The Truth In This Art with Black Techno Matters Founder Bernard Farley

Welcome to The Truth in His Art. Thank you for tuning in to these conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I've got a great one. I am thrilled to have a Queens, New York born and Washington, DC based self taught, multidisciplinary artist and founder of Black Techno Matters.

What's that? You'll learn more during this episode, so listen in. My guest makes music under the moniker, output message. Please welcome Bernard Farley. Welcome to the podcast.

Hello. Thank you.

Thank you for making the time. And, I mean, I'm I'm seeing pieces of it. So shout out to the shirt, by the way. I like the color scheme. It's it's it's Chris.

Chris.

Thank you.

Yeah. As as we as we get started in this this pod, you know, and again, it's a pleasure to have you on here. I've you know, I feel like I was, like, searching around. I was like, don't reach out. I don't know what to say.

And then it's it's like you see that person you're interested in, you're like, I don't know. I don't know if they're gonna be interested, And he just shoot your shot. That's what I did with having you on this pod, so thank you for coming on. And, you know, introductions, the online thing, is really cool, but I like to give folks the space and the opportunity in these these introductions to share who they are in their most authentic and in their words. And I I learned a while back, I did an interview and someone someone just pointed out.

It's like, yeah, you forgot the most important part of me. I'm a human. I'm in this and that. I'm like, oh, okay. Cool.

And I was like, that makes a lot of sense. Like, that humanism is important, and a lot of time is stripped from us. So I was like, I'll do my intro, but always like to give the person their space to introduce themselves. So if you will, please.

Oh, oh my god. This is I hate answering this question sometimes, honestly. Sorry. Well, because, you know, it's a lot of times when people ask that question, it's they want like, I am this. And I just that's not that's not how I see myself, but I'm gonna I'm gonna try my best.

So, I mean, I I guess at the heart, I'm an artist. You know, if you if you get to know me, if you spend time with me, you realize I'm just constantly doing creative things, little and small all over the place. Dancing. I love dancing, dancing all the time. Music.

I've always loved music. Making music a lot. But you know what? There's a term I came up with. It hasn't caught on, but experienced artists.

That's how I think of myself is, you know, I like to craft experiences, whatever that means. A lot of times, I do craft my own experiences, and I think people should do that. You know, like, how do you how do you wanna live the next hour? Like, luxuriate in it. Live your fantasy if you can.

But also I take a lot of have a lot of joy in creating experiences for other people and, like, giving that joy to others as well. So it's probably the easy way to

do it. No. No. That's and here's here's the thing. Based off your your energy thus far, we were talking a little bit beforehand.

I mean, this is gonna be a great experience, so thank you, experienced artists. I appreciate you on that. No problem. So and and I saw a few because I you know, I have to follow you on a IG, and I was like, alright. I see.

So I was I was, like, I see the moves. I was, like, you know, a little intimidated. It's fine. So speaking of music, you know, let's talk a bit about that. What was the original draw for music for you?

Like, one of those, like, really early experiences with with music. What were you listening to growing up? And I have, like, a second part to that question, but I wanna at least give you the space there to to hit that first part.

It's been a journey. I mean, music is one of those things in my life where I just I don't know when it started in my life. Like, it's been in there. It's been there the whole time. My dad, is a jazz musician.

My mom loves dancing. But and she could she also has a voice, as well, but I think the real the moment I always come back to I was living in New York. So I was born in New York City in Queens. And, my parents were separated. My mom was dating some guys, and she she liked to date DJs.

And she would come home with these mixtapes. And then she would come home with all these, we had records. We had CDs, and she would she was going out. She would, you know, she she would go out and, but yeah. So there was actually all this there was, like, rare vinyls, like crystal like, a rare crystal waters, gypsy woman with, you know, like, the long edit that you you I don't even know where it is anymore.

And, and I would just be at home, like, dancing by myself, like, putting on a stereo, playing the tapes. So I was just, like, absorbing all this music, and I was huge fan of Mike Jackson. Like, I just like everything, all the dance moves, the singing, I would I memorized everything. And so that so it was like this interesting mixture of, like, of, like, you know, pop, Michael Jackson. It was the the DJ tapes from, like, you getting, like, New Jack Swing, some house.

But my mom was also she loved disco. That's what, you know, when she was younger before she had me, she was in the discos. So they had all these disco records. So that was all I mean, that that was just inside of me. So before I even knew I could make music, I was that's how I expressed myself to music was, was through dancing and just through movement.

And then, I think like around 6th grade, my grandmother bought me a keyboard, and I just I just started. And it there's a record button, and that was that was, like, the end of it. Like, and once I could record what I was doing, I've been recording music ever since. So

I I the visual you had there was almost like that meme when someone's typing a strongly worded letter. It's just like muppet hands. Just, and I I I I'll say, like, I've had this this relationship with music as I I have a little bit of a I'm a I'm a snob. I'm just gonna own it. And, a bunch of a lot of a lot of things.

Right? But, when it comes to music, it was one of those things that I had a pretty wide taste in in in music that I like. Like, right now, I listen to, like, neo class neo classical shred metal, which is wild right now. And, but also, there's a lot of it's kind of my gym playlist, but also it's like I'm listening to, like, romantic darkwave as well. So, you know, and those aren't considered black genres.

So and, you know, I'm putting the pen in that by the way, but, I'm saying going back to it, you know, I went to Morgan and we had, had, like, WEAA, you know, a lot of jazz music on there. I remember being younger and, like, man, what's all this jazz? I ain't really with all that. And now as I approach 40, I'm like, alright. Yeah, man.

I got, like, only jazz records in my house, which speaks to the musicianship and personalities, the characters, the artistry, all of that stuff that's that's baked in there. And, so and and a lot of them had long careers too. So and with it, it brings me to the second part of this question. We see that streaming as a way to kinda maybe change and shift how things are done, and I feel like Musa has just started feeling more like podcasters a little bit, just really looking at these numbers, not like The Record, but these these kind of artificial numbers. So in that climate and sort of the, you know, getting the the feeling, the payoff from someone enjoying your stuff, talk a bit about what continues to draw you to music.

Is it, you know, purely out of the love of making it, of of of stretching yourself, with, man, I'm gonna try this. Oh. Well,

I love I mean, I have to love it. Like, I don't make if if I don't get some sort of enjoyment out of what I'm doing, I'm just it's I'm on to the next. Like, I I can't even focus on it. So that helps me, like, filter out some stuff. But, you know, I think what's really driving me right now, I've really taken, so the Forrest Brown junior has a book called sorry.

This is Simon. So Boris Brown junior has a book called assembling a black counterculture, which really, like I mean, I have to I have, like, multiple copies just in case someone comes over and I'm like, take one, please. Like, you I also have a signed copy. No one takes that one. But, he used this term sonic liberation technology as in in reference to Techno.

Yeah. And and so I really I've really taken that to heart where what I'm doing is I I I feel like it needs to have some force form of liberation in it. And then currently for me, that's just I've gone wild with live improvisation. So really last, like, 3, 4 years, almost all of my tracks is just a live recording of me, like, go, you know, going at it. And and and that's the that's it's like it's like a craft.

And and so that just mastering that is is fun in itself to me. Like, building that confidence to be like, I'm gonna do a 2 hour live set. Let's go. And and and that that connects to the jazz. You know, it's funny because my dad, he's really into smooth jazz, which I was not a big fan of growing up.

I started getting into, like, experimental electronic music in middle school, and he hated that. Both my parents hated that. What I was listening to, like Aphex Twin Oh, yeah. That kind of stuff. But now with what I'm doing, I really I think it really is a form of jazz, funnily enough.

Like, I I think I ended up being a jazz musician after all, but it's with drum machines. You know, it's with synthesizers. And and so it's a in a in a way it's you know, now that I've honed that, it's when I you know, as soon as I step in front of drum machine, as soon as I start twiddling the knobs, it's it's a place where I can I'm truly just, like, expressing myself. And I and I'm just slowly removing all these barriers where I'm like, should I do that? Or does this does that sound right?

And I don't, you know, more and more, I'm just not even thinking about that anymore. So it's like, it's a place of freedom, liberation for me. And, and then the music I'm crafting, I use future drum circle is kind of like the the the phrase in my head. We had there is a I'm in a band. We're we're in a band called Future Drum Circle.

There's 6 of us. So we like we live we do we've done, like, a few sets, live sets. We're all jamming on our drum machines. But it's, you know, it's very it's music that's completely in the present. Like, everyone is is there vibing with each other.

If we have an audience, they're part of the performance. Right? Because they were, they were reacting to what we're doing. We're vibing off of them, you know, And, and I think that's another form of liberation, like music that not just enables me to feel liberated, but plus people in a place where they're and that, you know, hearing new sounds, new rhythms, but it's being played in a way that it's inviting them to to be a part of it, to explore it, to adventure with it.

The experience?

The experience.

Yeah. It's great. I mean, that's, you're you're you were really describing, like, how I feel when I'm discovering something new, like, sonically, which I make fun of. I there's some there's some music related bits that come up in conversation with my partner regularly. That's, like, sonically, because I remember we were listening to a guy that was being very pinky extended, very nose up.

I was, like, shut up. Don't lead off a sentence with sonically. You never do that. But, also, you know, from that perspective, you were describing, like, that feeling when I'm getting something. You know, it's like, oh, I'm picking.

I'm feeling this right now. It clicks and there's a feeling. I know I was talking with a chef earlier today about sort of those senses, like, those smells that you get, and you're like, man, I really wanna make that. I I smell it. And when I hear something, and maybe it's the same, but when I hear something, it takes me back to the moment that I first heard

of them.

It sets a mood for me. It sets what that experience will be. Mhmm. So I I I got this this this second well, this other question that is kind of the loaded question. Okay.

And I think you know what the loaded question is. Mhmm. Mhmm. So what is is black music?

I I love that question. Because it's I like to bring up this this stat that Michael Jackson's thriller was in the black music section. Like, it was the there was still when that album came out, there was there's a whole you go to the music store, all it was black music and then everything else. And that's changed now. But, so I think there's all there's already this kind of, like, perspective from outside, I think, the black experience of what is what is black music.

And and I'm not gonna talk about that. I won't I think from the eternal perspective is that it's not about that at all, that black music is rooted. And honestly, what keeps black what keeps black people here is this relentless, limitless creativity. Are I feel like black people have this magic ability to create not something, but to create magic out of nothing.

Mhmm.

Because because that's, you know, you know, being brought here as slaves, not just being brought here as slaves, like, cutting us down, cutting our families down, abusing us, beating us 100 of years. And we we still we I mean, Beyonce. Like, there's still there's still somehow, like, Beyonce exists. And to me, that's that's just a long lineage

Mhmm.

Of not of creativity, of perseverance, of persistence. And so I think 1 number 1, that's that's what you you hear in black music. But black music is also about communication, about the groove. I think it's about being locked in step because, you know, being, scattered, being distanced from our own ancestry. Yeah.

I find the groove is a place where we can all lock in. And and I think that's I think that's another important thing about black music. And then, and then you you know, we we're not only creating so many forms of black music, but we also ingest other forms of music and put our own spin on it. And, again, the creativity. So and, going back to the 4th Brown Junior, Sonic Liberation Technology, and you think of techno.

Yeah. And it's you know, there's this there's there's not this whole industry built around it. It's it's capitalized. It's consumer, you know, it's consumerist. It's transactional.

You can just pay a certain amount of money and get techno. Like, you can buy techno. You can buy a techno experience. You can but but, you know, the the originators, they were making that not because they want they wanted to make some money. They they made that because that was the creativity.

That was how they express themselves. That was how they lifted themselves out of where they were. Yeah. And how that's how they found alternate timelines. And and so at, where is it going?

So techno, you know, it's not about to me, it's not about, you know, being in a dark club, whatever. You go you go to those old tapes back in Detroit. People were dance people were like Soul Train dancing to techno because that's what it was about. Yeah. So so and and so, you know, that's kind of part of what black tech that matters is is it's it's like bringing the focus back to the origin you know, the original about black artists expressing themselves, about black artists.

What does the music mean to them? Where does it take them? Yeah.

So it's it's almost like a natural segue. It's almost as if you had the questions. So so so tell us about and you you were touching on the mission there. So tell us more about sort of the the founding and sort of that story of how it came to be, I would imagine, that it was kind of feeling a lack. It was feeling like, I don't know if this is around.

Let let me put my my hat in the ring. Let me get together my folks or what have you, or let me at least be the person that says, this is where I'm at. I'm putting my stake in the ground. Talk a bit about the the the founding of Black TechnoMatters and any anything else related to sort of the the mission that you wanna really, like, key in on.

Yeah. So, I mean, it started actually really simple. I just I I I just got, honestly, I got tired of being the only black artist on the lineup. Like, I just got tired of it. It's really, it was that simple.

And then and then I was, you know, I I was thinking, well, wait, where are the black girl? Like, where are the black techno artists? And I I Googled, you know, me thinking we have this powerful search engine. We could find all sorts of ramps though. And I could not find just a simple list, like 10, 20 names just in a row of black artists, black techno artists.

And I I searched for you know, I didn't find any immediate results, and then I was like, well, I gotta had a I was at my old day job. I had a little notepad next to me, and I was like, I'm curious what my work is right now. I'm gonna, like, sit here and and, like, I'm not gonna stop until I fill this notepad. And it was surprisingly difficult. And I honestly, I cheated a little bit because some of the artists had, like, pseudonyms or, like, side groups where it was I mean, it wasn't totally a different artist, you know, but I just I filled that notepad, and and just kept like, the phrase just came to me, like, black techno matters.

Like, wouldn't it be wouldn't it be cool if we had a party called black techno matters? So that's what that's really what it was. I, I created that logo. That was the logo was that was the flyer, basically. That was like the first party flyer.

It's just that logo. And it was simple. It was just like, we had 3 black DJs on the lineup. That was that was that simple. And people showed up for it.

And not only that people show up for it, people were, you know, thanking me for creating that space. And it was like it was so much that I knew I was like like, people people need this. People in and I don't think I was even prepared for how, like, profound just something as simple as having a party with all black lineups and consistently having parties with all black lineups like, would change me, would change people that got involved with it because, you know, when you when you when you're when you're a black artist and you're always that one black artist on the line lineup, you're not talking to people who share common experiences with you. They're not, you know, you're like, you're always trying to, in some way, prove whether or not you want to or intend to or you're asked to, you're the outsider. You're you you kinda have to prove yourself.

You kinda have to be like, I belong here too. And then you flip it and it's all black artists. It's it's it's a different environment. It's like, and, you know, we don't when we invite artists to play our events or do mixes or whatever, we never like, you need to play this. Or like, your techno needs to sound like this.

Like, like, play whatever you want. Like, express yourself and get a black artist together physically to do that. And that there that's the energy. It's it's it's collaborative. It builds community.

Like, you like what the other person's playing, you exchange numbers. You you you, you know, you can exchange information. And then that grows, you know, we've had so many artists who meet or connect through Black Tech that matters and and they're doing all sorts of things outside of Black Tech that matters. You know? So that's really that's how it started, and and it just it's just been growing and growing because, you know, it means a lot to people.

That's that's that's great. And I do this thing and this this sort of, search. I the what you were describing of having that notepad out, that is me when I'm looking at, alright, who am I gonna interview? And, you know, sort of this this sort of evergreen content, these these monthly theme, but also seeing what aligns with what I rock with, what I like, you know, and I'm the curator, I guess. And I know and, you know, with it, like, at one point, I was doing this podcast years ago called unofficially black, and it was just like, oh, there's no black people that do that.

So when you were described, I was having flashbacks. And, you know, and and really it came out of a a conversation I had with one of my buddies about, shout out to Greg, one of my buddies about, you know, going to wrestling shows and having, like, our peers around. Like, that's weird. Black people don't do that. I was like, what are you saying to me?

You you're bugging out. So hearing sort of that that search and not being able at that time to find a list of black and then we have we have roots in the in the in the genre in the scene, right, in the, in in techno. Right?

Techno. I mean, it's created by black people. It was created by black that's that was the part that blew my mind. I mean, that's and it's still I I still talk to people. I mean, it's it never stops where someone asks, well, what do you do?

What do you and I'm like, well, I do think black techno matters. And we tell people that techno is black music and they're like, what? It's either, you know, like mind blown. And some people know, you know, like, if you grew up in Detroit, you probably know. But like, there's there's just so many people, especially black people who just they have no they just have no idea.

So yeah. And I want to touch back on one thing, comment on one thing earlier, you know, and this is what I was trying to get at, but I kind of overthought what my point was. You mentioned, like, Michael Jackson earlier. Right? And diving back in and being able to revisit stuff, because you were here sort of the at least for me, it would be the rock centric stuff, the MTV really ready stuff.

And I remember going to that black album, that super like, dangerous is a new Jack Swing album.

Mhmm.

And just sitting there, I was like, yo, as a like I said, as a near nearly 40 year old, I was like, hell yeah. And, you know, I'd go in there, go home, you know, go into my my partner's place, and, I would talk to my to the dog there. I would just say, man, why you always tripping on me? And she would say, why are you why are you quoting Michael Jackson lyrics? I was like, look, let me live.

I was like, I'm I'm I'm having that experience right now. And I don't know. It's just that, but being able to revisit stuff that I I don't know how popular that album was at the time, maybe remember time or or something along those lines. But, you know, as far as some of the things that felt real, like, this is this slaps. Why is this for Michael Jackson?

Right? Why is this like one of those underappreciated sort of it ain't thriller or it's not it's not beat it or anything along those lines. And so I I was just thinking about it as sort of this, we're gonna give you the credit but also we're gonna lightweight bury it. Mhmm. So being able to re redis or or discover or, I guess, in some instances, rediscover and reappreciate some of these these these genres, it opens it up, more of these songs and opens it up to a larger genre, and it's like, oh, let me dive into New Jack Swing a bit more.

There may have been a party idea called New Jack O Lantern Swing, but never really went anywhere with it. So in that same vein of being able to explore and embrace what it is, like, I had this this idea about, just I I bang with black weirdos, and it's just like these these are my people. But for the longest time, you'd be told, no. No. No.

You shouldn't. That's not cool. Black people don't do that. I was like, I find that when I talk to someone who's in that scene, who's maybe Afropunk adjacent or in that sort of like, weirdo frame. It's like, I relate to them on all the levels.

So that that's just I don't know. It's just the community thing is really pulling that out of me.

Yeah. You know, that's part of the again, bringing black people together. Like, all it takes all it takes is you just gotta call that meeting. You just gotta give them give people a reason, and then you you realize you're not alone. And just I had just been black weirdos for a long time probably.

Right? Like, first thing that comes to mind is sun rock.

Like 100%.

I I mean, legit from different dimension. Right? Like, so I and I gotta I gotta tell you, so we have this playlist that, Blackness is Revolutionary, a Spotify playlist and it has, something like almost 1300 songs and curated. Yeah. It's curated by black artists.

It's all black artists, all black music. And, and it's kind of like the answer to earlier, like I

couldn't find a list. So now if

anyone is like, I couldn't find a list. So now if anyone is like, I can't find any black artists, just send them a link and, like, say, have fun. You can't even you know, it's like hundreds of hours of music. You can't listen to it all at once. It's it's like overwhelming.

But you scroll through it and there's all sorts of stuff in there. And and, you know, when when artists curate their selections for it, it's those tracks, like, you know, why you wanna trip? Like, why you wanna trip on me? They they I find we get a lot of those those, like, deep cuts. Uh-huh.

And, and then yeah. I'm I feel kinda spoiled because I get to, you know, I see all of it. And, and there's I mean, there's just so much. There's just so much like, woah. I had no idea.

I had no idea this this person made a track like that. I had no idea, you know, that, oh, a black person started that? You know, like like so, it's definitely there, but it it takes a little bit of work because it's a lot there's a lot of voices in society that try just try to shut you up when you try to expand how back black people can express themselves.

I'm I'm looking forward to that playlist. I wanna hear these, like, 17 minute maxi cut versions of well known songs. And so so in that, you mentioned the length, you mentioned the time. So I definitely have the key in on this one. So your creative output, that might be a pun and a bit in there.

You know, I'm a bit cheeky, but, you know, I see including your, yeah, 8 hour album, Love and War. That pushes boundaries. Right? So

Mhmm.

Could you tell us about sort of the this ambitious and this, like, impressive feat because, you know, I was talking about how many episodes I put out before we got started. I ain't gonna eat our elbow. You know? Just like, hold on. And in in in that talk about any boundaries, if at all, that you you you incorporate within your work because, you know, you see an 8 hour, that's a 3rd of a day.

Like, some people don't sleep 8 hours.

So Yeah. That's yeah. I don't sleep in 8 hours. Well, that I mean, that album is I mean, that's a pandemic album, number 1. So that that's like, that's me being in my basement a lot by myself.

Like but it's also it was also you know, it is it is you know, you talk about streaming and plays and all that stuff. And I, you know, I went through this whole right before the pandemic, I went there's this book, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism.

I

read that book and that changed the way I saw social media. And and honestly, it it bothers me it bothers me that pea that people our attention spans are are so short. And so there's almost a science to it. Like, if you get if you, like, look at how long, like, certain videos can be on social media, they'd limit it because they know no one's gonna watch it. Like, 14 seconds.

And then I'm like, damn. Like, I got 14 seconds to and so it's a it's a big creative implementation. But me, I like, I'm about the experience. And so it was almost like you're gonna you're gonna tell me to shorten my, you know, to shorten my tracks and make sure it's streamable and make sure it, like, well, I'm gonna go the opposite. You know?

There's that Beyonce lyric. Like, they told me go faster. I just go slower. You know? Like, and so and to me, it was also a sound of the times that that, like, it's it's chaotic.

Like, 2020, that's when I did a lot of the recordings for that. It was just so chaotic. There's there's, and and I was trying to, like, express that. I was just trying to really just get out some feelings about this, you know, these especially as a as a black person that you you have to keep your joy alive. Like, you have to you have to, like, it can get so heavy, but there's also all this shit sorry.

All this stuff happening, all all, all around, and you have it's you somehow have to make sense of it. You somehow have to, like, still get up and, like, do your thing and with and, like, the confidence with, like, thriving. Like, that's that's always my goal is to to do it that way. And so that 8 hour album is also just like, I I think if you listen through it, you can you could probably hear some of the feelings, some of the things I I was going through. But it's also, you know, I I it's it's a big album.

I don't know where to I mean, it's like I could talk about a bunch of it. Like, there's there's this one. It's a 4 hour track on it. I had to break it up because it's it the, like, direction limitations to, like, the file sizes for some platforms. But, like, it's a 4 hour live reporting where I just, you know, it was 20 think about 2020.

It was COVID. It was George Floyd. And, you know, 4 years later, I don't think it's I don't know how much better it is. But, like, I mean, it's I've it felt like war. It felt like the the common person is is is is fighting this uphill battle just to, like, live a a life.

And, and and so I was I just felt like I had to record this. I had to, like, get out the these these feelings, and and I didn't care if anyone didn't listen to it or or listed a whole thing. Although I some people have. Like, some people have told me they've listened listened to the whole thing. But, it's again, it's an experience.

It's I just want people to, like, feel to feel that, to, because you can you know, there's so many words on social media now. There's so many people that say all sorts of stuff. And so I also just really try to tap into, like, the feel, like, making people feel something, making something, like, visceral, something you can't necessarily express in words. And so I'm curious how that that whole thing ages, but that's on there. There's also a victory track that, you know, I recorded, I think a week after we did the March couple weeks after we did the March, here in DC in 2020.

And it was the last hour of my set, and it's it has this you know, so that's it's just it's all in there. It's and it was also kind of, you know, I told you I'm, like, honing the I was honing the craft of just performing live. So it real also, it's just kinda like you get to listen to my journey there of, like, some of the tracks are 5 minutes, some of the tracks are 4 hours. Like, you just I don't know. Take it or leave it.

So and also, the fact that things are streaming Yeah. Does open up a lot of things actually. Like, there were physical limitations to like CDs and vinyl. Like you couldn't having an 8 hour album pressing into vinyl was like, so it'd be so expensive. But, like, but you can upload it and stream it, just like just like that.

Like, you can just a matter of clicking some buttons. And so, like, what if people utilize these these new technologies, and, like, push the boundaries of that? Like, why not create an hour? Why why not create a 16 hour album? Like so

I mean, I I had this thing, this Guinness World Record idea. I was like, look. I wanna do a 24 hour podcast. Just have that thing rolling.

But I was like,

I'm gonna get bored. I'm gonna run out of stuff to say. I'm gonna start, like, yeah, man. This is the this is the dark portion of the pod. You know what I mean?

It's like, yeah, your my innermost, like, insecurities are just floating out in the middle of this podcast, you know. And and I think being able to sort of push those boundaries, like, to, like, my my playlist of what I wanna check out. And so I'm looking forward to it. And Nice. I'll I'll say this, there's there's 2 points on it.

Really you know, I was typing, you know, I'm always typing when people are talking. I was like, I got a really good point here, and I don't want to lose it. It's the jazz thing you were describing. It's just like jazz musicians. It's like, look, I get this is literally, like, I have a bunch of Charles Mingus albums here.

And it's like, look, I have 45 versions of, you know, fables of fathers where it is like that's what's there. And it's like some version slightly different, but the length is always out there. And speaking of length, I I remember having this conversation with my dad, the jazz he's a jazz guy, and he was just like, so help me understand the Ipod. Did, you know, they would tell you back in the day, you can hold this many songs. And I was like, that means they're telling me what the length of a song is.

I was like, it's probably like 3 and a half minutes. I was like, so whatever, you know, is this a jazz song and that song is 17 minutes. You're not going to have, you know, 300 of those songs on air. And he was like, oh. I was like, it's a size limitation.

But, essentially, they're saying a song is this length. So it was definitely one of those things. And when you say, I'm gonna do something different, that's that's also punk rock of you as well.

Yeah. I mean, why do you why do you have to limit my song? Like, why do you have to define what, you know, it it it gets that balance that and we all play this because, you know, content. That's everyone talks about content. Right?

Like and so it's hard not to start, like, putting limitations or, like, breaking up your expression so that it's more consumable. But, so I think as an artist, you at least I try to be mindful of, like, not getting to, like, not getting too used to that. Like, making sure I remember that, like, it doesn't have to be this way. You know?

And it's it's funny. And we may end up returning to that because I always like to, like, close out on just something that people can can take away. So I have 2 more real questions. Okay. But I didn't tell you about is I got rapid fire questions for you.

You've listened to this podcast and you check it out. You're okay. Rapid fire questions and people don't like a little bit. I see odor hydrating says all good. So We're especially black creators, creative thinkers, artists, the whole gamut, I think we're more than just one thing.

Right? For instance, I'm not just a podcaster. Some people won't even say I'm a podcast. I'm not just a podcaster. I I do other creative things.

I have many interests as I know you do. So talk a bit about sort of your photography background, because I saw that as well, and perhaps how that background may serve you or inform your music. How do they kinda, like, you know, serve each other, like having that background, like, I don't do photography. I like talking to photographers. I like talking to chefs because I'm a snob, but, I get those perspectives that somehow make these make for really good conversations.

I wanna hear that sort of those creative identities serving each other.

Yeah. I mean, I I got into photography just because I almost kinda had to. Like, I need to take some photos. Need and so, you know, I picked up some stuff, but, you know, I think, again, going into experience, it's a, you know, I like being aware of how things look, of how, how things can look if you you know, lighting, exposure. It's all to me, it's it's all it's all more like tools and parameters that you can use to craft an experience.

So, you know, some of the music on Love and War, there's a song on there called wake the fuck up. And and, you know, I I listen to the music, and sometimes I'll just get a, like, a a visual. I'll get, like, an image. And there's a video. This is I did a music video.

So it's it's actually 4 4 of me doing one take performance of this song. And, and it's just in front of, like, a brick wall. And then but it's just like I, you know, I just see it. You know, I just, I see it in it. And so a lot of times, like, for that song, to me, that is it's not just the song.

It's like you gotta see it with the video. Like, you have to, like, that's the full kind of experience of it. And so I think, you know, photography, videography can help kind of almost expand the depth of what I can deliver to, you know, what I can create in terms of like an experience of a piece of art. But it's also useful, like black, like, the matter stuff just in general, you know, like being able to create, take foot, take photos, like, our artists. I've taken some of the, like, press photos for some of our artists, you know, like, and so, it's also in a way, like, you know, I'm giving making sure it's it's it's them and and expresses them.

But this, you know, you can then you can also, like, kinda craft the overall long term kind of trajectory of how things look for something. So I don't know. I think photography is maybe you don't maybe you can't take a photo, but I think knowing how something looks is just especially now with social media and all that stuff is like that visual is really important.

Yeah. I I think in in working primarily in this audio medium, I definitely relate to that and trying to have, you know, excerpts. There's gonna be an excerpt for of of this interview, this conversation we're having that goes out there, and I struggled for a long time with, this isn't produced in this way and so on. And it's just like, just put it out there. Be fine with imperfect work and put it out there.

And people are like, man, I love the new format. I was like, it's not a new format. It exists already. It's just I just kinda got over my own insecurity about putting it out there, but it's something about seeing people engage in the conversation. It's realer, but it's the same conversation that you would get from the sort of audio experience and having the visual component.

You know, I've given it a little bit more juice. It's not to say that I was diminishing it. It was just I wasn't confident in it. But, you know, being able to put it out there, people are like, Oh, wow, you are really bald. I was like, Let me live.

Let Let me live for a second. Wow. Wow. Look at your cheekbones. I was like, again, now I'll take that, but let me live.

So so so here's the last real question, that I got for you. And it kinda, you know, we put a pin in sort of the the technology, the social media and being a creative, being an artist in that sort of climate. Could you speak a bit, you know, about any insights, any considerations, or just thoughts on what that looks like now in in 2024? And perhaps, you know, in it, something that is for a listener to think about. Like, if you're a creative person, if you're an artist and you're putting stuff out there because I'm very curious about the artistic expression versus the your content and being content, because I I struggle with that in doing this.

I think these conversations are important. I don't get all of my own ass about, this is an archive and blah blah blah, but it is, you know, really. It's capturing that sort of moment through these real conversations. So so speak on that for you, if you will.

I think I think it's actually it's an exciting really exciting time for artists because we have there's just so many tools we have, and a lot of them are free. Like, a lot of them, and they're not. And again, you have to kind of like think outside the box because, you know, at the second Instagram profile, right? Like, yes. Like, you're told you're supposed to use it this way, but you you don't have to.

It's it's still a series of pictures and videos. It's and you can create whatever you want for it. You can, like, I don't know. I wanna see more of, like, Instagram profiles. It's just like piece of art where you you just scroll through it and it's an experience.

And you don't need you don't have to pay for it. You could it's just a matter of putting in the work for it. And that's like something techno you know? But the spirit, I think, is is that it's not what you use. It's not getting out of the idea that you you have to use.

You know, if you wanna record an album, then you have to go to a studio. Like, this happened, like, years ago, but people started getting hits, just making stuff on their home computers. Right? And now we're that's like normal now. Right?

When I record, I, you know, I I have a vocal effects box, but recently, I might I'm I'm actually just a fan of plugging my mic straight into the to the mixer and just using, like, the the few effects I have that I that I have on there that I can use. And then it forces me to be creative with my voice to and so I I think also it's it's like we have all these tools, all these technological things that, you know, AI, if you wanna get it, if you wanna go there. And you can, you know, you can treat things really easily and but not, you know, not costing much money, but also not forgetting, like, the basics of, like, what can you do with a microphone? Like, what like, that's also part of being an artist and, like, marrying the 2 or or or playing with the 2, playing off, you know, different different levels of different levels of technology. And so and there's also, there's so many things artists can use that it's it really is up to the artist, I think now to make that choice of, don't think about like, what are you what are you supposed to use?

What what works with you? What speaks to you? How can you be creative with it? How do you do it differently? And and now we can search.

You can there's so many examples, you know, take what you see and and, you know, change it up.

It's good. Yeah. That's that's really good because, you know, the the notion of having sort of that artistic sensibility when you're utilizing that tool. It's just like, I I try to I I teach a class, and I try to talk with my students about that of, like, don't don't fall for everything. You see how to do it.

Add your own sort of layer to it. It's like learn the stuff and and and and, you know, be informed and be influenced, but don't just do literally the same thing that other people are doing because that uniqueness, that specialness, that goes away. And, you know, I think it's, like, apply sort of an artistic sensibility to using that tool and recognize it. It is a tool. Yeah.

And nobody here for the world too.

We did a we did a panel in LA cup I guess, a couple years ago now. And, and 92 Jelani was one of the artists. He's an artist based in LA. He's modular he does modular synthesis. And I asked the group, like, who's an electronic artist that's, you know, inspired you?

And he he answered so quickly. He said, Jimmy Hendrix. And I don't think people usually associate Jimi Hendrix with electronic music, but you you think about the tool he used, which was that I mean, he revolutionized the way people used distortion, and that and that is a form of technology. So I think that's a perfect example. Also, black music of the creativity with black artists of of taking something already there and making magic out of it.

Yeah. And, you know, you you mentioned the thing, it's it's almost what is it? Necessity is the mother of invention, all of that stuff.

Mhmm. It's like

the thing you were you were saying earlier. It's like, I just put my mic into Mixer. When I'm doing that, I try to keep it in in especially because I'm doing this this teaching thing now. I'm like, this is how I go about it, and this is how, like, I make it happen. And it might be just me putting it in there.

I don't need the most polished. It's kind of being found with the imperfect stuff or even in the editing and cleaning up process. It's not the, you know, the most fine tooth polish edit intentionally because I think something is lost from the actual conversations. Conversation is often that there are some homes in there, you know. And, I'm trying to take those sneezes out and those snorts because, you know, you know, you know, everyone is still still COVID still a thing.

All right.

So let me move into these rapid fire questions. I got 3 of them. And as I tell everyone, don't overthink these just, you know, they find that, you know, just Alright. Who is one of your favorite people to discuss art with?

I mean,

I I don't

talk to I haven't talked with him often, but DeForest Brown junior. I'm gonna go back to DeForest Brown junior. It was very intriguing hearing hearing him talk about. Alright. He has a really he makes music as well.

But he's it's, like, so informed. I mean, he's much more well read than I am. And so I just love to just love hearing how he, talks about music, how he talks about the process behind music. This is off top of my head. Yeah.

Yeah. That's great answer. Some people, I don't talk to anybody about art. I just I just know I'm making good stuff. It's like, alright.

That's cool. You get it. You're the greatest thing ever. This is a lighter one. What is your current phone background?

It is like I'm pretty sure it's legit.

It used to be what's your last Google search? And people are like, yeah. I can't I can't share that, bro. I said, Gribidating.

No. I'm not gonna I don't wanna I don't I don't know what it is. I mean, it's it's really like just the, like, stand it's like one of the standard backdrops, honestly. I was like changing photos, and I just got I don't know. I just got tired.

I was just like, I don't I don't know if I really I just want the I just wanna turn on my phone and get to where get to what I'm doing. So one less distraction. So so this this is the last one.

I I I was wavering on this one, but I definitely, you know, want to want to hear it from you. However you deem it, how do you what what is your rule for success? Like, some people will say the fact that I'm able to create. Some people will say that the fact that I'm able to make a living off of creating. Me, it's just I'm happy that I'm able to have the conversations.

What is, what is that role for you? What does success look like for you?

For me personally or just like in general for

For you. For you as an individual. For

me personally? So for me, I mean, success is a contentment. Like, it's not about, you know, the money. It's not about us having a certain kind of house. It's not about, I mean, to me, it's it's like, am I living a life where I wake up and I'm excited to to do more, to, like, to to keep going.

And not that it's easy Yeah. But that, like, I can go to sleep at night and feel like I'm honestly I like to live so that, like, if I died at this moment, for example, that, like, I think I did pretty good. You know, I think I like I think these are okay. You know, I I think I left something behind some good some good stuff, and and hopefully people remember me for a little while. To me, that's was that success?

It's it's like, we're given, like, we're given the life an opportunity to to do something. Doesn't it? We don't have to all do great things. Sometimes it's, like, very little things that make an impact. And then, like, hopefully, you live your life and you don't it's not perfect, but hopefully you do something.

And then you pass it you pass it on to the next one. And you just gotta keep it keep it going. That's it's not so success individually, but also, you know, I think about, you know, I hope I hope what I do has has had a life on its own as well. That's success to me too. It's a

great answer. And on that note, we can close out.

Okay.

So there there's, there's there's one thing I wanna do. Well, 2 things I wanna do. 1, I wanna thank you for for being on here, making a ton. This has been a great experience. Sam, I'm playing that game.

And 2, I wanna invite and encourage you to share with the listeners, website, social media, all of that good stuff. And I know we we we're weird with social media, but some websites, social media, all of that good stuff so they can, you know, stay on track, all of the happenings, Black techno Matters, you, output message, Bernard Farley, all of the things.

Share with me. Here we go. Okay. Blacktechnometersatters.org. Check that out.

Black technometersatters on Instagram. Check that out. Do you wanna follow me? Bernard, it's spelled all weird, b_x_r_n_x_r_d. Follow it.

Got music on Bandcamp. I got music on Spotify. I'll put message. I have a whole 20 year career. I'll put message tracks.

Go ahead and have fun with that. I also smoking tea. I make ambient music. Check that out. And, Future Turn Circle, there's still more in the pipeline for that.

Also on Instagram, Future Turn Circle. So I think that's most of it.

And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Bernard Farley, output message, from Black Techno Matters for coming on and speaking with us today. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.