Empowering Creativity: Abdul Ali's Journey with Thrive Arts and Community Building in Art
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Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today I have the privilege of being in conversation with a poet, writer, nonprofit consultant and cultural worker. Back in 2021, along with his friend and collaborator Shamar Hill, he co-founded Thrive Arts, a service organization that seeks to provide capacity building to communities of color. He currently serves as a co-chief executive officer.
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Rob Lee
Please welcome Abdul Ali. Welcome to the podcast.
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Abdul Ali
Thanks so much for having me.
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Rob Lee
Thank you for coming on. I practice that intro a couple of times before.
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Speaker 4
You're very good.
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Abdul Ali
You should do fantastic.
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Rob Lee
So again, thank you for for joining in and really making this time for us to chat. And before we get super deep and embedded in peeling his onion back, could you share your story like, you know, where'd you grow up? What was your first experiences and creativity? Writing, performing? You know, when I think of poetry, I think of someone I you know, it's not the snapping is not an I rise.
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Rob Lee
It's not that it is that the that. Well, tell me about that. Your you're kind of like your upbringing and ultimately what brings you to where you're at and the work that you're doing?
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Abdul Ali
Sure. Sure. So the condensed version, I grew up in a place called Queens, New York, and I had the good fortune of attending an all black elementary school. And the teachers there loved on us really, really hard. And it was not unusual for us to have a poet, you know, to come in for a weekly assembly and they would recite their work.
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Abdul Ali
Or to have a dance troupe like art was very much a part of not only our culture, but also the culture of our school that was run by black educators. Right. So I'm a beneficiary of that. And really proud of that. So I would say we had story time. Both teachers and volunteers would come in and read to us, but they also played the cassettes.
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Abdul Ali
We had cassettes back then and you would hear stories being dramatically read, you know, and I just got really excited about the human voice and how it can communicate emotion by different volumes and all of this kind of thing. Yeah. And then we had this poet come in and I remember I think her name was Linda, Michelle Barron.
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Abdul Ali
And I remember wanting to buy her book and memorizing her poems. And, you know, she had this poem called If I Were Music, I'd be jazz. So real you can feel this pure pizzazz, snazzy, jazzy, boiling ice. I'd never play the same way twice. When God. He made me. He heard the music and improvised. Yeah. So I was at that age with the written word, the power of voice.
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Rob Lee
That still. Yeah.
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Abdul Ali
Oh, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, fast forward, you know, I went to college and studied English and theater and, you know, there's I think a lot of creatives, they learned that there is the creation part of the art. And then there's the career part, right? Like, how do you earn a living? How do you build be a part of an ecosystem?
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Abdul Ali
You know, how to how are you supporting others and you know, others are supporting you to community. You know, that became very important to me. And so I start working in nonprofits and teaching and, you know, going back and forth between the two. And then, you know, I, I stumbled, you know, as many people of color. Do you know where you know, some of these spaces are very they're not progressive.
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Abdul Ali
And I remember during the pandemic talking to, you know, my dear friend Shamar and saying, you know what wouldn't be really the reflex. You know, if we started something where we could really support artists and kind of create a roadmap on how to thrive, you know, not just pay the bills, but how do you own the damn building and have tenants, you know, how do you be in a position to give grants, right?
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Abdul Ali
So that's the idea behind Thrive our Arts, and that's how I'm trying to live. I'm trying to walk the talk, not just talk the talk.
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Rob Lee
Yeah. And and we're definitely, definitely there's a chunk about that that I definitely want to dove in on. And so in this, you know, we have this this other question and I think it ties to, you know, one of the things that that you mentioned in that sort of introductory portion, is there another experience that comes to mind that kind of helpful?
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Rob Lee
You're like creative philosophy helping influence your creative philosophy. I know a lot of times we I guess my philosophy is I just want to see the thing get made. That's the thing I've been really rocking with. And I, you know, as a as a person who's an editor, it may be an idea that I think should just be out there in the universe and, you know, I mean, not be the person to do it.
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Rob Lee
I mean, I'd be the right person, you know. But, you know, I think having that idea and just share in it and see who rocks with it, that's that's what this is what I am about. I think it's like creative energy and it cannot be created or destroyed. That is a form mental alchemist reference. But so what is your creative philosophy?
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Rob Lee
I always try to see who's my enemy heads out here.
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Abdul Ali
Oh, goodness. So, you know, I don't know if I have a distilled, creative philosophy, but I will say that I'm very I really, really do believe that it's important as artists for us to have a vision, for us to have us as a safe space. And by safe, I mean safe to take risks. Right. And to watch something grow.
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Abdul Ali
Right. Because I think that, you know, the business of creating art is creating a live thing. Right? You wanted to grow in the world. You want people to engage it. You want it to travel. You want it to wear clothes and and do that. Do what it do, right? Yeah. So, yeah. Would that being said, you know, I, you know, I was an arts critic actually in my twenties.
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Abdul Ali
So I spent a lot of time not only just enjoying art for pleasure, but paying attention and studying it, seeing what the process was like, what ideas is the art piece engaging? Why is it a success? Why did it fall flat on its face? So these things, you know, I think that, you know, it's important, you know, is this art being created of our own vision or are we creating it for an audience that doesn't look like our our family and our neighbors and things like that?
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Abdul Ali
So I'm very fascinated by the art making process and the attendant wrestling, arm wrestling that happened within and without end inside us and outside of us. So yeah, you know, being true to that process, I mean, I mean, I don't know, like I really love when I go into the theater or go to a poetry reading or go to an art exhibition.
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Abdul Ali
And I feel somehow changed for the better.
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Abdul Ali
I think that that is, that may not be the only function of art, but that is a wonderful thing. You know, when you can create something and someone can engage it and they feel changed and it's way, right? It's like go go broke or go home, right? So so yeah, I don't I don't I think if I were to and also I think creativity is a moving living thing, you know, so if you if you were to ask me what was my vision for my, my only book of poems at the moment, you know, I would have one particular answer.
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Abdul Ali
It's like I was interested. I was interested in capturing the moment, the zeitgeist. Right? We were it was a very interesting time. My book is called Trouble Sleeping and I had Insomnia. There were all these I was living in Washington, DC. There were all these protests happening around Troy Davis. I mean, there was just so much happening all at once.
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Abdul Ali
And I really wanted to do justice and to not just, you know, write myself, but to write myself in a larger narrative of what was happening culturally, creatively, politically, all of that. So today I'm in a different place. You know, Creed is always moving, you know. So I think that when I present my next work, you know, I'll have a new a new philosophy or a new vision.
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Abdul Ali
So I think that, you know, so I don't think it's a static thing at all.
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Rob Lee
Absolutely. It's dynamic. And get used to the word. The German word is, I guess. And yeah and I think in some ways in in this I don't know I don't really like speaking too crazy about anything that I do or anything about my stuff. But I think in, in doing this podcast, I think a lot of times this is an accompaniment.
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Rob Lee
This is something that if you're listening to, let's say if I'm I have a guest on today they have an exhibition is opening soon. Listen to this. Right before right after. And it's going to give you something extra kind of touching on the that you said like you'll feel changed. And I think having something that's more well-rounded and when they whenever there's something on TV where they have like the fictionalized version, they have, like I think of the kind of the revision thing like o.j.
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Rob Lee
Right. And O.J. Simpson and all of his terribleness. And I remember the 3430 that went out and then like the fictionalize thing and it's like, oh, now I'm getting the full view and I feel like there's something, some truth there in the middle of all of that different stuff. And I think getting this much from the artist, from the creator, when something drops, whether it's here's my DVD commentary or my work, in addition to their work, I think there's something extra that's there that feels richer than just going there to see it or going there having someone critique it.
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Rob Lee
I think that there is something richer of kind of having a peek into who the person is as they're as they're putting this work out. So and I don't want to use I'm going to use a business ese right here for you because I think you'll appreciate it. So what are we should North Star creatively like? What are the three truths that kind of guide you in your work?
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Rob Lee
Because there's a cultural work component. There is the creativity component is a consultation component and there is the even critique component, as you touched on earlier, what are some of those truths that have guided you? I think across the different spheres you're working on.
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Abdul Ali
So I heard two questions, North Star and then three truths. So I would say the North Star is freedom.
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Speaker 4
Value.
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Abdul Ali
In all of the ways, right? So we're talking about creative freedom. We're talking about economic freedom. You know, spiritual, all of that. I think that's so important for the artists. I mean, we often forget about why why do we do what we do? You know, there's obviously something there's there's a special there's a particular something that we get when we're creating that we don't get into doing anything else right.
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Abdul Ali
And that's why we do it. In terms of three truths, I keep coming back to honesty right? Like, am I being honest, you know, in this piece of writing, in this what have you, some of us are not being honest. You know, we're following market trends or what have you. I'm not mad at anybody. I'm just saying, you know, honesty is really important.
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Abdul Ali
I think curiosity also, you know, it's not uncommon for me to want to do a little research to under to know the etymology of a thing. You know, I live in Baltimore now. How how did Baltimore get to be what it is? Was it always this way? What were the influences in making it this way? What are the narratives of Baltimore that we don't see in the news?
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Abdul Ali
And why is that so? I think Curiosity is a big engine for my truth telling, truth seeking. And then also, I think it's important for me to not stay in one place. You know, like I mentioned earlier about this safe space, I don't really believe that there's any place safe, but I do believe that at least psychologically, I need to feel safe to take risks.
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Abdul Ali
Anybody feels I tell my truths, even if it exposes me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable. I need to own that. I need to be comfortable with that. Otherwise I don't think the art can move forward and grow and be of consequence.
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Abdul Ali
I putting out what people want me to put out and that becomes more like well, publicity, me being a publicist or others or propaganda or something like that.
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Rob Lee
In the end there areas, I don't know, I think being in a spot and thank you for that because it really it, it crystallizes some stuff for me there and it kind of brings this thought to me this is not within the questions that you have, but it makes me think about this, this, this trend I'm seeing of more of the sort of creative stuff artists from people.
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Rob Lee
And it's like, Oh yeah, you know, I can make that. I could use a computer to make that is going to take from these different images. And I'm seeing more and more of that stuff sort of involved and it's taking out this human element. And I think that that is attached, for better or for worse, with this notion of how do you get your work out there?
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Rob Lee
Well, you social media to get to work out there, social media is not a is that art gallery is not a place to have your work seen in many regards. It's a place to share maybe some of the process and things of that nature. But you change from being a person that produces and creates art that speaks and has something to say, as opposed to a content creator.
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Rob Lee
And that's not what it is if we really take a look at it. And on occasion, when I listen to like rappers and they talk about, yeah, I'm just making music that's thinkable, oh, because it's after the bag versus the work and maybe that is the work. Maybe that is you're just, you know, making this sort of stuff.
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Rob Lee
But I think it's consideration as to make and what that, that shift is what, what things are really happening because you want to see good stuff. You don't want to see like these pale kind of impressions and comparisons to something. Because the more that that is, the more diluted that becomes, the more sanitized that that becomes. Yeah, I think when I'm, when I'm getting that ties to sort of that freedom of let me stress the boundaries, let me bug out some people.
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Rob Lee
Let me do this for the sake of extending and and doing really creative things. And maybe it won't be well-received. Maybe it'll be you know, everyone has like some of these classical musicians, everyone has a bad album. It's like what happened here? I don't know what happened here, bro, but they're still, like, revered as the talent that they are, that the creator that they are, the artist that they are.
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Abdul Ali
And maybe it's not that it's a bad it just wasn't popular.
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Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.
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Abdul Ali
You know, and I think there's something to be said about, you know, if the art is honest, then it should be received as such. But just because it's not popular, that doesn't mean it's less, you know, it's less than art. You know, like when we look at an artist's body of work, we may know them for this one thing, but they may have all these other things over here and there, you know?
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Abdul Ali
So I think that that's something for us to keep in mind. You know, when we're judging the artist and God, this content creator thing, I feel like I feel like that was born with maybe the Internet age, you know, and so it's somehow flattened the identity of the artist, you know, because when we think of artists, we think of having a signature as a source or special source about them, you know, that's defined.
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Abdul Ali
But if everyone can do what you're doing, then that sort of dilutes it, you know, and it kind of strips you of your artistry and your vision come just a content creator, someone anonymous and behind the scenes. Anybody can do it on an assembly line, you know, post that gif or what have you. Yeah. So I would say let's resist, you know, of being content creators and step into being artists, right.
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Rob Lee
And it makes you think and this is a haphazard segway, but it makes you, it makes you ask the question of how can artists thrive? And so that brings me to the grave arts. As we go back into that, let's talk about that a little bit, if you will. You shared a miss mission. What prompted the work? And I know you touched on it again, but for the folks in the back, let's tie back into it.
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Abdul Ali
Sure. So it's not a secret that the artists of color struggle harder for a variety of reasons, many of which we've inherited because of history. Right. Are fewer resources, fewer control of institutions that have resources, institutional racism, you name it. So this idea for thrive arts, you know, is to democratize the access and the knowledge. You know, like how do the thriving organizations, how do they stay thriving?
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Abdul Ali
You know, and how do we get those that are struggling to get into a position where they're thriving? Right. I go back to capacity. I mean, usually when you're meeting people in the community and someone says, oh, I founded a nonprofit, that person is probably went five has they're the founder, the executive director, the bookkeeper or the short order fry cook.
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Abdul Ali
They're the unofficial loan officer, the baby sitter, all of that and that isn't sustainable. It is hard to grow if you're doing five jobs. It's hard to do one job. Well.
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Speaker 4
Yeah, if.
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Abdul Ali
You have a family or loved ones that if you're a caregiver and you got to pay bills and all of that. So this lens of capacity, I think that's where it's at. You know, how do we do how do we do intelligent planning? Because it's hard to do that if you're just putting out fires, you know, you got ten bills and you're like, close my eyes.
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Abdul Ali
Let me just pick one. You know, that that that's very hard to grow when you're in that position. So, you know, Shemar and I, you know, he has a development background. I have a programing background. And how do we kind of like the superheroes, you know, let our powers.
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Speaker 4
Come.
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Abdul Ali
And work on behalf of community. So that's that's really what we're doing and how do we do it? You know, we we have a fiscal sponsorship program. You know, Baltimore has a really woeful history with fiscal sponsors. So I, you know, was aware of that. And I definitely wanted to change the narrative about that. We should be trying to amplify and lift up community organizations, not rob them blind.
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Abdul Ali
You know, stories where folks don't even know how much money they have in the coffers from one month to the next. So that puts them in a position of a subordinate position, a weak position, you know, with the depending on the fiscal sponsor to tell them how much they have in the bank as opposed to this is what my financial statement says.
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Abdul Ali
Let me see what your says so we can reconcile this, right?
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Abdul Ali
So these these things that may come as no brainers, it's not a no brainer for many. For many organizations, reality providing workshops. You know, we were talking about before the recording came on about funding sources, you know, how do you learn about that ecosystem and be a part of it, right? Yeah. How do you move from being an emerging artist to a developed, thriving artist?
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Abdul Ali
Right. And then also maybe you want to be nationally known, you know, that kind of thing, you know? So how do you how do you get to those levels? So I think all of those things is what I had in mind when I was thinking about five arts, because I do believe that the artist plays a very important role in our community.
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Abdul Ali
And, you know, we want our young people to know that you don't have to aspire to to be, you know, a professional athlete. Like that's the only way to make it. You know, like so many creative young people. And, you know, I'd like for them to know that they can have an abundant life and do well so long as they know the business side of it as well.
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Rob Lee
But yeah, those those two conversations always have to go in, like the art side of things, the business side of things. And I, you know, I've said it on here before that, you know, me pursuing is at least as art in the mindset. I've heard different things, I've heard, Oh, that's just journalism or that's not art or what have you.
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Rob Lee
Some of the grant applications I do were hilarious, but I think the strategy from what I do as a data analyst, helps me think of how I'm going to do this. My background is in business and it's funny, you know, when I was younger, you know, black parents do something, makes money. It's like, well, I want to be a comic book artist.
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Rob Lee
I don't know. They'll know better. I figure it out. And it's just sort of like atrophy we have where you start cutting off pieces of yourself and you're eventually going to come back to it, you know, because it's there, you know, it's like, Yeah, this is the thing that I used to do. I think and I think you touched on it earlier describing, you know, the your book of poetry that when we come back to it, it's like this is where I was at at this moment in my sort of creative journey.
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Rob Lee
Now, as a 37 year old man with the experience that are baked in from being, I guess, a seven year old that was drawing every 5 minutes is 30 years of experience. That has changed. Maybe how I view that like I'm not using crayons anymore. I'm using colored pencils and Japanese markers, you know, or whatever it is to do it.
00;24;28;08 - 00;24;46;13
Rob Lee
But that desire, that inclination is still there. And I, in those instances where I can speak with young folks earlier this year had a chance to go to my high school and I'd been there like 20 years and I had a moment of age. I was like, Yeah, you know, some of you are going to and I thought about it as I was talking.
00;24;46;13 - 00;25;04;10
Rob Lee
I was like, Can a young of the youngest, the oldest of you were born in 2004? I graduated in 2003. I am an old person and I was like, age has befallen us and I had to correct myself and catch myself. But as I'm talking to them, I'm just like your creativity matters and really sharing. Like, don't just piss it away.
00;25;04;24 - 00;25;28;12
Rob Lee
Like, you know, go as far as you can, go with it and see what their vision is and think of being creative, being an artist, or being in that sort of industry as cool. It's a huge industry and in I think it maybe you'll agree. I think that our contribution and contributions as people of color, as black people specifically, aren't always given their just due for the contributions that are made.
00;25;28;20 - 00;25;51;13
Rob Lee
And I think even here we see it regularly. We see, you know, music in a very big, bad way, having Baltimore club music influences in it. Oh, that's Jersey Club. No, no, no, no, no. Let's not do that. And there's something to be said about that. And I think when you see somebody here truly popping in and going off, they are something to aspire after.
00;25;51;13 - 00;26;03;13
Rob Lee
But having those resources, having people to kind of give you like, you know, you should do it this way or here's an avenue that you could approach. Like, as I would imagine that's coming from thrive arts. That's that's important.
00;26;04;13 - 00;26;39;08
Abdul Ali
Yeah, creativity is very important when you look at, you know, when I was in the classroom, I taught at I taught at an independent private school and then my colleagues who taught at public school, I noticed how much emphasis the independent private school put on creativity, not rote memorization, but developing your own presentations, your own entry point into the discourse.
00;26;39;08 - 00;27;04;25
Abdul Ali
And this is how you have disruptors and Steve Jobs, you know, and those types of people, people who are not just going with the status quo, but imagining how it might be, you know, and I feel like that is killed off in a lot of our public schools because of how dangerous it would be to have all these young people of color, you know, just disrupting society left and right like now.
00;27;04;25 - 00;27;22;05
Abdul Ali
Maybe Congress should have term limits or maybe, you know, and I this is why art books get banned so much, because that freedom that the artist is able to achieve it can become contagious. And society does not want us to be too free.
00;27;22;22 - 00;27;42;07
Rob Lee
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And you one of the things that becomes has become part of my my process in coming up with questions and trying to really, like I said, peel the onion back that's, you know, might make you cry. Sometimes you got people on your back and I, I listen to audiobooks because that's the quickest way that I can consume them.
00;27;42;07 - 00;28;05;01
Rob Lee
And I'm going back to start from the twenties, the thirties, about creativity, about person to person connection, because there has to be a connection, any sort of conversations to make people feel and recognize this as a safe space, to speak about their experiences is the stuff that goes into it. And that idea comes from, I think it was a throwaway from a rapper, but it was a throwaway from currency.
00;28;05;01 - 00;28;29;27
Rob Lee
And he is, you know, talking about I don't listen to current music when I'm in album mode because it kind of works its way into what you're doing. And I think we've deprecated creativity in a way, or define creativity in such like interesting constraints. There are instances where someone does something so, you know, different and it pops, but then, you know, I start questioning like, where is that really happening?
00;28;29;27 - 00;28;49;22
Rob Lee
What is really happening? So that brings me to this, this question I have for you. And this comes out of one of the books actually where where this great art happened. Where is the most interesting work happening? And I know that that's subjective or what have you, but I want to get your take. Where is like great art happening?
00;28;49;25 - 00;29;08;20
Rob Lee
Is it in like the blighted communities, quote unquote communities that don't have the resources, but they're getting out stuff with sparse resources. Is it on the college campuses? Where do you see like in terms of local or demographics, where do you see like the great art coming out of? Where is it happening?
00;29;10;05 - 00;29;42;28
Abdul Ali
You know, I think that there's great art and creativity in all corners of our community. I'm sure you have had a moment where either you yourselves or someone you were talking to said something exactly the way it needed to be, said. It was just pure poetry. You know, that happens on a regular basis, you know, I mean, the way that folks talk, you know, and they have their their idioms and their style.
00;29;42;28 - 00;30;08;12
Abdul Ali
And this is all informed from the culture. You have kids scribbling in their notebooks, you know, tuning out of class and creating these amazing sketches. But they're not calling it art. It's just something that they do. Right, because art has this almost elitist association with it that, oh, it has to be in a gallery or it has to be in the MoMA for it to be considered art.
00;30;08;19 - 00;30;35;16
Abdul Ali
But that's just not true. I mean, there's art all around us, you know, somebody is Grandmama made a new recipe on a cake, you know, and it's it's a culinary art and it's lovely, you know. So I think there's art all around us. I just think that we we need to pay attention. We need to and not everybody wants their stuff to be for sale.
00;30;35;16 - 00;30;37;20
Abdul Ali
Some people do it for pleasure. Yeah. So we.
00;30;38;02 - 00;30;38;23
Speaker 4
Embrace.
00;30;38;23 - 00;30;57;22
Abdul Ali
The diversity within creativity. There are some people they want to get paid for it and that's cool. And then there are others where they just wanted to weave, they wanted to make you something, and it's from the soul and they're content with you just being happy to receive something that they made that came from their spirit.
00;30;58;22 - 00;30;59;00
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;30;59;11 - 00;31;18;06
Abdul Ali
So I think that yeah, I think we need to embrace more folk art artists. We need to embrace all different kinds of art and then also show them that there are all these different paths that they can do with it if they want to write.
00;31;18;23 - 00;31;19;10
Speaker 4
It's a different.
00;31;19;22 - 00;31;25;09
Abdul Ali
Choosing not to do something and believing that you can't do anything with it.
00;31;25;28 - 00;31;46;23
Rob Lee
One or 2%. And that's and that's why when I talk to people, I pitch this podcast and pitch interviews and all I try to have as broad of an understanding because I've talked to people, they will look at, oh, visual arts. That's artists like you don't forget culinary arts because I love talking with chefs. I love having those sorts of conversations or, you know, well, culture.
00;31;46;23 - 00;32;14;15
Rob Lee
Why are you talking to small business owners? They are they are places where art can be sold there, places where art can be like shown from a visual standpoint. And a lot of a lot of artists are entrepreneurs. Let's not take that out of it. You know, they're selling their work. So, yeah, just trying to, you know, change this sort of like rigid and I think outdated way that we look at things to be more inclusive and broader and reflective of what's happening.
00;32;14;15 - 00;32;35;06
Rob Lee
Like there are some instances where dance isn't part of the whole arts, like funding package or what have you or, you know, podcasting. Oh, this is not a media is like I'm not a podcaster like some do with a microphone. I'm trying to do some curating here. I'm trying to be intentional of who I speak to and try to like think of the listener.
00;32;35;06 - 00;32;54;22
Rob Lee
At the end of the day, what's interesting, what's something that can be a benefit now articulating that in a way that feels that key, that keys on all the words we talked about earlier, I don't know. I just do what I do. As you were saying earlier, I don't know if this is art, but I think I enjoy making it and I think that people enjoy listening to it.
00;32;55;09 - 00;33;17;10
Abdul Ali
Yeah, yeah. You are doing storytelling that is a part of the arts and sometimes we have to teach people how to see what we do, right? Yeah. We can't let them define what we do. We have to kind of like Muhammad Ali styles it and the greatest, you know, you don't recognize it. I am going to say I am the greatest.
00;33;17;10 - 00;33;22;23
Abdul Ali
Right. If you see what you're doing is art, then that's what you need to go with that.
00;33;23;04 - 00;33;23;11
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;33;23;27 - 00;33;39;18
Rob Lee
I think that's a good spot for us to stop with the real questions and I want to open it up to these rapid fire questions. They they're ridiculous. I'm just letting you know, one or two of them are ridiculous. The rest of them are good. So, you know, don't overthink them. And, you know, brevity quickly.
00;33;39;22 - 00;33;41;12
Abdul Ali
By the way. So be careful.
00;33;41;24 - 00;33;49;25
Rob Lee
Gravity is key. Brevity is key. If you were to sum it up in three, three words, what is Baltimore's cultural identity?
00;33;51;17 - 00;34;23;24
Abdul Ali
Yeah, I don't know that Baltimore's identity can be summed up into three words, because there is a challenge. There are so many. Baltimore's right. There's the Baltimore of the natives and folks who've been here for generations. And they have grandparents who work the steel mills. And they are part and parcel of, you know, Baltimore and all of the redlining and all this sort of suppression that happened and racial racism and things like that.
00;34;24;00 - 00;34;58;16
Abdul Ali
And then there are lots of transplants like myself, right? Who I did not grow up here, but I, I moved to Baltimore like 16, I think, and then finished high school and then left and then came back. So I think Baltimore is an evolving city. I think that the way that DC was in the late nineties and it was kind of being primed for commercial interests and that was happening to Baltimore.
00;34;59;11 - 00;35;27;28
Abdul Ali
And I would love to see the native Baltimoreans to be not just woke, but to be a part of the decision making. Because if you're not a part of the decision making, you know, it's like you're going to wake up one day and be like, Oh, wow, this all happened, you know, while I was sleep or, you know, and then we'll be reacting, as we always do, you know, this is bullshit, you know?
00;35;28;20 - 00;35;28;28
Speaker 4
But.
00;35;29;22 - 00;35;58;05
Abdul Ali
You know, so it's kind of like, yeah, the writing is on the wall. Penn Station is being renovated, $100,000. Druid Hill Park, a $300 million renovation. So what does that mean for the folks who live around there, for the real estate, for the creatives, the culture of the that more money population that's going to move in and try to suppress some of the more homegrown culture, you know.
00;35;58;06 - 00;36;29;18
Abdul Ali
So I think that, you know, Baltimore is definitely a city in flux and we need to tap into our power, you know, and, you know, think of all of those great civil rights leaders and all those folks, you know, who came out of Baltimore and artists and and really excite, you know, to help define what that new narrative is, because time only moves forward to.
00;36;29;18 - 00;36;32;14
Speaker 4
Yeah, I agree.
00;36;32;14 - 00;36;41;11
Rob Lee
If so, starting tomorrow, the day is 25 hours instead of 24. What do you do with the extra hour sleep?
00;36;41;11 - 00;36;42;11
Abdul Ali
Of course. Look.
00;36;43;08 - 00;36;59;14
Rob Lee
That's an honest answer. I appreciate that. I know. Okay. This is this is one of the ridiculous ones. What is a nonprofit or development or grant or art term that you're like, we use this too much. We this is this needs to go.
00;37;01;10 - 00;37;02;02
Abdul Ali
Interesting.
00;37;02;08 - 00;37;03;11
Rob Lee
Because I hasn't really one.
00;37;04;00 - 00;37;13;07
Abdul Ali
Oh, does that that's a great question actually so I know that you know impact you know it gets a.
00;37;13;07 - 00;37;15;28
Speaker 4
Lot of activity.
00;37;16;29 - 00;37;22;02
Abdul Ali
And sometimes it's like how about, you know, the impact of these these hands, right?
00;37;22;05 - 00;37;27;00
Speaker 4
Like I literally I may do it.
00;37;27;00 - 00;37;46;03
Rob Lee
I may not. I've joked with a few of the guests I've had on. I was like, I want to do an interview. In-Character As a super pretentious, they use using all of the terms. I say yeah you know I'm one of represent the impact of the East Baltimore diaspora just like in the spaces of places that we're in and just I haven't said anything but I've said all of.
00;37;46;03 - 00;37;47;04
Speaker 4
The all.
00;37;47;04 - 00;37;47;19
Rob Lee
The approved.
00;37;47;19 - 00;37;57;03
Abdul Ali
Terms. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. There's so many terms. Oh I mean.
00;37;57;15 - 00;37;58;27
Rob Lee
I mean impact is a good one though.
00;37;59;17 - 00;38;21;01
Abdul Ali
Yeah. I mean it's weird like, you know, folks, you know, they have their, their own funding priorities, you know, I mean, some of them are useful, you know, and, you know, others, you know, I just ridiculous. But I'm trying to think what is the ridiculous escaping me right now? You know, it's.
00;38;21;01 - 00;38;33;02
Rob Lee
Funny, though, when, like you said, they're the ones can be used, the ones that are useful. It's funny that like for me I've noticed a few more pop into my house. This should not be a part of my lexicon. I know.
00;38;33;02 - 00;38;34;07
Abdul Ali
Which ones have you noticed?
00;38;34;20 - 00;38;36;05
Speaker 4
Um. Mm.
00;38;36;05 - 00;38;57;18
Rob Lee
I'm trying to think because I think I'm in kind of that similar spot as you where I've said spaces more, which my, my partner, she looks at me and she's like, What the hell are you talking about? Or, you know, through the lens of blah, blah, blah. She's like, This is not how you talk. I was like, Look, she's like, your staff is going to get bigger, your glasses are going to get tinier.
00;38;58;02 - 00;39;27;27
Rob Lee
I was like, What are you saying? But yeah, that's, that's really what it is. But I think part of it is byproduct of who you're having conversations with a lot. But definitely impact is one of those because. Exactly, because it's almost like paraphrase some times or you mean something else, like it's one term I'm blanking on. But when they talk about the prioritization of or allocation of resources and so on, I'm like.
00;39;28;05 - 00;39;50;24
Abdul Ali
I think this is probably yeah, my God, yes. And I don't I don't think people know how to use it, but oh, my gosh, people are screaming, well, let's, let's have an equity statement, equitable and like, how about you have an equity history? You know, let's, let's do that. Let's do that. Yeah.
00;39;51;05 - 00;39;55;05
Rob Lee
I immediately thought of Yosemite Sam just taking like shots.
00;39;55;05 - 00;39;56;25
Speaker 4
Why did you.
00;39;56;25 - 00;40;00;26
Abdul Ali
Do the plan? You know, everything is strategic.
00;40;01;00 - 00;40;22;22
Rob Lee
We're looking at alignment. Yeah, and those were mostly sort of synergistic business terms are popping up in this sort of like area. It's just like this isn't like, realize who you're talking to. Like, it's not to say the folks that may be applying for grants that are connecting with these nonprofits don't know about these terrorists. But this is not the language for your audience.
00;40;22;22 - 00;40;29;03
Rob Lee
You know, in many instances, it's like people know what they're they know what they're doing. So here's the last one I got for you.
00;40;29;10 - 00;40;29;29
Abdul Ali
Bilingual.
00;40;31;24 - 00;40;33;03
Speaker 4
Right?
00;40;33;03 - 00;40;44;17
Rob Lee
So here's the last one I got for you. Creative and cultural work takes a lot of energy. How do you fuel what is your go to meal? How do you how do you stay like energized to do the good work in?
00;40;44;24 - 00;41;06;22
Abdul Ali
I worked out at least four times a week. I try to eat good cleanly. I try to surround myself with good people, good energy, who care about themselves because, you know, they say birds of a feather. Right. So it's like I'm trying to, you know, live cleanly. I can't be hanging out with folks who want to eat at McDonald's all the time or something.
00;41;06;22 - 00;41;20;23
Abdul Ali
You know, I want to hang out with people who want to go to the supermarket and can cook and do a meal exchange or you know, I just really enjoy good vibes, good people. That's another time, right? Vibes.
00;41;21;04 - 00;41;24;11
Speaker 4
Oh, my.
00;41;24;11 - 00;41;27;29
Rob Lee
Oh, I'm creating experiences.
00;41;27;29 - 00;41;35;15
Abdul Ali
That was such a vibe, you know, I don't know why I'm not in the nonprofit world. I feel like that's like that's become popular, like people.
00;41;35;22 - 00;41;40;01
Speaker 4
For sure the whole. But no.
00;41;40;01 - 00;41;59;22
Rob Lee
That's I like that. I usually ask people this, this question, like in terms of like, you know, artists. I got a friend who's a painter and he uses like most of the painters and now we're all kind of just dicks. He's like, we just send each other, like, weird means of different things. And I was like, okay, just interesting to hear about your your circle of friends and how they kind of, you know, the creatives that you're hanging out with.
00;41;59;28 - 00;42;20;21
Rob Lee
But definitely being around people who have those sort of similar interests and it makes sense. It makes it makes it works. It works. So with that, I want to thank you for for being on this podcast and to I want to invite and encourage you to tell the fine folks where to check you out, where to check out, thrive arts, all of that good stuff.
00;42;20;21 - 00;42;22;15
Rob Lee
The floor is yours.
00;42;22;27 - 00;42;55;12
Abdul Ali
Yeah. So please, you know, check out thrive arts at thrive dot org. I'm on most social media platforms and dual Ali ism, so yeah, that's why I try to make them all uniforms. The find me and also I co-host with a dear friend and colleague Helen Gunn a networking a monthly networking thing. Happy Hour, by the way. We're going to have that this Thursday at Busboys and Poets at 5 p.m..
00;42;56;14 - 00;43;09;25
Abdul Ali
And we have a Facebook page, I think it's called like Baltimore Freelance Happy Hour or something like that. So all of the ways to connect.
00;43;10;14 - 00;43;28;03
Rob Lee
Well, there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Abdul Ali for coming on to the podcast. And I'm Rob Lee, saying that there's art, culture, cultural workers, nonprofits, people helping you with the things that you need help with. I'll just put it that way. And and Bromley saying, there you go, truthiness. All right.
00;43;28;28 - 00;43;37;01
Speaker 4
Like.
