Esteban Whiteside: Merging Art, Activism, and Self-Expression

Swell AI Transcript: Esteban Whiteside.mp3
Rob Lee: And welcome to the Truth in This Art. Thank you for tuning in to conversations at the intersection of arts, culture and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, we embark on a journey into the vivid world of a self-taught painter whose canvases are not just reflections of brushstrokes, but resonate echoes of activism. A native of Asheville, North Carolina, he began with love and evolved into a visual provocateur, merging street art and politics to craft narratives that demand attention and spark change. Please welcome Esteban Whiteside. Welcome to the podcast.
Esteban Whiteside: Thank you. Thanks. Sorry. Thank you again for having me.

Rob Lee: Yeah. Thank you for for making the time to come on. And, you know, before we kind of get into the nitty gritty of the, you know, your work and that that part of the conversation, I want to, you know, peel the onion back and go to the beginning a little bit. What was one of those early like art experiences for you? Some people say maybe it's their first art experience. It might be something that this is what I feel like with the first art experience. But what was that early art experience that had an impact on who you are today as an artist?

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, I mean, I don't know about like early art experience, but, you know, back in I would say like 2012, I was coming up here to DC. And it was really my first time ever, you know, being inside of a museum. I'd never been to, I'd been to like a couple small galleries here and there, like in Asheville, but never been inside like an actual museum. So I think the first museum we went into was National Gallery. And my mind was just blown. Had never seen anything like that before, and was just you know, immediately, you know, knew that I loved, I knew I loved art before that, I just wasn't really exposed to it. But in that moment, I knew like, you know, I'm gonna find myself in the galleries, and museums a lot more. And, you know, at that moment, I didn't necessarily, you know, want to start painting. But I think that was kind of just the start of me like really falling in love with art in general.

Rob Lee: Nice, nice. Having those moments. What was that moment when you first did a painting, worked on a painting intentionally? you know, I go back and, you know, I've mentioned this on this podcast before that I've done the writing, I've done the comics, I've done the painting and podcasting is the thing that stuck for me. So for you, what was that sort of like, all right, this is actually me doing this. This is, I'm going to, you know, put some time and energy and this is like my first painting, quote unquote.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Um, I think it was probably around 2013, 2014. And I wanted to get people stuff. I wanted to get my girlfriend something. I think it was her birthday. And I didn't have any money. And I remember just seeing like, I don't know if it was on Etsy or something. I remember seeing a simple Chevron design on Etsy. And I was like, you know what? I think I can do that. I can go buy a canvas for a couple of dollars. I'm just going to try it. some painter's tape, make it like, you know, you know, mess up free or whatever. So I went to Walmart, I got a little thin, super thin canvas, got the painter's tape, and it still came out pretty bad. But it was my first, you know, my first experience, like sitting down and like trying to make something nice and you know, she ended up really liking it. I still have that. We still have the piece today. But that was kind of really the beginning, you know.

Rob Lee: Nice. And one of the reasons I started laughing in my recording studio, I, you know, I had this this year is probably like 2016, where I was like I had this ambitious goal for me, at least, of trying to do one painting per month for the year. And I had through about, I think, eight of them. And I'm looking at like the first one that I did. Definitely, I was using a painter's tape to keep those lines straight. But it's like, what are these triangles? It looks like it almost looks like stained glass a little bit.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah.

Rob Lee: You know, I think I saw some of your work and I know I think it was the LED board, a big LED board in Baltimore, but also I think at NOMU NOMU. And, you know, so I want to hear it from you, because, you know, it's one of those things where you can read like, you know, artist descriptions, you can read, you know, sort of what people say about the artists or like sort of the official stuff. But how would you describe what you're artists about? I have some secondary questions under that, but I at least want to start there as far as the the essence.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, I mean, just, you know, breaking it all the way down, I would say, you know, my art is about, you know, building up the oppressed voices in this world, and then also equally trying to shame, you know, the forces of power that are doing the oppressing. So, I feel like any piece that I'm working on is either doing one or the other. It's either trying to give a voice to the oppressed, or it's trying to call out and expose the oppressors in the situation.

Rob Lee: So, so where, where does that, that come from? I mean, I have the, I think I have the answer. Cause I feel like we're, we're, we're skin folk here. But where does that, that, that come from and why was that sort of like, this is what I want to be like a central theme. Like it's, it's a provocateur thing going on there. I like that.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I always have, I've always been attracted and not attracted, but I've always like been, you know, kind of. I don't see my views as extreme, but the people that I look up to, I've always been attracted to the, I guess, more extreme views according to society. I don't know. I feel kind of helpless with a lot of the issues that are going on in the world. I want to do more than what I'm doing right now, but where I'm at and I feel like art is what I can do in the moment. Dealing with anything, I can make a painting, I can post it, and immediately people are going to see that message and they're going to know how I feel about the situation. Whether it does anything or not, it's more therapeutic. It makes me feel like I have some sort of a voice, even though not as big as I would like for it to be. It's something that I can do to not feel so helpless with all these situations and issues.

Rob Lee: I would imagine it can feel discouraging. It can feel frustrating. It could induce anger, sadness, and so on. And this desire, when there's any conversation around activism and who gets to be an activist, that's a whole different conversation. But there's something that comes from it. It's like, what is the byproduct of it? You know, I've unabashedly said this podcast was born out of someone talking real ill, you know, former president talking real ill about Baltimore. It wasn't, you know, about the Huns. It wasn't about the John Waters and the weirdness of it all. It was about the black folks here. That's really what that thing was. And whenever I hear those criticisms, I'm like, you really mean black people, but you can't say it to say what you mean. You know what I mean? Exactly. That gave me sort of the juice and the zeal to say, like, let's let's try to, you know, actually share our own stories versus having someone else just do it because they're not qualified. Yeah. So talk a little bit about, you know, sort of that that that moment where you were identifying sort of what that voice was going to be like. I see like some of the abstract work early on and then really concentrating and addressing, you know, the social and political issues like what sparked the shift? I see the tide one, which I'm kind of laughing at. I saw my dad says tired, which makes me really laugh, actually.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, definitely, you know, it's very vivid. Like I remember when I saw Michael Brown, you know, his body laying in the street. And, you know, I remember just thinking like how hot it was and how, you know, his parents must feel seeing that. And, you know, it was at that moment where I was just kind of like, you know, I don't I know I don't have the the artistic ability that I think I should have to be doing this type of work. But, you know, I got to start talking about something instead of just trying to make something that looks good. You know, I was like, for so long, I was all about sports. And, you know, it was all about, it was just all of my whole life was circled around sports. And then when college was over, you know, there was no more sports. And it was kind of like, like, what's, you know, like, what's next? you know, art kind of filled that void. And then taking that one step further, it's like once I once I saw Michael Brown's body land in the street, it was kind of like the first moment that I wasn't involved, you know, wasn't involved in sports. And I'm in the middle of this, like, desert kind of trying to figure out, you know, what I'm about and who I am. And, you know, it felt to me like the first time I really, like, picked my head up and looked around at how people that look like me are really living. And that's what I decided I wanted to try to represent.

Rob Lee: It's important to have that moment where you realize that this is the direction I want to take this. This is how I want to go about it. This is what my part of the discourse, the conversation, the, I guess, awareness around these, these different topics. And, you know, sometimes that is the way to get it across. Like, you know, when a comedian is like, I'm going to, you know, all of this whole set's going to be about this subject matter. And suddenly, oh, we now recognize that we're talking about police brutality because now it's repackaged in a different way. But it's like this has been going on forever. We've been saying it like really like intentionally, like, yo, they're beating up Negroes like hotcakes. It's wild. But you have to do it in sort of a different way that's more digested and more palatable. And yeah, I think that that is something about using art as a vehicle for, you know, having that, like, you know, during this period in which I've been a podcaster and doing this, you know, as far as the art pod, but also I used to do a news podcast and I've done it over the, I was doing it, uh, starting back in 20, 2009. So we had all types of stuff covered. And I was like, how am I going to take this, you know, how I'm going to have this perspective and be really honest about it. And also have sort of like what my experience is being a six foot four black man. You know what I mean? And I found that, and this was specific, you know, when this podcast started, when I had a few posts about what happened with George Floyd and all of that crime and that murder and all of it, I can't believe you would say something like that. I was like, oh, oh, right. I can't be black right now. I can't have this experience right now. OK. It's interesting when it's coming from from folks who kind of like what you do and like your perspective, right? Do you encounter any of that with sort of the subject matter and the voice within your work where someone's like, I dig what your work is? I don't know if that one, that message is a little, a little aggressive there. Tell me about that.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, I mean, I definitely I definitely get that a lot. I was approached by a gallery not too long ago, and they were kind of like, well, yeah, the majority of your work wouldn't fit, but we see pieces kind of here and there that would work. And I'm like, that's not who I am. But as far as collectors or whatnot, I feel like, my work is kind of, you know, it's polarizing and it kind of weeds out a lot of those type of conversations, you know, before I even get a chance to talk to the person like, you know, I was at an event this past weekend. you know, and it was, I could just tell that certain pieces made people uncomfortable. But it made me feel like I'm doing the right thing. And that's what I want. Like, I want, you know, I want my work to make you either feel empowered. And like, yeah, like somebody, somebody speaking for me, or I want you to feel like, damn, like, you know, I'm not doing enough. You know what I'm saying? So, um, So yeah, I mean, I definitely, I definitely get that. But I definitely got it more from, like the galleries and, you know, art dealers type, you know, then then from actual collectors, I think.

Rob Lee: Do you do in your experience? And I mean, I have sort of the I feel like I'm going to do a Patreon only podcast because it's spicy sometimes. But, you know, there is this sort of viewpoint on sort of what black art is. You know, it's kind of like, can we just attach ourselves to this person's name? I got I got one of those white sides, you know?

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah.

Rob Lee: And it's like, I don't really care about the work, but it's good to say that I have one of them. Is that something that you've noticed? Or am I just, you know, off the mark there?

Esteban Whiteside: I mean, no, I think, you know, I think there's certain pieces that, like, people feel like it's like, I want a piece. from Esteban for me, but these pieces are much safer. And those pieces tend to go quicker than the pieces that I feel super strong about. I feel like every now and then I just kind of take a break from making political work and I might just do something that feels good. And then, you know, those pieces, people are kind of more like, like, you know, like, why don't you do more of that? You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, that is that's not who I am at all. That's just like me walking out, taking a smoke break, you know, from what's really going on, basically. So I don't go crazy.

Rob Lee: No, I hear you.

Esteban Whiteside: But I've definitely, you know, from galleries and whatnot, like my first gallery I was represented by was in Brooklyn, Richard Beaver's gallery, which I don't have a problem. you know, saying his name or whatever. But, you know, it was like he would brag about me to certain collectors and be like, you know, I got this real provocative artist and look at it, look at his work. But then when it came to Palestine and Israel and I started making work, speaking up for Palestinians, then it was like, bro, what are you doing? Like, you got to calm down. Like, Are you anti-Semitic? And I'm like, homie, like, you know, you can't be like showing me off as like this artist who, you know, you're so proud of and you like, you know, he tells it like it is. And then, you know, someone comes to you and is like, this makes me uncomfortable. And then you're starting to like check me and tell me what to post and what not to post. So like, you know, I've dealt with it. Definitely.

Rob Lee: That that that's definitely a topic, you know, that specific one, you know, that you say something that's not on the side that you're supposed to be on, or you have like your own thought, whatever it might be, it's like we have the approved line items, talking points about this particular issue. And if it doesn't, you know, attach to that, then nah, son, you can't do that. And I can say this, you know, from from my vantage point. And, you know, I want to I got a few more questions I want to hit you with before we get to, you know, the sort of last the last few. There's one where, you know, I was you know, I don't really like to reveal who I have coming up for interviews. And I try to run because I try to be as independent as possible. You know, this podcast isn't free, but also, you know, I'm very selective of who I try to do business with from a funding perspective because I'm still doing the work. It's not free. Right. So there are times where unsolicited people will hit me in the DMs. Wow. I don't know why you asked them this person this question in that way. I would ask them this. Oh, you should get a microphone and start a podcast. Says everyone's doing. Yeah. And it's always sort of this, it's people who don't look like me or you, who are telling me how to be a better version of what me and you are. Yeah. Yeah. That question was like, wow, wow. It's one of those weird shots towards like authenticity. You know, I've got the thing like I'm born and bred from Baltimore. Oh, you're not from here. It's like, all right. What do you want? What do you want from me? You want to you want to see my you want to see my record? You see, you know, what do you want? I don't know. I get that. So talk a little bit about your sort of some of those those influences. Like I see Bearden, I see Emory Douglas, Milton Avery. So talk about like, you know, I think. When we have influences, right, we might nip something from them. And it's like, I'm taking this, but I'm making it my own. But this is directly who the influence is. Like, I not steal, but I steal. I steal from better interviewers than me, whether it be like questions. Oh, that's a good one. Let me flip that. Or how they go about things. you know, like a Charlie Rose sort of move or what have you. For you, like how do you go with some of those those references and like what are you maybe taking from them that you've worked into your own approach?

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, I mean you know I feel like Like, I can look at a painting of mine and I can, like, break down exactly where every influence and every, you know, part came from because, you know, I'm really heavily influenced by a lot of artists and it always changes. But early on, you know, one of my first jobs up here in D.C. was working at the Phillips Collection. And I remember one of the first rooms I was in was Jacob Lawrence, his Migration series. And, you know, like, it was just kind of like, It looked very simple compared to a lot of the other work that was in the Phillips to me at the time, but the message was more powerful than anything I had seen. And so, you know, that hit me like a ton of bricks. It was like, You don't need to be so focused on trying to make something look a certain way. Focus on the message. Focus on having that powerful message and having it mean something. I could draw something that looked exactly like something, or I could draw something exactly where I'm at, and that might inspire other people who want to be artists but don't have that starting point. I feel like Basquiat was another starting point for me. Just seeing his work, I was kind of like, wow, you know, I feel like I could be an artist because I feel like I could do that. And then you try to do it like Basquiat and you realize he's a genius and it don't work that way. But, you know, a lot of those people, like even like Milton Avery, the work seemed so simple that it was like an entry point and like a starting off point for me to be like, you know, you can do this because you can do that. If you can do as good as they're doing, then you figure out your own style, figure out your own messages. But aesthetically, it's a starting point. You can move forward. So a lot of those people I was in these rooms with just guarding the art at the Phillips Collection, and I was copying them as much as I could. And then eventually, that transformed into me incorporating my own style into a lot of these pieces. Yeah.

Rob Lee: Thank you. Wow. I like that. It's theft. It's gentleman theft. Let's just call it that. For sure.

Esteban Whiteside: For sure. I feel like everyone steals. It's just who can, you know, who can put their spin on it to make it not look so, uh, not like, like you just stole it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know how to say that the right way, but.

Rob Lee: You got to change something, bro.

Esteban Whiteside: I see a lot of artists who like, you know, Basquiat is that starting off point for them. And they do Basquiat style work, but they haven't like filtered it through their self and then produced it. It's just straight Basquiat, you know what I'm saying? Or an attempt to be Basquiat. But, you know, I feel like You just got to, you know, take the influence and then, you know, filter it through yourself. And then whatever comes out, you know, you can kind of run with it.

Rob Lee: I like that. I agree with that wholeheartedly. It's something about those 1985s. I don't know. We're in the same, same group. So being self-taught, like, you know, how do, how differently do you approach your creative process now than like, you know, maybe a year ago, maybe two years ago? And, you know, are there any methods or routines that you've developed to kind of nurture your and refine your process?

Esteban Whiteside: Um, what was the first part of that again? Sorry. Yeah.

Rob Lee: Here's a two part question. Sorry. Um, first, the first part is, um, you know, as a self-taught artist, like how, how you, uh, like, um, approach your creative process and how has that like changed from maybe a couple of years ago to like, to like now?

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Um, so now, you know, I'm still, whenever I'm, you know, thinking about a piece or whatever, like I just keep a note. book or keep paper around me all the time just to write down ideas. And then in the past, I used to just go straight to canvases, like raw, and try to do something off raw motion. And then it never turned out exactly how I wanted it. And I ended up wasting a lot of paint and a lot of supplies. So now, having an iPad, I'll do the whole painting on the iPad, the color of every piece in the painting. before I get into it, you know, just so I can like save supplies, save the work, you know. So my process now is really, you know, sketching first. If I like the sketch, the sketch goes to the iPad, you know, I refine it on the iPad and then, you know, then to the canvas. So before I was kind of just, you know, I didn't know, like, you know, I thought like a lot of artists just kind of went straight to the canvas. Emerson did their thing and, you know, it took me like wasting a lot of paint to be like, no, they, they, they plan it out very carefully. And they don't do, they don't waste a whole, they don't waste a hundred dollars worth of paint, you know, trying to figure out what they want to do. So that's been one way I've kind of refined, you know, the practice and yeah. And, and then also just kind of switching styles and going back from, um, working on canvas to like working on wood and then also working on like sculptures. I kind of like alternate through the three and it kind of keeps me not feeling, you know, kind of bored with any medium or any kind of style that I'm doing.

Rob Lee: So being able to kind of go between different styles, different mediums, that enables you to take a little bit of that break from it to get back to it. It's almost like when you're in the gym, you're doing like a workout plan. It's like, all right, I'm tired of these curls. Let me do this.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. And then, you know, something always naturally pulls me back into the, you know, into a different type of work that I'm doing. Like, you know, I'll be working on And it was just for a while, I'll go see a show somewhere and see a really dope sculpture. And then I'm like, man, I got to get back to doing some sculptures. It just kind of alternates from one to the other. Yeah.

Rob Lee: Yeah, I think there's there's service in that where, you know, I do this podcast most of the time, but I also have a movie review podcast. And, you know, being able to kind of dive back into that, like it's not as it's structured, but structured in a different way than this is. So I'm able to kind of like take sort of the reps and doing this and apply the sort of podcasting skills to the movie one. And the movie one requires me just to be like a movie critic and just like a person that's just diving back into and like reviewing movies and really taking a critical lens to it. And they they kind of serve each other because I'm not able to interview the filmmaker. So I always have questions like, oh, this could be a question I can ask a filmmaker in a podcast and ask them on the truth in this art later. So they serve each other. And I always have that notepad out as well. I mean, I got something I got something to write for me all the time.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. All times. I feel like I'm going to miss the golden idea if I don't. I even have a pocket full of acrylic markers and colored pencils, and I never do anything with them. I just, every morning, got 20 things in my pocket. And then all day long, I'm like, man, I got to be ready. And then I usually don't use them, but I will be ready.

Rob Lee: The thing that I hate is I have like the little one, a little, the little fake, it's like, because I'm bougie, right? It's either a Japanese import or something German, but it's the little tiny notepad with the wild lines on it. And I was like, and the thing is the paper, that's really good. The notepad is really good. My pen game needs to improve. I'll do it. I'm scratching to try to get, you know, the pen light to warm up so I can actually write with it. And then the idea is gone. It's just out of here. And sometimes it might be, you know, like I said, you know, when I came across your stuff, like, I think I was already following you on Instagram, but I was out and I saw like, I think I saw either either a piece of yours at NomuNomu and then also the somewhere else and someone brought you up. And I was like, that's three times in one day. I got to interview this dude. That was literally what it was. And I took the note down. And that's that's kind of how it is. But definitely having having something to capture the idea and capture it in its rawest form, like. You know, I was doing the whole Austin Kleon thing like earlier in the podcast, like sort of arc. And I remember he had mentioned something about like editing in the digital thing, editing in like the iPhone or what have you. But he's like, I always put my initial notes on scrap paper because I want to have the rawest form in there. Like I might have crossed it out for a reason. But if I have the more refined version of it, my process is somehow missing in that that whole like the genesis, the ideas, all of that's missing. Yeah. So I got, I got two last, like two real, two last real questions. So I read about like a solo show, right? So talk a little bit about that experience and preparing for an exhibition and sort of like that, that experience.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Well, I had a solo show last year. Well, two years ago, at home in DC, and then last year, I had a solo show in Chicago at Cherry Mountain Arts. But, you know, the solo show at home, it was really like my first, it's kind of like my, it was, it was, really my first solo show that I've put together over a couple years. And it kind of happened because I was with Richard Beaver's Gallery. We were supposed to have a solo show the first year, then COVID hit. And then so that moved that pushed that out. So I had all this work. And then the second year, I decided to speak up on Palestine, which didn't know that was a red line. I was from, you know, from North Carolina. I didn't even know any Jewish people. I didn't I didn't know. So I was making work freely, like, oh, what's the problem? And, you know, he just completely stopped. stop pushing the work. So I had worked from like really two years that I was supposed to have shows that was just sitting here in the studio. So I got out of my contract with Richard Beaver's Gallery right before the show at home. And, you know, the show at home was basically like I felt like it was like a freedom celebration. Like I was so happy to be out of the contract. And I was so happy to be showing work again in D.C. because for two years, you know, I didn't show anything in D.C. and also was so restricted that I was like basically like in a conservatorship or something like Britney Spears was in. I couldn't do nothing. So for two years, I just felt like handcuffed. So that show was just It was just a lot of fun. I invited everybody that, you know, all of my friends that were around here and everybody that was like, you know, when are you going to show again in DC? So it was just, it was just like a, to me, it was like a coming out party of just like, you know, being free from the gallery and being able to show exactly what I wanted to show and doing what I do, what I want to do from, you know, from that point on. So that show was like really special to me. Cause I feel like it was like, a show that was supposed to happen for a couple of years, and it finally did. I was really happy to just show some stuff.

Rob Lee: Yeah, that's so that's a good segue into this sort of like final real question. And remember, we got those rapid fire ones. So throughout this this conversation, you know, we got some gems, I think, you know, folks are really listening. You get some gems. So lastly, I want to really be intentional about sort of the advice component. You know, here's the legit gem part. Like, What advice would you give like an artist who's, you know, self-taught, who's going to say, look, I'm going to do that Esteban White side thing. I'm going to do this whole thing to make my work just like it is. So, you know, they're starting out, they're self-taught or what have you, but they're using sort of their artistic expression. to comment on social, political, you know, that sort of like realm. What advice would you give them that you think is like, that would serve them really well if they're, you know, really like leading with message first? Like art is great doing that stuff, but really sticking to their guns and their message. What advice would you give them?

Esteban Whiteside: I mean, my advice, I guess, would be You know, you're going to have to search to find your people. you know, everybody's not going to like your stuff. And, you know, I guess you need to decide early on, like, do you want to do you want to make a lot of money or do you want to you want to, you know, be about something, you know, and maybe you make money as a byproduct of that. But, you know, you can't really go into it trying to do both. You know, you can't go into it being like, I want to be like Malcolm X and I also want to be super-duper rich. You've got to decide on one or the other, and maybe both happen, but early on you need to make a decision because if you start off all political and then you realize this is kind of a lonely road and a lot of people might not like the work, you're not making as much money as these artists who are making Target-type art. you know, like, you know, at that point you can't, like, cross over and then be like, okay, I want to make this art that, like, everyone's loving and, you know, you can't. do it. So I feel like, you know, early on, you need to realize like what your end goal is, and plan to the end. And also, you know, if you want to use your work to be an activist, and you want to use your work to be political, you got to understand what that comes with. And it might be lots of months without selling anything. And, you know, it might be, you might, you know, you might have, you might find the right person that can do a lot with your work, but you just got to be you know, prepared to stand on what you believe in. And, you know, that might not be the most financially, I don't know what the word is, might not be the best thing for your pockets.

Rob Lee: No, I hear you. I think that's I think that's a really good message. And just to dovetail, as we wrap up on this portion of the pod, you know, from the vantage point of a podcaster and I would imagine it applies everywhere, whatever it is, the thing that you do, however you go about it, you know, make that conscious effort to do that. That's what the thing is you're doing. And I think a lot of folks and I was having this conversation yesterday with a friend of mine who's an artist based in New York. And we were talking about sort of some of the things we do chasing that dollar. And I saw so many podcasters when things started to blow up. I'm going to bite off exactly what I think Joe Rogan is doing. It's like, well, you're not Joe Rogan. Mm hmm. You're like, do you know the secret sauce behind that? He was he was on TV for like 20 years. You have seen for a long time. And it's like you your podcast about paperclips. That's that's that's the thing that's going to work. And it's like, if that's the thing that you do, do it. But, you know, people who are, I guess, sort of experts in the area, experts in the field, they're going to be able to make that reference and really pull apart what you're doing. So do something that's reflective and intentional as it relates to who you are and what you value. That's that's the thing, you know? Yeah. All righty. Let's see. I got I got four rapid fire questions for you. As I tell everybody, don't overthink these. And it's funny because folks will get on and say, oh, rapid fire. I don't know what the questions are. And then they're like, man, that was easy. I was like, what are we doing? Here's the first one again. Don't overthink them. Whatever comes to mind is what comes to mind. All right. Who is the smartest person you know? My dad. What was the last movie you watched? The Reverend. Nice. If you could, if you could star in a TV show, what would it be? What would it be? What would it be about?

Esteban Whiteside: If I could star in a TV show, it would be like the show How to Make it in America. Me and like one of my best artist homies and just trying to make it.

Rob Lee: How to make it in this hour with kids and everything.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Trying to make it and also like not getting started until you're like 30.

Rob Lee: So like I said, we are the same age. Don't get me started. I've been doing this for like 15 years. I keep getting called and overnight, whatever.

Esteban Whiteside: You remember that show, how to make it in America?

Rob Lee: Yeah. Cause uh, well, Kate Cuddy was in there, right?

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, man. That show was so, was so good and so dope. And like, I feel like it just, it kind of flew under the radar for a lot of people.

Rob Lee: And then it's one of those things you end up revisiting. Someone's going to reboot it. And it's like, I don't know. All right, this is the last one. So this this one is going to be challenging because I know painters, artists, they get really caught up in this. But let's say you're limited to your three most used colors. So, you know, which of those three colors or name what the colors are and which one you would remove and what would you replace it with? So let's say you got three colors. You're going to take one out and you're going to replace it. So what are your three colors? What are you going to remove? What are you going to add?

Esteban Whiteside: My three colors are Carolina blue, emerald green, and then brown. And then I got to take one out and add one? Yes. Then I guess I would take out the emerald and I would add red.

Rob Lee: Okay. I see. You know, that's a really good answer because I can, I can see it, you know, Carolina blue, obviously.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Most of my work. Yeah. A lot of, well, not most of it, but a lot of my work has Carolina blue in it. That's my favorite color for sure.

Rob Lee: Oh yeah. And you can't do black people without the color brown, you know? Right. It's just like, we have this new technique of mixing colors to make black. It's like, you can just use brown, bro.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah. Just use brown, man. It's easy.

Rob Lee: I mean, we come in different shades, but it's brown at the root. Yeah.

Esteban Whiteside: So a little brown and a little black, a little brown, a little white. You got everything.

Rob Lee: Let's not paper bag test it now. Alrighty, so that's pretty much it for the podcast. And one, I want to thank you for coming on and making the time to be on this podcast. This has been a lot of fun chatting with you. And two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can follow you, where they can check out your work, website, social media, all that good stuff. The floor is yours.

Esteban Whiteside: Yeah, so my Instagram is Esteban.Whiteside. My website is EstebanWhiteside.com. I got a print drop in on the 30th. So if you're in the market for a print, got that coming on the 30th. And yeah, that's about it. I just want to tell you, I really appreciate that you're bringing me on here. It was a great conversation. And yeah, man, thank you again.

Rob Lee: And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Esteban Whiteside for coming on and sharing a bit of his story with us. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.