Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth In This Art, your source for conversations at the intersections of arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee.
Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with a New York-based visual artist, performance artist and provocateur known for his politically charged installations and performances, including the infamous Trump Tombstone and the Satellite Art Show, an artist-run fair spotlighting experimental work. Please welcome to the podcast Brian Andrew Whiteley. Welcome to the podcast.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Rob Lee: Thanks for coming on. And again, this is one of these interviews that is sort of a reverse of my normal process. Generally, I reach out online, someone's like, who the hell is this guy hitting me up? And then we get an interview booked.
And then this is the first time I'm actually engaging in conversation. And I did it a little differently this time. I went to an art fair in New York and became aware of your work and then hit you up. So I slightly changed it up a little bit. So before we go into those details and get into that a bit more, could you introduce yourself, introduce your work? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah. So I live in New York and I've been kind of making art professionally, I would say actually probably after grad school. That's when I kind of really started, you know, I think becoming fully developed and realized in terms of what I want to do. And a lot of the art stems out of some type of concept that I really want to attack and approach usually provocative stuff, whether it's involving creepy clowns or political art or going after celebrities.
I've been able to find a way to kind of like poke people in the eye and also make commentary based on it, which I think is different terrain. I think is kind of like a spot where artists, if you can, really have a skill to kind of like really provoke things or to comment on society in some way. And, you know, I've done everything from performance art to large scale installations and to grill art projects. So in terms of like, like he's a painter or he's, you know, a performance artist, it kind of fluctuates. I feel like I kind of guided by whatever is interesting to me at the moment.
Rob Lee: That makes a lot of sense. And, you know, in doing the prep for this, you know, I was talking, whenever I'm very, very, very excited and having a little nerves, I get feedback from just different folks that I trust. And I remember speaking with my partner and I was like, yes, I'm talking to this dude, he does like stuff with creepy clowns. She's like, nah, cancel the interview. I like clowns. Immediately cancel it.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, that is a real thing. For sure. Yeah, that was the first at a large project I did with back in like 2013, 2014, which blew up and it really kind of gave me an knowledge base of how to like provoke things, stir the pot just like by creating like this. Like the, okay, so the project was like, I went into the cemetery and dressed as creepy clown and I had people photograph me and video me and I got that content and to build a narrative around it is really where the art is and people don't really see that. They just kind of see, oh, there's a clown in the cemetery, but it was numerous fake Gmail accounts and old school tumblers with different photos linking the clown back and back dating it to like 12 years. So when I started doing all the big Gmail accounts and talking to press and making phone calls, there was like stuff you could Google that substantiated my fake claims of seeing this clown in the cemetery and multiple content happening from different angles so that the press people thought that this clown had been in the cemetery for years, you know. So that was like pre fake news, me creating fake news and alternative stories and kind of like, in a way, as an artist at grad school, like, you know, you would do like a performance art piece and then you would kind of like think about where would performance art live after being in an academic setting and it's like, you could see sometimes like at a gallery in between shows or as a filler as fluff and it's not really given like the the highlight actually deserves or very rarely. So I was like, where can a performance art piece, where can where can you do it outside of just a gallery or this and that and that's like Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn was on my way to my art studio and I would pass every day and I was like, and it'd be cool to do performance art piece involving this cemetery and that's where, you know, me having a background as a clown and the cemetery and that contrast is kind of all fit and it people are scared of clowns and it's a celebratory figure in the cemetery and is he going for the visit of a friend's grave or is he there on some evil mission and it just blew up.
So yeah, really, you know, it was really absurd and really kind of stupid and like in that absurdity, there is some type of brilliance or some type of social commentary that can kind of happen.
Rob Lee: Yeah, I like that and, you know, it's funny, like I play with this idea of me exercising a few demons myself. I'm not a provocateur in a way that you're a provocateur and we're going to dive into that a bit deeper as we go along. But I'll say like there are folks that I interview and they do they do the artist talk and I think you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah.
And you're just like, can you just say it plainly for the for everyone here? And I want to do a podcast where I overdub and interview myself and I'm representing a particular artist that I have in mind. And I just say all of the kind of brainrod adjacent artist kind of talk in it. So I'm interviewing myself just trolling the things that I hate about some of the people I interview.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, I mean, that is a real fact. And I think when that art speak comes out, it's usually like, I think art should cause like a narrative and a story and people's input. And if it's not doing that, the artist tends to kind of like massage it into this like otherworldly kind of thing that's, you know, of merit, you know, to substantiate their own own delusions in a way.
Rob Lee: It's a bit of insecurity there. And I'm saying it purely is no particular person in mind as I'm saying that's a morphine amalgamation. But my first job, real life job, I was in marketing and that's a very jargon orient. And I used to sit there and hate it.
I was like, if I could stab myself in the ears with pencils, I would. And yeah, you know, business jargon, any of that. When the rubber reached the road and soup to nuts, I'm like, no, let's do something better. Let's do something different.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: I mean, I've had like the New York coast, which is right wing for keep my art. And they just call it the art of hate. And I loved that. You know, I was like, oh, that's a great quote, you know, I think getting those like regular people to comment in on what's going on is fascinating, you know? And yeah, when I did the clown thing, I think I had someone from Gotham say it's like, this is like the worst asshole ever. Like it's like the drug guy, the drug guy at a party barfing everywhere.
This is who did this artwork or who did this performance? And part of that might be you're in some way. Like it is not like people don't do that type of stuff. And whatever, I think that's that's fair enough. You know, I'm willing to make fun of myself about these things, you know?
Rob Lee: And, you know, there's a certain degree of fervolousness there is like, take what you do seriously, the sort of merit, the approach and how you're doing your work, but sort of the persona and all of the other stuff around it. It's just like, I didn't take myself down a peg. Like, you know, I was sharing with people, I just did a talk the other day. And one of my ways to diffuse nerves is like a room and there's like a bunch of people in there. I was like, yeah, this is being cast out there.
People are saying this. I was like, oh, come watch me bomb. I wish I wore my black suit because this is my funeral.
I'm going to die right here. And I didn't try to make it into a bit, but generally I think about it, you know, when I'm out there, it's just like, I'm not taking myself too serious. It's like, I'm a podcast. I talk and I, you know, I'm serious about what I do. But really it's just like at the end of the day, doesn't really matter. No, they're asking for this. Yeah.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: I mean, we, I think we package these, this, this content that we're making in smart and attractive ways. We want people to engage in what we're doing. And most of the time we struggle with it doesn't even matter what that was. The absurdity of this all. Like, so yeah, I totally get that.
Rob Lee: So I want to go back a little bit because you, you're touching on sort of working across multiple forms and not being pegged in one particular area. See drawings, the video installation performance for you. And in short, there's ones I'm forgetting or even ones that you didn't even mention, but for you, what was your first love creatively? What drew you to it?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Oh man, this is, this is like the, the best because I mean, I used to love drawing. Like I drew like a madman and I had this like little shack behind my parents' house and I would go in there and draw for like days and I would try to bring in my neighbor friends in there and draw. And I was at the same time, like really big into like comic books.
And I had this, like, I had this, all of these comic books and it's like, I guess like early nineties and mid nineties, like Marvel comics I was into. And I also had this tracing paper, right? And so the trace papers, you know, if you don't know, you put it on another drawing and you can draw it perfectly. And so I was practicing that on top of some of these Marvel characters, right? And I started tracing over these female superheroes and realized that if I didn't draw in their superhero outfits, you basically had naked drawing of a woman. And then I knew I had this superpower and I was like the drug dealer in the neighborhood. I was like, hey, you want like, and I was, I got in trouble for it, you know, I got in trouble, but there was something gritty and something like magical that happened. And it was like a switch hit in my brain.
And I was like, oh, man, you can have this strange power with this art, you know. And that's the kind of like, from there, it's just always been there. It's just been a skill and an exploration. And there was, you know, it's evolved over the years. I mean, when I was in grad school, like one of my professors, like everyone in this class is going to be naked at some point, whether it's on a video.
In a photograph or in front of the class. So that was like the semester challenge, you know, and I'm pretty sure that you would not go get away with that anymore. But it made you start thinking about exposing yourself, you know, and just like different breaking through different layers, if you will.
And I think that those are like really powerful things that should maybe have to go through as an artist, like really expose yourself. I mean, you open the criticism, be a bear at all. Like, yeah.
Rob Lee: I mean, I know that you've made a bear, some things working on some ceramic projects, and I'm currently not wearing pants as we're recording. So, you know, I'm really just total. Also, also worth noting, when I was younger, so I wanted to be an illustrator. Yeah. I used to, it's like early, early entrepreneurship. I was like, all right, I know I'm smart enough. I can get a B on here and kind of half-ass this assignment or this test. I would knock out a test and I would sit there for the remainder of the class and draw pictures of like Wolverine and then sell them to the other students. I was just in there, just hustling. I got them comics, got that Jim Lee, which you need.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Same thing. I had girls buying my comic books and this one girl got in trouble from her dad. Her dad was a copy of, she was stealing money from him to buy comics. And then dad came to school and I got in trouble. And I was like, I felt like a badass, you know, I was scared, but I was like, oh man. But yeah, you used to sell art, like hustling art and hustling your drawings, like in elementary school and middle school and yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Rob Lee: And sort of the converse to that first love, there is also sort of that heartbreak, that first heartbreak creatively, like was there a project that didn't work or maybe changed in a way that you saw yourself differently as an artist? I joke about doing this, that a podcast are nearly 20 years and I talk about as being the most stable relationship I've had and there's a doubt obviously in relationships, man, I'm going to marry her. Nah, she hates me. That's my relationship with podcasting. So what was the heartbreak for you?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: I don't know if it's like heartbreak. I think that there's, I think it's just kind of like a grown acceptance of like career and where, how the world works maybe. Some projects that hit better than others, some things, some, sometimes you realize your art's really not for commercial gallery, you know, but you come to terms with kind of who you are and, you know, find ways to do the things you love on a project. So I don't really know if it's like one project in particular. I think it's just been like, I like to say that like my career is kind of like a ship in the ocean, just like going in one direction and objects hit against it but, you know, I deflect them the whole time. So it's like, I think just trying to find ways to keep being creative. You know.
Rob Lee: When did you have the realization and maybe it's a, maybe it's a set of experiences, maybe it's any particular project or what have you, realize what mattered to you as an artist? You know, I shared with you like the sort of beginning, the genesis of doing this was purely out of like spite, like you're not going to talk a lot about my city and let me try to just prove it through their interviews and try to have something that is artistic and married and documentary and married. And so that was the intent there.
And I continually grow, but the root is still the root of coming from, from that position. So it was there like, Hey, I'm going to go in. I'm going to really speak on these sort of topics. I'm going to approach it in this way. I want to be provocative. Was there a point where you're like, Yeah, I think this is the lane for me. I don't know.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: I mean, the, I like the, the biggest impact project I did was when I made the tombstone for Donald Trump. And that was, you know, that was really hard. Because I had to like make sure that legally it was doable.
I was married at the time and my ex-wife was not, didn't really want me to do it. I also had to raise the money. I had to like, I sold some artwork. I had to like scrounge, kind of figure out how to get this thing made.
So there's like a lot of doubt and a lot of up in the air and the whole process of that. And this is when he was like running for president the first time. I want to selling some art to a guy and he wound up being like a medical, medical marijuana guy and he just had to have extra cash on him. And so I sold him some art and I'm like, Hey, I really want to do this project.
I told him about the project and he gave me the money and I went over to this tombstone shop and got the, the, picked out a tombstone and picked out a tight face and had this tombstone made. And that was like a terrifying thing. And I mean, that impetus was like just how, how horrible I felt Donald Trump was talking about people and he was talking about, you know, the Mexicans are rapists and all sorts of just like absolutely like, I felt like completely un-American things. And I felt like, I don't know what to do.
Like I could go carry a sign and, you know, put a flag in front of my house. But I was like, just like thinking in my head, like the only thing this asshole cares about is himself. And maybe if I foreshadow his future, they could, he would actually see it, you know, and they have this pick-and-thin, like, Ghost of Christmas future type thing happened to him, some foreshadowing. And sure enough, like got it made. I put it in Central Park on Easter Sunday in 2016 and full-blown Secret Service investigation happens and I'm like, I think it was like a three-month investigation till they tracked me down. And I got interrogated by Secret Service and put on a watch list and there's a whole, whole process. And it, it showed me that you can be impactful. You can't really make messages heard. I definitely got a ton of death threats from that project and still do. But yeah, was that an answer?
Rob Lee: No, no, no, no, it was. I think what I was hearing in it is like, you made this, you made this Tim's though, you, you had like a point like, I don't like what the rhetoric is. I don't like what this guy is saying. I don't like what's coming from him. I think he's un-American. I think it's bad for the country based on just some of these things, it's poking at something and sort of this, you know, hey, this could be your future Ebenezer Scrooge. Take a look at it.
And then having the other side of it, the, the controversy around that, of having sort of the Secret Service and being on that watch list. I did, it makes me think of this. And then when I saw that, because that's one of those questions I had later, but I'm glad we recovered it now. When I saw it initially, it reminded me of this creative mornings talk I did back like three years ago and I've gotten, I did this thing, this podcast is called the truth in this art. And I try to get past some of the, Hey, this is the nice stuff.
And it's like, you know, real stuff. So when it was two groups, it was creative mornings, and then it was a group through like Ted X, the folks from Ted X reached out and they asked me, why'd you start the podcast? And I told them, why the same thing I share with you. And he said, could you remove the Trump stuff? Right.
Put in a whole different reason for why you did this. And I was like, what would you have in mind? Because I'm curious. I don't know what my story is. You know, maybe something like you just really felt you wanted to cover art in Baltimore. I was like, that sounds wack actually. And I respectfully declined. And when I did the creative mornings talk, I was very nervous about it. I wasn't sure how to go about it. So I was like, what I know how to do is interview people. So let me just interview myself. And I took these different quotes about truth. And then I used that and did an anecdote to each, you know, quote. And one of the ones that sticks out is no one is more hated than the man that speaks the truth. And that's what I was thinking of when I saw the Trump Secret Service stuff with you. Yeah.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: I mean, the, the, the larger challenges that like my, um, especially my father has gotten, he got Fox and is then he is like a lot of right wing. People, family members that it's, when you make a tombstone for their man, you know, like you put yourself out on the ledge, like I'm on an island. And it just like, it makes like everything else just harder. And it's like a sad, it's like, it's like a, something I'm proud of, something that makes me sad is something that when I did it, I didn't think I would get it back from police. And now I have a 500 pound granite tombstone that I've traveled around.
The U S with it's like this, it's this, when you, it's like this cross that I have to bear now. And it's been in Baltimore actually. Uh, it was at the Baltimore Museum of Art for their print show. Um, cause we do like, um, grave rubbings of it. So we put, uh, we put a Japanese paper on it with my print publisher and we rub a, um, a disc on it and we create the beautiful relief of the actual tombstone. So it's traveled a lot and, um, it is a volatile piece of art. And before this recent election, I was showing it in New York and that's when the New York Post came and, um, I had art news come and I had other outlets come and, and they were more understanding of it. And then, um, the New York Post came and they're a Rupert Murdoch.
Organization and that's when he wrote that this is the art of hate and he made it, he made it sound like I was calling for his direct assassination after there was an assassination attempt and, uh, I got a lot, a lot of, uh, messages and death threats again. Um, but I don't know. I feel like that, that's. That's part of being an artist in a way.
I feel like you make your statements however you can. I don't think receding into watercolors at the moment is always a great idea. Maybe it's an escape. Maybe it's an escape.
Rob Lee: But I think it's important to be able to have something that you're standing for. People talk about when history will show that I was on the right side of it or whatever the thing might be or that history will show that I had a point that I stuck to my guns as it were. I think in looking at some of the work that you've done that you've stayed experimental while gaining this recognition.
You were joking a moment ago about the watercolors. Some folks recede. I think about doing this and not just doing the fact that, hey, let me just talk to people who are famous. No, I'm talking to people who catch my interest and I'm trying to always outdo it and stay sort of in a lane that I think is mine, but often making my own lane, often widening my own lane. Through your work and through running the satellite art show, that's another thing I want to talk about.
Talk a bit about satellite art show and the value of experimentation in your process and sort of building a platform for other artists to kind of experiment and broaden things because we all can go backwards into watercolors. Yeah.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah. Satellite is, I guess, a response to the big money art fairs. So kind of like when you came to New York, your friends recommended going to Spring Break, which is a lot closer to the creator and the creative process. Satellite is artist run. It's an art show that we do in Miami during our basil and that's what we've been mainly doing and it was started as a counterpoint to our basil and our hashtag, the hashtag not basil and which they sent cease and desist letters to us on, which is fine. But the first few shows of that were in an abandoned hotel on the beach and the ethos will express yourselves as boldly as you possibly can and we wanted each space to have installations and a concept. So, you know, it allows for people to kind of really get into the artwork, a lot for people that really express themselves.
These were abandoned hotels so you could literally do anything to them, including cutting holes through the walls and spray painting. It was anything else. It was such a critical moment for me just to see the energy and the transformation in the power and letting people do them and it got a ton of great press and coverage and it was like not a moneymaker purposefully. It was a show, not a fair that was important to separate us. But it became a thing like, okay, we need to do this.
How do we harness this energy? The hotels aren't available anymore now. We're troubleshooting shipping containers in an empty lot, shipping containers on a beach. Random spaces in Windwood, you know, we kind of popped up and troubleshot like a lot of different, really difficult, permitting things and architectural drawings. That's because if you're a big fair, you have the money to kind of get your established venue and then the booths cost X amount of money for the walls and the lighting and for all of the special privileging that happens for the upper class. All of that creates a very much of a trade show environment where a satellite is pretty much like a studio and with a focus on young galleries, collectives and artists.
So it's maintained its vibrancy. We have done additions in like Austin, Texas and in New York. And now we have a little gallery in the Lower East Side. It's the former Majan Parler that we got and it's this beautiful little spot in the Lower East Side on Broom Street where we do programming and so we have launched that space with 30 art shows and 30 days and it was selecting people from satellites back history and just giving one day each. And so we had an opening for 30 nights in a row, which was pretty amazing. And we just thought, you know, we've been doing this for 10 years. It's a great way to kind of like pull some people from the back catalog, give them one night and to get everyone, let everyone know that we have this new spot.
And you know, there's like, for me, I don't come from any money or background like that. And for me, like walk into, walk across the bridge from Brooklyn to Manhattan and go to that gallery is like one of like the best things like, you know, in my life.
Rob Lee: Yeah, I may have popped over there when I was up. I stayed in LAF, actually, and I did a lot of walking, a lot of traveling and sort of each time I'm looking for sort of the outside of the normal sort of touristy or as I was saying earlier, hey, you're invited to go to these things. I was like, oh, invite invitations are cool. And I try in many instances to go to the thing I'm invited to. Someone personally invited me to a thing. It's almost a rule is like, you should go, you know, they went out of their way to do it.
And it's not the goofy sort of mass email. I bought those. I don't like those.
But the only that feel like they're individual. And, you know, as I said, you know, when I went up and it was, you know, to check out like spring break and again, just the fact that the fact that you and I are having this conversation right now, I was impressed by a lot of the work that was there and definitely pulled out the little notepad like like some type of jerk. And put down Brian and got him. Okay, hit him up and then going through this. I'm a lot of different people and it's something that I feel like I was losing, you know what I mean where I've done a lot of interviews and for to go to a different place and go there for something that I do yearly and do a different version of it. It's like, yeah, I'm going to spring break every year. I'm going to some of these things that are, you know, referred to me by I think my people every year and doing something that's different.
I'm blanking on exactly what I size. Remember one of the spaces that I went to just in my travels in the Lower East Side was this small like studio was like a film about maybe the wall was coming down. I forget. I think I know it was in Europe and it was just sort of dance culture during that time. And I was like, this is wild. This is a unique video and all of this. I was like, what else is happening here? And it's like, that's kind of it.
That's the exhibition. I was like, oh, this is different. And I felt like I remembered the experience and being there and being there for this and it didn't need to be more or less than what it was, but it was part of that sort of full three or four days.
I was up sort of experience. And those are the two quote unquote art. Well, two of the three art things that I did. The other was one of my friend shows.
So I didn't do the bigger fairs and go to the ones that have the cloud and the names attached to them. So when you you mentioned the cease and desist sort of like hashtag that you guys use a podcast that I used to do. It was called MTR, MTR the network. And there was another podcast that started maybe a year after mines. They had a host. And I was like, I feel like these dudes are getting our traffic. And I started just doing the search. And I was like, that branding looks like ours. I was like, are they trying to? So we started using the hashtag me and my co-host at the time, not those other guys. That's what we did tonight.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: No, I mean, the our basil sued me the art Miami semi cease and desist letters. My own art. I had Justin Bieber seems and me cease and desist letters and suing me for a while. So I'm not. I those are like kind of like badges of honor.
Rob Lee: You know, just put it on your CV sued by this person.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, for real. I don't know. I don't understand following the same formula of some somebody else like that. You know, so, you know, someone was trying to follow you, you know, it's so weird.
Rob Lee: Like you were recording this about a week removed from Father's Day. And I see now when I'm going to talk about shit a little bit, I see, you know, sort of so many different podcasts here locally who are really biting off of what I do. And that's just like, I'm kind of you guys with that. You just give me the point. Just give me the point.
Because it's like, no one was paying attention to it or and, you know, and I say that with the degree of modesty, but also sort of the reality is it's like, no one was talking about these different things and just seeing it. Now this person is doing and they're doing it better than anyone else. And it's like, you can look at the stamps, you can look at the timing and see what's being done and sort of, you know, having the having the when I think of when I think of some of your stuff, it's like Balzy. And I think of that same approach. It's like you're using your funding, you're using, you know, putting your relationship at risk. Sometimes you're, as you said, you're getting death threats and all of these different things to really push forward. Like this is what I want to do. This is what I want to do and everything else kind of be be damned what comes with it. It's a badge of honor, you know, getting food. Cool. What's happening tomorrow? It's something about being able to do that and persevere and kind of continue. Yeah.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Absolutely. I mean, the first few times I was scared.
Speaker 3: I looked on the things.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: But then like, you know, I think, you know, most people don't want to go where I go and some people stop after the first legal letter. But I've kind of, I've made friends with lawyers. I mean, with the tombstone, like I had legal counsel with that and I was working with Ron Poobe, who's a pretty famous civil rights lawyer and First Amendment lawyer. And, you know, there's a whole process with getting the tombstone back from the police and dealing with police. And, you know, you kind of need to know your rights as a citizen to be able to pull off some of this stuff.
So it's like, a lot of people don't know what their rights are or that they have a right to their speech. And I mean, for that tombstone, I was under Secret Service investigation and I had the detectives looking for me and going to all the tombstone shops in the area until they found the one that I had worked on to get this tombstone made. And they gave me up. But that was months.
And I was scared the whole time. After dealing with my lawyer and dealing with the police, like everything I brought brought down to like a littering fine for the tombstone. And I'm not allowed to go near politicians and I'm on a watch list. Like those are the things that happened to me really. And even the, even the watch list, that seemed like a bit extreme, but there wasn't anything that we could do about that. But it really was only a littering fine. Like even if a 500 pound littering fine.
Rob Lee: And that's one of the things like, you know, I like that you touched on is like kind of knowing what your rights are, what your law, what the law is, you know, and a lot of times we're operating due to fear. We're, you know, here's a piece of information. We didn't really read it or we didn't know or, you know, the subject of said tombstone loves people who are dumb. So, you know, it's something about that and just not well read, not just aware.
And before I move into this next question, I remember it was something I was following on Instagram and this guy, he debates people who are in the right and really far right. And it just shows minimal effort. Just like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. You're just part of a cult.
Yeah, totally. Jesus like, he's like, so what do you like about the, the, the constitution? He's like, I like the original constitution. He's like, Oh, like which parts? And the guy started mentioning amendments and he's like, do you know what the word amendments means? I mean, those changes from the original thing that you love so much. So do you like the new or do you like the changes because it feels like you like the changes?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, you like women's right to vote, you know, and you start like actually going through things, they start like getting nervous. They really don't have a clue. It's kind of a, it's a feudal project to kind of like try to break, break through that wall. I feel like, like you said, it's kind of like a cult. Yeah.
Rob Lee: So there's two more questions I want to, I want to hit you with. I want to talk about a couple, see an evacuation plan and it was like these, these dot paintings that caught my attention. Could you tell us a bit about the two of those? I believe I saw both at Spring Break or at least one of them, but remember those popping up in my research.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, they, that show, all the evacuation plan. I submitted that to their LA show. And it was basically these paintings in a room that was on fire and it was about the art you kind of lose when your house burns down. And then LA caught on fire and that show was canceled.
But they, they said that they still wanted to show that series and that project in New York. And so I was down to do that, but it definitely was right on the nose conceptually to what happened. So it was like, it was very bizarre to, to, to, to present the installation in full. And the installation had my, my dot paintings in the back and it had the flames on the ground and it was in a wood room that I had made. And yeah, the, the, the dot paintings themselves are, they're actually kind of doodly drawings of plushies and they are kind of abstracted with the dot process.
So they're like plushie and furry costume characters. But when you use like the dot process, they kind of create this unique rhythm to them. It's almost like an early Microsoft paint pixelation or almost graffiti writer quality.
There's like a vibration effect that happens with them as well. So it's in that, that goes paintings were after doing like hundreds of tests with different colors and different ideas and just kind of like creating the visual. As we were doing art speaking now, Brian, it's created a nice rhythm in my eyes, but I really, it was really effective and really silly and the underlying characters were like furries and plushies. So a lot of people came to the work and thought they were looking at some type of unique abstraction. And then when you looked closer, there was like faces in them and characters involved. So it was like a whole series of people looking at you while you were looking at, at them, if you will.
Rob Lee: Yeah, no, that definitely tracks because again, like as I was saying, like I was there for like 40 minutes and I was just like, what's capturing my I was like, let me do a speed run. And I was definitely there was it was it was sort of the colors. And then when I saw the the images online, I was like, oh yeah, I do remember those. I was like, oh, right.
I do see faces. I was like, yeah, something else is about this that and I just looked at my notes. And I was like, okay, definitely at least ask about this because you're curious about it. But I didn't know that piece about it was originally going to be in LA. So that makes it even more.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, she was pressing it and unfortunate.
Speaker 3: But that's how things go, you know, but yeah, that that show I was really excited about and I had those ceramic pieces in as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee: So I do have this one last question before I have to do these rapid fire questions. Because I'm getting all of my stuff in. I got to get all of my stuff in. So lastly, we were joking about sort of artist speak, right? Artists often asked about the challenges about these challenges they face all the time on a flip that what does success look like for you? Like how do you recognize those success those wins? You know, often it's well, I had this, you know, this show or I made, you know, sold this or what have you, but you know, how do you celebrate the successes? Could you share a recent success that really kind of clicked for you and how'd you celebrate it?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: That's a good question. I think if you're, I mean, for me, like I don't really quantify success regarding any type of sale. I think maybe success is kind of like hanging out with your art heroes and be working with them. Creating new content or disrupting things is success. I think success happens in retrospect, you know, like, and if you are too focused on that, like maybe it's not going to come to you. I feel like you must be way deep in projects and meetings and doing crazy stuff, you know, and that is success for me. And that's what I've been doing for years, like always thinking about that next project.
And I've been lucky to do that. And I think that's that success. Like, like I said earlier, when I, after nine years, was able to get a gallery in Manhattan. That was just years of building and building and building. So that was like, that makes me really proud. And it makes me proud to give shows to artists that I love. That's amazing.
I'm going to go hang out with the LDS next week. And he was a graffiti writer with Bostia. And that's great. And we're going to do some stuff together. It's just, those are beautiful moments. And yeah, I was trying to push for the next thing. And that's that. Yeah.
Rob Lee: I echo that same sentiment just, you know, in a small way. Every interview that I'm able to get is a success for me. You know, you could easily just say, nah, who are you? But you said, you said yes.
So that's a success for me. I want to move into these rapid fire questions and, you know, kind of in the same way I described my period of time at spring break of the speed run. These questions are speed or are those the first thing that comes to mind? You don't want to overthink these. Okay. All right. So here's the first one. What is something small or maybe mundane that keeps you grounded while working on ambitious or even, you know, very provocative projects?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: That's a tough one. I guess my budget. Like for real. Budget.
Rob Lee: Yep. As an unfunded independent podcaster. Yeah. I can only afford about 75. Yep. You mentioned this earlier in the beginning. So I got to ask what Marvel character did you relate to as a kid?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Oh, I was like you. I was a Wolverine. I had him with my number one and then I liked Cyclops, but it was not really there. Yeah. I was a Marvel X man. I love the age of apocalypse. That whole thing. Yeah. I dig it.
Rob Lee: Also, I have to ask this one as well because you have one of these. What makes for an interesting artist statement?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Well, I think you saw in mine, which I was trying to deviate as far away from art speaking away and that one, there is, I was in Austin, Texas and this, this, I had met this girl and she wrote me a poem with the little things she knew about me and had something to do with aliens and Bigfoot and this and that. And so I kind of, I liked the poem and then I like added my own flair and I just have a poem as my artist statement. Why not? And so I liked that, you know.
Rob Lee: I dig it. And I actually did a series of interviews in Austin the first time that I left Baltimore to do work. I did like seven interviews in Austin. I was like, I think I should go back for a round too. It was how to shoot those there though. It was like a hundred and six degrees. I was like, I'm not seeing off my ethnicity. I'm going to be a different dude when I get back, but it was an experience there. And this is the last one.
Due to one of the things that is in your background, I think you'd be very, I think you'd be a strong person to know this. Who is the biggest clown you can think of right now?
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Well, he bleached blonde hair and wears Cheeto dust makeup and he's the current freaking president and he's not a regular clown. He's an ass clown. So he's the biggest clown and we all got to live in his circus unfortunately. So, you know, if you're out there listening, cause some trouble, good trouble, you know, express yourselves. So it's all one way to get through it.
Rob Lee: All clowns, no kings. Thank you for that. I wanted to throw that softball your way. So in these final moments, there's two things I want to do here. I want to thank you for spending some time with me coming on and just revealing and sharing. It's a lot to be covered and I appreciate the time. And secondly, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can follow you and check out your work and what you have going on in your world. The floor is yours.
Brian Andrew Whiteley: Yeah, I'm on Instagram and Brian Andrew Whiteley. And you'll see there's a couple of projects in my, my bio there that you can link out to and my website. Brian Whiteley art.com where you can see a whole bunch of fun projects on there. And if you're in New York, our little gallery is at 279 Broom Street.
And the website for that is satellite dash show.com. You can check out upcoming exhibits. And we have a new shop we're launching. So if any artists out there want to have their work in a shop through satellite, that's kind of the next move on that front for us. Yeah, those are, those are all the wonderful things that I'm up to.
Rob Lee: And there you have it folks. I want to again, that think Brian Andrew Whiteley for coming onto the podcast and giving us a peek into the process and to the background and to some insights and for Brian, I am Rob Lee family. There's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look forward.
