Embrace Pleasure and Empowerment: Jennifer Eden's Sensual Edutainment
00;00;10;10 - 00;00;25;10
Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Fleet. And today I'm in conversation with a certified sex educator, performer, poet. They go by mix. Eden. If you're nasty. Please welcome Jennifer Eden. Welcome to the podcast.
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Jennifer Eden
That is one of the best intros I have ever made. Yes, box that up and send it with me everywhere I go.
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Rob Lee
That's great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on and and being a part of this. The series of interviews, I'd say it's an ongoing conversation. So big shout out to you for being a part of it.
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Jennifer Eden
Shout out to you for doing this. For keeping the convo going, for getting like, multiple perspectives. I'm all about that.
00;00;49;23 - 00;01;09;08
Rob Lee
Well, thank you. Thank you. So as we as we start off, I think, you know, people love talking about themselves. So as we start off, can we get the the, you know, like the the story, however long you want to put it, but what is the Jennifer Eden story and what was your first experience with that? The art of storytelling.
00;01;09;08 - 00;01;14;28
Rob Lee
Because that's another thing. I didn't even include storytelling as well in this Multihyphenate introduction.
00;01;16;02 - 00;01;44;13
Jennifer Eden
So I am a person who does not love talking about myself, but it is also a part of the grind. So here we go. I will say that I was introduced to my own story around the age of nine years old. That was when I first remember being sexualized in my adolescent body. That's the first time I remember like receiving sexual attention or somebody really looking at me or watching me in that way.
00;01;44;13 - 00;02;06;09
Jennifer Eden
And again, I was nine years old. I just happened to have a body that may have like bought me a couple of years in the hired direction. And so as I am getting older, I'm realizing that the whole like you look or acting mature for your age thing is bullshit and people knew that we were under age when we were being flirted with.
00;02;06;09 - 00;02;29;22
Jennifer Eden
And I say we because it is a common experience of many fans. But I remember learning very, very early on to equip myself with information. And so I read a lot of books. I did not come from a household where questions were were welcomed with open arms. But I was lucky that oftentimes the answer that I got to my questions was, go look it up.
00;02;30;04 - 00;02;51;15
Jennifer Eden
And if I could not look it up in the set of encyclopedias that we had in the basement, then my parents were more than willing to go ahead and give me a book, shout out to my mom for getting the little like so well for a dollar or whatever books that you remember, the things that came in the mail where you could just check off and you get the books or the CDs or the magazines.
00;02;51;15 - 00;03;22;05
Jennifer Eden
We were a book house and so I ended up just getting a lot of books about puberty and body development and attraction and gender and all of these things. And so as I was getting attention from boys and men, I also got attention from girls more so wondering how I handled this attention that I was getting, and also girls wondering how to get the attention that I was getting.
00;03;22;11 - 00;03;51;15
Jennifer Eden
That's not necessarily my ministry, but I'm all about helping people feel secure in who they are and how they desire to engage in pleasure. And so I think that, like I said, from a very early age, I've been very strong in who I am and what my narrative is. And I started writing poetry really early on. I didn't start sharing it until I was 16 years old.
00;03;51;20 - 00;04;19;09
Jennifer Eden
At one Wednesdays, shout out to warm Wednesdays and institution. If you were there for the era, you were there and if not, you just have to hear about it in the archives. But like I really came into my own as a storyteller at Warm Wednesdays and in like Baltimore's open mic scene, because I was able to take these experiences and these thoughts and these things that I was trying to figure out about myself and give language to and put it into poetry.
00;04;19;09 - 00;04;43;26
Jennifer Eden
And luckily I was decent at it. So things about me like my theories and my queerness and my experiences trying to figure out the world around me and how I made sense in it were actually affirmed through my poetry in a way that they weren't at school or at home or at church or at any of these other places where I was told to be myself, but not really be myself.
00;04;44;06 - 00;05;19;10
Jennifer Eden
Poetry was the place where I've got to be myself. And then from that I branched into hosting and organizing my own events, producing and really like creating spaces where other folks who are queer or femme or sexually liberated or kinky or wherever they fall in the spectrum of erotic identities, can really hear stories and see narratives reflected that not only look more like their own, but like give them space to actually be like, Oh, I'm into that.
00;05;19;10 - 00;05;39;05
Jennifer Eden
But when I do it, it looks this way. Or I use this thing, or I call it something different. Like all of those things are valid and I just want to be a conduit for giving other people space to define their own narratives, specifically their narratives around pleasure and eroticism and sexuality.
00;05;39;28 - 00;06;08;27
Rob Lee
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. For for for the for the introductory sort of like talk and for the type of work that you're doing because yeah, you know, you obviously already got the questions. You know, one of these questions are going to be asking later because her for those who are under been unfamiliar with it because we have these, I think odd and at times like really antiquated like views on sexuality and even talking about it.
00;06;09;07 - 00;06;18;22
Rob Lee
So for those that don't get it or may not have the knowledge base, what does a sexual what does a sex educator and a pleasure coach do exactly?
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Jennifer Eden
You know, a sex educator and a pleasure coach. Both of those titles are like very broad umbrellas that could be a lot of different things. Being a sex educator for me has shown up in a whole bunch of different ways. Right now, I am a prevention education trainer for a nonprofit, so I go out into the community and talk about sexual violence prevention, and I talk about Safe Touch and boundaries and consent at age appropriate levels for youth.
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Jennifer Eden
That's definitely a part of sex education that a lot of folks leave out, simply because it was not available to us when we were younger. So we don't think about how it really impacted us not having it, and we don't think about how it would impact future generations to include it in academia or in just like conversations that happen at your house, your aunties house, the barbershop.
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Jennifer Eden
Like all of those places where folks are talking about sex but not talking about it in life affirming and like self guided ways. I have also worked at a sex shop, which was tons of fun, but also the place where I really realized that like, people don't be talking about sex, people just be doing shit. People really be out here just putting stuff in their partners butts and just choking and slapping people without ever having a conversation on it.
00;07;47;05 - 00;08;05;20
Jennifer Eden
And I really, like I said, I'm all about creating a space where people can figure out how to talk about the stuff that they need to talk about. Because if you want to put something in your partner's but you should talk about it first. And I feel like I've given that advice more times than I ever thought I would in my life.
00;08;05;20 - 00;08;25;14
Jennifer Eden
But it was something that came up often when I was working at a sex shop. And even now, when I'm doing more like one on one or couple specific work, a lot of times folks ask, How do I tell my partner blank? And I'm like, What you just told me, what's the difference? You just told me you wanted to try this thing.
00;08;25;14 - 00;08;53;06
Jennifer Eden
You just told me This is the porn you watch or you know, how you identify or whatever. So what's the difference between telling me and telling apartments? And the answer is usually fear of judgment, fear of consequence, fear of something being different in your relationship after this revelation or something being taken away from you, because now you are seen as dirty or sinful or whatever.
00;08;53;06 - 00;08;57;12
Jennifer Eden
We've been taught to call somebody who is simply standing in their own church.
00;08;58;13 - 00;09;09;12
Rob Lee
And so I want to step back real quick, because I feel like that same sex shop I may have been hanging out there, I may have met some friends there at one point. I believe it's a type of sweetener is the name of this place.
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Jennifer Eden
And you might be right about that.
00;09;11;19 - 00;09;29;07
Rob Lee
Yes. And so there is for for people that know me relatively well, they would have heard me talk about being in the jungle out there in the in the wilderness, as it were, when I was just like casually dating. And one of the things I would do, I met a friend who happened to work there because I was just like I was going to kick it, which you like a shift.
00;09;29;13 - 00;09;49;11
Rob Lee
And I was like, Yo, I have stories, I have things that I'm seeing and and literally that thing did come up in there where it was a guy, I believe there maybe with his is I think it was his wife because they were talking about anniversary stuff and he was like, Yeah, do you like this item? And she was like, This, whatever you like, it is going here.
00;09;49;11 - 00;10;04;13
Rob Lee
But I was like, Wow. I was like, This is this is what we're doing. And granted, this is a while ago and I'm just sitting there like figuratively clutching my pearls. If I was like by the time I left, I was like, Yeah, this is great. This is amazing. You know, so many trench coats that walked in there.
00;10;04;13 - 00;10;29;26
Jennifer Eden
I had lots of pearl clutching moments while I was working there. But, you know, you got to keep it professional, keep it together. You want to appear nonjudgmental, which of course, like I'm not there to yuk anyone's yum. I'm not here to be judgmental or tell you something is like wrong or not for you or whatever. But what I am there to do is tell you how to do it safely and consensually.
00;10;30;03 - 00;10;51;23
Jennifer Eden
And so if you're not starting from a place of like wanting it to feel good or wanting it to like even be something that the other person involved, wants or desires, then like we got to take a few steps back from purchasing the item. Yeah. So let's like, let's talk about the conversation and the things that we need to figure out how to say before we just go doing stuff.
00;10;51;23 - 00;10;53;23
Jennifer Eden
The people's bodies that they have not agreed to.
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Rob Lee
Yeah, I feel like when you're in sort of those kind of like intimate situations, we have a weird thing about intimacy in this country at this time, but I think if you're intimate with someone or you have that sort of relationship or normally ship and you talk to them more about tacos and burritos and pizza than actually what you're going to do with them, with their bodies and so on.
00;11;17;14 - 00;11;25;15
Rob Lee
That's that's an issue right there that you might want to kind of let's rewind a little bit and let's ground and level set and figure out, oh, so what are we doing here exactly?
00;11;25;15 - 00;11;49;12
Jennifer Eden
There's definitely like a whole lot of conversations that get missed. And to jump on something you were sharing, I think that Baltimore is a pretty sexually conservative city and it might not appear that way because we got the block or whatever else that like folks want to point out as these like sexual hubs for the city, but one like strip clubs are not sex dungeons.
00;11;49;18 - 00;12;19;09
Jennifer Eden
Contrary to popular belief. And also like somebody's going to see a show, somebody's going to like receive entertainment is not even necessarily a reflection of what their sex life looks like outside of that. And so I think that even in trying to create spaces in the city, because I do produce burlesque shows and kink events, and so I've been trying to tell venues that like, this is what I'm trying to do in your space.
00;12;19;09 - 00;13;04;02
Jennifer Eden
They're like, Burlesque sounds like naked and make it sounds like sex. And sex sounds like dirty or immoral or illegal or something. I don't want associated with my venue, but when it comes to DC and Philly, I don't have no problems, no shame to my city. Baltimore is my hometown and I love it dearly, but I will say that folks in DC and folks in Philly I have found are much more sexually liberated, much more willing to like come together in spaces that are meant for sexual discussion and freedom and education and really make dialog around desire and pleasure a part of what we just talk about, not just where we want to go get
00;13;04;02 - 00;13;14;15
Jennifer Eden
something to eat or whatever. Like that's, that's boring to me, especially if like you're actually trying to get down. Why are we not talking about why are we not having conversation?
00;13;14;18 - 00;13;33;05
Rob Lee
I remember when when I was younger because you know what now? But when I was younger, I used to have this nickname like the definition, because I would always just find a way to work that into conversations because I was that version of Nerd, I was like, Yo, so you hear about this? Is that a real thing? Yeah, do that.
00;13;33;14 - 00;13;58;12
Rob Lee
And I would just, you know, that's just conversation because I want to have this this discourse around it, this kind of like, what are people actually doing? Am I advanced, am I behind, am I just into some weird stuff? And I find as I've gotten older, people are talking about it in bated breath, in hushed tones. And it's like we're actually able to like do this with with anyone and how are we really one, two with consenting adults and all of that good stuff.
00;13;58;12 - 00;14;30;12
Rob Lee
It's so why are we not like really talking about it as much? And I try to tackle it from what I know, doing podcasts and all. And I've had two different attempts at doing a sex ed podcast and the the both of them kind of had this, this inclination towards, you know, people of color. And because I think the notion was where, you know, I would have I would be the the guy who didn't know anything side of things and the other person would be the educators like, oh, you know something?
00;14;30;12 - 00;14;53;01
Rob Lee
You can speak on this like literally with like scientific background and knowledge. I'm just saying, hey, is this real? And it ultimately the goal was to inform folks. So we're not hurting each other with in the pursuit of pleasure, you know, that was really the focus of both instances, but they weren't sustainable. It was it was really weird.
00;14;53;01 - 00;14;56;01
Rob Lee
It was like, this is the thing that we're all into and seems to some degree.
00;14;56;20 - 00;15;27;26
Jennifer Eden
Yeah, you would think that there would be more of an audience for that type of conversation. And I will say that, like, the landscape has changed so much in the last five years, and I'll even say in the last two years, the pandemic was a wild time and I'll say is a wild time because we're still there. Yet when it comes to discussion around sex and sexuality, only fans got happened during the pandemic in a way that really forced sex work into like a mainstream conversation.
00;15;28;10 - 00;15;53;27
Jennifer Eden
Also, I firmly believe that every film was in a nude sharing text thread or group at some point in time during the pandemic, myself included fans. If you do not have friends that you can share your nudes with and receive the verbal affirmation that you deserve to feed your ego and give you the confidence that you need to go out in the world and tackle racism and sexism and all of those things.
00;15;54;07 - 00;16;15;28
Jennifer Eden
Get you some brands you can share your nudes with. Okay, because those groups got me through, okay. Like being in the house, not doing shit for the first part of 2020. I was going mad, but having my friends shout out to the whole hog because my people.
00;16;16;05 - 00;16;16;09
Rob Lee
Are.
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Jennifer Eden
Like, we really had days where like somebody would start off the day sending a pic, like, All right, how y'all feeling? And it went on as people woke up because, you know, we wasn't on a schedule as people woke up. City over here, booty shake, a nice little creative lighting, little sensual shadows situation. It really like gave me the energy to get through on some days for my girls to just be in the thread.
00;16;45;03 - 00;16;49;04
Jennifer Eden
Like, yes, like I appreciate yourself.
00;16;49;06 - 00;16;56;21
Rob Lee
And it sounds fun. Like, I mean, there's not an equivalent of in the circle of like out of context ball pitchers. I don't think I'm sending that. Don't think I'm.
00;16;56;22 - 00;17;21;16
Jennifer Eden
Going to know how to make that sexy. I promise you, I have never received a sexy picture, like a sexy nude from assist assessment. Anybody I know who is born with a dick? Please figure out how to take sexy pictures of it. Okay. Because the ones I receive they not. I don't want the dick anyway. But you're not sending a picture that makes me even reconsider.
00;17;21;22 - 00;17;27;01
Jennifer Eden
It does not appear enticing, especially actually if it is sent unsolicited.
00;17;27;09 - 00;17;29;17
Rob Lee
Oh, okay. I do those. Can't do those.
00;17;30;02 - 00;17;49;13
Jennifer Eden
Please do not just send pictures of your genitalia to people's DMS. Text, email, like none of those things. That's weird. That's wild. In some countries it's illegal. So please do not just send unsolicited pictures of your genitalia. If you're going to send consensual pictures of it, make it nice.
00;17;49;25 - 00;18;02;02
Rob Lee
And have costumes. I mean, that's that's the thing that you look. Then this next business venture starts and I need to get a sponsor. It's like, Yeah, look, I like hot costumes. I'll be great. You know, it's a little bow tie, top hat. The whole thing is great. My home.
00;18;02;02 - 00;18;07;00
Jennifer Eden
He makes hats and scarves. They go for the wintertime. Okay, to keep all the things warm.
00;18;08;06 - 00;18;29;13
Rob Lee
So let's talk about storytelling a little bit. I'm skipping ahead. So I read through poetry and storytelling that you're bringing the unique style of central edutainment, which I love, and what humor which is I also find great. And it makes it sound like sex is fun, which often it is not depicted in that way, and sex is entertaining and even even fun even talking about it.
00;18;29;21 - 00;18;52;25
Rob Lee
So, so going back to like how did you kind of like dove into that niche of making like that, that edutainment and and really doing the humor because I hear it coming from you. You have like that sort of energy that just really works and when did you like really get into where you're at now? When did you come to that realization of, this is how I want to go about this, this is how I'm going to do this.
00;18;52;25 - 00;19;05;26
Rob Lee
Because you you touched on a little bit of it, I think, with some of the restrictions here in Baltimore and having to maybe venture to DC and Philly. So so tell me about that of where you're at now and this this sort of like part of your body of work.
00;19;06;25 - 00;19;30;19
Jennifer Eden
You know, I learned that I was sexy before I learned that I was funny. If I had learned that I was funny earlier in life, that I could be places. Okay, not that Baltimore was not a lovely place to be, but I could have been sitting on some stacks by this point in my life. Okay. But I think that making sex jovial, making it funny, makes it approachable.
00;19;30;26 - 00;20;05;07
Jennifer Eden
It makes it less awkward for folks to talk about. It creates a space where if I'm willing to make fun of myself or some wild experience that I had or some crazy shit that somebody told me, then that makes other folks more comfortable saying, Well, this might be a dumb question, but since we all t and hear it, then let me just go ahead and throw it in the mix, because they don't have that fear of judgment when we're all just collectively laughing, collectively being joyful and collectively like learning in a way that's hidden.
00;20;05;12 - 00;20;27;12
Jennifer Eden
Because let's face it, if I really said I'm going to lecture you on consent and boundaries, chances are you're not really looking to buy a ticket to that on a Friday or Saturday night. Right. But if I tell you that we're going to have a burlesque show and that if you're sitting in the front row, you may very well get some sense in your face, but you don't get to touch those non-attachment.
00;20;27;20 - 00;20;56;01
Jennifer Eden
Those titties belong to the performer. And unless that performer gives you express permission, then you don't get to touch people. And guess what? That's how it works in real life, too. When you were on dates, when you were on whatever dating app you have decided on, like think about consent in that same way you think about it when you sit in front row at one of my shows and there are brown booted cheeks in your face that you don't get to touch.
00;20;56;17 - 00;21;21;16
Jennifer Eden
You get to enjoy things, you get to find pleasure in things without touching them, without violating boundaries, without like being inconsiderate of someone's humanity. And I think that's what it all comes down to. Like we are all people with varied backgrounds and experiences and identities and traumas and things that brought us to where we are in this moment.
00;21;21;22 - 00;21;30;12
Jennifer Eden
And so, of course, you're not going to know everything that someone has been through, but you can start with a baseline of respecting someone's humanity.
00;21;30;12 - 00;21;30;22
Rob Lee
Yes.
00;21;31;06 - 00;21;40;16
Jennifer Eden
That's really the foundation of all of this interaction. I just happen to preach that message through sex and sexuality. But it's all about humanity.
00;21;40;16 - 00;21;59;26
Rob Lee
Yeah. I mean, it's funny, like, I have this theory and I'm still working through it because it's every now and again I see something that kind of informs it and I see something that is like, I don't know if that's 100%, but I think the view at times and it's usually attached to people who have a certain degree of fame, right?
00;21;59;26 - 00;22;17;25
Rob Lee
If you're famous, then you're not deserving of humanity. You've got money, you're not deserving of humanity. You got something that someone wants. You're not deserving of humanity. That's the way it's depicted. And then people kind of like poke away at it. Case in point, if someone is like, I really just need a break, I'm at capacity, you're rich.
00;22;17;25 - 00;22;36;09
Rob Lee
You back on stage. And that's it's weird that we we do that in many pockets and it's sort of wrong. And starting off as you were touching on with this baseline of humanity, like let's just start there. I think most people need that message outside of it being related to sex or anything.
00;22;36;28 - 00;23;04;05
Jennifer Eden
I think the same thing happens at the opposite end of the spectrum to where we think that if someone is poor or not living a lavish life, then they are not entitled to pleasure or joy or rest. And so part of my work specifically, because I know that a lot of folks do not have $200 to go out and buy the latest vibrator on the market or $500 to go buy custom sex furniture or leather gear or whatever.
00;23;04;14 - 00;23;29;13
Jennifer Eden
Like you you got a couple of dollars to go to your local target or dollar store or hardware store and find some implements that are safe paint stirrer, the spatula or some zip ties. Be careful with the zip ties though. They can break the skin, but like there's all sorts of ways to open up your pleasure experience in financially accessible ways.
00;23;29;24 - 00;24;08;12
Jennifer Eden
Chances are you got a rubber spatula in your kitchen right now and that feels lovely on the skin. Just saying. So I really think it's important to let folks who don't have a whole bunch of money and don't have a whole bunch of time because they're working, trying to make money to keep up. Like it's important for folks on their end of the spectrum as well to know that like pleasure is not only something that you deserve and should have access to, but it's really what what keeps you going and what makes life worth living when it seems like all you're doing is clock at 9:00 and now all you're doing is like waiting for
00;24;08;12 - 00;24;26;00
Jennifer Eden
the bus or the train, and all you're doing is like picking up and drop it off kids. Like, No, the pleasurable experience is the thing that makes you want to keep going and want to keep doing the stuff that you have to do because the things that you want to do are the things that really bring in joy and life force, energy.
00;24;26;00 - 00;24;55;12
Rob Lee
Absolutely. 100%. What sorts of and this is this is interesting for me what sorts of obviously all of this interesting. But I want to at least have special interest on this one. What kind of questions or challenges like are addressed? Like from from your vantage point? You can speak for your own experience, but what's what sort of challenges, questions are asked like that that you're commonly like answering like in generalities obviously that you're really asking, you know, is it, you know, how do I do this?
00;24;55;12 - 00;25;12;09
Rob Lee
And I think you touched on it earlier of like, why won't you just talk with the person about that? You talked, you told me about it. So what sorts of things that people are usually coming to you talking about and kind of trying to seek advice on or seek education around a coaching around that.
00;25;12;13 - 00;25;42;13
Jennifer Eden
So most commonly somebody is asking, how do I tell my partner blank? My second most common category of questions is When do I start talking to my kid about sex? And my answer is usually something along the lines of way before you ever think they're thinking about sex because the conversation is always relevant. It's it's always age appropriate.
00;25;42;13 - 00;26;03;02
Jennifer Eden
You just are tailoring your language and specificity as a kid gets older. So when a kid is two or three or four years old, when you catch them in the bathtub reaching for their own private parts, that when you see them like humping a toy or the edge of the couch, you're not going to slap their hand or tell them, No, that's wrong.
00;26;03;08 - 00;26;30;05
Jennifer Eden
You tell them that something you do in private or like you have to have conversations about appropriateness rather than restrictions, because those are the things that stay with us into our adult life. And whether we actually remember it or not, it is ingrained into our psyche. If somebody slapped our hand away when we tried to touch our own body, or when we asked a question about exploring our own identity, somebody said, No, that's wrong.
00;26;30;05 - 00;26;55;10
Jennifer Eden
Or We don't do that in this house or this family. And so it's really important to be able to have age appropriate conversations about boundaries and safe touch and who to trust, who you can be naked in front of and who not to like. It's totally appropriate to tell a kid that, like, well, when you go to the doctor's office, they might ask you to take your clothes off, and that's medically necessary.
00;26;55;15 - 00;27;17;25
Jennifer Eden
But if you are at school or at a friend's house and somebody asks you to take your clothes off, that's not necessary. So you might want to call a parent or guardian if that is something that happens. And so all of those things lead up to being able to have safe and comfortable conversations about actual sex acts when that is relevant.
00;27;18;05 - 00;27;24;23
Jennifer Eden
But consent and boundaries and safe touch are relevant well before sex acts are discussed.
00;27;24;28 - 00;27;31;02
Rob Lee
Absolutely. So I got two more real questions and then I got those Rapidfire questions for you.
00;27;31;02 - 00;27;34;14
Jennifer Eden
So that's what I'm here for, baby. Let's get into.
00;27;34;16 - 00;27;55;07
Rob Lee
It. So I want to talk about the education piece of it, like in in terms of the becoming certified in sex education and and the work that you don't ultimately what goes into that describe that process because I don't think people have a sense of like what it takes to like, I can talk about this and I know what I'm talking about.
00;27;56;06 - 00;28;22;24
Jennifer Eden
There are so many different paths into sex education. I feel like everybody within my own little network has come to it differently. Some folks in like a traditional academic route where they went to school to be a sex therapist or a marriage and family therapist or a somatic sexologist. Like there's all sorts of academic ways to sex education, but there's also lived experience groups.
00;28;23;01 - 00;28;45;29
Jennifer Eden
There's also just having a lot of sex then like creating actual like language and dialog around what you're doing. There's also reading books like Go to your local library. They're still open and they're still free. It's amazing. Lots of them have banned books around sexuality, especially if they have anything to do with like queerness or gender variance or anything.
00;28;45;29 - 00;29;19;03
Jennifer Eden
But like there's books out there, there's resources out there, there's a ton of free resources out there to just equip yourself with this knowledge. And there are paths to different levels of certification through different organizations. Different some academic programs have like more accessible certifications so that if you're not able to go the master's route or the PhD route, you can pursue a certification or different like continuing education credits, or there's just a million different ways to get into this work.
00;29;19;03 - 00;29;51;16
Jennifer Eden
And I think it's really important for anybody who wants to get into sex education to figure out what it is that they're trying to say. If you're getting into sex education to teach anatomy and physiology, that's a different path and a different level of interest. Then teaching somebody how to like give a great oral session. Like though that's still education with two different mentalities that bring you to either of those parts.
00;29;51;16 - 00;30;23;03
Jennifer Eden
And so like just figure out where you are, what you're interested in, and then what it is that you want to know and say about it. And also like connect with folks. There are so many amazing black women in sex education, so many black queer people who are making it a point to take their own lived experience in their own gender journeys and using it as a way to say, Hey, there's so many more options than what we were taught.
00;30;23;14 - 00;30;47;22
Jennifer Eden
Everything is not for everybody. Maybe you feel great in the identity that you were socialized into, but if you don't, that's okay and you can live a full and happy and pleasurable life. And here's some tools and language to maybe get you there. Like there's so much and like shout out to everybody who was really like making that shit accessible is making my work easier because y'all are doing it too.
00;30;47;28 - 00;30;48;24
Jennifer Eden
So shout out to y'all.
00;30;49;29 - 00;30;56;02
Rob Lee
So here's the last real one. What was your first time on on stage performing?
00;30;56;12 - 00;31;00;06
Jennifer Eden
I was about to say, like my first time was right. Okay.
00;31;01;17 - 00;31;14;07
Rob Lee
I definitely had that pause that I wrote the pause a day, which I thought was really funny because I'm a ridiculous person at times. But yeah. What was your first time like performing on stage? What was it like? Where was it and what was also said took the stage for us.
00;31;14;13 - 00;31;44;11
Jennifer Eden
The first time I remember performing was at Warm Wednesdays. I was 16 years old. I believe you were supposed to be 18 to get into the venue, but once again shout out to the city is because they got me into the venue. I so I know that I had been there several times before I actually got on the stage and I think I got on stage a couple of times before I did this particular poem.
00;31;44;19 - 00;32;18;05
Jennifer Eden
But the first time I remember thinking to myself, I'm a poet was when I got on stage and I performed this piece that I still perform to this day. It is called Ode to Families and it is my love Letter to Women and Femmes who have to navigate looking straight even though we are not. And I say that because I came out at a very young age, I was like 15, 16 at the time that I was like, Oh yeah, girls are where it's at.
00;32;18;05 - 00;32;46;02
Jennifer Eden
And like, the language that I've used to describe my sexuality has evolved throughout my life. But I realized that even when I used the language that I had at the time to describe my sexuality, even when I wore my little rainbow belts or ring or whatever insignia I had at the time, it wasn't much like there's lots more rainbow in Pride Apparel now than there was all that time ago.
00;32;46;07 - 00;33;14;13
Jennifer Eden
But even then it didn't help because when a man decided that they had their sights on me, especially in these poetry settings, they didn't care how I said I identified. So I wrote this poem to explicitly say how I identified, but also to affirm that like, Hey, friends, our sexuality is valid. We don't have to look like anything for us to be attracted to the people that we're attracted to.
00;33;14;17 - 00;33;38;05
Jennifer Eden
We don't have to signal, we don't have to flag, we don't have to present or dress in any particular way for our desires and our sexuality to be valid. And I just remember like getting all of that and the yes and the like finger wagging audience. And I was just like, oh my gosh, somebody understands this. Somebody relates to this.
00;33;38;05 - 00;34;04;15
Jennifer Eden
Somebody thinks that my experience is not only valid and real, but worthy of applause. And that was such an affirming feeling because I'm to say it here, people don't believe me, but this is a Baltimore podcast, so I'm certain that somebody is going to listen to it and be like, Oh, yeah, I'm guilty. I was bullied like hell in high school and even in college, people were not nice to me at all.
00;34;04;20 - 00;34;24;23
Jennifer Eden
People make fun of me because of my body, because I was light skinned, because I was a little thick in ways, because I was perceived to be a whole because of my body, because I had closer relationships with boys than girls. Because girls were scared of dikes. They thought we were looking at them in the locker room, so they didn't want to be friends with the girl that they knew was out.
00;34;25;00 - 00;34;52;21
Jennifer Eden
And so, yeah, I had a lot closer relationships with dudes who also liked girls. That made sense in that way. But like, I got a lot of negativity about simply existing in my body and in my identities and in my truth. And so I vividly remember the first time that somebody clapped for me, and that's a feeling that I never want to live without.
00;34;53;03 - 00;35;24;10
Jennifer Eden
I love performing. I love being on stage. I love hosting, I love incorporating my experience into education because lived experience in education, academia is not the only way to learn. Books are not the only way to learn the stuff that you have been through. That's all teachers, too. And so being able to share my experiences in my hosting and in my poetry and in my teaching makes some of the bullshit that I've been through.
00;35;24;10 - 00;35;32;14
Jennifer Eden
Worth it, to be honest, but also really makes it feel like I'm supposed to be on stages.
00;35;32;28 - 00;35;58;16
Rob Lee
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that and thank you. Thank you for sharing that and going back through the archives, if you will, of like just how we got here and how you got here ultimately. And so, yeah, thank you for indulging me in there. So now is that point of the show where we wrap up with the fun, with the real questions and get to the fun questions.
00;35;58;16 - 00;36;06;08
Rob Lee
I'll put it this way Don't overthink them, don't overthink them, don't overthink up. So let's see. I got four for you.
00;36;06;21 - 00;36;13;27
Jennifer Eden
All right, let's do it. I don't get nervous, but I'm a little. I'm a little sitting on the edge of my seat because I don't know where we want to go.
00;36;14;02 - 00;36;31;07
Rob Lee
No, I want to add a fifth one to this. I got a fifth one out there. All right. So out and so not necessarily within like your work or what have you, but, you know, you can take it wherever you want to take it. What is the most common question you're asked like, What is something that people just like or ask you in conversation?
00;36;32;00 - 00;36;40;22
Rob Lee
It could be related to just like how you present, how maybe how you go about certain things. Not necessarily work, but how do you what do people usually ask you?
00;36;41;21 - 00;37;17;03
Jennifer Eden
People ask me all sorts of very invasive questions about my personal sexual practices, which in most settings I will absolutely share because I'm just that person. But people will often ask me how I attract the people that I attract, which like, I don't know how to answer that question. I'm just the why people that I don't know. But yeah, it's always like, well, how did you like how do you find people who are into the type of sex that you're into having?
00;37;17;03 - 00;37;38;06
Jennifer Eden
Or how do you find people who like see gender and sexuality as expansively as you do? Of course, they don't use such like flowery social justice language. They usually say things like, Well, how do you find studs who let you fuck them? So I. I don't know how to answer that question. They find me is the answer. That's that's it.
00;37;38;06 - 00;37;39;02
Jennifer Eden
That's all I've got.
00;37;40;06 - 00;37;46;11
Rob Lee
It's amazing. It's, it sets up the next question. Very well. What's a femme daddy?
00;37;47;07 - 00;38;19;00
Jennifer Eden
Oh, a femme daddy is me, honey. Daddy is someone who was socialized into femininity, someone who was either assigned female at birth or somebody who grew up as a girl, who embraces their masculine energy in a way that is nurturing and pleasure giving and really just a conduit for beautiful experiences. It can show up in how I dress.
00;38;19;00 - 00;38;41;09
Jennifer Eden
Sometimes I dress more masculine. I have a badass floral suit that I cannot wait to wear. Sometimes it shows up in me opening doors and pulling out chairs. It shows up in me like saying good morning and greeting people as we walk down the street, which, like I've noticed, is a very masculine perceived thing to do, to say good morning.
00;38;41;09 - 00;39;05;03
Jennifer Eden
The strange men all the time. And they look at me like I call them gay. You mean like it's just polite, but the way that it's received makes me think about how people are socialized and how, like, men feel entitled to access to women and telling women to smile and greeting them and expecting a response in a way that like they don't expect to receive.
00;39;05;03 - 00;39;22;09
Jennifer Eden
So I like to turn that on its head and really make men think about like the way that they interact with women, but also receiving some of that care, some of that nurturing. Like it's okay to smile sometimes, Daddy. Yes, right. Right. You don't mean to be so hard all the time. You can let go.
00;39;23;03 - 00;39;44;12
Rob Lee
I mean, I might have a nickname on a jersey, a waved, adding situation there, because apparently I got daddy energy. Daddy, apparently I got daddy energy. I don't know. But I will say this. Yeah. When that flip happens, do you know how to really deal with it? I've been party to seeing goofy things happen in public and I'm like, and I'll be talking to people.
00;39;44;19 - 00;39;56;25
Rob Lee
So I do. I say to them what they've kind of said to the person, but I make it worse. So it's like, Yeah, baby, let me come over and talk to you. And I was like, How about I go there and take you in that alley? I do that because I like to know.
00;39;57;17 - 00;40;01;15
Jennifer Eden
Very much the energy. That's very much the path that we're on, sir.
00;40;01;28 - 00;40;20;11
Rob Lee
And I just make it like, worse. And they're like, Bro, it's like, exactly. But another side of it, I'll say, like, my, my partner who she's she's a lot short. She's she's tiny. And like, like, I'm six, four seven. She's like five two. And I rose one time she was like, Yeah, we meet at eight almost at night.
00;40;20;11 - 00;40;40;04
Rob Lee
So it's like, yeah, sure. Yes, ma'am, absolutely. Whatever you need. What else you need? It was it it was nice. It was a new energy for me. So is the next one favorite flavors? We all have different flavors we're into. Take that how you want to take that? What what what types of flavors are you into? Like, I like lime.
00;40;40;10 - 00;40;49;00
Rob Lee
I like lime and whiskey. You know, I like to have that as part of that whiskey kind of drink. That's how I make my drinks at time. So what are your favorite flavors?
00;40;49;00 - 00;41;13;22
Jennifer Eden
I love Chai. I drink so much. Chai it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, I guess the way that a lot of people, like, drink coffee day long, that's how I am with Chai. I put a little bit of almond milk creamer in and a little dash of cinnamon on top. That's secret recipe. Don't tell nobody like chai is the thing that just, oh, it's pleasing to the palate no matter what time of day.
00;41;14;01 - 00;41;14;23
Jennifer Eden
I love it.
00;41;15;07 - 00;41;23;11
Rob Lee
Yeah. Mm hmm. Feel. Feel like there could be a little colorism there, but. I don't know. I don't know. We'll say. Okay. What was the last movie you watched?
00;41;24;13 - 00;41;54;25
Jennifer Eden
What is the last movie I watched in its entire city without falling asleep on it is the question. It was not something new. I watched the same movies over and over again. I think the last movie that I watched was Gypsy. It is a movie that came out in like the fifties or sixties, like the advent Technicolor, but it's a movie about Gypsy Rose Lee.
00;41;55;00 - 00;42;28;12
Jennifer Eden
She was a child star, kind of raised in her little sister Shadow. And then once the sister decided she didn't want to be the main attraction anymore, Gypsy is what she came to be known by, became the star of the show, and eventually became a very well-known burlesque dancer. And so the movie is like her evolution into that role as a burlesque dancer, but also the relationship between her and her mother, who was like very, very stereotype typical stage mom.
00;42;28;18 - 00;42;51;05
Jennifer Eden
And then also like the sibling rivalry dynamic and also a lot of the ins and outs of show business and the separate sacrifices that folks make for their success in that way. And then it's like a historical commentary on like vaudeville and variety shows and like the origins of burlesque. And it's one of my favorites, Gypsy and Look It Up, I think it's on HBO, Max.
00;42;51;14 - 00;42;53;10
Rob Lee
1962. Natalie Wood is the star.
00;42;53;25 - 00;42;54;18
Jennifer Eden
Yes.
00;42;55;04 - 00;43;06;11
Rob Lee
So is the last one I got for you. And I think you might go get where I'm going with this, but I don't know what is the most powerful word in the English language.
00;43;07;11 - 00;43;08;05
Jennifer Eden
Yes.
00;43;09;14 - 00;43;26;07
Rob Lee
So there you have it. So I think that's a good spot for us to start on this podcast. I thank you for being a part of this podcast and I want to invite and encourage you to tell the fine folks where to check out your work, to follow you. All of that good stuff. The floor is yours.
00;43;26;07 - 00;43;55;24
Jennifer Eden
Please connect with me on social media pleasure over everything. That is my mantra, my affirmation and my business name. So pleasure over everything. Coaching and sex education. I am available for trainings, for consults. I love going into businesses and organizations and folks see me in the email brief seeing that I'm a sex educator and they're like, Oh wow, this is going to be the best professional development I have ever.
00;43;55;24 - 00;44;18;05
Jennifer Eden
And you're right, it will because I'm really good at my job, but please connect with me. Pleasure over everything on Instagram. Pleasure over everything dot com. Those are the main ways to connect with me. I really cannot keep up with any of the evolving social media. TikTok is not my jam. It's just it's too much to keep up with.
00;44;18;15 - 00;44;35;10
Jennifer Eden
I am that age. Yes, I sure am. I'm okay with that. I'm very much okay with deciding that like this is where technology ends for me. I think I have enough in that regard. Abundance is beautiful, but so are limits. So we're boundaries.
00;44;35;10 - 00;44;50;24
Rob Lee
So there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Jennifer Eden for coming on to the podcast. And I'm Rob Lee, saying that there is pleasure in and around Baltimore. You've just got to look for it.
