Rob Lee: Welcome back to The Truth in this Art, your source for conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host Rob Lee. Thanks for joining me. Today we're running it back and I'm welcoming back a truly remarkable artist who is known for her unique abstract, neuro graphic art. I had the pleasure of connecting with her during my Truth in this Art Beyond series where I regularly visited Philadelphia back in 2023 and I'm excited to explore the incredible evolution of her work. Please welcome back to the program Ayanna Viviana. Welcome back to the podcast. So for those who aren't familiar with you and your work and even checking out the first interview, you know, we did a couple years back, could you reintroduce yourself, describe your work, and share something you've been up to lately. It's sort of a three tiered introduction here.
Ayiana_Viviana: Sure. So I am Ayiana Viviana. I am an abstract, neuro graphic artist. Something I've been up to lately. Art related because I just came back from Puerto Rico and that was phenomenal.
My soul needed that. Yeah, so I came back from Puerto Rico. I have not been to Puerto Rico since 2021.
So I'll talk about that. We can get into all the art stuff later, but Puerto Rico is a very near and dear place to my heart and I've been feeling this tool to like go back and really to spend a significant amount of time there. And even though this time I didn't do that, I was only there for about five days. It just felt really good to be on the motherland, on the fatherland. And to reconnect a really cool thing that I had there when I went was that I went to this Indigenous ceremonial site where the Indigenous Dainos of Puerto Rico did their ceremonies and they had the rock formations and it was just so spiritual and fulfilling and beautiful. And I really felt like the energy of my people with me and that was a beautiful experience.
Rob Lee: That's wonderful and that's exactly sort of something that makes sense. It doesn't have to be art related culture. We try to get to the stories that matter and that's really cool because I was sharing a little bit and it's funny that I asked about Puerto Rican food before we got started. But visiting New Orleans, now a couple beginning of March for Mardi Gras, but being able to go there, I'm not from there, right? But it always has that sort of pull of being connected to something and getting something culturally rich from it and being down there for Mardi Gras is just a energy that's there and I don't know, it hit in a way so I think those interviews upon returning, I just had a new found energy and it's sort of like maybe the accent was in there a little bit.
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah, because you pick up that energy. You absolutely pick up the energy of your surroundings, the people you surround yourself, the spaces that you go to. And I've never been to New Orleans or Mardi Gras, obviously, but if I've not been to New Orleans. But I've heard that it's a very spiritual place and that energy is strongly felt and from what I've heard.
Rob Lee: 100% and I'll give the shout out there. Apparently, Mardi Gras is also in Alabama. So I think that's where the first one was at. So they have that sort of, they have those beats. I learned a couple years back, South Carolina is more famous for peaches, but Atlanta takes the name Georgia.
Ayiana_Viviana: It's beef when you go further south. It's like, this is us. It's those little, yeah, the beef of the south.
Rob Lee: You mentioned, um, Neurographic Art is, can you explain what that is for the listeners? I mean, I looked it up. I'm here, but for the listeners, you know,
Ayiana_Viviana: the, the, could you let us, yes, absolutely. So Neurographic Art, it's still a fairly new form of art. I actually found out that it has not even been around for like 20 years, as, and recognized as Neurographic Art. But Neurographic Art is this idea that you take your canvas, your substrate, whatever you were using to create your artwork on, and you just kind of free flow.
There, it could be lines, they could be smooth and flowing or sharp and jagged, whatever your brain is kind of storing or holding, you put it onto the canvas or onto the paper. And that's it. And, you know, you can add whatever you want to add to it. There are layers of Neurographic Art, but the idea, the base idea of it is that you're taking these things from your head and you're putting them onto paper. For me personally, my process involves kind of studying those lines afterwards and then seeing what I feel like the piece wants to convey or communicate and then painting it and adding markings to it and patterns to it that kind of bring that to the forefront. But not too much because it's still abstract. And I want to give people the opportunity to see what they want to see in it or with their own lines, you know, kind of, you know, imagines.
Rob Lee: That makes sense. So, when we were talking earlier, you mentioned that you just kind of started in that sort of stage of your artistic journey. So, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, what was the pull to drive towards like this sort of work, sort of Neurographic Art?
Ayiana_Viviana: So, the pull was more so curiosity. I had this, there was an artist who had been following that also mentioned in the first podcast, Fina Mina, who is a Neurographic Artist. She's a multi-hyphenate artist, but one of the forms of art she does is Neurographic Art. And I was kind of intrigued by it, but it wasn't until necessity kind of called me to it where I felt like I was very burdened with a lot of things that I was experiencing in my life.
And this is not something that I share on the first podcast, but I'll share now. At the time that I started to paint in September, like on a consistent basis, there was a voice in my head that kept saying to me, I was actually a little suicidal. And there was this voice in my head that kept saying that I was a problem.
And if I eliminated myself, there wouldn't be a problem. But then that's, there was a second voice that said, just pick up a paintbrush in Kansas. And I was like, this doesn't make sense. I'm not a painter. I've never really painted.
But I listened to that second voice. And what I found upon starting that process and practice of consistently creating art or painting was that I felt lighter. I felt like all of the things that I had been carrying in me were like all of a sudden now existed somewhere else. And thankfully, I think back on that now, and I'm very grateful for it because it very much does feel like divine guidance, saying like, hey, I know your brain is telling you this one thing, but try this instead. And literally, my life has completely changed since I decided to listen to that voice and explore this.
Rob Lee: Wow. That is heavy. And thank you for the vulnerability and sharing that. And let that be a lesson. Listen to the second voice. Don't look to the first voice. First voice.
Ayiana_Viviana: You still have to discern because sometimes maybe, you know, everything, but the second voice is not the best one. But just listen to the voice that feels like your soul's truth, you know, because they're always constantly like we live so much in our heads, right? Like we are, we are human beings and we're interacting with the world. But a lot of what happens in our world is based on this. And so sometimes we're not kind to ourselves in our mind, you know, and I think it's important to practice that and to listen to the voice of kindness. And if it's not there, then to cultivate one. Yeah.
Rob Lee: There, this also, as far as taking from internal and putting it like outward and just like being abstract and but putting it outward, you know, I look at my own sort of journey and being a podcaster for almost two decades at this point. And there were times just going from being in my twenties to now 40. And having that sort of like arc, it's different stages.
I can't, I shouldn't be the same person I was in my twenties that I am now and so on. And in it, I would at times have this podcast as a way to sort of exercise certain things that I was thinking, things that I was curious about, often being wrong, sometimes being right, sometimes being insightful. And even this season, right? I was very curious and building out what this season looks like about artist attrition and sort of catching up with folks. It's been a podcast that's been on for five years and or six almost.
And, you know, folks work can change considerably in a year in two years, let alone five. And one of the interviews that I did earlier in this season, I interviewed on quirky Baltimore based artist who he and I kind of look alike, you know, which I'm told. And, you know, he had mentioned this idea that, you know, when he's having just an emotional response or feeling or just something he paints it out. And something very powerful beat about being used, being able to use an artistic expression to take something that's an emotion, something that's felt and translating it to a media.
Ayiana_Viviana: So, yeah.
Rob Lee: So, let's talk about growth. I was touching on sort of this as time passes. So reflecting on your own artistic growth since we last spoke again, just a moment two years ago. Has it been more of a steady climb, a series of like leaps and bounds? And what have you learned along the way?
Ayiana_Viviana: So it feels, you know, there have been seasons where it has felt like kind of just steady climbing, but then there have been moments during that climb where all of a sudden it's almost like I get supercharged and now I can leap. And so that's kind of what it felt. It's been a mixture of both to be honest, but it has been steady progression and steady forward movement. And what I've learned is that that's part of the journey, right? That sometimes that those leaps and bounds are going to come in when they come. It's beautiful and you get such a validating feeling of like, I'm doing the right thing and I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.
But there's also value in the moments where you're just like, okay, one foot in front of the other. I'm just going to make another painting tonight. And I don't know when my next exhibition is going to be, but I'm going to keep creating the artwork so that when I do get called to do an exhibition, I have the work available. And so that's really what I've learned is that I can't be illusioned with the idea of, oh, I'm going to be this, you know, that all of the opportunities are going to be the big opportunities.
Sometimes it's the small ones. Like I just set up my work in a local coffee shop yesterday after having like an exhibition at the top of the year where I sold close to $9,000 piece. So, you know, and it's gallery work versus like a coffee shop and not, you know, this is not to say that that's small in any way, but it doesn't feel the same way, right? It's not a gallery with like known, you know, collectors that are coming through to look at the work. It's just people come in and get their cup of coffee every day and they'll see the work and they'll learn who I am.
And I might not sell anything there. But the thing that I've learned the most is that all of it is part of the process. And so instead of having this expectation of these really big leaps and bounds to be grateful for them when they come and also just continue that steady forward climb.
Rob Lee: Yeah, it's, you know, sometimes we look for these, these big, big, big hits and 1% here, 1% there. And it's a progress thing. And, you know, so, you know, I'll be vulnerable and transparent in the end of 2023. I've been on this. I hate the term weight loss journey, but you know, I've dropped about about 100 pounds during that.
Ayiana_Viviana: That's amazing.
Rob Lee: And just weightlifting, eating different, all of this different stuff. And, you know, when you see sort of what your goal might look like at the beginning or especially I'm a data analyst.
Ayiana_Viviana: So whenever I see a helper, how do I turn this number into something smaller? But I think the consistency of it is just being able to do something more each day, something better each day, or just kind of commit to a thing. And that leads to consistency and to have it. And I don't know. And I see the alignment, like, you know, I go back to earlier in this series, probably 2022, I was doing a podcast like every day. And I was like, that's a lot, you know, and that is a lot. Yeah.
Rob Lee: Feeling like if I'm not busy and not doing and you get the thing you should. Yeah. But the sort of now it's just like being comfortable with, hey, I'm going to do maybe two to three and then I'm going to take a break, you know, two to three in a week. Then I'm going to take a break. And then I'm going to do some of the cultural things. I'm going to visit Puerto Rico.
Ayiana_Viviana: And that is so important because I realized that like, consistently creating and pushing and being in a space where you don't have any downtime or you don't have time to just live through and experience the world, like that creativity kind of it can become stagnant, because you're not living life enough to actually cool from those experiences and pour into the art. You have to have those moments of rest.
You have to have those moments of downtime in order to fuel and recharge yourself. And unfortunately, the society that we live in tells us to always be going, going, going, going. It tells us, you know, you got to hustle, you got to work hard. And if you don't do that, then it's, you know, you're not going to be successful. But to me, success is it's a little different.
It looks more like balance. It looks like creating and making connections and networking and hustling and doing all those things before a period. And then I'm going to go into inclusion and I'm going to take a really long, you know, bath and maybe just, you know, read out and like read books on my couch for, you know, a week. And that's another thing I've been really getting back into that I feel like I had neglected a lot was like, just, I love to read and I hadn't been reading as much and now I am and I love that for me. Love that as well.
Rob Lee: It's so important and, you know, I'm always getting something from these sessions. I think it serves, it's, I think it serves sort of the work ultimately. So like this year, I've not big travel, but I, it's not been a week that I haven't gone somewhere else, like the sort of normal setup. So like New Orleans, New York, DC, like every week and really in that sort of downtime and being, I like to take the train, right? If possible, being able to come up with questions, insights, observe, and it feels like small doses in some ways of like that, a sense of getting away from the, the regular, the hustle, the hustle of it. And I find for whatever reason, I'm still very productive. I'm still getting stuff done and I, and that's what I envisioned for where this goes, this podcast overall, where it goes. And, you know, you were a part in that initial interview of me really exploring that. Like, I look back on that year, going up to Philly every two weeks consistently for interviews. And sometimes it may not be an interview.
We made it during it, you know, remotely, but going up there for that, that is like an exercise that I look at now and like, yeah, you did that. Why'd you do that?
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee: So I heard this saying, you know, and I hear it all the time, sometimes I get caught on these business-ish things that I've heard that no risk and no reward. And sometimes look at it with my eyebrow raised a little bit and like, can you give me something a little more?
But I think, and I think when I look for a little more, it's because it seems too simple. But could you share maybe a story about risk or maybe even like self-belief because there's a risk in that, that, you know, in self-belief and your talent or your work, do you have a story that comes to mind?
Ayiana_Viviana: So I think really, when I think of self-belief, I think of getting to a place where I had this experience in 2023 in April of 2023. And at this point, you know, it had been about seven months since I was consistently creating art. And I was putting my work out there. I had done a couple of like pop-up shows. And I had sold work at a like, an art gallery, but every pop-up show that I would go to, I just wouldn't sell anything. And I was just like, you know, what's like, what's going on?
Is it me? My people are not really resonating with my work. That day, I remember really putting some intentional thought into how I would present myself and what I wanted to have on display, you know, on my table. So I had my artwork, of course, but I also brought a blank canvas. And in that blank canvas, I invited everyone to leave their mark and essentially just wanted to create something that was like a collective piece, like a communal piece. Like we're all, we're all the artists here, right? And I remember at that event, they had all of the artists who were participating go up and speak.
And I really felt like I stepped into my power that day. And I went up there and essentially talked a little bit about the idea of that exhibition, which was I created about seven to eight different pieces that were that looked vastly different. Some of them were like scrapes. Some of them were like the neurologic work.
One of them was like collage work where I had cut out. But I use the commonality in all of them was that I had used the same color palette. And the idea that I was trying to drive home was that we all have, you know, these things that are in common is, and that's that we're human and we exist here on earth, right? But how that's expressed and how we create, like it can look vastly different.
And that's okay. And I wanted to just encourage people to kind of embrace themselves and who they are. And funny enough, in doing that, I felt like that led me to fully embrace it because the way that people responded to me kind of validated like, yeah, you have this creative ability to like think through a, you know, the issue that I was having, which was that I wasn't really, I wouldn't say connecting because I was connecting with people, but I wasn't selling any of the work. And that was the first top up show where I ended up selling, you know, significant amount of artwork.
People really connected with me. People left their mark on the canvas. I, as a matter of fact, when I took that canvas home and like added my part to it, it ended up selling.
As soon as I posted it on my Instagram, someone's like, I want it how much? And so there was this like validation that comes from pouring into the people that I'm serving through my art, but then also them pouring back into me that really helped me to achieve that self-belief because up until that point, I was struggling with like imposter syndrome and feeling like, am I really an artist? Like I just decided to start doing this one day and I'm not, you know, like professionally trained. I didn't go to school for this, but that was the time where I kind of just took a risk on this idea, just this thought that I had.
And it ended up being successful and very validating to me as an artist. I needed that. As much as those people needed the message that I brought, I needed the energy that they gave back to me when that message was delivered. That's important.
Rob Lee: That's powerful. Thank you. Yeah, of course. I think this next question, I'm going to skip one and go back to it, but I think this next question is a good follow-up for that sort of previous story and experience.
Could you describe the importance of professional or like peer respect or consideration? You know, they say it hits different when you see like, man, I really like your work. It's like, I like yours as well. It's like, yo, I own one of your pieces. This is amazing.
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah. Yeah. So funny story. Years ago, before I was ever an artist, I used to print T-shirts. I had a T-shirt printing business and it was like on a DTG, which is a direct-to-garmint printer. And it was really that that sort of printing was really for artists because we were able, like we were able to print like very colorful, vibrant pieces without having to make different screens for every color.
It was just directly on the garment. Anyway, long story short, one of the artists who at the time I was printing shirts for, we had a great connection. And, you know, I always admired his art. And in this past year, in August of 2024, he commissioned a piece for me from me. And I was just blown away, like thinking about, this is an artist who I have admired for like close to a decade now. And now here he is, you know, supporting me and purchasing my work. And as a matter of fact, he has his own like gallery space now. And if I'm not mistaken, I'll probably be in there in June. I have to double check with him, but he's invited me to show my work there. But I think that that validation, the respect that you get from another artist is, it's unparalleled.
Like there's something so validating about someone who knows the intricacies of, you know, making art and all of the things, all of the things that come with that art making and see something that you make. And they're like, oh yeah, like, like my partner. So here's the thing, my last episode that I did with you, I was married. I'm not married anymore. But I have a partner who is also an artist. And he tells me all of the time, like, you know, how much he admires my work.
Like, he's like, you know, I'm really a fan of your work. And I mean, he's my partner, he loves me. So yeah, he's going to say that. But he, like, I genuinely, you know, believe that like what he says to me is true. And he'll see things in my work sometimes that I don't always see.
But that feeling is unparalleled. And I think that being able to respect another artist's work, and also not have it be competitive, right? Because I'm not looking at anything that anyone else is creating and comparing myself in any way. And I don't think that that's the thing that any artist should do. There is power in just recognizing that your expression is unique, right?
Like, there's, you know, thousands of podcasts, but like, nobody's Rob Lee, you know what I mean? So there's that, that, that knowing that comes when you really fully step into like, who you are as an artist, that is so beautiful. And I think there's a really important part of that that means you can't compare yourself to anyone else, you might want to, you might want to look at someone else's ratings and see their following and see, you know, how much did they sell that for? But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm very happily creating in the way that feels like it resonates with my spirit, with my soul. And I wouldn't want to be anyone else or creating like anyone else.
Rob Lee: That's a really, really, really good point. I think the comparison is the thief of joy. It's a distraction. It's noise. And I find often, because I've run into it as well, where I get that feedback for folks in media, like, I like when I talk with like the guests and they're like, man, we really like what you do and so on. And having that, that feels really good.
It's good feedback. And, but it hits different when it's someone that's in like media, that's in like public radio or podcasting, that is just like, wow, like, I was at on airfest back in February and connecting with folks and just talking a little bit about my stuff. And I always and modest and just naturally and undersell myself that I can gas it up, you know, if I want
Ayiana_Viviana: to, but, you know, reality is just like, I do a thing that I enjoy and I think is good, but it's sort of that. And, you know, when I get that feedback from folks who are in sort of the industry, you know, like, no, no, you're really good at this. And it's like, well, that's, that's great to hear. And it's great to, you know, to know that and thank you. And, you know, you are, let me just add to that chorus of voices.
Rob Lee: I appreciate it. And I think the other thing that happens is the comparison thing from moving to this next next question. The comparison thing, I find often, where does it come from? And I find that it's people external is voices external for my own that are speaking on it.
You know, they just do the same thing you do, you know, you're just this or you hear what they made. And it's like, I wouldn't be thinking about that. But it's like, I like sci fi movies, it's almost like inception. It's like, yo, you put this thought in my head. Now I'm trying to sort of move it around and reason with it.
Because there's all of these sort of dark things that float around the scarcity mindset, all of these sort of different things that are part of it. But not necessarily what you're considering when you're making your work when you're even preparing to make your work. So that's what I'm thinking there.
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, when it comes to that, I think that I'm very, that's why I'm very selective with who I allow close to me and I share the ideas and thoughts that I have about my work with because the last thing I need is a person that's going to point my eyes in a different direction when I'm saying like, hey, this is my dream.
This is my vision. The last thing I wanted someone saying, well, this person is, guess who doesn't care? Me.
Like, I don't care. And my thought process is, you know, the people who are close to me, the people who I actually allow myself to share like thoughts, visions, dreams that I have for myself and my art are people who I know and can trust to fully support me. And I think that's an important part of it, right? Because you said it comes externally, but I think what happens is once that seed is planted, then it lives inside of you. That seed is implanted inside of your mind. And now all of a sudden these thoughts are coming and, you know, if comparison or, you know, doubt or whatever the case might be, that is, has come from an external place, but now is internal and you're thinking that it's you, but it's not.
It was never you. Because when you remove all of that, when you silence the noise, when you take out all of the garbage, you realize like, you know, you know who you are and you know what you're here for. Right. It's that simple.
Rob Lee: So you, and Abby remiss if I don't mention this, you touched on dreams a second ago. So there's a story regarding a dream
Ayiana_Viviana: that I want to hear about this. I want to hear about this dream and the sort of there is an actuality that happened as it's connected to this dream. So could you tell us a bit about that experience with this, this dream that I keep hearing about?
Yeah. So I had this dream sometime last year, like maybe late spring or at least spring, I can't remember exactly when, but I had this dream that I was signing checks and the combined, it was multiple checks and it was for a combined total of $16,000. And I was in the dream, I was happy, like I needed this money and I'm signing the checks and I'm like, finally, you know, like I'm getting this.
And that was it. Like the dream was very short. But when I woke up, I got an email from someone who I had been in talks with, they had, they thought my artwork would be good for this idea. Are you, I'm not sure if you're familiar with mural arts, but the director of like communications with mural arts had reached out to me and he was like, hey, like, you know, we're doing this really, it's a project that they do every year in the month of October, where they choose an artist to make a design for mural arts months. This, or not this year, but last year was really special because in October, it was their 40th anniversary.
Also my 40th birthday. So it was, it felt very, you know, aligned and synchronized. Anyway, that next morning after that dream, I wake up to the email from the person at mural arts and he's like, can you give me a quote on how much you want to charge us for this project? Mind you, the size of the design was like, it was like a seven by seven and a half inch thing, very small, nothing larger, major, but that design would live on a wine bottle. They were going to put it on a wine bottle and the sales of the wine, a proceeds of the sales would go to supporting mural arts.
Additionally, mural arts would kind of own that artwork in perpetuity. So anyway, I'm sitting here talking to my sister and my partner and I'm like, guys, they're asking me for a quote and I don't know how much to say. And, you know, but I had told them about the dream. So my sister and my partner are like, say 16k, say 16k, like you have been in for a reason. And I was just like, and I typed up the email, I typed up the email and I promise you, I felt so ridiculous, but I typed it up and I sent it and I asked for 16,000 dollars. I got a response back saying, hey, I think you may have misunderstood our budget. We don't have that much money to pay you, however, because we really value you as an artist and this is a special year, like the most that we can offer you is 5k.
And that amount was actually four times as much as what they had paid every other artist who has done that in previous years. I'm not sure. I can't hear you. Oh, okay.
I was like, I can't hear it, Rob. So I that what that taught me to, I didn't get the 16,000 dollars, right? I didn't get that money. But what it taught me to, if I had, if I hadn't had that dream, I wouldn't have shot that high. And I probably would have gotten what every other artist had gotten in the years, you know, prior.
And so if anything, I feel like that dream taught me to not be afraid. And another quick little story that I'll share with you, although this might be, this might be in one of the questions that you have planned, but I made a really like a five pieces, the biggest piece I've ever done. And I priced it at $8,800. And when I took it to the gallery at the top of this year, to the owner, I was like, Johnny, I don't know if I should like lower this price, even though I had already had that experience, right? And I like, I felt like I had stepped a little more into asking for what I thought I was worth.
So Johnny, I don't know. I was like, I want to kind of maybe lower it to like 5k. And she was like, no, she actually curts. She was like, we're going to leave it at the 88. She said if it was there for two months in her gallery, so she was like, if it doesn't sell the first month and you want to lower the price, then maybe we'll think about it. But I never had to do that because the piece sold. So that was another really powerful moment for me as an artist that helped me to understand, one, the power in the work that I create and the power in just asking for what I know I'm worth. There's value in that and recognizing and knowing it and not playing small. So yeah.
Rob Lee: Wow, that is, those are, those are cool. Like, I like hearing when folks are like, Hey, I know this is a little ridiculous. I'm still going to do it. This came from a dream and I'm going to shoot my shot.
Ayiana_Viviana: I might miss, but I'm going to still try. And I had this gig I worked last year. I was doing some podcasts and all of that good stuff. And, and I was working with a client and, you know, they, I had a really interesting relationship, a shaky relationship with that client over the previous years, just kind of not respecting the grind and the hustle. They reached out and kind of, you know, different staffs was in place. And they acknowledged like, we weren't great with you in the past. So, you know, kind of a mea culpa and they led with, Hey, what do you want to make to do this? And I was just like, Oh, okay, we're right to it. Cause I can be right to it as well.
You know, not the whole goofy. So tell me about your budget. What are your expectations? Right.
Right. Half of this, whatever's commiserate with your budget is sort of the way I, I answer it like a, like a resume. And, and, you know, they, they gave me a quote and I was like, look, I'm, I'm willing to commit these hours during this time because as a rule, I don't really do things on the weekends.
I just try to like hang out, you know, and I was like, this isn't a weekend. So I got a tax shot a little bit. And I was real like the recluse. I got a tax show. You did. And then, you know, I did it and I made a, I made kind of the money that I wanted to make. And, you know, I put in like maybe 18, 20 hours. And it was like a really cool experience or a really good learning experience.
So, you know, there is a another person here who I learned and this is the comparison thing, I suppose, but it was more informational. So I didn't get hooked, but I heard that they, for the same thing that I did, asked for double what you asked for from your dream. Wow. The person who was divvying up that cast was like, there was no universe that we were going to play. Hey, second rate podcaster of balls. I was like, yo, the compliment is in there. But also the change about the dollar amount. And I was like, that's all I'm going to do here.
Ayiana_Viviana: So, this is like this. You have to ask this and you have to ask for what you feel you're worth. And even if it sounds like a crazy shot and that's the piece that I sold really, really kind of cemented that for me where I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to stop doing this. I'm going to stop saying small. I'm going to stop doubting myself, you know, and in the subtle ways, right? Because it's a little whisper.
There's a little whispers. And for me, those come from just years of not really honoring myself and not really being authentic to myself. But in, like in October of 23, I separated from like my, you know, ex-husband. And I was like, you know what, my entire life I've been living according to what other people wanted me. And I'm tired of doing that.
I'm not going to do that anymore. And so the audacity comes from, you know, I'm just, you know, I'm going to really fully just be out here as myself and whatever ideas, thoughts come to mind. I'll put that out there, including what I asked for for a project. And so far, you know, it's been working out for me.
Rob Lee: I dig it. I dig it. So I want to key in on one of the things that I got a couple more questions about. I want to key in on one other thing. So, you know, we've got the, got the sale cover. We have that. So a documentary is what I read that is coming in the pipeline. So can you talk a bit about that?
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah. So in October or September of last year, I went to this event at Dayed Puerto Ricanos. They were looking for just artists in the area who wanted to share their thoughts on how important it was for Spanish voices, like Latin voices to be heard in the community. They were, it was really just like a round circle kind of conversation.
In that conversation, I ended up sharing the story that I shared earlier with you about the voices in my head. And there was a young filmmaker there who was really moved by the story. And after the event, she came up to me. She was like, thank you so much for sharing that. She was like, basically saying it was something she needed to hear and she could resonate with. And I did a brief interview with her. And then, you know, what about my wife?
Didn't think of anything. But earlier this year, she was like, hey, I want to do a film, a short documentary on your story. And so we met up.
And as a matter of fact, right before I left for Puerto Rico, she told me that she got the grant funding for the project. So I'm really excited we start filming in May. And it's going to cover a lot more of, like it's more than just my artistic journey.
I, you know, I think I mentioned this in like the first podcast I did, like I was a teenage mom. And so that kind of really shaped so much of my life and who I am as a person and still does in a lot of ways to this day. Because I think like, I didn't get to fully live my life. And so now I'm just like, I'm 40, but I'm here.
I'm kind of doing the things that I probably would have done in like my 20s if I didn't have children, you know. And so I'm really excited for it because the premise of the documentary is going to be to talk about mental health in the, you know, Latinx community to talk about how those things are viewed and how they're stigmatized and how no one wants to talk about voices in your head telling you to kill yourself. But it's real and it exists.
And for a lot of people who struggle with depression, anxiety, and just, you know, moving through the world and the way that in the world that we live in today, mental health is a real thing. So I'm excited to talk about all of those things in the documentary. My kids are going to be in it. So that's just such a fulfilling like feeling my daughter who's 23 and also a creative. She's a, you know, photographer, phenomenal photographer, content creator.
She's going to be in it. She was, you know, my first born baby. She's not a baby anymore.
She's 23, but hopefully she'll be my baby. But I'm just really grateful, you know, because I've often believed that I have a powerful story, right? Like I know that there's a lot of power in the experiences that I have had and how I've kind of alchemized them and moved through them and not allowed them to like put me in the boxes that society would say I should go in because of these certain experiences. And so I've often felt that like, okay, I have, there's a powerful story here, but I don't always know how to tell it. And I tell bits and pieces of it through my art, through my writing, but this feels like a whole different thing. Like I'm going to be able to tell the full story. I mean, not full, full, but you know, whatever, you'll get a much larger, you know, picture of what I've been through and hopefully that is inspiring to people. I really want to have it connect with young girls who feel like their lives are probably like over because now all I have this child and I have to take care of it. And I really wanted to resonate with like young women who may have become teenage mothers, who like me may have been victims of domestic violence, you know, all of the things, all of the things. I'm just, I'm really excited and grateful that the most prominent thing that I feel is gratitude to be able to take these things and use them for good. Like they were hard to live through, but now I get to take them and do something good with it. So yeah.
Rob Lee: That's good. That's really good. And yeah, I mean, being able to share, as I say in this tagline the intro stories that matter. And you know, I'll be looking for my invite, you know, in the premiere because you know, I'm a pull up, right? Here's the thing. I sort of capture, you know, certain aesthetics and they fit. So I can pull up in like this Walter Mercado like cape, right?
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah. Yeah. See, I'm down.
Ayiana_Viviana: I get that. I'll keep that in mind, right?
Rob Lee: Look, there is a slick back. You're gonna have a wig. There's a running bit I say with my partner all the time. Like we watch Dracula, the 1892 joint with Keanu Reeves and I was like, yo, look, I'm going to go to Sweden and I'm going to get this unit and I'm going to have that put on and it's going to have the hair in the back of the neck that connects to it. That's what's going to anchor it. I was like, I'm doing that.
Ayiana_Viviana: Anchor at the neck. Anchor at the neck. All right. I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna say tunes for future episodes to see.
Rob Lee: Oh, that's the goal. That's the goal. That's how you show up. And then she'll throw it out there. She'll be like, yeah, so you don't have like some like Dominican necklace on? Like what are we doing?
Ayiana_Viviana: Or this is one really obscure reference. And if you get it, we're definitely friends. I truly, truly been listening to a lot of like Miami freestyle music recently. Okay. I like Stevie B a lot. Okay.
Rob Lee: I'm going to cop that whole aesthetic. Okay. The hair, the leather jacket, the full fit. It's bring love, Todd.
Ayiana_Viviana: Stay tuned. Stay tuned.
Rob Lee: Look, that's what's going to happen. So I got like one more real question I want to ask you before I move into the rapid fire questions. And this one has to just go back to the base up at all. Right? So, you know, Philly, you know, I want to talk about the autistic and cultural growth from your lens. Like, you know, in the last few years, you know, since you and I've talked and, you know, as I said before we got started, I haven't been up there as much, but planning a return, you know, what have you noticed from your lens? What excites you about sort of the art scene and the future around Philly arts and culture?
Ayiana_Viviana: So I think what's really exciting, right, like literally right now in the month of April and the month of May, there are these meetings that are happening. Like Philly is divided into like different districts. And so there are these meetings that are taking place in the month of April and May that are led by the people who have the funding for arts and culture in the city, but are attended by all of the artists and makers, all of the people who would be on the receiving and about funding. And the first meeting was actually today, which I missed to be on this podcast, but that's okay, because it's not my district.
So it's okay. Like my district actually date is to be determined or to be announced. So I don't know what date is going to be yet, but I will definitely attend the one for my district to give my input because I think, and so that's really exciting to me because it means that when it comes to funding for the arts, which I think is something that's, you know, incredibly important, especially with the way things are going with this administration. We won't talk too much about that, but you know, there's this worry of like, is this a sustainable thing that I'm doing? Will I be able to make a living as an artist?
You know, what opportunities will be available? What funding will be available to me as an artist? And so I think it's really important for the artists who are going to be receiving to say, this is how these funds should be allocated and, you know, it should be in these kinds of grants. And this is what those, you know, how those grants should be formatted. And sometimes there's like so many barriers to access funding, whether it's language or even, you know, well, some people, they're just not great writers, right?
So when they go to, like, you know, write a grant, it's like, well, I don't know what to say. So I think that this is really important. And I'm excited for that because this feels like it kind of puts the power back in the people's hands in that way, instead of someone who's working in the office in city hall saying, okay, we're going to allocate, you know, $3 million for this to this, but you're not out in the streets, like really understanding how people are living and working with and through the arts to say how these funds should best be allocated.
So that's really, really exciting. And outside of that, I would say that, you know, Philly has its art communities. And I know last time we talked, I was talking about like just on a very personal level, like engaging people. That was more so for engaging specifically the youth, which is also really important. I'm actually going to be potentially doing a workshop sometime between May and October for young people who have been impacted by gun violence, teaching them kind of like intuitive art and how to find ways to core out their expression and their emotions of what they experience on a daily basis, whether it's, you know, directly impacted by gun violence or just a fear of like, okay, I live in this neighborhood and I don't know if I'll catch a stray bullet today. And so I'll potentially be doing a workshop, giving them tools, like just putting things in their toolbox that says, hey, this is how you can process and deal with those sort of things.
So that's also really exciting. But when we first spoke, when I was re-listening to the podcast, I was like, man, like I was not really immersed in the like art community really, as well as I would have liked. So that's why my answer was just like, oh, just talk to your neighbors and invite those kids in to, you know, make art, which is valid and important. And still, you know, I stand by what I said, but having a like broader perspective now, I see that, you know, it is really making sure that the artists are able to write artists are alchemists, and we need to be able to kind of set what I was saying to you before you started recording, right? We need to be able to set any worries or concerns about how we're just going to survive as human beings in this society and how we're going to make a living.
We need to be able to set all of that aside and know like, okay, I have what I need. Now just focus on the alchemy. Now just focus on doing the work.
Now just focus on living in purpose. And so Philly is really wonderful in that it has so many different art communities and people really appreciate the arts here. There's all types of like, beautiful, brilliant artists in this city. And the more I am immersed in the community, the more I see it, the more I experience it. And I'm just, I'm blown away all the time by how beautifully brilliant of an artistic city Philly is.
Rob Lee: It's great. It's great answer. And I think it's a very honest answer too. I mean, just kind of being involved, going deeper into that, but also the, from the fundraising perspective, you know, I think a lot of times, like, I got a degree, I, you know, I know how to write a few things, I'll string together an email, but I find that, you know, when someone does something creative, and a lot of the way that these, these applications and the RFPs and all of that good stuff is written, it takes folks out. We're already super busy doing the actual work. And, you know, I, you know, to, to secure funding for on airfests, I mentioned earlier, I had to apply for this five different times, you know, sort of getting that radar. And until I had a conversation, which is the thing that I do, and I articulated, I was just like, we can compare it in this way. Me attending sort of this from a professional development and an enhancement of what I do creatively, it's the same as a visual artist going to like a retreat and a college. But I was like, I don't have a space to write that in an application. So I think when folks are actually listening to the people that they're serving, or the aspire to serve, they're able to get some insights of what works, what doesn't work, because, you know, those folks are busy, they're trying to do their best in any of the cities that, you know, are trying to fund arts, right? But also AI is a beast, and it's, it's everywhere.
Ayiana_Viviana: That's a whole different podcast episode.
Rob Lee: I deal with it every day, as far as the day job goes. But, you know, as far as this perspective, you know, you have just different ways of getting to a no. But when folks are listening in and trying to guide it and give that context, and I'm very fortunate that we have some good folks in sort of arts administration that are doing that, leaning in and like, all right, how can we make this accessible? And not holding those purse strings as if it's their own dollars, you know?
Ayiana_Viviana: Exactly. Like, listen, sis, bro, you're going to get paid either way, right? So like, be the vessel, the conduit for someone else to be able to have that same security and sense of comfort, you know, at the end of the day to know that, like, yeah, I'll have enough to take care of my bills. And, you know, and that, yeah, that's, it is a really important thing. And I agree.
I think that people in those positions are doing their best, you know, but if you are not a creative and you're not an artist, and you're not actively in that space, then it's really hard for you to understand what's needed. So that's why, you know, these meetings, I think there's probably like 14 or something, some number around there. But there's these meetings, and I'm really excited for all of them, because every single area in the city will have its opportunity to give their input to say, like, hey, this is what we need, and this is how we need it. And yeah, I'm excited. I know a few people who were attending the one tonight, so I'm going to hit them up after I'm done, like, hey, you know, how's the meeting going? And just, you know, get more of a feel, because tonight is the first one. So I'm not even fully sure.
I know what the, you know, the registration form said and what they said they would be covering, but like an actuality, I want to know, like, well, what did they ask and what input did the people give? So I'm excited for that.
Rob Lee: You can only just see you asking for the minutes. Can you send me the data?
Ayiana_Viviana: No, seriously, please.
Rob Lee: All right. So I want to, as we kind of wrap up in this, this first phase of the wrap up, I got a few rapid fire questions, and then we'll close out. So let's see, you touched on, you know, getting back to reading. It's the last book that you read, or what are you currently reading?
Ayiana_Viviana: I'm currently reading Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin. Okay. It's a good, you have you read it? No.
Rob Lee: Everything is audio. Everything is audio. It's just like that audio book.
Ayiana_Viviana: Yes, it's really good.
Rob Lee: Let's see. Coffee choice. You know, you mentioned, you know, sort of your work is in a coffee shop, or what have you, so it must be fast. You know, you go into a coffee shop, what are you getting? What's your go-to?
Ayiana_Viviana: I'm getting a regular drip coffee with black with honey. Okay. I'm a simple girl. I'm a simple girl.
Rob Lee: I used to do this place, I used to do this thing at a coffee shop in Baltimore that no longer exists. So you know how folks are going out? I just wanted black, coffee black, or heavy, or whatever. I would mention different folks in sort of black history. That's the color that I want my coffee to be.
Ayiana_Viviana: So I'm like, too much cream. I am not looking for like a smoky rod.
Ayiana_Viviana: I'm looking for lengths since you give me more MLK please.
Rob Lee: Yeah. Yeah. And if it was like, yo, they asked you your milk choice. I was like, yo, if I can get like, get that Bob Marley,
Ayiana_Viviana: they're like, I
Rob Lee: was like, yeah, you know, I want something that's Caribbean. It's like, you are fucking. And it was a white person that I asked and she thought it was the funniest thing she's like.
Ayiana_Viviana: That is hilarious.
Rob Lee: It's like a filter of podcasts. I was like, I am. That is funny. This is the last one. This is the last one. So this is one that's a little deeper than, because I had to go with the bit. Now, here's the one's a little bit deeper. So often, art is about self-reflection and going deep. So what is something in the last, so far this year in 2025 that you've learned about yourself through your art?
Ayiana_Viviana: Mmm, that grief is a thing that will manifest itself as pain in your body. I had a very real experience where I kept having pains in my hands and I was like, why do my hands keep hurting? Why do my hands keep hurting? I was trying to soak them, like it's icing them, soaking them in epsom salt.
None of it was working. And then one day I was working on this painting and I literally just kind of set a prayer and I was like, show me what this pain is. And I had this recollection, this memory of my father calling me on a random afternoon and saying, like, hey, do you want to be the secondary beneficiary on my life insurance policy? Because out of all your six siblings, you're the only one that's trusted to be the secondary beneficiary. My mom was the first. And I was like, yeah, sure. And that memory came to me while I was painting this. And because of my separation from my husband, I've kind of been not really in contact.
My family's not really in agreement with how I'm living my life and the choices that I've made. And so it came to me that day as I was working on the painting that the pain in my hands was grief. And when I realized that, I was like, oh my God, this is, it was kind of a wild thing, because the thought that came to me was like, I wonder if I'm still his secondary beneficiary. Because I wonder if he still trusts me in that way.
I've made choices that he probably feels like, oh, I don't know if I can trust her anymore. And so then I realized that that was a form of grief. And once I acknowledged it and gave it space to exist and cried it out and finished making that piece, the pain in my hands went away. So my art showed me showed me that about myself that like pain can exist in our bodies. And it's not even necessarily that, you know, our physical vessels are have something wrong with them. But it's, you know, that that the emotions that we don't deal with that we try to hide or run away from will find a way to make themselves manifest and known. And sometimes it's through disease and pain. So physical.
Rob Lee: Ain't that the true sister? Well, yeah.
Ayiana_Viviana: That was a little deep. I mean, it was a deep question. So deep answer.
Rob Lee: I got a deep answer. And I appreciate that. And I value this conversation. This is a good way to get through hump day. It's today's Wednesday, right? It is. So there's two things I want to do in these final moments. So one, I want to thank you so much for coming back onto the podcast and having me.
Ayiana_Viviana: Yeah. And two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners website, social media, anything that you want to cover in these final moments where folks can check you out and stay up to date with your work. The floor is yours. Of course.
Ayiana_Viviana: So I am a Viana. I'm bad on social media is on my website. It's a Y I a and a V I V I a and a. You can find me on Instagram. That's usually where I'm posting about my like, you know, journey and the things that I'm doing artistically. Also my website, I am a Viana dot com where you can purchase my work. You can read my blog and check out my portfolio. And if you want to email me and have inquiries and want to work with me, I am a Viana. I do not.
Rob Lee: Today you have it folks. Only again, I think Ayanna Viviana for coming back onto the podcast and running it back with me. And for Ayanna, I am broadly saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it. Yeah.
