Only okay.

Rob Lee: Welcome to the truth in this art in your source for conversations connecting art, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee. Accept no substitutes. Today I'm excited to be in conversation with my next guest, a Dominican-born painter, designer, and sculptor who creates fantastical worlds of opulence and dangerous foliage. My guest draws from Baroque and Rococo Interiors centering black feminine figures and work that explores survival, celebration, and aspirational desire. Joining me today is Jose Duran. Welcome to the Truth in this art.

Jose Duran: Thank you for having me.

Rob Lee: Thank you for coming on. Um, you know, it's always a treat to be here to connect and um you know, I feel like it's a reunion in some ways and having this conversation, right? Because, you know, I spent a little time with you uh about what two months ago at this point in um New York. So really excited to be to talk to you sort of in this form. And um to start off um this sort of conversation, I have a custom, right?

I'd like to invite guests to introduce themselves in their own words. I find that that simple bio doesn't quite do the subject justice. It's just like, well, I'm really more of this, you know, just like painter, and it's like I'm broader than that. I do so many different things, and you do a lot of different things. So I'm gonna give you the opportunity to introduce yourself in your own words.

Jose Duran: Okay. So my name is my name is Jose Buran. I was born and raised in the Dominican Republic, Mocha. And I came to this country in 1995.

Rob Lee: And uh I was in school, high school at all, and then I later on decided to be a fashion designer, and so I went to school for that. And then I did fashion for many years. I did many, you know, a couple of collaborations with artists, and I did shows in New York and in Paris, also in Singapore, and then I put a stop on my fashion career to to move to Taipei to learn Mandarin and also to do a business to have a business degree in Asians in uh a business, you know.

Uh uh because I wanted to do... wanted to to concentrate in Asia at that time in this 2000 uh 2016, you know, Asia and the Chinese market was the one that used to buy the most luxury items. So I wanted to tap into that industry and to that market. And so I went to to do an MBA in Taipei. But then I when I came back to New York, I really missed creating.

I spent three years there. Uh I wanted to come, you know, I don't want to do fashion anymore. So I didn't, you know, I wanted to learn a different uh approach to for art.

Uh that I never, you know, something I never did before. So at the age of 41, I decided to become an artist. And I started, you know, practicing how to paint and practicing how to sculptures and little by little took a couple months only actually to create to create art.

And then my friend started supporting me. And at that time I was able to ask my friend Kahendo Wiley if I could go to Black Rock in in Senegal. And he allowed me to go to his residency, and there that was my entry to the art world.

And from there on uh, you know, the pandemic came and I was uh uh at that time I I had enough time to to create and practice and started drawing and painting and everything took off. So from there I had a my my show in Dominican Republic, uh then a show here in New York with James Fuentes, and uh a show in uh New Orleans, solo shows actually. Uh my first shows were solo shows, and then from there I had a Hannah Ferrara and So it's been great. It's been a great journey. Short and uh packed with surprises.

Jose Duran: Thank you. That's I mean, we when you said uh like you know, having having that background already sort of in fashion and then taking sort of you know that opportunity to live elsewhere, to be ingratiated to to learn the language elsewhere, and then as you touched on, you know, at the age that I'm currently at, just like I'm gonna try this art thing. I'm gonna go into this.

Rob Lee: I'm like hold up, an overachiever. It's super, you know, it's super scary to start a new career at at you know at this age, at that age at 41, and you know, at any age is but when you you know when you get to that point you really want to be settled.

And uh but I don't want to be settled or wh where I was I wanted to try something to new and I spent to my friends and they were like you you know you weren't on to learn Mandarin at 36. So you can do anything you want actually. And I that's true, you know. So I just did it, you know uh and it's paying off. So I'm I'm glad I did. You know I'm never I was never scared of trying new things and so here I am. We do. Talking about art.

Jose Duran: That's that's great to hear and I think even in that it's it's almost a precursor to that sage advice question like never be afraid to try new things.

Rob Lee: Yeah you know never because you never know where you're gonna end up so

Jose Duran: right now at this very moment the this episode is going to come out it's it's in the queue but you know at this very moment we're in you know the summer of twenty twenty six so what's holding your attention right now is there an idea a material a question that has has your attention that has your curiosity right now at this moment when we're

Rob Lee: we're talking you mean creative wise actually I'm I'm actually working with a new piece uh it's going to be less the museum it's a gay museum uh in in Soho forgot the name but it's gonna be a part of the residency residency program that I am with right now with Glad and I'm creating a textile piece inspired by the 1987 quilt the biggest biggest art piece made and it was shown in Washington with quilt uh you know uh protesting about the a uh the AIDS epidemic during that time and so I'm creating a piece of textile inspired by that uh for my friends that have died of AIDS especially one my name my good friend Shadow and I'm creating a piece uh like a cover to cover her I was not able to be a with her with him uh before you know he passed away and uh and he always wanted me to be there. He told his mom that he was waiting for me to show up and I never did so I'm sh um I'm creating this piece to to cover him when and I I saw him in his casket when he wasn't uh in Dominican Republic in the casket and that was what one of my saddest moments so I'm creating this piece you know to cover him protect him so I'm working on that right now. Thank you for sharing that so it's really really vulnerable and I think when we we have these moments in and channeling like uh you know when I was when I was up there in in New York where where we met in person I was a week removed away from like pretty much the worst day of me and I you know just a really

Jose Duran: tragic loss still kind of you know working through right and it's

Rob Lee: I think sometimes just being there and meeting people and just being around sort of a positive energy.

Jose Duran: Yeah and art being at the the

Rob Lee: forefront I I had some really good conversations. it's like I needed that I needed that sort of fellowship So really you know as I said a little bit before we got started and and then we when we got started like spending some time it's like with with the with you guys and we'll talk about that a little bit later just I don't know it really helped me at that time.

Great. I'm glad to hear that and um I'm glad that you're you're able to make work that is relevant and that is honoring like a c a near friend a near dear friend to you. Yes you know for me it's very important when I create to to feel connected to the to the work because if if I'm not connected you know I get lost creating and for me art and any form fashion or textiles or paintings it's a connection it's a connection with people that are not here any longer or you know fantasies or you know the connection that connect me with my with my mother specifically or with my close friends like chattel you know and so creating this piece is a very very important for me to connect with him again.

That's great. And you know and I'm gonna move into talk about your m your your mother a bit and this sort of next question sort of the thematic of it but yeah I I I relate to with making work that you just feel that you're you're you're connected with. Like uh it's an interesting byproduct in doing in doing this as long as I have.

I'm coming up on a thousand episodes, right? And it's insanity. And you know, with it, there are some people that you just connect with and it's like, hey man, what you doing?

How you living? You know, you just want to check out or you feel like there's a kinship and a any friendship that's potential there, and and I just feel like that's a thing that's gotten lost over the years and again being there around folks that are we're here for the same thing. We're here for maybe different pieces of it, but as a un unification that's there.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, even sometimes you go through through to phases in our lives that sometimes you know we want to be alone, sometimes we want to connect with the people, sometimes we want to change friendships, you know.

Jose Duran: It has happened to me And I understand other people, so yeah.

Rob Lee: You know, we always evolving some way or another. Oh yeah, if we if we stay the same, then it's just you don't go anywhere. It's just like what do we do? Yeah. Yes. And uh, you know, you you you're talking about over the last uh you know, sort of this since since twenty nineteen or twenty twenty, you know, doing this sort of art arc of your your story, because it's it's a long story, right? And you know I've been been podcasting like seventeen years and the friends and all that I've had during this time as you you're touching on, I don't have them anymore. It's just like we went in different directions and being able to to do that, and sometimes you they bet those changes happen and maybe they're for the best and maybe they're gonna you do a relitigation of those friendships.

Jose Duran: Yes, uh some of you know sometimes you connect again. Uh they you know you grow, you they grew uh so you never know. You know, it's always you know, and the more the the older you get the m the the shorter the smaller the circle of friendship stays and is because you start seeing things, understanding and they get busy, they got kids, they have businesses, you know, so you know things change, but it's always good to get connected, you know. The the best friends for me, I don't we don't talk every day, we talk maybe once a year. You know, once or twice a year.

Hello, how are you? But I know they are there for me. I know that I'm there for them whenever they need to. We don't need to talk, you know. So yeah.

Rob Lee: when it's funny you mention that when I go up to New York, you know, I go up there probably two, maybe three times a year, and I have so much energy, one because of the the the sort of pace of things, but I see my friends up there, and I'm like, oh man, this is great. I see you once or twice a year. Yeah, and we have these really cool moments. I was like, I'm gonna go see my art friends in New York, you know. Yeah. I say New York, and I do that, you know, I have extra W to it. That's not even there.

Jose Duran: No, you know, it's it's good because you know we you know, and then when you go to another, you know, to a different state to see art, you have you come with all this energy uh and then you meet people here that we need the energy because we're doing, you know, somewhere or another. So it's it's good to to have people, you know, like you to come around and give us some of that.

Rob Lee: That's absolutely you know, I gotta share it. Um so one of the things um we we were touching on we were gonna talk about your mom a little bit, your mother a little bit.

And your your paintings honor your mother's love for hosting. Um and so, you know, there's soirees, you know, there's a certain like when folks go around like soiree or fet, those those aren't parties, those are a little higher level thing. Uh so what did those soirees teach you about black women, beauty, space? Talk a bit about those experiences.

Jose Duran: Uh you know, my mother we she's used to be a her stylist. Uh she used to be a very good one. I'm one of the first ones in her hometown in Mocha. And and she was a great her style. People love love her energy and love her work. And I used to love her be a yeah, I love to to be there as a child. I grew up in the beauty salon, you know. I the she used to work the salon was in the house. My birthdays were there, you know, all her friends I know all her friends because th this is the where they used to hang out and she also loved to cook. And her cook was the best also. So she used to you know I grew up seeing this and then she moved to the US and the best m moments for me, my life where was when she used to come back from New York to the Dominican Republic.

Because those were the most the happiest moments. She used to come with gifts for us and then she used to have all her friends over and have a party since like from eight AM, 7 a.m. People started coming over to the house to like nine, nine PM non stop. Her friends used hanging out and her cooking, listening to her stories, listening to her favorite salsa music. My father used to hate it because he was just non stop uh ladies in the house, you know, and they used to come and go.

Family members, friends, and it was you know festive all day long, you know, uh so you know I I grew up seeing this and watching this and you know everyone in the happy mood because my mother was there. You know, she's back from the US and she comes, you know, with her new styles of clothing, her new uh duvet for the bed. In the the bathroom was her meeting point. Whenever the one I told her a secret, it was like they used to go to the bathroom and close the door. Or it was like only for ladies and because I was a child, I was able to go in, you know, and listen to co this conversation.

So I was always I love to be there because it was always something. But you know sometimes those stories used to harm me because I used to like listen to them and get depressed. You know, her stories sometimes other friends' stories and but I just love to be around my mother. I love to be around her friends, her I was making jokes. My mother loved to make jokes and every lot of happy so you know it was all day long party and the music was loud people in the neighborhood were happy because you used to cook and give them a pet of food, you know if you walk around the street and you she sees you hungry, she invited to the house to eat and so yeah this is my mother, you know

Rob Lee: mom sounds like a great great person.

Jose Duran: Yes. Super amazing energy, amazing person amazing heart. Yeah.

Rob Lee: What what's the meal that you remember from that time 'cause you know you talk about food like I'm not hip. I'm not hip, so you gotta put me

Jose Duran: on well her best dishes were Sancocho. It was like that soup with like all the meat included. But my favorite was uh uh uh meatballs with the spaghetti and motto the the uh a motor is like rice and beans cooked together yeah and with uh spaghetti not like Italians cook it you know yeah like Dominican cook because it's a difference That was that was my favorite dish but I used to love anything she cooked. So it was it was a it was a joy for all of us when she used to come from New York to make to go back home.

Rob Lee: That's great. And um it it's something about coming back with sort of new stories. What are your travels telling us tell us share the

Jose Duran: stories yes all her all her all her stories from her friends here in New York she used to tell us all those stories there and then it was like sharing you know because living in New York you meet people from all other countries, you know different countries, different states in you know in Dominican Republic not from Mocha but like Santo Domingo, Santiago so she used to bring back all these jokes from different you know from all these people that she used to meet back to us to Mocha. So it was like wanted to listen to all of that. And it was just a happy moment all the time. That's great. Yeah.

Rob Lee: So I move into this this next question 'cause I like to like sort of build off of it. It's just like we're getting sort of some of the foundation, some of the the the influences, some of the drive that's there. So you you're working across like multiple mediums, what have you and driven by ideas. So what was the first medium that you worked in you touched on fashion obviously the first medium that you you worked in and how did the others like come along was it purely like a natural progression did you see like limits in in working and I have like a sort of um the other part to it like was there like an idea for instance that you know could only be served by making furniture for sake of argument that a painting just wouldn't do that wouldn't it wouldn't work as a painting.

Jose Duran: I you know I actually talk about furniture my first pieces were uh furniture uh furniture drapes with textiles chairs and tables so for me it was like self dressing the body I was dressing you know pieces of

Rob Lee: furniture yeah you know and then I used to, you know, c because you have it's like tie you know, used to dress in the textile and also like found garments or used to go to the clip shops to buy specific places of colors that needed so I used to dress them and then paint them.

Jose Duran: So that's how it started. Uh then also going to during the pandemic, I used you know, inspired by the on my trip to Africa, my first trip to Senegal in the car and then uh, you know, travel around the country uh to see how textiles were used not for the body but also to have uh shelter. Yeah. Because they used to build. you know Like have a little shock with fabric around it and you know, with four sticks and have uh, you know, a a room made of textile. So I used people used to live in the street with this or have a shop uh with this beautiful textile, different colors and different textures. So from there inspired me to come to the you know, when I came back to go to the park. Yeah. And I remember that during this time people were sleeping the streets, you know, in the parks and building also the same ideas as in Africa. They were

having it here. So I used to go to the parks and build this little shocks, the little houses and then photograph them and then paint them, then leave them sometimes in the park and then go back the next day to see how it reacts with the environment. And also if somebody s slept there, you know. Or s was spend the night in that piece of uh, you know, little house that I made. So from

there I started painting this uh sculptures that I used to do um and then that took me to, you know, the to bigger pieces of painting that was included my mother or women that look like her into this opulent spaces. Wow.

Rob Lee: It makes sense. Like, you know, having the experience in the background with sort of textiles and kind of reshaping and kind of reimagining how you see that as you're you're tuck touching on instead of having it on the body, having it on sort of the structure that the furniture is so on. and I relate to that in this way where you know, this isn't as new to me like doing interviews, I haven't been doing these as long as I have. I'd already

been a podcaster for about ten years before going into these interviews. I was just like closed circuit talking to the homies, you know. And even going in before that, like when I was younger, I was always telling people about the action movies I would watch. My dad would always get movies on Fridays for like blockbuster video, really dating myself and it's just like, yo, we're gonna watch these like action movies and that's you know what I would share, coming back and telling the stories. Right. And like, yo, I watched this, I bet you didn't see this one yet, and I would just sit there and lie about it 'cause I'd never finished the movie sometimes.

Jose Duran: But I would hold people's attention with the sort of storytelling aspect and still pieces of that right now at forty one that I was probably at ten or eleven, you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, you

know, it's creating creating stories and making you know, that's about it's also creating art, you know, sometimes the story that you know you you uh you just it's like a fantasy, you know. Creating uh making making stories up, you know, that's also part of uh of creating.

Rob Lee: Yeah, I think curiosity, imagination and then kind of living in the in the fantasy land.

Jose Duran: I you're you're personally seems like you enjoy the fantasy. Yes, I love, you know, because it's you know, I when I used to do fashion I used to create wars that never existed. I used to you know, even with my paintings, you know, I'm placing black women in spaces that were not created for them. So this is also, you know, placing us in comfortable spaces where, you know, it's uh also kind of uh storytelling, inside fantasy in a way. And yeah.

Rob Lee: And it it's it's making for us like, well, I don't see this as much as I would like to, so I'm just gonna make it, you know.

Jose Duran: Yeah. Yeah, you just create it, you know, okay, m make it up, you know, uh the no everything doesn't have to be true. Uh and uh if it's true, it's true, but then y you know, you want to make it beautiful, you know, you always want to change the narrative. Yeah of you know, uh I want to change my narrative, you know, I don't want to always be, you know um in the sad I don't want to see my people in the sad situation. So I changed things up so I see us in a better place. Yeah.

Rob Lee: Um I I have a buddy before I move to this next question, I have a buddy who you know, I was talking to him initially and I'd asked him, I was like, what is something that you just don't show in your art? And he was just like, I don't paint people, you know, specifically our people in a spot that is like demoralizing or degrading. He's like, I don't show us as guy, he's like, I show us his kings, I show us queens. He's like these this is the this is the um reality I'm what I want. And he's like, This is what I'm gonna make.

Jose Duran: Yes, you know, we don't you know it's okay if you want to do that, but I prefer not to I wanna l list me up and I also want to live my people, my friends, my my family up when they see my work, you know? Yeah. Uh because it's also I'm telling you the good times with my mother, but they were sad times. Yeah. But th I don't want to see them again, you know, I don't want to think about those. I don't want to people to see those, so I just want to see the happy moment.

Rob Lee: Yeah. So going into your your artist statement, I read this and I and I it it it really stuck out, you know, the the quote. Maybe I'm paraphrasing. But um when I when I paint or create sculptures, I feel like I'm having a conversation with the medium used at the moment. The textile tells me where it wants to be placed. Can you tell us more about like sort of being this intermediary, being this this was set of stone if you will and um how did you learn to listen or be in conversation with the media?

Jose Duran: Well, you know, I I should tell you my my first artist practice was fashion. And my favorite part the thing that what uh my best was that I'm in the is draping. Draping textiles. So when you drape, you you know, t every textile is different. Uh you know, even if it's the same type it's textiles but have a different color, you know, it changes the how the textile feels and how the textile moves. So uh there

are moments when you want the text out to go a different way away, but then it doesn't want so you have to listen to the textile to where it wants to go and where it wants to be. And then for me you know, I I I learned how to to communicate and I just let it be, you know. Uh and then this is how I used to make this dresses, very beautiful dresses. And and then I brought this to the to my art art practice, painting and you know, every paint, every every even the room can change how the paint feels in the with uh with a brush or with a pattern knife. So it's kind

of listening to you know feeling the the medium and then let lit you know, then how you feel then it comes out the the it comes the the results of it after that conversation after this uh this uh I you know I think I think it's yeah, conversation that I haven't re with that medium because I I don't just want it to be how I want. You know, I want them I want them to to have that movement also by themselves, yeah, you know. So many people say that some of my paintings they feel alive, you know, it's like they move. And I think that's that's you know, because I I think let it you know, let the brush go the way it wants to go, my hands and also the the how the paint feels and it's conversation with the brush with the paint because the canvas and with the environment and with myself. So we b all of us together we create that peace. Yeah. Because you

know, there are times that I want to recreate a piece and it's impossible. It's because I was not, you know, the way I felt at that time, the you know, the environment at that time it's not the same as now. And it it would never I can never recreate it. Even me whi

you know, having the piece right in my face, I can never do the same or or try or look similar to it. It's super interesting. So it's it's you know, when at that moment this is what it comes out and then the next it comes out something else. Because, you know, how I felt at that time, how the brush was, how it how the environment, how the colors around me wear are not the same as now. So it would

won't be the same. That makes sense. It's yeah, that that's kind of why I say conversation because it's like a f a full a full friendship of of of different uh different uh different things around me that can create a piece of of of art.

Rob Lee: Yeah, that that definitely makes sense. I again I I try my my best to kind of get into the head of the subject or the the head of the person I'm talking to and I relate to that in this way where there have been times where I'll do an interview and I'm like, we got it and then it we we didn't finish it or I couldn't use it or whatever the case is and then I got the same questions. I come back to it later and it's like the first one was better. It's like ah we we lost it. We we don't have it because that setting, that circumstance, that energy that led into that conversation and perhaps like and I do this when I'm writing questions, right? I try to write questions that are I think that that kind of fresh that feel like they hit in a certain way and they they work at that moment but when I go back with maybe time removed and I'm like hmm let me say that differently I mean let me ask that question differently.

Jose Duran: It doesn't hit the same yeah it's not you know see at that moment is you know it's never can never never re recreate it. It's impossible.

Rob Lee: This is why I have the recorder going at all times. I mean you understand something like no I got you I got you don't think about that.

Jose Duran: Don't take it over Yeah within context.

Rob Lee: I'm not one of those like yeah I got a hot mic on

Jose Duran: you um so I you know and I and I'm wanna and I'm gonna go back into this I'm gonna move sort of the order of this one question. You've also described yourself as a translator in some ways like you know so obviously you you speak at least two languages. I'm thinking I know a third is you you mentioned the time and with Taipei or what have you one how many languages do you speak and two talk about sort of how having that what is it like a but polyglot, having that sort of like background maybe helps with how you approach your work I you know I Spanish I'm English for sure. I lived in

I lived in France in Paris for a year and I always had a partner that was French that is French and I used to you know growing up during my fashion years I spent a lot of time in Paris I kinda under you know know a little bit of French and the Chinese yes I had to uh know how to read write and speak Mandarin and it's difficult to keep it but I still can speak and uh and read a little bit. But no reading or writing is gone. But listening and speaking is still there and but traveling and living in different places can it does really uh help in your creative process 'cause it makes it more international. It don't make it more all the knowledge that you get you know from all these places and meeting all these people and talking to these people from different backgrounds you know it can just make you work better and stronger and you know the you know not just you know having artist friends but lawyers and bankers and all these people you know with a different point of view of life it can you know it grow you know all you can do is grow yeah with it with knowledge and also with you know with give you more power so I living and traveling the around in Europe, Asia and it just makes makes you know your your your your work and your language, your ability to navigate with other people much better. Yes.

Rob Lee: And imagine it it sharpens things it at times can challenge things and also I think you shortchanged yourself 'cause that new New York is own language right there. Being there it's just like that's another language right there.

Jose Duran: Yeah. And then believe going from New York to go to going to those places, you know, you can appreciate things more. You can not you know it's easier because in here you know these people m everywhere you know everyone in the world lives in New York from every culture. So it it's it's much easier to while since l living in New York going over there to to communicate and to understand them. Yeah. You know to yes that's most to understand people from other cultures and other countries. Yeah. Yes.

Rob Lee: So the these next two questions kinda go into the the approach a bit um so research heavy is is a piece that that that comes up that I see like you're you're a big you're big in the researching, you're big into the d the documenting, you know your work in the process as you go along. So that's what the sort of subject matter of these next two questions are so going back to textiles a bit after like researching how textiles move through the save slave trade, do you approach maybe textiles and fabric differently? Do does it carry more weight when you're like, oh yeah, I did this research. I really want to focus in this area and then in a specific way or does it how how where does it matter I guess?

Jose Duran: Well you know, and when I was in uh my thesis project was consumer behavior on sustainable fashion. And that to totally the studies that I did and the the findings that I made that I found, you know, during this process of investigating the fashion industry and the textile industry to have the much they damaged the environment it kind of made me more you know respect the textile and also wanting to get away from it. And but you know then I wanted to go deeper of where, you know, the connection, the textile with the slaves and how you know that that you know how that came about and then I started in uh investigating about the Indian textiles from the seventeen, eighteen hundred where textiles used as to exchange slaves. Made you know this textiles were made in Europe. The cotton was from the US textile were made in Europe and the printing also and then sent to Africa to as a commodity to you know kind of to buy slaves. This Indian textile became super popular because it was cotton and fresh, especially in Africa. And all these ladies wanted to wear Indian textiles and from there on that's when I started you know more getting deep into using the textiles. But then I wanted to get away from it because I was getting you know back into the wasting and and you know this this product that was har it's still harming the environment you know this is this fashion industry is especially with the mass production is just not stop creating and people are disposing things that they wear for you know one day or maybe an hour and they put it on for you know a couple of pictures and then they throw it out and it's just super harmful. Because these textiles are made with chemicals, harmful chemicals and they go back into the nine so nobody wants them. Don't even you know this

it's so cheaply made that you use you cannot wear it twice after one wash. So you know this you know the only way I think to stop using it is not using it. You know so this is one of the reasons why I wanted to get out of the fashion industry and then when I started with textiles and I wanted then I I was like I'm I'm doing the same thing, you know, working with textiles and using them and then I don't use it no more then I have to throw it out. So I just wanted to get away from that um all together from the textile industry.

Rob Lee: Even as an artist makes sense like you I think at times we hear you know for simplicity's sake, oh fash fashion bad or sort of it's just like no these are the impacts. This is you know has the historical component it has the current component of this is not good in in terms of landfills and things of that nature and that's just missed but I think having that consideration and and and leaning on your background in that industry and then working with it in sort of the the the fashion industry and working with it and sort of you know making art like no I see this fully now and wholly and I understand historical context this doesn't fit for me.

Jose Duran: Yeah yeah so that's that's one of the reasons that I got away from uh you know creating this this hubs, this little houses and raping shares because a lot of reasons you know I it's like just buying textiles and then throwing them out you know or trying to save them giving them back. So it was just the same thing, the same uh you know creating with you know with textiles that I wanted to get away

Rob Lee: from so going into the the document the documenting piece. So you you work across like multiple pieces at once I I read like I like this being able like I'm gonna work on this go here for a second I'm gonna come back to it. Not quite done this is in progress. So talk talk about that process of like like that layering process of documenting sort of as you're going and working in multiple areas and you know what's that process as you're sort of finishing a piece like one at a time like does working maybe across multiple ones kind of help that overall like it keeps that that novelty and that sort of interest because I think at times it's like I got this project, I'm working on this, I'm in it. You know, and I am beat but being able to work in something sort of new. Talk about that a bit.

Jose Duran: No, I I I get bored easily. So I I can't you know I I can't just do the same thing over and over again. Uh oh use the same colors or use you know the same motifs or the same you know style of painting. I have to move around, you know, and maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's bad, but I just for me I can't you be doing you know so I I like to move around and I'm working out with textiles but I just finished uh a painting so now I'm gonna start painting again and so I have to do both and to sh to make them more interesting because then I I stopped working in the textile then more ideas will come then I add them to the textiles and then you know vice versa with the painting too. So I just like to do both. Yeah to move around in different different subjects, different different techniques because I don't want to get bored.

Rob Lee: No nobody likes to be makes you it makes I think it makes it more interesting you know for uh to work to see while you work in another then you have other ideas will come for that to the other one.

Rob Lee: Well g you're talking to someone if I could split my voice and I could do two podcasts at once it'd be great. There's a whole other podcast happening right now. Every time I won't go on mute, I'm talking to someone else and we're

Jose Duran: recording a whole several pod Because I don't like to be bored either. Yeah it's like okay I need a break.

Rob Lee: I hope I'm keeping you stimulated over there by the way.

Jose Duran: Ah yes I'm fine um so here's the last two real questions I got um so you know w if if there's a specific piece or specific like sort of series or or body of work that you have in mind when I asked this question like what do you want people to take from your work after experiencing it after seeing it in a gallery in one of those solo shows or just seeing it just up close and then in person. What do you want people to to take from it?

Jose Duran: I want them to you know to learn to learn you know to learn what what I my investigation was and usually working with plants and you know and and with plants or textiles you know if we every series has a different meaning. The last one was you

know love attraction plans that were used by enslaved women to to attract lovers for the white you know the the um you know this white women w wanted their to keep their husbands you know so they learn you know they they were used to hire enslaved women in the Caribbean that to for these practices and I travel to Cartagena and I you know tested this love attraction plant so I want them to know all this information you know when they see my work when they read the bio or when they read uh the statement uh the gallery I want them to you know when they see it then they can be able to travel to the painting because there's so much information in it. You know some information that I can read and also information on the on the work. So I want them to feel like they are learning something. You know I'm teaching them something and I want them to feel connected to the piece and the environment in it. You know, around what I

created. So that's you know it's more of a um sharing information. And I l I love to go to the galleries and talk to people and I I love I love to go and uh stay there for hours and uh have it asking them questions, you know, which one is your favorite and why and then they're asking me so it's I I love to do that so to have a connection with with the viewers and also learning and I can grow more so yes.

Rob Lee: Yeah I'm I'm spending I'm spending time on your website right now by the way and I'm just like alright like what h here's all of the shows I'm like alright alright I see you I see

Jose Duran: you I think more I have to I have to update it because there's more things there and I have it's not there yet.

Rob Lee: Like I said earlier overachievers just like I have so many things I just need to update and add here. Um but yeah it's it definitely you know having that that conversation that dialogue is definitely a lot of depth in there and that that sort of education piece and like hey you know I want to inform and here's the research that I've done and going back to one of the things we talked about earlier being a translator in many ways of this is what I've what I've researched, what I've learned, what I've created artistically and now I'm able to back that up in conversation as you're in you know if you were consuming or you're experiencing this work in person. person.

Jose Duran: It's like writing a book, you know, for me it's it's it's it's like writing a book but using art to you know instead of a a book, you know, using the painting, using the textile, using you know it's it's the same format. But you know, I I use the all this time to create a work. And it's always different, you know, it's I again I like I get bored easily so I I like to research different things and one research take me to another and so every time you go to my one of my shows it's always a new information, you know uh to be learned. Oh you know, always related to the others but new information. So that's and that's what I love about curating art.

Rob Lee: So down the rabbit hole really and let's let's let's go let's have some depth here guys.

Jose Duran: Yes. You know it's not just a beautiful painting is more information in it. You know it's more to know.

Rob Lee: I I like that. I like that there's a layering that's there and it's the visual will arrest your eyes and invite you to go deeper.

Jose Duran: Yes, you know, because I I want to do the same. I'm very I'm more visual than anything else. So for me seeing something, you know, is learning. And I love to learn and yes.

Rob Lee: So this is the last real question I got for you and I just want to like kind of add my my two cents in it because when you talk about learning I feel like you know when I went up to Future Fair, you know, that was a Wednesday and went to Nada the next day you know I was hanging out with who I feel like was probably the best artist and curators floating around it was it was you Patricia it was uh those it was just great folks and I was able to hitch my wagon to you guys and hanging out. You know and I was like this is this is great and um so and your work has been been shaped and you because you mentioned Kende Wally earlier your your work and your sort of art trajectory has been shaped by sort of these relationships and these collaborations and these partnerships. So could you talk a bit about you know what turns a a conversation like you and I had right to perhaps a you know collaborative thing to perhaps a friendship and a friendship into an ongoing friendship. Talk about that trajectory of maybe meeting someone and you know in the sort of art space and seeing where it can go.

Jose Duran: You know it's you know I I got my personality for my mother People used to love her. So I think I you know I got a little thing from her and you know I'm I have a lot of friends and before I was in a you know even um before the well I was in in fashion school that's when I met Derek Adams Mikalene Thomas and Candy and my first fashion show was a collaboration with them you know at a at Rush Arts in the gallery and yeah and you know they it was a art artist view and then I had Mickey and you know take a picture of one Geshi Mutu with one of my pieces Kehinde with some models you know uh Shanik Smith with my artist friends of her uh David Cruz wore the pieces and took pictures so I had these pictures in the in the gallery with you know with many keys. I was you know maybe like twenty five you know twenty-four and they were like starting their careers as artists and from there on I you know then I that's my first show I became then I became a designer after that so imagine starting your show with this superstars are they who they are now and then in then I went to to Dominican Republic to introduce my my art so then I met all these amazing artists there too. So I'm and I'm always around with artists, painters, you know but I never consider myself one and uh I was always afraid to to do it because I you know having them have friends is like you have to be good you know so I never tried it because of that so it took me years and years to to realize you know that I want a painter too you know and anybody can be a painter you know but I I didn't know that and I thought you had to go to school you know you have to go to you know as a child you have to be you know in this environment and I was not you know so but I I had it in me, you know and then I realized that later on and I you know I'm glad I did but it's uh you know it's very important you know for me it was you know easy to to to surround myself with people like me you know that artists also and you know maybe they like my personality you know maybe they you know I but I like them. So it's it was it was uh it's very important to to be around and to learn and conversate, you know and and because when I started you know my fashion and you know the way I used to do fashion it was always uh the w the same way Michaeline I can hand it get inspired to create art. So I I learned that

from them. So then I'm deserted for my you know for my art. So yes I'm you know it's it's been um and then I moved you know l living in Paris then I met these amazing photographers, fashion stylists and designers so you know I've always been around the creative people. And maybe you know I'm also a creative. So we attract each other. Yeah.

Rob Lee: Bird birds of a feather I think is the the saying right Yeah.

Jose Duran: you know I just I think it's it's something about being around it. It just you know and you touched on it earlier. It's just like I have these sort of folks that are around me who are you know now like superstars, legends and so on and it's just like all right, I gotta make sure my stuff is on point. I gotta make sure stuff is good. And you're just feeling like you know I think when you're around it it's it's something about this sort of transitory property that if people are making stuff it's like what are you making? What am I making? How how are we making it and you know you'll get that sort of feedback you get that sort of just that that version of community is important I suppose.

Jose Duran: That's the thing. Yes it's very important to to have a community to you know to share ideas, you know, to tell them your idea and they share their ideas to you too and you know bouncing the you know and getting inspired with with each other and sometimes just by being around you know you get inspired or listening to them talking you know I learned so much just by listening to Panda you know and I learned so much with how Mikel does business, you know, how she creates I I used to be work I used to work with her too. I used to be one of her assistants in her beginnings. So being you know I uh being around these people has helped me so much to to grow and to create and become a better person.

Rob Lee: I And I think that's sort of the the the end of the real questions. I got three rapid fire questions and one stage advice. That's the only two matters of business we got left. So let's run the rapid fire questions. Uh so with these you don't want to overthink these are like what's the first thing that comes to mind. And you know I you know I gotta keep it on your toes.

Jose Duran: Well, if I don't know, I'm going to tell you, you know, Something brother.

Rob Lee: I like the honesty.

Jose Duran: Like Because sometimes I don't remember names. No no no and things.

Rob Lee: You'll be perfect for you. You'll be you'll you'll have a perfect answer. Alright All right. so we're gonna go back in time on this first one. So you yeah at your current age your current experience and all of that you've been invited to one of your mother's foreys you encounter ten year old you Yes. what do you say to him to

Jose Duran: yeah to to stay with you know stay with your mother, you know stay uh and hug her I never told my mother I loved her so I would tell her that yeah I think I would tell her that and play with her play with her hair. yeah I never make her mad don't make her upset with me. So that's that's what I would tell her the um

Rob Lee: yeah the the the traveling through through time sort of thing it's it's not important about that you just kinda think about like oh I want to enjoy this I want to enjoy I'm gonna enjoy the opulence. I'm gonna enjoy the the conversations. I wanna I want to

hear all of the tea as it were and I need to make sure I get a good meal and then also I want to say the things that I really wish I had a chance to say again. Yes. Thank you for that. Um let me move to the next one okay uh so when you're working right let's say you're working on something you're you're going from uh piece to piece your documenting do you have music or do you have silence and if it is music you need to tell me the song you need to tell me what

Jose Duran: song you're playing silence silence silence person. Yes There's no music no no nothing. Just just me and and that the I said before that conversation I'm having with the medium. So it's a very intimate thing. Yeah. Sometimes I like people around but not really talking there. Okay.

Rob Lee: That makes sense. It's like I don't want to have noise breaking up the conversation. I want to be able to hear the medium as much as possible.

Jose Duran: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I spend hours like this, You know, hours and hours. Not not you know, take little breaks, but not sound. Okay.

Rob Lee: So I gotta ask you this. You touched on something earlier and I don't want to leave it hanging. You know, we were talking about food earlier a little bit. So I never had Dominican spaghetti, so just what separates it. What makes it what it is?

Jose Duran: This is cooked, you know, it's not just uh like pasta you put it in and you take it out in a couple minutes. This is like cooking meat. This is how they treat

it. All the sauce, you know, all these soft and it's red or sometimes white. When they put all this cheese, they put carnation milk because And it's cooked maybe f for a long time. It's like boiling, you know.

I mean we eat it's super soft. So it's not like pasta, it's like eating I don't know, it's super w so if you come back to New York and you come back, or maybe where you add this to Dominican restaurant, you ask for espaghetti, pa epageti. I mean, we don't call it spaghetti, we call it epagueti. And you you taste it, it's a totally different experience your mouth. Yeah. So it's super soft and it goes great in life. Okay. It's super crazy because

we eat it, we don't eat it like you will never eat Dominican spaghetti by itself. It's like you eat it with rice or with platinus, it's like part of uh a dish of a side dish, not the whole meal. Okay. You know, like we went to tiny restaurant, you eat a plate of pasta. Dominican would eat like rice meat on the side of a spaghetti.

Rob Lee: a packet Look, Matt, you're gonna have

Jose Duran: me You're to have me represent affiliations.

Rob Lee: I would I see if you look at me, if you look at me closely, right, you'll probably notice the beard looks different, right? from when we saw each other previously. And a few of my friends were like, Where you where did you go, bro? Did you come back from the island? I was like, No, I just died it. So I go there and have this Dominican spaghetti I'm gonna be representing affiliations.

Jose Duran: Yes. spaghetti. Like when you went to one of those restaurants, you you know, you might see it around and little and you just tell them you want to spaghetti and then you put you eat it with rice and that uh meat with sauce. Oh my god, yeah. Uh sometimes people eat it like a spaghetti with rice and that's a meal. So it's like eating two carbs.

Rob Lee: See, look, this this is why this is what's gonna make me fat again. It's gonna bring me back. It's just like here's these double carbs enjoy.

Jose Duran: Yes, and spaghetti rice and maybe avocado. Oh my god, that's the best.

Rob Lee: Look, I you know, whenever I go to a place that has any like plantain, so I'm just like, look, I'm gonna need those. I need those platinums, like I need those like statting.

Jose Duran: Like, you know, I used to work in a Spanish call center back in the day and I just hung out with the Cubans and the Dominicans, and it was just like, yo, who's who's making plates? It's like we got the true letter today. I'm like fantastic. Let me get that.

Jose Duran: When you come back, you have to find the Dominican plates.

Rob Lee: I'm gonna hit you up. I'm like, I need some suggestions.

Jose Duran: Yes, I mean maybe we go to watching the heights or here in the Bronx.

Rob Lee: Okay. That's the only borough I haven't been to, by the way. Um Yeah, that's the only one. Oh, no. Yeah, it's I'm gonna fix it. I'm gonna remedy that. I and I can't be

handy up there and I go to the Bronx. So that's kinda after about the fire portion and I'm gonna reset and go back into this last piece of business if you're if you're ready, and it's um you know, the sage advice. And this is sort of like just that added depth right there, and I think it really is um thing to kinda tie everything together. One of the reasons I started this project, uh the truth in his art was to counter the narrative on culture in the background of my city, Baltimore, right? Um then the idea got

bigger. It's still rooted in having a more holistic narrative on how people like me, and people that look like me are are viewed and considered. I think art is an entry point for those types of conversations. Um, you know, Baltimore's violent, yet it's making all of this these these really talented people are coming out of there. So you know, is that an interest for you of sort of reshaping these narratives and why is it important, especially covering like sort of black women and how they're presented and sort of those stories. Why is that that fantasy element we were talking about earlier? Why is that important to you?

Jose Duran: It's very important. You know, I grew up in Dominicans watching Mexican telenovelas. And you know, in in Latin America, you know, it's it's if you you know, think here is harsh, imagine in Mexico or other places. Not just the black people

for for natives, you know. Uh so watching this movies and Telenovelas, I never saw me or my people in it. You know, if we did we were the poorest of the poorest in this places and they always had this beautiful white woman, white Mexican men, guys, you know, in this beautiful spaces. They were always rich, you know, the wider the riches you were, you know. So we grew up seeing this and it's still till now, you know, it's in Dominican if you are uh white man with blue eyes, you are handsome, you know, you are rich, you're beautiful. I'm not just there. In Asia is the same. Yeah. You know, and I

want, you know, t the reason I create this paintings and have a because I want to see myself in a different place. I want to see my mother, my my aunt. And I want also want

other people to see it. But you know, maybe it's not I'm not I don't belong here, but I'm here. I know you have to look at me and I wanna change that narrative. You know, I want to tell you something that but you know, even me that I was born and raised in the Dominican Republic, you know, I'm I'm black, and I go to Africa and I see uh uh a black uh driver in his beautiful car. He's a black guy, and I think he's a driver, you know. Because my brain is already

is it's it's it's like that it was like it's they put a st switch in like uh a ship in it. And it why is you know, seeing uh uh a black lady cleaning her house, you know. She's not the maid. She's that's a you know,

that's her house, you know. So it's but I have you know, and this is me that I come from a black island, so imagine other people, other, you know, Asians, imagine uh white people from uh from any places in Europe, how you know, even here in America, how they see us, you know. So if I see me like that how other people see me, you know. So the reason why I do this is to change that narrative. Because this is you know, we need art and art is one of the ways. Art, T V, uh, entertainment, because Hollywood and the media has made us look a third way. You know, has the thieves,

has the poor, has the smelly, the smelly, you know, the the the one that's always in problems. You know, uh little by little it's changing, but still it's gonna take many, many years for that narrative to change. To change us, not just other people, but to ch even to change us, how we see each other. Yeah. How we see ourselves. So the reason why I I create this beautiful world of interiors is to change that.

Rob Lee: That's wonderful. And that's um it's a worthy sort of goals worthy mission worthy preoccupation and calling. Um Because, you know, I think it starts internally as you you're touching on. Like if you're seeing it a certain way and you know, art, media, all of that stuff is an export of it. So if we're playing into it and we're not seeing ourselves in that sort of heightened way, in that sort of fantasy way of like, man, I'm a king. Uh-huh, you know, I don't know what else you want, but I'm a king. And it's like, well, we're not buying that. That's fine. That speaks more on you know what it is, but this is what I'm making. Yeah.

Jose Duran: This is how I want to see myself, and I don't care how you see it, but is because uh the at the end of the day we want to change how we see each other, you know. First, and then the other then other people.

Rob Lee: Yeah. That's it. We got it. Yeah. We got it. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. We we made it happen.

Jose Duran: And um You made me cry.

Rob Lee: That was not the goal. I am that's not the goal.

Jose Duran: Um You made me cry.

Rob Lee: But I think when we're having like sort of honest conversations, it it happens, right? And um I thank you for your time, your your vulnerability as conversation and um just being a part of it. I think like I take all of these interviews very serious and I try not to make them the typical because you already gave me the the four the four corners like beforehand, and like is this a real conversation where we talk to New York or is this sort of the paint by numbers. Tell me about your work. What are the colors you

use? It's like is it a real conversation? Um but there's there's two things I want to do if you'd like before we close out here. Um one, I wanna thank you for for again coming on and spending some time. I really appreciate it and

this is definitely a step up and and two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners your website or anything you want to share, just uh in final thoughts as we close out here.

Jose Duran: Uh so my Instagram is Jose Duran, J O S E D U R A N Studio. Jose Duran Studio. My website's Jose Duran dot studio. And uh Yeah. I don't know. You know,

just l live live great and do whatever you want, you know, before before you have no more energy. So that's that's that's what I encourage people all the time. To you know, to be themselves and also to if they don't like what they are, change it. You know, start new things. That's crazy. That's it.

Rob Lee: There you have it, folks. I want to again thank Jose Duran for coming on to the truth and its art and spending a bit of time with me. And for Jose, I am Rob Lee, saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for

Jose Duran: it.