Exploring Creativity, Sustainability, and Diversity in Design Journalism with William Hanley, Editor-in-chief at Dwell Magazine
Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today I am delighted to be in conversation with my next guest, a Brooklyn, New York based journalist and critic who's written about art, design, urbanism, and media culture for a number of international publications. He is the editor in chief at DuWell Magazine. Please welcome William Henley.
Rob Lee:Welcome to the podcast.
Bill Hanley:Hey, Rob. How's it going? Good to see you. And, Yeah. I go by Bill mostly.
Bill Hanley:Bill it is.
Rob Lee:Bill and Rob's Excellent Adventure. Can we do that now? Sure. It does. It doesn't work.
Rob Lee:It doesn't work. So, you know, thank you for for making the time to come on here. And I'm glad we're able to, you know, have this have this happen. I mean, we were chatting a little bit and I've mentioned I mentioned that brief conversation that you and I had a while back. I was like, man, major people actually know about my podcast.
Rob Lee:I was like, I can't wait to talk to bills. This is gonna be great. So, you know, before we get into like the main crux of the conversation, this this is this is usually a different way I start. I only ask on occasion. What has been the highlight of your day thus far?
Bill Hanley:The highlight of my day today? What happened today? There was a couple of, well, you know, there were a couple of cracks of daylight in my meetings, which was super nice. It's always nice to, have that when it's properly spring in New York and one can go outside. And even though I just did the 5 barrel bike tour, a 40 mile ride around the city yesterday, I decided I was going to get back on the horse and ride into the office, which was well worth it given the weather.
Bill Hanley:Maybe in denial about how, like, sore I'm gonna
Rob Lee:be tomorrow, but hey. That's good. I, I haven't been like, I took, like, 3 or 4 days off of the gym, and I've been, like, doing a lot of chest exercises. And as I get closer and closer to 40, which one of my friends reminded me of on this past Friday when we went out for drinks, they were like, oh, yeah. We're getting closer to 40.
Rob Lee:And I was like, oh, that hangover is gonna be there tomorrow. You know that? And I'm sore from all of the work, you know, so it was like both things at the same time. Yeah.
Bill Hanley:I I didn't don't think I properly knew what a hangover was until I was over 40. But, yeah, I'm definitely not like a full on, like, recladd, cycling enthusiast. I'm more of a my sort of primary mode around the city. I don't know if I'd say that, you know and I think, like, you know, New York's bicycle infrastructure has a lot of ways to go, but, you know, we're much better than we used to be when I moved here.
Rob Lee:Well, thank you. Thank you. That's that's great. It's good to have, you know, kinda enjoy those little peaks of, sunlight, those cracks of sunlight. You know?
Rob Lee:So I, you know, I did the the sort of, like, sparse intro, and I wanna, like, you know, kind of start talking a bit about, like, some of your early, like, fascination and interest in journalism and writing, like, and and ultimately how some of those early experiences, shape where you're at and, you know, where you're at now, you know, with GLOW Magazine. Talk about that a bit, sort of that career trajectory and some
Bill Hanley:of those early experiences. I mean, it's almost a cliche to say it's totally accidental, but I definitely didn't, you know, I definitely wasn't, like, studying communications as an undergrad and applying to j school and things like that. I'm I'm ridiculously unqualified for this job. But, yeah. I don't know.
Bill Hanley:I mean, I have always gravitated toward, cultural production, the people who do it, the, you know, people making interesting stuff. That's pretty much it. And so, you know, I, as an undergrad, you know, studied literature, but with, you know, art history minor, but this was at the New School. Shout out to the New School. So I took a lot of, design history courses, sort of cross listed with Parsons as well.
Bill Hanley:And so that's where I, like, sort of became aware of design as a discipline. Like, you know, I'd always sort of, you know, understood. You know, when I was a little kid, I was fascinated by architecture. I'm one of those kids who wanted to be an architect when they grew up, and so yeah. I don't know.
Bill Hanley:I finished school, and, like, you know, I basically sold coffee and went to rock shows for years. But it, I mean, but, I was what I did before school too. But, you know, that, led to, you know, I I thought maybe I would go in an academic route. I was really, you know, interested in kind of the history and theory of the stuff. The the history and theory is sort of, weighing on the stuff that people were making now.
Bill Hanley:But I, like, you know, couldn't imagine myself, pulled up in the library for the next 6 years. And then, like, you know, and my friends who are in academia, like, sort of watching their sort of career trend fold. I was just like, wow. Is this the hustle that I will? So I think my metabolism is, like, a little too fast for it.
Bill Hanley:So I, you know, events I gravitated toward journalism because I started writing nickel and dime art reviews and other things, and just kind of got a bug for, like, oh, someone's gonna pay me, not very much. Someone's gonna pay me to go see something interesting right now and explain to, whoever's reading this, like, why I think it's worth their time. And so, like, that ability to kind of narrate my own kind of adventures, looking at exciting things, was really what brought me into the field. I started out covering visual art with a focus on the digital media and, you know, this was in the mid aughts, so there wasn't a long history yet of, you know, the Internet and what art meant on the Internet and how, you know, people were consuming that, preserving it, but also using the conventions of, like, this relatively new technology to make work. And I was just fascinated by, like, how someone was sort of translating things that were already, like, you know, artifacts even though they were only 10 years old into, like, kind of a new vocabulary for making work.
Bill Hanley:So, yeah, I was a staff writer at Rizome, the new museum's digital media art portal for a little bit in the mid aughts. But, yeah. So, it was really a kind of roundabout that I came to writing about design and architecture. I, Yeah. I guess the most sort of relevant experience there was jumping on board architectural record, a very sort of long standing I mean, the longest standing, architecture publication out there, and, which is sort of funny.
Bill Hanley:This completely naive kid going into, like, this really august institution that had some really, like, awesome editors there who were, like, willing to coach and willing to, you know, put up with my lack of understanding of how a building stands up. And, so, yeah, that really became you know, I never studied this in any formal way. I'm not at all, like, sort of connected to the, grad school networks So the train designers or the train design academics and things like that. But I did learn a lot and meet a lot of people in practice doing that, doing that job and actually going to see work in the real world. So, you know, I hope I've, you know, become something of an advocate for the layperson who's, like, arriving and seeing whatever the space is and telling you what it's like to be there.
Bill Hanley:I mean, that seems so fundamental, but, like,
Rob Lee:so much writing about architecture is not that. That's that's great. And, and thank you. Thank you for walking us walking us through that a little bit. And this is a nice sort of follow-up question to it.
Rob Lee:So chiefly, I'm being very punny and very corny here. Chiefly, what does the role of the editor in chief at dwell entail? What what what do your, like, main responsibilities entail? And, you know, like, how do you view, like, what's your role with the magazine is?
Bill Hanley:Yeah. Sure. I've, you know, put together a pretty amazing team. I mean, 1st and foremost, like, you know, I it's really about sort of bringing in people who are going to bring in the perspectives that, you know, you want to that you think are worth putting in front of your readership. I mean, in front of your audience.
Bill Hanley:So from obviously, you know, photo and video are hugely important from us for us to, you know, all kinds of stories that we're telling, like, you know, whether it's at a grand scope or a, you know, that's short post on the site in a given day. Like, we have a really awesome batch of people who are making it happen. That sounds very golly gosh, but it is absolutely true. Like, that more than anything else that I do on a given day is, like, the most important. You know, I'm definitely not, yeah, I'm definitely not, the sort of cliched editor in chief making sort of top down decisions about what's going to be in the book, what's gonna be on the site on a given day.
Bill Hanley:I, you know, am more, hopefully, facilitating conversations among people who all have very, very different perspectives on what this should be and helping to synthesize referee, I don't know, whatever, whatever needs to be done to put together, like, really great packages. So, I mean, really, like, my responsive my chief responsibility is making sure that we have, like, the best team possible and, you know, helping them do really, really good work. Yeah. Then there's a lot of boring administration as well. But, that's, the part that I like about it is that.
Bill Hanley:But, you know, that's sort of my day to day. And, you know, thinking about, you know, thinking about what we're making in a editorial way in terms of, forthcoming packages, forthcoming issues, you know, what kind of media those look best in. We have a really rad group of, marketing people, who have, really built up, some great channels for all sorts of audiences from people who are a little bit on the periphery just getting into what we do, to people who are hardcore dwell fans, and, you know, figuring out how what we do will resonate with each of those audiences. So, you know, thinking about how what we're producing auditorially works, but also, like, the medium in which someone's going to consume it. Like, I've, you know, always been interested in contemporary technologies, and I think it's foolish to think that you can run an editorial department without thinking about the end product.
Bill Hanley:You know, whether that's, you know, from the UX side or from the engineering side, like, you know, working in lock step is really important. Like, our engineering road map lines up with our editorial road map, lines up with, what we're doing on the, marketing side so that we know that we're putting you know, we're not just making this editorial in the vac in a vacuum. We are doing it in a way that, is, in a way that is, going to reach people in a on a platform that's well tamped at the type of content that we're creating. It's a really boring answer, but that's, that's that's I spend my time thinking about that.
Rob Lee:No. I I think it, like, makes a lot of sense, and I appreciate you sharing that, in which it kind of brings you to these these sort of other, like, smaller bullet points in there. And, you know, I'm definitely going to ask about sort of the the mission because I think there's there's always sort of a mission there and then, like, how we kind of get there and what that might change and what that might look like when I look at like what I'm doing here, let's say in the first, you know, 50 episodes. Right. Of this podcast, 50 installments of this podcast, if I really stay super rigid to what I was doing of this is purely Baltimore, we and you wouldn't be having this conversation, you know, and being able to kind of grow up but still stay within, I guess, a brand and what the ultimate the ultimate like spirit of what I'm doing is like I want to talk to people who do an interesting work and really get a sense of like, all right, what's happening here?
Rob Lee:Maybe someone will learn from it. And, you know, all I know is when I go to certain places like in Baltimore, I just keep seeing, like, magazine in there. I'm like, I got to talk to that guy. I got to talk to I got to talk to the developer. I got to make these conversations happen.
Rob Lee:That's really what it is to at least extend and broaden those conversations and broaden the creative community, like being able to connect those dots. That's ultimately what the mission of what I'm doing has grown into, has developed into.
Bill Hanley:That's one of the reasons that I was excited to see that you reach out. You know, I really like the fact that you're going and at it independently and that you're, you know, not beholden to, you know, old ways of doing things and, you know, that you can think about, you know, your audience in a way that isn't saddled with the baggage that some of the large publishers or networks, you know, would necessarily come with. So, you know, that's exciting. So I was happy to see that you reached out.
Rob Lee:Thank you so much. That that that's really, that's really cool to hear. So tell me about, like, the and and it may vary day to day, Or I'm, like, yelling at the coffee machine? What does that first 30 day, 30 hour, or I'm, like, yelling at the coffee machine? What does that first 30 day 30 hour 30, minutes of the workday look like for you?
Rob Lee:Oh, wow.
Bill Hanley:I am not, like, an early rising get up, go to the gym, whatever sort of person. I stay up late, and I wake up late. I, eventually groggily make my way to the coffeemaker while checking some combination of Slacks and emails and, whatever Twitter is throwing my way that morning. I kind of quit Twitter almost cold turkey in 20 16, but, obviously, I'm still there. But the, you know, these kind of, these kind of things, like, you know, rather, I guess, the everything that, you know, contemporary life throws at us in the morning, I suppose.
Bill Hanley:I try to, you know, get in a single dose, and then, yeah. I mean, it's usually on to, coffee, first of many throughout the day. I think, the first of many throughout the day. And then, I usually am doing, like, just kind of organizational stuff. It's when I take on, like, most of the admin things, then there's meetings for the next 8 hours, and then I'll usually work for, like, you know, whatever.
Bill Hanley:Do the actual creative things in the evening after I'm done with, done with dropping into various conversations about, things going on, the in at the at the company, both auditorially and otherwise. So it's, yeah, it's really uninteresting. Yeah. I I I'm not, like, the sort of person who's like, well, the first thing that I do is, like, make some smoothie you should know about or something. Like, I don't but, yeah.
Bill Hanley:I don't know. I, coffee, Internet, proceed with the rest of the day.
Rob Lee:And as you take a sip from the bug, I like that.
Bill Hanley:Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I should good caveat that it's, like, like, 5:30 in the evening too.
Rob Lee:And, so as as far as and maybe it might be the wrong nomenclature here, but as far as the sort of like editorial cycle. Right. Like, what is the most exciting part of that cycle for you? Is it, you know, sort of those introductory meetings of this is what we wanna cover for the next quarter, next month, or whatever that cadence sort of looks like? Or is it like there's these ignerves, this excited energy?
Rob Lee:We got everything going. Everything is rolling. Like, tell tell me about that.
Bill Hanley:I mean, it's really I mean, it's really, when we're in the early stages of a project, maybe we have, like, a theme or an idea, like, picked out, but then we're sitting in a meeting and someone just comes in with, like, this person or story or house somewhere that just seems to come completely out of nowhere. It's sort of like a like, woah. Where'd you get that kinda moment? Like, it's very, you know, we're, you know, not locked into something like covering, you know, luxury, high design, or, like, celebrities and things like that. So, you know, we have a pretty wide field of, things that we can play with from a storytelling point of view.
Bill Hanley:So I'm always encouraging everyone to go out there and, like, find relatively obscure things, like what's going on in x part of the world, like and, when someone comes back with, like, something truly amazing, like, young firms that don't have they they don't have PR. They don't have, like, you know, they're but they're, you know, building interesting stuff. I'd love to see that from, like, an architecture side or, like, you know, some person who, you know, has this great story about their own life that affects the way that we might think about, homes in general or our own homes specifically. Like, you know, really when someone comes back with something that has a really awesome idea at its core, like, you know, we can build a lot around that. So, you know, that's my favorite moment when, like, we're all sitting there and, like, I just have this, like, jaw drop moment.
Bill Hanley:Again, like, putting together the team is, like, the most important thing, like, because everybody has different specializations, different expertise, and, like, you know, different people and places that they know about. So, it's really cool when something truly surprising,
Rob Lee:but also really, really relevant comes in. That's that's fantastic. I am starting to think more and more. I ended up, applying for becoming a member of the National Black Journalists, National Association of Black Journalists. So I've been trying to think more and more like a journalist and more and more like, okay, you're kind of the full guy here.
Rob Lee:You know what I mean? It was like, what's your production schedule? Who are you want to talk to? What are the themes and so on? And some of those moments when you have a theme like, I did the I did this this month in April, I did this Jazz Appreciation Month and I tried to tailor a lot of the interviews in that way.
Rob Lee:And some of the interviews, they were like held specifically to be released during that month and some were like a little later. And it's like, I got to do it. I got to make it happen. And one included going down to New Orleans and getting an interview with the curator from the Jazz Museum. And I was like, this was unexpected, and I was, like, super excited and super jazzed.
Rob Lee:I was like, this is gonna fit in so well, but I'm definitely a person that was trying to have a plan. Like, I know 2 months out, these are the interviews they're done, but it's just still having that flexibility of recording in batch. And I was just like, this trip, this this traffic, not getting my coffee on time, none of that makes sense. None of it I care about, but getting this interview had me so excited. Just was like, this is great.
Rob Lee:This is what I'm doing this for. So sort of this blend of having a production calendar and kind of thinking through things, but also being able to have that flexibility to wedge something in there that fits, like, so perfectly.
Bill Hanley:Yeah. I mean, it's, it's the fun the discovery is the fun part. Right? I mean, that's, Yeah. I mean, if you're dedicating yourself to finding people doing exciting work in the space that you're interested in, like, you know, that's that's the big payoff is like, oh, this person's thinking about this way differently than I thought, or, like, the experience of whatever this person's doing just, like, totally made me reconsider some aspect of something that I think I know really well.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Oh, yeah. So talk about a little bit of the sort of, like, core values at at at dwell and, like, how, you know, the work now or or or how how your efforts and your team's efforts are working towards, like, that goal. And as, you know, it evolves, how we're how you're working towards that goal, those those core values.
Bill Hanley:Sure. I mean, I detest orthodoxy, and I we have as many core values as we have people on the team. You know? At the end of the day, this is, you know, you know, this the most successful products that we create are the results of, like, not having a hard line in terms of what we think is good or not. Whether that's in terms of, you know, style or some other aspect of a story.
Bill Hanley:I'll give you the bullet points, you know, in terms of, like, what we're trying to do here. I mean, you know, dwell is a magazine that in some ways are in a in one way dwell is a magazine that in, you know, some particular ways is rooted in 20th century modernism, particularly, Californian strain of 20th century modernism. And, you know, that was sort of radical in its early days, I guess. Like, in the McMansion nineties when all the boomers were building, you know, giant houses in far flung parts of the excerpts, like, or at least that was getting to be the thing. You know, a younger generation had an appreciation for this, you know, work, that like, the sort of mid century house that was, you know, kind of I don't know.
Bill Hanley:I mean, it seemed a little outre, even a little kitschy, maybe even, like, you know, this house has probably seemed a little depressing too in many ways at that point. But you could, you know, find them and buy them relatively expensively, and, you know, the renovation could become a labor of love, in terms of, you know, telling the story and kind of mythologizing, you know, this era and contextualizing this kind of space in that era. And, you know, as a student, I thought that that was amazing. Like, that's a very, very cool thing to be looking at and to be taking seriously, and, in that way. And then at the same time, like, I also love the kind of the, like, totally crazy nature of the magazine in its first couple of years.
Bill Hanley:I mean, the first issue is literally someone sitting in front of their house, which is, like, just like a black cube. It might not be a cube. It's like a black box looking thing. And, I'm like, what I reacted to in that, I didn't see that until many years later when I was, like, doing research, but I was certainly aware of the brand when I was younger. And, like, you know, that's, like, okay.
Bill Hanley:That is, I may never wanna replicate that for myself, but that, like, has introduced me to a sense of what's possible, like, what at home can be, what it could be. That was a particularly, like, the formal example, but the magazine always championed things that, like, you know, had some core idea that, you know, pushed at the edges of an idea of what pushed at the edges of what, a poem can or should be, and I hope we're carrying that through. I hope we're carrying that sense of introducing new possibilities to the audience, whether or not you'd ever wanna do it yourself. Like, so and then, you know, I mean, I always say that we sort of look to that 20th century modernism and, you know, kind of throw out the stylistic part and think about, you know, what is a contemporary version of some of the values that underpinned it. Like, you know, first and foremost, you know, we're focused on the humanistic aspect of design.
Bill Hanley:How is this, you know, working for how is this either solving a problem or framing the life of an actual person? You know, this is not architecture as sculpture in a vacuum as some design magazines out there will show it. This is about someone and the place where they live and the design decisions that went into their being able to live there. Just one sec.
Rob Lee:Thanks.
Bill Hanley:And the design decisions that went into their being able to make that a reality. Then, you know, there's something, progressive about it in the sense of it of, wanting to champion work that is forward looking not only in the sense of forward looking in the sense of anticipating what the future of the site is. That could be, you know, ecological. You know, we talk a lot about, you know, climate change and how we are building for climate change, how we were thinking about how climate change is going to change where we is going to alter where we can, should, or could build something, and or, the way that it fits into the sociopolitical context of where it is. Like, this is, you know, a question of affordability in most most most parts of the United States right now.
Bill Hanley:Like, does this house, you know, have a idea behind it that could relate to, you know, the anxieties of someone trying to find a place to live right now. I mean, like, at a moment when no one under 40 can afford to buy a house, what does dwell mean? Right? I mean, that's, you know, that's existential for us, and it's a question that I want to, you know, use as a motivating factor for finding really interesting ways of both, know, kind of putting hacks together to afford something right now, but also, you know, people who are, people from politicians to developers to architects to ingenious residents, you know, coming up with ways to live affordably or build affordably in, in a contemporary climate. And so, I mean, that's definitely, like, a consideration that, looms large for us.
Bill Hanley:And then finally, there's a sense of optimism. Right? I mean, this, you know, we're not, like, wringing our hands about these things so much as presenting possibilities for how design could make your life better, like, just fundamentally. And, that, you know, is something that I want to you know, I hope that the brand expresses even when we're talking about really tough stuff. Like, you know, I hope that the brand still expresses an a certain brightness, a certain idea that, like, design can make this better.
Bill Hanley:And that's sort of what I'd like to be our particular angle on a story about a home, that you don't necessarily find anywhere else. And hopefully not like and an optimism that's sincere, not an optimism that is, I don't know, whatever. An Instagram lifestyle version of optimism.
Rob Lee:That that was a great way to put it at the end right there.
Bill Hanley:I like that. Well, so yeah. I mean, I I don't you know, not every story that we publish adheres to each one of these things, you know, perfectly, but it's, you know, certainly the criteria that we, like, when we squint at something, we, you know, apply. And then within that, you know, I've really been trying to take us away from our association with 20th century modernism and look at contemporary design through a lens of, and look at contemporary design through a, I want us to show a range of, styles, household configurations, different geographies, different budgets, different scales. Like, I'd like, you know, whether it's a week on the website or an issue of the magazine for there to be a surprising mix of, different types of homes and different ways of living.
Bill Hanley:You know, you might have a giant budget thing that's really on the edge of energy efficiency, sustainability, and required a lot of resources to, you know, do that r and d, or you have something that's just an ingenious, like, you know, relatively inexpensive home that, required a really clever resident or really clever designer to pull it off. So, you know, I want us to make sure that we're showing, you know, a huge range of things. I'm not allergic to a little decor. I mean, I'm an arch minimalist, but, like, I'm not allergic to, you know, crown molding. But, the, but, you know, I just wanna be sure that there's a surprising range of things, and I hope the next thing you see is not at all like the last.
Rob Lee:That's that's that's really that's really good. That's really good. And I think the funny thing is in in that that answer, you answered, like, 2 other questions in that. So, like, you're, like, multitasking here. So shout out to you.
Rob Lee:Are you checking things off?
Bill Hanley:I'm used to asking the questions. I'm extraordinarily uncomfortable talking about, what we're up to. But, I'll I'll grill you on, what's next with the podcast later.
Rob Lee:I'm I'm here for it. So I got I got 2, like, sort of, like, last real questions, and then I have a few rapid fire questions. They're fun questions. No need to. That's actually the fun part or as someone described it, the B.
Rob Lee:S. Part of the podcast. So it'll be fun. I'm terrified. So so I'm reading, like, you know, and I and I actually when you were describing that that first issue, I was like, wow.
Rob Lee:That is the black house. That is the black voter right there. That's like, what, October 2000. So Duval has been around for, like, over 20 years. So, like how is the publication evolved?
Rob Lee:And you were touching on it definitely. How's the publication evolved over time and like where do you see it, you know, kinda shifting in the next, let's say, 3 to 5 years?
Bill Hanley:Well, I don't wanna speak for any of the, you know, previous editors. You know, they all had, really strong and exciting ideas about, you know, where this publication could or should go. And I haven't really talked with many of them about, like, what that actually looks like behind the scenes. So, you know, I don't wanna speak to the earlier history, but, you know, if dwell has always been associated with a certain type of house, I'll, you know, like, a box on a rock somewhere, like, you know, these sort of, like, glassy modernist homes and and and beautiful sites or, like, you know, just there there's a stylistic vocabulary that for that I think we have, unfairly to a degree become associated with if you look back through some of those issues. But because we were early champions of that kind of work and its resurgence in the early 2000, I think, you know, we have, for better or worse, become associated with it.
Bill Hanley:It was an awesome Tumblr called unhappy hipsters and, like, the late aughts. And it's, you know, all of these sort of bleak captions underneath the, like, you know, photos of people in, various states of semi artificial looking day to day life in their homes, from the pages of dwell. And it just, like it's sort of I I I would love to ask, you know, the team from the time what it was like when that, like, abandoned because it would just be so validating. It's like the you didn't have people in architectural photography in any meaningful way. There was some blurry person for scale maybe, but, like, there wasn't someone, like, you know, there wasn't someone, actually interacting with the house in the way that they might on a normal day.
Bill Hanley:And I hope that we're, you know, really pushing at that, you know, that sense of this is how this space is inhabited. Go back and in that first issue, read the first editor's letter by Carrie Jacobs, the manifesto. It is a wonderful, a wonderful invective against, overly staged, decorous, photography. But, anyway, that's a north star that we look to a lot. But, Yeah.
Bill Hanley:So, I mean, in terms of, like, the, in terms of what we tried to do, you know, again, I've tried to make it I've tried to preserve a lot of that. I've tried to preserve you know, certainly, our photography is, a little different from what you would see in a traditional architectural magazine or a more sort of celebrity lifestyle magazine or something like that. You know, we shoot with a lot of documentary photographers, portrait photographers, people who, you know, don't necessarily, look at the space from a designer's point of view, but look at the space ideally as, like, a guest at a dinner party. Right? Like, I you just redid your living room, and I've come over, and this is the grand tour.
Bill Hanley:And so I'm hoping that our images have, like, a little bit more dirt under their fingernails, and we have an awesome, and we have an awesome creative team who's kind of assuring that, we have the right photographers for the narrative as well. Like, you know, how do we capture the experience of getting invited to that dinner party for our audience? Not so much, like, translating the architect's vision to image, but to, you know, get a sense of what it's actually like to be there. And, you know, we push on that in our writing as well. Like, I love I don't wanna know how the building stands up.
Bill Hanley:We can get an explanation for that, but I wanna know, like, what the kitchen smells like in the morning. Like, that's the sort of, like, you know, bring me to the space. So, you know, again, hopefully, we've been able to cultivate that and use that to show a much broader range of projects and cover a much broader range of topics than, you know, you've seen in dwell, certainly, and, you know, than you've seen and dwell historically or for a while. But, or just doing it in a different way. And, you know, so I expect us to continue on that trajectory.
Bill Hanley:You know, we really have, emphasized work by emerging designers and, other parts of the world that aren't necessarily on the radar of a lot of other shelter titles. You know, it's sort of younger people who don't have a sort of media savvy apparatus promoting their work. And but, you know, so that leg work, again, finding that discovery is wonderful. And then also tackling issues and ideas related to home and housing in a way that, that approaches it with that optimism, like that, you know, with that, sense that, you know, design can help here, and that, you know, has really, that has really informed a lot of what we've done, and it's also, you know, and it's also something that I can see us doing more and more of in the future. But treating it in a way that, you know, we just did a story, about tiny home communities for people who formerly lacked housing, in, Oregon.
Bill Hanley:And, you know, often, you'll see cheery renderings and images from the ribbon cutting of these, I think most of it was transitional housing. You'll have to look at the piece. But, and, you know, we, you know, wanted to show what it's like to live there. So we so, like, okay. Like, does this work?
Bill Hanley:What's the like, or, like, what what what does work mean? Right? Like, does this, like, what is it like to inhabit one of these spaces? And so we, you know, had a writer and a photographer go chat with people who live in different, tiny home communities about their lives and what, this has meant in terms of, like, in terms of, you know, how they live and what the and what life inside the, the community is like. And, you know, it was, yeah, but telling that but, you know, it basically functions the same as the horror of any house that we've done in the magazine.
Bill Hanley:It just has a much different context than, you know, than what you might think of as a true typical dwell home tour. Or, you know, we just did a piece, about an indigenous community, in California establishing a a land trust to, hopefully assure that, housing remains affordable in their community. That's another one. You should definitely check that one out. It's a really, it's a really interesting you know, the their situation is really, really specific, but you could see the way that they are using this land trust being applicable to all sorts of, communities around the United States.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. And, you know, just think of the changing movement. I I I don't I guess, from what I'm taking in, like, kinda like changing how, like, information is being disseminated and how like, this is an interesting story that might fall slightly outside of what it's been or what it's been known for, as far as the magazine goes and how, but it's like we're still in the same vein. We're still sort of having
Bill Hanley:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are fundamentally still showing really exciting architecture, but, you know, I want it to be I don't want it to be pure fantasy. That there's it's fun. It's fun to dream about, like, hey.
Bill Hanley:This space is this space exists. That's amazing. And, you know, I don't wanna take away hopefully, we're been extremely entertaining read as well, but, like, the, and, you know, you can indulge in a little fantasy, you know, whether it's, you know, again, whether you'd actually wanna live there or you'd never want to, but it presents something that's, that that's, interesting and exciting for you. But, at the same time, you know, I want that to be rooted in the realities of, like, what home means, especially in the United States right now. And so, you know but, again, covering that in a way that's different from, like covering that in a way that is, differing from how it might be in a news context or how it might be in a, a, an academic context or, you know, your, you know, political or, you know, a feature, focus more on the political dynamics.
Bill Hanley:You know, I want it to really be about, like this is about housing. This is about, like, you know, home design. And, this is, you know, a consideration that hopefully contextualizes everything else that we, like, you know, put out there.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And and one of the things, like, I I I walk almost everywhere that I go, whether it's here in Baltimore. And if I see something that looks really cool and the outside, it's like, wow, I wonder what the people like. Who are the people that live there? How do they live?
Rob Lee:What do they do there? And that's what I was hearing it in part like some of those questions will be answered, like the tiny house scenario you were describing. I mean, I'm a monster of a person, so I was like, I wanna see how they fit in there. I wanna see how that works out for them. Like, I'm really tall.
Rob Lee:They're really wide, so it's just like, I'm not gonna fit in
Bill Hanley:here. I mean, look, there's there are certain types that, you know, maybe were complicit in helping to popularize, but, like, you know, prefab is not a type of home. It is, it is not a a style of home. It is a construction method that has lots of different permutations and may or may not make sense for your context, or, like, you know, or tiny houses. Like, I don't know.
Bill Hanley:I mean, it's, I live in Brooklyn. I don't have a lot of square footage, and it's like, what classify qualifies as a tiny house on some of these television programs that I won't name is pretty hilarious by comparison. But, yeah. I don't know. I mean, presenting, we never wanna present anything as, like, you know, an ideal lifestyle or anything like that.
Bill Hanley:So it's some more about, like, you know, this is what's possible out there. And, like, you know, I never wanna fetishize one particular type of poem. Even though, like, being known as the magazine that does this, like, you know, is we could be commercially successful. I think the, well, we're commercially successful, and I think we're commercially successful because, you know, we, do a variety of things and keep people interested and excited. But, the, you know, versus, championing, like, a specific type of house or hopefully championing a variety of things.
Bill Hanley:But, yeah, I don't know. I don't have particular opinions on, like, the the tiny house as a type or, you know, any other things that crop up. You know, I, you know, believe that they are very, very useful in some context and fit your life in some context and, are not a solution to, you know, every like, do I believe in, smaller homes over and against, like, McMansion bloat? Of course. But that doesn't mean 220 square feet.
Bill Hanley:Like, the, for everybody. Some people, that's great. You know, I personally would probably not spend a lot of time living in a van, but I know a lot of people that do, and we wanna tell their stories, you know, without being you know, without fetishizing that. Right? Without, you know, hashtag van life.
Bill Hanley:Like, this is like, okay. You're particularly interesting among the many people that do this. We're gonna talk about your thing. So I don't know. And in the same way, like, you know, if we have something that is, like, you know, really architecturally daring, like, you know, there has to be a story behind that.
Bill Hanley:And I really don't want, like, hey. This wealthy person contracted this superstar architect to build some sculptural form on their property. Like, I'm not saying we wouldn't cover that, but there'd have to be an idea there. There'd have to be a story behind it that's, you know, more complicated or more exciting than that. So, you know, whether it's, you know, whatever, a tiny house or, like, like, some, you know, whatever, some scare quotes architectural masterpiece, like, you know, there has to be, like, a good story and, like, something to for the reader to hook on to that they can relate to, again, whether they'd wanna live that way or not.
Bill Hanley:That's great.
Rob Lee:Thank you. And interestingly enough that you you've did the daily double yet again. You've answered 2 questions at that bit, so that's a good space for us to stop with the real questions. Okay. We can actually move into these rapid fire questions now, and, I'll give you the sort of disclaimer or whatever that I give everyone.
Rob Lee:Don't overthink them. They're goofy questions. They're fine, but they're goofy questions. What is your, so I got, like I said, 4 of them. Could you name 3 tools?
Rob Lee:Like, I'm thinking apps here, but, you know, to find tools how you define them. Name 3 tools that you use daily.
Bill Hanley:That I enjoy using daily or that, like, I Sure. Sure.
Rob Lee:You know what? Let's go. Let's go now, Ralph.
Bill Hanley:I mean, yeah. I I I have mixed feelings about all of the things that I use daily, but, I don't know, like, like, that I think are particularly brilliant. I'm, like, looking at my phone now, and I am I guess, I'm gonna limit this to apps. Not gonna giggle at your question, but the, yeah. I don't know.
Bill Hanley:Slack, Instagram, and that that's my, like, generational thing too. Right? I'm, like, solidly Instagram. I'm not a TikTok person, although, like, you know, I mean, obvious I'm a little obsessed with, with, DIY furniture, hacks on TikTok, though. Like, especially, especially the more baroque and adaptation of some, like, found or thrifted piece that people come up with.
Bill Hanley:But and what else am I, like, what else do I use all the time? I don't know. The weather app? I'm really, I mean, Spotify. I'm a bit of, like, I've never written about music, but I'm a bit of a, like, music, like, enthusiast, let's say.
Bill Hanley:I was, like, a record I I was and still am, like, a record crate digger. So, like, I love getting mad at the Spotify algorithm. It's just like, you think that's related to that? I I have a friend who used to work there completely independently of, of any kind of programming that would, that would have an influence on how that algorithm works. And, I used to just text him to complain all the time when the algorithm got it completely wrong.
Bill Hanley:Like, you can do something about this. Right? But, anyway, this is a re those are really boring answers. It's very conventional answers, but but those, but those are probably the 3 tools that I use every day. Could I live without them?
Bill Hanley:Ideally.
Rob Lee:No. That's that's that's great. And it actually slides into this next one because I heard I heard music, I think, earlier you were you were talking, so definitely I have a music related question. If there was a what would you say? Like, if you go through that Spotify right now, right?
Bill Hanley:You don't wanna know.
Rob Lee:What what is the what are the last three liked songs that you have?
Bill Hanley:Well, I like things just to save them. I don't necessarily like them just But
Rob Lee:we all. Like them.
Bill Hanley:What are the things where I'm like, oh, that's really good? Oh, wow. If I go through genres, like, kind of, sixties garage rock, funk, and soul, like, that Nice. That trifecta looms large. A lot of yeah.
Bill Hanley:I guess, like, late seventies eighties, pokes punk, but that's kind of a cliche, what's really good. And listening to a lot of I've been listening listening to a lot of, like, I don't know, like, classic house music lately. It's not something I was, like, such a, like, indie rock kid and, like, a hardcore kid in the nineties that, like, I kind of missed a lot of, like, a lot of dance music from then. And, like, it's so it's, you know, I mean, it's obviously pretty ambient in the culture, but, like, I, like, have never really dug in that direction. So there's a lot of that in there now too.
Bill Hanley:I looking at some of this, though, like, I can't name, like, what what did that sound like? I just am, like, an obsessive, like, oh, this is really good. Oh, this is really good. So I will wander around New York City with, like, you know, random in random Spotify rabbit holes, and and snag things. But if there are 3 sort of, like, touchstone genres, those are probably it.
Rob Lee:That's good. Thank you. Thank you. See, I I use this rapid fire portion. People think it's me, like, diving in and trying to learn more about the person, which in a sense it is.
Rob Lee:But also it's me stealing. Like, alright. What what what song again?
Bill Hanley:No. I can follow-up, like, which I actually think were good or which was like, wow. I can't believe this exists. I've never listened to that again.
Rob Lee:I was, I I've really gotten to this, it it was funny because my my partner, she saw me. She's like, why are you dancing? I was like, I'm listening to this vaporwave, musician named Barb Walters. You're having way too much fun. I was like, look, it's it's fine.
Rob Lee:It's fine. Let me just be me.
Bill Hanley:It's like wash the dishes and, like, out of most, like, rabbit holes of, like, genres that, like, I never really,
Rob Lee:like, thought I would find myself murking around in, but or within the murk of. What is your and because, you know, design, art, all of that stuff, I know it's going to be a pluralization. That's not a word, but pluralization of this question. But what is your favorite color? Oh, funny.
Rob Lee:Blue. Okay. Because usually people say, oh, here's my 3. I was like, I I said 1. I said color, and I thought Definitive.
Bill Hanley:Yeah. I'll say 100%. Okay. I sat by it. I I dig it.
Bill Hanley:This is
Rob Lee:the last one. You you said you have, like, the the sort of, like, wake waking up late, going to sleep late. So in that, I am definitely curious as to, like, what what my guests eat. I like to get into their lives. I mean, what is that, you know, late night meal for you?
Rob Lee:It doesn't have to be healthy. It just has to be good. What is that meal for you?
Bill Hanley:I don't really eat late night.
Rob Lee:I'd like, but what do I
Bill Hanley:I mean, I don't really eat late night, but, by comparison to most normal people, I probably eat later than most. But the, I don't know. I'd like, like, what is a real go to? I guess, like, you know, I'm not talking about, like, the desert island food, but, like, you know, I live in New York. I have, like, a particular, like, chip on my shoulder about pizza anywhere else.
Bill Hanley:And so, like, and I happen to live near one of probably what I would call the best New York pizza place in New York. And, that'll that would annoy a lot of people, but I would also a lot of people would also have my back should I have that argument. But, yeah, that's kind of my, like, you know I mean, that's kind of I don't know. I like, but, like, on the fancier end, like, I don't know. You could stick with pizza and talk about, like, you know, boujee, Neapolitan style.
Bill Hanley:Like, it's on a well designed room with, like, I don't know, good cocktails. Like, I mean, it's really it's I I'm maybe maybe it's more about, like, what the space looks like than what I'm actually eating. Like, it's sort of I put a lot of weight into, like, where I find myself. I'm not like not like, you know, like, oh, I have to, you know, go see but in fact, like, I'm certainly not the person to tell you what's cool or interesting right now, but, like, you know, I do, like, have a real sense of my own identity and constitution based on, like, the space that I'm in. So, like, the, like, I don't know.
Bill Hanley:In the, like, it just has, you know, an extreme influence on my mood and understanding of who I am and what I'm doing. I guess that's not super unusual, but reflecting on it now, it's like, oh, maybe that's why I do this. I'm just, like, you know, too bound up in my surroundings or something that. But, I'm being really unarticulate about this, so I'm going to stop answering this question now.
Rob Lee:So so I heard pizza.
Bill Hanley:Yep. Pizza. 100%. Love pizza. Love pizza.
Bill Hanley:Love, New York style. Like, there's a particular, like, I I have a particular set of criteria. It is, like, I don't know. It is something that I would find it challenging to leave behind should I move away from the city. Although, maybe that would just make the sort of acute pang of wanting it late at night, although greater when I returned.
Bill Hanley:That that was one of
Rob Lee:the best answers, though. It's like all of these other considerations. It's like, it's still pizza, but it's all of these. I mean, I I kinda do the same thing as as to to be very colloquial about it. I was like, I don't do raggedy shit.
Rob Lee:That's literally what my client is. I'm like, that'd be good, but I I don't do
Bill Hanley:a raggedy thing. I don't I don't do that. Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm not like a I don't know.
Bill Hanley:I'm not like a, oh my god. I just want, like, you know, a classic, like, some sort of fast food chain or whatever, like, that sparks a sort of a youthful nostalgia. I, like, just, like, gross. But, Except for a slice shop. Like, that's the thing.
Bill Hanley:I mean, which I suppose is, like, you know, on on the health scale, probably not all that much better for you, but I believe it also has, like, a greater I don't know. There's there's a, I don't know. There's a cultural importance that goes along with that slice that's very different than other things. Again, that sounds pizza, the answer is pizza.
Rob Lee:That that that is great. And, and with that, that's pretty much it for me. I I I'm done roasting you with all of my questions and just throwing them at you and seeing if you can deflect them, and you you won. You won. So so with that, one, I want to thank you so much for for making the time to hop on this podcast anything you want to share, like sort of like, you know, your your final thoughts here.
Rob Lee:And then please include social media website, all the good stuff, you know, for folks to check things out, online. So, the floor is yours.
Bill Hanley:Okay. Well, Rob, thank you so much for reaching out. I mean, again, like, I'm a huge advocate for, people going it alone and doing, you know, independent work and, you know, growing in a way that works for them and doesn't sort of plug in to establish old models that are dying off anyway. With that in mind, follow us at dwell wherever you can find at dwell. At dwellmagazineand@welland, dwell.com, and dwell, dwell, dwell.
Rob Lee:There you have it, folks. I wanna again thank William Hanley for coming on to the podcast. Duall Magazine, Duall Magazine, Duall Magazine. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, design, interesting conversations in and around your neck of the woods. You just gotta look for it.
