Art Uncovered: Tk Mills and NYC's Creative Community through UP Magazine
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Speaker 1
Only a couple months down. I think I can.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee, and I am excited to welcome my next guest, the editor in chief of Up magazine. They're an art journalist based in NYC who has a passion for travel, art and literature, and who has written for several art publications, including Sold Global Street Art in Art Fuze Up Magazine.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
His current project is an NYC based publication that focuses on street art, graffiti and creative urban culture. Please welcome T.K. Mills. Welcome to the podcast.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Thank you for coming on and in making the time. And I'm so glad we're able to chat a little bit. You know, sometimes that opportunity to chat before the actual on page interview, those are missed. And it kind of gives a little bit better, a richer feeling for the conversation.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Oh, totally. Because, you know, it's like a business talk, too. You know, there's always like the preamble before you actually get into things. You got to have to, you know, to chat.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's like it's like the appetizer, you know? Yeah.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
For me, meal.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Appetizer is good, though. Sometimes those appetizers are not the best.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Sometimes it looks good. And you like my appetizer and.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Like, here's, like, some warm notes with a zest of lime and NASCAR food and want that. So, you know, starting off like I like to do sort of the the origin story. Some people have the the villain origin story. I'd like to get to the creative origin story. So, you know, for you, what is your origin story as it relates to creativity?
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
You know, you have the writing background. You know, you're covering like art, street art, things of that nature. So if you will, could you share a bit of that?
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, sure. It's funny because my, my origin story, I like to think it's a good story, but it's sort of atypical in that I wasn't really a creative person. Like I wasn't a creative kid, didn't draw. I like to read, but I didn't really, you know, I didn't write, I didn't really I played guitar, but I was like, you know, one of those people that like, I learned a couple of chords and, you know, it took effort to, like, really get into it.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I kind of put to the side, so I wasn't too creative really growing up, but I kind of had found, you know, something I had gotten into in college was like, I had a politics aside, political science and international affairs in my undergrad. And I really liked because I really liked traveling and I really liked learning and learning about people.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So that was kind of where my interests were. And then in between undergrad and grad school, I went to Thailand and I got a job teaching English. And after my contract ended, I spent like six months like background. So I backpacking around Southeast Asia, which was a lot of fun. And then I moved back to New York City, you know, for grad school.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I got my degree in transnational security and originally my sort of life plan was I was thinking of going to work for the State Department, you know, because I thought diplomacy was what the world needed. And I felt that I could help and, you know, whatever. And I kind of got trashed circa 2016 with that presidential election.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And it was a lot of things. It wasn't just Trump, though, that was a major part of it. It was sort of like I had spent, you know, at this point like six, seven years studying something and you had like the beginning of where Twitter sort of just became like the public discourse and, you know, the shouting match.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I, I don't know, I came to see it as a sort of a cesspool and really toxic. And I kind of had this moment where I was like, this isn't actually what I want to do anymore. Plus, Trump also slashed the funding for the State Department. So I stopped hiring. Whereas I was graduating. But so I, I had this moment in the beginning of 2017, right as the transition was happening from Obama to Trump, where Obama had opened up travel to Cuba and Cuba is a place I've always admired.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I've always wanted to go. One of my favorite writers is Hemingway, who has a lot of work kind of based around Cuba. So I'm like, I got to go. It's the only time I'm going to get a chance. I'm going to go. So I went and I got I was down there for like, you know, five, six weeks just kind of backpacking around.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And it wasn't really like I had a plan or anything. I just knew I wanted to go. And I had some time and I had some money saved up for my research job. So I was like, I'm going to go to Cuba and kind of, you know, see what happens. And while I was down there, I was kind of spent a lot of time soul searching, like, you know, if I'm not going to do this thing that I've now spent, you know, years of my life and a stupid amount of money on, what am I going to do?
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, it's funny, Hemingway I had visited, there's like a bar out there. I think the Florida I'm might be misremembering that, but it's like a bar he apparently frequented and you know, they got a bunch of tourist stuff for it. But I went there. I was like, you know, I always liked the idea of being a writer, but I had never really written anything outside an academic context.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so I was like, Well, I'm here. I'm going to write something. And, you know, if I can get it published to all pursue being a writer. And so I kind of I ended up writing a couple stories. But the one that's sort of important for the context of OP is I wrote this one. There's this one tag I saw all around Havana.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It was two plus two equals five, which I recognize as a reference to George Orwell's 1984. You know, And I kept seeing it and like, really just like struck me in a way that I hadn't been hit by a piece before. And I was like, I got it. I got another story behind this. And so that was kind of the thing.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so I spent a week or two just trying to track this guy down. I literally had a map of the city and I was like marking where I found his different tags. And I was like asking people and, you know, people weren't really give me a lot of info. But I it was funny, actually, right before I was about to give up this one night, I was out and they have a lot of open art studios, which is basically like, you know, they have just artists have a studio and anyone can come in.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so I wander into this art studio and, you know, and there I see the tag. I'm like, Oh my God. So I go up to one of the artists. I'm like, Do you know who does that? And I'm like, Oh, that's a like, I guess I would say his name is Fabian. He's like, He's right over there.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I was like, Oh shit. Okay. So I'm, you know, I ran to the guy and I had actually been out drinking, so I was like a little drunk. And I was like, I told you, and this guy's, give me a look like, okay. But I ended up being cool. He was really nice guy. I sat down with him.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
He, like, offered me a bite of his tuna sandwich. And it's funny because I speak, you know, um, poquito and without much English. So we kind of did it like half English, half Spanish. And, you know, my girlfriend at the time was Argentina, so she, when I got back, helped me translate a lot of it. But yeah, so I end up interviewing him, put the story together, and then, you know, that I just submitted it to every place I could end up getting published in this London Street art blog and like, it was like, like, went viral on their site, and I was like, Oh, wow.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
That's like, the first thing I've ever had published. And, you know, people really liked it. I was like, super cool. And it was like a huge confidence boost for me. And then, you know, with that though, it was funny cause I lived in Bushwick at the time, which is sort of Brooklyn's street art neighborhood. And, you know, I always like appreciated street art and graffiti, but I'd kind of been like visual white noise, like, you know, you look at a beat, don't really see it.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And after that, I started to really see it and I was like, you know, maybe I can kind of do a little bit of art journalism. And so from there I started, you know, like just going to art shows and starting to get into the scene. And then I kept freelancing for a couple of years and then eventually started up.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so that's kind of the the, you know, the origin story in a nutshell. But yeah, so it was it was a fun time and it was like one of those things that, you know, really helped propel me both in a creative sense as well as in the sort of sorry, my dog is like going crazy down the hall.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so, yeah, so it was just like, you hear the barking, It's maddening. Yeah. So, so that was kind of it. So that's kind of how I got into writing as well as getting into art sort of at the same time. And so from there, you know, I've made a lot of connections. Yeah, I've been in that was like 2017.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So you know, that time. So all sort of a blur, but sort of been around it for like six, seven years now. Yeah, has been great.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Thank you. That you know, the sea is the thing, It's like, it's like you're playing darts and you just hit different parts of the board. That's what you did with my questions, right? You knocked out like three or four of those questions. Shout out to you. But I did have this this, this other one that that relates. So in sort of taking taking that that, that that time.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Right. And kind of visiting a different place change of scenery and coming back to sort of new eyes being in Cuba coming back and and seeing, you know, this sort of white noise is like, oh no, no, no. There's there's something there. Yeah, I had that. I had that recently in I like New Orleans, right? I like to go down there.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I love New Orleans. I go down for my birthday usually and and been down in a couple of years, you know, pandemic and all. I was there. I don't know about the South on the pandemic. I don't know about that. And going down there, I'm seeing things in a very different way through the sort of cultural and arts non touristy lens.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And I usually don't look at things touristy, but from that standpoint I think we relate in that way of you go to a place you see things from, from sort of from a different perspective and then when you're kind of re dipped and re immersed in it, that's around you, you see things in a much different way. Do you and with your love of light traveling, is that a piece of it that you kind of insert regularly to kind of have these sort of respites and, you know, travel and kind of like seeing and appreciating art, whether it be street art or otherwise, in a different way?
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Oh, totally. That is actually become a big part of my travel. I, I used to travel a lot more, you know, a little something happened a year or two ago that kind of kept me closer to home. But no, yeah, I now whenever I go to a city, I always try and find like their neighborhood and I find in almost every major city there is like a neighborhood or a block that's like kind of like where the murals are at.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So I love to go and check it out and try and, you know, say hello to local artists. But yeah, well, even before getting industry out, you know, one of the things I used to do when I would travel is, you know, again, being a reader, I would always try and read books either set or written by authors from the place I was traveling to.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And that was always kind of like a fun way of kind of getting a certain lens to it. But yeah, with street art in particular, you know what's interesting is it really is something super global and so it's cool because it's even like some artists I've met that now I know in other cities and like I can come through and it's like, Oh, you know, I got a couch to crash on or whatever.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Oh yeah.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
There is actually, it didn't happen this year, but there had been an annual art festival down in Mexico, down in Carmel, and almost kind of like a smaller, smaller town. It's it's in between Cancun and Tulum. So people tend to just breeze by it. But it's really beautiful. And they got a great story. But yeah, it's funny because they had this international art festival and, you know, they had a lot of artists from like the UK, a lot from Europe, some from South America, the artist from all over Mexico and you know, it's fun because then you like, meet them and then like, yeah, like you'll be traveling somewhere and you're like, Oh, you know,
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
are you around? Or, Oh, hey, could you put me in the direction of some people? I should talk to? And it's really cool because it is a very global community. And so I feel like even though I kind of shifted from travel being my first loved sort of street art, being my first love, it's still very interconnected.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I dig that. And I've had two instances like recently to do a little travel, like when I'm doing these interviews, you know, I'm Baltimore based, but, you know, I've been doing a series of interviews because I think places are important. So I'll go up there, I'll commute up there to Philly, do a couple of interviews, come back down day trip.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And I remember the first time I went up there for this sort of intentional series of interviews. I saw the work of a sort of a like you can't recognize their they hide their identity. So this sort of anonymous contingent of artists that do the street art they call my car. So racism spelled backwards. Oh, and I get off the train and I'm walking.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And I was like, this mid-sized car work. And I just sent that. And I was like, I'm in your city. I see your work. And it was like a really cool, cool moment. Or even when I was a year ago, you know, actually it was last June, so a couple of months for now. But I was in Nashville and I was just going to a coffee shop because I'm always looking for pretentious coffee and it's next to sort of this, this, this, this art space.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I think it was a gallery. I wasn't quite sure because it was a little obscured. But I saw one of the images there and it was from an artist that I interviewed that's a DC based, and I recognized their work immediately and.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
That's always a cool moment. Yeah.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So being able to sort of travel in, I haven't done internationally, but you definitely have sold me in Cuba because I want to go. I mean, I'd like a million other hold that, you know, let's just make it like this is make it happen.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, it's I don't know what the rules are for Americans going to Cuba anymore because, again, certain president, I think, kind of got screwed. But honestly, it's one of the most beautiful places I've been. Beautiful people, beautiful art, really interesting history, because actually, I think whenever I traveled, I would I was really like I was like a history buff.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So I got really into like, yeah, that's a whole tangent. But yeah, it's, it's definitely worth a visit.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
This is, this is the first and maybe first of the sort of punish questions. So what's up with up? Can you tell us a bit about magazine's mission? And, you know, we kind of started off a little bit and talking about like, you know, how it was founded and all that, but talk a bit about the mission and really what you hope your publication does within the whole larger conversation around art, specifically street art.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. So I feel like, you know, it's funny, I can kind of build on the origin story to kind of contextualize that because again, the up origin story and mine are sort of related, but also their own thing. So after I kind of had that Cuba trip, I spent a couple of years freelancing and actually, you know, one of my other favorite writers is Hunter Thompson, who people know him for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But one of his other big books is Hell's Angels. And the whole thing is he basically got in with the Hells Angels and rode with them for a year, learned about them, wrote about the culture, and kind of was able to present sort of an insider outsider perspective on it. It's a great book. It's one of my favorites.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so with street art, that was originally my mentality is I'm like, All right, I'll get in and I'll kind of hang out with some artists for a year and write a book about it. And, you know, five years later I'm still in. But so I was freelancing for a couple of years, you know, like starting in 2017 and 2018 and 2019.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, one of the problems I had freelancing amongst others, is that, you know, a lot of the stuff I wanted to write was not getting picked up by editors. A lot of the art magazines I was talking to, they were all more focused on sort of the gallery world. And I had more than one kind of like, don't bother street art.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
There's no future in it, you know, whatever. And I was like, Well, this is what's cool to me. And like, you know, you're paying me pennies if paying me at all. So this is what I want to do. But so, you know, I was kind of, you know, am I allowed to Kirsten's podcast, please? I was kind of bitching and moaning to a mentor of mine one day about all this, and he's like, Well, why don't you start your own magazine?
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I was like, I don't know, it sounds like a lot of work. And I was right. It has been a lot of work, but that was kind of where the idea kind of began. And so, you know, I kind of eventually came around on it. And at the time I reached out, the only other street art writer I knew, Victoria Benzine and I was thinking about START magazine.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Would you be interested? And she's like, Yeah, sure. And so then she brought in her friend Christina, and then Lani was the other fourth founding member who was our photographer. And so up initially with just the four of us. And so this was like late 2018. And so we were like kind of set. We would meet my apartment.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I lived on St Mark's at the time and we would meet my apartment like every day to sketch out the ideas for the magazine and put together a game plan. You know, we want we knew we want to do print because to me, print is what feels legit. And because there had been a different magazine that was sort of a rival publication to us for a little bit that was online only.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And it was kind of a way of being like, you know, we're going to step our game up. But yeah, so it's just the four of us. And we were literally me at my apartment every single day for like probably, you know, four or five months till we had the finished manuscript. And then we kind of hit the next big challenges was funding the magazine, which I hadn't considered at all.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But, you know, it got to the point they were like, All right, well, we need to pay for this. And so we had a bunch of meetings that all kind of blew up in my face. One was, you know, our original sort of my mentor friend. I thought he was going to be kind of our money guy. And he kind of backed out.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And then I met with some of my contacts from freelancing, see if they'd be interested in investing. And they all were like, We love it. We love the concept. We love. We're doing, you know, But you guys are untested, unproven, you know, we're not putting money behind this. And so I was kind of put in this pinch where I was like, Well, we've been working on this.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I need to make this happen. And so, you know, when I was younger, my parents had taken life insurance out for me and, you know, accrues value over time. And they told me when I turned 18, they were like, I'm 25, 30 now. I was 25 at this point in time, but I was 18. My parents were like, you know, like that life insurance money is yours, you should not touch.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It will be worth a lot of money when you're like 60, just leave it. But that was sort of the only, you know, capital I had access to. So I ended up cashing in my life insurance and it was like worth like $15,000. And then after taxes, it was worth like $11,000. Well, that was dumped it all into the magazine.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
That's how we printed the first issue. And yeah, we had the release party was June 19th, 2019, and it ended up being this huge hit. You know, like everyone in the community came out to support. We ended up selling out all the copies we printed and it really kind of just like was this jump shot of adrenaline. I was like, okay, like maybe we can actually do this.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so, yeah, you know, and in that kind of formation, getting back to kind of your question, you know, in those original sessions with the four of us, me bit Stan and Lonnie, you know, we had, we always ask ourselves like, well, what is this magazine like? What do we want to be? And, you know, we knew we wanted to focus on street art and graffiti, in part because of the fact that, you know, it was a big part of something we were all interested in and something that wasn't really being covered.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But we also knew we wanted to kind of focus not just on established artists, but artists that were sort of on the come up themselves. You know, again, there's endless puns about it. It's just part of our culture now. We we always run with it. But, but yeah, so, you know, we, we knew we want to focus on because there's like a lot of other art magazines like, you know, say juxtaposed that would cover street art.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But when they did, it was like Shepard Fairey or Banksy, you know, both incredibly talented artists, but they don't need the press, you know what I mean? So we wanted to make sure that we kind of focused on people who are still, you know, establishing themselves. We actually had written a manifesto at one point that was kind of diving into all this.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, after iterations of editing, we eventually came down to sort of our little tagline, which I, I don't have memorized, so I'm going to pull it up, please. But our mission is to provide the art community of nuanced, provocative and critical writing that navigates the questions of our generation. We pride ourselves on serving our readers high quality articles that investigate, inform and entertain like good art.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But magazine is made to make you think and make you feel. And so we do really stick true to that mission, though. And part of that too, is like we go, we tend to go, especially if our print, we go really in-depth with stories because, you know, we were a team of writers really more than anything. We weren't necessarily artists.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
We were writers. We wanted this is our subject matter that we want to write about and so know we wanted to kind of take it seriously and really build out on it. But yeah, I mean, over time, you know, we stayed true to that kind of core sentiment, but we've really grown in sort of the different ways that that manifests.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
We now have a website, Match.com, we have a yearly print. We had started originally, we wanted to do quarterly, and then the pandemic kind of, you know, pushed that back, back. So now we've shifted strategy, you know, doing at least once a year. And this year we're aiming to get two print issues out. But we also do a lot of events.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
We are soon to launch sort of the business subbrands of creative consulting. You know, it's just sort of a way to sort of finance the magazine because as it turns out, print magazine is very expensive. But yeah, we've really grown, but we do try and stay true to sort of that community ethos, you know, staying tapped into obviously what's happening here in New York.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But we've really tried to grow to other cities, too. We've got some people out in L.A., we've got some people over in London, we've got a handful of people scattered around the globe and other places, not Baltimore, at least not yet, but, you know.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
A local podcaster here in front of you.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So I think there's a lot we can build on there. But yeah, so that's that's up up's mission. I hope that answered the question is a little rambly.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
No, no, it absolutely did And I and I think that there is sort of this, this sort of connective thing. And one of the things that that stuck out is, you know, having sort of this mission of, yeah, you know, there are people who do really great work, but they don't necessarily need the press and it needs need that.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
They need that other blog or that other article about them. But maybe touching on someone who's emerging or someone that's about to pop on the scene or what have you, you know, that's kind of what I do with the podcast. And when folks ask me like, How do you pick your guests? And I've really been on this wave recently of if it catches my attention, it's a reason it caught my attention.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And is that.
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TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, now I hear that totally.
00;22;43;06 - 00;23;10;24
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So, you know. Speaker one Like the so I remember I had an interview with a street artist here who is give me a very, very, very wild story about a, the legality of street art. So I hope to talk about that a little bit. Like in in covering street art in your publication in studio, kind of being in this weird area of maybe dark gray.
00;23;11;05 - 00;23;12;12
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;23;12;12 - 00;23;22;14
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So, so talk about that a little bit. Like what sort of considerations are made and just, you know, what are your thoughts around sort of the legality around it or the legality around it?
00;23;23;01 - 00;23;38;22
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. So I guess I'll start by kind of giving a little context. So a lot of people tend to use street art as sort of like the broad based term that every all the art that's in the streets, which a lot of people do. I mean, you know, it's one of those things that how you choose to define something will be part of it.
00;23;39;19 - 00;23;59;18
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But I do want to make a distinction that there's sort of a difference between street art and graffiti. And the way I like to compare it to people is, you know, they're they're like family, but they're like cousins. You know, they're related, but they're different. And with up, we cover both. We tend to be a little bit more street art heavy, but we do do some graft like the talk I was doing earlier today.
00;23;59;18 - 00;24;25;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It was a bunch guys. And you know, the distinction there is like street art tends to be a little bit more middle class, a little bit more polished, a little bit more domesticated versus graft is, you know, a lot more raw, a little bit more, you know, really from the streets and sort of that sense. And, you know, it's funny, too, because it's also I think with that, there's like different approaches.
00;24;25;17 - 00;24;49;25
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
You know, street art is a lot of focus on the visual art versus graffiti, you know, especially like tagging and bombing. It's almost more of a sport than an art necessarily. And I think a lot of people don't get that. But to the illegality, you know, street art kind of blurs that line because there's commission murals, you know, businesses that pay for stuff that is, you know, cities sometimes that have funding, that goes to pay for murals.
00;24;49;25 - 00;25;10;26
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
There's, you know, also wheat pasting, which is a form of street art. We're basically have glue. And, you know, you slap it up and that's illegal, but it's also illegal to with sort of like, you know, it's it's again, gray because you see, especially in New York, you know, you got those all those construction scaffolding it personal bills, all those ad companies are wheat pasta.
00;25;10;26 - 00;25;29;05
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And that's illegal, too. But it's not like they're getting fined, you know what I mean? And then there's sort of graft, which is like, you know, especially in the eyes of a lot of graffiti writers, they won't consider it graft unless it is legal. You know, we're like doing it outside the bounds of the law is the point in and of itself right?
00;25;29;05 - 00;25;46;20
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
To me, I have love for it all. I actually feel like, especially lately, I've been drawn almost more to the raft side of things. Just because I find it really interesting and a lot of people tend to write off Graff as like, Oh, it's just vandalism and it's like, you know, I'd be lying if saying a lot of it isn't vandalism, you know what I mean?
00;25;46;20 - 00;26;10;15
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But it has its, it has its place and it's like a lot of people don't realize there are sort of unwritten rules of it too, you know, like amongst graft writers, even like there's certain code of conduct, like, you know, you don't tag churches, you don't you don't go after people's homes. You know, you notice a lot of the growth is tends to be on like either abandoned buildings or like warehouses that it's like, you know, it's not like it was going to be anything otherwise.
00;26;11;19 - 00;26;32;18
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But as to sort of the legality of it, like, you know, we cover everything. I mean, as a journalistic publication, we had to sort of at times sort of skirt things just so we didn't get artists in trouble. And so one of the one of our sort of policies is, you know, unless the artist says otherwise, we tend to refer to them by their art name, which oftentimes is also their Instagram handle these days.
00;26;32;18 - 00;26;51;15
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But yeah, it's interesting because like there is that sort of graft or street art distinction, and I think that's, you know, as some people use the umbrella term urban art, which, you know, works, it's just like street art I think is like a little catchier, which is why everyone calls it street art. But, you know, there's levels to it.
00;26;51;15 - 00;27;03;09
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
You know, there's stickers. That's street art. It's also still illegal. And I actually do know a couple of people who unfortunately did get arrested for putting up stickers, which to me is like the silliest thing. But it is.
00;27;03;09 - 00;27;05;24
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
A cotton candy crime. What are we doing?
00;27;05;26 - 00;27;08;14
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I love that term. Cotton candy crime. I might actually.
00;27;08;21 - 00;27;09;06
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Please do.
00;27;09;13 - 00;27;33;15
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
That. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? And so, you know, in terms of our coverage, we kind of try and keep a mentality of like, you know, artists first. Like we'll kind of defer to them for certain preferences. You know, there's one artist I interviewed who was a craft writer, and they were super, super big on the anonymous thing because they happened to not only be doing illegal graft but also happened to be here legally.
00;27;33;22 - 00;27;53;07
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so sort of the interview for them, you know, I really made an effort to like sort of include as many vagaries to their identity as I could. And like even, you know, I had mentioned Fabian at first I was kind of has things when I first interviewed him, he wasn't really out with his name, but these days he's become like a superstar in Cuba.
00;27;53;07 - 00;28;10;29
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So, like, you know, he's had press written about and I feel like it's not as big a deal. But yeah, I think to the question of it, I think a lot of people like, well, it's illegal. I don't think the legality, you know, or at least of street art broadly shapes it. I think there are a lot of people don't realize that there are sort of rules.
00;28;10;29 - 00;28;30;16
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, there's also I mean, there's also a lot of internal conflicts that as well, you know, this craft writers who go over murals, you know, but I think a big sort of common thread between both street art and graffiti is respect. And what qualifies earning respect and how you show respect to your fellow artists.
00;28;30;27 - 00;28;55;04
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I dig that. Thank you. So let's see, I got two more real questions. One, One is this one. So how do you see sort of the because it's been a lot of talk about it and I'll put context to it before I really get to the question. There's been a lot of talk about sort of the digital component, and I find a lot of things are kind of best when they're analog.
00;28;55;04 - 00;28;56;29
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I mean, you have the use both.
00;28;57;10 - 00;28;58;22
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Around a print magazine and I get it.
00;28;59;11 - 00;29;32;00
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I still write down my questions sometimes in a notepad because I want to see what the thinking was underneath it versus just as polished, sort of refined. Oh, this is the final question. And I ran it through these filters and spellcheck did. I like to keep the errors in there. So how do you see sort of the internet in the intersection between technology, street art and like, how does that work and how is it impacting sort of like maybe street art being being covered, being presented, like talk about that sort of impact of augmented reality and technology when it comes to street art?
00;29;32;00 - 00;30;04;11
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. So like anything those layers to it, you know, there are some artists who like incorporate QR codes into their mural. There's actually some art, as I've seen that like hand-painted QR code, which to me it's just like technically super impressive and the like they'll link it to either some air or they'll link it to their website. And I've always kind of found that interesting, you know, and a lot of artists who do murals also do, you know, they have an iPad and they work on Procreate or Illustrator or whatever, and they use that as a way to, you know, do art when they're not painting in the streets.
00;30;04;11 - 00;30;23;19
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so I think technology generally has a huge benefit. I think excuse me, especially, you know, it's become sort of a big craze of late. And me as a writer of chats about there's a couple times I'm like, this makes me uncomfortable. But like anything yeah, it's but it's like but anything it's a tool and it's how you choose to use it.
00;30;23;29 - 00;30;52;22
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I think for creatives you can use it. I know artists sometimes that use what's the big one, not I'm blanking on the name of it, but one of the, the, the air generators and they'll use it to build references for their own work, you know, and they'll use it. I think I feel bad for certain digital artists where it's like sort of has devalued their art because it's like, Oh, you spent two days working on this and now this computer can generate in half a second.
00;30;53;02 - 00;31;12;10
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I think there are certain scary implications for the commercial aspect where a lot of artists who sort of, you know, did commissioned or worked off that now there is a cheaper alternative that's never going to, you know, and I think that kind of is scary. But again, it's like I don't think that that's the technology's fault itself.
00;31;12;10 - 00;31;37;06
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It's sort of the ways in which capitalism tends to work things and not always for the best. But I think that, yeah, like anything, it's a tool, you know, and it's how you choose to use it. You know, like my girlfriend, she started as someone who did a lot of her stuff in, you know, on her iPad. And then it kind of as she got more confident, she started doing murals and stuff.
00;31;37;06 - 00;31;55;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, she'll do a mock up reference and then paint it or you know what I mean? And so it's it's again, it's kind of how you choose to use it. And I've been to like certain technology, art shows where there's a lot of augmented work or VR, and I think it's cool. I think there's something to it.
00;31;55;17 - 00;32;09;18
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I do think the problem I have with Summit with it at times, sometimes people focus too much on that technology, that they don't focus on the art and then it's like, Well, this is incredible conceptually what you're doing. But you know, visually this is kind of you know what I mean?
00;32;09;27 - 00;32;26;17
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It it's one of those things like, you know, this is technically, technically sound has a lot of the things in it, but does it speak to me? Does it have something behind it? And some might say it's going to sound so corny, but I think it's accurate. What's the soul behind it like when you listen to music sometimes, right?
00;32;26;17 - 00;32;43;21
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, cause I think there's always this sort of conversation when you talk to people who are creative or appreciate creativity, even to make these sort of connections that often are missed. And I think, you know, as I remember, it was one year I was looking at and I was like, when was I listening to it on the pulse of like new releases?
00;32;43;21 - 00;33;05;05
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And it comes to music and things of that nature. It was like, it's probably 2010, 2011 and I don't want to be old man music, but, you know, it's kind of that thing is I'm 38, so it's one of those things where like, when did you know this sort of formula become a part of it? When did this sort of same pitch creation correction happened and why does it do the instrumental sound really good?
00;33;05;05 - 00;33;27;21
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
But they all sound alike and then you can see different apps, different little tools. We follow rules long enough. You can see the secret sauce or how they do all of this stuff. And it's like, I can hear something that sounds unpolished and quote unquote raw. It has that emotion to it. I was like, man, this hits versus something that, you know, is really well done, but it is it's almost disposable.
00;33;28;04 - 00;33;47;05
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. And I think that's exactly it. It's not always about the technical mastery. It's about the emotion behind it. And, you know, I've talked to artists about this who sometimes find themselves in sort of the existential crisis of like, I worked so hard on this and this computer can do it in 5 seconds, get but they can't do you, you know, and it's like, don't you shouldn't compare yourself to it.
00;33;47;05 - 00;34;02;05
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And again, I'm speaking I also have that existential crisis sometimes. I mean yeah as both in you, you and I are in kind of a similar age range or it's like we went from like, you know, you got your first home computer to now your computer is in your pocket at all times and you can't tap out of it no matter how hard you try.
00;34;02;09 - 00;34;22;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Right? But it's it's one of those things that I think it's like, again, it's it's a tool. And I always come back to that because I think that's kind of the best way to look at it, because it's like it's how you use it and how you choose to experiment with it, because there's also people who've done some really cool stuff.
00;34;22;17 - 00;35;00;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
You know, I there's one artist I know who they like basically had like sync up like drums, like little little drum pads. And then put different, like, colors associated with it and then played music. And that's like what created the painting. And I thought that was like such a cool way to do it, you know? And so you know, I think it's like, don't let I put your creativity first and make sure that, you know, it's something you're doing because even like it doesn't even know is about technology to even like when you're painting, you know, this is all artists, you know, unless you've got rich parents, it's like there's work you do for yourself
00;35;00;17 - 00;35;14;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
and there's work you got to do for the money, for the hustle. And, you know, the hustle stuff may not have as much soul, but it's still got a bit of you in it, you know what I mean? It's still in the DNA. And so just not losing sight of kind of your passions of that, I think is key.
00;35;14;13 - 00;35;19;00
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
That's well said. Super important. And I've been on both sides of it, so I definitely get it.
00;35;19;14 - 00;35;20;05
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. Yeah.
00;35;20;11 - 00;35;35;10
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So, so this is the last sort of real question before I get to those rapid fire ones. Okay. They speak to the importance of diversity and representation when it comes to like street art and in the graffiti world and how, you know, Up magazine approaches like these issues in this coverage.
00;35;35;26 - 00;35;53;06
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Oh yeah, totally. So I think it's interesting, you know, because obviously questions of diversity have kind of become a very prominent part of modern culture, which, you know, is for the best. I think with I guess there's kind of two ways to look at this, one sort of how the culture handles it and sort of how OP handles it.
00;35;53;06 - 00;36;17;06
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It's all of start the culture first. Sure. So it's funny, actually, Lonnae had done an article in our last issue about the history of graffiti, and something I thought was really interesting is, you know, oftentimes graffiti, it tends to be associated. More people are black and brown, which you know, obviously is sort of a general trait, but in its in its infancy, it wasn't about that.
00;36;17;06 - 00;36;40;24
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It was mostly it was about kids. I mean, like little 12, 13 year olds were the ones who started tagging and like really made it a big thing. And it wasn't really a factor because of the fact that you didn't know who wrote that name was just about the name, you didn't know who made it. And like I always thought that was like a really cool thing, that it was like there's total anonymity, you know, you just like you knew someone because you saw their name up in all the neighborhoods.
00;36;41;28 - 00;37;06;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I always thought that was sort of an interesting element and I could actually I'll shoot you our last issue at some point. I'll make you a copy. Good. Check it out. But yeah, I think how street art generally handles it, there are a lot of tensions. I think of race at times. I think in particular, one of the things that, you know, tends to go hand in hand with street art, unfortunately, is gentrification.
00;37;07;09 - 00;37;28;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, it's kind of that story and using, you know, my old neighborhood, Bushwick as an example, where, you know, there's a neighborhood that tends to be on the outer boroughs or something, you know, And because of that, it's a little bit more affordable. It tends to be a lot of, you know, working class families. And then, you know, the artists move in because they can't afford to live anywhere else.
00;37;28;13 - 00;37;49;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, they start making art because artists are cool. The neighborhood selling becomes trendy. You know, they start painting murals. You know, more businesses sort of see the opportunity on that. They capitalize on it, The rents go up, and then eventually, you know, those working class families get priced out. And then in due time, the artists themselves also get priced out, you know, and that's kind of what happened to Williamsburg.
00;37;49;17 - 00;38;15;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I mean, but I think on the flip side of that, too, it's it's always it's not always such clear cut narrative where it's like, you know, like one thing or the other of gentrification, because it's also I think it also tends to of, you know, you look at like quality of life things, right? Like I've been in neighborhoods that, you know, people are like, I love this mural.
00;38;15;13 - 00;38;36;03
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I'm like, I'm happy this is here. And like, you know, in Brooklyn, there are so many, like Brooklyn pride murals and people are like, I love that. You know what I mean? And it's like it adds character to a neighborhood, you know, and it adds like a certain flavor and distinction. But but yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's a tension point that I think a lot of people have.
00;38;36;03 - 00;39;02;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And it's not even just with sort of, you know, racial issues, too. A big thing is also, again, I mentioned at St John's Global, there's a there is a sort of territorial aspect with ending at times where there was a big thing a couple of years back. There's in Bushwick, there's the Bushwick collective, there are major sort of player or they have a lot of the walls in town and they curate this big event every year and you know, they've become sort of their own institution.
00;39;02;17 - 00;39;19;08
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, I give props to Joe and everyone behind it with it. But with that, as they got bigger, you know, in the beginning they always had local artists painting. And then once they got bigger, they had people flying in from London, they had people flying in from other cities. And people were kind of like, Well, what the hell, This is New York.
00;39;19;08 - 00;39;44;25
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
You're not going to give it to New York artists, you know? And so there's, you know, in any community and it is a big community and a particularly diverse community. There's always sort of faultlines. And I think for the most part, most artists are mature enough to talk things out and kind of get it. But, you know, there are these kind of issues that flare up from time to time, and there's a lot of examples I can think of, but I don't want to do a little too much on it.
00;39;45;20 - 00;40;04;16
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And then within up, you know, in terms of our coverage, we we try and kind of go for like a holistic perspective. Broadly speaking, you know, our coverage tends to be a mix of assignment and pitch and so assignment is like we're like, hey, this artist is, you know, super cool. We'll go to our writers like, who wants to take on the story?
00;40;04;25 - 00;40;20;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And then pitches sort of our writers will say like, Hey, this artist is someone I like or This is someone I think we should cover, Can I do this? And we're pretty open with that, you know, And even like with Up in itself as a team, like we've slowly grown a little bit more legitimate. We haven't quite gotten corporate.
00;40;20;13 - 00;40;42;17
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
As you can see, I'm still in my apartment. But, you know, we've had writers of every background. We've had photographers of different backgrounds, you know, and like in terms of both like race, in terms of economic background, in terms of, you know, life perspective. So I've always tried to kind of keep sort of a holistic perspective with it.
00;40;43;11 - 00;41;19;03
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Obviously, you know, I am a straight white man and, you know, there are times I've kind of caught in flack for that and I try and just own it like, you know, I, I am who I am and I'm not trying to push on anyone, any kind of thing. But like, yeah, it's it's also it's interesting because I feel like a lot of times, you know, again, it almost I think to me when people go after graffiti and they are almost like, oh, well, you know, it's a black art and it's like, you know, in a sense, yes, it does come a lot of times for marginalized communities, but it's also like that's sort of
00;41;19;03 - 00;41;41;11
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
oversimplifying a really complex form because it's like there are some incredibly talented Puerto Rican artists. There are you know, there are artists of like a thousand different backgrounds who have contributed to it. And I think, you know, broadly speaking, people and this is just, you know, the way the world is in general, people like simple narratives. And the world isn't simple.
00;41;41;11 - 00;42;04;28
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Life isn't simple from the perspective of, you know, treat people as you want to be treated and, you know, be open to new things and, you know, new experiences. And yeah, I find that that kind of perspective has brought us a wide range of talent of various backgrounds. And so, you know, in my mind it's like it's worked for us so far, so kind of sticking with it.
00;42;05;19 - 00;42;06;02
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But yeah.
00;42;06;10 - 00;42;28;11
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I think that and thank you. And I think that there is a sort of, you know, kinship and alignment. And it's funny because, you know, some of the, the DMS because people don't like it, people like to be private who have their sort of criticism of who you might covet, who you might not. And then and, and I get it sometimes where it's like, oh, I'll see that this is a black podcast.
00;42;28;11 - 00;42;51;10
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's like, Nah, it's an arts and culture podcast and, you know, and it's like, I'm a black straight man. The whole the whole thing or what have you? But I was like, I have a diverse set of interests and, you know, I want to have people that I think that move this thing along. And in addition, it's no sense like if I do a pitch, like I shot a pitch out there, you would you want to be on this podcast, you could say yes or no.
00;42;51;18 - 00;43;02;16
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And there's it's weird that there's a lack of sort of consideration as to who may say no, who may not get back to you, who may stand you up, because that happens a nice crack at a time that's happened.
00;43;02;16 - 00;43;19;27
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I know all too well. Yeah, I think it's just part of it, too, is, you know, you and I are both sort of in an interesting like we're kind of similar that we're both creative platforms. And, you know, I think people oftentimes look at platforms and I think there are certain responsibilities with it, which there are. And you do need to be able to considerations.
00;43;19;27 - 00;43;39;14
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But people also, I think, forget that like genuine logistics of things at times like I had this isn't necessarily related to race, but it is cut out on the note of getting me DMS. You know, there was an artists I had met at Art Basel a couple of years back and he's a poet and he does like street poetry.
00;43;39;16 - 00;43;55;22
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
You know, it's it's not necessarily my thing, but again, it's not just my taste. We try and cover everything and we met at this dinner party or whatever, and he is like, Oh, I love being your magazine. And I was like, Yeah, man, You know, like, things are a little busy right now, but I'll hit you up in a couple of months, or we kind of get things figured out and we can work some out.
00;43;56;08 - 00;44;10;29
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So, you know, fast forward a couple months later and I DMM because I was like, Oh, we're looking to do an article on my street poetry. Be interested, doesn't respond. I'm like, Oh, well, he's not into it. And then the next day he posts his Instagram story putting us on blast. And I was like, He tried to cancel me.
00;44;11;08 - 00;44;25;10
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And now that I'm popular, you know, they just want to be part of my show, but I can't give it. It is like this whole thing. And I'm like, Do like what the fuck, man? It wasn't like it wasn't even like a no, it was like a not right now, right Now. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?
00;44;25;22 - 00;44;50;11
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I think it's just I don't know, to me, I think a lot of the people that you do, those mean DMS and stuff like that, it's, it's stemming from their own insecurity and you can't help some of that. You know, that's, that's a huge problem You got to sort out, you know what I mean? And I feel like I try and be, you know, very on the level of people like, all right, you know, it's like or even like today I did like this talk for a friend and I was kind of I got a podcast and I mean, I can't stick around long.
00;44;50;11 - 00;45;07;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And he was like, Now, please, please. I was like, All right, I'll do it, you know? But and that's because he's a friend. And, you know, we like, again, there's a lot of mutual support in the community. And, you know, the graph guys in particular, they're they're very like, I feel like communities even tighter knit then street art in some ways.
00;45;07;13 - 00;45;25;07
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so, you know, I think to them it meant a lot that I kind of made the effort to come out and look out for you guys. You know, you've helped me out in the past. Top ten mobile app for my NYC super talented artist. He gets up like no other. But yeah, so I guess like, yeah yeah, yeah, you know, And so, oh, that's where the name up comes from.
00;45;25;08 - 00;45;44;22
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
By the way, a big part of the culture is getting up, which is to paint. And so that's where we got the name from is Yeah, Yeah. And you know, it's like people, you know, especially as we've gotten and we've grown and you know, we've started to get kind of a real following and started to kind of, you know, become more than just sort of a local that'll, hey, we're covering stuff like you get a lot of hate.
00;45;44;22 - 00;46;01;13
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, they always say that that's kind of a sign of success. And but it does still bother me, you know, at times on someone just like is talk and shit to talk shit, you know. And I've had artists where I've had disagreements and I've seen Macho Man, like, let's go have a cigaret let's, let's talk and talk through it face to face.
00;46;01;13 - 00;46;18;07
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And I've been able to kind of resolve problems that way. And you know, sometimes not with something we're going to agree on or we can at least kind of have that communication. But I do think the Internet has made it really easy for people to kind of throw rocks and hide behind the, you know, the Twitter or whatever.
00;46;18;07 - 00;46;18;28
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
You know what I mean?
00;46;19;06 - 00;46;40;17
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
That's the thing that I encounter on occasion. And I'll see these same folks, same circles. And it's almost like, Oh, why are you here now? That's just the energy that's there. And, you know, like you won't get the context because I'm sitting down, but I'm I'm six for like one large dude. So it's just like, you know, so when people see me, they're like, oh Oh, that's Rob.
00;46;40;17 - 00;47;01;17
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And then it's this sort of weird shift and, you know, I'd rather just have the conversation sort out, whatever it is, because there's a lot of different moving parts you know, email can be missed. A conversation you may feel went really well and you posted and they may feel, Oh, well, someone listened. They didn't like what I had say, so I'm blaming you for it or what have you.
00;47;01;17 - 00;47;20;11
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, and I can't account for that. But, you know, I think having the conversation is very important because and I think this was the thing I was trying to get to earlier. We don't really do nuance here, you know what I mean? That's the way that that culture is structured. But so I want to thank you for all of your insights as it's been like just really cool, really, though.
00;47;20;23 - 00;47;30;24
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And what I want to do real quick is go into these rapid fire questions. I got four four for you. You know, brevity is key here. As we wrap up, what is your favorite color?
00;47;31;22 - 00;47;32;25
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I would say indigo.
00;47;33;13 - 00;47;37;27
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Nice. Nice. Was the last book you read?
00;47;37;27 - 00;47;50;19
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I read actually, I was trying to do my research. I read the magazine. It's this basically collection of different articles about making magazines. I felt like I need to kind of brush up on some of my basics, so.
00;47;51;01 - 00;47;52;04
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's always good to tap back in.
00;47;52;17 - 00;47;52;26
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Yeah.
00;47;53;29 - 00;47;54;29
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Coffee or tea.
00;47;56;02 - 00;48;07;10
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
So was a coffee man for a long time. Started getting bad acid reflux and I try and tee it up, but I, you know, a little bit of both. Yeah. Usually I'm like coffee in the morning, tea in the afternoon.
00;48;07;19 - 00;48;11;29
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
All right. You boy might have a, a signature coffee coming out. This your bag?
00;48;12;07 - 00;48;12;24
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
It's very nice.
00;48;12;29 - 00;48;17;14
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I'm a author. Perhaps. Lastly, what is your favorite type of cuisine?
00;48;18;06 - 00;48;45;10
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Um, it's hard to narrow it down to one, but I put top three as, like, Japanese, Mexican and Thai. But Thai I would maybe put out the top because as I mentioned, I was living in Thailand for a while and that has got exposed to it. And you know, I it's funny because I used to be when I was younger, I almost closed my eyes as much as I was, just like I was just a dumb suburban teenager.
00;48;45;10 - 00;48;52;29
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
And so I wasn't really exposed to a lot of things. And then travel opened me up and yeah, when I found Thai food, I was like, Wow, this is like really fucking good.
00;48;53;21 - 00;49;07;13
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Therefore I'm here for it. Yeah, that's pretty much it. I want to thank you for coming on and invite and encourage you to tell the fine folks where they can check you out. Up magazine, all that good stuff. Social media, the floor is yours.
00;49;07;22 - 00;49;29;11
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
Cool. Well, thank you, Rob. I really appreciate the invite. You know, it's always fun to be able to kind of share the story and keep it going and keep it up. You know, I encourage you guys, all the listeners here to check us out on Instagram or up, underscore, underscore mag our website is up mag dot com. Um, that's really it.
00;49;29;11 - 00;49;49;09
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
I don't love social media so we're let's try and keep it to one keep my sanity but but yeah thank you again I really appreciate the time I appreciate the thoughtful questions I hope I was able to articulate without too much rambling. I'm sometimes I just kind of shoot from the hip and you know I start talking and I just kind of have to follow where I'm going.
00;49;49;09 - 00;49;51;12
TK Mills - The Truth In This Art
But I appreciate it. Appreciate the time.
00;49;51;28 - 00;50;13;01
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And well, there you have it, folks. I want to again thank TK Mills from Up magazine for coming on and telling us what's up when it comes to street art, graffiti and creative urban culture. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art culture in and around your community. You just have to look for it.
