Only couple

Rob Lee: months. Welcome to the Truth in its Art. Your source of conversations connecting art, culture, and community. These are stories that matter. And I am your host, Rob Lee. Except no substitute. Today I'm excited to welcome my next guest on to the program, a Dominican-born artist based out of Jersey City, New Jersey, through paintings, sculptures, and installations. My guest blends Caribbean imagery with references to Renaissance portraiture, Catholic iconography, and children's illustrations, transforming cultural memory into contemporary work. So joining me today and welcome to the podcast, Bony Ramirez. Welcome to the Truth in Us Art. Thank you.

Bony Ramirez: Thank you. Thank you for having me today. Thank you for taking your time for these questions. And I'm more excited to talk to you and you know, talking about the work and the practice. Yes.

Rob Lee: Looking forward to talking about that and so much more. Uh because I like to like to get to know the subject and that's a big piece of it. And you know, is I like to open up these conversations, you know, by letting the guests cook. Let them introduce themselves.

No, I'm not gonna ask you to go into the kitchen and literally cook. But let's have you introduce yourself. So tell us about yourself. Who are you, what do you do, and what's important for like the listeners to know about you.

Bony Ramirez: Uh so my name is Bonnie Ramirez. I was born in uh Dominican Republic. I came to the United States, I would say when I was like 13 years old. Uh I'm uh uh visual artist, I would say mainly uh mixed media painter and sculptor for the most part. Um and I would describe my work as like uh celebration and exploration of Dominican life and culture in the Caribbean as well. Um that's like the general idea, I would say, uh, of my practice uh through this from like symbolism and like materials and uh different ways to express that.

Rob Lee: I like that it's nice as a thing that's as if you've said this before. I like this.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, no, yeah, I think that's kind of like my goat. 'Cause in our world there's a lot of like the like the like the small talk introductions and this is like my small talk introduction that I kind of always say. Because the thing is, because the thing is like as you do all these different programs, it's like you always will be in like introduced to different groups of people ideally. Like

of course like you're quote unquote like fans or people that admire work will follow you throughout, but I think the point of a lot of times doing these things is also to get more people to know about the work, to like know about you and stuff. So I always like to keep that as a concise introduction to my world.

Rob Lee: I love it. I love it. It's um uh last year I I started going back to previous interviews, like having folks come back on, and I would check, I'm like, all right, did that intro change, bro? I think it's a little looser now, a little tighter. So when eventually in like a hundred episodes when I reach back out to you and like make sure it longer.

Bony Ramirez: Right, yes, I think it's a good thing. Okay, okay. So thank you for that introduction and going going back a little bit, um when did art as is a concept, whether it be you know, you you sketching, you drawing as as a as a young person or just being exposed to art, when did art first enter your life and in a way that it stuck with you? So I would say like I think growing up in the American Republic, I think we used to go to church like almost every day. So I think my first introduction is really common in the Caribbean to like, you know, we have a lot of like murals and stuff. So when it comes to like churches, for example, in particular, they don't have so much of like, you know, like the sculptures that you see like the United States and different countries. Uh

in the Caribbean is they're more like painted. So I would say like murals at church and just like a lot of like that really psychonography that I saw when I went to church was like the introduction to you know art or what I had considered art. Uh there's this big uh mural right in front of the it's in terms of instead of having like a normal facade, like I don't know, I'm not sure if it changed by now, but growing up the church that we used to attend has like this like I would say it's like a 30 feet mural right in front of the facade of the church was like the patron saint of the city. Uh so I think every time we're walking into church, it was like, okay, this is like uh, you know, that that was like, you know, my introduction to like painting, for example, and then like all a lot of like the cardwood sculptures that you would see, you know, inside of the church. So I would say that I would be like my introduction to like art, or we you know what we would see as art then, uh to me, for example. So even like early on, like all the little little drawings I was doing as a kid was just like little saints or like you know, it's like very common for Caribbean households to just have like that. There's like one iconic, I mean iconic, but it's like uh very common like Jesus painting that every Caribbean household has and also like the little um baby Jesus with like the I don't know if you've seen it with like the pink robe. Yes

and it's like standing like this. So those two uh were the ones that uh kind of um were like common, you know, I would say like works that I saw throughout. Uh there's also this like um that is also very common to Caribbean household, but like mostly like Dominican households, it's like either like the it was either like the fruit basket paintings or like uh landscape, like tropical landscape painting situation. Very I I would say like Bob Ross esque, like more about like the brush strokes and how the brush strokes creates like the different like shapes and stuff like on itself. So those were the two like the predominant styles that I saw. One going to church first and then in a different households too, uh growing up.

Rob Lee: Wow. So in going and going also there, there's that sort of transitional period too. Like uh I read what you were about 13 when you you moved to So that's sort of in the Caribbean in the DR. So what were some of those images like early on in that sort of age of like you know, 13 or or so being here, being in the US, and like what was that like? Because but I think it was 13, like this is high school ish. I'm seeing things great.

Bony Ramirez: You just cover your music table. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I think I think definitely I like you said, like I think 1314 is such a like definitive age for like a teen, but that was the year that I you know, I moved like quote unquote, you know, officially to this country because I had to like visit it before a couple of times, but this was like as a guitarist, but this is like the first time like actually living here. Again, in that like of course I didn't know it is then, but it was like definitely like the definitive years that basically define uh most of your like adult, but I would say. Which

is like again, like you said, you did kind of like define your taste, like do you see like who you are as a person a little bit? So it was it wasn't as easy to like assimilate fully, uh, you know, going through like because I did eighth grade and then high school uh in the US. So I came eighth grade. Um luckily for me, most of my classmates had also came to the country the same summer, because we all started in September. So none of us knew English, first of all. Um I knew a little like some words from the times that I had visited the US before. Um,

but not like enough to even have a conversation with like little things and just like watching TV, also like in DR, like in in English and stuff. Um so yeah, I would say it was definitely like a transf it was definitely like um it was difficult to navigate in that sense. It's like like one, I have to find out who I am like as a person, but I first have to go through this like you know immigrant story that you, you know, it's like there's that it feels more of that division of like you know you're like in a foreign land, you know you're not in your like comfort zone. So I think those like first couple years in high school I would say because I also have to go through like the ESL program. So I was like, I think the first two years I was in the general program and then because at that age you kind of also learn like English fast enough, like the younger that you are, like it's easier to learn a different language. So I think once I I joined the quote unquote general program, because we were always put on the side as like doubling students. Uh because in my school, and it I mean, I I didn't mean I hate to say this, but it's sometimes it was literally like the special ed kids and the bilinguals, that's what we're called, and then the general students. Um

even though like most of the classes were still like Latin American, but they were just like the American Americans, if that makes sense. Uh so yeah, there was like the the interesting dynamics that now was in a dough. I looked back and I'm like, okay, that was a little fucked up, you know, but like certain cases. Um but again, I I I must say, you know, I had like a lot of like cool friends, and we kind of like all um I don't say grew up together, but just like we all went through this like school process all together. Um and I think in high school basically was right, was able to like like I had art classes, for example, like uh when I was able to like create my own schedule, which is like unheard of in my country. Um it was like, oh, I can actually have like art classes. Um so that's where I was able to just like explore like my, you know, like learning a technique, like you know, shading with a pencil, uh sh what was her name? Miss Cyrello, really great teacher. Uh so and feels like it encouraged me to like keep like um you know, trying like the um the different materials and like when we all did like because there was some assignments where we all did like the same kind of composition and like you can tell like the difference a little bit, and that's where I was like, okay, maybe I'm actually like good at these things. And

I would say like the last two years in high school, I I got into AP studio art. Uh shout out to Miss Napoli. She was like my teacher there. So I did do the AP studio art uh thing uh exam like two like two years in a row. And that's where like my introduction of like creating bodies of work, because the exam makes you do, okay, we want a concise group of like 10 10 uh paintings, like you know, works uh to submit, and then you submit like a portfolio of like of like different mediums and experiments that you've done. So I think that was a kind of like an introduction of like, okay, how do we create a body of work? Because I remember you also have to like first you have to like upload it online, but you also have to send the board of education, I think it was like five different drawings physically in uh in a folder for them to like evaluate and stuff. And I did really well. So I think those those were like the introductions to like, okay, art could be a thing. But even at that point, um like especially like senior year high school, I didn't think like what I do now, which is in my head it was like my dream job, but it's like this is not realistic at all. Um again as a whole that was like immigrant parent, like you know, we came to the country to you have to make sure that you do this like, you know like unfortunately and it's still, you know, it's like artists just seem like as a hobby. Uh

because we also don't have a lot of examples of that back in our country of like a successful artist, for example. So that's also like the underlying thing that we can discuss later. But uh yeah I think it was I think that's where I do it was okay I'm actually good at this but I also didn't think that what I do now it's like something that's I I I saw it more as like okay they're training me with the tools that I can use for these real jobs. AKA could be I was looking into like architecture and I was looking into like then I heard about this thing called art director and I was like, oh maybe this guy can do that was not good at math. I was a good student but Math it was a literate I was like I didn't like numbers. I

just did good 'cause I had to do good. But uh yes I would say that was like my introduction to like actually feeling that maybe I had some kind of gift. Uh like actually having teachers and like other students be like, okay this is something that you know could be explored even though I didn't think yeah I always thought even though at that time just like it's like a little hobby that I have, you know.

Rob Lee: That's it it's it's interesting. Like you have that that sort of period and it is as you were touching on it is that sort of you know phase where so many different things you're exposed to so many different things. And it's just change upon change and you know what I think about that era at one point I wanted to be a comic book artist. That was the lane I wanted to go into it, gosh, gosh, yeah.

Bony Ramirez: I wanted to be a children's book uh artist, illustration artist, yeah.

Rob Lee: I mean look we we're gonna still make it happen. Uh but i it was one of those things where you know I I I guess upon looking at it and it's just hit me when you when you're talking that I was like maybe the precursor I guess if you will was I was able to bring together all of these different things. Like I was trying to do everything. I was trying to do the inking, the writing, the illustration of

Bony Ramirez: shade all of it okay I can bring all of these elements together which is kind of a producer I was like, oh I'm doing that right now and the the the other piece of it before I move into this this next question, the other piece of it is um I used to like hold court. I used

to hold court with the friends with the homies. Okay. I'm like yo, so these are the movies I watched and I would share the story of the movies I watched because they weren't getting these movies. So I'm like and I've shared this on this podcast before where I used to embellish sometimes. So it was a few times where I didn't have a chance to watch the movie but I still enjoyed having an audience.

Rob Lee: Gotcha, okay I don't know if you've ever read the jacket of a book or the back of a D V D but I would talk about the movie based on that I watched it.

Bony Ramirez: Okay, okay, okay.

Rob Lee: So I was like storyteller.

Bony Ramirez: So you enjoyed also having an audience.

Rob Lee: isn't it? You're not wrong.

Bony Ramirez: Okay, okay, okay, okay yeah this is yeah.

Rob Lee: So in in in some ways it was it was kind of that precursor of of sharing a story, putting together a story and you

Bony Ramirez: know Did you ever do our like art classes in high school at all or no?

Rob Lee: Um I did. Um you know painting um some murals and didn't do um any uh we we had like a music class and we did a little recorder and I'm like I don't I can't say that who's

Bony Ramirez: mom to do an episode when we get to meet Rob Lee and then I interview you and you're just like oh that's my story and I ask you all the questions you ask me and then I back anyways.

Rob Lee: Look no don't threaten me with that because here's the thing here's the thing every year I do a January twentieth episode where someone interviews me for my birthday.

Bony Ramirez: Oh wow okay okay and it always was like whatever they want. So this past year I had three different guests come on and they asked me whatever they wanted. One we got into a very heated debate not really but he debate about vegetables for some reason. I was like yeah I was like so broccoli is overrated and here's the reason.

Bony Ramirez: Gotcha, okay, okay. Well my birthday is January twenty eighth.

Rob Lee: So Oh, you're on a four-year. Dang. Yes, it's a four-year. So we can do that in the middle of the week. Okay from 20 to the eighth. We got it. Let's do it. Let's make it happen.

Bony Ramirez: Put a little bookmarkers Sorry continue.

Rob Lee: No no um so this is this next question because I think we we talked we touched on a little bit and I was this the thing that I rarely do. I reached out to my man Joey and I was like what do you know about Bonnie literally and he was like I know as much as you do and I was like all right.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah shit okay Okay. And I'm always looking for that in and um so this question in part was the first question that I wrote for this conversation. So uh Scottish artist Douglas Gordon said um there is something quite beautiful with this with the art thing uh that you can only hold it back for so long and then you have to do it. And you

know I I read and and then I you know heard from Joey as well like you work in construction while like making art so back in what twenty twenty you went full time. Yes, it's correct. Yeah.

Rob Lee: So talk to me about that moment when you couldn't hold back anymore. You decided to like this is the move when your beard like developed you know you know?

Bony Ramirez: Right, right, right. yeah yeah yeah yeah. Um yeah I would say I think I mean first of all I think that was definitely like a dark period in my life like mentally I was not in the I think once because I once I graduated high school I was not able to attend like school like I it was not my choice. I was just kind of like afford it uh at the time because I guess it was considered just like my mom, a little brother so it's not I as soon as I did go to high school as much as I wanted to go like I would always recommend people please go to school if you can you know it's something that I couldn't do unfortunately. Uh so I think there were like two or three years after I graduated high school in 2014. So I would say like up until like 2018 I was just like in a very dark place of like realistically I mean me saying to myself like realistically I'm not gonna get anywhere without a degree in the arts. You know, because you know it's difficult. It's even

more difficult. You mean now I kind of learned my lesson stuff but at that point it was like still very much like you know how me in New Jersey I just keep to the country I don't have I don't even have like art friends like how am I gonna make this work? So I think I always definitely like felt definitely trapped I would say I think because I felt like I had this like gift because I was still like making like trying to make make art and I have I you know I think towards the end of like my senior year high school I I I felt like I had like a a little gist of like what my style could be a little bit uh looking back some of those works because it was like you can see like you can trace like that growth. Um but I would say yeah I w I didn't uh once I wasn't able to go I was like you know I just started working construction with my uncle slash neighbor that we lived in the same same house at the point so my mom was just like oh just go with him so that was like my introduction to it so I just started just like helping him out with just like little tools and stuff to you know until like you know I was able to like get another job or just like you know was able to figure out the whole like school thing. Uh because I did attempt to go to like this community college and it just even like the trim ticket to get there was just not enough for us. So after like one semester I was just like yeah I I I wouldn't I either just I wanted to I just couldn't continue. So um so yeah I think that was really good in press I would say unfortunately uh for those years just because I felt uh that I don't know how to say it in English but like when you and in Spanish is it's called impotencia like you feel like almost like um not only muzzle but it's like you just feel like you just can't move while you have all these things you want to share. So I

think that was her biggest frustration uh at the point. Uh but again you know it was like yeah your life continues so it's just like okay let's just do construction. Um you know I was w love working with my hands in general of course construction was not like my first choice. I was never I wouldn't I mean it was a choice I was like it's not little sorry but yeah but that was just like my job you know I did um we did like a lot of you know painting the houses because we did it was called property perservation so we never worked with like like the homeowners who were not at home there were like bank owned properties that the bank would send us to do any repairs to just keep it afloat basically so they were all vacant homes. So we never got to interact with like people so it was like a little easier in that and that in that term we just had to abide by the by what the bank would tell us to do and the difference with like normal construction is that we have to take pictures of every single thing that we did. That's how we proved to the bank the work that we did. So we had to take before during and after pictures. I mean that was my my boss that was doing that part but just in the on the physical part yeah it was just that um I think I'm losing track of the question a little bit.

Rob Lee: No no no just uh and and and and you're good. Um so and so having having that experience of like like working in construction and and look I'm sitting here enthralled about that process. I have no understanding of that process. So when did you decide to say all right I gotta give this art thing sort of yeah.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah. And this is a little tacky but it I it's generally what I it's I it's generally what I thought in my head as like a 20 year old like 21 year old. So at one point I was like you know I can either keep living and there's a spare mental thing that I had which is I do consider real realistic for the time that I wasn't in. But I was like let me just give it a try. Like at that point I feel like I had nothing to lose like I literally have nothing. Like what

else can I do? So I was still like making like paintings on the weekends like I had like Sundays off at that point only. So that was like my way of just like you know you know working you know during the day. I didn't

have much of a social life because I didn't I didn't keep it when I had my friends from high school so I also didn't have that like oh I'm gonna go out on the weekends you know so it was always just like the art. So at that point it was just um I was like okay let me just like continue like so I started to post my work on Instagram for example that was like my way of getting my work out there and I tried to do uh the whole like open call situations which I always got rejected for them. So it was like those I mean if you have or any artists know that I when you apply to these things you have like this high hope thing just like don't get accepted or you know anything. So I think that was also part of like it's like am I actually good? Like what am I doing? Because it's

like I'm not getting any of these things. But I think what got me out of the hole, and again, as corny as it sounds, uh, in in junior year of high school, I read the narrative life of Frederick Douglass, and I was like just reading through all this thing that this men went through at that time. And I was like, and this is a little, you know, teeny. I was like, as terrible as my life is going now, there's no way that is as worse as what Frederick Douglass went through, and he became this really accomplished like writer specifically. Because one part of the book that I always remember, it was like that he genuinely wanted to write. That was his like big dream, and he went through all these things, and these almost like I don't want to say like a necessary like problems, but things that just came through, he still became persistent to just write and like basically share his art. So that's what I was like, damn, like I cannot complain about what I'm going through now because you have this man that went through all these things, and then he became one of the biggest writers in American history. So that

was the point, like the switch. I was like, damn, maybe I can do it, you know. Maybe it's not that impossible. Uh because

again, times have changed from Fred Futler, clearly. So it's like I there's no excuse. As what I did, you know, told myself, of course, that you know, I mean, later on it changed, but I knew that as a Celta artist, just making work that maybe by the time that I was like 30, 35, that things were that's where things were gonna start for me realistically, as somebody without a degree, as somebody with no connections, it's like that's where I, you know, that's what I was just realistic. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna make it, probably not anytime soon. I know it's gonna be harder for me than probably your average person, you know, artist that gets to go to school and get a C MFA, boom, boom, boom. But I was like, you know, I still tried it, you know. So that's

like how then that transition became into a reality when the pandemic happened, which we can do in the other question. But I would say that was the click for me. That was like, okay, honestly, also the whole like I have nothing to do. Like there's literally I mean, I don't say no point to my life, but honestly, that's how I felt that I was like, let me just, you know, go for it. Let me just put my work out there and just see what sticks.

Rob Lee: No, that's it's it's great. It's it's uh it's like you know, that you're able to take sort of what that dark time is, that dark experience, that dark period, yeah and just have that I I uh I I suppose the way that I'm viewing it is sort of the relativity of it. It's just like, well, I read this and I'm seeing this. It's like yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. And you know, I think that that era, that that 2020 era, it's a lot of just adds to it. It's so many, you know, and I I'll say this.

Bony Ramirez: That's when we turned the page in my in my history book.

Rob Lee: Sorry, continue. No, that's the part when that that era, if you will, like I started this podcast in 2019. So like just July of July of 2019. So the beginning of next week as we're recording this will be the seventh anniversary of this pod. Oh, wow,

okay, okay. And you know, so 2020, I'm maybe 20 episodes in, you know, and then I'm like, we're all home, and just doing my interviews kind of like this, but really trying to figure it out and reason through it. And the the thing I referenced earlier of having folks come back on, a lot of those interviews were from that time. So talking with folks who are maybe the darkest period, the most isolated periods and like talking about their work and really maybe getting some light and some juice from that, and then checking back with them. How you doing? Where's the work at now? What what

do you do on these days? It's very interesting. And one of the things you touched on, um the self-taught taste. Um I look I I look at it like like like this. Where and I like that you you touched on very aquarious of you, of um I know these things. I know

that it's gonna be more of a challenge. I know that these are the things that it's more of a realism thing, I think. Like than necessarily negative. It's like this is the reality of the matter.

Bony Ramirez: So what I basically told myself is like I well, I didn't believe in myself as a person as much. I did believe in the work. That's something I would say, it's like, you know, I was like, you know, maybe I at that point, I'm still a little shy, but at that point I was like, really, I don't want to talk to nobody. But I was like, as much of like a shy person is like, as much as I don't want to talk, like I feel like the work would speak for itself. And that's where that's what I was confident on. Like I felt like the more that I, you know, perfected the craft and stuff, I was like, okay, there's something here. Even though whenever I got rejection it was a little bit like, damn, I maybe I'm wrong. But it was just like, you know, like, you know, I believe I generally generally believed in the work, but again, I did think it was gonna take a little longer, which was still really realistic of me thinking. Like I had to be realistic with myself. I I

was not gonna I think, oh, I wanna when I'm 24, I'm just gonna start showing like that was not realistic as like a self-to-artist. Again, we had a pandemic happening, it was just not, you know, it's like basically, you know, the worst times, but again, that's where everything shifted for me in a positive way.

Rob Lee: So are you and this is this is just an aside now because I think it connects. Uh are you still shy as an individual was still like supremely confident in your work? Because if so, I relate to that in such a way where it's like me, no, I'm I'm terrible in in person. But the work, the interviews are fine. Check those out. Don't talk to me.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think I think as I became an artist, I think I did become more confident in myself. I would say I think I was once again for some have like friends in my life, you know, people that I can talk to like like minded individuals that I can just like share thoughts and stuff. So I think I became better at just like speaking to people. I would

say I always been good at like thinking about my work, but again, it was sometimes always about like just starting the conversation. I must say sometimes I do feel small in like non-art spaces, and that's something I'm working on. Because I feel like I haven't had anything to talk about. So uh, but no, yeah, I I I would say like my confidence definitely grew as like my career grew because I feel like so small that I have nothing to say, or in this point that I feel like maybe I have something to say. Maybe I I can like but also I think you also ran into people like a lot of my friends and people that you know genuinely appreciate you. That's something that I didn't have before, unfortunately, that you know, literally just like friends, you know, people that you can talk to, that you can like relate to, you can go do things. So I think all those things that all those things that I was introduced to once I became like an artist or a full-time artist, it definitely helped grew my confidence. I would

say so. I'm that would say I'm a little more hard going, but it's like you know, it's just because that's like I mean, it's also I would say at this point's part of the practice, like I see that as an extension of the work. I feel like some when we can talk about it at the end, more it's like a you know, it's like being an artist now, just like a gallery artist or a full-time artist is more than just being the city making the work. You have to be out there talking to people, and it's like you it kind of pushes you depending on what you would like to achieve. Uh we had kind of pushes you, you have to be out there, unfortunately. Whether it's there or not.

Rob Lee: You gotta come up to D say uh schmoos.

Bony Ramirez: Yes, yes. You saw what I did that already.

Bony Ramirez: Right.

Rob Lee: I like the trolls attack. Can you say sh shmoose in Spanish? No.

Bony Ramirez: I don't I don't even know how to say how do you say smoot? Yeah, like yeah, I I don't know. Yeah, that's it, anyways.

Rob Lee: Uh I'm glad it landed. Um Yeah. Um so I'm self-taught in this space. I've been a podcaster for 17 years. Um and this podcast itself is seven, as I was touching on earlier, and I've applied lessons that I've learned from like other stops. Like um, almost concurrently, I've worked as a data analyst in higher ed and I've been able to coalesce these different things, like um having this sort of background and you know, with the the sort of data work, I can you know look at sort of trends and things of that nature, but then also use the podcast background to tell stories with that data, so they both serve each other. So you went from construction to a successful art career. So what did you learn from construction that you apply to your practice early on, your art practice?

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, so definitely I think because I've at one point I was like, why am I going through this? It's like what's the point of my life of going through this? But I think now I understand a little bit better. I think on the technical part, well, yeah, so a lot of like the early panels that I use in my work were things that I I got from like construction scraps, like a lot of like smaller wood, like the um plywood that we use. So on a technical level, like it helped me like a um literally create like the panels for like the paint for Sandy that I made. Once I

realized that like wood was like my medium and not like canvases. Uh but I then also like as I you know kept exploring with materials, I think I was in somebody that was really curious about materials. So a lot of like the tools and the cutting and like the a lot of like the um not solution finding is this another word for that. Uh, but just like you know, like like problem solving that construction has, I think when it comes to like materials or how to do things, that definitely has played a role in my practice now. Even like like my sculptural the sculptures now that it's more like wood, I would say that's a more like literal, like the last social that I just had a couple of months ago. I would say that the that was the most you can see more of that literal, you know, work that I brought from construction, like a lot of like the tools, like I can actually like hammer nail, like simple stuff that people think is easy. But yeah, no, definitely like the thoughts and like you know, also how to build things for yourself that you don't have to a lot of times like outsource or anything if you have the time. You know,

of course now I can afford to like buy channels. Uh but at that point if I needed to make one, I could still make it. So I think that's one thing that I definitely learned from construction that I will always credit that and like you know, my bosses for teaching me those things. Uh but again they never trusted me with like cutting tools. Like I

never I I could not hold the saw. Even like it took like uh because I I was in construction for like from 2014 to 2020. So I would say the last two years is when they actually trusted me with like the handsaw and different things. I just like cutting like tile, for example, like you know, for somebody to like every part of what needs to keep a home from like the outdoor, the roofing work, you know, doing uh bathrooms and kitchens and all that stuff. So like how to put together a toilet, you know, which is things that so I and it's still stuff that I can remember, but I did learn a lot of like more in the material driven part of my painting. That's why that some of them are more like sculptural and like I would say like because like the first more sculpture paintings that I made were like what I call like the sword paintings or the machete paintings where I had like actual source and things like into the panel. And I

was like, okay, how do I make this? So I came up with this like metal racket thing in the back and it's just like little things like that that I can always credit like the knowledge that you learn from uh you know, your past jobs are like in construction, uh when it comes to that, you know. So I think definitely in the technical level of making the work, it it definitely is something that I you know that I got from like construction too.

Rob Lee: So also in that in that sort of you you touched on earlier, like sort of you were working pretty much you know, construction Monday through Saturday. And then you're able to work or your your art on Sundays, but that's a packed schedule. Some people

are like, I don't want to do anything, I am done. So the the the repetition and the sort of work ethic, did that also play a role in like how you're working now when you're in as a full time artist.

Bony Ramirez: I think I do I'm not sure if it came from that, but I do as an artist, I try to really keep it like nine to five, like I try to set that schedule. Like I try I'll just have like a tight deadline. I do work better at in during the day. And I try not to go past like six. Like if

I don't have a tight deadline. Sometimes of course you work late night if it's like but I think yeah, I do I I definitely like morning person like a literally like a nine to five, eight to eight to f eight to six situation. But I'm actually I'm not sure if it came from that. I think I just like that. I I I would say I I guess I really also wanted that structure as much of a free time that I have because I do, but that I it's that I there's still some kind of structure into the practice. Uh definitely, yeah, yeah. But I don't think, yeah, like even like the first three years I would say we kinda worked like seven days a week a little bit. Because it was just like what we got, you know. Um and

the pandemic where things slow down. That's like it was either difficult also for me to like quit that job at that point because my boss had to fire everybody on the team except for me. So it was just me and him. So when I had to break it down to him that I'm was gonna quit him and become an artist, he was like, Oh, are you sure this is real? They're probably

scamming you or in the pandemic. And I was like, Well, I'm just gonna go to take a leap of face, you know. Everything and they luckily it works because that was it was gonna be embarrassing if I had to go back to him, like, hey, come Manhattan.

Rob Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen that like Miss Juicy uh meme? No. And she's like, Miss Juicy from like little woman, and she's like, Hey, hi, and they're just entering the room. That would have been me asked into you. Uh, you've probably seen it, you just probably don't remember. You know, Miss Juicy, right?

Rob Lee: No, I'm unfamiliar. I'm not him.

Bony Ramirez: Oh my god, Miss Juicy. Wait, is that her name? I think it is. Yeah, it's Miss Juicy. She's like from a l little lady. Just Google it real quick. I'll I'll

Google it. Anyway, but that's like that's how it was gonna feel. Like, but you know, luckily it worked. But yeah, I think uh that was definitely a like a part of just having that talk with my boss is like, you know, because it also tested how much I actually believed in my in my work. Be like, I am actually leaving a realistic job for something, you know. Because at that point I had like because my first show was like an online show. So I was still working construction during that online show. So once that did really well, I was like, oh my like, I mean at that point I was like, oh my god, a thousand dollars for a painting, that's crazy, you know. It's like, you know, uh so I also had like the money saved from that show, which was like an online show. You just log into the website and just that's it was a show. But again, I would for me I was more happy uh at that point.

Rob Lee: I did, I I did it. That's okay.

Bony Ramirez: really funny, actually. You see, you It's like she walks in and she's like oh hi, Andy. Anyway, but yeah, so I think that was like a test into like how much I actually believe in the work. Uh I feel like you want to laugh, but I can go ahead.

Rob Lee: That's good.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like if you had gotten the reference, I feel it would have been funny, but it's okay. Yeah, I feel like you've probably seen her, but just I have.

Rob Lee: I have. I'm not I'm not hip though, that's the thing. Like all I do is podcast. It's the only thing I know how to do is podcast. Everything else, more social. Nothing.

Bony Ramirez: Just go on Twitter, and you get, like, all the references. Okay. If you don't have a Twitter yet, yeah.

Rob Lee: But so it is it is that thing though you notice where you know when you're you're making that leap, and I like that you really like sort of said that like having that confidence and having that sort of real life kind of example of like these are stakes right here.

Bony Ramirez: This is This is sort

Rob Lee: of what is gonna actually happen here.

Bony Ramirez: Right, yeah. Because also, it's like, If I don't do it now, like I don't know what's gonna be the next the next the next thing, you know. So that was also like it's like he either like how much I actually believe in the work, like do so it was like it was like a literal example of like me and sex thing. My boss was like, Yeah, I think I do think this is cool. I think

I might do it, boom boom. And it was like, oh, so it's like it was also a little tension at that point. Um but uh because it's like you're really leaving me for this freaking job.

Rob Lee: You're leaving me for art? I can't believe it. Yeah. So I was like trying to explain to my family, like the little thing I'm gonna do with my mom. It's like, hey, I think I'm gonna do this, and she's like, eh, I'm sure. Uh so yeah, I was just like again, it was just I that would I I would say that was the first time that I would say I felt like I was making an adult decision. Yeah. I

think that was also like a leap into like adulthood if you want to call it that way. I was like, okay, I'm a person, I'm an adult, I decide that I can do this. As as scary as it was, because I didn't know again within the pandemic, I was just starting to work with this gallery to make my first show like online. I I hadn't even met the galleries in person. It was all online. He even the galleries had never even seen the work in person. They realized

that it was collage once they got to to the gallery and stuff. So it was like a lot of things that I was saying, but let me just go I I just went for it, you know. And it paid off, you know. After that, they offered me like a physical solo show the same year at the end, and then that's where things started rolling basically. So speaking of rolling, we're gonna roll along and I want to get into specifics. Let's talk about uh could you walk me through you know the the the process, your process, like um and I know it's always when I talk to artists, it's like, well, you know, each each sort of body of work is a bit different, but sort of the configuration is

Bony Ramirez: like I'm not that kind of artist.

Rob Lee: Oh, yes. But so where does a piece begin for you? That's that's when I start there.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, so I think for uh like my work, it's very uh mixed media again. I think people that see it online if they think they're paintings. But I think uh they're basically the so the figures are made on uh they're a mixture of a paper as a bristle paper, uh an acrylic wash, then color pencil and then oil pastel, and then color pencil again. So the

f the figures were all are always made on a sheet of paper almost the same size as the wood panel, and I will roll back and forth between the wood panel, which is the background and the figure. So I would have like two works at this, you know, two words, quote unquote, because there's like two parts. So as I'm working on the on one, I can jump to the other and stuff. Usually I would have like three paintings at the same time. Um just

I can jump from sorry, one thing to the other. So I think as I once like the figure is done, then I can cut it out and then glue it onto the wood panel and then continue to build the painting to make you seem like they belong together. Some paintings are a little bit more obvious that it's uh I I do like a lot of like solid colors to emphasize a little bit of that uh mixed media collage aspect because a lot of people still don't know that these are like mixed media works. That's why I would never call myself like a painter. Like if

I say I'm a painter, just to like just get out of the way, because it's easier to explain that it's like mixed media, so they're all like mixed media work essentially. That's why I also added then like the wallpaper, which is another part that uh I think as I became more comfortable with this like mixed media aspect, then I started adding like the wallpapers uh to like emphasize a little a little bit of that collage element. Uh and basically you just came for like necessity, like uh artists, those were the materials that I had access to. So color pencil, oil pastel, uh uh watered down paint and you know, wood panels. So and that's all the materials that I still use today. Of course, I had like, you know, sharpened the work, you know. I, you

know, that it has gotten like better, and I have you know, now I have a studio that I can like move stuff around before it's just my mom's kitchen. So uh so it was like yeah, so that I think on the technical part, that's how like the work starts essentially with uh I and not a like a uh I do like quick sketches. I don't I don't do like preliminary painting drawings like some artists do. Uh I I because there's a big I just would do like a quick sketch of like what the general composition would look like, and then once it goes into the big paper, quote unquote, then that's where it changes a little bit, or I just have it on my head or in terms of what I want it to look like. But again, it can shift because that's sort of things. Once I do the figure, I can move it around the panel with like a sticker, basically. Until of

course I decide a a spot and then I I would just go with there. Um yeah, that's if they're just like you know, painting paintings, you know, some some of my works I then I start adding a lot of like three-dimensional elements. I think also like the beauty and the strength of like wood panels, because you can add a lot of things like like uh like I mentioned, like the swords in the first paintings and then like seashells and like other wood on top of the wood, so you can create these more like mixed media emphasize a little that a little bit more. Um and then we go to sculpture, which is like another conversation, but I would say that's how the paintings on the technical level. Uh so

I would usually work on like three or four paints at the same time. Because while one thing drives, I can jump to the other and then jump to the other at like especially if I'm working on like a solo show, for example.

Rob Lee: Does does the being able to work between kind of prevent or maybe not prevent the uh I guess I like this notion of like novelty, like you know, when someone is working on like multiple things, is it like oh let me, you know, it kind of breaks it up a little bit.

Bony Ramirez: Well, I think especially if they're like for like a solo show, they kind of like even if the paintings are all gonna be different, like they kind of inform themselves a little bit from one another. And I

think also see how they would work together too. Uh so I think that would be the only thing of just like working with several at the same time. Uh but I would say, yeah, they're usually like really different each time. Uh because I I feel like when I do bodies of work, I treat like solo shows as like this is a body of work of my bodies of work. So there's always like different avenues of like there's always like a signature set of paintings that you will have. Like I so far haven't I think just one show where I created like an actual like a body of work when they're on the in the same world, which is a show that I had in Shanghai where it was like this like uh ballet school and they all physically were in like in the same space in the paintings too. But usually they will have like an array of different stories that just would relate more conceptually and not literally in the show.

Rob Lee: And then it also in that sort of introductory phrase, where does before you get to the technical, where does the idea come from? Where does the ideation come from? Like I know I want to do 15 pieces or you know, and I want to do pieces that incorporate this. Is it at a stage where it's like I want to incorporate this particular material because I think it's gonna be a challenge, or you know, I want to definitely like challenge myself where I have something really strong I want to say in using these materials. Talk about that a bit.

Bony Ramirez: So I think for me, and that was like I think the side effects of uh being stuck for so long. I feel like I have so many ideas that I already know what I'm gonna make like in five years. So I already know I you know, it does like sometimes it just changes like conceptually. There's certain topics that I want to explore, or like if let's say I end up exploring that's what I mean, like some shows like an array of ideas that then later on I can dissect the idea more than others, like in future shows, for example. So I think they all like every show is like an introductories to something new, for example. But I always have like, of course, I try to like because I think what a lot of artists struggle that sometimes how do we keep it fresh? How do we how do we make sure that the next show is better than the previous one? So that's

where it comes. It could either be more and the way that I like to see it for my work is either would be more in the composition of the paintings or the materials in my case. So either like I would introduce like a different material, like a different texture, or I would make my composition a little bit more different that they feel a little stronger than the previous show, for example. Uh so I think that's the way that I like to see in terms of like how do I up or like how do I make sure that this show is pre is better than the previous one? Well also

keeping it fresh. It's like okay, you can tell that the art like I love when I see like artists, like my contemporaries, like you can tell that they they were their work has grown from show to show. Uh which sometimes it could be a challenge when you're doing like two shows a year, but or like two or three shows a year. But again, in my case I just have like all these ideas. But yeah, it's definitely always a challenge to decide, okay, how do I make sure that people are so excited to see my work? That they discover new things that it's like it doesn't feel as you know, uh as like, okay, I've seen his war a great, you know, it's like which you know it's like yeah.

Rob Lee: They think of a Jay-Z line for some reason at that point. Right. Which is which is what's like you'll be able to do it.

Bony Ramirez: to own

Rob Lee: stuff No, it was like my own albums. It's just like I'm always trying to progress. I'm always trying to do something that challenges and showing that sort of even if it's a a degree of a degree, even if a full degree, like I want to do something

Bony Ramirez: that's if this was like a video interview, you could do the little after the line.

Rob Lee: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, that would be the transition into the next question.

Bony Ramirez: Right, right, right, yeah, right. Right, and it just opens into like the like zoom in into like the diamond and secure. That's fine.

Rob Lee: See? Take a bite. Good. Go ahead. Go ahead. So you can hire you need to hire me, like, you know. I'm gonna hire if if I have time, yes. I could do like some side conversation.

Rob Lee: Go ahead. Look, you you're gonna ask you you owe me Dominican spaghetti, so that's what we're already at. So you've already had that.

Bony Ramirez: You're the other artist introduced it as though that was exactly.

Rob Lee: good one. Uh so I I've seen it in in some of your work, the uh subjects are described as um bold yet strange. Umsteriously oversized or contorted. So what are you what are you after in sort of uh presenting the subjects in this sort of distorted or or like distorted manner? I'll just use that for lack of a better term.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, I think so. I think I guess I would start saying with like how how my figures ended up being this this way. I think again as a self-artist, you know, I was never gonna proportion, so I just kinda like kept exaggerating that. So I think I definitely like study a lot of artists that were again dealing with a lot of these like figures and stuff. So I I know always like you know, figure of art, for example, to make figurative art. So um that's the kind of how we got to these figures, and I think as I became more curious about like the limits of the human body over like what we see as like a the human body, and that's where like I started to explore a little bit more. I almost like see almost like a landscape, like you have like a you know, somebody that works from memory because uh you know, none of them my figures are referenced to like actual people so far. Um that

it's like how how how can it change this landscape? Like almost even like the body body as a landscape that changes throughout figure to figure. Because I also like to make sure that while they're all figures in my work, none of them unless it's like intentionally are supposed to be the same person. So that kind of pushes me to like how what twists and turns can this figure have that makes him completely different to the other one. So I I would say you see that more like in the fingers and the toes and like sometimes like in the body itself, where it's like a little bit more evident. I think

especially like the earlier work where like the body is a little like the focus more. Uh and like the last show that I did uh in January of uh last year. Uh was it just here? No, that was last year. Uh was

it this year? Never mind and you know where you just like th you know I think I was being curious about like how do I keep these like figures like unique and fresh but also like how how do I keep exploring the body or like what it what is the hu you know what's human because they all look like people technically you know but I wouldn't I see them like in their own world. I you know as much as I nice related what some of the figures may be of course I like to keep them I I like to make sure that there are pointers that tell you this is not a human being. Like you can feel represented or like you can see yourself in the figures of course like a lot of people have like mention about my works but you know they want them to be their own essentially and they're being in their own like world and narratives while still feel approachable to the human eye essentially. Yeah.

Rob Lee: And it it has a distinctness that's there and I was like oh yeah that's that's that's your work. That's that's absolutely yeah, yeah.

Bony Ramirez: So I got two more, well two and a half more real real questions. So you you're using very European painting traditions, Renaissance, um mannerist uh Caribbean subjects and stories. So I I have a I have an inkling but what drew you to that approach? I think well this is definitely like that introduction to like I think we are always fed with European art as like the standard of art. So I think initially like as I develop my style like that's what I always like gravitated towards I think even going back to like you know like the same depiction in church and like Renaissance art being like tied completely to that. So I

think visually I think that's what fed that into the work. And I think I just started exploring a little bit more as I also became more inclined like history like Caribbean history in general and how much Europe has like shaped but also like made us quote unquote what part of what we are today and like in different islands and stuff. So I think that's always kind of like conceptually a thread in the works but also just like um just like reintroducing those things that we usually see as like the epitome of art perfection history, you know like the greatest art is though it's gonna be like you know it's history books like you know the European art is like this is like the most beautiful example of like mastery, you know so I think starting from there and then just changing it into my own basically way like you know uh because I yeah I mean it's also coming from a country that doesn't like we like you don't have like art classes and something is not something that's like put in the forefront unfortunately like as much as like for like in America for example. So I think again that was like my pointer you know and then that's how it started like all these compositions and then again I was I you know like I'm really inspired again by like Talymanorist and the Renaissance so I have used a lot of those like compositions from that time period it to just then just like change a little bit to like you know almost like reinterpreting that history uh with the subject

Rob Lee: essentially exactly that's what I was thinking.

Bony Ramirez: Okay. No I I was just kind of like getting I was like oh this is this is what's happening. I like this I think just thinking just like you know how much like history changes based on like the people who tell tell it it's like how much it would be if like like sometimes like some pain is it's like oh what if the Caribbean wasn't colonized how well how would it look like how would our architecture look like how would how much we have developed in different ways and maybe so as somebody that works with like surrealism and magical realism those are things that kind of like take into account and like I can create my own world and I can imagine those possibilities essentially.

Rob Lee: It's a speculative fiction angle what's going on there.

Bony Ramirez: Okay I never Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Lee: It's like the what if of it all, you know you know?

Bony Ramirez: Oh, sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Lee: yes so I I I want to hold I'm gonna hold this last question because it's it's definitely something that that piques the the bizarre curiosity but I want to go into this real quick. Is it about spaghetti? It is not it is not it it would be a later question. Okay. So you're you're in Jersey City. You you had some ties to Harlem no or

Bony Ramirez: my Yeah I lived in Harlem for like two years.

Rob Lee: So right down as sort of like you know epicenter of just this sort of New York art world, this New York art scene. And in fact, you know that's what we met in IRL at Future Fair actually. And I was like oh real people you know and so talk about that experience sort of like being there at the sort of start and being able to of your sort of transition into art and growing as an artist in that scene.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah I mean the thing is saying undeniably you know New York City is the epicenter of the art world in the world. So I think of course an essential part of my growth as an artist is being so close in proximity physically to the New York art scene. You know

like even something like oh New York New Jersey, you know, that's like everybody from Jersey says um but you know again spending time in Harlem but my city has always been in Jersey though. But yeah I think definitely having again it's all about like the commission for like being present. Like it it was easy for me to like go to open it. Like it's easy for me to go to openings like I'm just right now just in city is only 10 minutes from from New York City. So I think just have being like um having the staying active in the quote unquote art scene, no going to the fairs like where we met it's like that's how you kind of keep uh not saying keep things afloat but that's how how you also like nurture yourself and your friends and just like you like while being just active uh around like of course we have access to like all these very museums and you have like all these like galleries district that unfortunately a lot of cities in America don't even have uh you know we have like Lori Side galleries we have Chelsea gallery so it's this all this ecosystem that as an artist is one really excited to be close to because you know other than museums that teach the history you you see literally what's happening in the art world like you know in the contemporary world same for like where we made like an art fair like that's where another place where it's like you know aside from like the you know the technical money parts of like the art fair is like you actually get to see a lot of like your idols or a lot of artists you admire that you probably won't see like internationally but they're all under this one tent you know in New York City you know so it's like it's it's like this I mean it's definitely like again the epicenter but it's like it definitely helps as an artist to be in New York City or in proximity to New York City based on the access and the and also like the great people that are here too.

Rob Lee: Yeah I you know whenever I go up and I come back I you know I'm up for three to four days at a time get a fair amount of energy a fair amount of juice from it and you know when I was up there back in May and you know it was a very somber time for me and going up there it was a nice departure and being around folks and making connections. Like I think you know I've gotten a number of interviews and even last year I've said this story multiple times. It was a fair I went to last year and I booked seven interviews in like 40 minutes.

Bony Ramirez: Oh wow okay yeah yeah I can see like sort of this everyone is here. Yeah and then people are in in some ways like open too of like oh you do a thing I do. Yes. the world would be on And and it's and it's just great.

Bony Ramirez: So it's like the other Jay-Z or Alicia Key was like if you can make it here you can make anywhere. But it's like you know it's like there will not be a more difficult art ecosystem to go into than New York City. So if you can make it in New York City it's easier for you to make it in any other city in the world when it comes to the art world essentially. So it definitely gives you that confidence like okay I can do it in the most competitive thing because that's the more it's about like how competitive New York is like even if you're a great artist like people will outwork you if you don't you know wake up and be active you know so there's of course like end of stuff and endless opportunities and possibilities. Again sometimes it's a little hard of course and just like getting used to this stuff but it's definitely you know it's worth you know the hassle sometimes I love it. I love it. And I'm glad that you experienced how you know easy it is.

Rob Lee: I don't know if this is easier.

Bony Ramirez: No easy in terms of like you know getting you know some people and stuff like hey you know so and so boom boom boom.

Rob Lee: No that it's it's true. And I think having um my uh my my people up there I just like literally I just like hitch my wagon to like basically my Dominican art friends who are like hey you're going to Noto with us.

Bony Ramirez: I was like oh shit let's let's let's do this. So that was that was really tight. Um this is the last question I got last real question I got for you. So lastly you you've explored taxidermy and exhibitions as well.

Rob Lee: Right yeah like Tropical Apex and Cayman Tears. So can you like you know I If you said every time you you see taxidermy it's like a self-portrait. So can you talk about what that means and what's it like working with like with taxidermy like what was that experience

Bony Ramirez: so I would say because as I've created like the you know the how what is the white word like you know as I created like the narrative of my work you know I always have like there's always a part of me in in in my work in my paintings there's always like a story but I usually technically just a lot of times just generalize it to make it more like relative or something that I can expand on later on. So I think I I felt like the need at some point to be a little more personal. As I became more comfortable in my work I I felt like I could be a little uncomfortable in like again going like from being a little too sh a little bit shy. It's like how do I let people know me a little bit more. I think that's the part again like that it's interesting in some sense is just know more about the artist. So I

think that's something that I wanted to give myself permission to it's like hey it's okay if people get to know this part of your life for example. So for the taxidermy works they're always like you know because a lot of the paintings have just like general narrative like I said but like the taxidermy works have specific uh events in my life for example that a lot of times not the best of no they're never positive events. But it's like that was my way of just like processing through them and just like thinking back through them. Again a

lot of the kids that we talk about here just like coming to this country or just like you know not being able to go to school when they're like those there's have been so those particular works where I can like talk more about that like experiences. Like talk more about the artist and not so much about the art essentially so that was like my gateway through. And I almost like admired Tethermy of course like introduced through I think it was a mixture between like Marisa Catalan and like Dane Hearst it's like okay like these like animals I do like to focus though on like more like farm animals like animals that I grew up with in DR. So it's

kind of like there's this like relatable aspect to them. I don't think I said this before but there's this one moment in my childhood because we had like this like chicken farm in our backyard. And I think for I I don't know what was the four virus crying and I and I went to my backyard to just part by myself and I saw all the chickens like staring at me like we're on together. So I think oddly it's one part that I always think about um that I'm like okay I see you you see me you know uh in that way so I think that's why especially use like a a lot of like you know the um the cows and like the bulls and like the the chickens are roosters again was I grew up with if I can find a horse which is very difficult to find a typodie horse uh then I'll use like a horse because I think I've used like yeah I think I I mean because I use like skulls uh horse goes but you know there's usually like farm animal that I feel like there's that like I wouldn't I wouldn't like I remember it's here so it's like exotic animals because I feel like we have nothing to talk about like you're a foreign thing. Um so

I think these things I feel proximity that I can see myself in. So you say I would source them either like from like auctions or like uh eBay. Um so but and I would uh a lot of times I would let like the animal dictate like what story I want to tell I I want to tell with it. Uh with Tropical Apex I think was uh I would think it was a more for more formal introduction to like those uh taxidermy a little bit more like in the those were the ones that I I like I had done like in the groups and stuff but I feel like they had like a better a bit a bigger platform for that show um that I wanted to show because more and I must I mean it was a little weird in the beginning I must admit um uh like it's like you know like the like you were alive at some point or you're not you know uh there was a work a taxidermy work this is the only one that it's been a little bit like I was like oh a little too like uh closed like there was uh I showed a uh you probably seen on Instagram there's this I made this sculpture uh for my show at the Nord Museum that was like this calf like change and from the ceiling and stuff. So that one was the only one where I ha actually was in contact with the person who actually made the taxidermy. The other

ones were just like either like in seats or things that we were sourced for like companies and stuff. But this one I I actually bought it from somebody that actually made it and it was like you know she was sending the source like a she has like a farm it's like a stillborn and she just decided to make a sex for me. So it's like sometimes it's a little a little bit of those like bigger connections but I think the more that I put my story into them it kind of gives them a new life that makes sense. So again and so at that point they just I mean that's bad as it may sound I see I would see them more as like a medium to the art or uh artwork than like a dead animal. Of course I know that for a lot of people you know seeing like these animals are like just using taxidermy is like really sensitive. And we have some complaints, you know like for that New York Museum show we had like Fox News come in to like a video of me and they were like yeah we're not going to this room. And I

was like okay like so I was excited to talk about that that show. So they were like yeah we're not doing it. Because I always give a tour of my thing for TV and they were like yeah we're not going there. So it's like you know it's like a little I know I understand so I think I think that's what it's important you know for anybody that's wants to use taxidermy in the future you have it's good if you have a really strong backup to like I don't see justifying you just have to justify your work to anybody but to make sure that this is not for shock sally for example like how some artists do it. But that's a little bit of the taxidermy part that gets a little bit misconstrued. It's like some people do it for the shock of like having those which is you know as much as I like again uh have like creditors like uh Damien Hurst and Marce Katelan for like introducing me to the thing sometimes they do do it for like the Shak Valley but I don't want to be in that same conversation where I just do it for the sake of doing it. That's why I'm really intentional when I do it but also I know that my story will be attached to that like a very particular like probably not the best story and it has to it has it has to make sense has to be not just for the sake of doing them. So that's why they're always been like part of a part of in my work. Just like I think like I I think even because the I think like the introduction to them was even like me using like seashells and just like natural materials in my practice like so like decision on the horns for like the prelude to then moving on to like taxidermy works a little bit more.

Rob Lee: That makes sense and and I like that you explained it you you made the connections and really added the storytelling component to it as to the why and the how and I find that I've said this to someone recently and it is yeah wrap up on this full apart before going into the rapid fire portion. I remember talking with a friend who's venturing off into comedy and you know he's just like yeah you know I want to be able to write what I want to write I want to have to justify it to anyone. It's like you shouldn't. But If you're going to do something that is risque and it's not purely for you and if it's for an audience It's just going out there to be publicly are you able to explain and you know those choices. Not justifying

but are you able to explain those choices. Or you're pigeonholing yourself into a spot that you're the guy that says the racy humor. Correct. And I think you know listening to your your reasoning and what what goes into your mind and your thinking it's just like oh you should be able to do whatever you want. You know how to describe your work and explain why you're doing that.

Bony Ramirez: Yes I guess that's I would say that was one of the that was one of the um and like to her example like that was one of for example one of the big meetings that when I was talking to the curator of my show at the North Museum like she was like okay we love it, but why do one do it? 'Cause you know the museum has to make sure that so like in fancy people so you know I was ready to just like I would kinda put like I don't think put on the spot but uh you know the curator makes sure okay let's make sure that you know the what that you generally want this work and we will work with you of course but it's it's important for us to know okay why is now look I want to have a thing hanging from the ceiling you know that's like you know okay like why are we doing this like it makes sense so you know it was like tied to like the the process that that actually was a work that I made about my work my time working construction. It was it

was called I mean it is called uh saying sitting in a bucket of paint 'cause that's what most of the time I sat in the back of the band in the bucket of paint I never got a chair for myself uh th during those like five years. Not to call I may both all that but you know it's one of those things that I look back that it was so normal to me and there's certain things that I'm still like processing like mentally. So it's like oh that was look seemed like so like well yeah whatever. And I was like damn like why did it have to sit in a bucket of paint for like four years and not get a chair. Uh it was it was a technical part. It's like if I if they had put a chair the the planks of apply with that are eight by four feet would not sit the back. But of course I

was a little one so I had to like you know sit in the back so uh at some point I graduated to like having like a little cushion top of the kid. Uh but that work was about that for example. Where I where I talk about like very specific point in my life instead of making this grip big narrative about you know uh market construction or like the inequalities and like the work force for example. So stuff like that

just give an example. There's almost a really poorly written like art already like artfully spoken but poorly written like yes and this work is just about not having a seat at the table uh proverbial and you just get a bucket. It's like I hear you know what I mean? in the wrong person's hands it's just like you're missing a mark you're missing a mark. But yeah again sharing sharing those experiences that that thing that's real. That's that's the thing

that people look for and uh so thank you. All right. Now we gotta get down to the the real business here. The rapid fire portion of the podcast. And then I got the page advice and then we're done for the afternoon. Okay. Um so I got three rapid fire questions for you and as I always like to say

Bony Ramirez: that can you just find rapid fire.

Rob Lee: You don't want to overthank them whatever is the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah yeah because I know you artist types.

Bony Ramirez: It's just like you know it's just the

Rob Lee: thing I'm gonna I was like nope.

Bony Ramirez: I we should I would be bad if you give me time I'll just create a whole story. But go ahead. Yeah I think I'm ready.

Rob Lee: I'm gonna do a softball this would be the first one. Okay. You know, 'cause you know baseball. Yeah. You know, I like that Oh Dominican baseball.

Bony Ramirez: No, no, no, I like baseball.

Bony Ramirez: I used to I used to work for Torres for Oracle. Okay, okay, okay. Because it's always like oh Dominican baseball playable.

Rob Lee: But then also Right, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um you're you know you you you're in that NY New Jersey sort of region or what have you. What's the train that you're taking the most? Because I know people are real specific about their stops.

Bony Ramirez: Well it's a past train. So because that's the train that takes the Virginia City to New York. Okay. The past train. If you ever come to my city, Disney City or anyone said you're gonna take the past train uh either World Trace Center, which is like the new stop with you know big building all full of marble or thirty fourth street.

Rob Lee: Okay. That's that's Carol Square. That's why I know I'm getting home. That's the stop I'm always looking for. It's like, oh I can exit I can escape from New York. That is a movie you're too young for you don't remember it probably you're too young for it. Was that what's the movie? Except for New York. Oh I don't know yeah I don't see I guess that I mean

Bony Ramirez: also because it's country for the present two thousand five so anything before that I do not know. That's what something's like it's not that I'm young, it's also that I'm very new to America. Like so if anything 2005 and below I do not know a lot of the time. Unless it's music that's the only thing that I do.

Rob Lee: This is great because that the way that you just like I I've only been here since two thousand five.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah exactly it's like an official movie it's like two thousand nine

Rob Lee: so but but it's like it's like when folks will say hey you should know movies. You're a movie guy and I am a movie guy. Uh huh and I was like I don't watch anything before nineteen eighty five. That was the year I was born so I don't really know what that is. It's like you've seen Star Wars. It's like yeah but I found like a nineteen ninety nine though.

Bony Ramirez: Okay, okay, okay gotcha, okay.

Rob Lee: Um here's the next one. Okay. This one you should been you should be expecting this one. What is your favorite Dominican dish? Garoa. Put me on. Tell me.

Bony Ramirez: Which is like it's like um it's essentially like because there's two versions. There's the the French fry one and the mango one. Which essentially the first layer is just like um let's say French fries and then you top it up with like the it's like a special like Dominican sauce like that. Like I think mayonnaise mix with um uh ketchup and then you put a ground beef and then cheese. It's like a loaded fried but it's like it tastes different if it's like made in a Dominican restaurant if that makes sense. Yeah. And then again like

the mango like the plantain version it's just like match ontains and then you also have like the ground beef then another of like you know uh cheese and then maybe a little thing and then you just kind of like you it's kinda like full apart thing. But I always like go for mango that's like the the the you know like the class I think you've had mango I'm sure at this point. Uh so yeah I would

like fried cheese and salami. I don't do I don't do onions like some people like to do onions I don't do onions. And I don't eat avocados that's another thing. I just like avocados. Which is very uncarible of me but I

Rob Lee: just turned the card in that that sounds delicious actually. Yeah.

Bony Ramirez: So Yao R just look it up I think it's really cool. It just depends like the spot that you go to but I do recommend the plantain one. I think it's for me I prefer but if it's in DR I would definitely say the the the the French wild one but if it's United States usually the the plantain one is safe enough.

Rob Lee: I generally go plantain like you know when I when I worked at the uh the the the Spanish speaking call center we had you know like I said who I used to hang out with and all of that stuff and one of the homies sisters did um she did she did um she did uh lunches Okay. like the sort of like the the the trucks coming out with the styrofoam and it's just like yo so um what you gonna have I was like yeah let me get that you let him get you I was like I'm a

Bony Ramirez: plant yeah yeah

Rob Lee: it's like yeah with the salad I don't care about the salad like the plantains I was like rice right and I'm just asking for the very specific that I don't know. get

Bony Ramirez: regularly. It's like Someone's making this right yes and if you're looking for a dessert I was saying which is which is like sweet beans. Oh which sounds crazy but if you try it I promise you best thing in the world. Okay we usually do it around Christmas though. It's like a I mean we don't have one trend here but that's like an indication that it's like going to close to Christmas. Yes. Uh if you do the I don't even have to say it in like English but it's like I would say like sweet beans. I think it's translated but that's another one that I I recommend highly. Okay.

Rob Lee: You give me two cinnamon it's like sweet and it's like yeah.

Rob Lee: So you're giving me two you're an overachiever You know it's the Aquarius part.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah.

Rob Lee: So this is the last rapid fire question for you. Um extracting this is an extractive rapid fire portion. Uh so I'm updating my Spotify playlist give me a song I need a song it could be whatever genre but I need a song what is like a song that you think of like your favorite song what's the song that sticks out for

Bony Ramirez: you can I see my phone because there's so many options. Wait let me look at my playlist 'cause there's this one artist. She's not making music anymore. She goes by another name but I would say define genuine my teen years. Okay. Uh her name is Natalia

Kills. Anything by her but I would say let me see which song I would recommend it's like the second artist that I oh people want more people to know because it's like you know she goes by another name now she goes by uh cruel youth like her husband uh but sh I would say she defined like my teen years uh here and I I recommend I would say um either broke or Wonderland. Okay.

Rob Lee: I got I got two down I got two options down

Bony Ramirez: that's and also free if you if you it's like a collaboration with layam because she was signed to them and stuff but yeah. Okay. Yeah yeah yeah I must say after the concert that's another thing about going to the JC concert because like I said I'm not familiar with his j oh like early stuff. Yeah. So I didn't know about the you don't know. Oh you don't know fire. I

know but it's like enough of seeing for formal side so that's what I've been listening to since I mean that was like Sunday but that's what I'm saying it's like that's a really good song. Because I like those like power songs that it's like there's like like get up and work type songs. And that's one song which I I didn't say that one because I knew the Frothing plays already but I didn't know about that song as well just because I became a fan by him I will say after Mark Magna Carta. Yeah that's what I was to me that's his best album. Okay. Uh so that's like after

that then I just like been going to like most of the stuff. I'm more like Anya side even though he's crazy but it's like you know like if I had to pick like a favorite rapper like like I only listen to like two men and it's just uh Kanye OS and Jay Z. That's that's right. I don't listen

to male artists like that. Uh other than two and it's on some other here and there. Or like you know there's this Cuban artist called um oh my god that I really it was like my most played person last year. It's like there's some of them are like really like sad songs, but they're also uh very poetic. I actually made like a couple paintings based on his uh music. Uh he is called the way am I blinking out. Um Pablo Milanes, Cuban artist. Uh he was big like in the eighties and the nineties. Uh he passed away uh recently.

Uh but he's another one that I always like. It's more like you know, like more like slow down, but they're more like like poems as like uh songs, basically. Uh so that's another like inspiring artist that I that I that I like into. But yeah, that's kind of like the that was not very rapid.

Rob Lee: No, no, no, no, no, no. It's i it's it's it's a peek into who the person is, and you you mentioned you mentioned uh, you know, most most listen to artists and like minds is so out of pocket at this point. It's just like I have Yingwei Malstein, which is just virtuoso guitar player that's okay Swedish or something like that, and then like Oh, wow.

Bony Ramirez: with no words, I assume uh there's words.

Rob Lee: Okay, okay. He has different uh uh singers that come on and then uh he has this like um this he has this uh this note it's no singer on this, but it's a full album with the Japanese Philharmonic. So they're backing him and it's like from 2000, it is fire. It's just such a justice of basically like shred metal and then like orchestral backing. Wow, okay. It's something. It's something.

Bony Ramirez: It's it's what I would call like like smart people music. Like that's why it's like it's like smart people music. But people that just actually I mean I I love calls a music and stuff, but it's like like you like love it, you know. It's like this is like

Rob Lee: I'm I'm a music guy, I'm usually okay, okay, okay.

Bony Ramirez: I was saying you should like if you say you're a movie guy, they a lot of times like a music guy. But very particular, would you just explain yourself basically?

Rob Lee: And then uh I'll say I just discovered this one dude uh name and I keep playing the sort of filter thing as like I know I hope you're not AI, but it's uh I do name 54 Ultra.

Bony Ramirez: Okay, I haven't okay, I haven't heard about one.

Rob Lee: I'll I'll share. I'll share. I I I I like his stuff. Um is he AI though or no? I don't think he is. I'm I'm always like because I'm always questioning, but I don't think I don't think he is. I think he's a multi-instrumentalist. Um Okay.

Bony Ramirez: dude from Have you checked how is this real like Instagram or pictures?

Rob Lee: Okay, do the whole thing. Okay, okay, so yeah, he's probably real. Um but yeah, I like his stuff and Puerto Rican Dominican dude or what have you. His stuff is great. He's like a throwback, but he's like 24 and it's like, yeah, I'm doing this type of music, and it's just like soul songs.

Bony Ramirez: Okay. Yeah. Okay. So this is the art. Okay, wow, okay.

Rob Lee: I'll put you on. I'll put you on. Uh sure. So let me let me go to the last question so we can uh if we can we could wrap up for the evening. Um so you've been in the US, you know, you leaving the art as a teenager, and um but your work is saturated with it, you know, which you're with your your sort of cultural component, the you know, client, machetes, uh, crabs, and even you title your work in both English and Spanish. It's it's a duality that's there. What does keeping that your your your your world? Because I I don't think we

leave it, right? At the forefront of your work do for you. I have a follow-up question, but I at least want to start there to let it breathe a little bit.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, I I think one it's like, you know, I was like to explore things that I'm familiar with. Again, started with like my experience and stuff, so I think the main part was like, you know, because I haven't been back to my countries like into the US. So I think that informs a lot of like the more imaginative things of like what I remember as a child and to bring it to reality. But I think also just like as I became more active in the art world, realizing how little of like Caribbean stories they're being told and how you know we have such a like like colorful and strong in history and colorful history that it's like not as well known specifically in the contemporary art world. Uh so I think that's where I have taken more that responsibility to like continue to sharing those worlds, even if they're even in the more like surreal way, but uh those like conversations are still you know present in in like I I as I have navigated to our world, you know, a lot of people don't know where my island is, you know. They're like, you know, like in

as in the beginning I was like, oh my god, how come? But then I have I have to learn it's like, you know, the way that we're taught history and then you know how especially like the Caribbean itself, again, we have such like a rich history, but again, it's not especially in America, not something that is like seen as much. So I think that's one thing that has kept like me continually going back to a lot of these stories that even I get to learn a lot about like the history of the Caribbean itself, because I think in the beginning I was like, Dominican Republic, I'm gonna get the Republic, and then it's like, no, we actually have all these things in common, and there's like there's so many threads that we can form now being like in the States and you actually get to meet people from the other islands, but that's the other thing. It's like we have so much in common, but because different islands colonize with these different countries and we speak to different languages, we cannot speak about even like in the case of like you know, the Making Republic in Haiti, it's like we're literally in the same island, but once I speak like Korean French, and then once I speak Spanish, for example. So there's a lot of like miscommunication that happens within the Caribbean, but also how the Caribbean is perceived from the outside that I try for my work to keep inligning those like different things. Some of them, some things are

more specifically the American Republic, but some of them are like more general threads about the Caribbean itself. So that's what I think that's one thing that I always try to keep alive. And I again, like I said, there's our history is so rich that I'm now gonna run out of things to say about my own place. I have done, of course, some

words that more talk about the Caribbean immigrant experience in the United States specifically, for example, but I think that's still embedded into the Caribbean growing up in the in another country in general.

Rob Lee: So the second part to that, thank you. And the the second part to that is what advice would you impart upon or impart to artists about keeping their histories, their cultures, their sort of story at the forefront of their storytelling.

Bony Ramirez: Yeah, I think I think I mean I think there's definitely I think also like the more specific that you get about like your country's history or your history in general, a lot of times the more pushback that you probably will receive, especially in like the commercial gallery world thing, you know, it's something that I think some of us have had to experience when you have to like dim down a little bit to like make it a little more like digestible. Uh and something that they do have like I think I have made things a little more simpler if I want to get the point across, but I think to always keep that in the forefront, I would say. I think the more unique that you are to you and your experience, the more unique the war the work will come out, whether that is uh like physically or like conceptually, but I think always trying to keep that individual individuality uh in your work. I think there's so many amazing

artists, so many great things that it's like, you know, you have like for everything that are the same, but it's like again, the more personal that you make or the more like unique to your own experience, the easier it will be once it's extinguished, but the more the better you also feel about like telling your like your very like uh unique story, and that would add to the canon of like bigger things.

Rob Lee: That's great. I I think that's just why sage advice as the segment is called.

Bony Ramirez: So that's it. Um I think we got it. Um thank you uh so much for just being here today and spending some time with me. This has truly been a treat.

And um there's there's one thing I'm gonna do as we we close out. Usually it's two, but I already did the first card. Um thank you for being on. Uh but the the second part is I'm gonna invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can check you out, follow your word website, all of that good stuff. The floor is yours. Thank you. So yeah, uh, you can follow me at Bonnie Ramirez uh on Instagram mainly. Uh that is with two Z,

so B-O-N-Y-R-A-M-I-R-E-Z, V. Um if you would like to see them work in person. I have some shows that are up right now. Uh the main one being at the Buffalo AKG Museum in Buffalo, New York, is a survey of Latin American artists. Uh, I have a painting there. I have a painting at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts that's currently on if you live in the Boston area. And then uh there we have an amazing show curated by Dr. Margarita La Rosa at the Jamaica

State Center for the Arts is a good survey of Haitian and Dominican artists. Uh this is in Queens. Uh it's a beautiful institutional show that she put together. And I'm showing one of the works that I showed first at the Newark Museum, a really special painting. Uh and the show, she did an amazing job curating that show as well. Um, what else? There is a work at the

permanent collection of the Nord Museum that's currently on view at their uh portrait galleries if you're in New Jersey area. And then what else? And there's some amazing shows coming up too. Um that I can't talk about fully, but that I'm really excited for. Uh keep an eye out for like the September art fair season things and some museum shows in the fall, as well as the Miami art fair situation thing. Um And yeah, so yeah, there's like all those opportunities to see a little Bonnie Ramirez.

Rob Lee: And There you have it, folks. I want to again thank Bonnie Ramirez for coming on to the truth in the sort and sharing a bit of his story with us today. And for Bonnie, I am Rob

Lee, standards, art, culture, and community. And around your neck of the woods, you just have to look for it.