Welcome to the truth in our art. Your source for conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today, I am thrilled to welcome my next guest. She is the cofounder of CultureHouse, a Black and Brown woman owned media company reshaping the way race, gender, and identity are portrayed in media.
Rob Lee:Please welcome Carri Twigg. Welcome to the podcast.
Carri Twigg:Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Rob Lee:Thank you for coming on. Thank you for making the time. I'm I'm jealous of the the volume to the hair, but the hair is, like, is is doing its thing. I I I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
Carri Twigg:I appreciate you saying that. I'm relieved even though this clip might go on the Internet. I'm relieved this isn't a video podcast, generally speaking. But the top knot is always the sign of a woman at work. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:I I dig it. I have not gone to the barbershop in 3 weeks. This is why I have a hat on. I'm balding, but I have the hat on to come up stubble. So Alright.
Rob Lee:I'm appreciative. This is not a video podcast. No. So be before we go into, like, sort of the the the major topics of today's conversation, I I which is a custom for me. I like to give my guests the the space and the opportunity to, you know, just introduce themselves.
Rob Lee:I think a lot of times you get these bios, right, and you get these CVs, these artist statements, all of these different things, and somehow a detail is left out, something essential to who the person is. So I wanna give you the space to introduce yourself in your own words and, you know, share something that usually doesn't pop up in your bios.
Carri Twigg:Oh, man. The core truth of who I am. So I'm Carrie Twigg. I live in Los Angeles, California, but I'm from born and raised in Columbus, Ohio. I run a film, TV, and live immersive experiences company called Culture House that I founded with 2 other women in 2018.
Carri Twigg:I sort of think about myself as someone who does a lot of work at the intersection of pop culture and politics. I had a, like, 12 year career in politics before I got into cultural work. I write a lot. I am both on sort of sub stack, on culture, on politics, for our shows and the things that we make at Culture House. I am the baby of the family, and it shows up pretty often in my behavior.
Carri Twigg:My family is from Barbados on my father's side. My mother's side sort of, like, founded Ohio and has been in America for a very long time. And I love to read and I love to garden and I love to cook.
Rob Lee:Okay. And get you see, this is what happens when I let folks cook. Right? You know? So let them say their thing.
Rob Lee:It's just giving me more fuel for the rapid fire, so you might see me typing as we go along It's like yeah, so back to cooking right so you know how you said that like an hour ago. Let's dive into that a little bit And thank you for that and also the the youngest child the baby thing that's interesting I'm like a retroactive middle child, and I'm told that that's literally what it is. I learned that I had 2 older siblings that I didn't grow up with. So I went from being oldest to middle then somewhere in the middle, and we found you know, I had another brother. So, yeah.
Carri Twigg:Love a surprise sibling. I've had one of those myself.
Rob Lee:That's, it's pretty good. Just looking for my role.
Carri Twigg:Yeah.
Rob Lee:So storytelling, culture, representation, like, that's what I'm kind of hearing with your work and description and just sort of, obviously, the politics piece in there as well. You know, you said 12 years. For those who aren't familiar, who don't get it, you were touching on it, but could you describe, like, sort of the, you know, like, what you you do at this point? I know that the media thing with Culture House, that's a really big thing, but in terms of, like, impact, could you talk about that a bit?
Carri Twigg:Sure. I mean, we really focus on making long form TV shows. We made some film, some short film, mostly feature length documentary. But so we made a show called Ladies First, a story of women in hip hop that's about sort of not only the origin story of hip hop through the perspective of women, but also the ways the societal forces that have sought to control, to diminish, to shape that experience. Right?
Carri Twigg:The ways that we set up scarcities set up economies based on scarcity for women in a way that we don't for our male counterparts, the way that we erase the contributions, and the genius of black women and black girls in a way that we don't for their male counterparts. And so but with all the sort of style and fly and vibe of hip hop. Right? We made a show called Black Twitter that was out on Hulu this spring.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Carri Twigg:And that's a show about, like, all the jokes, right, on Black Twitter. But it's really about how black people interact with digital spaces, how we innovate, digital spaces, but also how digital spaces of today that black people congregate in and on are an extension of what we've always done, whether it was drum circles or, the Pullman Porters. Like, we have always found each other and shared information, shared culture, shared jokes, shared story. And black Twitter was just the latest iteration of that. Right?
Carri Twigg:It was a place where we went. It was the digital way that we went and got our cousins when some fit went down or when we wanted to get our jokes off or to play the dozens or whatever. And so that is a show yes. About a moment in time in particular digital iconography, but it's really also a discussion about how black people move ideas through culture. Yeah.
Carri Twigg:And so that is what we do at Culture House. We make television film that's about sort of a broader cultural reality and give it its political context and and sort of use entertainment as a way to further or contextualize a conversation that we think has resonance and value and importance to an audience.
Rob Lee:Thank you. And we're we're gonna go back into Culture House a little bit more, obviously, but I I wanna know and I I I just love sort of the breakdown. It had me thinking of all new questions to start asking, and then we'll just be here for 3 hours. We can't have that.
Carri Twigg:Go Rogan.
Rob Lee:Thank you. So what what was the the sort of moment that that set you on this path in in your career, like, you know, as far as, you know, parlaying from the politics background to, like, media and that being sort of the focus. And, you know, and I'll preface that with sort of I gave you a little bit before we got started of sort of the genesis of doing this. It was out of tightness, you know, but I've also been a podcaster for, like, 16 years. I felt like, you know, having this background was a way to try to tell and shape and share these stories and archive sort of the stories of this community.
Rob Lee:But what was the moment that sort of set you on this path creatively and from a career standpoint?
Carri Twigg:You know, it wasn't a moment. It was a series of moments. It was this experience I had when I was working at the White House. And sort of no matter where I went around the country, or to be frank, around the world with the president or the vice president or on my own, when I would tell people that I worked at the white house, they could not or often would not be able to repeat back with much accuracy what we were doing, what we were about, what we stood for, the fights we lost, and how we lost them. Right?
Carri Twigg:So there were people who were like, oh, you haven't done anything for black people. It's like, what are you talking about? We've done this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this. Or you you did this, and it was really I I I'm against it. It's like, we didn't do that.
Carri Twigg:Why would why why do you think we did that? And so there was just this massive gap often. 90% of the times that I would interact with anyone outside of DC, they just didn't. They were they either had no idea what they were talking about or they thought something that was true wasn't or vice versa. And it was this realization that everyone in America can name every Kardashian.
Carri Twigg:Like, everyone knows who won the Super Bowl. Everyone knows who Taylor Swift is dating or whatever the example was, and yet people don't know what the president is doing.
Rob Lee:Right.
Carri Twigg:Like, what on earth? You know? And, so it was just this dawning realization that I think not just me, but so many people in the Obama era had that our civic life and our cultural life are just too far apart. Like, they're not there isn't enough overlap in that Venn diagram.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Carri Twigg:And so I think it's not a coincidence that you saw so many people, including the Obamas, go into storytelling after their White House era.
Rob Lee:Yeah. So and I and I see that there is that connection between, like, you know, policy politics and and storytelling and that sort of shape on society. We're recording this, what, a few weeks after the most recent election. And you you mentioned a name that in the podcast circles, there's been some some sort of tightness around sort of that level of impact and how those endorsements work or even, you know, one of the other things you you touched on, as far as, like, just folks not being aware of what's actually happening, what the president is doing, and and so on. And I find, like, as I watch podcasts, well well, listen to podcasts and watch, like, clips, just folks are just kinda spouting stuff, and it just turns into a snowball of almost misinformation.
Rob Lee:And the the sort of lack of responsibility is there at times. And, and not to go too far down that rabbit hole, but I think there is an impact on sort of the stories that are told and the narratives that are put out there and where they're coming from.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I don't know. The more I do this work, the more I realize that, basically, any human endeavor any human endeavor is a storytelling exercise. Politics is a storytelling exercise.
Carri Twigg:We think of it mostly as only in a very specific, like, narrative context, but everything we do is telling a story about who we are, what we value, or what we believe. And, we've allowed in America so many like, you go to Europe and that you watch the news. It's totally different. Like, it's just just different. Right?
Carri Twigg:The cultural values allow for different types of regulation around who can say what and in what spaces around what these platforms are able to do and say and distribute. And there's pluses and minuses to that, that I'm happy to, like, debate with people, I suppose. I'm actually never happy to bait to debate with people, but and I can that I'm willing to accept a range of of opinions as perfectly and equally valid. I, but the reality is that we have a particular story that we tell in America about the sort of rugged individualism and the, the kind of downstream consequences of allowing everyone to figure it out for themselves means that there are very few safeguards or guardrails for people to figure out what's actually happening in the world around them.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Even even in this space, like, you know, I I shared a little bit, and then I've talked about this on several podcasts at this point of going into the education space and teaching, like, the next generations of podcasters, and I don't get questions on mic technique, on storytelling. I get questions on, how do you monetize this? I was like, do you have a podcast? Do you actually have an opinion or something that's new?
Rob Lee:And I use this adage, or this example. I'm like, yo, a couple years ago, everyone did an entanglement podcast. They're not good. Don't do that. Do something original.
Rob Lee:Have your own take.
Carri Twigg:What are entanglement podcasts?
Rob Lee:The the Jada Pinkett, Will Smith. I was entangled with everyone had the same take, and it is nothing original or interesting about it, but it was sort of this idea that this is what's selling. This is what is getting engagement on social media, so we all should have to have something to say on this topic.
Carri Twigg:Got it.
Rob Lee:And that and that's sort of the thing. It's just do something original and especially if, like, sort of, like, new stories and and and things of that nature. It's just like this story is still developing. You're you're not a journalist or or whatever the
Carri Twigg:There's been this weird I mean, human beings, it's like the Internet's like, the Internet's a great idea, just not for humans. You know? It's just, like, not it's, like, not good for us, to be perfectly honest. I mean, brilliant, but just not it's not for us. The the fact that you can't the fact that, like, the average human being is, like, because I can share an opinion on something automatically means that that opinion that has merit Mhmm.
Carri Twigg:Is really amazing. You know? It's like, because there's now this platform where I can share all of my thoughts that endows all of my thoughts with value.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Carri Twigg:And so then we fit like, it's just this incredible cycle that is just absolutely terrible for human beings. It makes us all, like, wildly miscalibrated to, the world around us into, like, reality, but here we are.
Rob Lee:Yes. And before I move into this next question, I'll I'll say this sort of last thing. It's it I've seen it making the rounds recently, the the clip from a old Dave Chappelle special of, like, what does Ja Rule think? It's like, I don't care. I don't care what Ja Rule thinks about this this political thing or whatever the story is.
Rob Lee:And even this other notion of just that sort of different sense of reality of folks not, you know, actually talking to individuals. We have a harder time doing that with social media, but we can talk to chat and just throw out there out there into the ether. And, you know, it's it's nothing it's I don't I don't know if it's healthy. I'll just put that way.
Carri Twigg:I I I don't think it is healthy. I mean, I think it's kind of, almost unassailable that it's not healthy. I, yeah, I mean but this is another one of, like, our great human fragilities or failures is that we think that be something that makes someone really talented in one respect means that they're uniformly talented across the board. Like, this pedestaling that we do. Like, you're really you're a good rapper, and you had some bops in the early odds.
Carri Twigg:Jaw ruled. Therefore, I should care about what you have to say about literally anything else
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Carri Twigg:Is is just is incredible. Right? The way that we over know I don't know how many times we've been burned by the fact that, like, someone's a really great performer and then therefore that we are shocked when we find out they're not great people. It's like this idea that because you are brilliant or great or exceptional genius at one thing means you can do other stuff well has been proven false over and over and over and over and over again. And it's often true about us as individuals.
Carri Twigg:Like, every individual has this one thing that they're probably really, really good at and then a bunch of things that they're terrible at. And yet we fall into this trap of, like, like, who cares about Kanye West's political opinion? It's like, he doesn't know anything about like, who cares?
Rob Lee:Right.
Carri Twigg:And yet because he's a musical genius, which is, like, not for me to even judge, I'm not even qualified to make that assertion. But because I'm told he's a musical genius, it's like, then we're supposed to care what he says about literally anything outside of music. Like, why?
Rob Lee:Right. Or, you know, we we factor in, like, oh, you have this much influence. You have millions of followers. Yeah. That's kinda dangerous and it's kinda weird.
Rob Lee:And
Carri Twigg:But that's on the followers' fault. Like, you can't blame people. Again, everyone has the same thing. It's people who are, like, fall listen to what he says about music. Don't listen to anything else.
Carri Twigg:You don't need to buy his shoes. Those things are hideous. Like, sorry. But might be a spicy take, but Yeezys are hideous.
Rob Lee:They they are. They are.
Carri Twigg:And the but, like, that's on the follower's fault. I don't even blame the artist for that. I you know, they can't help it if people like them listen to what they have to say. That's on that's on them. That's on y'all.
Rob Lee:And I and I'll comment on on the on the sort of Trump thing since that's sort of as I shared earlier where this kinda started. I just remember, you know, I did a different podcast before starting this, and we would pay attention to politics or what have you, and just have, like, sort of, you know, just our takes on it, what have you, just being engaged in that way and following it. And I swear to my my buddy and my co host at the time, we were talking about it, and I was like, that dude's qualified? I was like, how? And it it was literally that, and we were having sort of this debate on this, actor.
Rob Lee:They had an opinion around politics, and it's like, well, this person shouldn't have an opinion. I was, like, yeah, but someone with maybe less credibility who's a reality TV person is able to run for the office. I was, like, what are we we doing here? And this is this podcast is working currently.
Carri Twigg:Fame was already a bad idea, and then we gave it then we added the Internet. It's just a disaster.
Rob Lee:Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I wanna I wanna shift because this this it this will end up going into a whole different sphere where I'm barely able to jab with your background.
Rob Lee:And you said you read books. That's another thing. But so, you know, background media politics, it's I think has a, how how has it shaped your approach to storytelling and sort of with that foundation in in storytelling and politics and sort of, you know, could you share the, I guess, the genesis and the creation of of Culture House? Like, what was that story? What what inspired the creation and sort of you you touched on the mission.
Rob Lee:What what was that story around the creation of Culture House?
Carri Twigg:Yeah. So there's a couple different questions in that. I think and one I would love to get into, I think we generally underestimate what a science storytelling is, but we can go we can go into that in a minute. The origin story of Culture House is that I was working at the White House. I wanted to figure out how things got on television once I left the White House.
Carri Twigg:And so I when I left the White House, it was, like, the spring of 2016. It was before Donald Trump was president. I was pretty sure at this, like, very loose thesis that we were underestimating the power of television to determine political outcomes sort of as a whole. You know, 6 months later, I was proven right when we elected a television star president. But I moved to New York and started consulting for a bunch of different media companies, including, like, a bunch of Viacom brands and was working with Refinery 29 on something.
Carri Twigg:And then through that process, met my now business partner, was set up on a friend date, actually. Someone was just like, hey. Like, you're new in New York. You should really meet Raysham. She's a legend.
Carri Twigg:I think you guys would hit it off. We meet for a drink or something, and we did hit it off, and she's amazing. And 7 years later, we have a business.
Rob Lee:Wow. That's that's pretty cool.
Carri Twigg:Pretty much that simple. The very first time we met, we came up with the idea that we later sold to Netflix as our women in hip hop documentary, Ladies First.
Rob Lee:Wow. So, you know, getting out of, you know, sort of that that 2016, then then sort of the the friend dating, connecting, and that, and being able to just come to, like, this this is I guess, is where you're where you're at at times and having the background.
Carri Twigg:Say that again?
Rob Lee:I guess it's being way where you're at. Like, you're you're in New York or what have you, and having that sort of being there in that that community. You're you're new there in New York, and you're able to get connected to your your business partner, your creative partner here. That's that sounds like really cool. It almost sounds like, you know, that's the way that these things should work.
Carri Twigg:But I think that's often the way that they do if you're open. Right? And I think it's like, I didn't meet her. I think if I'd been going around trying to meet a business partner, I wouldn't I'm sure I would have met somebody, but Ray and Nicole, the third woman who started the company with us, like, they are I I feel extraordinarily blessed. I have the best business partners in the world.
Carri Twigg:I wouldn't have found them if I were looking for them. Right? But I think I was just open and was looking for people who I thought were interesting and intellectually, like, on the same wavelength, so on and so forth. And so you end up finding someone that you can build a relationship with. And then we didn't start the business that day.
Carri Twigg:Right? We came up with this idea that we would continue to talk about over the course of months months. And but I think that's often how it goes. You know? Like, people are put into your path.
Carri Twigg:And if you're curious and you're willing to share and you're willing to sort of engage, then the the opportunities to build things are are ample. You know?
Rob Lee:That's that's great. I that's that's that's great. It's a sense it's inspirational in that way where, you know, curiosity, like being drawn by because it is this thing that I I encounter. I know that a lot of folks encounter sort of the I think you touched on it earlier, the rugged individualism, like, oh, you should be anointed to have this, but, you know, you kinda connect with folks however you get there, but you connect with folks who have similar interests, curiosities, and then you're able to kinda build something really cool and really unique that you all feel that this this hits. This is representative of what what we could do, what we may want to do.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. I think we have a bad habit in society of being really outcome oriented. And so I see that in creative work a lot, but I even see it in life. It's like people go on a date, and it's like, or could I marry this person? There's like, girl, the point of going on a date with someone is to know if you wanna go on a second date.
Carri Twigg:Like, the and it's the same thing of collaborators. It's it's like, do I find you interesting? Am I still thinking about something you said or introduced me to days after we met? Like, do I wanna talk to you again? Right?
Carri Twigg:And I think if I think so often we are taught to focus on or we're actually we're not only just taught, but we're sort of trained. I think Instagram does this. Social media just shows us the end result of often years, if not I mean, months, weeks, but often years of work and collaboration and thinking and iteration. Right? People don't put their drafts up, but there's draft upon draft upon draft upon draft and failure upon failure upon failure.
Carri Twigg:And all of that gets you to this end point. But if you think that the beginning is supposed to look like the end, you won't actually even get started. Right. And so letting the, like letting in a little room for mystery and curiosity, I think is one of the most important things is people are trying to figure out how to navigate their life, their friends, a new city, a new project, a new business, like all of the, everything, You
Rob Lee:know? Yeah. It's I hear all the time. It's about sort of those those reps and and being in love with sort of the or being curious about the process, not just, well, I need to get let's say if I have a goal of doing a 100 interviews in a year. Alright.
Rob Lee:We're at a 100 now. This was success and defining it by these sort of rigid ideas versus, hey. I'm at episode 51. This was a great conversation. I really enjoyed.
Rob Lee:I'm really into it, and I'm enjoying doing this. And episode 52, I kinda sucked. I wasn't great, but I learned from it. I was able to be better at 53 and so on. It's it's those those sort of reps.
Rob Lee:It's the the wins, the challenging parts, and so on that makes up that sort of full body of work, that full body of time, I suppose.
Carri Twigg:Totally.
Rob Lee:So for for you, could you speak on, like, you know, a challenge that that comes to mind when you think about sort of the the work with CultureHouse? Like, just something that sticks out as, like, this was tough. This was a really challenging period, project or just period within, you know, the sort of trajectory of Culture House.
Carri Twigg:Oh my god. Talk about being here for hours. I mean, the whole damn thing has been hell. It's been amazing. Don't get me wrong.
Carri Twigg:I love it. I'm happy I'm doing it. I'm pretty sure I would do it again given the chance. But, like, it's it's running a business is hard. It is awful.
Carri Twigg:And film and TV is in this the middle of this, like, total restructuring. Right? You had the the historic double writers or the writers' strike. You had the, pandemic where you couldn't shoot anything in person. You had the Netflix Wall Street correction.
Carri Twigg:You've had flattening budgets. You've had never had more competition, to get people to watch your thing, which is directly tied to your compensation, your ability to make work again. There's the fact that by nature, because these projects are so expensive, you basically have to ask permission to make your work, at the scale that we're doing it, right, we have to get the permission of our distributor to to make things. Yes. You can make things independently.
Carri Twigg:I encourage everyone to do that as best as you possibly can. Everyone has a camera in their pocket. If you wanna be a filmmaker, like, you can make as many films as you want. However, to get something on Netflix, you have to go and ask Netflix if you can make it, and they can say yes or no. And, like, that in its own right is extraordinarily challenging.
Carri Twigg:The algorithms, the way that we are moving towards a cultural landscape where the things that have worked in the past are prioritized over the things that might work and innovation in the future, the flattening out of tastes, right, and and preferences. The fact that every coffee shop looks the same. That's like the standard of beauty is actually narrowing instead of widening. It's really difficult. So, I mean, shall I go on?
Rob Lee:Oh, no. No. No. No. No.
Rob Lee:That's that's great because especially with especially with some of the stuff that that I've been been read I've been rereading the depth of the artist, and that's, you know, covered in it. You know, sort of those those ideas, the the algorithms, how our tastes are, oh, this is what you want. It's just kind of the same thing, a hits ahead, Or even going a little bit further back as remember, it's one book. I'm blanking on the name, but it's this concept and design, the whole Maya concept, most advanced yet acceptable, what have you. And it's like, this is slightly different, but it's kind of the same thing.
Rob Lee:This always works, and you're you're pointing around coffee shops. I go I spent a lot of time in coffee shops, and it's like, this is the same. And I think that's what I was trying to get over with the the the the point around the Entanglement podcast. It's just like, well, this is a formula that's acceptable. Let's just do our own version of it.
Rob Lee:And while maybe that's fine or what have you, but which pushing the canon, which is leading to discourse and granted, you know, money and the, the attention economy as I've been, you know, hearing more and more about is, you know, how do you hook someone? How do you you get someone, and how do you get something that you can get funding or even, you know, you can get a grant or something that's sort of in the the other scale of things like that's impacting how people are making work and some of the considerations that they, you know, take into account. So with that in mind, you know, what is like, maybe a criteria, if you will, that you use for for stories maybe now that it's like all of it past a certain parameter of, like, I think this is an interesting story. But with those considerations of, hey, Netflix, we wanna make this, what what sort of other considerations may maybe you're making, you know, now as, you know, within Culture House that it may have been a little different, let's say, a couple years ago, you know, as far as, like, this has to definitely be a win in this way.
Rob Lee:This has to make this much, or this has the potential to make this much money or whatever it may be.
Carri Twigg:I've never really worked like that for better or for worse. I mean, I'd probably have a more successful business if I did. But I am really reluctant to kind of cater to taste in that way. Like, I only wanna make things that I find interesting. And the reality is making a TV show takes years.
Carri Twigg:And so if I'm not gonna be interested enough to talk about it basically every day for two and a half, three years, and I can't do it because I don't wanna do work that I don't like. And so finding something that is interesting enough and then making the case that it is a worthy project, that it's clear that the vision is articulated in a way that makes sense, that visually it'll be compelling and engaging and inspiring, and that will take you on a journey that you'll you'll you'll be a different version of yourself on the other side of it. Like, making sure that you make good on all of those promises that actually capture attention and that, live up to the ideals of what entertainment is supposed to be. Like, making sure something meets that criteria as well as that it suits something. That's something I wanna put my name on.
Carri Twigg:That it's something that I wanna spend the one thing I can't get back time on. You know? Because if I only did what the what I knew would sell, all I'd be making is shows about dead white girls, like murdered white girls. But it's true. I'd be picking a murdered white girl television show factory.
Carri Twigg:Like, it'd be awful, and, like, that sounds like hell.
Rob Lee:That's well, that's a that's a good point. It's a good point. You know, I've I've run into it in in doing this, you know, like, oh, you should talk to these sorts of folks when I'm out there with the figurative, like, you know, hat in hand. Maybe it's this hat. I don't know.
Rob Lee:But, like, do you have a check, sir, to, you know, help me fund this next season? And it's it's weird. It's weird sort of the the notes and the pitches that come back. And similarly to this sort of scale, I'm like, I'm not really interested in that, or that doesn't appeal to me, or that doesn't match my taste. And, you know, it's hard to be enthusiastic about it as you you were touching on being able to talk about, you know, a particular thing that you're interested in working on for a certain period of time.
Rob Lee:Like, when I talk to someone about doing this, it's not TV is but it's sort of my my thing. I can't think the excitement, you know, like when I was chatting around, like, I guess I'm interviewing today. They're like, why are you smiling so much? I was like, because I'm going to do moderate. No.
Rob Lee:Like, I'm I'm looking forward to it. And, you know, I say it all the time. You can't fake enthusiasm. You can't fake curiosity. And when some of these pitches come over, you know, we have a PR person or we have this great opportunity, there have been instances where I'm like, I I don't know.
Rob Lee:Sure. That that money sounds great or the opportunity sounds great in theory, but I don't know if it fits what I'm doing. I'm I'm probably not the right person for it because I'm not really into it. And I've had conversations with folks who will tell me I'm bugging, that I'm bugging for turning down opportunities and money because the thing doesn't interest me. Oh, just fake it.
Carri Twigg:Listen. I'm not saying they're wrong. I I I they're probably right. Take the cash. I don't know what to tell you.
Carri Twigg:But, like, for me personally, I like, it just won't that's just not what I wanna do. I don't know that it's I don't know that it's the right thing.
Rob Lee:No. I I like, I think we're I think we're on the same page here as well.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. I mean, it's a real bummer, but, I mean, I wish I could just do whatever it took for cash, but I just I I'm just not I don't have it in me, unfortunately, despite trying.
Rob Lee:So I I read and so I got I got 2 more sort of, like, real questions for you.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And I have I have one, that that came up. I've read about cultural consultancy. Could you take us through what what that is and why it's so important?
Carri Twigg:Yeah. I mean, that is that's obviously gone away since we've elected Trump president again, but it used it used to be that people on team would were gonna put things on television and, big screens cared whether or not they were racist or sexist, you know, before the DE and I backlash. So there's less of that now. Obviously, being canceled is no longer a thing. So do what you want.
Carri Twigg:Be president.
Rob Lee:I I remember it was a Hulu show that I think had, it was it was a plot point in it. The I think it was the the other black girl.
Carri Twigg:And it was
Rob Lee:just, like, this this publisher, and he wrote this book, and it was about, I don't know, Appalachia. And he he's a white, you know, author, and he writes about this black woman character in there, but the name is so wild. It's like Aquanesha or something, and the black girl's like, can we bring in a sensitivity reader on this or a couple? Because we need to go through we can publish this.
Carri Twigg:Oh, yeah. There are gonna be a lot less of that these days.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And, you know, as I see more and more folks kinda, like, creep out, you know, from the from the shadows in that that vein of yeah. You know how I was saying these, like, fill it really funny jokes you guys were into? Yeah. I'm actually terrible, and I support this guy in this way, and canceling doesn't exist.
Rob Lee:Look. I'm still here. It's it's wild, and it's just like, can we have a standard of, like, taste? Oh, no. Not at all.
Carri Twigg:No. But, I mean, to be perfectly honest, those things have always been so hard. I don't know. It's it's really tricky. Right?
Carri Twigg:It's sort of like anyone who is offering a product, whether that product is art or some sort of consumer packaged good, is going to that wants to do so for for a mass audience is going to give audiences what audiences want.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Carri Twigg:And so there's I'm always sort of stuck on this debate about whether or not it's is it the producer's fault, or is it the consumer's fault? And, like, people like, Cardi B talks about this in a way that's really interesting. She's like, listen. I make songs that are about emotional, heartfelt stuff. Y'all don't listen to them.
Carri Twigg:Okay. It's in songs about, I don't know if I can swear on this thing, but it's like, there are songs about my wet ass pussy that go to number 1 and songs about my broken little heart that y'all got no streams on. So I'm in this to make money.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Carri Twigg:And I will get, I will do what allows me to be successful. And so, you know, apply that to comedians. Apply that to commentators. Apply that to content creators. Apply that to Netflix and their their 35 100 shows about murdered white girls.
Carri Twigg:Like, is it really whose fault is it, honestly? Like right?
Rob Lee:No. You you absolutely. Absolutely. It's it it goes back to, sort of blame blaming, but the the blaming the followers. It's like, but you followed this.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. Y'all like this shit. This is okay. That's a good point. I don't know.
Carri Twigg:Like, don't look at Joe. Don't look at Joe Rogan. Like, y'all the ones, 50,000,000 views. Like, what are you talking about?
Rob Lee:And, you know, we it's it's always I'm always curious as to those instances where, you know, in that climate, well, this is the one we're actually gonna be outraged on. Like, really? Why? Why is now suddenly we have this sort of outrage conscious, but this has been going on. This is sort of the I guess I guess this is sort of the the the the the the what we're doing right now.
Rob Lee:This is what we accept. This is what is sort of rewarded, I guess, with followers of monetary gain.
Carri Twigg:It's all about new. Yeah. It's also about new. Listen listen to rock and roll. Listen to jazz.
Carri Twigg:Listen to so listen to anything lyrical Yeah. That existed in human and the hit like, there's there's been wildly problematic. Like, somebody did a study about how many times James Bond as a character across the franchise slaps women across the face. And it's like, it's not 4.
Rob Lee:And he's a hero.
Carri Twigg:This is what I'm saying. Right? Like, John Wayne just slapping chicks across the face. Like, calm down. Like, Right?
Carri Twigg:Right. Like like, this is not this dynamic is not new. And so the one thing that has continued to endorse people's consumption of it.
Rob Lee:Yeah. So so as we we we move to the wrap up portion, I wanna I wanna frame this. I wanna make make this a different question I normally would have asked. Usually people wrap, oh, you have any advice you wanna share with the blah blah blah, and it's just like
Carri Twigg:Have I have I bounced myself out of consideration for giving good advice?
Rob Lee:No. No. No. I think everything that you've said is good advice. I'm I'm sitting here rethinking my my process as a podcaster in this the universe.
Rob Lee:But, I'll I'll frame it like this. What is what is the question that in the these interviews that you wish you were asked? That's that's sort of the way I wanna wrap it up there, like, with, you know, some of the stuff that we've touched on, sort of there's been some interesting takes here, which I really dig. I really value. I'm like, oh, she's inside of my head right now.
Rob Lee:But what would be that that question, like, with with your background and your sort of knowledge around, like, television and making these these these projects that I think have a well, obviously, they have a cultural representation. It broadens that. It broadens sort of conversations, I think, on on race and and and gender. So what is the question that you, you know, wanna be asked? Almost a softball to yourself.
Carri Twigg:First of all, Rob, how you gonna have me on your podcast and make me do the work? Okay? 2nd of all
Rob Lee:It's because I gotta make it easy for myself. You know, I'm just lazy black man.
Carri Twigg:Right? 2nd of all, to be honest, I actually don't even I just that's a deflection. Like, I just don't even know. It's it's weird. I don't, I've act I don't know.
Carri Twigg:It's like, I don't find myself all that interesting. Right? Like I live with myself all the time. So none of this is new to me. None of these ramblings, none of these little mini rants.
Carri Twigg:Like I'm just waddling around my kitchen ranting about this stuff all day long anyway. So to me, I don't know what it's all inside my head, so I can't really take an outsider's perspective if you know what I mean. So sorry.
Rob Lee:Then I'll give you the question that I was trying not to give you then. What would be that piece of advice, you know, for someone going into exploring media, you know, collaboration and sort of I'll for for lack of better terms, I'll say, helping present to the stories that matter. What would you what piece of advice would you share with someone that's interested and curious about
Carri Twigg:that? Yeah. I mean, if you can, I would do something else? It's it's such a bad industry. Film and TV is such a bad industry, especially right now.
Carri Twigg:I just, like, give it a couple years. Sure. Perfectly honest. Absent that, I would be very if you, like, have to do it, fine. But I would be really focused on building up your own IP.
Carri Twigg:Like, what is the what is your podcast idea? What is like, you have all these free tools. Right? There's so many things you can do for free that can turn into something. So it's like, do the go the ESA route and, like, make something for yourself and put put it on Instagram or put it on YouTube or put it on Substack or put it on whatever the platform is for the modality that you're using from the medium that you're using.
Carri Twigg:Like, make yours make something for yourself, experiment, iterate, do as much as you can on your own with the homies, and then build up that IP catalog and have these ideas that you own that you've already built a track record for. And then you can sell as, like, licensing or franchising or acquisitions versus, these streamers always wanna buy things in perpetuity. Right? People wanna buy the IP, and then you don't have any say over where it goes, how it lives, what its future is, or make any money off of it after that. And so, you know, go get go get your job, do what you need to do to pay your bills.
Carri Twigg:But if you're thinking about making things, it's like, try your best to make things in a way that allows you to retain as much ownership over it as possible. And the best way to do that is to build a track record of it. So like actually publish something. You have all these free online tools in order to do that. Right?
Rob Lee:That's really great advice. Thank you. I'm using that for myself, actually. Just
Carri Twigg:Great. Great.
Rob Lee:It's great. And, you know, I've I've heard that more and more, just different pieces of it, but not said in a sort of succinct way, the way that that you put it. I've heard even this week, it was an interview, I think, with the kid, Miro, and he was just like, read your contracts, learn what the words in perpetuity. Yeah. And even in in doing this, as I touched on a little bit earlier, sort of the the the the premier the the prime thing that matters to me in doing this is the independent nature.
Rob Lee:Like, I've had, you know, an opportunity is to do this based in Baltimore. I've had folks just say, oh, you should just only do interviews in Baltimore. Why are you talking to people outside of there? And I was like, well, it's my vision. It's what I what I wanna do.
Rob Lee:And I think that this person's interesting, and then someone is, like, almost explaining my my interest and my taste. It's it's it's a very interesting thing, but not having to do that because I want to remain independent. So definitely aligning with that and building out this content in this this sort of catalog and archive. So I wanna move into the rapid fire questions if you're, you know, inclined to give me a give me a few minutes of your time. Yeah.
Carri Twigg:Let's do it.
Rob Lee:Alright. So I got 3 questions. I've added 2. It was just 1, and you were saying different things. I was like, alright.
Rob Lee:You got some you got some more questions. Alright. So here's the first one. It's gonna be ridiculous. I remember back in the day when I was a kid, I wanted to be Bruce Leroy from The Last Dragon.
Rob Lee:Looking back, was there a character or representation in media? Maybe a movie, maybe maybe a book or something that really resonated with you. You felt maybe seeing like, oh, I I like this person.
Carri Twigg:I insisted everyone in my family call me Tiger Lily for, like, a year. He's the Indian princess in Peter Pan.
Rob Lee:Wow. Nice.
Carri Twigg:Nice. Was the only brown character I'd ever seen. This is, like, pre Tatiana. Like, there was none of that when I was growing up. And so she was the only brown Disney figure at all.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. Didn't matter to me that she was native American, and I am black, but she's she's all I had. So, yeah. So I used to make people call me tiger Lily. And I would have my dad braid my hair into because she has these long, like, pigtail braids.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Carri Twigg:I would have my dad and obviously, like, black hair doesn't lay like that in the same way. So, like, mine would, like, curl back up, but I was, like, constantly trying to pull them down so they'd hangs like Tiger Lily. Terrible.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. That's great.
Carri Twigg:His name is the worst. I mean, it's great, but you know what I mean.
Rob Lee:I I found as a kid, it's like, yo, Bruce Lee was a black nerd. I'm here for it. And as I got a little bit older, I was like, nah. I kinda wanna be like, show enough. I kinda just Yeah.
Carri Twigg:Sure. Sure.
Rob Lee:I wanna have shoulder pads on.
Carri Twigg:I was like, maybe I don't wanna be a stereotypical, like, nonverbal Indian princess. But what did I know then? You know?
Rob Lee:Yes. It's a it's a different time when you were a kid.
Carri Twigg:Different time. It was the eighties. What do you want from there?
Rob Lee:Same. So you've mentioned cooking is a thing that you enjoy.
Carri Twigg:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:What's what's your dish? What what is the dish that you're like? I make a pretty good like, I make a good crab cake.
Carri Twigg:Okay. I make a good crab cake. Don't make them very often. I I mean, I'm I like everything. I make a great roast chicken.
Carri Twigg:I make good fried chicken. I do a good curry. I do a good, bolognese. I do a good yeah. I don't know.
Carri Twigg:I can kinda cook cook whatever.
Rob Lee:Hello, jealous over here. You kinda just, you know, say, yeah. That would be good crab cake, but also these things that you don't know how to make, Rob. I know you didn't say that.
Carri Twigg:I can't bake. I don't bake, but I I can cook.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I think I think cooking is like free jazz where, you know
Carri Twigg:Oh, that.
Rob Lee:100 jazz chemistry.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. It's like, why are you bossing around? Quit telling me what to do in my own house.
Rob Lee:You know what I mean? Right. Okay. This is this is the last one, and I this is almost lifted directly out of a podcast I listened to you on. So I love a good rant.
Rob Lee:You know? So what is your your hottest take? Like, I I noticed you you enjoy a rant. You're you're you're a person that has a rant every now and again. Right?
Rob Lee:So what's the rant that's, like, right there for you maybe this week or today? I rant daily. I have a different rant per week. But I was
Carri Twigg:Gotta keep it fresh. You know? Yeah.
Rob Lee:It's like a RSS feed of rants. That's what the RSS feed is.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. What's my I mean, I have so many go to rants. I am so much fun in the dinner party. I'm sure you can imagine. I I think people shouldn't watch reality TV.
Carri Twigg:I think that people need to take boycotting television way more seriously. I think people need to understand that they live on an algorithm and everything that they watch. Like, do not hate watch anything. Yeah. If you hate watch anything, all you're doing is contributing to make sure there's more of that in the world.
Carri Twigg:Don't watch things that don't support the culture or that don't support the version of the world you wanna see. So don't watch fuck boy island. Don't watch the Kardashians. Don't watch, Emily in Paris or whatever. Like, I get it.
Carri Twigg:People wanna escape, but the reality is you're creating demand for things. And if people don't understand that that we in the same way that we have historically had so much success from boycotting certain products and, certain places and certain people, like, we need to apply that to our cultural products too. Otherwise that's all we're going to get. Like, don't watch shows where girls are murdered in the first five minutes. Like just don't do it, turn it off.
Carri Twigg:They're tracking all of that. And so people need to be a think a little bit more responsible if they care about the world. If you don't care about the fine. Do whatever you want. But if you care about the world that we're creating, you need to take seriously all the stuff that you're consuming.
Rob Lee:It's it's a really good point. And it it sits there, like, you know, when I back in the day before, I just became somewhat aware of the these different things on, like, social media. Why am I getting all of these weird fight videos and so on? It's just like, oh, because it's getting no response. That's why it's popping up in your your algorithm, and they're using this in a and at the time, a less refined way.
Rob Lee:But as it learns, it's gonna be popping up more and more often. And I think sort of the the barometer and being able to make your own stuff, that's that's fantastic and and all of that. But I I think of sort of those instances where, you know, I always I say this, meanwhile, I'm floundering when I see, like, Tala Prairie post this thing of I've done this many treatments or this many scripts on a flight, and then I see people on social media, man, Beauty and Black is amazing. Like, is it? It's it's a what?
Rob Lee:I don't know if it's alright. Cool. Support Black. It's like, I I guess, don't we can we do something better? Nah.
Rob Lee:This is a viral hit. It's like, sure. Sure.
Carri Twigg:Yeah. And the thing is there's so much people are making incredible stuff.
Rob Lee:Yes.
Carri Twigg:There's so much dope shit in the world. There's so much dope art. There's so much dope, like television and film and podcast and all and writing and all of it. And it's just like, yeah. You might have to work a little bit harder for it, but, like, there is a reward to that.
Carri Twigg:You will get, like, a dopamine hit from, like, finding something cool and watching it versus sort of passively absorbing whatever Netflix that the, like, dudes at Netflix think you wanna watch or the dudes at wherever. And, you know, back in the it's like the modern version of digging through the crates for records or, like, opening a CD and getting taking out the liner notes and, like, learning lyrics the old fashioned way, like all this stuff, you know, like, you might have to work a little bit harder for it, but it's there. People are making inch amazing, amazing stuff.
Rob Lee:That's that's that's great. That's a great point. It's a great point to close on. So there's 2 things I wanna do as we wrap up here. 1, I wanna thank you for coming on to spend a sip of time with me.
Carri Twigg:My pleasure.
Rob Lee:And and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you to share in the final moments. This is the shameless plug. I I think it's just you you should plug. You should plug the things, your social media, website, or anything that you wanna share in these final moments. The floor is yours.
Carri Twigg:Oh, so funny. Did you know that I also do a podcast?
Rob Lee:I might have seen that.
Carri Twigg:Political podcast, called Twigg and Jenkins, which is my last name and my friend Brad's last name. We shared an office at the White House, and so we needed a place to put our ranting that wasn't just our FaceTimes. Like, we have we are like we shared an office 10 years ago. We've stayed really close. He's one of my closest friends.
Carri Twigg:We always call each other when some political shit was going down, and we decided to inflict that on the masses. So we started a podcast, called Twig and Jankels on YouTube and Spotify, and it's been really fun, but people should watch it. It's all I got.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Carri Twigg from CultureHouse for coming on to the podcast and share a bit of her journey and insights with us. And for Keri Twigg, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just gotta look for it.
