Welcome to getting to the truth in this art. I'm your host, Rob Lee, and today's guest is documentary photographer and conceptual artist based in Brooklyn, New York City, and, of course, Baltimore. Isaiah Winters, welcome to the podcast.
Isaiah Winters:Thank you so much for having me, man. I'm excited. I'm so pumped. This has been on the calendar for a few weeks now, so I'm glad that we're finally able to chat.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And and that's really what it is. It's it's a chat, and, you know, as we talked a little bit before I press literally seconds ago, before I, pressed play and record it all, we were just talking about just Baltimore. You got that vibe in in your work. So not to rehash, but feel free and to to put that message back in there.
Rob Lee:But for those who were, undipped, uninitiated, describe your work.
Isaiah Winters:Right. Exactly. No. I I, I wanted to note that I'm I'm glad that you you, brought that back up because, yeah, it's not a it's not a rehashing. It's kind of Baltimore to me is it's been home for about 8, 9 years now.
Isaiah Winters:And I feel like this city, what I've noticed in my work, and and as you mentioned, I like to do a lot of documentary photography. I do a lot of architectural work, a lot of play with light and color. I got my start because of the city of Baltimore. You know, I was walking around just wanting to learn more about the city and and its people and just capturing these moments of everyday life that really stuck out to me. So kinda before the whole influencer game and everything like that started, that's kinda how I got my started.
Isaiah Winters:Not too many people know that, but I there just weren't many people walk around taking photos of everyday life, here in the city. And being here throughout that time, you know, working with the be being part of the be more creatives, working with them as in my teammates, and also just the photography work that I've done. I've really focused on trying to offer a counter narrative to what's normally assumed about Baltimore. I mean, we're a city full of a ton of different neighborhoods, and there's a lot of different issues. I feel like every city has its things that they're working on.
Isaiah Winters:But with Baltimore, we kind of get a lot of attention. As we're saying before, once, you know, there's some negativity that that that comes back up or something happens in the news and and all of a sudden the cameras and everything are fixated again. Not really taking note of all the amazing things that are going on in the city, you know, on the day to day and all the artists, and creatives and organizations and nonprofits, and everyone just trying to do what they can to help us, you know, as a city continue to thrive. So for me, you know, my documentary work, I'm moving in with some more conceptual works, more motion picture work here soon, and a lot of that is just my basis is here in Baltimore. It's it's gonna stick with me no matter where I go, just that that hustle mentality and that that whole notion of having to get your own story out there because you can't always rely on the media to, to show all those different aspects of the city.
Isaiah Winters:You know? So, yeah, it's just been it's been an honor to be accepted here and to, be able to work here and just collaborate with some of the best, you know, out.
Rob Lee:Yeah. That's it it's interesting, like, kinda touching on, like, how maybe the news covers things and the the, I guess, the way that a camera works. Right. You know, there there's a limit limited, viewpoint there. It's like, this is what you're choosing to capture.
Rob Lee:And, you know, being here, like, I've always lived here, and I'm a lifelong resident. And, you know, you kinda see things, and I I've I've never been as super, like, demonstrative about it up until I had to be. Like, you know, I I was I went to Morgan, a lot of New Yorkers there, a lot of, like, DMV, and we had that weird relationship too. Mhmm. And, weird shots.
Rob Lee:And it's like, you're you're choosing to go to school here. So, really, is it dangerous? Like or or these goofy questions like, is it like The Wire? It's like, literally
Isaiah Winters:Yeah.
Rob Lee:You're here. Like
Isaiah Winters:Yeah.
Rob Lee:So for for you, you and so how long have you been in your practice creatively?
Isaiah Winters:Right. So I have been shooting professionally now for about 7, 8 years, and I'd say most of that time has been here in Baltimore. I've been fortunate enough to work with a few commercial clients and do some different work throughout the country and a little bit of international work, but, yeah, my basis has been Baltimore. I was shooting what most people believe was full time, but I was actually still in the air force, stationed at Fort Meade, NSA down the road, up until 2017. So through much of that time, I kinda split my time.
Isaiah Winters:You know, the day job was my my military side of things. And then when I got home, you know, it was photography. And for me, event photography and working with a lot of, nonprofits, you know, events, nonprofits started by women, women of color. Those were the people who really gave me a shot, because my you know, I don't shoot a lot of event photography now, but all of the the basis and and a lot of the things that I learned, that set me up to move more into my fine art and, you know, editorial practice was, you know, those those events and those those small gigs and just, you know, learning through repetition and and practice. So, yeah, the city's been incredibly beneficial to me.
Isaiah Winters:I just yeah. I can't even explain it. It's like, I don't I don't know what an Isaiah Winter's artistic practice or photography practice looks like without Baltimore. Like, I that's an interesting question to think about. You know?
Rob Lee:So you you touched on the air force. Let's let's talk about that a little bit. That that career shift, how how was that? Like, yeah.
Isaiah Winters:Yeah. It was it was tough. So I I was I was a linguist. I was there until 2017, as soon as my time, I finished serving. So a lot of people are confused about this.
Isaiah Winters:Once if you don't go the full 20 years in the military and retire, you separate. So I had a 6 year contract. I finished my 6 years after undergrad, and then I separated. So I did about 6 no. I'd say about 4 or 5 months.
Isaiah Winters:I traveled cross country, packed everything up, hit a bunch of national parks. I was in Northern California, California, Oregon, Washington, just traveling around and really just trying to reconnect with, like, what it means to be a civilian. Because, you know, military side, it's a whole different set of rules and and regulations and everything. So I had to kinda, you know, let let go of that a little bit. And then for me, it was more about figuring out, okay, what do I need to do to make this a full time transition?
Isaiah Winters:So I'd say mid 2017 until around 2019, I was actually working for Yelp. I was working as a community manager here in Baltimore, and that was Yeah. Kinda why I took that position because it allowed me to champion small businesses and local businesses and and, creatives kinda doing cool things in the city and find ways to work that into, you know, this big corporate entity that is Yelp, but they have a very specific, community, department that was just focused on that just like community building, and support. So during that 2 year period, once I was out of the air force and working for Yelp, focusing on marketing and advertising, that was when I really, started preparing myself to go back to graduate school, started getting my organization and everything under control because I'm sure you know how important that is. And Yes.
Isaiah Winters:Now I can't live without my calendars and alerts and, you know, notifications and all that stuff. But, like, I think that time, that 2 year gap, once I left the military, set me up to know, okay, you have to be you have to be driven. You have to set goals. You have to really be independent, in a lot of cases because there wasn't, like, a Yelp home office here with there in San Francisco. So I would do my work.
Isaiah Winters:I work from home. So, you know, this whole shift with everything, I've been working from home, for years, and it was more just about making sure that I set realistic goals and expectations for myself, and that kind of all translated over for me. So now that I'm no longer with Yelp, you know, we had a great relationship, transitioned away from that, and I ended up taking a sabbatical to go work with Glacier National Park towards the end of 2019. And that was where I'd say I really made the shift to full time. Like, this is what I'm gonna do.
Isaiah Winters:And yeah. Long answer, but No. No. I'm working from you know, it's it's a it's a weird and complicated track, and I know with a few of the other, you know, chats that I've done, that's something that people are interested in hearing because there's always this misconception of, oh, I didn't start in in in time, or I'm I'm getting a little bit older, or, you know, I didn't go to art squad and do this. And I think there needs to be more more stories out there of people who don't necessarily take the traditional path.
Isaiah Winters:Like, if there's something that you wanna do, you can start whenever. You know? Obviously, there, you know, there are things you need and there are things that you have to do, but, like, don't let that be an obstacle. And for me, it was for years. Like, I really just didn't believe Mhmm.
Isaiah Winters:You know, that I could do it. It was like I spent so much time doing this and that. And but, like, really, it was only me stopping me. You know? Yeah.
Rob Lee:I I I think, like, the space that I'm in, like, I've been podcasting for 12 years. And when I tell people that they look at me, it's like, why aren't you doing something else? Or and I was like, this is this is my my artistic practice, and I and I take it and regard it as such. And also, it is that that period of always checking in and, like, the imposter syndrome is there. It's like, is this even worthwhile?
Rob Lee:And I think these conversations are always worthwhile and always interesting.
Isaiah Winters:Right.
Rob Lee:But it's like, you know, really, what is it? And then when you get when I get to that space of, I am a damn artist. And Right.
Isaiah Winters:You know,
Rob Lee:I'll just say it to myself. And it's like, what am I too old to to try to get out there and start it despite doing this since my mid twenties? And Mhmm. You know, I I would look at the careers of not even people that are, like, similar, but just the careers of people that we know. Like, you know, like, Harrison Ford.
Rob Lee:I remember looking at the thing, and it's like, he got started, like, in his late thirties. Like Right. Like Star Wars. He was, like, in his mid to late thirties.
Isaiah Winters:And it was a it was like a fluke. Like, he wasn't even going for it. You know?
Rob Lee:So I think we we put this weird kind of go go go now. If you're not a 10 year old prodigy and whatever your creative practice is, then you're a dinosaur. Mhmm. And we need to kind of get away from that, I think, because, you know, there are people who do things just at any time. And some people create their best work maybe later in life, maybe sixties, seventies, or what have you.
Rob Lee:And it's like, here's something really dope that I created. It's like, oh, you did? Really? Mhmm. So for for your for your creative practice, what draws you to a project?
Isaiah Winters:Oh, that's a that's a great question. I so my undergrad was in sociology. I graduated from, Salisbury University over in the Eastern Shore. So been in Maryland for a bit, grade school and college. But for me, I'm I'm a big research nerd.
Isaiah Winters:I get caught up in all these weird socio you know, sociologically based topics like education or, you know, religion and and architecture and redlining. So I usually start a concept or I'll I'll start to observe something. So just pay attention. And for me, in Baltimore, it was really like I was saying that I wasn't really seeing positive, beautiful images of the city, you know, of just everyday life. There are a lot of things going on, and there were some artists making some beautiful, incredible work.
Isaiah Winters:But I think for Baltimore for for that type of photography, you really saw that more in DC, New York, Philly. Like, it wasn't popping off the same way here. So for me, it was more of a conversation of, like, why is that? There's obviously beautiful things here in the city, and then looking into the history. So then I kind of ended up down this rabbit hole of looking at the differences between East Baltimore and West Baltimore over the last couple of decades and the rise and fall, and then you got things like white flight and and Baltimore County and the breakdown.
Isaiah Winters:So I really ended up down this weird rabbit hole of, like, how did Baltimore City end up as Baltimore City? Yep. And then for me yeah. I from that broad from that, like, broad topic of what is Baltimore City, it's really for me, I get caught up in these individual stories. So I love, finding a narrative.
Isaiah Winters:I love finding just an individual who's doing something just out of the norm. Yeah. I have a friend who's, a black yogi, and he was one of the fur 1st black men that I ever met that was out outwardly practicing yoga. And, like, he really inspired me, to practice and try all these other things. And so he ended up being someone that I was fascinated with.
Isaiah Winters:We we we became friends, and now he's a frequent collaborator. Justin Temple. Shout out to him. But people like that, it's just meeting interesting people who are doing cool stuff that's just not not that it's not getting attention, but maybe I feel that I can do something different with it, or I my style can do something with it. And, I think that's a conversation that a lot of people don't have as well.
Isaiah Winters:You are an artist. I am an artist. And but there's I'm not a podcaster, and I think I think podcasting is such a huge skill and, like, a talent, and it's fascinating to me all the different aspects that go into that. And I think a lot of people have a hard time realizing, well, if something is your passion or your focus on something, that's not necessarily a weakness. I know that I have specific things in photography that I'm drawn to.
Isaiah Winters:I can't go out and capture every single topic. So, you know, I'm not gonna go out and get the the, the show stopping, you know, image like like a Devin Allen or something during the protest. Like, that is that is his style, and that's that's his thing. And, like, my gosh. He just has an eye for that stuff.
Isaiah Winters:You know? And I think for me, it was just taking time to slow down a little bit and, like, think about, like, what am I interested in? Because I feel like everybody gets caught up in the trends, and it's like, well, what's popular now? What's and it's like, don't sacrifice your ideals. You know?
Isaiah Winters:Don't sacrifice your interests for other things. And I think it was for me, it was just being like, you know what? This weird niche cult q and a like, whatever it is that I'm researching now and I'm down this path, like, just go with it. It's fine. And, like, I'll figure it out or I'll move on to another project.
Isaiah Winters:But, I think, yeah, just allowing myself to take something I'm interested in and then kinda just run with it is always it my projects always start that way. I have, like, a Google Keep doc that to any normal person would look like something out of the DaVinci code, but I open it up and I'm like, oh, this is related to that. This is that. And like, a lot of times I'll just open it up and then it'll spark something like, oh, I forgot that I was even thinking about this. So, yeah, just making sure that, like, I either follow those paths or immediately dot write them down.
Isaiah Winters:And they've been saying that for for what you know, forever. You got a dream, get your dream journal. You got a thought, like, write it down. But for me, that's been the biggest, biggest thing for me in terms of steering work.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And I and I definitely get that and it resonates with me because, like, the unique stuff, like, when it's it's funny, like, I'm I'm a business major. I work in IT and all of that stuff, but then it's just like I've always had this what satiates me and what balances me out is doing something creative. Right. So, you know, I always joke that I was one of those failed art kids.
Rob Lee:I went to the school of their arts, and it was just like, yeah, we don't really know. And I I kind of I used to do comics back in the day. It's like a kid, like, middle school
Isaiah Winters:had me. Me too. Yes.
Rob Lee:So, you know, going to Holland Town, you know, one of the, teachers, they were like, oh, you did this by yourself? And it's like, did every of the elements. And, you know, out of podcasting and doing everything in a very self contained, self controlled way, I just have more confidence in myself to just try to do different things. So don't really have the desire to try to draw and it's like a skill that I didn't really take to that next level. But I have a sense of humor.
Rob Lee:I you know, outside of this, I do 2 other podcasts. And you know, my humor is definitely reflected in this comic that I'm now writing, and I have hired an artist to do. And we do it's like me and my and my girlfriend, we do a ridiculous cat comic, and it's about cat lawyers. And we have a good time writing it, and she's
Isaiah Winters:have enough cat related topics and media.
Rob Lee:I I will send you I will send you some Please do.
Isaiah Winters:I will I will love it. I would love it.
Rob Lee:And it's it's, like, ridiculous and just doing it and and even going back to, like, setting it up. Like, when I decided that I wanted to get into podcasting, I was like, what what's the thing that interests me?
Isaiah Winters:Right.
Rob Lee:I was like, what can I talk about that it doesn't feel like it's work? Because when it feels like it's work, I don't wanna do it. And the and and it would feel like work. Like, this is is work in certain terms of organizing things and things like that, but the actual doing part of it doesn't feel like work. It feels like fun.
Rob Lee:And so when I got into podcasting, I was like, what do I like? I like listening to the radio and audio file. Like, listening to the radio and hearing those weird, like, goofy stories of Mhmm. This happened in this random city.
Isaiah Winters:I was
Rob Lee:like, how can I just get a whole thing of that? And that became my niche. I like to cover weird news of pop culture, and that became the show I've been doing. And when I was thinking of developing this show and this show came came about when, Trump was talking spicy to Elijah Cummings.
Isaiah Winters:Oh, wow.
Rob Lee:So that's why this show came out.
Isaiah Winters:Right.
Rob Lee:And I was like, what can I do? I was like, I can be mad and get black guy high blood pressure
Isaiah Winters:Exactly. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Or I could try to disprove it, and I'd rather disprove it. And it turns out that I'm decent at having conversations with people in the city. And
Isaiah Winters:Oh, I can tell, man. I mean, I was relaxed from the second the second we logged on. You know? That's a talent. It really is.
Isaiah Winters:Look. If for a photographer, if I schedule a porch or a shoot with someone I don't know before the pandemic, that's, like, 2 hours, and maybe we're only shooting for 30 minutes. Because, you know, you're talking. You're trying to, you know, make sure people open up to you. So that in itself is oh my gosh.
Isaiah Winters:It's we need we need, like, a podcast at every every set for every entire piece of that. Right? Just, like, just warm you know, get get people ready to go.
Rob Lee:So Relax. So you you mentioned, like, just some of the things that you're interested in from, like, it seems if I were to maybe paraphrase, it almost isn't like like like life, different pockets of life or what have you. And I I wanna get your your take on this. What does it mean to be a black man in today's society?
Isaiah Winters:Oh, gosh.
Rob Lee:It's a hard one. I know.
Isaiah Winters:No. It's a hard one, but I'm ready for it, and I'm here for it. And I appreciate you asking it. It's it's really hard. I mean and I think if people if people look at my work, maybe I'm trying to you know, I'm trying to show Baltimore's beauty, and I'm trying to do all these things.
Isaiah Winters:But I usually play played it pretty neutral and pretty safe because, you know, there's always that argument of I'm a black artist, but I don't necessarily always want my art to reflect the fact that I'm black, or I don't wanna always to be about that. Now with the emergence of someone like Trump, and I think you covering pop pop culture, being a black man, being from this area, I think a bunch of us took notice of, like, something is off here. Something's different and something really bad is gonna happen. And I feel like it almost was like I was compelled or pulled towards making work that leans more towards, speaking about my experience. And I think Mhmm.
Isaiah Winters:With my photography, that can be difficult sometimes because I'm really just trying to show frames of life, moments of of life. You know, all my photography should and I want it to read as almost as though it's just like a frame from a still from, you know, a film just about life or a topic or like a specific, you know, moment in time. So with me, I think as opposed to just reflecting how difficult it is to be a black man in today's society, I mean, I don't have to explain to you how hard it was with the the Floyd the the video itself, first off. I mean, I avoided it as long as I could, and I saw it by mistake. And it was like, do I really I really didn't wanna see a public lynching that now the whole world has seen.
Isaiah Winters:So that changed a few things. And I think just having to respond to the fact that we've been speaking and kinda shouting about a lot of these issues and concerns forever and ever, and our parents and our grandparents and everyone has been saying it, just to come to the realization that people were just now being like, oh, this has been going on? How absurd? How crazy? And it's like, it took everything that I thought I knew about friends and family and life and community and all of that, and it kind of shook things up a bunch because it was like, I don't need you know, it was a weird sense where it's like, I don't know who to trust.
Isaiah Winters:Do I even trust myself when it comes to create? Like, do I even wanna make work right now? Right. It just was one of those things that could've defeated. You know, it was almost like defeating in a in a in a sense.
Isaiah Winters:And I I love that you mentioned the response to Trump talking to Elijah Cummings because that was another moment where it was like, oh, no. Like, you're not you don't know where this is. This is not DC. This is not like, do not do that. You know?
Isaiah Winters:Don't do that here. We we really, value and cherish our leaders here who are just trying to you know, they're fighting. They're trying to do the same thing. So I think for me, just acknowledging of where I've come from, where I am now, and the the little bit of platform that I have, just trying to use that in a way that turns attention towards some of these things. So these things that I assumed people knew about, you know, institutional racism and the fact that we're gonna be treated differently in a restaurant.
Isaiah Winters:Like, these are not fairy tales. We're telling you Yeah. These are real things. I think for me, it it it nudged me in a way where it was like, instead of just assuming that people understand everything, maybe I need to be a little bit more direct, with some of my beliefs or some of my work. So less so I mean, I've had a few projects recently that are leaning more towards that, but I definitely think the work coming out in 2021 that I've really been sitting with and, like, holding on to for a bit is is a lot more targeted.
Isaiah Winters:And I think a lot more targeted and a lot more targeted to Baltimore specifically just because yeah. I think I just don't know what else I would be doing. And I don't know what else I I don't know what else I would be doing that would have a bigger impact right now. I think, yeah, I think just the city, deserves deserves it.
Rob Lee:Yeah. It was it's interesting. Like, I I like, you know, what would I aim to do in, you know, the stuff that I do is be able to critique stuff and be able to have, like, you know, I always can find something that's rough and get humor out of it somewhere. That's that's a skill that I try to cultivate them. Okay at it.
Rob Lee:So I remember when, like, Freddie Gray went down, and me and my cohost for this the show we were doing, called MetroCast, and it was just like, we're both named Rob. And it was kinda like, just do you guys say Rob. And it went through 3 different name changes. It's called 2 Rob Crew and then, Extraordinary. And it just had different names.
Rob Lee:And eventually, we settled on MetroCast. And that was the show where we were kinda covering this, like, Trump ascent. And, you know, I was looking at it one way, and my cohost was kinda just like, nah. It's not gonna happen. Nothing's gonna happen with this.
Rob Lee:I was like, are you sure? Right. And I remember we were doing a podcast, and we both got somehow, we both got either a new a message or something that hit our phones. At the same time, we were wrapping up the podcast, and it was about Freddie Gray and that the whole situation. And, you know, at at that point, when it did first went down, and I was just like, no.
Rob Lee:That's not anything different. I was like, it's odd that we're getting the message here. And I was like, I don't remember who sent it or whatever, but it's just been like this cycle of in a way that I've described it is, would you see these things on video Mhmm. These racially impuged acts of terrorism, on video, you you almost wanna believe it's a film. It's it's that is shot in such a way.
Rob Lee:It's like, this isn't real. Right? We don't do that.
Isaiah Winters:Like, how would yeah. How would And then it's like,
Rob Lee:oh, we do. Mhmm. And it it was just, you know, you try to navigate through these things. And, you know, I'm a 6 foot 4, 300 pound black man, and I have to remind people of this. Like, you know, in an office environment, usually I'm working with people who are different from me, white women a lot of times.
Rob Lee:And I'm gonna be the tallest person in there, largest person in there, and I'm very, cognizant of that. So when the notion of threatening black guy comes up Right. I'm I'm aware of that. So whenever I have a meeting, I'm sitting down.
Isaiah Winters:Right.
Rob Lee:And I have to do those different things. And these are these small things that we don't really talk about because when it's presented, we have a habit of switching the conversation to another thing instead of looking at multiple things at one time or looking at the elephant in the room because
Isaiah Winters:It's painful. Yeah. It really is. I'm so glad that you brought that up, and I think yeah. I feel like just through the industries and and the fields that we're working in and the arts in general, that tends to be the case where we're the best, minority in a lot of cases.
Isaiah Winters:And and, yeah, I think that's that's just been tough. You hit it you hit it right on the head where it's like it's it's uncomfortable to even discuss a lot of these things because as I was saying, like, I don't are people gonna even believe me? Are we gonna even do anything about it? Is it worth just making myself seem vulnerable, which we all we all are. And I think expressing those things, more normally is overall gonna be a better thing.
Isaiah Winters:But, yeah, it's just this whole notion that we're always playing with. And then you got you got Du Bois and you got double consciousness, and, like, we're always flipping, you know, the ways that we process and interact with other people. So I think with Freddie Gray and and I was out there just to document some of that and really I didn't really go out until it was the peaceful protest. And then when CNN and all the other networks came in, they kinda still get a little bit more of like, oh, well, look at the CBS. Well, look at that.
Isaiah Winters:And that I I will never forget that day where I am looking and and my camera's turned at 1 of the CNN film crews and, like, everything's peaceful and calm. And then, like, 2 people just start getting, you know, riled up in this crowd of 100. And then they're just go, go, go. Like the like, you know, I mean, like, get them, get them, get them, get them. And it was like, oh my gosh.
Isaiah Winters:They're documenting us as though Baltimore is like some kinda zoo, and they're just here to document the chaos. And it was like, no. And, obviously, this isn't a new notion of people needing to have their own story and have their own documentation. I mean, it's the reason the civil rights movement started and and took traction. And the feminist movement, all these different movements, I think there's so much power in us as black creatives, black men, black women, people of color in general, just different different marginalized groups being able to tell their own stories in their own neighborhoods, in their homes, and get that out there because, you know, the status quo is not made for us, and all this stuff is not made for us.
Isaiah Winters:You know, we can sit here and say, oh, standardized testing is is but, like, well, look at everything. Nothing is made for us. And so yeah, I think just I know Freddie Gray started me on that that journey. And then with Floyd, it kinda just snapped something to me where it was like, I can't tolerate any tolerate it anymore. I can't be that quiet guy, and, you know, I just can't not say anything.
Isaiah Winters:It's too it's too, like, insulting and painful on so many levels. You know? And the fact that this is documented right here, you know, 8 plus minutes, clear 4 k. And I say this to everyone, 4 k footage, we watched this man go out. And then people still be well, what did he do?
Isaiah Winters:Well, he should've just paid attention with what we just saw with the you know, with the insurrection. It's like, this is what we were saying. It doesn't matter what he did. He was never gonna be treated with the respect and concern that he, you know, deserved.
Rob Lee:Yes.
Isaiah Winters:Yeah. I think that these conversations are gonna continue to happen. And I I love that there are there just seems to be so many people stepping up to this moment. And not that people weren't before that, but I think just in the same where it was like, well, maybe I I know that I leaned away from some of these topics. Yeah.
Isaiah Winters:Now it's like, I I don't really care. This is what I care about. Yeah. And, like, if people don't like that or it's too political or whatever, then, like, that's fine. I You know?
Isaiah Winters:I appreciate the the the support in the past. You know? I'm gonna I'm gonna keep moving.
Rob Lee:So I I'm, on I was on that wave of hitting my like, it'll be at the end of the month, it'll be 12 years. And when I got to that whole period, I was like, alright. Let me do a tour. Let me start doing guest spots and all of that stuff. And I've had certain podcasts hit me up.
Rob Lee:I literally do a comedy podcast about dick jokes. And I I I've had, you know, guys, yeah, once I started doing this and being very kind of picking aside, not saying I wasn't picking aside, but being very, like, no. If you got a question, this is what it is. I'm a black man, and this is how I feel. Right.
Rob Lee:And I got Dean, oh, you're a little radical or you're a little I was like, I appreciate it, and enjoy your neck beard podcast. I'll continue saying things that are real. Yeah. So and this is and I think I already got the answer, but may maybe, make it a bit more concrete
Isaiah Winters:Right.
Rob Lee:Just for those in the back. What's your take on the role of photographer doing political uprisings and social justice movements?
Isaiah Winters:I think that it is so necessary, but I caution people, and I've I've said this. I'm currently in grad school. I don't even know if we touched on that right now, but I'm in my photography cohort. And and around the time that George Floyd happens, we were just starting up. We started in the summer of 2020.
Isaiah Winters:So we had these discussions, and they were hard conversations. And I am one of 2 black men in my year of my cohort. And, yeah, it's an arts it's Parsons. It's an art school. So there's not gonna be many of us to begin with.
Isaiah Winters:So they were very hard conversations. And when these topics would come up and my classmates would ask me, I would say, I'm fine with people documenting. Make sure you know what you're documenting. Mhmm. What purpose it's going to serve?
Isaiah Winters:Who are you? And not to say that people can't people who are white can't go out and document black struggle and black protests and all these things because some of the best civil rights photographers were white men, Jewish men. You know, you have you have, like, a photographer like Danny Lyons. You have all these people. You have people working with Goran Parks and others back you know, there's so many ways that we can get tangled in.
Isaiah Winters:And who is who is this? Who's able to represent that? But I think with social media and with all the different things going on now, there's this constant rush for people to be to just be shocking or to have that next big shot or have that next big moment. And it's like you really have to as a photographer and especially as a documentary photographer, I know I get caught up, you know, in the weeds and just sitting ruminating on this stuff because it's like, am I the right person to am I even, you know, justified in telling the story? Is am I am I trying to steal someone else's narrative?
Isaiah Winters:Because, you know, the number one thing that upsets me is people being offended on my behalf or trying to tell stories, you know, on my behalf without even asking, you know, how I feel about it. So I love the I love the emergence of not even the emergence. The democratization of, like, you know, photography and shares and and and information getting out there to the public. But I've I'm I lean on the side and maybe this is the more conservative side of things is be careful because there's a lot of response. You know, it's like with great power comes great responsibility.
Isaiah Winters:I'm a comic guy. I'm a Spider Man Spider Man forever. I live and die by that same phrase when I go out and I take an image because you never know what that'll be used for. And aside from that, there were so many protesters who were arrested
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Isaiah Winters:From images of social media photographers and media photographers going out there not realizing you're not supposed to show people's faces like that if you don't have some type of consent. And you can make the argument that, oh, it's a public space. But think about that power. You, through no even thought or care, now someone who was maybe protesting on a side that you agree with is is in jail, or they're gonna be fined. So, yeah, there's a lot that people need to think about.
Isaiah Winters:And I think social media is toxic. We know it is, but we all have to use it. Yes. Be careful with what you're sharing out. And I I I got some of the best advice of my life from a photographer I really, respect.
Isaiah Winters:His name is Toots, and he's up based in in New York. And he's been doing covering the Bronx and women of color and porch like, he is just this guy is the best. And I met him early on in my career, and I'm I'm fortunate enough to still call him a friend and a mentor. And one of the things that he taught me and and I stick to is a lot of photographers say it, but, like, really practice it. When you get an image that you like or you get something, sometimes you just have to sit on it.
Isaiah Winters:You can't just post everything as soon as you're getting it. Sometimes those correlations don't come right away, and sometimes you don't even realize what you have right away. And I think that some of the images that have come out with these protests and others and things that, you know, certain things that have come out, I think if those photographers were had more time to think about it, maybe they would have made a different decision. Or maybe they would have represented things differently or at least had some type of cultural I don't wanna call them like a cultural liaison, but just some context for what it is that you're capturing, you know, because there's nothing more cringe than you just got people going into neighborhoods that they don't know anything about, and they're watching The Wire, and they're looking kinda they're, you know, and it's like, what are you actually trying to do here? Because what you're telling me you're doing without telling me is you're trying to capture stereotypes, and you're trying to capture just all these complicated things without any type of understanding of it.
Isaiah Winters:You know?
Rob Lee:I I remember, you need a cultural Sherpa. I wanted to get that in.
Isaiah Winters:But
Rob Lee:also, the the the podcast I was referring to earlier, so when they had the, the the situation there at Oriole Park in that whole area
Isaiah Winters:Right.
Rob Lee:It was interesting because my co host, he was down there at the game, and he's like, this is what happened. He's like, I don't give a shit what the
Isaiah Winters:city paper posted. Oh, I lived across the street. Yeah. It
Rob Lee:was a lot different. Yeah. And, he was just like he's like, I told someone my hands are rated e. Everybody can get them. And he was like, that's what it was.
Rob Lee:He's like, this is he's like, these angles are really weird. And, it it was it was funny because stuff was coming out real time and faster than the news outlets where he would've get it out there.
Isaiah Winters:Right. So
Rob Lee:it's like, yeah. Who's gonna be held accountable for for this? Who's delivering this retraction and so on? So leaving from that, I got a few few last questions here. Yes.
Rob Lee:So let's see. I wanna hit your what what do you if you have one? And I've and I've heard this is a thing. What is your most useful and I think you already said it. I think you you referenced, tubes and and with this, but what is your, photographic mantra?
Isaiah Winters:Oh, man. That is that is a tough one. I would say yeah. I guess I sort of touched on it, but I think for me, Joel Meyer Meyerowitz. So this is another this is a 19 seventies photographer, and he actually has been shooting color film for a while.
Isaiah Winters:White dude, he's in his seventies now. He had a a huge reemergence around the time of 9:11 where he went into ground 0, and a lot of those famous images, those color images were taken by him that day.
Rob Lee:Oh, wow.
Isaiah Winters:And he was just, yeah, he's a documented photographer, everyday photographer, was just out and really was able to capture, like, this is what is happening regardless of what you're seeing, you know, on the news. And for him, I've recently you know, the pandemic has opened up this weird thing where now people are a lot more accessible in a lot of cases. Yeah. And so I got to watch, Instagram live that he did, which I would you know, he's in his seventies. You know?
Isaiah Winters:I'm all these people are getting hooked up, and it's funny because they had, like there were technical difficulties and stuff and, like but they got it all worked out. And one of the things that he said is when he's going to capture an image that like, he knows this is what he wanted to capture, it's not necessarily a thing of like, alright, my settings are right. Everything's right. It's a, it's a feeling and it's cheesy and it's weird to anyone, you know, that doesn't shoot photography. But for me, when I take an image, if you look at a photo and it's on my it's on my feed or it's on my website, I was literally holding my breath when I took that image.
Isaiah Winters:And it just, it's almost like you get things set up and then I'm waiting for that, like, perfect zen moment where, like, you just feel it.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Isaiah Winters:In that second, there's no hesitation. And, you know, that's kind of he bolted down to, like, yeah. He he he gets this like swelling of him. You know, he was much more poetic with it, but it's essentially one of those things where like, I don't take an image. And this is a, this is a fact that I don't think I've ever shared.
Isaiah Winters:If I'm in a portrait setting or I'm shooting with people and I go to take an image and and it doesn't feel right, I will still I'll I'll do the 3, 2, 1. I just won't take it and, like, we'll go again. Yeah. So, like, for me, it has to you have to feel it. And, like, it's not even a, like, oh, this minute, I'm feeling it.
Isaiah Winters:Like, I'm inspired. It's like it's like a split second thing, for me. And I think it is for a lot of photographers. Photographers don't it's weird because, people don't talk about their process and everything, but we're we're so superstitious and we're so particular. You know, you look at baseball players and athletes and they got you know, they're rubbing their chain.
Isaiah Winters:They're doing all this. Photographers and artists do the same things. We just do them in different ways. You know? So, like, yeah, I have a weird thing where I'm just like, everything has to just be perfect.
Isaiah Winters:And, like, that breath is held, and then it's done. And then I'm just, you know, relief.
Rob Lee:It's a little Nomar Garcia Parra there.
Isaiah Winters:And Right.
Rob Lee:It it also sounded like the thing where you watch a a film a movie version of, like, a what a sniper does. It's like yeah. It's like, oh, and I'm gonna take and bang. It was like, oh, nope. Nope.
Rob Lee:Wind's off.
Isaiah Winters:Right. And then you go. You get up and walk. I've I've gotten into the process. Like, I'll get it.
Isaiah Winters:And I shoot on film, so it makes it much easier because it's so expensive. I'll take it, and then I don't even let myself second. It's just like, it's done. You got it. It's done.
Isaiah Winters:And sometimes I didn't get it, but, like, you know what? Following that mantra over the last few years, when I get a rollback, I'm like 70 I'm like 70, 80%. Like, I got what I needed. And when I was shooting digit you know, when you're shooting a 100 pictures of the same thing Mhmm. You're getting like a 10%.
Isaiah Winters:You know? Because it's like, oh, this could be perfect that I gotta and it's just like, no, man. Just trust yourself Right. And just do it. You know?
Rob Lee:Trusting your talent.
Isaiah Winters:We all have it. Yeah. We have it. Just trust it.
Rob Lee:So this is the last question that I have. Mhmm. What are you know, I don't wanna say just number 1 because that's gonna be a hassle. What are, let's say, maybe 3 of your favorite areas to shoot in Baltimore?
Isaiah Winters:Okay. Okay. That's a that's a really good one. I love to shoot gosh. And this has changed a bit because I'm thinking about the pandemic, and I'm like, gosh.
Isaiah Winters:I haven't really gone out to a lot of places. One of my favorite places to shoot is probably the Greenmount West area with all the, you know, there's so much graffiti, things like that. Just the the architecture with the mixture of, you know, you got your trees and everything. I love that mix of city, and like the outdoors and nature at the same time. So I like to shoot over there.
Isaiah Winters:North Ave has to be one of my favorite places to shoot. There's just always something going on, around North Ave, you know. It's just it's it's lively. And even when the you know, even with the pandemic and everything going on, like, it's just busy and I love that. And I love just life, the the feeling of there being life.
Isaiah Winters:Downtown doesn't really get as that busy. So I wouldn't say that I shoot downtown all that much. Let's say for my for a one more one more place. You know what? The area and this is still North Ave, just way, way in a different, location near Baltimore Cemetery.
Isaiah Winters:Yeah. And I think that's one of my most recent posts, but, like, I think it's a mixture of of different factors. I love just seeing black people out and about living their lives and not necessarily, kind of catering themselves to other demographics. It's just, like, people out just chilling. You got a lot more of the, like, bodega like setups out there, which reminds me of Brooklyn and that homey feel as well.
Isaiah Winters:And that sense of community, like, I don't think people understand how much community is built and, you know, some of these locations, some of the these corners and whatnot. And I think it's an unfortunate reason, but I find I just am so drawn to old signage, and businesses. And I love shooting over there, but I also hate it because it's I have you have all the old signage and businesses and boarded up things because of the shifts from, you know, all these for all these number, you know, these different factors, a number of reasons. So for me, I love capturing that because I want people to see it, and I want people to see why it's, like, beautiful, but not at the same time. And I want people to understand, like, what is going on in these areas as opposed to just what they see on the wire.
Isaiah Winters:So kind of a mix of locations. I like mount like, Mount Vernon is where I go if I just wanna be I don't wanna say lazy, but, like, if I just wanna stroll around and, like, practice taking pic you know, there's always gonna be light hitting, but it's designed that way. And, like, that's who lives you know, Mount Vernon is kinda Mount Vernon for a set reason. So, yeah, a bit of that. And then sometimes I'll go into the county.
Isaiah Winters:Sometimes I'll mess around in, like, Dundalk and stuff too. There's a lot of old businesses and whatnot, just outside the city that I like.
Rob Lee:Well, that's that's great. And some of my favorite areas to look at. So, I'd like to give every guest, on this, podcast a chance to shamelessly plug your website, your, Instagram Nice. Feel free. So the floor is yours.
Isaiah Winters:Yes. I appreciate it. So you all can find my new ish work. I mean, I gotta gotta update it, but my website is www.isaiarw.com. So it's isaiahrw.com, and that's the same exact spelling for my Instagram.
Isaiah Winters:So it's at isaiarw. You can find me there. I'm also at the be more creatives, for people who aren't familiar with that account as well. And that's just the be more creatives. We're over on that side doing more community based, work and and and shares and whatnot.
Isaiah Winters:But, yeah, that's that's kinda me. That's where you can find my work and please feel free to reach out. I know, things are weird now, but, like, people DM me. If you have a question about a certain film or a camera, like, I love I love that. I eat it up.
Isaiah Winters:Just let me know. I hope you find your your dream camera setup. So, yeah, check me out in those places.
Rob Lee:So that's it. I I'll do my sign off, for Isaiah Winters. Thank you for coming on to this podcast. Of course. Thank you for having me.
Rob Lee:This has been getting to the truth in this art saying that there is art anywhere. Photography everywhere in Baltimore. You just have to look for
