Alicia Puig: Navigating the Art World with Authenticity and Connection

00;00;10;08 - 00;00;33;22
Speaker 2
Welcome to the truth in this art. I'm your host, Rob Lee. And today, I have the privilege of being in a conversation with a curator and the co-founder of PXP Contemporary, the director of business operations for Create Magazine in Arts Writer and the regular guest host of the Create Podcast and the coauthor of The Complete Smartest Guy. Please welcome Alisha Puig.

00;00;33;27 - 00;00;34;26
Speaker 2
Welcome to the podcast.

00;00;35;27 - 00;00;40;06
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me. Rob, it's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited to chat with you.

00;00;40;17 - 00;00;53;04
Speaker 2
Yes, 100%. I mean, I feel like the the caliber of guest is just going up. I mean, it's just like, well, who am I, a little old me over here and I'm speaking with you. So shout out to you and thank you for joining this pod.

00;00;53;29 - 00;00;55;16
Speaker 3
Oh, that's so nice to hear.

00;00;56;18 - 00;01;14;27
Speaker 2
So before we get too deep into into this kind of conversation, I want to really open it up and have you like, share your story, like, really like kind of keying in on, like in chapter one. This, this is where it started in chapter 15. I had my first opening. Tell me about the story for you.

00;01;15;16 - 00;01;34;14
Speaker 3
Sure. I guess going back to the very beginning, I grew up kind of everywhere. My family moved a lot. I was born in Michigan, but then we moved to Delaware. We moved to Texas. We moved to Pennsylvania. So it was hopping around. But ultimately that was a good thing. It taught me to be adaptable quite early on in life.

00;01;35;06 - 00;02;08;05
Speaker 3
But I mostly grew up in Kennett Square, Pennsylvania, mushroom capital of the world. Very small, small town, small town America, about an outside of Philadelphia. And in high school, I had an amazing art teacher, Mr. Reid, shout out to him, who really he took me under his wing. I was a very shy, introverted freshman, and I knew that I wanted to take art as my elective freshman year and eighth grade, and I ended up in his class.

00;02;08;05 - 00;02;27;10
Speaker 3
And even though I was shy, very quiet, most of my teachers never really thought twice about me. He saw something in me and I ended up taking his course all four years of high school. So by the end we were quite close and he was able to help me put together a portfolio to apply to universities for fine art.

00;02;28;09 - 00;02;52;22
Speaker 3
At the time I thought I was going to go into graphic design and actually did get accepted for graphic design. I went to Penn State my first year and a half of school for graphic design. Of course, kind of thinking as many people do, that that was the way to have a creative job that still paid bills. However, I quickly learned that that was not my cup of tea.

00;02;52;29 - 00;03;24;20
Speaker 3
I absolutely respected profession 1,000%. I love what they do and I use what they do, but it was just not for me. So I transferred to a smaller state school in the middle of Amish country called Kutztown University. There were quite literally horses and buggies that went by Main Street of school, and even though it was a smaller school, it was great in that it was a lot more arts focused, a lot more education focused, and that's where you could kind of be a big fish in a small city.

00;03;24;20 - 00;03;46;24
Speaker 3
So I ended up working at the student gallery there and got my first taste of what it was like to touch, run a space to work with my peers and help them mount what was often their first solo exhibitions. And I loved it. I mean, I loved that more so than even making my own work in their studio courses.

00;03;47;03 - 00;04;15;29
Speaker 3
So that kind of was the first inkling that I probably wanted to do this professionally after school. And there came a turning point about my junior senior year. I knew I wanted to go to graduate school, so I started looking into fine art programs and also art history programs because at the time I was of course still interested in making my own work, but also starting to get excited about working in galleries and putting new shows together.

00;04;15;29 - 00;04;40;08
Speaker 3
So I went up to New York for a weekend excuse me, and I looked at graduate programs in both of those fields. And it just so happened that the art that I saw at these fine art graduate programs was just nothing at all, like what I was making. And so to me, that was kind of the sign of This is not my path anymore.

00;04;40;08 - 00;05;00;20
Speaker 3
And I took a break from making art work after that and just decided to go towards the path of art history. I ended up in Philly, which is a perfect fit for me, and I got my graduate degree in art history at Temple, and that's kind of where my my whole journey began.

00;05;00;28 - 00;05;27;19
Speaker 2
That's that's great. Thank you for walking us through that. And I think that there is this this this sort of like experience or this sort of like inkling that, you know, you know that you want to be in the arts world. Right. But where do you fit in? You know, when I was interned, I don't know where this really fits in as far as like maybe documenting or what have you.

00;05;27;19 - 00;05;45;14
Speaker 2
I kind of struggle with it, but I know that is something of interest for me as something that makes me kind of light up. And what something that activates this very shy, I guess I'm an extrovert, but I'm a shy extrovert or what have you. And but at one point when I was younger, I thought I wanted to be an animator.

00;05;45;14 - 00;06;05;07
Speaker 2
I thought I wanted to do comics. And I was always drawing and all of this. And I got this hit that, no, this isn't for you. And it wasn't anything. It was more so being told, this isn't for me. And you know, I've mentioned this in this podcast before, having that opportunity to kind of come back to it, that particular discipline, but in a different way.

00;06;05;15 - 00;06;21;29
Speaker 2
And I think that's what doing this podcast helped me realize and I think a little bit from what you were describing, they kind of, you know, showed you like maybe this isn't the way that you should be approaching a career in art. This is maybe a different way that you're even thinking of it and it looks like it's really worked out for you.

00;06;22;19 - 00;06;38;26
Speaker 3
Yeah, it has. And I think I like that that you're approaching it from this other way. It's like I could still be creative. I think that's what I wanted to make sure is that I still had a creative job. And so I thought that at first it was going to be through graphic design and then second through fine art.

00;06;39;02 - 00;06;50;16
Speaker 3
But I still very much feel creative as a gallery owner and as a writer. You know, those are now the ways that I express myself. So I was still able to find that it was just different from what I expected at the very beginning.

00;06;51;13 - 00;07;04;05
Speaker 2
So. So tell us about Pikes Peak, Contemporary and Create Magazine. I want to learn a bit more about that. I mean, I'm out here reading the publications, but I want to hear directly from you and, you know, enlighten us a little bit. For those who are uninitiated.

00;07;05;09 - 00;07;32;19
Speaker 3
Of course, I'm happy to speak more about both of them. So Create Magazine is an independently published international print and digital magazine. It showcases the work of emerging artists as well as curators, gallerists and other industry leaders from around the world. It was founded by my good friend and business partner who actually met at university at Kutztown. She was at the time directing the off campus gallery and I was directing the on campus gallery.

00;07;32;19 - 00;08;12;00
Speaker 3
So we were very much kind of running in the same circles and doing similar things. We really connected and we stayed in touch after school and eventually about six, seven, eight years later, she decided that she wanted to start this platform. She is still a fine artist and she paints and her work is actually doing quite well. Her career as a finalist has been growing and but at the time she felt like she was struggling to get her first foot in the door as a young, emerging painter, trying to work with galleries and trying to get her name out there.

00;08;12;11 - 00;08;33;11
Speaker 3
And she just felt like she was hitting a wall and not able to present her work anywhere. So she decided, okay, if no one's going to give me that opportunity, I'm just going to make this space myself. So she started the first iteration of the magazine, which was Fresh Paint magazine, and eventually we rebranded to create so that it wouldn't just be for painters, it would be for all media.

00;08;33;18 - 00;09;01;02
Speaker 3
So that was it that I think back in 2016 or so. And now we are years into this, almost nine years of her publishing magazine. And I've been a part of it for a number of years. I'll do at least over five years. And so, yeah, the magazine has grown quite a bit. We're on our 32nd issue now and it's been such a wonderful, wonderful journey.

00;09;01;02 - 00;09;26;24
Speaker 3
I mean, we've now grown our online audience to over 200,000 and artists and curators and gallerists and people in the industry worldwide, which is amazing. Yes. Yes, thank you. Thank you. And so in each issue, we have interviews, we have a career advice column, and we also have a juried section that's selected by a different curator each time to make sure that each issue is unique and diverse.

00;09;27;06 - 00;10;06;21
Speaker 3
But as I kind of alluded to before, we're more than a publication, we're a platform. We have our Instagram where we share artists who are inspiring us, motivating us. So we just love every day. We also have a podcast where we do conversations like this with artists we love and we also together her and I wrote a book for emerging artists sharing our journey, everything that we learned in the first ten years, so that people didn't have to make the same mistakes that we did and they could skip ahead, jump start and just get to the good part, right, without having to figure things out as much as we did when we left school and

00;10;06;21 - 00;10;38;12
Speaker 3
we're trying to find our way. So that is kind of a little teaser on Create. And then PXP came about because we were serving this community of artists and kind of filling that need and gap for exposure. However, we eventually tapped into that market and asked, What else do you need from us? And the biggest thing that they asked for was, okay, we also want a place where we can sell, which of course makes sense for young artists again, trying to get their name out there, build their brand.

00;10;38;25 - 00;11;03;01
Speaker 3
And so I kind of took the helm on that since I at that point had ten years in the industry working in galleries, museums, auction house collectors, etc. and we started to, which stands for our last name Sprig for both of us are P and P and contemporary of course, because we deal specifically with emerging contemporary artists. So it's a sister brand, a counterpart to the magazine.

00;11;03;01 - 00;11;31;14
Speaker 3
It's meant to be that stepping stone for young artists to get that first taste of showing with the gallery and what's that what that is like so that they can then get that experience and move on to bigger opportunities, bigger galleries, you know, the next step, the next level. And so that's something that we started in 2019. It's now been three years, which again, I believe we survived the pandemic increasing this.

00;11;32;09 - 00;11;52;04
Speaker 3
But we and we were fully online from the beginning, which was great. It meant that I could always work with artists based worldwide. I work with clients based worldwide, and I didn't have to worry about having a space. Those costs like all of the profits, can go back into continuing to build the platform and make sure that I'm serving as many artists as possible.

00;11;52;19 - 00;12;15;19
Speaker 3
And we just did our first show in New York this past week, actually, which was a huge stepping stone. And the biggest accomplishment for me that we can was that we won the honorable mention for curatorial excellence. So that was just such a a wonderful thing to one. You know, for me personally, as a curator, as a young curator, to have that validation.

00;12;15;19 - 00;12;26;06
Speaker 3
But to for my artists, you know, the people that I've been working with for years to have them be recognized as well. So that is the story in like 5 minutes of your life. So create and PXP.

00;12;26;25 - 00;12;28;15
Speaker 2
Thank you. Congratulations.

00;12;29;00 - 00;12;30;02
Speaker 3
Thank you. Thank you.

00;12;30;16 - 00;13;03;03
Speaker 2
I like the entire time I wanted to interject, but, you know, I just. No, no, no. But I'm just too busy smiling because I like the way that you're describing what the work is. And, you know, being in this spot where you're able to help emerging artists, to help young artists kind of figure it out because, you know, I think one of the things that I've been pitching and leveraging in terms of what I do, I try to work with brands and things of that nature with helping them have their storytelling voice, putting out their podcast.

00;13;03;03 - 00;13;17;15
Speaker 2
And I just tell them, almost like, let someone like me do this to help you. I've made all the mistakes. I put a fit together, a guide or a podcast. I was like, I screwed up every possible way, and I've been doing this for 13 years, so it's just like, Oh yeah, you want to do it that way?

00;13;17;15 - 00;13;35;14
Speaker 2
You want to do it this way. This is the path of least resistance. And so hearing that, that's where a lot of your focus has been and helping artists and kind of blowing that out of what that idea is and what, you know, not specifically as far as creating a specifically being for painters there being for all disciplines.

00;13;36;05 - 00;13;59;24
Speaker 2
That's really important, especially like, you know, talking to people. I'll talk to artists and hear about looking for grants and things of that nature, looking for like support and that nature. And it's very siloed and the experience isn't particularly great. It's just like this cycle of rejection and not really knowing how to go about things, let alone having your stuff seen, let alone doing your work.

00;14;00;06 - 00;14;02;03
Speaker 2
So thank you for the work that you're doing.

00;14;03;15 - 00;14;28;16
Speaker 3
Of course. So I've enjoyed it. It's been about. But again, it's so important that people learn this because we want more people to continue to make careers in the arts. You know, it's just sad that when we were in school, people are professors would even tell us like, look to your left, look to your right, and like one of you is not going to be in the art world in the next within the next five years.

00;14;28;16 - 00;14;41;10
Speaker 3
And you don't want that to happen like there's so many talented people and we're just losing them because there's not enough support, there's not enough education. And just with these simple things, more people can can figure it out. That's all we want.

00;14;41;18 - 00;15;15;27
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm hearing it, you know, to like I said before, you know, not really knowing where this lane is at and being kind of like an outsider artist, which might be a question that I have later. But yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, you need to relocate because there's a better opportunity for you to kind of grow what you're doing out because, you know, like from my vantage point in having these conversations as, as you said early on, it's over 400 interviews in, you know, it's like an eight or it's like I have all of these different ideas based on talking to more talented people like yourself.

00;15;16;04 - 00;15;37;10
Speaker 2
And I'm like, How can I steal from you? So I want to ask about let's talk about art and business a little bit, art plus business. How would one build their brand while when they're working within the creative industry, we're often we're just going at it. We don't have time to really do the strategic part of it. We're just working.

00;15;37;10 - 00;15;39;18
Speaker 2
So let's talk about that a little bit.

00;15;39;18 - 00;15;59;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to give you the brief version, because this is exactly the kind of things that we cover in our book, which is called The Complete Smartest Guide. But I'm happy to share a little bit of the secret sauce. I'm going to hold myself to like four things because I could probably talk on this topic for a long time.

00;15;59;04 - 00;16;14;20
Speaker 3
So first, one way to go over is to create a narrative. You know, you have to remember that people are looking for what makes you unique. So you need to know that what that is. You know, this comes in handy when you're pitching people, when you're pitching media, when you meet someone new and it could really be anyone.

00;16;14;20 - 00;16;41;18
Speaker 3
I think that's another thing, too. We forget that, you know, if you're just sitting on the subway and you chat up the person next to you, they could become a collector. You never know. So remember that any person you meet could be a new the door to a new opportunity. But again, it goes back to you have to be able to tell your story and have an engaging way of sharing what makes you you the second part of this at hand is also being authentic.

00;16;41;27 - 00;17;10;04
Speaker 3
And we're seeing this a lot on social media in the past few years. You know, people were tired of seeing just the filtered images, the glossy images, the good, the wins, you know, be real, share, share the bad. I mean, it doesn't have to be horrible, but just like be real, be transparent. Sometimes people really relate to the things that don't go well, the mistakes, the failures I'm not afraid to share when that happens.

00;17;10;15 - 00;17;33;17
Speaker 3
And it's been cool because then your community, you know, they kind of they come out and their support and they say also you might find people, I'm dealing with this too. Sometimes it's just nice to have people commiserate. And another aspect of that is just like being nice, being a friendly follower. I know that sounds like quite sweet and simple advice, but you know, don't waste your time arguing with trolls.

00;17;33;17 - 00;17;53;00
Speaker 3
You're not going to please everyone. So, you know you're going if you're putting yourself out there in that authentic, transparent way, you're also going to get people that come back to you trying to cause drama. Just forget it. I think one of the best things that my business partner told me is nobody who's doing more than you will criticize you, only those who are doing this.

00;17;53;09 - 00;18;20;29
Speaker 3
So that changed everything for me. I love thinking about that, remembering that, and just not worrying about those people. The third thing, be consistent and I mean, this really just goes with any part of your creative business. You know, it it does get to a point where you're going to feel like you're shouting into the void or where you get that 99 rejection letter.

00;18;21;09 - 00;18;45;19
Speaker 3
But then you get that hundred. That's a yes and it totally makes up for it. So just hang in there. I know it's hard. It is so hard. Some days I've been there, but keep posting, keep showing up, keep knocking on doors, keep hitting the pavement. You got to do it. In this industry, really, in any industry, there's no easy path these days.

00;18;46;16 - 00;19;07;08
Speaker 3
So keep at it. And then the fourth one, probably one of my favorite and most important, your network is everything. So as much as you're doing all the other things that I said, continue to meet people, even if you are shy, even if you are an introvert. I 100% am. And I've still managed to grow my career and build my network.

00;19;07;24 - 00;19;27;22
Speaker 3
And that's and you don't even have to necessarily do this all the time through in-person networking. It is helpful. Eventually, you know, you can start relationships online, but you do want to eventually have that face to face time. It does make a big difference. But this is something that comes up too. And I get asked a lot because people like, what if I do live in New York?

00;19;27;22 - 00;19;44;07
Speaker 3
What if I don't live in L.A.? Okay, I live in Costa Rica. No, there's not a big art scene here. And I'm still managed to grow my career, actually almost exponentially in the past few years that I've lived here. And that's because, one, I did a bit of legwork when I lived in bigger cities like Philadelphia, Amsterdam, etc., in Chicago.

00;19;45;03 - 00;20;10;11
Speaker 3
But it's also because I continue to put myself out there through pitching, through code emails, to reaching out just through again, trying to meet people any way I can, and then the part B to that is following up because, you know, you send that one email and you might think, oh, they're not interested or Oh, they're just too busy.

00;20;10;11 - 00;20;31;12
Speaker 3
And sometimes, you know, emails just get lost or they are busy, but they were interested, they just something came up. So send that second email to is probably okay, maybe three if you really, really want to have this opportunity or meet this person or speak to someone. But beyond that, probably could let it be for a little bit.

00;20;31;12 - 00;20;53;26
Speaker 3
You can reach out in like six months or so, but make sure that you are following up and that also works for sales too. I've definitely had so many sales come through that happened just because I followed up with that client one last time to say, Hey, wait, you're interested in this? I don't know if it just got buried in your inbox or you're thinking about something else and they're like, Oh yeah, of course I did want this.

00;20;53;26 - 00;20;59;14
Speaker 3
And then it happened. So send us follow ups, build your network. Those are my things.

00;21;00;10 - 00;21;23;25
Speaker 2
Thank you. Thank you. That is that's great. And that's that. Absolutely. It works. I'm one of the masters of the scheduled email of o me back in six months is like, all right, I will absolutely six months to the day. And in having like some type of pitch and even when I'm doing like this, there are considerations me to made on who do I want to talk to?

00;21;23;29 - 00;21;50;17
Speaker 2
You know, like there will be people that come with weird pitches. Hey, can you help us tell a story? And I'm like, sure, but I recognize that for certain people that may come or may be interested in Come on, coming on, they're interested in buying, I guess some of that real estate, some of that goodwill that I have from the authenticity from the oh, this is a real guy having real conversations with people and by proxy, oh, you know, our brand might be a little bit on the air.

00;21;50;25 - 00;22;11;11
Speaker 2
We can kind of take some of that and move it up. So definitely I just try to maintain what I'm doing and you know, it's worked and it's been successful. So many of the things that you've said, there are definitely gems and jewels for people to add to their their tool kit. How do you make work feel like play?

00;22;11;12 - 00;22;13;27
Speaker 2
You don't have this question. How do you make work feel like play?

00;22;15;05 - 00;22;45;26
Speaker 3
Who is surprise one? Okay, how do I work feel? I play I, I think I try not to put too much stress on it. You know, I can take. But the good thing is that now I work for myself and also freelanced for a few other blogs, magazines, etc. So I'm like, okay, I'll give you an example. So today you're usually on Wednesdays or Thursdays we'll go over to my in-laws house and the first hour of my day I actually just spend playing fetch with my dog.

00;22;45;26 - 00;23;13;05
Speaker 3
So from 9 to 10 on everyone's day, it's dedicated time to just be with her, be outside and not think about work at all. So I think just scheduling time where you're not worried about work is really important. I guess you just like you're finding that balance so that when you do or when you are working, it's focused work and you're not thinking about like all these other things.

00;23;13;05 - 00;23;35;01
Speaker 3
I actually do like it's kind of segmenting time. So I guess that's one way I work with people that I like. You know, it's not just art I like and that's probably one of the best things about the gallery is that, again, I, I'm the curator, so I get to choose the work. However, it's also important to me that I'm supporting good people.

00;23;35;12 - 00;24;03;22
Speaker 3
So, you know, they've they're not just artists that they have a business relationship with, but they've also become friends. So that that makes it fun. Also, as I mentioned, my business partner, I've known her for over ten years since since school. So we chat almost every day via Instagram we are our dream chat on Instagram is ridiculous. We do not recommend this professionally for other entrepreneurs, but it has worked for us for many years.

00;24;03;22 - 00;24;24;26
Speaker 3
So that's what we do with that. I mean, that absolutely makes work more fun when it's the two of us still bouncing ideas off of each other. Yeah, learning from each other, growing with each other. So, you know, it's it's difficult. You know, it's not easy. Of course, having a work relationship with basically one of your best friends.

00;24;24;29 - 00;24;47;14
Speaker 3
Yeah, but we, we went into it very slowly, very carefully. We were friends first for ten years. And it wasn't until we knew that we were going to be friends for a long time was okay. We can now merge our friendship into also a business partnership. And I think the other thing that works is that we're different. Our strengths are our differences.

00;24;47;14 - 00;25;06;26
Speaker 3
She's very much the ideal person. She comes up with the big ideas and I'm the the workhorse. I love to execute things and I love to make things happen. So we really balance each other in that way. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think those, those things are, are probably my best answers as to how I keep things from.

00;25;07;19 - 00;25;28;24
Speaker 2
A shout out to you. That's, that's great. I, I've been in that spot before where, you know, working with a friend and kind of had a similar setup. And then as this sort of kind of took off and became a bigger, bigger thing and you know, I'm still kind of solid and doing what I do, but it just wasn't, you know, the bandwidth wasn't it wasn't there and so on.

00;25;28;24 - 00;25;51;28
Speaker 2
And, you know, it's just one of those things that it's it just didn't work. You find it out a little bit later or what have you. But I think being a person like I know that I'm an idea person, I recognize that like early on and you know, knowing that the small steps, not that I can't do them or those more granular things like I'm interested in them, but that's not where I naturally go towards.

00;25;51;28 - 00;26;13;05
Speaker 2
I'm like, Hey, you know, let's, let's build this rocket. It's like, you know, we need fuel. What? We need fuel. I, we feel we just got a rocket to build is fine. So yeah, I think in recognizing that that's some of the relationships I work with when I get into, you know, I've talked to people who do, you know, curation and so they say, you know, there is a curatorial thing that you're doing here with these guests.

00;26;13;15 - 00;26;35;13
Speaker 2
Or even if I'm doing programing and things of that nature, I'm like trying to do every step because I know that this event is going to be successful, this programing is going to be successful. But I may omit a detail because it doesn't come naturally to me. Just getting the the end result is what matters to me most.

00;26;35;22 - 00;26;44;02
Speaker 2
So bringing in people that can kind of see those intermediate steps is like, you know, you should probably do it this way. That's very helpful for me having that workhorse. A workhorse.

00;26;45;12 - 00;27;14;27
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think what you may you're tapping into here is also like setting boundaries and realizing your strengths. And I'm not necessarily able to do that all the time with the gallery because I still mostly run it myself, but generally speaking, I mean, it's, it's, it's a good idea to just know what those are for you and realize that eventually, you know, if you don't like doing X, that's something you can hire out to then make your your days just more focused on what you actually do like to do.

00;27;14;27 - 00;27;19;05
Speaker 3
Your zone of focus is on a genius. Rather than having to do something that feels like work.

00;27;19;21 - 00;27;42;14
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I and I think that that's one of those moments where when that sort of artistic mindset and that's described in a very weird way at times, you know, you get a whole thing about starving artists and artists in their own time and they don't have any strategy and structure with them more business oriented mindset where it's presented is uncreative and very rigid.

00;27;43;25 - 00;28;07;22
Speaker 2
Do you think that that's important that folks of either of those disciplines is kind of like have those sort of relationships in those sort of interactions and maybe in different terms? Do you feel that it's important for maybe an artist to take a class on finance or maybe, you know, someone that's more business oriented to kind of like you might want to have like a, you know, like a meditation class or something like that.

00;28;07;22 - 00;28;39;28
Speaker 3
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I'm mostly coming at this from the angle of artist having business acumen, which I think is essential. Basically, I would advise people to learn as much as you can. I mean, they're as we were just talking about, there's obviously the option to hire out and outsource things like taxes and accounting, etc.. But what you can learn, you'll obviously save money on and to, it's just notice and and care about your business as much as you do.

00;28;40;06 - 00;29;01;20
Speaker 3
You can find amazing employees who will work really hard for you, but ultimately your art or your creative business is is your thing. And so the more that you know, you can make sure that everything is running as it should be, the better. And I mean, until you get to the level where you can really like outsource to all of the right people.

00;29;03;02 - 00;29;28;13
Speaker 3
But as you're growing, as you're evolving, it's just a definitely, definitely a great idea to learn as much as you can. And the other thing about right now is that there's just so much information that's easily accessible for you and that doesn't have to cost a lot. Yes, you can hire coaches, you can take those thousand dollar business classes, etc. You can go about go back to school or go to school for a business degree or certificate.

00;29;28;23 - 00;30;03;05
Speaker 3
However, there are also books and you can go to library to get them for free. There are podcasts like this where you can hear directly from a source from entrepreneurs, and you can also go back to what I mentioned and network and do informational interviews. You can reach out to people that you admire, ask them, Hey, can I have 15 minutes of your time for a quick call just to pick your brain about what you've done or if you're a little more savvy and willing to put yourself out there maybe 15 minutes, quick coffee, 20 minute coffee meeting.

00;30;03;08 - 00;30;09;07
Speaker 3
Do that and you'll learn so much as well as start to grow your network. So double in.

00;30;09;18 - 00;30;12;01
Speaker 2
And it does that face to face thing that you talked about as well.

00;30;12;15 - 00;30;14;07
Speaker 3
Absolutely.

00;30;14;07 - 00;30;39;22
Speaker 2
So with that, I got one more real question that I got some rapid fire questions that I've been adding as you've been talking, because I've picked up on things from from your vantage point, you know, we're on the back nine, I think, of the pandemic or what have you. How what are your thoughts on the ways that it's changed, how we consume or appreciate art and how we're creating art?

00;30;40;12 - 00;31;02;23
Speaker 3
Good question. And I've talked about this a little bit on the podcast episode I did recently, but expanding a little bit on that, it absolutely has changed the way that we consume, create art. There's no doubt about that. Obviously, there's a stronger online market than there was before, which is good because the art industry is such a slow industry.

00;31;02;23 - 00;31;27;12
Speaker 3
It takes a long time for the whole industry to adapt to new technology. So it's it's kind of good in the sense that it really pushed the arts to be much more online, which is great in one sense, because it allows for greater democracy in terms of artists being able to reach wider audiences on their own. They don't necessarily need those gatekeepers, those curators as galleries to open doors for them.

00;31;28;00 - 00;31;59;23
Speaker 3
And, you know, obviously I'm a big proponent of artists doing more for themselves and making opportunities for themselves. So in that way it has been really awesome. And I'm seeing many artists thriving exactly because of this, because they're able to do it on their own, and especially if they're the ones that have that kind of entrepreneurial spirit, which again, we already talked about there, they're seeing even more success because with that little bit of knowledge and they're really able to turn their art into a business and make their own living and really thrive.

00;32;00;10 - 00;32;25;03
Speaker 3
However, it's a double edged sword. And the other part of this is that there's a new pressure for artists not just to be artists, but also content creators so that, you know, it can end up diluting their creativity in their process. And of course, when you're feeling forced, that's never really the conduit for true inspiration and invention. So it's something that I know a lot of artists are navigating.

00;32;25;11 - 00;32;56;04
Speaker 3
They're feeling a bit burnt out and they're feeling like they're just not having those as meaningful of connections or experiences online as maybe they used to. So there's a give and take. There's a little bit of both. But ultimately I think, well, I guess before I go to the final takeaways, what I'm seeing is that because of this pull back and forth, artists are kind of looking beyond Instagram now, beyond social media to other digital options that are out there.

00;32;56;04 - 00;33;17;03
Speaker 3
I mean, we saw people getting into NFT markets kind of going a bit crazy right now. So I don't know if that's at least how it is right now is fully the answer. However, they're also getting back into showcasing their work off line now that hopefully fingers crossed, we are indeed in the downturn of the pandemic and things are opening up more fully.

00;33;17;14 - 00;33;43;10
Speaker 3
Then people can go back to putting on their own shows, even again not having to rely on a gallery, although those are still options. Of course. So final takeaway is, again, there's the good and the bad. I think it really just depends on the specific artist, what they're most interested in doing. And the cool thing too is that because of all of this online accessibility, you can make your own path.

00;33;43;10 - 00;34;01;12
Speaker 3
It does not have to be in order to be a successful artist that you have to step one show or the gallery step to get your work acquired via museum. Step three Do the resonance step for you know, you don't have to go agency. You can really make your own path and find success in so many different ways.

00;34;02;03 - 00;34;26;10
Speaker 2
Thank you. That's, I think, very powerful, very important for people to hear because I you know, it's like I'm a podcaster. You know, that's really the way I put it. And when I talk to people say, have you ever thought about doing it this way or that way, which, you know, places have goals and I get it. You know, you don't want to see your stuff in a coffee shop, but also you have a lot of your stuff in storage and no one's seen your work.

00;34;26;20 - 00;34;49;07
Speaker 2
So some people are putting their stuff in there and I see them doing solo shows. So which one is it? You know, and just as a way of thinking and I think the key thing and I'm getting that is kind of what I felt like you were touching on that. There's no set way. There are many different ways that folks can go about that process, and it may not be with a gallery in a traditional sense.

00;34;49;07 - 00;35;00;10
Speaker 2
It may not be this tried and true sort of path which with that it brings me to my rapid fire questions who don't do this, don't have a tried and true path.

00;35;01;15 - 00;35;01;28
Speaker 3
Okay.

00;35;02;06 - 00;35;09;02
Speaker 2
So I want to preface this by saying don't overthink. Don't overthink that. I think and brevity is key here. I've got six of them.

00;35;09;25 - 00;35;13;22
Speaker 3
All right, let's go.

00;35;13;22 - 00;35;19;23
Speaker 2
All right. And I'm going to throw out a simple one, the easy one. If I it you know, you do a test and it's like, here is your sample question.

00;35;20;03 - 00;35;20;23
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00;35;21;03 - 00;35;25;20
Speaker 2
Since you're a writer in words matter, what is the most powerful word?

00;35;26;26 - 00;35;27;05
Speaker 3
Art.

00;35;28;02 - 00;35;32;12
Speaker 2
Cheers. What is the first thing you do when you wake up?

00;35;33;05 - 00;35;33;27
Speaker 3
See my dog?

00;35;35;01 - 00;35;41;11
Speaker 2
I usually say regret. No, I'm.

00;35;41;11 - 00;35;42;24
Speaker 3
He's my alarm.

00;35;42;24 - 00;35;48;29
Speaker 2
So this is true. My cat is kind of a dick. He might be mine. Feed me, you fool. It's like, oh.

00;35;49;22 - 00;35;50;16
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00;35;51;27 - 00;36;08;10
Speaker 2
No, this. This definitely is me kind of echoing Austin Kleon here. And I like how he applies this this answer in those instances where you get a good review or bad review or what we kind of daemons those what do you do with good reviews? What do you do with bad reviews?

00;36;08;10 - 00;36;27;29
Speaker 3
Good reviews, celebrate. I mean, I get so excited, you know, I get like, yes, the best examples are the book. People share a book on stories and I mean it makes my day. It honestly makes my day to see those bad ones. I used to get so disappointed when. Ah, so the book that's out now is actually the expanded.

00;36;28;02 - 00;36;52;11
Speaker 3
Oh, you can kind of see it in the background. That's okay. And then that, that, that's early version anyway. So the early version was like 90 pages. We did not think it would be much of anything but ended up doing really, really well when we launched it. And except that when it came out, we got one review from a woman who made a ten minute long video about how much she hated it.

00;36;52;11 - 00;37;16;06
Speaker 3
Again, it was a 90 page book that you didn't think that it was going to be such a thing. But yeah, it was. So I cried when I saw that video. I watched the whole video, which I shouldn't have done, but I watched that all video and I cried. And then I called my mom and she laughed. She was like, Why would this woman make such an effort to make a ten minute video about your 90 page book?

00;37;16;06 - 00;37;41;22
Speaker 3
Like, when is the time? Who cares? Yes. And then, you know, that helped put it into perspective. And since then, I've done a lot better with my negative reviews and. You know, I read them and decide, is there real criticism in here that is valuable? If so, then I can use that. If not, no more. Don't, you know, don't think about it.

00;37;42;04 - 00;38;04;12
Speaker 3
Which was really helpful because she so she made this ten minute video, but it wasn't about the content, it was about the colors, the design and the size of the book and all the silly things. However, there were a few reviews on Amazon that said, Oh, we wish you talked about X, Y, Z. And so that's why we took that version down, expanded it three times as much, and the next one.

00;38;04;12 - 00;38;06;23
Speaker 3
And now we have many, many wonderful, lovely reviews.

00;38;06;23 - 00;38;08;08
Speaker 2
So I like that.

00;38;08;16 - 00;38;09;06
Speaker 3
Much longer of an.

00;38;09;06 - 00;38;40;14
Speaker 2
Answer. But no, no, no, no, no. That's a that's huge, though, because I find more and more reviews are you know, it's like, you know, I don't think I agree with this person's decisions and say, you know, if you read some of this fiction, it's like, can we review the reviewers and re critique the critics? You know, like for for podcasts, you know, you know, this being a being a podcaster as well where you get those like, you know, average reviews and it's like, I'll read the reviews, but if someone just gives me like I got like two or three people that just gave me one star with no review.

00;38;40;21 - 00;39;01;08
Speaker 2
And I was like, Uh, someone's a hater. That's literally the way I put it. But if it's something that actually has words in it and it's like, Oh, well, I wish you would do more of this to your point, but then it's like something that can build upon. And, you know, for me in trying to understand the whole building, a brand, building a community, you have to take then to that stuff into account.

00;39;01;08 - 00;39;12;21
Speaker 2
And I'm very transparent of, hey, let me put out a poll. Hey, would guys think from a persona research sort of standpoint, that's what I would use that information for. But for someone just trolling, kick rocks, I got nothing for you.

00;39;13;13 - 00;39;15;11
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Absolutely.

00;39;16;04 - 00;39;24;22
Speaker 2
I'm name a creative. This is a great Segway. Name a creative that is overheated. Like you're like, come on, not that bad.

00;39;24;22 - 00;39;33;28
Speaker 3
Oh, this is such a good question to me about this. I'm not able to go on top of my head.

00;39;33;28 - 00;39;37;24
Speaker 2
Oh, gosh, you can swap it out for a different one as I have a backup just in case.

00;39;39;03 - 00;39;44;23
Speaker 3
You mean back questions. But let me see if I can think of something with all your while you're giving me that one, because that is such a good question.

00;39;44;23 - 00;39;54;27
Speaker 2
But okay, this, this is this one might be another stumper, but what is a word that comes to mind for you when you hear the phrase outsider art?

00;39;56;13 - 00;40;23;22
Speaker 3
I mean, self-taught? It's not not an exciting word, but that's that's what I you know, the art market would constitute outside art as people that are self-taught. But I think it's great that that's been a new market that's opened up and that people are getting excited about it. I mean, anything that allows people who are outside of the traditional education system to continue to be seen and recognize is great, in my opinion.

00;40;24;03 - 00;40;31;12
Speaker 2
Sure. And here's the last one. This one is going to be a challenge. No, maybe. No. You know, it's not going to be a child. It's going to be easy for you.

00;40;32;08 - 00;40;33;01
Speaker 3
Okay.

00;40;33;01 - 00;40;49;07
Speaker 2
I was thinking about this one yesterday when I went back through my questions. So the year that you graduated from high school. So we're in this period. What was the song that was playing during that time like? What is your favorite song that came out on a year you graduated from high school?

00;40;50;09 - 00;41;04;03
Speaker 3
Oh, that's a good one. Oh, gosh. I mean, I don't know if it came out that year, but I remember our prom song during my senior year was from Snow Patrol. And I don't know if you remember that band.

00;41;04;07 - 00;41;05;03
Speaker 2
No sober troll.

00;41;05;13 - 00;41;20;10
Speaker 3
Yeah. So their song Chasing Cars. So that was our our prom song. Very strange. But I definitely when that comes on, I'm like, wow, high school memory.

00;41;20;10 - 00;41;25;04
Speaker 2
I think ours was like, what's love jarule fat Joe and Ashanti.

00;41;25;13 - 00;41;34;27
Speaker 3
Yeah, I saw my gosh, all of those are all songs. Okay, on time. It's like one of my best, favorite, favorite song ever.

00;41;34;28 - 00;41;35;18
Speaker 2
This line.

00;41;35;18 - 00;41;36;05
Speaker 3
From that.

00;41;36;17 - 00;41;49;27
Speaker 2
As a line from What's Love is like a come into the club with my head down Michael Jackson town. I was like, Yo, if I come in to the prom with a fedora on, I'm not I'm not here. We're not doing it anymore.

00;41;49;27 - 00;41;52;28
Speaker 3
Oh, that's such a good one. Oh, my gosh. Wow, what a throwback.

00;41;53;05 - 00;42;04;15
Speaker 2
But every now and again, I'll have one. Absolutely. Okay. I wasn't expecting that one. That's a good one. So they have it. I'll give you one more one more chance to throw it out there if you have any overheated person.

00;42;05;00 - 00;42;13;09
Speaker 3
Oh, no, I can't think of any good ones because I guess the people that I can think of I would hate on them do it for different reasons.

00;42;14;00 - 00;42;14;26
Speaker 2
That's fair. I love it.

00;42;16;06 - 00;42;33;23
Speaker 3
So that sounds mean. I think. I just mean like, you know, you could say someone like a like Damien Hirst or whatever, but there there are some things about him that I don't like either. Like Jeff Koons like. But yeah, there, there are things I don't like about his work either. So anyway, we'll just leave it at that.

00;42;34;03 - 00;42;55;26
Speaker 2
That's fair. That's fair. So with that, I want to thank you for being on this podcast. This has been this has been a treat. This has been great. And so two things as we wrap up here, I want to invite and encourage you to tell the fine folks where to check you out, where to check out PCP, where to check out Create magazine, and where they can get the complete smartest guide.

00;42;56;01 - 00;42;57;10
Speaker 2
So please follow yours.

00;42;57;25 - 00;43;19;09
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure to chat with you and these questions were very, very fun. So thank you and congrats for being an amazing host. That was really nice. Sometimes I get a lot of the same questions, so it's always a joy to kind of be kept on my toes and think of some different things to say, okay, where you can find me.

00;43;19;09 - 00;43;51;22
Speaker 3
So my gallery is on Instagram at Pikes Peak Contemporary and of course our website is just w w w okay. Be contemporary dot com as well. I am also personally on Instagram at my last name pew ig y pics. So why access? That was me. If you want to see more of me my art adventures on my blog and you can follow Create magazine where it is at Create Magazine and same thing W WW dot create magazine dot com and what else.

00;43;51;22 - 00;44;11;16
Speaker 3
Oh the complete smart guide. Of course we have pages for the book on both the PCB and create website. You can also just search the complete smartest guide on Google and it should pull up our Amazon page. It's also invites a noble and Walmart and at a variety of independent bookstores too. So we got you covered on that front.

00;44;11;24 - 00;44;19;02
Speaker 3
You can check out the page on KEXP. I have I think, all of the independent bookstores where I've seen it so far listed there.

00;44;19;12 - 00;44;37;01
Speaker 2
Thank you. So there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Alicia Puig for coming on to the podcast and I'm Rob Lee, saying that there's art in and around your neck of the woods. You just got to look for it.