Amplifying Underrepresented Voices: Terrell Tilford's Mission

Swell AI Transcript: Terrell Tilford.mp3
Rob Lee: Welcome to the Truth in This Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today I am thrilled to engage in a conversation with our next guest, an intentional, determined, and inspiring creative whose work is rooted in uplifting and connecting culture and community. They are the founder and creative director of Band of Vices. Additionally, they boast an award-winning acting career, have a TED Talk on the way, a book, just, you know, fingers in multiple pots. Please welcome the returning and the great Terrell Tilford. Welcome to the podcast.
Terrell Tilford: Thank you, brother. I'm glad to be back. You know, I was like, well, I've never been invited back to a podcast somewhere. So, you know, I was like, well, I guess I ain't pissed nobody off the first time. So I guess we're good to go.

Rob Lee: And the thing that's really funny about it, right? This is almost two years to the date when we initially talked. We had the initial pod. And so definitely seeing all of the really cool things on the gram and even on LinkedIn and just on the website, just seeing sort of your work since the last time that we chatted and the work with band devices and your sort of expansion, because I'm seeing new titles and all of that stuff. I was like, OK, shout out, shout out. So before we kind of get into the main stuff that I kind of tease there a little bit, I want to give you the floor to to introduce yourself. And that's the thing that I enjoy doing, because I think it's a lot of strength and power in it, like how people present themselves. I always use the sort of comparison. When someone introduced me, they'll say, Oh, I've heard influencer. I've heard this. I've heard that. And I was like, I'm just a guy with a microphone, you know, and I like to see where people present themselves and how they describe what they do and what their background is. So if you will, floor is yours.

Terrell Tilford: I was like, you know what, let me just go to one of my Instagram or something to see what I've written recently. One, I'm Terrell Tilford. I'm the founder and creative director of Band of Vices. This is my second fine art company in almost 30 years. My first gallery was Tilford Art Group, and that ran until 2010. I took five years off, rebranded as band devices in 2015. And, you know, really the way I really see myself is just while my bio says I amplify artists and their rich brands by creating visionary pathways to uplift and connect culture and community. That's correct. I ultimately consider myself a social advocate for visual artists and other artists as well. It's important for me to use my voice, use my platform, however that exists, to really do what I consider cultural work on behalf of ultimately thought-provoking, fearless, and unapologetic artists.

Rob Lee: I love it. I love it. And so as I as I touched on a little bit earlier that, you know, it's been a couple of years since we last chatted. And as I've seen, you know, sort of the the changes and updates and just time passes. Right. And so could you speak on sort of maybe the the the evolution or like sort of what's been new over the last few years in terms of you know, the mission, the impact around, like, underrepresented voices and the creative communities that you're working with and you're working to support through your work.

Terrell Tilford: I think the greatest journey in these past couple of years has really been honing in that much more intently on what our focus is. And so our relationships with whether it's other brands, whether it's like the Getty Museum, Geffen Playhouse, the Lakers, something like that. It's just gotten really, really, I don't want to call it intense, but just that much more intentional, that much more specific and really going, how are we best using our platform to fulfill the greater mission? I think when we last spoke, we had just moved into the building I'm in now, which is 5,000 square feet from our building across the street, which was 1,000 square feet. And we may have been maintaining both during that time. And then, unfortunately, just as a result of economics, what have you, we had to go ahead and let the smaller building go. And so while we're in this bigger one now, we've been able to align ourselves with a number of productions and other brands and really God, it's weird, but it's almost a sense of, while you still need to do exhibitions and sales to pay the bills, We've also just done some things, a lot of things that we knew weren't going to make any money at all, that we just felt like it was important and significant to do that work. It's important to show certain artists just because they have a strong voice and they have a futuristic voice as well. It will be a time when people will catch up to them. You know, which, you know, I don't necessarily concern myself with in terms of where, where we are in the now, but I believe that you have to show artists and you have to do things and if you have a certain platform, if you are able to do it. You have to do things that are out of your comfort zone, but also to do things that historically may be out of other people's comfort zones as well. So that they go, oh, shit, wait a minute. I would have never expected them to do this, or I've never had this experience, or what is that about? I'm curious. And to bring people into the building, into the folder, if we're off site somewhere else, in a way to, again, experience something greater than they may have experienced previously. And to me, that has no economic that has less of an economic value than a social responsibility.

Rob Lee: I think I think that's a really good point there. And, you know, at times when I'm when I'm doing this and I have these these conversations, I do these these podcasts and we're coming up on 700 interviews at this point. Yeah, in four years. And, you know, you have these conversations with folks and they're like, how are you monetizing? How are you doing this? And how are you doing that? And you should put it behind a paywall. And I was like, these are things that are going against the ethos, my values and so on. And, you know, I've had conversations with folks that will, you know, who are in sort of the, sort of the social justice. Some of them are politicians, but it's more in that I work within the arts sectors. And you'll hear like, this might not be a good economic driver or good in this way. It's going to be a loss, if you will, but it's probably the right thing to do. So I'm always curious as to how does one, and maybe get your take on this. How does one parse through that? Is it sort of that curatorial sort of approach of, I have a feeling, my gut's saying this, or what is it for you when it comes to making those sort of decisions?

Terrell Tilford: I think it's a cross between, I really work from the heartbeat of people and experiences and their art as well. And sometimes you just have that sixth sense about someone, or you just believe in them. And you just go, damn, you know what? The timing on this is probably not the most optimal time for them. But if not us, then who will? And to me, that becomes a social responsibility. that I have to kind of balance with everything else. And when I get with my team and we sit down and go, OK, these next two months might be a little rough. But when we think about the greater picture of what we're doing and why we're doing it, it does have its own value. And yeah, it's a challenge. But then you put up exhibitions that you just know are going to be a go. They may not. And you just go, well, we put all of our effort into that. So why can't we put a similar level of value into things that we know won't have an economic upside to it in the short term?

Rob Lee: You know? Yeah. And one of the things I'll say as I kind of lead into this next question, because I think it aligns, is, you know, when I go back and think about that first interview that we had, and I just remember sort of this this influx of just, you know, bad advices showing like Baltimore artists like in a completely different coast. And it was just so uniquely aligned with what I was looking to do, amplifying sort of our people here. And, you know, you'll probably like this. You know, I believe Monica's work was there, Monica Ikegwu. And Monica did a portrait of me in my studio. It's it's great. And so can you can you speak on some of the just just maybe one or two examples of like really milestones or like memorable moments over the last few years when it comes to like, yeah, we absolutely were six months. We absolutely were a year in front of people even talking about, let's say, you know, Baltimore artists. It's like now people are talking about it, but you guys were early, you know?

Terrell Tilford: You know, I just I just came back from Miami for Basel. We were exhibiting at Context Art Miami. And you wouldn't believe how many people rolled up on us that were like, yo, y'all have put a gang of Baltimore artists on game. or whatever. And I was, you know, we can only take credit for a very small part of it. I just say, you know what? I said, don't sleep on Baltimore. They got a dope system up in there, what have you. But then we also had a great curator out of Baltimore, Thomas James, come through with slings and arrows, with a whole crew of artists as well. So I definitely want to shout him out and give him his props for that as well. And there's just been so many different artists over the years that have just went so many different ways. I think in my most immediate recollection is probably like Victoria Casanova, whose solo show we just recently did about four months ago, a show called Paradox, her second solo show. And I'll get to my point, but in sharing her work even in Miami, so many people were connected to, yes, her artwork, but they were also connected to their story. This is a young woman who less than 10 years ago was locked out of her apartment. She climbed the scaffolding five stories up to get in. There was a window open. She jumped from the railing to the window to try and get in. And she didn't make it. And she fell five stories. And she literally broke every bone in her body. And for someone that was originally trained as a dancer, the doctor said that they were going to have to sever her leg, which fortunately they didn't. Her pelvis was crushed. Her spine was shattered. All sort of brain activity and attacks as well. And she taught herself how to draw in the hospital. And here she is 10 years later, sort of using that trauma but in a real, reinforcing way for herself to redefine the notions of the female physical form in contemporary artwork. And she's saying that, you know, don't count out the duality or the multiplicity of how complex the female form is. And she does these oil paintings and then she does these graphite on paper with oil paintings of the body contorted and twisted and this and that. And while it may not look perfect according to art standards, it just has its own beauty to it because she's re-owned for herself her body. And then she draws them perfectly in their contorted ways. And then she scratches out the faces and put these little Crayola or what have you, like eyes and mouth on them. They call them like monsters. And that's the psychological component that she's saying that carried her through her rehabilitation over these years. So when you come across an artist like that, who's young and who's thinking the way that she is, and she's as talented as she is, you go, I gotta do something with them. I selfishly just love the work and just actively wanna do something. And that's one of those shows that you put it up and people come in and they're just absolutely just blown away. Just, you know, just really, you know, and there have been a number of shows like that, but what I'm most, I think, sort of proud of, it was interesting. When people down in Miami walked into our booth, and while we had the smallest booth in the fair, it felt like the biggest because One, we were on a corner, and it was just vibrant. It was energetic. And the number one thing, people would come into the booth and hang out, and they'd be like, and we were showing three artists, and they were like, man, the energy in here is just like crazy. And that's the same comment that we get in the gallery here. The number one response that we get, and we get it 8, 10 times a week, and it's always a surprise, and it's just so dope. People can be here, and at some point, they'll be like, man, it just feels good to be in here. It just feels good in here. And I was just always, like, prayer hands, like, ma'am, thank you that however you're moved, however you're touched, however you're compelled to engage the artwork, community, whatever it may be, that you have a sense of belonging for yourself in the spaces, whether it's a booth in Miami or a gallery here in LA or whatever. And that's part of really the ethos of what, you know, part of our mission is just, you know, just building something, continuing to build something in a way that people, they just, they essentially take a sense of ownership with it. Like this is my space. This is where I come to get healed. This is where I come to get fortified. You know, those feelings.

Rob Lee: It's great. And, you know, it's I want to get your take when it comes to like your work, when it comes to bad devices, when, you know, you speak with someone and they're giving you sort of their take of what the mission is and what the value is and just what they're they're getting out of sort of the work, the great work that's happening. Because I recently had a conversation with a curator. We were just talking about this, this podcast. And I was like, I hear anywhere from, you're doing this, you're doing light work, your style is like this. And I'm just like, all of it is valid, but all of it is not what I'm absolutely shooting for. So what are some of the things that you're hearing about your work when you encounter artists that might come over to your booth, that might come to the gallery, that you're crushing in, that's what you're really doing, these sort of, first-person anecdotal sort of success stories?

Terrell Tilford: It's always appreciative. You know, we get a lot of love, man. We were in Paris two months ago for ACA Art Fair. And this is, you know, our first big international art fair. And going around and, you know, making a point to introduce myself to other galleries and curators, what have you. And then, you know, you mentioned Band of Vices. And this was probably let's say 40%, maybe 30, somewhere in there. But people are like, oh, your band devices, and that sort of thing. And so many people were like, man, I just love you guys' programming. I just love your programming. And again, the work that we do is so hard and requires so much. And oftentimes, the economics don't add up to the effort. But knowing Not knowing that you're touching people the way that you are and then ultimately learning of ways in which you are impacting the culture and the broader culture at hand. That's what keeps us energized. That's what keeps us going. And that's the part where, you know, we just remain humble. you know, within it. You know, we got a great New York Times, you know, hit that came out digitally a few days ago. And I literally just came from driving all over L.A. trying to find a New York Times and bought seven copies. I didn't realize newspapers cost that much money nowadays. Yeah, I was like, I thought it was like 50 cents, you know. But, you know, to to get those sort of what I call bumps, you know, here and there, you just go, hopefully this keeps us more energized to keep doing the work. So when people, you know, to try and answer your question more effectively, when people, unless they're completely off mark somewhere, I allow people to arrive at how they arrive at us. It's the same way of curating a show. I'm a storyteller with curating. However, if somebody comes into the space and decides to go to chapter 9 before starting at chapter 1, that's OK. I want them to feel compelled and pulled in whatever direction that their spirit moves them in, because I don't want to control the narrative. All I know is when you put your intention into it, and you know what you're doing, you know why you're doing it, then the rest of it just is what it is. Every once in a while, you may have what I call creative tension with someone. And sometimes both parties can't figure it out in the same way. And I want to go, let's just get on the phone. Let's just meet in person. And then sometimes people, they just want to, no, I just want to stay mad and I want to stay in this space and whatever. I just go, you know what? I don't. I'm not that person. Nothing in life is permanent for me except when they close that casket. So I'm here for different reasons than I think, despite all of our good press and I don't want to call it notoriety, but just exposure. And, you know, like I said, this work is too hard to endure it the way that we have for it to be something loftier. Like, you have to, for myself, you know, I just know that there's so much purpose in this, man. And, you know, there are times I don't even understand it, you know? But you just go, you know what? This is work I believe in. These are people that I believe in. you know, I pull up to this big ass expensive building, you know, when I do. And I just I start with thank you. I start with thank you and then walk inside and wait for something to blow up.

Rob Lee: Gratitude is a big piece of it. And, you know, as I was sharing with you sort of before we got started in earnest is that, you know, you kind of I kind of set through these goals of what I want to look through for the course of the year and just kind of constantly progressing and not getting sort of that feedback of this person said this was good or what I'm doing is good and really being aligned with why I'm doing what I'm doing or why I put this time in it. Because, you know, it's also I shared before we got into it, it's not necessarily a cash cow, per se, but it is something that I think has a lot of value. And it equips me with the opportunity to, you know, satisfy my curiosity, but also maybe the curiosity of listeners and be able to connect with folks that, you know, are super talented, that are super knowledgeable. It's like that saying, when you're not the smartest person in the room going to a different room, it's like, I'm always able to go into a new room and build it up by my thing. And, you know, it's just something about that, something about having you know, those those opportunities and seeing what that value is. But it can be those moments where it feels discouraging. It can be those moments where it's just like this. This is a lot. And it is those moments when. you're sharing something. I'll share this with you. Like, I think where I sit is somewhere between journalism and art and the way that I approach what I do. And I remember having to really do the clench jaw thing. I was at an award thing and I'm being acknowledged for a substantial grant that I got to fund most of the season. And after I did my speech, I had one of the artists, one of the fine artist types, tell me like, I don't know why you think you're an artist, you're not an artist. And it was just like, immediate sort of like, you're trying to bring me down. And it was just a really weird take. And I didn't feel discouraged at that moment, but I definitely took inventory of it and I remembered it. And it's always trying to like figure out where your spot is at and all of these different things that play a role in like what one might look like, where one is from and sort of what that scene looks like. And in being in a place that is primarily of a majority, and having to speak with them about how great the work I was doing amplifying folks that look like me and you. It was a very interesting period. That was definitely a challenge as I'm growing and doing more things and getting that exposure, I now have to combat that, whereas probably when we previously talked, that wasn't a thing. I don't know, it's just something that I just take inventory of.

Terrell Tilford: Well, you know, and I appreciate you sharing that. I was thinking, as you started talking about this, that, you know, what you're also doing is anthropological. You know, so and to me, that marries the journalism with the art as well. To me, that's like the offspring of both of those, you know, that that you really are, you know, delving in and unearthing and Like really getting, you know, hopefully to the heartbeat of people so that other people can experience, you know, experience it in the forms that, you know, you shared and make it available, you know, to other people. And there's so much worth in it. There just is. You know, we have this new technology and or accessible technology. And if we're not using it, then, you know, shame on us.

Rob Lee: Yeah. And thank you, because it is it is that thing where as I was watching this documentary earlier and I was in a barbershop, as you can see, I'm blazed up right now. I was watching this documentary and we were talking about sort of how history changes. And it's like, this is common knowledge. You know, no, no, it's not like this is now. not what we're discussing. We've actually rebranded what this story is. And I think a lot of times when stories that come from communities that we come from that feature folks that look like us, those stories are changed when it becomes something that is a moneymaker, when it becomes something that's an economic driver. And I think being able to do, as you were touching on, who else is going to do it? And what I'm doing in archiving this, I would imagine the interview that we did two years ago should not be the same as this interview. I shouldn't be saying, so I really like your work. Tell me more about it. It should be something that's a bit richer and is something that is a good accompaniment to that first one. But people should, to your point, be able to get something out of from the heart of that conversation and the sort of thinking that goes into the work and to the documenting of the work.

Terrell Tilford: Yeah, I mean, I would like to think that, you know, that these serve as, you know, not just resources, but as, you know, their own, you know, classes, if you, I don't want to call it masterclass, but you know, their own classes in which, you know, you gleam various things from, you know, people from, you know, different disciplines, you know, within the work, where you really sort of you just get to tap in. It's like reading biographies of well-known, successful, however you characterize. But much like reading those biographies, you read and understand what people have gone through to get to where they got to. And you just go, man, everyone has a story. you know, you know, I don't know of anybody that just, you know, woke up with it being easy, and it just remained easy, just their entire existence. And that whole thing is like, No, you know, we went through some shit. And, you know, we arm wrestled and battled and yet all these things, but we but we still we, we knew, to some degree, what we were working toward and why, you know, you know, you want something greater, from all of this and hopefully you want it for other people and hopefully somehow this becomes a little easier or more manageable for the next generation behind us at the same time. I got a nine-year-old daughter now that is absorbing and has been absorbing everything since day one anyway, but… but from that perspective and younger artists and you know that's why I really try I really work toward making myself accessible to other people because so often they don't have the accessibility or look I'm overextended but I end up having these conversations with people almost every single day need there. People walked into the booth, a couple of them. I was like, do they know about my other platform? Because my man was like, and the sister who was a psychotherapist is now we got to talk. And they were like, I need to talk to you. They were like, it's not. They were like, yeah. One brother was like, yeah, I'm an artist and all that. But he goes, brother, I need to talk to you. And I knew what that meant. And I was going, you know what? There's something else going on. I'm not a therapist or anything like that, but I got my life's experiences. And, you know, I think I have, you know, a few things to offer somebody. And I have a vocabulary of a certain level of understanding that I can, you know, communicate with somebody, you know, even if it's then leading them to someone else. But, you know, so often we're just moving through this and we're, we're winging it. We're winging it. And, you know, we don't want to wing it.

Rob Lee: I want to comment on that real quick before I move to this next question. Um, definitely, you know, this, this notion of sort of supporting like who's going to come up, right. And, you know, I, since we last talked, I've been able to delve into the education sphere around like podcasting and around like content and creativity. And, um, currently I'm an educator at the, um, at the Baltimore school for the arts, and that's been really cool. And, um, and my partner, she was like, Oh, I'm going to start calling you Mr. Lee. And I was like, look. And as soon as they did, I was like, damn, she's right. I am a teacher. And ultimately seeing like someone who looks like them, that's from sort of their same or similar or relatable sort of upbringing. and being able to, as you touched on, having a having lived experience, having a vocabulary and, you know, pretty much knowing this thing, but also presenting it in a way like, no, you should be able to do this. You can do this. This is simple. And, you know, it was definitely something to learn and something to do and something to grow in. And yeah, absolutely. When, you know, that came about, I was overextended, very overextended, but I saw sort of the value in You know, and everything is almost a bit for me, but it's like, learn from my mistakes. I've made all of them in this area. So here, this can be a bit easier for you. And it's very accessible. It's a very low barrier to entry. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do this or that your creativity doesn't matter or what have you. And those moments when you see what you're saying is getting through. That's so fulfilling. That is so fulfilling.

Terrell Tilford: No doubt, no doubt. If someone, if you're that swayed for someone to tell you that you can't do something and you don't believe that you can do it, you won't do it. You know? And I'm here to, and I challenge artists and other people with that. I go, is it going to stop you if someone tells you no? Is it going to stop you from actually doing it? No? Wonderful. Great. Even if you're submitting to us and we can't get back to you whenever because there's a lot going on, or if I tell an artist, like, hey, I don't really feel like your work is the right tone for what we're showing right now, or what we plan on, or we have too much of this or something. I hope you won't be discouraged by it. I want you to be fired up by it. Be like, you know what? Fuck that. I'm gonna go somewhere else. I'm gonna put it up myself. I'm gonna do, you know, whatever. But it's like, no, you know, if you've got something for yourself and you take ownership of it, man, you know, Spire away with it for real.

Rob Lee: That is that is my energy. That is my energy. It's like, look, tell me now. I remember talking to a funder about this project I wanted to do and and they were kind of making it seem like they had more say. And I was like, look, I can do this without you. This is a courtesy, if anything. And you're like, oh, I was like, absolutely. So I want to get this take on you. And this is a little weightier, I think, of a of a question, but So I was sharing with you earlier about the documentary, I think before we got started, the documentary around like sort of Black art, right? So I'm wanting to get your take on sort of the current state of Black art and conversations around Black artistic expression. What have you observed, just from your viewpoint over the last five years, so that's inclusive of pre-pandemic, pandemic, and this stage of pandemic, because I always say there's a pandemic going until someone tells me there's not, and that includes this trajectory of people talking more about art from Black artists or since, you know, George Floyd and all of that sort of like arc of time. So I think that five year period is a nice chunk. So I just want to get sort of your take around the discourse and around like how it's discussed, I suppose.

Terrell Tilford: Tricky question. Now, I've been having this conversation often with people as well. I think, one, I think Figurative artists in particular have to be a little bit more mindful of the work that they're creating. I think that… I feel like there's a sense of… I could be way off on this. I just feel like there's a sense of passive image-making. I feel like some people have gotten very lazy with… painting. And I think that they're looking for the quick route to just creating and selling right away and trying to cash in on, you know, what had been a major uptick in Black figurative work. And I see that tide has been shifting, you know, over the past year and a half, close to two years now. And I've spoken to several curators and gallerists about this. The George Floyd and Black Lives Matter impact brought a heightened sense of awareness to Black figurative painters. And let's just be honest about it. Every white collector, for whatever their various reasons, to collect or acquire this Black figurative work you know, whether it was to feel a sense of supporting or taking advantage of a moment or dealing with their own white tears, you know, regarding some of it at the same time. And, you know, I want to be respectful of every version of that in saying so. But everyone has sort of collected the majority. It's like you feel a sense of, oh, we did that from a lot of people. And so what it has done now, it's made it a little bit more of a challenge for some of those artists whose practice isn't as sharp as others. So it's making the distinction a lot broader between, you know, really good, imaginative, thought-provoking new work, and just creating something that's on the hamster wheel. And so I think what it's now doing, it's shifting a bit of the focus to more, you know, expressionistic work, abstract works, textiles, you know, people are finding new forms and new ways of, you know, creating specifically figurative work. But then there's, you know, these other medium that That collectors are starting to get a little bit more savvy about as well. And while these forms have existed forever. I think that there's just a level of. a different level of sophistication or a different level of mindfulness that people are looking at now because, you know, they've collected a lot of figurative works, black, white people, everybody. And so, you know, and I have people that say, yeah, I'm looking around and I got all these eyes staring at me, I got all this energy of all these, you know, souls or whatever, and I need something to, you know, so I just think that I lost my train of thought of what originally, what was the original question?

Rob Lee: I mean, you were over there cooking though. Um, just, just, just sort of your, your thoughts on the, the state of like black.

Terrell Tilford: I just, I just, yeah, I just think that, you know, we, we owe it to ourselves to really continue to evaluate the work that we're doing. And also I think that we have to be, open or more open to constructive criticism. There was a time, whether it was Spiral or other groups, and I'm sure there are collectives out there now, but I think we have to let down some of our ego and not go on social media and want to blast somebody just because they didn't love their work. But I think that there needs to be a window or a space in which we can really grapple with you know, material and ideas and thoughts, and have a little bit of a challenge within their, of trusted, you know, folks within your tribe, you know, to be able to talk about the work. And I don't, I don't know, I feel like there's, I don't, I don't know if there's a lot of space for that. Right now, I feel like a lot of artists are, just let me do my thing. And, you know, and You got to let them do their thing.

Rob Lee: Thank you. That is we're here. We're here. So thank you for that.

Terrell Tilford: My thing always at the end of the day, man, is look, I want I want to see everybody win. So when I say things, you know, and this isn't a disclaimer, you know, but when I say things to. artists or I go into their studios and I'm challenging thought or bringing up something is really because I want their highest good. I'm not creating the work, but I see so much work that it creates a better context for me to even discuss work. You know, so when I do comment on someone's portfolio or something like that, it's not to be like, you know, it's like, no, man, go back and do the homework, go back and do the work, like really wrestle with this shit, because I want you to be great for yourself. Now, it ain't got nothing to do with us. I want you to just get in there and do this thing. So that way, at the end of the day, you can look back on your body of work or what you've done or what you've achieved, what you've left as legacy, whatever the benchmarks, ideas and thoughts are for you, but that you feel good about it for yourself, first and foremost, before letting someone else determine a certain value of purpose within your work. But if you're doing everything that you can, if you're working that hard if you're wrestling and you're studying and you're, you know, taking the steps, you know, Tommy Mitchell, Baltimore-based artist. It's easy to talk about Tommy because Tommy is working every single day. And with each body of work from over the past five or six years that I've worked with Tommy, every body of work supersedes the previous. And I always think there's no way in hell he can top what he did previously. And I'm telling you, there are ways in which I can't think that he can top his previous body of work. And he does it every single time. And it's because whether he's traveling or whatever. Tommy's got a small canvas with him, whatever he can pack in a bag somewhere. He's in his hotel room. He's doing two things every single day. He's shooting buckets on a basketball court in any city, anywhere in the world, and he's drawing every single day. And to me, He's already really good, but this is what's ultimately going to make him a great artist, because he has a discipline in a way. And then Tommy and I will talk. We talk about themes, ideas, bodies of work, this and that. And then he'll take some things, and even if I'm going to say, ah, I think you could do without this. He'll go, all right, well, let me try something else. But I just love that the rapport that we have is really one of love. and one that we trust one another. With several artists, I can go in and just say, hey, man, I think you should stop right there. And it's the one. And we'll hammer it out. I got this other artist I work with. He goes, you're the Gil Evans to my Miles Davis. I said, all right, well, I got to be the white one, but that's OK. But we laugh about it. But when you think about two artists and their different discipline from the different points of view, the composer, the painter, that sort of thing, you go, you know what? What I am working toward is each artist's highest vibration for themselves. That frequency that is so elevated that they radiate through their paintings. That's what I want for all of them, seriously.

Rob Lee: Like I said, you were cooking. I appreciate that and thank you. I relate to it from this vantage point a lot when I'm very aware and respectful of this is a lot of times the first time someone has actually asked someone about their work, had them on to talk about their work. I don't want someone looking like an ass on here. So I try to go out of my way to like, are you good with this? Do you? Can I send this to you to listen to beforehand? Because I'm coming from it from this standpoint and, you know, really just trying to put them in their best spot to to thrive and do really well in it and really show themselves in their best light. And that that's really what the focus is. And, you know, That's that's that's really what it is. And I find that at times some folks aren't really, you know, they they like certain elements of the lifestyle, perhaps, but not actually doing the thing. And when I talk to people, as I was talking about earlier, being an educator, I always have some recording device with me. I always have my thing with me because it's like I am a podcaster, not a marketing person. I'm not someone that just does this. This is what I do. And, you know, check the credentials. That's that's sort of the the vibe. And, you know, when I see people, I see someone pull out a sketch pad. They have a few minutes. I was like, all right, I rock with what you're doing. You're really into this. And, you know, that's that's that's the thing for me. Um, so I got, um, I got some rapid fire questions and then like one sort of like final question I'm going to say for after the rapid fire. So if you will indulge me, we can go into them.

Terrell Tilford: Let's go. What's up?

Rob Lee: All right. So this is the first one. It might be a little bit longer than Rapid Fire, but I at least want to throw it out. So we have this sort of ever-changing landscape in arts, media, culture, all of that stuff as to how we're looking at things, how we're discussing things, and what's at the forefront. How do you stay adaptable and innovative amidst these changes? And I'll just chime in, giving you a time to kind of process and think through it. I find that it's always, we're always returning to things that existed. So I find myself going back to old audio books and just listening to like, oh, this is the history around this. the same sort of style this person was working and their approach to their creative practice. This has been, we've seen this before. We've done this before and we're doing a sort of different version of it, but the framework is very similar. So I have that as a sort of relatable point when I'm talking to someone, I suppose. So being able to dive back into like old texts during the research that you touched on a moment ago, I think that helps me because I think we always are encountering just different shades of familiar things. So for you, how do you stay like kind of like in the know, adaptable and innovative? How do you stay kind of like up to up to snuff?

Terrell Tilford: You know, I'll be honest, I'm not convinced that I am. I'm just just like, for real, I just you know, and I tell this even of like my associates and things that, you know, come and do things. I said, listen, I have a way of doing things that I am thoroughly convinced is not the smartest way to do it. So I say, I'm going to show you how to do something. I'm going to lead you somewhere. And then one or two times, but then take ownership of it for yourself. Like really find the version and then help. Teach me. And so even with one of my associates that came to Miami with this, we were installing, and I kind of overshot dimensions a little bit to include two other paintings. So I asked Dylan, I said, Dylan, what do you think? And she started doing this, and moving things around, and what if we do this over here? And I was like, you know what? I said, bet. Let's go with that. I don't have, we all have some ego. I don't have that much ego that I have to put my name on everything. I just want it to be the best version that it can be. So I even told Dylan, I said, you just earned your stripes on this one. You're now a co-curator or whatever. She was like, what? I was like, it's that simple. And I said, I appreciate, because I asked her why. the whys and everything. She came with it from there. So when I look at the broader thing, man, I'm a lot more analog than these digital cats. You know, you know, I go out and see other people's stuff. And my buddy, you know, Rick Garcon from Residency Art Gallery, he has a wonderful program that I love, you know, amplifying every chance I get. Some other wonderful people out there doing some great things. And You know, I'm constantly trying to answer that question myself, like, how can I be better? How can we be better? You know, there's some other things that I'm sort of working on that are much more they bring more value to band devices than me just sitting here in the gallery. So by me being out in these streets, if you will, seeing people, spending time with people, having these type of conversations and more, that's really where my learning That that's really where I'm getting my education these days is listening to other people going out in other places and experiencing other stuff. And, you know, you see enough stuff, you see enough, you begin to form new ideas about things. And that's my experiential version is how, you know, that's working for me. Thank you.

Rob Lee: Oh, it's good. It's really good. Where, and usually it's when, but I want to ask it as where, where do you feel most inspired?

Terrell Tilford: Two places. Probably in meditation. And then, I sit a lot of time just sitting and thinking. Just a lot. At night, I'll get in the bed, and I'll just sit there for three or four hours, just virtually no light on, maybe just from the street outside or something like that. I may have some high-frequency stuff playing, or now Andre 3000, or something like that. And just allowing the wavelengths of things just to take me places, because, you know, I really see a lot before it happens. I just do. I think we talked about this previously. But my visionary thing is really strong. And so I see it in front of me. And then I go, OK, well, now what's the pathway to get there? And the other part is when work comes in, And, you know, I'm curating and putting the show together. And then I'll go home that night and I'll dream about it. And then it sometimes recalibrates, you know, or reconfigures, you know, the show or something. Or it might be that one painting that's just stubborn and it's just, you know, whatever. And then just something will reveal itself in a way, you know, and this has been happening to me for, consciously, probably 10 or 12, no, about 15 years. Yeah, so like, like, I try not to force anything. It's like, you know, I like to I like to let it reside. And then I like to let creativity talk to itself. And then I kind of like stand back and it's like, And I think that's what those really private moments are. It's like me working at listening to. Everything, everywhere.

Rob Lee: So this is this is this is the last rapid fire one before we go into this this last real question, which is more of a wrap up question. So we have different things that I think some people have like uniforms, right? They always have a thing. Like I was interviewing a dude recently and he's he's a comic artist and He was like, my aesthetic is just round glasses and Tom Waits hats at this point. And he was like, that's all I own. I was like, that's amazing. And he draws himself to look like that. So it's literally his avatar. Is there an item from your clothing or from your accessories that you're like, no, this is absolutely my thing?

Terrell Tilford: All the time. You will probably see this scarf in particular in almost every photo that I shoot. But my team gives me a hard, they joke with it, but because I call it my Linus blanket, but I put on right beforehand and then I've gone from hot to cold back and forth. But I literally have a scarf, a neckerchief, a bandana, something on every single day.

Rob Lee: or whatever and it's it's it's my comfort it's my comfort piece it's it if anybody were to say what's that singular piece of clothing or something all the time it's gonna be a scarf that's that's a great answer i've been trying to do it i try to do the neck the neckerchief thing or i have like you know just something super pretentious and i'm like this is gonna be my fit this is gonna be my aesthetic and i just don't commit to it i just forget it i'll have it in my pocket and just never put it on

Terrell Tilford: Yeah, the sister I'm seeing now, she keeps getting on me. She's like, babe, I want to see your collarbone. She's like, your collarbone is like my favorite part of your body and all that. Stop wearing these things around your neck. I'm like, it's my thing. That's why she got me wearing sneakers now and stuff. I was wearing boots forever. She, you know, babe, you got to get you some white sneakers. I was like, yo, OK, fine. Let's do sneakers now. So I'm open to trying some things.

Rob Lee: So this is sort of the last real thing, and I wanted to save this one to go into it now. You know, pretty much what's on the forefront, what's what's coming soon? I see, you know, as you touched on a little bit earlier, Geffen Playhouse, that the initiative you've talked about a little bit, I think, and maybe on it on LinkedIn, I think I see in the bios, a TED talk maybe on the horizon. So talk a bit about sort of what's next for you, whether it be acting, creative pursuit, band devices, you know, sort of what have you.

Terrell Tilford: Um, I'm writing a book right now, which I've been working on for about 14 years. Um, so I hope I, I. Expect to have the 1st version of it completed by October. We have this initiative called In the Paint with the Lakers. So, you know, we've gone through the selection process, this and that. We found the artists. We've chosen the grantees. We've chosen the exhibitors. The Lakers literally tomorrow are handing over their final list of the nine or ten works that they're purchasing, some by players, some by the organization. Then we got to wait to hear from their sponsors. I'm in the final quarter of as a creative director for Geffen Playhouse and an art initiative they have over there called Art Lives Here. And I was told that my participation this year brought an 800% increase in the past two years. So that was really humbling. So I expect to be invited back for that, but we'll see. And really, man, what I'd like for the gallery for Band of Vices is to focus less on exhibitions in the space and to do more things outside of it in other fairs, other demographics, because there's a lot of value now. We've sort of have like a cornerstone, like a benchmark here of a good understanding and it's important now for us to get out and get our digital footprint out there and in a visceral way in front of people and to really communicate like this a little bit more because that has the most value to it. I think for us now. And so my goal is for us to really explore that more. And then just independently, while still using the name, I'm in contact with about three other galleries right now and exhibiting partners, New York, Dallas, and Baltimore, about curating in those spaces for next year. And that I'm really excited about as well. The work that I've done here in the gallery, I'm highly proud of. However, I'm ready for someone else to come in and do more of that now. I don't need to curate every show. I don't need to have my name on all of whatever. I do it out of necessity. But it will bring more excitement for me to have other creatives coming in. excuse me, to have other creatives come in and really activate the space in ways that are much more imaginative, much more creative, and probably a little bit more at the forefront. The work that I've done, like I said, brother, I have no ego. You do what you know, you do what you understand. But until someone tells you differently, you just keep doing that thing. But that's also why it's been helpful for me to get out into other places and spaces as well, because then I see things that I go, I absolutely want to do some version of that, or I love what they did there. There's no way in hell I can compete with that there, but I just love it. Because I sort of am where I am in this space of what I've been doing for the time that I've been doing, it's just been really, really important for me to really let other people not shine, but just to acknowledge them. And to be like, man, I really love what you're doing. I really believe in you and hey, if it just, you know, let's work on this thing right here, tweak this thing, that whole thing, you know, other things with other people or whatever. Because again, man, I just want to see people like thrive, you know, and I want people to be like, there was that I had somebody behind me. There was somebody that had my front and my back. There was somebody that, you know, if I posted something that sounded weird, they may call me and say, Hey, man, take that down. But what's going on? You know, checking in, you know, like, like in real ways, because I think that's just something that we just sort of take for granted. And we just also I've just, we never know what's going on with other people. And I think from that mental health standpoint, it's really important to check in with people and see where they're at. Because you may touch on something that may either help ignite or shift something in their work. But more importantly, if it heals something in their heart. And that's, you know, that's ultimately what, you know, I want for all of us. I want us to have healed hearts.

Rob Lee: That absolutely comes through. And, you know, I always go back and think about certain moments in this sort of podcast journey. And I still feel so pretentious saying it, but it is what it is. I remember when we did the first interview and I kept, you know, sort of the confidence thing and just really trying to find that place. And it's always a certain degree of that in doing this. But I remember one of the things that you got over to me, you said to me, like, you know, stop saying try. It's like you're doing it, brother. And I was just and I always reference that because I was like, I'm just, you know, doing doing this and I know my lane and I'm good and what I'm what I'm doing. But having someone with that sort of acknowledgment, someone that's in that level and having that that name and that background and all of that stuff, it's just it's rewarding. And it also feels like really sort of empowering. So it's like, yeah, I've carried that with me. Yeah.

Terrell Tilford: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I heard you say it right before you said this, too. I heard it. And I heard whenever I hear myself, I try and back it up. And I always work towards backing it up and using something else. This sister and his brother came into the booth the other day in Miami and just engaging with them. And they were just excited and young and that whole thing. And we were talking. And I said, so what's next? Where are y'all going after this? She goes, Oh, I guess tomorrow, you know, we got to go to scope. I said, you get to go to scope. And she it went. And she was like, Oh, my God. She was like, Thank you. She goes, and it just, you know, those are the things for me. That little shift, that little tweak somewhere that just gets us all thinking a little bit differently somewhere, just from an energetic thing. And the fact that she then took ownership of it. And so she was like, oh, my God. And I was like, it's all good, sis, it's all good. I said, but you get to go. I said, enjoy it. I said, enjoy it. So that for me is like the ethos of, I really, I know I keep saying it, but it's really how I just carry all of this stuff and work toward all of it. It's just every day going, you know, what can I do to be more of a contributor? What more can I do to lend a voice, lend some support, tell somebody you love them? Hit somebody like, I love this piece. And if these aren't artists that I've worked with, you know, I'd be hitting people left and right all over the place like, yo, I love this work right here, or you graduated with this piece. It makes people feel good. And people are like, oh my god, I didn't even know you were like, you know, I mean, I don't know if you know Daisha Board Gallery out of Dallas. I just love her. And I met her last year in Miami. And as soon as I walked into Prism, she was like, oh my god, this and this and that. And she was like, I was like, you're Daisha Board, this and that. And I told her, I was like, I love the last three shows that you just did. And I'm telling her about Platt. And she's like, I can't believe you know everything about my gallery. And I said, I said, I may not have had a chance to share it yet. I said, but I love what you're doing. I love what you stand for. I love who you're working on behalf of, this and that. I love these particular artists in here. And I'm excited to see this artist's work. And she was just so enamored with it. And I tell her like I tell everyone else, just pay it forward.

Rob Lee: That's, I think that's, I think that's where we close. I mean, you wrapped it like right there. I like that. Um, and, and, and thank you for, for all of this. Um, this has been great to reconnect in and do this pod. And, um, you know, again, thanking you. And I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners, website, social media, all of that good stuff. So they can find out, you know, sort of that shameless plug portion, the floor is yours.

Terrell Tilford: Oh, no, no, no, no. We, we, we will make sure that happens. No doubt. Yeah. In fact, I'm going to make sure that they are aware of the first one as well so that maybe they got some context and maybe I'll go back and learn something new as well.

Rob Lee: And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Terrell Toford for coming on to the podcast. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.