that. And in some ways, checking up on folks or in other ways, as I've, I said before, like, I maybe wasn't as good at interviewing at the time. So let me go back and right or wrong or continue a conversation or whatever it might be.
And it is a process. Like, you know, I try not to be overly weighty about it. Like I'm not a chef. I'm not a fine artist.
I'm not this. I'm not that, but there is a skill at what I do. There is a intention in what I do. There's an artistry and a journalistic intent and all of that stuff. But what I do, and I think it's not appreciated and respected as much as it could be, not should, but could be. And because we value, frankly, some bullshit a lot of times.
And, you know, the people that are actually doing the stuff and making the stuff happen, you know, they deal with real things. My inclination is I'll just detach for a while. I'll, you know, dip out. And I'm sort of in that phase, frankly, right now of, you know, once I sort of wrap this season, you know, reassessing, what do I want to do?
What am I curious about? Maybe it's not doing this for a bit. Maybe it is doing this and doubling down. Maybe it's finding something, but it is a component where you're not doing it for any external validation. You're doing it to satisfy something internally. And that perhaps drives the sort of opportunities you look for, for me, for the people that I want to talk to, things of that nature. But if that's not satisfied, if there's a misalignment there, it's needed to reassess. And in this go, go, go grind culture world, we don't have that opportunity to reassess. And that's one of the reasons why I've been very hesitant to make that move. I am like, I need to sit in sort of both of these territories right now. And I've been playing with this idea that we have to do hard things.
Yes. Thus, it makes us more equipped and have the capacity to do some, because time is going to get tough to give us the capacity to do these things. So chronely enough, when I'm like, man, I got really busy schedule. It was like, yo, you used to do 18 interviews in a week with your day job.
You did 300 plus episodes in one year, not to let you were touching on, you know, not like I've talked to this person, I talked to that person. I have that. I know those credentials and all that stuff. And mostly it's 90% of it is self made. But there's a cost that comes with it. So trying to understand that and giving yourself that grace and checking in with yourself. All of the things that people say, but really do it with meaning, do it for real.
Because the community thing is important, but I think at times it's misused because there's only so much energy that's there. You know, I was in Columbus, you know, recently and, you know, one of my buddies, I tell him, I was like, look, man, if I come in from Baltimore, come out of town, I'll make it a point. Let's grab dinner. Let's grab a drink, whatever. And he was saying, he was like, yeah, man, we have this community here, but people only come to check on me. And he was just like, you're coming in from out of town. And I do that, you know, with like people, I'm like, Hey, I feel like I made a connection. I've connected with this person. We're friends on the road to friendship. And I joke that I have one and a half friends and if you get a smaller every day, because people don't have those same values, but at the same time, speaking about the benefits of community, it's like the community is beneficial when it benefits you and your end goal.
That's what it is. I've had a lot of times and I, I strive for it. And by virtue of doing this, my famous off of this, no, am I making a bunch of money off of this? No, but am I able to capture sort of a satisfied curiosity and capture like conversations that really tap into what's happening around us? Yes.
Akio Evans: And the thing of it is that it's amazing because we think about the name of, you know, your, his truth in this art. You know, so, you know, I'm sharing the truth with you, whereas some people put on, right? They've been like, Yeah, you know, but it's, you know, even after the aftermath, I didn't look at the interview at all.
Like, I think it was like afternoon, everybody was sending me text messages like, yo, yo, yo, yo, you bitch. But I wanted to self-assess it and really, like, really look at it from my, you know, from a different lens. And what was supposed to be a joke or a prank, a common air prank once that was on the letter of authentication that I put on there as a certificate. So that way if it's exhibited one day, they'll have that. They appreciate it.
They love it. And that's not what Don, I want to backfire it, but that goes to show you that this work is valued. That's the same nod to after having conversations with the people who you connect with, like how he said, like, yo, I got people that don't do that. Like, oh, yo, nah, that's like the unexpected nod. Like, yes, this is what it's about. Like, yes, it goes back to when you put the work in, even right now, you like, yo, Kio, we're going to cook.
Like, I'm going to fire all the whistle names. But then it's like the nod, like, oh, wow, yo, like, this is what this platform is for. It's for to express the truth of the artist and the art and the creation behind the art and all the things that is in that same recipe, that same pot that mixes all that. And if it's not that, like you said, things can be, you know, not in alignment.
Then it's like, yo, you can detect it immediately. You know what I'm saying? But, um, because you never know who's listening. You never know who may need to hear this from both.
And even you and I, I need to listen to, I need to hear it because. Yes, somebody seen me the last week. I was at the creamery and that's the same night I sprung my ankle. It's better now, but, um, that's the first time I was outside where people was actually like, actually, I mean, telling me like, yo, I see.
And it's the same way in person. I told him to flat out what it was, but you only get conversations like that. How you and I talked, Rob, you know, he was like, we talked, like, we talked like how we were regularly talked, whether we was on the streets or whatever. And I feel like that's what this brings out of people, everybody that you've been able to interview. What's the real, how does it feel to have a shout out to Brian?
Uh, record store companies since 1993. How does it, what is that? What is that like? You give them a sad it's in these conversations. I need it, bro. It's still needed.
Rob Lee: What, what are the things I go back to? I think the last time that I saw you was sort of that opening party for the station or it's like public and I was just like, I was in this wave because they invited me, I was invited there and I was going with them like, yeah, I'm probably going to show up because I opt out of things all the time now because I always feel like I can't do that. You touched on, I can't do the surface thing. I can't do the fake thing. If I like you, I rocks with you. If I'm indifferent towards you or if you've been weird to me, there's a lot of weird behavior that happens and I'll go because I was, you know, the rule I have, if I was asked, if I was personally invited, not an email, not one of these sort of, here's the DM and it's been caught and cut and paste. If it's like, you have my number, that's a, that's a, that's a level of authentication. Yeah. If you have my number, you hit me and you're like, yo, can you come to this?
You got it. And I probably was sitting there looking wild off-putting and then my mood changed when I saw y'all, I was like, yo, my man is over there. They pop over. And, and, and that's sort of what it is because, you know, I do this, you know, we did the first interview in person. So that was one vibe, but a lot of times the interviews are done this way. And, you know, it's more so for timing and when the opportunity presents itself to do it in person, I'd rather have that because that's the, that's the connection.
That's actually being around in, in community, um, and, and with the folks. So I got, I got a couple more questions here. Real questions, actually two, one is particularly long in the setup, but I think it works and, um, the last thing is interesting. So when I think about the race, right? You know, two interviews come to mind that I've done one with, with, um, author Marathon or Martinez Evans, um, from the Run Flows AF club and the others from one of our boys, uh, D walkins, Martinez shares the experience of being a marathon athlete who weighs over 300 pounds. He has an account called 300 pounds and running. And what he's learned during that time, run, flow AF, run at your own pace, running your own race. D walkins literally says that in the first episode of this season, you got to run your own race and both notions bowled down to comparison. You know, I'm not going to be as fast as you or my stride is going to be shorter than yours or whatever the thing might be. How do you address comparison and what keeps you on track and locked in?
Akio Evans: That's a great question. Um, you know, most people say, as we know, the comparison is that people join, you know, for me, I try to find things that inspire me.
So if I see other artists doing what they're doing, they might reach a certain amount of success before I have or just then a third. I know that it was a book that I read back in the day in 2010. It was for T half after, and it was the millionaire mind. And I used to get cracked on reading this book too, because at that time of 2010, nobody was looking at it.
Self-help whether it is today as well as it was then. And I remember one of the things that I said that was somebody actually wins. This, this congratulate them immediately. Don't necessarily come at it with her because what's for you will be for you. What's for me will be for me. If it's not meant for me to, I don't want what you have. I don't want the things that you've had acquired to get what you need to get.
And even if somebody might say, yo, but I would take that breakfast club joint in the heartbeat, brother, if you had that opportunity, you would have to be in my shoes and go through the same thing that I went through in order to feel that way. So do you really want that? Cause some people will probably freak out if that would have had happened. Cause I was freaking out, you know, so I say all this to say that what is for you is for you and can't know devil and hell take it away from you. And if you want the hell that comes with the success of another person, be prepared to burn because every burn is different. You know, the stove burn is different. The oven burn is different.
The actual fire burn is different. And the body, you know, it's, it's going to leave a mark. You know what I mean? You're going to get people cooked like Tony Stark.
You're going to get cooked like yo, or you're going to be able to walk away a little bit with some bruises. But, um, I think that, uh, I really, to, to also add a little bit more to it. You know, I really don't actually, uh, I try to like not pay so much of attention to what's happening in the world. I try to in today's world is hard too, because it's the informational technology, but I try to like always say, yo, you're in your own lane. Okay.
So you're looking at a person that is doing it this way, but yo bro, you're in your own lane, continue to finish that because nobody is doing what you're doing. You know, man, and we need the person that's not, we need you. We need Rob this to, however you're doing it, we need you. We don't need another duplication of Jimmy Fallon or Saladio.
I mean, we need another duplication of, um, um, no, all the names I can't think of that's the first thing I thought of, uh, uh, Joe Rogan or, you know, um, uh, uh, Jay Shetty, we only, we need, we need the you, you know what I'm saying? For me, we don't need another, um, the shoe surgeon and it's crazy because I wound up meeting you know, and I wasn't intended. That's another conversation for another time of alignment, but even he, when I met him, he was just like, it was the guy that was with us. And when I first met him, he was like, he's a yo, no, I kill. And when he was saying that I had to, I had to like be like, you know, in the middle of like, yeah, but he was like, yo, no, cause the guy was trying to say, yeah, man, you're going to do great things. He was kind of talking to me like, and I was believing it too. He was like, you're talking to me like, yeah, man, you know, you keep doing what you're doing and Dominic had interrupted me. He's like, no, you're, you know who he is? I'm like, what am I?
I got goosebumps in your sentence, bro. He's the one who he is now. I'm like, this is the guy who I admire that he does. Like he went from saying call himself the shoe surgeon, the surgeon, you know, that's what also inspired me to put the shoe muralists because I listened to this thing called, uh, it was a skit that Eric Thomas said, he said, yo, I don't care if you're a nurse, I don't care if you, uh, build houses, you better name it. You better name who are you? So I said, okay, what can I name myself to be that is not what the world sees when they think of the shoe and the art? Cause when you think of shoe and art, you think of customs, but the customs don't make people cry. Customs don't, uh, have, you know, it's, it's, it's some of customs are trendy.
Some customers go on the theme of a colorway, but when you tap into the heart, you know what I mean? That thing becomes something that is breathing. It becomes the thing that you don't want to let go when you create a piece.
You don't want to let the piece go and a collector sees it every day. And it brings healing to a person who if one lady, she had lost a son, he got robbed and killed in his Jordan and threes. She, every time she think about it, think about a pair of Jordan threes. She gets discouraged.
She gets angry. But then when you actually take that same Jordan three, you memorialize her son. And you put images of her son on the Jordan threes. She don't look at the Jordan threes anymore as hatred in her heart. You know what I mean?
Because her son was taken. You are able to bring healing through the pain. And so I say that to say that I can't do, if I was a suck on what the shoot, what the shoe surgeon does, which is merging fabrics into a piece, I can't say that the images that I utilize and I put on shoes with a, it creates that same impact. The reason I use images of it is because I was evicted and my mother was like, you can only carry things that you can have in your hand. So all the toys, all the things that I've had, even family photos only got like a half of a kid baby pictures only because we couldn't take it all with us. So for me, every time I see images, it means something different to me than anybody else because I don't have those images around me to reference. I only have, I only have one picture of me and my mother together.
You know, they get that, you know, me. So I look at like, even if it's not my photos, I look at images differently and I make sure the preservation of those images live outside of the family book. And I want it to be on what we see every day, which is on World Bar and clothing for us to become the art, for us to become the memory. You know what I mean? Are we waiting to go into a book, this access to a memory? A while we're waiting on to see our phone to access these memories. Because sometimes this will be gone. Sometimes that family book will be gone. So we have to find other ways to preserve those memories. And why not putting on, why not become that by putting on your body?
Rob Lee: And, you know, it's, it's the bespoke nature to it. It's something that, you know, I'll, you know, I'll be so bold to say that she was a vehicle. It's a, it's a mode. It's a canvas or the canvas is a canvas to, to. Elicit those memories and those feelings and the visual components of it. That's not the art. The, the art that goes into it is what is on it. What is, what is it about the story that's connected to it?
And that's a very personal story. And, you know, it's sort of this thing of what you do is different than the surgeon, the shoe surgeon will have you because it's like your intent maybe this needs to be in galleries. This needs to be done in this way.
This needs to be archived in this way. It's not doing customs and may have some roots and connectivity to that, but it's making sort of where's my patrons is that art, you know, and the same way that I approached this, like, you know, since we've talked before, you know, I've done the education thing the last two years that teaching and, you know, I'll have kids to say like, yeah, you know, it's just two guys shooting a shit talking, you know, in podcasts. I was like, no, it's a little bit deeper than that. And then I kind of explained what the difference is. It's like, you can do that in that way. And that's fine. And the kind of the things you were touching on, like, if you want this, you got to take that burn that comes with it.
Sometimes it's an usher burn, but that's a different story for different times because of the song. Or you can take, you know, like the high school students that I worked with, they had trouble connecting with them because I was, this is my first attempt and it was like some detachment there. And they're saying you're like, I don't care about this old guy talk about this. But at a point I got to, here's the hands-on thing. Let me show you how to do it. I'm going to tell you how to do it initially.
Let me show you how to do it. And we got to the back end of the class. It was four year. And I started giving them prompts. I was like, you're doing a sponsored podcast and she got curious how to make money. Let's say Jesus has reached out to you and they're like, look, we need you to do a podcast discussing our product.
Make a good one. And they were like, this is what we're doing. I was like, this is how these deals happen. I was like, don't get confused. I was like, everything is sponsored. Everyone has their fingerprints and everything and podcasts aren't cheap. So, you know, Nabisco, whoever came to you and said, Hey, can you do a podcast about these new flavors? And I was trolling because one of the students was coming in eating some cheese that's now, I was like, this is the only reason I did it. It could have been Eminem's, but sort of getting them and giving them sort of a puzzle and a challenge that's there. I was like, this is why what I do and what I put myself towards is a bit different and then just put it on a mic and just talking to people without an end point.
Akio Evans: Exactly. And it's a gift. They've even been able to interject in the right way, you know, maybe because I've been on a lot of different other platforms to name a few. And, you know, the conversations is either one sided a little bit, which is fine because sometimes, you know, but it's the beauty about you and I is that what happens on here is a flow. And so some people, when they connect, when there's a conversation like this, some people don't be in flow and that's okay. You know what I mean? But you have an ability, you have a gift to be in flow with the people who you talk to, to as though it just doesn't seem like, now, there's some people that be on here and I used to be like that in my early interviews, just be talking. Like, it's just like, but yo, you, I don't know what it is about you. I listen to other interviews as well. And it's a flow. And that's a gift. Thank you. That I by don't possess. Yeah.
Rob Lee: It's this thing and I'm going to go to this last question in a moment, but it's the thing where I had a, I had an artist on, um, Xenia Gray, um, she's based in DC, painter, I'm really talented and, um, we didn't interview in person, um, but in DC. But we talked a few times before actually doing the interview. There was some, uh, some trepidation, just like, you know, what are we talking about? How are we talking about all of this stuff?
And it makes sense. You know, like not everyone is just going to be like, Hey, I love to just come on and talk. And, you know, she's not from this country.
So that's another consideration, especially now. So, you know, you just want to make sure like, Hey, am I, is this a gag? Is this a bit? So, you know, we, we talked, we had a cool conversation after a bit about her art. But I was very curious about the person who was making the art.
And in that conversation, we wrapped it and she, she said to me, she was like, thank you for actually talking to me like a person, not just a Q and a like robot, you know, just so you use this color in your painting. Why? Yeah.
Depth there. That's just, you know, and there's different ways to go about it and there's different, but that's not what the intent is it here. No, thanks. I'm going to do this last question and I got a couple of rapid fire ones for you. So Orson Wells, you know, since you're a film guy, I thought I'd throw that out there is quoted, um, with saying the absence of limitation is the enemy of art. That's a quote that's been attributed to him.
What is your relationship with limitations or parameters within your work? Is it a friend? Is it a front? Is it a foe? What is it? What is that for you? It depends on, um, where I'm at.
Akio Evans: Uh, sometimes the limitations of me being able to tap in, um, it can become, whereas if I dive too deep, you know what I mean? It can become an overload of how much things I can do to create this one piece.
Um, the limitations that set on like the timeframe and the time limit of when I can be able to produce, I'm like, how am I going to do this in this certain timeframe? But then something comes over like the fire that, you know, got burnt a few times. It just kind of allows you to really just kick in the five to 20 years with, though, you're like, yo, what's happening? You know how you watch Star Wars and they go to that one speed and they go to the cheap speed reminds you that Windows XP, uh, screen saver. There was all the stars like coming by that's by the natural speed.
But if that other speed where you just see the lines of those stars and that's the zone, that's, uh, what was that movie for Pixar called, um, it was a blues, um, movie with Jamie Foxx. Was it about a soul? So yes. And whatever they say, they say the zone was a design. What was it that they were saying that, uh, you're in the, uh, and a flow. That sounds, you know, you know, I don't get that with this, but the limitations can meet, can be good, but it can also be, um, I think my limitations is always when I collaborate with people who want things a certain way and they want you to be able to like do it their way. And then when they see, and then sometimes you're like, all right, you know what? I'm a dutch, but then you'll be, then you do something else and then like, what?
And then you've got to allow that to be something that they learn from limiting you or sometimes just don't do it alone because you're like, okay, do I want to do this? Okay. If I do this, I'm not going to share this. There's a lot of work that I've done that hasn't been shared and that it's been with the big names as well. Um, and that's all because of the entrepreneurship of, you know, you having to, you know, take on certain things, but, um, you know, it's never, never fell on the wayside because it's always built up the muscles that I need to do next day.
Rob Lee: So yeah, you know, I've had numerous conversations with folks in here and that's the thing that comes up often with collaboration, multiple edits and so on. I, I don't frame what I do and how I approach a lot of different things with, I'm the easy person. Like when I go to a coffee shop, I'm not asking for the salted caramel latte with three pumps of sugar-free nonsense.
I'm like, yo, can I get a quartado, please? And I find that something with the simplicity there is often missed, but I'm not, cause I already know what I want. I know that this works. I've vetted this. I apply that to how I go about my, my podcast. So when I'm editing something, I make the editing job a bit easier for my editor. You know, it's a collaboration thing.
We don't have to go back and forth. Well, I need you to trim that piece. Oh, you could love that in. It's just like, I'm not editing it, but I'm guiding that editing. So in, in, in, I'm, we have this philosophy that I've applied in some of my classes of pre-editing. I was like, structure your show in a way that it makes the edit a cleaner job. You know, you can cut out the ums and all of that stuff. And that kind of gets away from it, being what it's intended to be, being a conversation, but if it's something with segments, you can break it down in that way, but really think about it almost like you're scripting it out of how you want to do this versus, let me just record. There's a philosophy there too.
Yeah. Just record and trim, you know, as I need, but it's sort of what you're doing. And I, for what I'm doing and what I aim to do, conversation is the most important thing and cleaning out sort of the finer pieces, doing my intro and outro, how I do them, all of that stuff. That's just part of what's needed because I know I'm collaborating with another person, you know, with my editor and even with the, the guest. So me running through and doing a grandiose intro review, we're not doing this in front of people. You know, the point is having the conversation with you. That's the most integral part of this. Um, and, and I think that's sort of what it is. And I tell folks to try to make folks as comfortable as possible. So when we get rocket and rolling, so they're good. Then the conversation is good. No one's doing it. Absolutely. The key collaboration.
Akio Evans: Man, man, not sure. Indeed. Sure. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee: So let me hit you with these four. I got four rapid fire questions for you. And as I tell people all the time, you don't want to overthink these. These are sort of like whatever the quick burst, you know, sort of, sort of answers. All right. So we talked to earlier a little bit about wins.
Right. How do you celebrate wins? What's your go to when you get like to something like, I'm really proud of myself here. Do you, how do you celebrate? You hitting the Chalmery, you get like ice cream cone. What are you doing?
Akio Evans: It depends on what I want to do. But I tend to eat maybe like, I don't know, something that I've always wanted to eat for a while, like a crab cake or something or, you know, something that I had the desire to eat. But it's funny because I just now started saying I need to celebrate myself more and find other ways of what I like to do. You know what I'm saying? Because sometimes I'll just don't really like want to praise the win.
You know what I mean? I know we're supposed to celebrate the wins big and small, but sometimes I don't want to praise whatever I think to be a win because I don't want to be fed off of just that one thing. But I just try to find some things to enjoy myself. Sometimes it might just be me watching a movie because sometimes even by the fall, I have to encourage myself to watch a movie and I'm a movie person. I love watching movies, you know what I mean? But to give myself permission to watch movies nowadays, sometimes it's like, I want to watch it or I want to watch that show. I want to watch this that third, you know what I mean? And I'll, every once in a while, I'll buckle down and be like, I watched this and like, all right, cool.
Rob Lee: That's a good distinction though. Like folks that are in our age group or what have you, I've been talking to more and more of them like that sort of late 30s, early 40s group. It's just like, I don't celebrate wins. And I'm like, but everyone is supposed to be winning even selling the fake wins.
So if someone isn't jet, that's not real or whatever. And I got to get better at it like myself. Like I didn't celebrate episode 100, episode 200.
I'm coming up with 900. I've not celebrated one. And, you know, I celebrate by doing more work. And I think that has to be a sort of shift in that.
It's like Idris Elba said, you got to treat yourself very nice. And it's very true there. Favorite place, this is the next one, favorite place in Baltimore to observe people. Like, you know, I hear like people watching, it's like, you know, this stuff happened over here.
Akio Evans: I will have to say, lately it's been, you know, I've been at, I've been at a fellas point, you know what I'm saying? I've been there, but it depends on the time of day. You know what I mean? But it's this one spot, spot, me spot called, meet your coffee.
Okay. And what I've noticed is that when it's like an Orioles game, people from all over are there, they're not from there. And it's funny, right? Because when you watched them and they see the home for everything, and they think of that, oh, I think it's them all there. I just be like, I just be sitting by coffee, right? I just be like, oh, my matcha, what am I feeling in the moment? I just be looking at all these tourists who are seeing something that they're seeing what we already experienced.
We know what the harbor was, but they're making the imagination in their mind of what Baltimore is and am I, and I feel like that's just something to great to see because, you know, I love to see people who see different parts of the city, like Mount Vernon or the places that they wouldn't find or they wouldn't even think that is here. You know what I'm saying? Like, I like to watch that happen. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is great, right? Yeah, this ain't what you thought it was. And it's okay. You know, oh, you love it. Right. Yeah. I mean, I just love that, man.
Rob Lee: You know what I mean? I, I'm usually over there at Patterson Park. Super early, right? That's when the ghosts are out. I'm usually there still dark because people are running, they're jogging.
You know, hoping the thing that happened to me in February, March rather, happens to them. You know, I was running, part of my morning ritual, I do a little run. And I did not lift my feet up properly and I tripped on one head over tea kettle. I just want flying.
It was just a, remember how tall I am just going, just flying. So I'm hoping that happens of the people that I'm watching at Patterson Park. It's like, yeah, fall comically. Like, like just fall, like, and I'm going to laugh at it and not feel like the universe has righted itself because I felt luckily it was dark and no one saw me, right? Cause it was super dark.
Akio Evans: Yeah. That's even worse, but dark.
Rob Lee: I thought like my wrist still hurts. This was March. And I thought I like broke my leg. That's how bad the fall was. Cause I was flying. My, my AirPods once flying the big ones, the cans, they went flying off. It was a sight. So I'm glad because I can see it now. I'm not saying this, right? But someone's like, yo, we got truth in this art falling and busting his ass.
Akio Evans: Maybe they got a shot of you just floating in the air. The guy Dennis Robin. That's their ball. Yeah.
Rob Lee: Here's the last one. Here's the last one I got for you. Um, cause I've, I've been reading a few things that have been definitely coloring our times. Um, definitely on tyranny has been something I've been reading. What are you currently reading?
Akio Evans: Apparently I've been reading like two different books. Um, it's a book by Kane Connor. Um, I have to find a title, um, and send it to you so that way you can, um, but it's one of these books that he had, you know, but I always go back to Malcolm Gladwell, um, David, David and Goliath and, um, soar with TD jakes. Um, you know, those are good books. So I like to alternate with, um, to kind of like give me inspiration. And it could, that came out, that book, those books came out, well, TJ's book came out years ago, but it talks about the entrepreneurship, about you taking your plane that you have a working, you know, your job and you're trying to soar from having the job to being all the way up in the air. And this guy, he has that. And I don't think they talk about it enough, but he's has done a lot with having like his investments into the film and all these other things.
And it's just like, it gives me a spy. And now, and also the last model is, um, Bobby hundreds. This is not your t-shirt. You know what I'm saying? One of my favorites. Um, lately I haven't been able to get any, um, any books that I know that is like, like, you know, I haven't known, I mean, maybe you can share some book titles with me, but I haven't been saying any new titles that I've been, um, interested in, sad to say, uh, versus 2019, 2018, 2020. 2021, but I've always find that I do go back and I reread some of the books that I have because as this stage in my life, you know, some of the things that I read in 2019, my mentality is different now than compared to that. So I always like to, you know, tap back into the books that I have because I got a whole library of stuff, you know, me and you say that the brain cannot retain certain information past a certain time. Um, so, you know, we're always learning and we can always learn from the books that we read now. If this one of them Harry Potter books, you can forget about it, bro.
I won't be doing that. You know what I'm saying? I, you know, say you, I can be in a man, you know, that's a lot to kind of keep rereading, but I love some help books. I love the books that feel like I'm on a journey with them as they are finding like these messages into creating and creating a, so yeah.
Rob Lee: So I'll have to say those that you for a second, I thought you were going in that direction that 50 cent wet red with a challenge in Floyd Mayweather to an ice book challenge. Actually, if you can read one page out of a Harry Potter book, yo, hey, oh, he did.
Akio Evans: Oh, I thought you were going with, I was like,
Rob Lee: no, yo, look, I'm gonna be that dog. I was right free of my head. I was like, yeah, I wish I would have done that. That would have been good.
That would have been good. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm sticking with the sort of plain analogy that you illustrated in terms of entrepreneurship. I'm going to go with the plain analogy when it comes to wrapping up a podcast. I'm going to land this plane. So any final moments is two things I want to do. I want to thank you for coming back on and spending some time with me and reconnecting in this podcast and to only invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can find you, check out your work, social media, website, all of that good stuff. The floor is yours.
Akio Evans: Well, you guys can follow me on social media platforms. That's the Ikea 11. It's about a K I O E V A and that's everything Ikea 11. But if you wanted to tap in and collect one of the pieces while it's up on the website, I do have drops that I release. I just released the Harriet Tubman 20s drops. The last time I had that on the site was in 2022. And that was the same year that it dropped or swag a season to with main act award that onto the show. But that's up only for a certain amount of time because September is International Underground Railroad Month. And then I'll be rolling back with the Media Man collection, which the last time I released to me in that collection was October 15th, 2020. So I'm re-releasing it now as I got a chance to meet the man himself, Robert Towson, and he already gave me the stamp that it was okay. He didn't look at it like I was making like these bootleg shirts. He says like, nah, yo, you're preserving the history, especially you from Baltimore. Like he was just in our body. You give it a sense. So anyway, I know that we're tapping it, but I'm going to have a tour of a conversation where landing is plain.
But, uh, yes, any, I buy a key 11.com is the name of the site. All right. That's B Y A K I O E B N S. And, um, yeah, man, thank you, Rob, for just bringing me on board the second time. Bro, that means I did something right. That means you guys said like, no shade, no shade of nobody, you know, to me. But, um, yeah, man, I was about to do a damn dash.
Rob Lee: And there you have it folks. I want to again, I think I kill Evan for coming back onto the podcast and running it back with me and a deep conversation. And I'm just really fortunate and appreciative of his time.
And for our Kio, I am Rob Lee saying it is our culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look forward.