Exploring Horror and Gaming Art with Illustrator Nick Tofani | Art, Creativity, Community
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Truth in this art
Only a couple months down, I think I recognize.
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Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Lee. Rob Lee. Yes. I've had the Rob Lee, which is a drag here for for my guessing. I'll hold off until later tonight, a little bit later. But today I have the privilege of being in conversation with an illustrator based out of Massachusetts, where they focus on horror and game art.
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Rob Lee
Please welcome Nikki Giovanni. Welcome to the podcast.
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Nick Tofani
Hey, thanks for having me, Rob. What a delight.
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Speaker 4
That is great. All right. So you see it.
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Nick Tofani
I had me and now I'm gone.
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Rob Lee
So just for context. So there's a drink named after me in Baltimore, and I just went to the restaurant that serves it before doing this podcast. And when I go there, it's like, Are you having one of you? And I was like, Oh, love. I thought about that.
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Speaker 4
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Rob Lee
Having Rob Lee is delicious. Is four moves in Brighton. Bourbon is delicious.
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Nick Tofani
That's incredible. How did you get a drink named after you? I know this isn't the point. The podcast, but I got it.
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Rob Lee
Out and I'm friends with the.
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Speaker 4
Owner, so. Oh, okay. Well.
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Nick Tofani
Let's still super cool. Could you imagine if the drink was bad, though?
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Speaker 4
Like, I was just.
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Nick Tofani
I mean, like, I actually don't, like you.
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Speaker 4
Rob st we.
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Rob Lee
Absolutely test kitchen. The first thing is like, how is it? I was like, is good. I'm proud to have my name on it and oh yeah for context I had a, had a guest who did an interview and he was like, I want to the restaurant. I had to rob Lee. He's like, Are you that Rob Lee? I was like, I am.
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Rob Lee
That's like, you have my first taste of me.
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Speaker 4
Yeah. Context.
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Nick Tofani
Very strange thing to say to somebody.
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Rob Lee
I like to do that. I like to keep it weird.
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Speaker 4
And hell, yeah.
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Rob Lee
So. So if we ever get started here again, thank you for coming on to the podcast and indulging me because it's going to get weird. But we do. We get before we get to too deep into it.
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Speaker 4
Share share your.
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Rob Lee
Story. Like ultimately the how did you start and where is the story start? What sort of creative things did you do as a young person? And I have a few other questions related to that, but let's start off with some of that sort of introductory stuff.
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Nick Tofani
I mean, I guess it really just started with me, one of the first movies I remember seeing as a kid, literally the first movie I remember seeing as a kid was Child's Play Two. Not the first one. The second.
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Speaker 4
One.
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Nick Tofani
Because my, my uncle, like, just put it on. And we, it was like on the TV and it had commercial breaks because I remember very vividly seeing Chucky like stalking through during the break. We'll be.
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Rob Lee
Right back to Child's Play.
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Nick Tofani
Two. And that was like a commercial for Pop-Tarts.
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Speaker 4
And you seem like Pop-Tarts are terrifying.
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Nick Tofani
And for a long time, I was just like terrified of dolls and mannequins and things like that. But like, it was like such a weird feeling to be scared. And I but it was like, fun almost. So, like, I started seeking that stuff out. And you remember, I mean, everyone knows, like, scary stories to tell in the dark, right?
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Nick Tofani
Yeah. My, my cousin would, like, steal those books from the library when I would like, try to find them. So like I never had them. And you have them at his house. So I just read them there and I remember those illustrations just like really standing out to me and just it was just so unnerving and weird and like no real organization to it.
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Nick Tofani
And I loved it so much just because, like, there's so much that you don't see on the page, but like, your mind starts wondering like, what's going on here? What's the whole story that you're like, I know there's stories that go with the illustrations, but a lot of those illustrations are just like their own sort of thing, even without the story.
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Nick Tofani
And it just like that's what I love about horror and storytelling in general is just like, what's left up to the imagination, you know?
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Rob Lee
But yeah, I mean, he's deprecated and is these terrible or canceled or whatever. But I remember this sort of comment around from James Franco when he did that documentary, Interior Leather Bar, and he was like, Yeah, he did a movie cruise in in 1980. And it was like, Yeah, we're not going to show any of this sort of like gay leather culture stuff or what have you.
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Rob Lee
And we're going to cut all of this out. And he's like, This is weird. It's like, Oh my. A documentary showing what I think happens in here because you guys cut it out and it is wildly explicit and wildly like, Oh, this is just the inside of a bar. But he was like, I'm theater of the mind. This is what I think is happens in between these points we see in the movie.
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Rob Lee
This is like a companion piece to the serial killer in this leather community, what have you. And I think that there's something there. And I was having a conversation recently and I was talking about really being immersed when you come across, let's say what I remember watching American what it's an American crime story about O.J. and then watching the 3430 about O.J. and kind of filling in those different gaps.
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Rob Lee
And I watch things like that. And then I get, you know, white rabbit going down the rabbit hole, filling in all of those things to get the full story.
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Nick Tofani
I just have like a corkboard behind you with all the little pinpoints and red story, you're like, Did O.J..
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Speaker 4
Really do it.
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Rob Lee
100%, 100%. It's like he did it and he scored a touchdown afterwards because he's terrible, you know, in kind of filling in those sorts of sorts of things and that's that's the way I.
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Speaker 4
Think.
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Rob Lee
Consuming something works. And also child's play, too. I think that's the one. I don't know if it's.
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Speaker 4
That's not the.
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Rob Lee
One where he says, you heard me, bitch. And it's so funny.
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Nick Tofani
That is is that is the one. Yeah.
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Rob Lee
Yeah.
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Nick Tofani
Oh no, no. Yeah. And like, it ends with like the doll factory, which is like one of the best, like set pieces or set whatever for any horror movie conclusion ever. Just a bunch of Chucky's all over the wall and then they, like, kill him, like, eight times.
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Speaker 4
It's insane. It's so. So talk.
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Rob Lee
About. And I remember really watching a lot of horror movies as a kid. I think, um, minds was usually like, definitely too slasher so, you know, Freddy, Jason, that kind of stuff or what have you. We may have a we may have a horror question later in this rapid fire portion of the pod.
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Speaker 4
Oh, so what got.
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Rob Lee
You into like illustration and talk about like some of the your education, schooling skills or what have you that kind of helped you go into this path of the work that you're doing.
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Nick Tofani
So like I said, like horror movies and things like that, for a long time I didn't draw horror because I thought I would be like judged for it or like people would look at me weird, but they already looked at me weird. So like, at a certain point, you just kind of broke in my brain. I'm just like more of a breakthrough where I was just like, Who cares?
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Nick Tofani
I'll just do it because I enjoy it, you know? But I love just illustration in general, like the Stinky Cheese Man links with his work ever gory like the just all Tommy Apollo. He's like a massachusetts guy. He was a big one. He had that one story about like an old lady who made some spaghetti and it flooded a town.
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Nick Tofani
And even even this one book that's like required learning in Massachusetts. I kid you not. Well, it seemed like it was like a children's illustrated book about the Great Molasses Spill. And on the cover is it's like a child drowning in molasses. And like, we're playing it off. Like, it's this fun, whimsical thing that happened in Boston when, like, eight people died.
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Nick Tofani
But yeah, so. So I guess like drawing pictures and watching cartoons, things like that was really big for me and I mean, everything I have is basically self-taught. And I mean, like most artists, a majority of artists I would say I pull inspiration from basically everywhere. And, you know, if I see something new, I want to try it, I'll try it out.
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Nick Tofani
And if I like it, I'll keep doing it. And, you know, repetition makes practice makes perfect. But I just I mean, I just love drawing. I always have. And it's only until recently, within the last like a little before the pandemic, where I was just like, I'm going to just draw what I want to draw and not worry what people think and not be so critical of myself.
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Nick Tofani
And that's when I actually got like got better at it. And I enjoy it a lot more not to be like, Oh, I'm good at drawing, but like I'm okay.
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Speaker 4
And I have a lot.
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Nick Tofani
More fun with it now.
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Rob Lee
I'll say that and thank you. Thank you for sharing that because I think it's something about doing it for yourself. And if people like it, that's when you're finding your tribe and the people that dig it. And you know, it's it's a thing where I see people stuff and maybe coming from this sort of spot of I'm not an art critic.
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Rob Lee
I'm not you know, I'm not doing that. I'm a person who likes what I like and really being resolute in that, you know, it was a few pieces that really stuck out to me when I saw you at the Small Press Expo. That's where we initially met Fred. For the folks listening there, I got a lot of judging, you know, vibes, and I was just like.
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Speaker 4
It's this impression. This guy absolutely has to have.
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Rob Lee
And I know I watched a lot of gems, you know, collection. I was like, Nah, we got to talk.
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Speaker 4
And it's just, well.
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Nick Tofani
I do love Junji Ito. And recently they crunchyroll or I think it's cultural. They do like this service with the manga publishing company. They do like a series of videos with Judge Ito where he reviews like horror comics or like horror art. And he reviewed one of my things and he really liked it, it seemed like. And I was like, This is the coolest thing, like it ever happened.
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Nick Tofani
Like this is this is the pinnacle. There's nowhere else but down from here. But it was so cool. And but I love Genji too, for a long time. Like, I want to be the hipster. Be like I like, judge, you know, before it was cool, but I do. I do remember when I was like back in like 2011, just first finding his stuff and being like obsessed with it and just like going down the rabbit hole of all of his comics and like, seeing just the body horror that he does.
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Nick Tofani
That's my favorite type of horror, by the way. Body horror, the best. It's so good. It's just visceral, it's freaky. It's like, could this happen to me sort of thing?
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Rob Lee
I'm updating my question as I go along now. Thank you. Okay.
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Speaker 4
So what is what would you.
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Rob Lee
Say if someone came to you and said, what is the one drawing that represents you? Like within your portfolio? What would be that one drawing that if this was your you're real, this is the one piece you're submitting, what would that piece be and why? Your work?
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Nick Tofani
I would say for me, the one that I really like the most and I want to represent me. It's this piece I did where it's just like a face with a head tilt back in the eyes, look at it and just kind of like a grimace on its face. And it just kind of looks like it's sort of like drifting apart.
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Nick Tofani
And I think I titled it I've seen the worst of it. It is. It's very I don't know. It's it's it's just like the way I drew the expression, it's like happened on accident. But like, I love how it looks and it just it freaks me out when I look at it sometimes and I don't know, it just it's just very I say it represents fear the best because it's just like there's a lot of pain in those.
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Speaker 4
Eyes that I say as I laugh.
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Nick Tofani
Yeah, but I don't know, I really like that one. But outside of that, I guess anything that's like just freaky Little Ghost.
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Speaker 4
Like that's.
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Rob Lee
That might be the name of the name of the podcast. Freaky Little Ghost.
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Nick Tofani
Freaky Little.
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Speaker 4
Ghosts with.
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Nick Tofani
Your host, Robin Thicke. It's a the new podcast that we got it.
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Rob Lee
We're they're just a monochromatic Casper.
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Nick Tofani
Yeah. Oh, my God. I saw. I sorry to go off topic or whatever but like I saw like there's so my girlfriend was having a presentation for her thesis, like an art school thing and one of the people in her class was talking about spooky bodies like in depth, the movie Spooky Bodies, which, like no one's ever seen spooky bodies.
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Nick Tofani
What the hell is that? And then, like, she just like like, I don't know if it had to do with her aunt or her thesis or anything, just like. But she started showing pictures of, like, this Casper body dog. It was just like Casper, his body with a dog's head superimposed on it. And that was like the plot of spooky bodies.
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Nick Tofani
And I don't know why, it just made me think of that. And it was awful.
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Rob Lee
I literally just typed in Spooky Body is now going to end up watching it later because Harlan Williams is in it and I got to make that happen.
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Nick Tofani
Oh, okay. Yeah, you got to watch it of horror. Williams, as I did.
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Speaker 4
I don't know that they didn't mention that at all.
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Nick Tofani
On their thesis, but they.
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Rob Lee
Can't forget the great Harlan Williams.
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Nick Tofani
Oh, you kid.
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Speaker 4
What you thought about.
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Rob Lee
So you said your earlier you said you're drawing inspiration from like like everywhere. And I think a lot of know a lot of stuff that I do is very similar where, you know, I might draw inspiration for a question. I have like a kind of a solid spot that I get stuff from. But when that's not quite firing, it's like I'm walking around and, you know, in Baltimore where I'm based, when they get something out of that or even at the Small Press Expo, I'm going to get something out of that's going to inform how I go about questions and trying to get into the head of a guess.
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Rob Lee
Right? So talk to me about, you know, how do you approach brainstorming and conceptualizing your ideas for illustrations like, you know, talk about that process a bit.
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Speaker 4
I.
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Nick Tofani
Guess just like going throughout my day and when I have like I struggle with anxiety. I unmedicated for to go to therapy. I do all the work, you know, do the work folks anyway. But like just anything that sort of, like, freaks me out or stands out or just seems a little off. There's always just, like, a place for inspiration, like, just driving down the road late at night by yourself in, like, a wooded area can be freaky.
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Nick Tofani
And then you're just thinking about, like, those old urban legends, about, like, the person in the backseat and like the high beams on. And I was obsessed with urban legends when I was younger. I mean, I still kind of am, but like, I would I would research them in depth, but things like that, just like any little thing that, like, seems kind of innocuous.
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Nick Tofani
But then, like, when you really let your imagination start to roam really freaks me out. That's where I find most. My inspiration from. Just like little everyday things that somehow devolve into being these terrifying experiences just because, like, you're letting your imagination run wild.
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Rob Lee
Yeah, yeah. The anxiety, that sort of stuff. It's kind of an interesting motivator. Like it can make you do things you didn't. You do is like, Oh, yeah, I guess I'm going to lose this weight out of fear or get on that bike.
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Speaker 4
Or whatever it.
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Rob Lee
Is. Right. And but definitely on occasion I run into some of the urban legends in some you just can't get away from. I don't know if it was the actually the movie Urban Legend or not, or maybe it was a snippet from one of those like old sort of maybe creepshow type of flicks. It was one that I remember that's like, Hey, lady, can I get a ride?
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Rob Lee
It's like, she had a dude.
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Nick Tofani
It was Creepshow.
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Rob Lee
That bugs me out. I can't deal with it. Or if I live alone, right? So if I go home, I'm like, I'm watching. There's a little too late now. It's a little too on the nose. I don't want to wake up to a hammer to the face. Let me check the crib.
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Nick Tofani
Yeah, I think that was Creepshow, too, where she hits the homeless guy with her car and the like. He's just dragging on the roof and everything. And I love Creepshow two, if only for the one segment where they go out on the raft and there's like, no water. Yeah, it just, like, one of the most painful looking scenes ever of that person getting split in half and just dragged down into the raft is like it stuck with me.
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Rob Lee
It's rough, and I watch a lot of horror. I definitely have shudder, you know? And just watching what it was that the 101 greatest scares or what have you in being able to revisit. There was a few things that I hadn't seen. So like watching the what it's a the autopsy of Jane Doe. I was like, this is fire.
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Rob Lee
I like this. I like this. A lot.
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Speaker 4
Of yeah.
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Rob Lee
And I'd never seen it before.
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Speaker 4
And I was like, Why did I miss this? I was like.
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Rob Lee
This is a cast that jammed with and, you know, and it got me to thinking like, how did the classify some of these things? What's a scene? What's a scare like the rain? That scene that they use for the ring is not necessarily the scariest scene. I mean, but I get it. You know, I get that they may be voted on or something.
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Rob Lee
So in terms of maybe how you go about classifying your work and categorizing your work, what is the thought that goes into that? Like I try to windowing doing this, I'm very hesitant to say, Oh, this is a Q&A or this is an interview. But I think for the audience it's like this is an interview with this person.
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Rob Lee
How do you go about categorizing and classifying your work?
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Nick Tofani
Uncomfortable. Unless, like, it's it's weird. It's like a lot of the stuff I draw not and thinking about it, it kind of has like same running theme of just like strangers staring at you or I was watching you, and I'm just like, is that like a subconscious thing that I'm doing? And I'm realizing that. And like, when I'm not doing those, like, I'll draw stuff like that when I'm like in a good mood, like, just like freaky, like people staring at you sort of thing because it's always in the back of my mind.
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Nick Tofani
And then when I'm like, depressed, I start drawing really stupid meme drawings, like, just like redoing Renaissance paintings as damn shoddy okays.
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Speaker 4
But like.
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Nick Tofani
I don't know, it just it's weird how I just, like, bounce between that, but yeah, I don't know. I guess just the feeling of anxiety and the terror of anxiety and the unknown and just theater of the mind sort of thing. But I noticed that like with the pandemic and how everything's been, at least before the pandemic, horror movies are pretty scarce and like they would come out every now and then and there would be like there is a period of like really bad, like B-grade slasher movies coming out like the I Know What You Did last summer, sort of movies, all that.
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Nick Tofani
There's like a bunch of those, but nothing really outside of that realm. And then years later, we have the pandemic and like hereditary comes out and then like elevated horror becomes like a thing. People love that. And it seems like because everyone's been home alone and forced into introspection, it's made people really gravitate towards horror more. And that's why we're seeing so much more of it now than we ever have, just because, like people are looking for something else to be scared of than their own.
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Rob Lee
But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's very true. And, you know, one of the things that you met my partner like her, her kids, his girlfriend, she's like, she's one of those I don't get a free from it a pretty buy buy anything horror movies. Oh scare me at all. So we've been on this thing for the last few months that we don't fight something or find something that scares you, and we worry that, oh, she doesn't sleep.
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Rob Lee
I say, Oh, you don't really sleep. So that's that's what the issue is. Go to sleep.
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Speaker 4
It is everything is a afraid. Everything terrifies me.
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Nick Tofani
Oh, my brain's working now. Oh, no.
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Speaker 4
But yeah, it's.
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Rob Lee
You know, it's certain things that if I do this thing of going back and looking at like maybe where the root of things come from. So a couple of months ago I ended up watching Deliverance for the first time and I was like, right. And I was like, Oh, the 50 year old movie is like, That's fine. I'm not really.
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Rob Lee
But then, you know, I remember you can go a little bit further back and watching the things I've never seen the original Exorcist, right? But I think I've seen Exorcist three for some reason.
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Nick Tofani
That's the best one. So it's fine for this one.
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Speaker 4
So.
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Rob Lee
You know, it's kind of like one of those things. And then seeing like people have like a discourse around like movies that just didn't really hit the mark, especially like sort of these horror movies like that first remake, continuation of Halloween, the, the Danny McBride, whatever. Yeah, that was fine. But the last two sucked, especially Halloween ends stunk.
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Rob Lee
And I was just like, What is this? And I feel like I'm able to have more. I think to your point about more people having an interest in that genre, I'm able to have more discourse in it versus people saying, I don't know what you're talking about.
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Speaker 4
Oh.
00;20;27;17 - 00;20;42;08
Nick Tofani
God, you're going to make me go off on a tangent about those Halloween movies. But like, I kind of like first off with the third one, if they just made that like a through line through the movies of that kid, whatever becoming, you know, the next Michael Myers spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the bad movie it.
00;20;43;17 - 00;20;46;12
Speaker 4
Would be the.
00;20;47;00 - 00;21;03;03
Nick Tofani
And then like for some reason it's like years later Michael Myers walks away and no one follows. Years later, Jamie Lee Curtis, his daughter's dead and she's just like, Yeah, I'm fine. I gave up on my whole, like, vengeance thing. Now I guarantee where I go because your daughter got murdered, that would be a play to, like, make her want.
00;21;03;03 - 00;21;06;06
Speaker 4
To fucking go after Michael. Like, it doesn't literally.
00;21;06;06 - 00;21;09;01
Rob Lee
What I said, watching the movie, I was like, Oh, is this going to make pi? Wow.
00;21;09;02 - 00;21;10;11
Speaker 4
Okay, cool. Yeah.
00;21;10;23 - 00;21;16;06
Nick Tofani
It turns out the problem she had was with her daughter, not Michael Myers. And when Judy Greer died, she's like, all right.
00;21;16;14 - 00;21;18;21
Speaker 4
And everyone got rid of her.
00;21;18;21 - 00;21;19;11
Rob Lee
Good, good. Yeah.
00;21;19;14 - 00;21;34;15
Nick Tofani
All right, cool, man. Don't. Don't need to worry about that anymore, but it's just. It's so stupid. Oh, my God. I just like there was no real, like, cohesion between the movies. It just felt like someone else directed each one, even though I know that's not the case.
00;21;34;24 - 00;21;35;08
Speaker 4
Right? Right.
00;21;35;25 - 00;21;36;13
Nick Tofani
Yeah, yeah.
00;21;36;16 - 00;21;55;00
Rob Lee
That is bad. That. Yeah, that's that's the thing. And I think, you know, you want to see more of it and you want to see more sort of this media around that those sort of themes, that sort of genre, if you will. This can be scary or what have you because you're looking back. Books used to be scary.
00;21;55;00 - 00;21;57;04
Rob Lee
Now books are scary enough.
00;21;57;04 - 00;22;13;00
Nick Tofani
So we need to make books scary again. You know what the problem is? The Internet. The Internet exists. And so, like, everyone's exposed to everything now. So we're all we're all going to get those scares out, like random things every now and then. And then we build up a tolerance for it. And then there's nothing that surprises us anymore.
00;22;13;11 - 00;22;28;16
Nick Tofani
And that's why it feels like every every news cycle is 24 hours at most, because, like, something big happens and we just forget about the next day because we just like, there's just too much happening all the time, because we have too much access to information, and that's why we're not scared of stuff anymore.
00;22;29;06 - 00;22;50;09
Rob Lee
How do you feel that that has affected the Internet? Right. Has affected illustration as affected like your work, whether positive or negative? Because I know now we have this sort of stuff and artists are getting, you know, kind of squeezed out. And I know that they're doing audio air. So that's also infringing in this sort of area as well.
00;22;50;28 - 00;23;00;25
Rob Lee
That's an issue that I don't know. What are your thoughts around and how has like the Internet of sort of technology in that space kind of impacted your work?
00;23;02;09 - 00;23;25;20
Nick Tofani
Well, it hasn't impacted me personally because, I mean, I think I would break if it tried to copy what I do just because it's so messy and it wouldn't be able to make that sort of a mess unless it was organic. But when it comes like other illustrator friends of mine who have like much more cleaner, professional like line work and it's really good.
00;23;25;21 - 00;23;44;18
Nick Tofani
I see like the I just it runs their stuff through it and it basically just tries to make a one for one copy except for the hands for some reason are always fucked up. And I don't like. That's terrifying, right? They're just like the idea of a person just looking completely normal and then just having these, like, fucking air.
00;23;44;18 - 00;24;08;02
Nick Tofani
And it's just kind of terrifying in itself. But yeah, no, I mean, like, there is like the fear that it's going to take jobs from people because the problem is like corporations and like people who hire artists for big jobs don't really care about art. They just care about, you know, making the bottom line and attracting customers. And if they can do that with something that is way less for them, then they're going to do that.
00;24;08;14 - 00;24;22;09
Nick Tofani
But as soon as they start doing that, they're just going to charge more for it and it's just going to be the same shit all over again. But I don't know. I'm not scared of it. I just think it's garbage and I don't like that it steals people's work in order to make itself work. You know, that's not art.
00;24;23;01 - 00;24;47;03
Rob Lee
It's in. It doesn't extend nothing. Nothing does innovative. Yeah, I think that's the thing. That kind of kind of gets me as well. I'm on the same page with you where you know, we talk about things that are scary, right? You know, it's really scary. Black Mirror is scary because we see it every day. You know, like this feels like something from Black Mirror, like three or four years ago, especially with the whole voice thing.
00;24;47;03 - 00;25;05;03
Rob Lee
Like, you know, you'd have the fanboys, man. James Earl Jones is retiring. Don't worry, we have enough of his dialog to make Darth Vader for the rest of eternity. And that literally is an episode, I think the whole recent episode of Black Mirror, when he does, they make a robot of him. It's like, Oh yeah, I have enough of his dialog.
00;25;05;06 - 00;25;08;26
Rob Lee
I can just have a conversation with you. Yeah, that, that is unnerving.
00;25;09;20 - 00;25;27;18
Nick Tofani
I remember when people were, like, freaked out when Tupac got a hologram made of him, and now we have, like, full CGI deepfakes of people, and it's just like, it's insane like that. And this technology and people putting their faces in the air. Photo generators don't realize that their information has been taken and like that it can be used.
00;25;27;18 - 00;25;42;25
Nick Tofani
Not like any of us are important enough yet that that would be a problem. But like it's like the fact that it's out there is very uncomfortable and very unnerving that someone has access to that and they can just use it for whatever means they need. Yeah, identity fraud is going to go to the next level.
00;25;43;13 - 00;26;04;17
Rob Lee
So we've seen more and more of that during the during the pandemic because, you know, I think it's two things as you were touching on with, you know, people want to be afraid or want to have that distraction. I think it's closer to where that whether it's, oh, this is something to make you laugh. Ha ha ha, you know, filters on the face or have you and something to terrify you.
00;26;04;17 - 00;26;32;19
Rob Lee
But really they're all distractions and it's all to get you to engage in whatever it is. And I don't know about you, but I got that filter on my phone now that says no calls that I don't recognize because I've gotten so many sketchy calls. And it's just like there was a leak, there was a hack in. I think you're right, where it's more and more your identity, you know, from a Social Security number, I suppose perspective is just like vulnerable.
00;26;32;19 - 00;26;55;14
Rob Lee
But you're creative potentially. Your creative identity is, you know, people are taking that it how can I like do this I was I like puns. Right. And my partner was joking. She was like, you know, you have the Wu-Tang Clan named Generator. They have a punch generator of your nonsense. I was like, Look, don't get me started. I write algorithm, dammit.
00;26;55;14 - 00;26;56;12
Speaker 4
I mean, I.
00;26;56;12 - 00;27;02;15
Nick Tofani
Feel like people would absolutely use that. It would be great. They would use that to make like the indie character names. I know.
00;27;03;10 - 00;27;16;28
Rob Lee
I had. I'm doing a comic about cat lawyers and I have a character that I'm talking about in there. I think I want him to be from the Sanitation Department in New Jersey and I want to be called the trash pandas.
00;27;17;15 - 00;27;18;14
Speaker 4
Well, that's good.
00;27;18;14 - 00;27;21;11
Rob Lee
I think that works really well. But they're going to be the mob guys.
00;27;22;11 - 00;27;23;00
Nick Tofani
I love that.
00;27;23;00 - 00;27;24;17
Rob Lee
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
00;27;25;00 - 00;27;26;01
Speaker 4
Yeah, absolutely.
00;27;27;06 - 00;27;38;18
Rob Lee
So this is a very interesting question for me. Describe your version of the artist lifestyle. Like what does that context mean to you? Like that idea?
00;27;39;25 - 00;27;40;07
Speaker 4
Well.
00;27;41;15 - 00;27;58;19
Nick Tofani
The ideal version of the artist lifestyle, I imagine, would be to just do art your entire life and make a living wage and, you know, be creative and have outlets for that and make work you can be proud of constantly. But what it really is, is just like a lot of.
00;27;59;13 - 00;28;00;25
Speaker 4
It's a lot.
00;28;00;25 - 00;28;23;11
Nick Tofani
Of just like trial and error and trying to make it work and having to have a full time job just so you know, you can make those ends meet and you can have insurance and you can, you know, survive because starving artists used to be a term that was thrown around back in the day, but it wasn't like really a thing because, like, you know, artists can make enough to survive because they would just scrape, they would scrape by.
00;28;23;11 - 00;28;46;10
Nick Tofani
But nowadays, you know, as an artist, unless you're really making the big money from like corporations and stuff, you are literally going to be starving unless you have like a job as well. And that's, that's what stuff about it. So like any free time that you have is most likely going to be dedicated to doing art and thinking about art and wanting to get better at art.
00;28;46;17 - 00;28;58;07
Nick Tofani
But then you kind of fall into this cycle of like, Oh, I wish I could be doing all right now. But then like as soon as you're doing too much art or art that you don't want to be doing for like a client or something like a project, you don't care for it. Then you're like, Oh, I hate this.
00;28;58;07 - 00;29;24;15
Nick Tofani
I don't like art anymore. And that's it. That's why it sucks because everything's commercial and ized here in the old USA and capitalism really does kind of have a rope around the artist's neck, so to speak, but and now they're just ready to replace as of this artificial intelligence stuff. But hopefully the more people call it out and make fun of it, the the less people are less likely to use it, you know?
00;29;24;24 - 00;29;25;23
Nick Tofani
But who knows?
00;29;26;08 - 00;29;48;10
Rob Lee
I just feel like this chapter of the story is called Rise of the Art Bots. So I think I think that's actually a good point to go to this next question, aside from money, because I think money is too easy as far as like what what do artists need? What are three things that artists need and why do they need them?
00;29;48;10 - 00;29;52;00
Rob Lee
And I think that connects very closely to what you were just talking about.
00;29;52;00 - 00;30;20;16
Nick Tofani
There is no need versus want. What artists want is validation for sure. A lot of artists, a majority of artists, even if they don't want to admit it, some of them, they just want validation, they want attention, they want to be known for their work, whatever, you know, that's just the truth of that. But as soon as you stop seeking that and you start having fun with it, because that's where you've gotten the art in the first place, hopefully, you know, you find more success with it and you find that audience like you were saying earlier, you find your tribe.
00;30;22;04 - 00;31;02;16
Nick Tofani
But I guess what artists need is a tribe. You know, people like minded artists to bounce ideas off of or just like have that sense of community because you can't just do it alone. You just going to be miserable. They need housing. You need to be able to live somewhere. They need to be comfortable. And I love for their work, you know, they need to be able to enjoy what they do and be able to maybe not like everything they make, but enjoy the process, you know, because it's, you know, it's like that old saying, the real old saying it's not about the destination, it's about the journey, you know, it's about the journey of
00;31;02;16 - 00;31;23;15
Nick Tofani
this nation. And that's what it is with art, you know, it's about the process and not so much the final piece. And that's how our collectors really make out their whole spiel of why painting with some spots on it should be $5 million or whatever, because it's about the it's it's about the journey getting there and not the actual piece itself.
00;31;24;01 - 00;31;38;22
Nick Tofani
And I think that can be translated to like smaller stuff, like just drawing a face or something, you know, just finding like a new way to make a line and just being like something lights up in your brain. You're like, Oh, this, this rules. Like, I want to do more of this. I know I like art again.
00;31;38;26 - 00;31;41;19
Speaker 4
Yeah, but you know, basically that yeah.
00;31;41;20 - 00;32;08;01
Rob Lee
I don't know. I think the part that definitely sticks out and I agree with you, I think the part that that sticks out is that that sort of place just having a place, you know, I think that that lens leans into the capacity to create. If you're so focused on how you're going to form a studio for someone or for my living conditions and all of that, then you're taking a barista job that's going to take you away from or whatever, whatever it is.
00;32;08;01 - 00;32;19;20
Nick Tofani
Yeah. There's no shame in any sort of job. I mean, like, unless, you know, your job is killing puppies or something, then there's shame in that. But like, but even then, you know, you got to, you got to pay the bills.
00;32;21;19 - 00;32;22;10
Speaker 4
To make a living, to.
00;32;22;27 - 00;32;46;13
Nick Tofani
Make a living and to live. But yeah, it's Flintstones reference. Anyway, I've, uh, I don't know. It's tough because it's like you want to be able to live off VR, but realistically, especially nowadays with how many people are doing art and how many people, it's very competitive, you know, wanted to be competitive because art's about freedom of expression and being yourself.
00;32;46;13 - 00;32;58;04
Nick Tofani
And when it becomes a competition in your mind and like you're competing against other people, then you lose what's fun about it? And like, you know, you're not doing art for the sake of art. You're doing it for the sake of success. And I think if you.
00;32;58;25 - 00;32;59;02
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;32;59;03 - 00;33;02;27
Nick Tofani
If you do it for, you know, the enjoyment of it, then maybe the success will follow.
00;33;03;16 - 00;33;24;15
Rob Lee
And everybody's, everybody's different too. You know, I find that I could try to rip off your style and do that, but that's you. That is your style. But, you know, even then, that's where it goes back to the the whole way, I think like nothing new is being generated. It's already taking it for something that exists. And they're not Roy Lichtenstein and they're not doing that.
00;33;24;15 - 00;33;43;21
Rob Lee
They're, you know, it's something that that's different. It's something that is it's kind of the thing that happens in music a little bit. I think, you know, Frank Ocean was talking about it in the song about like, you know, it's artificial. You know, you have this pitch correction, you have all of these things. I want the rough edges.
00;33;44;00 - 00;33;50;29
Rob Lee
England, the no. You listen to a song, you hear the live version, and somehow that you like that version more than the album version.
00;33;51;13 - 00;33;52;02
Speaker 4
Yeah, it's.
00;33;52;05 - 00;33;53;21
Rob Lee
Feeling. There's a rawness in it.
00;33;54;04 - 00;33;55;26
Nick Tofani
There's soul in it, you know? Yeah.
00;33;56;07 - 00;33;57;27
Speaker 4
Absolutely.
00;33;57;27 - 00;34;00;27
Nick Tofani
And with a high art, there's no soul where it's a machine.
00;34;01;23 - 00;34;03;27
Rob Lee
It's ones and zeros. I didn't have those.
00;34;04;11 - 00;34;08;00
Nick Tofani
Yeah. I didn't ask for ones and zeros. I'm not a math person. I'm an art person. Get out of here.
00;34;08;10 - 00;34;08;19
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;34;09;19 - 00;34;29;17
Rob Lee
So, Wesley is the last real question I got for you. Sure. And again, this all ties. I think this is the kind of perfect culmination crescendo, if you will, of this portion. What advice would you give for someone who is considering pursuing a career in art and illustration, in horror? Specifically, what advice would you give them?
00;34;30;22 - 00;34;52;26
Nick Tofani
Don't worry so much about what everyone else thinks. And, you know, just do what scares you or makes you happy, you know, and just chase that sort of feeling that you had when you first got into art. And, you know, if you're just getting in it for the accolades, maybe it's not for you. Just just have fun with it.
00;34;53;02 - 00;34;56;18
Nick Tofani
Just have fun. And, you know, you'll find your people. And that's what matters.
00;34;58;03 - 00;34;59;10
Rob Lee
And I agree with that.
00;35;00;06 - 00;35;00;20
Speaker 4
All right.
00;35;01;18 - 00;35;13;12
Rob Lee
You know what time it is? It's time for the rapid fire portion. Well, so Rapid Fire, you know how this this whole thing goes. They're just quick questions. Don't overthink their phone questions now.
00;35;13;25 - 00;35;15;19
Nick Tofani
Okay, great.
00;35;15;19 - 00;35;23;09
Rob Lee
All right. So here's the first one. Describe your art style in three words.
00;35;23;09 - 00;35;25;10
Nick Tofani
Spooky, scary, creepy.
00;35;26;23 - 00;35;29;10
Rob Lee
Thank you. Sounds like you're describing booby, but thank you.
00;35;29;10 - 00;35;33;00
Nick Tofani
I am. I'm actually describing Count Chocula.
00;35;33;00 - 00;35;39;22
Rob Lee
They work. I work. So I guess this is the one I updated. What are your top three body horror movies?
00;35;40;12 - 00;35;45;09
Nick Tofani
Oh, okay. The Thing The Blob remake from 19.
00;35;45;09 - 00;35;46;02
Speaker 4
80.
00;35;46;20 - 00;35;52;09
Nick Tofani
Eight, I believe. Yes. And society.
00;35;52;09 - 00;35;54;14
Rob Lee
I've seen all of those society is ridiculous.
00;35;54;17 - 00;36;00;18
Nick Tofani
Yeah, it's insane. There's probably a better option there. But that was the first thing I thought of when I thought of body horror.
00;36;00;19 - 00;36;01;10
Speaker 4
So for a.
00;36;01;10 - 00;36;03;17
Rob Lee
Second I thought, you go see Suspiria. I was like, Oh.
00;36;03;29 - 00;36;04;14
Speaker 4
Oh.
00;36;04;18 - 00;36;10;27
Nick Tofani
I mean, you know, I would give it to Suspiria because the ending of the remake there is insane.
00;36;10;27 - 00;36;14;14
Rob Lee
I don't want to go out on a limb or anything.
00;36;14;14 - 00;36;15;18
Nick Tofani
That dream shot.
00;36;16;00 - 00;36;20;18
Rob Lee
Yeah, totally.
00;36;20;18 - 00;36;21;15
Speaker 4
So most of your stuff.
00;36;21;15 - 00;36;28;19
Rob Lee
I've seen is kind of monochromatic, right? Mostly black and white. You know, if you were to incorporate a color into your work, what color would it be?
00;36;29;18 - 00;36;31;20
Speaker 4
Red lettering.
00;36;32;00 - 00;36;33;22
Rob Lee
I could already know why. You know why?
00;36;33;29 - 00;36;36;13
Nick Tofani
Yeah. Yeah, because bulls hate it.
00;36;38;00 - 00;36;38;24
Rob Lee
Because lipstick.
00;36;39;06 - 00;36;43;23
Nick Tofani
Does lipstick. And I want people to want to kiss it. Red is the color of romance.
00;36;45;22 - 00;36;48;14
Rob Lee
In tomatoes because people throw a match. Yeah.
00;36;48;14 - 00;36;52;11
Speaker 4
And these little blue do too.
00;36;53;13 - 00;37;01;20
Rob Lee
Here's the I got. I got two more. Sure. So so Massachusetts right. What is your quintessential Massachusetts food?
00;37;02;04 - 00;37;16;17
Nick Tofani
Fish like? Just like fish and chips. We do a lot of that here. I know they do that in Seattle and stuff, too. And like Baltimore has like a lot of good seafood as well. But yeah, no, we've got good fish and chips that are good potatoes. A lot of Irish people out here.
00;37;19;02 - 00;37;22;05
Rob Lee
That's really got a lot of potatoes at five.
00;37;23;02 - 00;37;23;18
Speaker 4
And one.
00;37;24;01 - 00;37;38;21
Rob Lee
And there's the last one if you can. That's pretty great if you can turn any object in your room. So where you're currently at into a character, what would it be and what would his personality be like?
00;37;40;21 - 00;37;44;22
Nick Tofani
It's going to be this cap with bat wings because that's the first line I saw.
00;37;45;18 - 00;37;47;14
Speaker 4
Or it's going to be it's.
00;37;47;14 - 00;37;50;01
Nick Tofani
Going to be this little grimace and it's going to turn into the.
00;37;50;06 - 00;37;50;18
Speaker 4
Face.
00;37;51;09 - 00;37;54;07
Nick Tofani
And he's going to want to see all your milkshakes. I don't know, just like.
00;37;54;26 - 00;37;56;02
Speaker 4
Just a little, little.
00;37;56;02 - 00;37;58;19
Nick Tofani
Bat wing guy who just goes.
00;37;58;19 - 00;38;00;07
Speaker 4
I just this is my new.
00;38;00;07 - 00;38;04;28
Nick Tofani
Character that are workshopping right here right now. His name is I get blast it.
00;38;04;29 - 00;38;08;17
Speaker 4
It's it's a blast.
00;38;08;17 - 00;38;13;12
Rob Lee
That's ridiculous. That's really funny I think.
00;38;13;12 - 00;38;13;18
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;38;14;12 - 00;38;16;06
Rob Lee
So that's that's pretty much it.
00;38;17;05 - 00;38;18;23
Speaker 4
You know, I think we got it.
00;38;18;23 - 00;38;25;24
Rob Lee
I think we got it all covered. So what I, what I would like to do is two things. I'd like to thank you for being on this podcast.
00;38;26;23 - 00;38;27;20
Nick Tofani
Thank you for having me.
00;38;28;05 - 00;38;36;29
Rob Lee
Lots of laughter, giggles from from my end and two, I want to invite and encourage you to tell the folks where they can check you out. Social media website, all that good stuff.
00;38;37;19 - 00;38;38;08
Speaker 4
Your super.
00;38;38;23 - 00;39;01;04
Nick Tofani
Cool. So my Instagram handle is at Nicole Doodler. That's Nancy K EO Doodler, D.O.D. LR. I want a Nicole Doodle because I'm Nicole Doodle and everything else. But the lady who has that runs like, of, like she posts like a picture of food every five months. And I asked her if I could have it, I would pay her money for it and she said no and didn't say anything else.
00;39;01;04 - 00;39;21;13
Nick Tofani
And yeah, Nicole Doodle and everything else. You can also find me at every dot Nicole doodle dot com that's my a lot of my work is on there. So there you go. It's not a fancy website, but it is a portfolio. Yeah, it's really and also if you close your eyes and think of me, you can find me there in your heart.
00;39;22;04 - 00;39;22;13
Nick Tofani
Yeah.
00;39;22;13 - 00;39;25;03
Speaker 4
Beautiful space.
00;39;25;03 - 00;39;31;12
Rob Lee
That's great. So again, thank Nick Tiffany for coming on to the podcast. Nicole Do it all. Nicole Doodle. Nicole Doodle.
00;39;32;01 - 00;39;35;08
Speaker 4
Nicole I'm like Beetlejuice now, believe me.
00;39;36;06 - 00;39;39;16
Rob Lee
I won't say it five times. Video pop up in a mirror. It is like Day of I.
00;39;39;27 - 00;39;41;02
Nick Tofani
And then I got a hook for a.
00;39;41;02 - 00;39;41;14
Speaker 4
Hand.
00;39;43;07 - 00;39;56;02
Nick Tofani
Here's my question before we go. I know we're ending this, but I really got this is something that has always bugged me. Why does Candyman have that sick note? Like that's nothing to do with his backstory. He just has a sick ass fur coat for no reason.
00;39;56;11 - 00;39;57;02
Rob Lee
He went thrifting.
00;39;57;28 - 00;39;58;08
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;39;58;16 - 00;40;01;21
Nick Tofani
Like he died in, like, the fucking, like.
00;40;02;16 - 00;40;02;28
Speaker 4
Before.
00;40;02;28 - 00;40;10;11
Nick Tofani
Before jackets were even a thing, I imagine. And they're just like, what if I made Candyman, I don't know, look like a pimp? That'd be sick.
00;40;11;19 - 00;40;13;27
Rob Lee
I knew you going to say a pimp, by the way? Which is really funny.
00;40;15;18 - 00;40;19;15
Speaker 4
We were all thinking it, right? Well, be like, Oh.
00;40;21;04 - 00;40;23;22
Nick Tofani
Ellen, where's my money?
00;40;23;22 - 00;40;24;08
Speaker 4
He's just like.
00;40;24;28 - 00;40;25;14
Rob Lee
One of the other.
00;40;26;19 - 00;40;28;07
Speaker 4
The hooks doing it to something.
00;40;29;09 - 00;40;47;15
Rob Lee
That's really quite a great. So again, I want to thank you for being on this podcast. And I'm probably saying it is art culture in and around your neck of the woods. You just got to look forward.
