Bruce Willen: Embracing the Intersection of Art, Design, and Music

00;00;10;09 - 00;00;29;16
Rob Lee
It was the conversation we had and yeah, I forget what we talked about and we got really weird at the end, but it was like weird in a good way. Like funny. Like when I do the rapid fire questions, sometimes people just go on a weird tangent and it's like, Okay, I'm gonna keep all of that in this, so and I'm not going to do it.

00;00;29;21 - 00;00;36;07

But it may happen because every time I looked up your name and typed your name and it kept autocorrect and Bruce Willis and I was like, I refuse.

00;00;38;06 - 00;00;54;17
Bruce Willen
Well, to be honest, when when you first messaged me, I was like, Wait, Rod Lee the Baltimore Club. Thank you. Because I was like, he wants to interview me. And I'm like, Oh, it is Rob with Jennifer. That's great. That's great. Actually.

00;00;55;11 - 00;01;06;02
Rob Lee
It's funny, I had his interview a little while ago with this, the sheriff out of cities and he was just like, so when is Rod Leigh and Rob Lee doing a podcast together?

00;01;06;13 - 00;01;06;26
Bruce Willen
Yes.

00;01;08;01 - 00;01;30;01
Rob Lee
If I can make that happen. I've reached out a few times. If I can make that happen, we're here for it. We're here for it. Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee, and my next guest that I have the privilege of being in conversation with is a multidisciplinary designer, artist and founder of Public Mechanics, a design and art studio working in public and cultural spaces.

00;01;30;06 - 00;01;33;06
Rob Lee
Please welcome Bruce Willen. Welcome to the podcast.

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Bruce Willen
Hey, Rob, thanks so much for having me. Really excited for this conversation.

00;01;38;01 - 00;01;54;13
Rob Lee
Yes, I am looking forward to it. Looking forward to chop it up, spinning a yarn as it were. So before we get too deep into it, could you could you share, like your story, your first experience with art, design or even music? Because, you know, that's another thing I didn't I got to admit it from there a little bit.

00;01;54;22 - 00;02;02;21
Rob Lee
So speak to me about that. Share a little bit about about your story and what kind of led you to maybe your current work.

00;02;03;09 - 00;02;26;03
Bruce Willen
Yeah. And I think, like, it's one thing that I have. I feel like in my career I've sort of previously like really separated some of these different aspects, like siloed the sort of art and design and music from each other and I feel like is my more recently I've been sort of embracing all of them and saying like, Oh, it's okay to have more overlap.

00;02;26;03 - 00;02;50;12
Bruce Willen
And I'm not totally sure why I wound up doing it in the first place. But the, the music really does tie in to like how I got into design. It was more recently. I feel like a lot of people are probably most familiar with my work through post Typography, which is a design studio that I co-founded with my collaborator Nolan Strouse here in Baltimore about 15 years ago.

00;02;51;02 - 00;03;25;02
Bruce Willen
And we actually kind of started doing the design studio. It came out of this band that we were playing in at the time called Double Dagger, which was this punk band that had like very rowdy live shows. And he he was the singer Slash Screamer, and I played bass and then we sent Dennis Bowen as our drummer. And, you know, I think being being a musician in a band like it's sort of being a dissociated being a designer slash musician in a band.

00;03;26;14 - 00;03;56;23
Bruce Willen
It's, it's really fun because you get this opportunity to make your own album covers and designer t shirts and do and make posters. And that was really kind of what led to us founding the design studio back in 2007. So but really before all of that, I mean, I grew up in this really small town in New Mexico called Portales that was very, very dusty, kind of small, like literally very dusty town in the high desert.

00;03;56;23 - 00;04;35;17
Bruce Willen
It's like totally flat. There's no trees. Like you walk outside of town and you can see like miles in each direction. They really are kind of in the middle of the desert. And yeah, I mean, I was, I don't know, like as a kid, I was always really into drawing like a lot of kids. And in particular, I think I really was gravitating towards the more what I say, like the design side of art and that I, I always like more kind of functional drawings like I was in, I'll geek out over maps like a lot of kids, I draw cars all the time.

00;04;37;18 - 00;05;09;09
Bruce Willen
I, I remember, I think when I first realized that like designer was a job. I, there is this documentary on PBS about like the history of the car or something like that. And we had for some reason, we had taped it on like a VHS tape off the TV. And I like when I was a kid, I also like warn that tape out, like watching it so many times because it was cool, because you would actually like interview these car designers and show them like doing these clay models of cars.

00;05;09;09 - 00;05;34;04
Bruce Willen
And I think it was cool seeing it at that age because it was this idea like, oh, there's somebody, a person who is a designer who's actually like making these things that we we see all around us. And it doesn't, you know, it doesn't just magically happen. Or maybe you say, like, the designer is kind of the magician who makes all of that happen.

00;05;34;23 - 00;05;48;26
Rob Lee
I will I will throw this in there, which I think you might find interesting. I've spent some time in Clovis and I've gone through Portland on more than one occasion. I have a brother that lived down there. So yeah, it's crazy.

00;05;48;26 - 00;05;49;09
Bruce Willen
It's very.

00;05;49;09 - 00;05;52;24
Rob Lee
Flat. It's very flat. Yeah. It's the land of enchantment.

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Bruce Willen
Yeah, that's. That's wild. What was your your brother doing there?

00;05;57;01 - 00;06;17;06
Rob Lee
He was like the biggest car salesman in Clovis, New Mexico. And he was like, the reason I am because I'm probably the only black guy here. And so, yeah, we went down there, my brother, my other brother and I and my dad with our kind of East Baltimore kind of sees and going on and with that energy and it's like, Yeah, these guys are from Baltimore.

00;06;17;07 - 00;06;19;23
Rob Lee
That's why I was filled. I was like, Can you not put.

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Bruce Willen
That out there like that? Jeez.

00;06;22;21 - 00;06;24;13
Rob Lee
So, yeah, it's. It's cool to go down there.

00;06;25;07 - 00;06;30;23
Bruce Willen
Yeah. That's what I wonder if you wonder if he sold my parents a car at some point. That's really funny. Um.

00;06;31;16 - 00;06;54;26
Rob Lee
So tell me, tell us about the public mechanics and like, what was the thinking and kind of formation and bringing it together and things of that nature. Because there's a laundry list that I'm going to get into a little bit later of of clients and it's recognizable around local parts here. So I wanted to kind of get that, that, that kind of introductory sort of conversation started.

00;06;55;12 - 00;07;29;15
Bruce Willen
Yeah. Well, so with the work we're doing at Post Typography, I think we had been moving more and more into these kind of like bigger multifaceted projects that a lot of times would have. So something like a component of it was in the built environment where like a three dimensional work to it. Like we worked on the Parkway Theater with the Maryland Film Festival and I think a lot of people in Baltimore familiar with our work with the festival would love that, loved doing some related stuff.

00;07;29;15 - 00;07;58;29
Bruce Willen
And I think like working on these types of projects really made me excited about like I think it rekindled my love for doing work in public space and 3D spaces and built environment as well as I, I think I had just been getting like a little bit burnt out on some of the commercial side of the business. And not that the post typography was the super commercial agency ever.

00;07;58;29 - 00;08;22;24
Bruce Willen
I mean, not even really close to it, but I, I really liked the idea of being wanting to see if I could focus my practice a little bit more on yeah, this work that has this more cultural component has like a big public art component and also building in more self-initiated projects into the mix, which was something that we, we didn't really get as much chance to do as we wanted to post typography.

00;08;23;12 - 00;08;30;11
Rob Lee
So this is this is going to sound ridiculous and I think you touched on it, but let's let's kind of spread this out a little bit further.

00;08;30;18 - 00;08;34;13
Bruce Willen
What is it about typography that excites you when you.

00;08;34;17 - 00;08;51;09
Rob Lee
Get a satellite back? I was like, hold up and and in it there are some other other things in there. Like, I, I'll leave the other bullet points nearby or at least want to start off there and then I'll ask other bullet points as we go along in it. So what is it about typography that excites you?

00;08;51;17 - 00;09;22;17
Bruce Willen
I as well. That's like another reason that I think I gravitated towards being a designer is that I always just I like reading and I like I've always loved language and like, I don't know, just geeking out over like dumb word games and stuff and stuff like that. And I think typography is, is so cool, is it's, it's taking like the alphabet, which is this endlessly both simple yet complex set set of these shapes.

00;09;23;16 - 00;09;50;09
Bruce Willen
And obviously there's not just one alphabet, there's, there's the Latin and Roman that we use, but there is like many, many, many other alphabets. And you can just like take any one of these and kind of have these different permutations of the letters looking different ways, arranged in different ways, and you know, just like generate countless like emotions, feelings of this is container for so many really cool ideas.

00;09;50;09 - 00;10;00;00
Bruce Willen
Yeah, it's just like it's something that is really fun. It's like taking something very small and simple and like, the further you dove into it, the deeper it.

00;10;00;00 - 00;10;25;25
Rob Lee
Goes. So what would you say? Like, it can be local, it can be outside of local. But what are like some brands that it maybe this is more of a design oriented question, but I think you obviously can answer this. What are some local brands or brands that come to mind that really stick out because of their text or their use of maybe a certain sort of letter language, if you will?

00;10;25;25 - 00;10;30;14
Rob Lee
I just coined that. Feel free to steal it.

00;10;30;14 - 00;10;51;11
Bruce Willen
Yeah. I mean, I I'm always someone who gravitates towards that. And this is maybe, maybe just like my personal taste, I gravitate a lot of times towards like, signs and like especially like things like that are older and a little bit more idiosyncratic. And even, you know, in Baltimore, obviously, the, you know, the domino sugar sign is this like huge local landmark.

00;10;51;11 - 00;11;13;10
Bruce Willen
And it's like when I when I first moved to Baltimore and so like and was sort of learning how to become a designer and like would go downtown and see that sign, like, man, just like it's so cool. It's like, must be like three or four stories tall. It's like bright red and it has just like that very cool domino script on it.

00;11;14;01 - 00;11;42;21
Bruce Willen
That's there's just like so recognizable and iconic. Yeah, I don't know. I just like all these really like weird and idiosyncratic stuff as well. Like there's this tire shop on York Road called things like Goma's tire shop. I know their place. Yeah. Every time I drive by there, they have the coolest hand-painted signs that are, you know, it's you could tell it it's hand lettering as opposed to typography because like the the letter is like a little imperfect.

00;11;42;21 - 00;11;59;19
Bruce Willen
There is like each each one, you know, like the the ease or or a slightly different from each other. And it has this just really like fun quality where it's like it, you know, it feels like professional, but at the same time, it's like it's just got energy and spirit and it.

00;12;00;12 - 00;12;17;05
Rob Lee
Has that kind of that, that, that. I think that part of the culture that's here, the, the DIY thing, you know, still while being professional but also kind of staying in that sort of DIY spirit, it's like, yeah, there's some imperfection in here because I did this.

00;12;18;27 - 00;12;56;04
Bruce Willen
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I think that's something that I really love about Baltimore is that there's this real DIY spirit across across like the arts community, but also, you know, in the business community, the design community. And it does create this like real just kind of idiosyncratic language to to the city that I think it's, you know, it's kind of maybe hard to pin pinpoint what is like what is Baltimore look like, you know, but I think that it has this eclecticism to it and this a little bit of like a scrappy DIY quality that I feel like is kind of this common theme.

00;12;56;04 - 00;13;07;13
Bruce Willen
But it is, is still here and is maybe like it's there's less of it in, in other cities I found where it's like it's I feel like it's going away in a lot of places.

00;13;08;02 - 00;13;39;03
Rob Lee
And I like that. You kind of did a little daily double right there. You answer one of my later questions in there about what's the visual language of Baltimore? You kind of touched on it, so shout out to you. So I want to I want to ask this. So I see that, you know, public mechanics is is work with, you know, Boba Pickle Studio you and craft brewing and collaborating seeing like those those kind of fingerprints in and around Baltimore, places that, you know, are kind of like landmarks.

00;13;39;03 - 00;13;57;07
Rob Lee
Like when we think of landmarks, I think we think of like these things that are old or what have you, but not things that are current and looking at like union, for instance, have been around for ten years. What have you said that starts to fall into one of those spots like this is a brand has been around for ten years, but that is a meeting place for a lot of different people.

00;13;57;18 - 00;14;11;01
Rob Lee
And so when it turns into like collaboration or partnering or bringing in clients, what are certain things that you look for in those sorts of relationships? Like what is that kind of like? Northstar for you?

00;14;11;10 - 00;14;35;10
Bruce Willen
So I think it was Tibor Ackerman, who's a pretty well-known designer who said, I think it says something, something to the effect of look for clients who are smarter than you. And I always I feel like that that's like one element. I mean, obviously client is worthy, is great, but just in general, like a client who can will push you and sort and challenge you.

00;14;35;10 - 00;14;55;23
Bruce Willen
I think that is always the best kind of relationship, like obviously having that kind of client, the collaborative relationship. But, you know, someone comes comes to me and says, hey, I, I'm trying I'm trying to do this thing. And I, you know, like the way that I if I was going to do it, I would probably do it this one way.

00;14;55;23 - 00;15;27;06
Bruce Willen
But I want you to try and show me something that is like totally different, is maybe, maybe going to challenge like my audience or my community a little bit and you know, like push things or that. And so I think having somebody who sort of understands that this is like, hey, like you like us, you know, as designers, like we're going to bring a different perspective to it and sort of be open to that kind of like give us the freedom to do that kind of work, but at the same time also kind of push us to do our best work.

00;15;28;03 - 00;16;03;27
Bruce Willen
I think that's really important. And then I feel like the second element of that is just somebody who's doing really great work themselves and whatever field that they're in, whether it's doing like programing, like really amazing films like the film festival is doing like doing bringing like this cool cultural events to Baltimore or making really great beer or, or doing like or being like a the museum and like sort of having a vision for that museum that is like very inclusive and forward thinking and trying to change things.

00;16;04;25 - 00;16;15;11
Bruce Willen
Yeah, I think all of that is yeah. Like, but those are all like I think great things out of the client relationship and obviously the collaborative element is really key to that too.

00;16;16;04 - 00;16;25;03
Rob Lee
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And I think like I always ask this sort of question, but I want to make it a little bit more of a challenge.

00;16;27;24 - 00;16;27;26
Bruce Willen
If.

00;16;28;07 - 00;16;52;20
Rob Lee
You can easily answer like, you know, what's your source of inspiration and so on. And usually they're kind of like you kind of get an idea of like, okay, that, that makes sense. That would make sense as a source of inspiration. What sorts of kind of like uncommon source of inspiration like for instance, for, for me to do better questions, right?

00;16;52;20 - 00;17;19;16
Rob Lee
One would think or oh, to do a podcast, one would think, oh, you're going to different podcast functions and you get inspired by talking to other podcasters or even artists or so on. And but in fact, I get inspired by listening to really old audiobooks like Let Me Tap Into Something all from Dale Carnegie. Let me tap into something that is like old philosophy and it kind of jogs loose certain ideas is that I actually want to know what this person thinks about this.

00;17;19;27 - 00;17;27;00
Rob Lee
So that's something that's uncommon for me, I guess. What would you say? Is that something that's an uncommon source of inspiration? That's embedded in your work?

00;17;27;24 - 00;17;56;09
Bruce Willen
I mean, I think something that I always get really inspired by the just like the city environment around me. And I think there's I wouldn't necessarily I'm trying to think I mean, I do feel like it can be uncommon if you're looking for the right kind of things and like for me, the stuff that I always find most inspiring is just like weird, weird stuff you see in the city and there's like something that you like mostly like only see in the city.

00;17;56;09 - 00;18;30;03
Bruce Willen
Like, you wouldn't, you don't necessarily see it if you go out to like a really nice suburban like manicured housing development, it's like, I don't know that juxtaposition of like some somebody who's like thrown out, some like old mattress and it's like sitting on top of this poster and it's cover, it's covering up half of the poster. So the poster says something else and then like someone's like tagged, tagged some like funny picture on the mattress, I don't know, like all that kind of these like juxtapositions of things that happen in the city, I think is just, like, endlessly inspiring.

00;18;30;07 - 00;18;59;02
Bruce Willen
I mean, the thing that this is also probably kind of weird. I'm like really inspired by bricked up windows that you see. It's like, and I've actually been, I've been taking photos of this stuff for kind of like a couple of decades, actually, just like you see, like it's just like you're walking down like some alley and there's like some when, like, you see a window there and someone has done this really like sloppy job, like putting like cinder blocks or like random colored bricks in the window.

00;18;59;23 - 00;19;27;03
Bruce Willen
And then if you start paying attention to them, like each one of them is like really, really unique and it says a lot, I think that like the owner of the building, whoever made this, like what was going on at the time because like sometimes they're like very, very neat. They've like really matched, like lined up the bricks, tried to hide it, and other times and we just got whatever, whatever bricks were like laying around in a pile and like threw them in here and like this, like, mortar was kind of like dripping down all over the place.

00;19;27;03 - 00;19;34;19
Rob Lee
And we try to protect ourselves from the incoming, like, zombie invasion. And putting these bricks up in this haphazard way is the only way to do so.

00;19;34;27 - 00;19;54;28
Bruce Willen
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I read that and I think, like, I'm inspired, but both from like the visual standpoint, but also there's this sort of like like both sad but also kind of funny metaphoric quality to it that yeah, we're like this window, which is this object for like letting in light and having this transmission between the outdoor world and the indoor space.

00;19;54;28 - 00;20;11;22
Bruce Willen
And, you know, we're just like turning into a wall. We're like closing it off, we're closing ourselves inside, and it's, it's it's sad and a little bit poignant, but it also, I think, has this really, like, beautiful quality in the way that it's done in such a personal way to it.

00;20;12;07 - 00;20;31;05
Rob Lee
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So I got two more real questions and then I got those lovely, lovely, lovely rapid fire questions for you. So, you know, as we get down to the fourth quarter, as we like to call it here, that's actually the first time I've called it that. What would you say is the biggest challenge you face of being like?

00;20;31;05 - 00;20;42;05
Rob Lee
I consider you a professional, creative, and some people may not use that sort of nomenclature for what they do. But what are some of the biggest challenges you face in doing the work that you do and how do you overcome such challenges?

00;20;42;23 - 00;21;06;19
Bruce Willen
I mean, I think I feel like one of the biggest things, especially like earlier on and even even still today, is just kind of like understanding how to value and putting the money side of stuff, you know, especially like early on when we were running code typography, we, we just like really undervalued the work we're doing like undercharged for, for four things.

00;21;06;19 - 00;21;34;21
Bruce Willen
And part of it was because we, I think we didn't know better. We didn't, we didn't really have an understanding of like, oh, what is sort of an industry standard for designing an advertisement for someone or designing a logo? You know, part of it also I think just like maybe not being confident enough in ourselves and you know, I think like obviously like when you're young and starting off like, yeah, you should do you shouldn't charge like too much money because you're still figuring stuff out.

00;21;34;28 - 00;21;59;29
Bruce Willen
You know, you're getting opportunities like learn on the job. So that's that's worth something. But at the same time, it's like, you shouldn't be working free. You shouldn't be going and going into debt to, to do work. And it's, it's I feel like challenging and especially in a place like Baltimore where there's not necessarily like huge amounts of money compared to other cities for for projects.

00;21;59;29 - 00;22;26;26
Bruce Willen
And, you know, sometimes there's this expectation that I mean, I'm sure like, you know, I know that you've talked about your other guests to like artists that you love, work, work for less money or work for free, and you're kind of getting trapped. I think. Like I've really been trying to get into the mindset of like thinking about like what value does my work create for someone else or for the client?

00;22;26;26 - 00;22;46;05
Bruce Willen
You know, if I'm charging money or it's like, what does this create for the clients? Both financially, financially, but maybe in tangibly, like what does it do for their brand or perception or their ability? Just like market themselves or get people to come to to their the park or museum or buildings.

00;22;46;21 - 00;23;08;18
Rob Lee
I think I relate to that. I think a lot of folks relate to it as you're bringing in sort of client work where you're charging and so on. And you know, I spend a nice chunk of my time, probably about 30% of my time and that I kind of dedicate towards some of the administrative stuff. But even some of this kind of outreach oriented stuff to maybe look in for clients and things of that nature.

00;23;08;18 - 00;23;34;17
Rob Lee
And I think what I try to do and I'm not as vocal about it and I'll bare about it, but I try to bring in a client here and there that I might be a ghost podcaster for or a consultant for to to kind of fund this and keep this something that's an unfunded but unsullied project. Because I think when you bring in funding or bring in funders, suddenly someone now has a little bit more control or say over your expression.

00;23;34;17 - 00;23;52;22
Rob Lee
And that's not really something I'm super interested in. But when it is those instances where there is a collaboration that falls within this line, I'm like, All right, this is kind of what I'm looking for. You know, we can kind of talk about it and here's a draft or whatever. Here's an email you we can talk about it.

00;23;53;09 - 00;24;18;18
Rob Lee
But, you know, it's also one of the things that you said that resonated with me is early on that no one any better. I was under charging and, you know, seeing folks are like, oh, could get new clients off of that and so on. It's like not really having any industry standard set up and or being mis categorized is, Oh, well, this is an influencer thing now this is probably more marketing oriented for some of you folks.

00;24;18;18 - 00;24;46;18
Rob Lee
And you guys have a marketing budget and you know, it's not a matter of I had this recently where someone was like, this is the budget that I have. And it was probably a third of what I asked for and I was like, okay, I can offer a third of what you're looking for. And be confident in doing that because it's like, I know how I value my work and I know how people see what this is and what, what maybe benefits come from it.

00;24;46;18 - 00;25;05;03
Rob Lee
But that takes that time, that confidence and that kind of repetition. And also writing it out, I think at a point when I put together a a a deck, a press kit, if you will, and saying like, this is kind of what I do. And these are the analytics that back it up using my day job as a data analyst.

00;25;05;03 - 00;25;06;06
Bruce Willen
I was like, Oh, so.

00;25;06;06 - 00;25;16;00
Rob Lee
This is my reasoning, my methodology for it. And it's either cool, I can move on, you know, but this is less scarcity, more abundance is what I try to go for.

00;25;16;06 - 00;25;39;08
Bruce Willen
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important. Like when one thing that I do, whenever I'm advising young designers or creative people just to try and have those like money conversations like early on in early before you kind of get too far down the road talking about a project with the client or someone, you're just like, make, make sure that the expectations are really clear.

00;25;39;09 - 00;25;59;07
Bruce Willen
And I think trying to identify like what you need to be able to do, do your work in a way that you're actually getting paid for it. And, and, and, you know, and sometimes, you know, maybe some instances that might be it's like a really low budget project that I just need to get paid enough to cover my time, not feel like I'm being taken advantage of.

00;25;59;07 - 00;26;28;16
Bruce Willen
But, you know, if you're working for a client who has money like it's a big nonprofit or a corporation or someone like you, it's like, hey, like, I need to get I need to be getting paid, whatever, like $100 an hour or something or whatever it is that you you feel like is your kind of baseline rate. Plus, thinking about like all this, like you're saying all the time, that kind of goes into like the bookkeeping and this sort of like going after new business and all that stuff.

00;26;28;16 - 00;26;57;24
Bruce Willen
That's I mean, I, yeah, I feel like it's something I've just like sort of had to learn about all this stuff over the years and like it's not very good figuring it out. And I, I feel like younger people are coming up or just getting a lot better at that. Hopefully and hopefully. I mean, I would just like say to you, I mean, I think it's like anyone who's listening to this is just getting into design or creatives feel just like I'd say, don't, don't undersell yourself.

00;26;58;00 - 00;27;12;28
Bruce Willen
You know, if someone is trying to take advantage of you or, you know, get you to work for exposure or whatever, I mean, like particularly like a really hard look at like, is this the kind of person you want to work with one or like a corporation or like institution or whatever it is one and like and two is like, yeah.

00;27;12;28 - 00;27;20;29
Bruce Willen
What, what are you getting out of it? What are they getting out of it? And, you know, because a lot of like almost every time it's like they're going to get more out of it than you are.

00;27;21;28 - 00;27;34;24
Rob Lee
100%. You want 1%. And yeah. So I guess the last real world question I'm going to modify a little bit from from a design, from an art, from any perspective because, you know.

00;27;35;12 - 00;27;35;22
Bruce Willen
We'd like to.

00;27;35;22 - 00;27;50;11
Rob Lee
Drop jewels here. We like to drop gems here. And I think you had a piece here, a second ago, which I think is very salient. But if you could, what is one thing? It could be advice. It could be whatever you want. But what is one thing that you want to offer to community from your vantage point, from your lens?

00;27;50;20 - 00;28;18;03
Bruce Willen
I think really being like trying to be supportive of each other in the creative community I think is very important. And that that can mean either, you know, trying and trying to like hire each other, hire other artists, hire other hardcore musicians or filmmakers photographers. But if you're working on a project and if there's an opportunity to bring someone in, in a way that you're like, okay, this is this is a project that's this person.

00;28;18;03 - 00;28;35;28
Bruce Willen
You get paid or be like helpful doing this. And I try and create that like collaborative environment. I think is, is really great wherever you can. And I know it's not always possible everywhere, but just trying to like foster this sense of community wherever you can because that's something that is super important.

00;28;36;07 - 00;28;47;20
Rob Lee
100% couldn't say it better myself. So with that I want to bring in a few I'm going to wheel it into the rapid fire questions. I got a couple of them. Don't overthink them. Don't overthink.

00;28;47;20 - 00;28;54;25
Bruce Willen
It. Don't think I've I've honestly even been like this is the part that I'm like, oh, man, I know you're going to be going to be they're going to be great.

00;28;55;03 - 00;29;06;28
Rob Lee
You're going to be great. And we want to be is is brief as possible here because I think when we have time to overthink it, you know, so I'm going to start off with this one. What is your favorite font?

00;29;07;15 - 00;29;09;01
Bruce Willen
I think Franklin Gothic.

00;29;09;18 - 00;29;21;14
Rob Lee
So you just kind of threw that one out there. The I don't even I can't even fact check it. I came to see it. That's a real thing. You just made that up. I'm here. I'll accept it. Yeah, that was this time's new Roman, because I'm boring and I type it in italics because I'm way cooler. I've. Never mind.

00;29;21;19 - 00;29;26;00
Rob Lee
That's a Hannibal dress joke. Don't worry about it. Sunrise or sunset?

00;29;26;22 - 00;29;28;09
Bruce Willen
Sunset.

00;29;28;09 - 00;29;29;11
Rob Lee
What was the last book you read?

00;29;30;19 - 00;29;31;22
Bruce Willen
1491.

00;29;33;08 - 00;29;34;16
Rob Lee
What was your last Google search?

00;29;35;14 - 00;29;49;27
Bruce Willen
Oh, I would have to I'd have to go go look that up. I'd have to Google that one. Okay. Ridiculous. Probably a fright. A search, actually. Yeah. I was like, wait, like Rod Leigh, Baltimore Club.

00;29;51;12 - 00;30;04;26
Rob Lee
The truth that is in this club. Lastly and then this, this this is one that always trips people up. But I enjoy it because it's a little trolling. Describe what you do, but describe it poorly.

00;30;04;26 - 00;30;19;25
Bruce Willen
Describe it poorly. Yeah, I, I make I make things that people can, can interact with and look look at in the world, in public.

00;30;21;13 - 00;30;23;10
Rob Lee
Is a good example of describing what you do.

00;30;23;10 - 00;30;28;20
Bruce Willen
Poorly. I love it's I go through it's really it's really bad definitely not not going for that on the website.

00;30;28;26 - 00;30;36;07
Rob Lee
No that's not on that's not on the LinkedIn. You know it's like I'm a typography televangelists. Like that's not what I do actually.

00;30;36;25 - 00;30;38;27
Bruce Willen
That's pretty good. That's pretty good description.

00;30;39;24 - 00;30;58;28
Rob Lee
So with that, I'm going to thank you for for being on this podcast. This has been been a tree. It's been a great thing to kind of chat it up. And it's been a yarn with you, as it were. And in the final moments here, I want to invite and encourage you to tell a fine folks where to check you out your work and just to get a little bit more deeper in the conversation.

00;30;58;28 - 00;31;04;10
Rob Lee
So to you, share your social media website, whatever you want to share and the floor is yours.

00;31;04;10 - 00;31;32;24
Bruce Willen
Oh, yeah. Thanks, Rob. Yeah, this is has been a really fun conversation. Yeah. If you want to find out more about public mechanics, about my work at Public Mechanics on Instagram, I've got a couple of websites. Public mechanics is the more of the studio website, and Bruce will encourage also some more personal work, some music stuff. I'm also working on a big public art and history project called Ghost Rivers.

00;31;32;24 - 00;31;46;00
Bruce Willen
If you want to check out Ghost Rivers dot com, there's going to be some more stuff coming up on that in the next over the next few months and the installation runs are starting next spring 2023. So check it out.

00;31;46;08 - 00;32;04;28
Rob Lee
Well, there you have it, folks. Again, for Bruce Willen.. I am Rob Lee saying that there are designers, typography, all that good stuff in and around Baltimore. You just got to look for it.