Derrick Whitfield Sr.: The Go-To Graphic Designer Discusses Afrofuturism and the Challenges of Being a Black Designer

Rob Lee: And welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for tuning in. Please continue to share, subscribe, leave reviews, five stars, you know, always good. Definitely helps us get discovered and help these great stories get discovered. This is a community project, so you guys have a role in this as well. Share, leave reviews. It helps us pop up in the algorithm and more people are familiar with these stories. And with that, I have a new one for you. Today's guest, I'm super excited to speak with, is a creative force and known as the go-to graphic designer for unconventional brands. He's a Navy veteran based in Atlanta, Georgia, and he has a passion for design, which is fueled by comics, pop culture, and Afrofuturism. which has led to him having his own business, his own design firm, Whitfield Designs. He's worked with notable clients such as the House of Blues, BET, and the Sundance Film Festival, and many, many more. Please welcome the very great and the powerful Derrick Whitfield Sr. Welcome to the podcast.
Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.

Rob Lee: Thank you for pulling up. You know, it's funny when folks are like, all right, man, keep going, bro. Keep going. Come on.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: You're good. You're good. We humble over here. But I got I got credentials just a little bit.

Rob Lee: Just a skosh, just a skosh. So and I said that. Right. But I want to turn it on to you right now. So so thanking you for coming on. But also, I want to give you sort of that space. I think, you know, how we present ourselves, how we introduce ourselves to potentially new audiences, because this podcast is international. Beyond the artist statement and your professional accomplishments, I'm interested in how you perceive and introduce yourself. Like, who are you? What are the words that matter to you in describing yourself, in your own words? And how does this influence how you do what you do?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Sure. So I mean, these days, professionally, I introduce myself, like you said, the go-to graphic designer for unconventional brands. But me personally, I consider myself quite a bit of things. But just I'm a lover, I'm a fighter, I'm a leader, a servant, a husband, a father, and a friend. And so I think all of those areas from my life experience, I'm big on life experience when it comes to creativity. And so all of those, you know, kind of tie in. And, you know, that kind of helps me push out my work.

Rob Lee: Oh, yeah. It's I think it's important to have those details in it, because I think a lot of times and what I try to do in these conversations and these like in facilitating the storytelling, you guys are sharing your story as the guest. I'm just trying to craft it in a way. It's I think it's important for for people really to have that context. They might see your work and they have no idea. They might get references. They might understand, OK, this guy's into this, but they don't know who you know, what ideas might go into it. So like, You know, this is, this is an audio medium, right? So a lot of times folks may say, yes. Oh yeah. What are you into Rob? How do you curate? I was like, yeah, I talk to black people and people. Right. Right.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: And I say it like that.

Rob Lee: And, you know, And in some of the things that come out of it, like when I you can almost tell by some of the conversations, you know, hey, I'm talking to someone who does graphics. Hey, I'm talking to someone who's in the film, someone that's a comedian. Those are things I'm interested in. So, you know, those are details in the conversations kind of flow as a result of it. It's just free jazz. And, you know, at a certain point versus our question, number two, it's just like, here's here's the smoke. Here's the real questions. Here's the dope. Sure, sure.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Yeah, and I think it's dope, man, that these things exist because I know as an artist and as a creative, you know, my journey kind of, you know, it goes like this. It doesn't go in a straight line, but you know, these things are great, you know, having podcasts and all that stuff because you already know. unless you're just an elite Black person, if you're just not quite there yet, they're usually not featuring you in no media, they ain't inviting you out to no events, you know what I mean? And so, you know, we have to take it upon ourselves. And that's just something, I think that's Black people's legacy, is that we've always had to take it upon ourselves to promote, push, and, you know, make ourselves relevant, you know, so we're just part of that, you know.

Rob Lee: and being independent too in it. Like, you know, I, I, I see, I see folks that'll come on and I see that canvas rebel, that voyage, whatever city you're in sort of thing. And I'm like, people hit me up from like voyage. Hey, we saw you did interviews in Philadelphia. You want to be in village, uh, voyage Philly. I was like, I'm Baltimore based, bro. Oh, Hey, you want to do it again? It's like, nah, it sure hasn't changed. The journey hasn't changed.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: You know, and those things help too, you know what, but at the end of the day, I could tell, you know, I was just talking to my, I talked to my wife a lot about business stuff. And so she knows I'm on a podcast right now, but I was telling her, I was like, I felt like your questions or your initial, you know, the stuff that you sent me was well thought out. And it made me sit down and think versus, you know, other folks who, you know, oh, it's Black History Month. I need to play the numbers game. You feel me? Oh, we're going to get into it. We're going to get into it on this.

Rob Lee: Tell me about your work. But so I want to so I want to go in and you were talking about sort of the not being a straight line. And definitely I relate to that. And I saw that. So I definitely want to dive a bit deeper in it. So if you could take us back to where the journey begins creatively, not necessarily that first professional gig or first project that you worked on, but When you recognized you had an interest in art or in creativity, whether it be in making it, whether it be in appreciating it, but what was that initial spark?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Right. So, you know, like most of us, older millennials. I was born in the 80s, definitely grew up in the 90s, was definitely a latchkey kid. So, you know, my idea of a good time was, you know, I came home after school, fix me a grilled cheese sandwich like everybody else. And, you know, I watched after school cartoons or Saturday morning cartoons, you know, so Looney Tunes and the Animaniacs, Batman, I watched all that stuff. But, you know, I started to find out that I could draw these things and I could, you know, draw them pretty well, you know, I was pretty good at it. And so I think That was kind of the initial spark, and then I could draw what I was seeing. I used to have a weird thing where I'd draw my mom's plants. My mom's a plant lady, and I'd just draw her plants. I think my family, they started to recognize, too, like, hey, he has a talent. The sort of like I knew something was there. I think the actual spark came from I was able to go into a magnet school for for art, math and science when I was in like fourth grade. And so a lot of those kids were, you know, very talented. But I guess, hey, if I went there, I was kind of talented, too. So, yeah.

Rob Lee: was there and I'm going to comment on that piece a bit before I go into this next part. I had a I had a similar thing growing up where I used to I was an entrepreneur, though, you know, with it. I was just like, I. So, you know, pictures of Wolverine, I'm going to draw for you. Right. They fit. Yeah, I was it is selling drawings of X-Men characters from the 90s cartoon in class. Yeah, for sure. And I did that. Did you ever like where you because you're from originally from the West Coast. Did you guys have that that that like test thing, like draw this dog and send it back and we'll tell you you're good or not?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: No, I don't think we had that. But how I ended up in the magnet school was is that I was kind of, I was a little mischievous when I was younger, you know, but I used to kind of like, I think I was just bored in class. And so I would finish a lot of my work. And, you know, I'd be there cutting up talking, acting, you know, fool or whatever. So, of course, you know, as a young black kid, schools or just people who are kind of over you, they ain't gonna never admit you a genius, they gonna throw stuff on you like, oh, he talks too much or oh, he's a problem child and all that other stuff. So, you know, my mom though, she had enough sense to kind of go against that and she kind of got to the bottom of what was going on. And she's like, oh, my kid isn't a problem child, he's just bored, you know, and she, what the school did is they tested me and lo and behold, I was able to, I had an opportunity to skip two grades, but my mom thought it would kind of mess me up socially. And so she ended up sending me to the magnet school. And so I was like, you know what I mean? Like, so I had a test, but we didn't have them where we draw the dog and all that stuff. But the school gave me a test and they found out, Oh, he's actually smarter than, you know, he's a, he's a head, you know? And so like, that's why he's acting up in class. And I think it's easy to write off young, like, Oh, he's a problem child or it's that in a third. And so, you know, but my mom, she wasn't having this.

Rob Lee: Again, it's the same. It's the same story. You know, like the the test is one of those weird sort of you apply for it and that that sort of vibe. But for me and, you know, having drawn being the the area that I was in, like I did my own comics and all of that stuff when I was, you know, young and like every year I always get like colored pencils and drawing books. That was the guesswork for me. And in class, I would like, you know, smart enough to know that I could coast and take that B plus. And then I would spend the half of the class drawing. I didn't really talk. I didn't really jam with him, but I was like, I'm going to draw. And I remember one time teacher walks by. She took my drawing. I worked on it a while. I had like everything. I was like, hey man, you know, I'm going to need that back. And I think at a point, you know, they hit my mom up and she was like, absolutely not. She's like, look at his test scores. She's like, he's he's actually just creative and, you know, very similar vibe. And I think by the time I got to like middle school or what have you, because we didn't really have at least, you know, during the time I was growing up or the environment I was in sort of that that magnet set up until about high school, you know, be different things, different programs they would have, they were piloting that were sort of gifted students. But I remember I had a teacher who, she saw that I did like a whole comic. I did the coloring, the lettering, the whole thing. And she was, and I looked at her, I was like, look, you can take my comic, we're gonna have some issues. And I was always a big kid too. Like, and I think when I was like 14, I was already like 6'1", 240. So I was just a giant kid. And she was like, oh no, no, no, no. I need to protect that. She was like, you're talented. So, yeah, she told all the teachers is like, no, no, no. Give him a pass. You know, he's good. And, you know, he's smart and all of this stuff. So was there like a moment early on in growing up where someone was just like, all right, this this drawing thing, I'm not quite sure what it is, but I should help cultivate. I should help push it like that thing that, you know, a lot of times we're not afforded. It's just you're a problem. You're acting up, you're cutting up whatever. But a moment where it's just like, OK, you led me on the right path. You helped me get in that right spot. Was there an instance that for that for you?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Yeah, my whole, I feel like my whole family, they huddled around me, you know, so once my family knew I had the talent, like I know my, my aunt Barbara, my mom's older sister, they all lived in, we all lived in San Diego at the time. But I know that my aunt, she used to go to the swap meet with my aunt through marriage, my aunt Julia, and they used to, you know, do all kinds of flyers and stuff. And my aunt would be like, Oh, draw this flyer for me and stuff like that. Or, you know, just do this, do that. You know, my aunt Julia, she used to, babysit me when my mom was at work. And so I know she used to make me practice, like, religiously. And she used to, you know, definitely was the old school, like, you know, she was like, you know, you got to be twice as good, you know, to get half as what other people get. You got to, you know, made me very disciplined, a whole lot of yard work, you know, a whole lot of stuff I didn't want to do. But then the reward was, you know, I got to draw whatever I want, you know, have that time. And so yeah, I think my family was really instrumental of, you know, just really supporting my art, but then also giving me the work ethic and the, you know, the character to go along with it, you know? So yeah.

Rob Lee: It's great to have that. And, you know, I still to this day, probably 30 between 30 and 35 years old. I still have some of those early art books that I got, you know, from the family because it's it's something that it's an archive. It's sort of the trajectory. And, you know, there was a a fork in a road for me. You know, obviously, I'm not illustrating. This is my medium. Right. Was there a fork in the road? Because you have the you know, you're a veteran. You have the Navy background as well. So talk a bit about sort of maybe, you know, art was there. Art was of interest. And then art wasn't there for a little bit. And then you kind of went back to art.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Yeah. Yeah. So I. I basically kind of drew all through high school. So I, you know, drew it was kind of kept it to myself. Like I didn't really sell it or anything. I just did it for fun. But then in high school, you know, you discover other things. And so, of course, I got into a little bit a little bit of trouble out there on the West Coast, just messing around, you know, wasn't like a completely bad kid, but I was definitely into some things I had no business being into. And so when I graduated, I think, yeah, maybe about when I was like 20 or 21, I went into the military just to you know, kind of get out of my mom's house, get out of my mom's hair, pissing her off all the time. So I went into the Navy. And I think at that point, like when I was in the Navy, I didn't draw anything at all. I just kind of hung it up, you know, because I just really didn't know how to make art lucrative. I didn't know how to translate that. I just had the talent. The only thing I knew how to do was draw with pencil. I didn't know what graphic design or any of that was. It wasn't until I got out of the military, my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, she seen me draw because I was having a tough time getting out. She was like, what do you do to help yourself? out during these moments, you know, and I was like, oh, well, I used to draw when I was younger, you know, and she, like, tried that. So I was drawing something, I can't remember what, like a video game cover or something. And I was actually going to go to school for human resources. That was my job in the Navy, kind of like the equivalent of that. And she was like, nah, you need to go to college for art. And she was like, I was like, I don't know what to even be as an artist. And so she looked up graphic design and I was like, well, I think I could do that because I like computers and all that other stuff. And so that's what I went into. And so I could have easily been human resources there at Whitfield, you know, throwing on a monkey suit and tie and all this other stuff. So I mean, no disrespect to, you know, anybody out there who might do that. But I think ultimately I made the right decision, you know, instead of just playing it safe.

Rob Lee: Yeah, you know, I had that moment when I had on the monkey suit or have you and I had that that period where. You, you choose a thing. I'll say this, like, you know, my first job out of college, I was a, I was a marketing analyst for a big company, big fortune 500, like Verizon. And, you know, I was doing all of that and being groomed to grow, you know, through this whole process. And, you know, it just, I guess I found at 24, you shouldn't feel burnt out at 24. Yeah, definitely not. Yeah. And I was burnt out, you know, the rat race. And I wanted to do something creative because, you know, marketing, you think, you know, has the overlap branding and some of the sexy stuff. Everything that was, quote unquote, sexy from doing like sales videos and, you know, doing a little fun little quirky things and getting that personality in there. That was gravy on top of the real job, which was purely analytics, just numbers, unsexy. Wow. But I had the resources. And this is where when I was talking before we got started about being a day walker, always having that relationship from like the day job that's going to serve as my main funder to do all the stuff I want to do. So I would record at my office late at night and one of my buddies who I ended up meeting, he was a janitor. And this one job, you know, is a rotational program at Verizon. So I've already placed out of my permanent role. And he's a janitor. And I used to be a janitor in the building that I worked in. So coming back is now like senior management. And I was a janitor and everyone was kind of a jerk to me when I was a janitor. And I had a lot of energy when I came back. So, you know, and this is just part of my my personality, I suppose. You know, I talked to him. He's like, you know, coming by me and him didn't really know each other. He's pulling my trash and all that stuff. And, you know, people are jerks. Like, oh, I'm down on this person's job. I was like, Hey man, how you doing, man? And we just chopping it up. And I was like, yeah, I'll watch that. And we're just kind of like chopping it up. I was like, you know, I used to do that job, not in its old man sort of vibe, but in a, this is not who you are. This is just a thing that you're doing. And. You know, eventually he and I started just recording. I said, you want to do this weird thing with me? I do a podcast here. I'm recording interviews and so on. And I've mentioned on this podcast before, the Best Buy back in the day is closed now. That was across the street from my job. That's where I got all my original podcasting gear from. Nice, nice. Very much that. And all of that comes directly from the sort of funding opportunity and all of it self-taught. And I think the key point I'm trying to get at is, I knew that I was going to be not going to have the traditional setup. I think once I came to that realization and I got it early. Yeah, I had to relearn it a couple of times. But yeah, when you get when you get it and you understand it and you're a creative black guy, you know, I think in those job environments, right? I joke about this with my partner. And she'll say, like, there's only like three black guys you can be in an office. And it's like either the player, you're either the nerd. And she's just going down this list of the type of black cohorts you could be.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Yeah, yeah, because you definitely can't. You definitely have to code switch. You can't let your hair down, proverbial hair down, and be yourself because you get fired day number two, man.

Rob Lee: And it's like, and I've gotten it. Oh man, Rob, it's just so, that's like, no, I just know what I'm talking about. You're so intimidating. I just, I'm just 6'4 and I know what I'm talking about.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Sure. I'm a, I'm a big dude too. 6'3, you know, all that other. So it was like, yeah, you already have that, that stigma on you, you know? And so you have to really, in those work environments, you know, in the Navy too, same thing. I remember my first, um, It was a week in boot camp. One of the chiefs, he was non-black, of course, and he asked me, he said, uh, he said, see him recruit Whitfield. He said, what'd you do before you came into the Navy? I was like, I played a little football, did a little boxing, all that stuff. And he's like, you got that temper under control, because I'm a big guy. And it's like, you know, I look like I just whooped dudes for breakfast. And I was like, yeah, I'm a very, very disciplined guy. He's like, OK, good. You know, so yeah, just making sure it was safe. You know, this is in boot camp. So it's kind of, you know, funny. But yeah, I mean. It is what it is.

Rob Lee: It's I hear it's because in this podcast, right? I'm always smiling. People don't know what I look like until they I'll put it this way. I go out to the community, right? People don't recognize it until they hear me say something. I'm just Joe, large black guy until they say, oh, that's Rob. Yeah. Yeah. I did a movie. And the filmmaker was like, I want to send you a still, right, of, you know, just sort of behind the scenes stuff. And he was like, all right, you look kind of mean in this picture. You're smiling right after, but we only have the one where you look super mean. And I was like, I can't control myself, bro.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Right, right. Like, it's nothing personal. It's just how I'm moving. Like, you don't even know behind the stoicism, I'm like the happiest go lucky person on the planet. You know what I mean? So.

Rob Lee: That's my pay attention face. You know what I mean?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Exactly. I'm concentrating, probably working something out of my brain. You never know.

Rob Lee: So and I think we touched on it a little bit. The experience, you know, you know, you talked about the Navy a bit. And so the experience of being a black man of, you know, late 30s in this era, you know, what are within your work and sort of it may not be specifically in there because at times you're working with clients. Right. But Your philosophy in your work or some of the themes that show up in your work, what's baked into your work that is of you as the person, as a Black person, as a creator? I see Afrofuturism pop up a few different times, but what are some of the themes that show up in your work?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Right. So as a kid, like I didn't, you know, I didn't go to museums or anything like that, you know, definitely grew up on pop culture, you know, mainly black pop culture. So, you know, maybe like I know, like one of the shows that I watch, I love comedy. So in Live in Color, you know, you see that, you know, most people are looking at the comedy, but I'm also looking at the intro with the typography and the paint being thrown around. All that stuff is in my brain, you know, so that kind of stuff. I know one of my biggest influences is music. And so I know when I was younger, I begged my older cousins for the Doggy Style and Chronic CD when I was younger. I begged them for it. I was too young to buy it, and they bought it. And I was listening to it, and my mom found it. Oh, boy, she whipped my tail, boy, and took them things. I think she felt kind of bad, though, because I was so young. I didn't know any better. You know, but what she did do was, is she played like, you know, Parliament, Bootsy Collins, all that stuff, you know, the precursor to G-Funk era rap music. And so, you know, I definitely, my art style is called Afro Delic. So I imagine like my art style is kind of like, you know, the G-Funk version, but just in visual art form, you know? So I took all of just basically my experiences with pop culture, my family, and just my life experience. And I just mix it all up and just, you know, that's why I push out. all off of influence, you know? But yeah.

Rob Lee: I love it. I love the way you describe that, by the way. It's really, it's really cool because it resonates. I made a reference to the Doggystyle album earlier today when I was talking to someone, so.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: I mean, and all of that stuff, you know, like, like, you know, not just the music, but if you look at Doggy Style's album, that's artwork, you know? And then when, you know, when I figured out what graphic design was, you're like, that's what these, this is what these guys were doing to make that stuff, essentially. So if you look at Doggy Style's album cover, that's, you know, artwork. Or if you look at the Old Parliament albums, that, their artwork is strange as all get out, but it's still artwork. And so I think for me, that was like, kind of like, you have that aha moment like later on, which basically ties in all this 20 some odd years of stuff you've been consuming and you're just like, you know, you'd like, oh, I can use this. I can use that, you know? And so, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Rob Lee: So this is a thing that I didn't send you, but I think it's a good question to ask. Um, because I'm always looking to refresh. Like, I know that, as you can see in the background, that's been my sort of logo and my brand identity, if you will, for quite a part of the duration of this podcast. But I find like as someone who's in a visual medium, like graphic designers, I think photographers, y'all take L's in terms of sort of the social media component of Yeah, we don't care about photography as much. We don't care about the graphics as much. You can be replaced with Canva. Sure. A bit about that, like sort of what? What makes like graphic design something that's really enriching and fulfilling when some people are like, I'm just going to camp. I can make my own thing. And it's like it doesn't hit for some reason. I want to get your thoughts as as a designer, as a person that, you know, you have a signature style that hits and you might have someone that's like trying to replicate that or even with AI being a part of the reality now.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Sure. And so I do get those questions a lot. And I know, you know, somebody was asking me, you know, what do I feel about AI? And it's like, I, um, I mean, honestly, it just depends on what type of customer you have. Fortunately, I have some amazing clients, you know, who understand, I think, because a lot of my clients are black, you know, most of them are, I work for every walk of life there is out there. But, you know, 80, 90 percent of my clients are Black and, you know, the whole ownership and generational wealth, all of that ties in. And so, you know, when you're thinking of something in terms of when I design for a person, you know, this is a, you know, Black-owned, grassroots business who understands that AI logos or artwork, you can't copyright that stuff. You'll never own it because it's not, you know, and that's the drawback to that kind of stuff. And they, you know, luckily my Clients are very savvy business owners and they understand those kind of things where it's just like you know. I can understand they can go to Canva, but in a lot of those cases, when they want something really original, ethnic, bold, bright, colorful, then you got to come to me. You know what I mean? So yeah, yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's not all smooth sailing. I do have, of course, I have the same issues everybody have. I have people who try to lowball me. I've had people who, you know, don't care about the process, who I've had those people, hey, I can go to Canva and go do this. And for me, it's like, you know, go ahead, because I've seen people, they go to Canva or go, you know, to these things. And then, you know, what they don't tell you about Canva is if you can go get a logo for Canva for nothing, essentially, but then that anybody else can recreate that logo. And then it's like, you have no authenticity at all. And that's also important these days, especially now when, you know, most people have a side hustle, most people have a business, and there's a lot of talented people out there. There's a lot in the competition in every, I don't care whether you're a podcast, restaurant owner, barber, the competition is high everywhere. And so it's like, you better be standing out in every way possible that you can, because you can go get the generic stuff, but your competition is out here getting real branding and real designs and real logos and, you know, I say to people all the time, even though it sounds a little superficial and it sucks, how you look while you're doing what you're doing is just as important as the process itself. So I see your logo behind you. I see that as dope. What that look like compared to somebody who just has a microphone with a circle? I'd be more interested in what… you're doing just off of how you look alone, you know what I mean? So yeah.

Rob Lee: And that was one of the, you know, early on when you have that, and I would talk with different folks about it, trying to build out that identity. And it's like, I'm very comfortable with expressing what I'm into and what I like. And I think in doing these interviews and having these conversations, you always glean something from folks, you know, just in the conversation. So it informs when I talk to someone, like, so what is your process? How do you go about this? What are the edits like? How do I go about it? Just asking those sort of informed questions and being a collaborator, if that's the situation that we're engaging in. It's like, yeah, the exchange is I get this for this money or whatever, but I want to have some of the me in it. And one of the things that presented itself was, I had some people who don't look like you and I saying, oh, I don't know about this branding. I don't know if it really hits. Maybe it shouldn't have you on it or this interpretation. And I gave them sort of the story where I interviewed a guy in this shows the sort of community component. I interviewed a guy who turns out to be my neighbor who did this logo. And he just happened to be up the street.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: It's funny, too, because it's like, you know, my logo, if you see my logo, my logo is, you know, me and my son. It's just a mascot logo. But, you know, people ask me, why did you have a logo of yourself and a mascot? Well, it's like that's where the beginning comes from. It comes from the Looney Tunes with the circular background and the old school cartoons. That's where, you know, my artistic expression comes from. And so and then, you know, for me, I definitely am a generational person and it's like you know even my son now he's starting to draw and then build as well like this guy could build out Lego pieces in like an hour just like crazy stuff you know and so definitely being able to pass on something to him that's very important you know so.

Rob Lee: So, so talk a little bit about, um, you know, what that process looks in. And thank you for sharing that by the way, because I noticed the senior is prominent doing that NFL thing. I was like, you want to know who's bros? Like, yeah, I got to see you in New Jersey now. I'm very proud father, man. So talk a bit about, you know, the process and, you know, sort of in those, you know, you know how when we have like a progress report, like I was joking, you know, I was telling you about before we got started, I was waiting on that Instacart order. You're seeing the progress. So what are those those progress is like you're going to work with a client. Like, how do you identify sort of or how does that process start with those unconventional brands? And then sort of what's somewhere in the midpoints, whether it be All right, we have this concept here. And then what's sort of that point where, okay, we're about done. So talk about your process.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Sure. So I think for me, I tell people all the time, especially I talk to a lot of younger designers, younger black designers, and they, how do you do what you do? And I'm like, well, let's take a step back. The biggest part of the process is, you know, listening. Most people think creating for other people is about all putting up dope work or putting up dope artwork or whatever, and that's a small part of it, but the biggest part of it is listening. And I think, you know, I was fortunate enough to grow up in Southern California. I've dealt with a lot of, you know, diverse cultures, people from different walks of life, and you get to hear their stories. Share their dreams and their visions and that's essentially what design is is being able to listen attentively to people's dreams and vision and then you just go take that and you'd be able to communicate that artistically and I think that's the most important creative part or most important part of my creative process. sketching and concepting and all that stuff. That stuff is cool too, you know, but I think for me, if I'm able to have a dialogue like how we're having, 90% of the time, I won't even miss, you know? And so, yeah, I think that's the biggest part is having that dialogue. And then also, I think what's really cool these days is that, you know, nothing's a mystery with social media and stuff. So a person can come talk to me and then I can go to their social media, their website, see what their business looks like, see what their, you know, base looks like and I don't even have to really, I still ask them those questions anyway just to get their perspective, but you don't even really have to do that. You could just go find that out, you know, by just the digital real estate people have, you know, so yeah, yeah.

Rob Lee: Now, that's true. Like, you know, even when I'm doing this, I you know, it's some instances where I don't do the ghost things. I think that's really gauche. I think, you know, oh, yeah, bro, I've canceled this interview we had. You know what I mean? Some people do that. But in the process of preparing, I like to put in some time. I don't like to waste people's time. And I like to not waste my own time, obviously. So I am doing that research. I wanna see if this is a match. And I think some people get the wrong sense of, oh yeah, I'm giving you something, bro. It's like, it's a little more even than you might think it is. And that's sort of the thing. Everything feels transactional. It's just like, I don't, and this is gonna sound like real up my own ass, but I'm not struggling to get guests. I really wanna talk to the people that I'm talking to because for me, it's building sort of a version. It's not quite friendship because you don't know. But I have made some friends in doing this podcast, but it's building that connectivity that it's like, hey, I got a project and these want to work on. Who do I know? How can I put money in your pocket? I can put money in their pocket instead of going to someone else. But it starts with me doing that research and asking those sort of questions. And, you know, you get on and you see like something really weird on social media. So I can interview you. I don't think I.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Yeah, yeah, and you know, and it's the same thing for me I find people all the time who just I know this this holiday season, you know, there was a guy who You know, I don't know him from a can of paint. He just reached out to me Oh, this is this is what I want and I want to have ownership and I'm just like pump your brakes Like I'm not pressed to work with you. Like what? I'm not, you know, and not to say that, like I said, I'm not all high and mighty and all, but I'm very comfortable. And my thing is, is that, you know, I'm not pressed at all. Like you not working with me, I'm fine because there's four to five other people right behind you, bro. Like I'm good, you know? So it's like, but I appreciate, you know, you're, you're taking your time to reach out and all that stuff. But yeah, I think that, um, It's just weird being a creator and how people think that, like, they're doing you a favor by patronizing you. Not at all. Not with a lot of us, because, you know, some of us are very savvy and know how to go out there and get it with or without you, you know. So, yeah. 100%.

Rob Lee: Yeah. Talk about the, you know, sort of clients like the sort of bigger name clients and what that process looks like. And you sort of have your, you know, vision and how you work and what matters to you. Right. As a as a creator. And sometimes it's a delicate balance of marrying because I've had some opportunities. Folks have reached out. Hey, bro, you want to do this? And I'm like, I don't know if that fits with what I'm doing. I think this is You're getting some black points by coming on here and being on my platform. And I don't know if this is a match. And just like the check looks great, you know, but I don't know if this is a match. But then there are other instances where it's a very collaborative thing and we grow and we figure out how. each one of us works and seeing that that's a long-term sort of collaborative experience and partnership. So talk about that and if you have any, you know, stories, you don't have to name like the client or what have you, but any stories that come to mind that shows that in action.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Sure, so a lot of the what is it, high profile projects that I've been a part of, a lot of those are through collaboration. So for instance, with the Nike NYC thing, it wasn't with them directly, but it was with a black veterans project and they were doing a five year anniversary and they needed like, like flyers and a pattern and you know, that kind of stuff for the event. And so usually that process is pretty easy because like I said, you know, my clients, 90% of them are black men and women in business. And so my style, my expertise, those things are very much accepted. It's those exceptions to the rule. Like when I get outside of the community, that's where the kind of issues and the struggle comes about. Because sometimes, you know, they don't understand where I'm coming from in terms of creativity because it's not your, I call it Amber Crombie and Fitch studio company, you know, whatever. It's not that. Mine is, I tell people all the time, if you want safe, hey, more power to you. I'm not a safe designer. I'm a, a very highly experimental one. I do things a whole lot differently than what you are probably used to. So you can live with that. I can live with that. If not, I understand. So yeah.

Rob Lee: Yeah. Conventional, you know, when I'm doing this and I don't do too many of the collaborative things, but I do some. And I asked, I was like, so you know what I do, right? You listen. And it's not a matter of I'm out here popping off, saying all types of F words or what have you. Don't know. Yeah. So tell me about you can work like. Right, right. But there is sort of this thing that people want. Like, I can get the interviews that they can't get. with the people they can't get them with. So there's something associated. It's like, how do you get that? Because I'm a journalist. Because I'm good at what I do, because I approach things in this way. And they want that piece of it, but they want me to be in the monkey suit. And I can't do that. That's for another guy. That's what the other guy does. And I don't really do that. So as I do say this regularly, when I have these conversations sort of off mic, I was like, in words now, Yeah.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: And so that's why I can't appreciate about my, uh, you know, my client base or whatever, because usually when, you know, for instance, like the guy, a black veterans project, his name is Richard. And, you know, he does have a job professionally. I can't remember what he does, but it's in DC and it's a very hoity toity. But when he gets at me for a project, what up fam? That's how he, you know, that's how he gets on the phone. It's comfortable. It's like, we don't have to do this code-switching thing. We're not in the office no more. What up, fam? What you need? Oh, this is the budget right here. Let me go holla at these people. You know, and it's very fluid. And so for me, I think that's the part that I love. And, you know, and I think, I can't remember who said it, Dane Dash or somebody, or I think Jay-Z or somebody was like, you know, I'm 100% me wherever I go. And I think that's what I can appreciate about those influences, like, you know, the Snoop Dogs and the Parliament and the Boots. Those guys were who they were a hundred percent no matter where they were and I think you know me doing business as a independent creative that's how I have to be is that I'm going to be me and I won't if I have to tone down myself to work with you or for you or whatever then I just rather not I'm in that position where I can decide that you know so that's a great position to have.

Rob Lee: 100 percent. And this is and this is sort of the because we're poking at it a little bit. So this is sort of the last real question I want to ask you, because I've been adding rapid fire questions as we've been talking. So get ready. But so you're also like, you know, entrepreneur, you like I said, you know, you have your your own like firm, your own design firm, and you're almost 10 years deep.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: I was like, OK, yeah, not too bad.

Rob Lee: Talk about sort of that experience and, you know, having something that's like, this is now the business you have to consider. And I think all artists and all designers, you know, that you're entrepreneurs and even you're doing a freelance stuff, but, you know, having that sort of. being there that that that's that signifier that it's like, also, I'm a black owned business as well. Talk a bit about that and sort of what are those challenges and what are the rewards really of being in your business, having that sort of the legacy component? And how are you balancing those sort of artistic like values and that vision? So like. You know, you like when I'm doing this, sometimes I'm like, all right, how many interviews do I want to do? I want to do all the interviews that I can. But sometimes physically, it doesn't make sense. So it's like, all right, let's weed through which ones make sense, which ones make sense, maybe later. So talk about some of that.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: So I think that the challenges that I have as a black designer, even almost 10 years in, you know, I have the reviews, I got the portfolio, the body of work, I got all of that stuff, and it's still being legitimized, man. I'm in a, I consider myself in, you know, when it comes to artwork or creativity, it's like you're a Black dude in hockey. You know what I mean? I think still to this day, graphic design is 3% Black. This is the workforce, 3% Black think one to two percent other and the rest is white and you know and for you know so I a lot of the media events I don't get invited to a lot of you know those prestigious things I could put you over the top you don't get invited to and I think honestly I mean it's done on purpose I I don't believe that um People believe that only white people are creative and nobody else is that's insane, you know So but you know, it reflects that in the media, you know, I can for me I follow everybody I follow black designers follow white designers and everybody in between and you know you see the events that they're doing in these big events, you know, and you see the the prestige that comes along with it. And for me, for a while there, when I was younger in design, I thought, you know, for the longest that, oh, these guys are up here because they're just oh so good. And I'm down here because I'm not where they are. But. I had an opportunity to do, I can't speak what the project was, because I'm under an NDA for it. But I got an opportunity to work with two very prominent white designers on Instagram. And we were paid a pretty decent amount of money. And it was crazy, because one of them showed up or didn't have his like, we did weekly updates with the work. And for two weeks, this guy didn't have his work. And then it kind of like tore the veil down. It's like, oh, like, There is no levels like I'm on par with these guys and do the same thing that they do. It's just that they're invited to these events and these prestigious and that's where the celebrity comes in where you know if you asked. a black person. Oh, you heard of Derrick Whitfield or Whitfield? I'd be like, who is that? You know, because you got to come find me, you know, and it's, it kind of sucks, you know, and it, and, uh, but I mean, it is what it is. I think the reward for it though. I love the freedom of it. I love that. I just ate dinner with my family and then I can go off and go have a podcast interview. I could play video games for an hour and then I could work till 12 one o'clock if I wanted to or I can get up, you know, go to sleep early and wake up early and you know it's just the freedom of it the freedom of it is it's worth the blood sweat and tears man because you know I've been. while I don't have like the super monetary award for it, there's other things that I have. And I've, you know, got to watch my son grow up. I got to be there on the first days of school and picking him up from the bus and, you know, him seeing me in my element and he's all inspired and asking questions now. And I think a lot of those things are just as much rewarding, you know, as, you know, everything else. And so, yeah, yeah.

Rob Lee: That's beautiful. And Yeah, I agree with, you know, from my vantage point, it's the same thing. You know, I think I wanted one sort of scenario I throw out there is I think it may apply to every industry or every medium, right? Creative medium. It's like a pie, right? You know, like a pie has a certain number of slices, and I feel like half of them are already earmarked to people that might like us, you know, maybe more than half. And then we'll throw one or two slices, maybe half a slice to this community, that community. And if we can double dip queer black artists for sake of argument, then we got two of them knocked out. And sometimes the sort of the some of the firms that might reach out to me, hey, can you do this interview for us? Sure. And when I'm like, hey, so is there like, you know, you guys have me doing this interview. Is there like a press pass or something? Because I'm I'm press and oh, no, we don't really have any. So the continuation of that invite or that lack of invite, that lack of consideration isn't there. And I find something that I've been hearing more and more recently. And again, it's not sour grapes or anything. This is more of I relate to what you're describing. It is this sort of energy where you leave that community. You leave that physical place, the people are great generally, but the people that are the gatekeepers are not. So you leave and suddenly if I go up to New York, if I go to Atlanta, if I go to L.A., oh my God, Rob's back. He's great. It's like a hero's welcome. And it's like, well, I'm here and I'm doing it here. Like when I tell someone like, you know, I've done 700 interviews and probably 500 plus are Baltimore related artists.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Yeah, and that's the crazy thing, too, is that you have all of this experience. And I know for me, I still get questions. Oh, do you think you're worth this much money? And do you think, you know, oh, my goodness. And you know what's crazy? I was never even let in. At least you got reached out to with the pie. They told me I was coming at them from the jump. They was like, oh, not this guy. Shoot, I know my, man, I was in college, and I know The professor at my, it was Art Institute in San Diego before I graduated college for graphic design, and he was going around the class asking, you know, what, they were saying like, why do you design or what do you want to do with your design work after college? And I know for me, I was like, well, you know, I was like, I've studied the graphic design job market since I got out of the military. I want to fix the diversity issue in graphic design. And my college professor, he was like, Oh, he was like, I wouldn't say that if I wanted a good job or something like that. And the class just was like, my class froze. Oh, no, there was a there was a cool like white chick. She was a designer. She's like, you know, that Derrick has his own business and is in stores with like T-shirts and stuff. I, you know, I knew when I went into college the day I walked in there, I walked in. I knew better. I just knew not to go try to even get with the studio. I was like, I just better have a business and something in place, you know, because the likelihood of me getting hired is unlikely. And I've applied to every graphic design job there is. I've never made it past the video interview. Like, it was just like, no.

Rob Lee: I was wanting that, you know, that meme when it was like, what did he say?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: It's so true, though. Yeah, man. Oh, my goodness. It's crazy, though. Like I said, it's just the thinking that's just like, dude, how do you think like that? Because for me, I don't underestimate anyone like I would and you know it's crazy like you never know what's in a person's heart and I know for me I really I think I was just telling my wife there's I was like 50 percent of the reason why I'm so tenacious and why I just I will go for broke is to like prove that guy wrong like you will not speak that over me and you know that will allow me to you know, hinder my creativity or think small or whatever. And absolutely not. And, you know, I've been able to do some great things from that as inspiration, you know? So, yeah.

Rob Lee: Before I go into, and thank you, that's a good point. Before I go into this last group, I'll say this last comment before I go to the rapid fire questions. Ambition, spite, and pettiness are great motivators.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: That's all I was going to say. Brother, you're speaking my language, bro. Hey, you know what? Me and you, we're going to talk some more because pettiness is gasoline, man. It is gasoline. Just to show this person like you, are dead ass wrong, I'm going to shove this in your face. You are dead ass wrong. I'm not having it, you know. So, yeah, I feel you.

Rob Lee: So I got I got I got four or five of them. I got five of them, actually. And the way that rapid fire works, you know, you know, it goes, it's like, look, I said what I said. Don't overthink it. Whatever the one word or, you know, minimal word answer is, that's the answer. So here's the first one. Which comic book character's story resonates with you the most? Like a comic that you've read, is there, you know, a character that you're like, you know what, I get this dude's story, I like his story.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: I'd probably say… Batman's story. Not necessarily. I mean, my parents are still alive. My parents aren't dead. I just think that pain is a great motivator. Pain will see you through some shit, man. You know, it'll see you through a lot of stuff, you know, and so just that pain and determination. Yeah.

Rob Lee: 100 percent. You mentioned comedy earlier. Which canceled black TV sitcom would you want to bring back? Oh, man. It's a good question, I know.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Could it be a sitcom or a comedy show?

Rob Lee: Uh, you know, sitcom or comedy show, whichever one you want, because the color is good.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: So pale show. I bring that back.

Rob Lee: OK. Yeah. Um, do you have because I know, Donna, you're based in Atlanta, you have the San Diego connection, and those are both known for different types of conventions in the pop culture and fandom space. Do you have a favorite convention? Is there a conventional pop culture that you attend?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: No, you know what's crazy is that I've never been to Comic-Con. I've never been to, I've never been to Dragon-Con here in Atlanta. I've never done those things. Even before graphic design, I never did them. I need to though. I know my wife, she's like, you need to do Dragon-Con this year. And so, yeah, I've just never done them. I think the only thing that I have done out here in Atlanta is the Black Boy Art Show, and that was pretty good. So, yeah.

Rob Lee: If you could design If actually, I mean, let me say this differently. And this might be a little petty, but I mean, we're on the same, you know, uncommon brand thing. If there was a design that's right in front of you, it could be NBA, it could be any sport, whatever is there. If there was a design that you could redesign in your style, who would it be? What would it be? It's like, you know, you know, I'm tired of Nike. I'm going to redo it. Like what's the brand identity you would want to redesign?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: I think I would want to do something for, uh, we would want to do Harlem Globetrotters because they're not, I consider, I don't consider myself a sports designer. I can do it, but Harlem Globetrotters, they have a bit of like magic in their stuff. And so I think to me, that would fit more of my criteria. And I think their, their branding is good, but I feel it's a little dated. And so I'd like, I'd like to revamp that and have some fun with that. Yeah.

Rob Lee: It's just like a little universal circus, and it's like this is black and this is old. Yeah, this is. Yeah. So this is the last one. And it's sort of three three items I'm looking for here. So what are three things that an artist or designer needs? And, you know, I want to avoid money because money is always the easiest thing. I need to get paid. But what are the things that you think a designer or an artist like like need? It could be intangible. It could be tangible things. But what are three things that they need?

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: I think the biggest thing you need is discipline. You could be the best artist in the world, but nobody will know it if you're lazy in your mom's basement. You need discipline. I think you need skill. There is some skill involved. Artists try to be humble and say that, oh, creativity is fun. It's competition, like everything else. I think you also need a good ear. especially if you plan on creating for people. I think you really need to develop an ear to listen to people just past conversation. Like when I talk to a client, I look at their mannerisms, where their eyes go, that, you know, that kind of stuff. So yeah.

Rob Lee: Active listening. It's important. So that's kind of it for the pod. So one, there's two things I want to do. One, I want to thank you for coming on and spending some time with me. This has been a treat. And two, I want to invite and encourage you, this is the shameless plug portion, to share with the listeners where they can check you out, social media, website, you know, the biz, all of that good stuff. Let the fine folks know. Tell them what you got.

Derrick Whitfield Sr.: Oh man, come find me at Whitfield Designs on Instagram, Whitfield Designs on LinkedIn, Whitfield Designs Co., my portfolio on Whitfield Design Store. I sell art prints, t-shirts, phone cases, anything you can want or need. So yeah, yeah, I'm out here.

Rob Lee: And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Derrick Whitfield Sr. for coming on to the podcast and sharing a bit of his journey with us and some of his insights. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.