Exploring the Art World with Hrag Vartanian: Q&A with the Editor-in-Chief and Co-founder of Hyperallergic
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Speaker 1
Only a couple months down. I think I recognize.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
A welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today I'm here. All giggles. All giggles and teeth right now, because I have a great guest that all of my guests a great. But this one, this one that's really, really taking the cake. My next guest I'm really excited to introduce is an arts writer, art critic and art curator.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
He's the editor in chief and a co-founder of the Arts Online magazine Hyperallergic. Please welcome Hrag Vartanian. Welcome to the podcast.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Hey, Rob, Thank you so much for having me.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Thank you for coming on. It's it's really cool. I love I love the background, by the way, no one else can see this. So this is just for me, guys. I love the background. It's just so much great art behind, you know, just like, take a look. Right now, it's just all teeth.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, Yeah. No, it's just, you know, it's like we got to live with it, too, because, I mean, we love it, right? And we got to have it around us. And it's like and I don't understand people who live in empty homes or or even just live like, you know, with things they don't love. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, this is why we do it, right?
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
100%. I go back to years and years and years ago, and I'm going to get back to my actual introduction. But I want to share this. I was in my and my first apartment. It was a studio apartment, and literally it served two purposes. It was my studio and my studio apartment. Some like, look, my bed is right there, Don't disrespect that.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And I remember one of my friend that was in like one of these these patches where I just was feeling, like creatively stifled and wasn't sure if I want to continue podcasting. And he was telling me he's like, Why you walls bare? He's like, You need to have stuff here that you love. That was literally the piece of advice that I got.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So as you can see now, I it doesn't have any semblance to it. It's just my wall is littered. I want to have those red strings showing the connections, but my wall is littered with stuff that I just dig. And I think as things become more and more digital is the idea that playing with we're more aware of what we're bringing into our space, the tangibles, because things are so digital right?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And I don't know about you, but one of the things I love is I love bringing in things that I really haven't made up my mind about or something that's really obscure and I'm still trying to figure out because it gives me that chance to do that right? I want to push myself, right? I don't want just things that I just love purely.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I want things that are like, why am I uncomfortable with that sometimes? Why is that? Like, you know, it's like you want to keep keep kind of getting to that place where you're like, I want to be able to reevaluate what I think once in a while, Right?
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Speaker 4
Right. The same thing at all.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I try. I mean, I know I said before we started, I was going to admit that, but yeah, like I have here, I was very I did this period where I was painting once a month, a couple of years back, like six, seven years at this point. And I was doing a painting for a month and I was like, This is very heavy painting a long time.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So I don't know if I'm going to maintain those. Right? And I'm looking at them here and I'm like, Why did I choose to put these paintings in the studio versus some of the other paintings that I did are in other parts of the house, or I have maybe three pieces of found art, you know, ones like this framed magazine from like the eighties that just spoke to me for whatever reason.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And it's on this side of the studio, the stuff that's facing me. Whereas this stuff, this behind me maybe has like a different appeal or different reasoning.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Right? No, it's true. I think we all sort of grapple with this stuff and try to figure out what works for us.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Absolutely. So I want to go into some some questions or what have you, because I could just I could just ramble on and I'm a rambling, rambling.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Rob Not at all. Come on, let's do it. So I can't wait to get into it.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So if you will, very introductory level, could you share like ultimately like your story and if you can include in there, like how did Hyperallergic come to be? What was your initial your initial thinking?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Sure. Well, thanks. Thanks for that question. You know, so a little bit about my background. I was born in Syria, raised in Canada, I've lived in Lebanon, moved to New York afterwards, been here like about 20 years or so to kind of give you a little bit of the arc of like where I've lived, you know, And I think as a kid, one of the things I really sort of was exposed to was different kinds of museums around the world, right?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
My my parents sent me to summer camp in the Soviet Union, believe it or not. And I saw Soviet museums. I visited family in Syria and saw museums there. I saw museums here. And I realized as a kid these were really cool, but they were all telling really different stories. And then I got into art history because I realized my passion was not just writing, but writing about art and being kind of connected with the visual thing.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And I always try to tell people that my passion is text and image in that relationship. So you could imagine as an art writer, it's sort of a good fit. Yeah, but then I left graduate school hating art, or at least feeling like I hated art because I felt like this sort of like all the theorizing and different things kind of ripped out the pleasure of it.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And I felt like I was just intellectualizing everything. And that's not really why I got into things. As important as that is, I didn't want that to be like sort of my first reaction to things. So it took me a while to get back into it. And then I started writing an article about art again a few years afterwards when I ended up in New York.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, it's hard to avoid art in New York. You know, it's sort of like one of those things. It was just, you know, I got back into it, slowly started writing, but then I realized that there wasn't a place for the ideas I wanted to pursue and the kinds of ideas that I was interested in. But also, you know, at the time I was dating who's currently my husband, Deacon, who's the publisher of Hyperallergic, and, you know, he's an educated guy who has many advanced degrees, but he really didn't enjoy any of the art writing and he didn't understand it.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And he was just sort of like, I don't get why I should care about this. Right? And I realized there was a real sort of, you know, clearly there was something not working here, Right. Where if someone like him who loves art, you know, who loves going to museums, felt like there wasn't something for him to really sort of learn about art in a real engaged, passionate way.
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Speaker 4
You know.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
On my side, it was also a venue for art, but also one that was unapologetically dealing with politics. Right. And not as like this side thing that it's something art does once in a while. It's as an integral part looking at the system and what the system is and how it works and and the types of images we circulate and why and why certain artists, you know, excel over others and all these types of ideas.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So he introduced me to blogging really at first, and I got really I loved it. I was like a fish to water. I was like, Oh, this is awesome. I love this, I love this. And I got and I realized that it was a real missing part of the work I did. Because often as writers will write something and, you know, it'll be published in a few years or in a few months, and sometimes you even forgot you wrote it.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
By the time it comes out, it becomes one of these things. You're like, Oh, right, that was five months ago or something. And, and I didn't feel like that was a productive way to have conversations. Frankly, I wanted to have much more real time conversations around art and online became that place at the same time. Nobody was getting paid for online writing at the time, and if it was, it was sort of super rare.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So we were like, okay, let's try this. Let's see where this goes. We can. What had this passion about? He wanted to get writers paid because obviously his partner was a writer.
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Speaker 4
But.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
You need to get that money. They like to get it right.
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Speaker 4
So we were like.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Okay, let's start. And worst comes to worst, this will lead to other projects for us, right? Like I could get a job editing, you can get a job building websites or something. And so we sort of started that way and then we realized quickly that there was a real there was a real hunger for this. And what we were doing in terms of creating digital native conversations around art and visual culture that were unapologetically political, that were engaged, that were not afraid to have strong opinions.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I mean, just today we published a really strong review of a book about Tibetan art that, you know, essentially calls it the equivalent of like, you know, sexual tourism in a way, you know, visual art, like a visual kind of like publications don't normally do that, right? You know, they don't they don't do that. And I have a lot of complicated ideas of why I think public, because I think people think there is certain forces that don't exist when they attribute to why there are no negative reviews.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
But if you want to get into that, we're happy to do that. So so we created this publication and for the first three and a half years, I had a I had a job. You know, we needed my health care. We needed, you know, we needed all that we can did side gigs. And he did a lot of consulting and we had to pay the bills.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And but at the same time, from day one, we decided we're going to be as professional as possible and keep raising the bar. Right? And so we had our first full time employee, I think at year three, even before I went full time, believe it or not. Then we sort of started, you know, hiring people, slowly realized that there was a way to sort of sustain this slowly.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And then this, you know, the whole system changed, which frankly made online even more important. So we could kind of excel. And then I think with the pandemic, people's behaviors have all gone online. So, you know, even the stragglers that were like being really shy about it, and that really helped supercharge what we do. And now it's it's we you know, we're passionate about, you know, we have 13 full time employees.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You know, they have four one KS. We just raised our freelance rates. So now we're paying from 250 to $500 for our you know, it's like and like if if you asked me eight years ago if we could do that, even where we've been around 13 years, I would have been like, I hope so.
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Speaker 4
It's great.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Like last year we had we added parental leave to our benefits. You know, it's like all these things. We're like, okay, how are we going to make how are we going to raise the bar so that the field also, we'd like to change this whole narrative that writing just doesn't pay at all, or this idea idea that the anything in the art world is like charity, you know, and that we're all underpaid.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I think we need to change that, right? But in order for that to change, it's also got to we also have to think of our roles a little bit as as connected to an audience and a public. And I think one thing in our field we often don't think enough about is our audiences, you know, because we expect our audience just to like, kind of come along with whatever we do and just applaud.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And that's just not the way it works, you know, that's not the way you work with an audience, right? And so I think that's something that we've been really passionate about. So that's a very short answer.
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Speaker 4
I hope that works.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I'm happy to elaborate on.
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Speaker 4
Anything.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
That I was that was great. And I definitely saw a sort of like correlation. I go back to this this, this one part where and the thought that happened, I would only go back to the thought that I'm having as as the person is speaking because it's like, okay, I relate in that way. And this this notion where there is an appetite for sort of talking in an authentic way about this.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And that's how I think in sort of this podcast of well over 500 episodes at this point, most of them kind of took off. Thank you. It was hard to get them early on, and it started in 2019, the end of 2019. But once 2020 happened, it's like, Oh, I have a place as an artist where I can just speak like candidly about my work, but also about who I am as a person.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And there's an appetite for that in and I think just kind of shifting it like you go to certain podcasts or certain people who are talking about art or talking to artists, and I hear this all the time from from writers to visual artists, so on there, they're like, Yeah, I've had the same conversations with all of these different outlets.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Yours is different, though. I was like, hopefully good, you know?
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Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Well, I think also just, you know, I think what we both did really was we responded by like listening and like responding to what people were looking for, right? You came up at a time where people were then eager for a conversation like this. Right. And we came up at a time where social media had started being a big thing and people wanted like this information in their feeds in different way.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And we were really kind of both of us were listening. Right. And and we're we're responding to an audience. And I think that's why, you know, audiences respond to what we do because they know someone's listening. And I think unfortunately, a lot of publications and podcasts and others are all about just broadcasting information to other people rather than being engaged with other people.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
You know, people will ask, you know, where or are you? I've had conversations with a few curators and like, this is done very well, this is great and so on. Technically, this is sound, but where's the US that's not speaking? Where is the feeling? Or even going back to one of the things you said earlier, I had a I have a person that I relate to as my boss in the day job.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
We all have those. And I was telling them like what I was doing. I was like, Yeah, I'm going to take a couple of days off. I got some interviews to do in different states. I know you're doing that now. I was like, I am. And she's like, I don't get art part stop. And I was I was like, I don't know what to say.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
There was like, Oh, someone says, I don't get music. And it's like, it's a broad. It's a very broad thing.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Well, I mean, I think sometimes and that's a really good point, Rob. It's like I think sometimes people what they're saying when they're saying that is I want to I had nobody who's had the patience to work with me through this, you know, And it's like I think about like what were my experiences that I were able to do that.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And they weren't necessarily with art in the traditional way. Like with my mom, it was with handicrafts in the crafts she would do and like the needlework and stuff. But I was able to like, develop an appreciation for something that I didn't quite understand. Right. And I think that kind of started the tools for me of like somebody just had to sit me down and be like, okay, you may not get this, but this is why it's important.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Even if you don't like it, like, you know, it's like there's there's a certain kind of process that kind of goes along with that.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for that. This is going well.
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Speaker 4
Okay.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So can we talk about why there why there's less negative criticism in the world? Can we just.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
We can or. Yes, we absolutely can.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Make Blake theory. Just I want to because I have never talked really about this. So it's like this is kind of like just do your podcast like, you know, right now, unless I write something later about it. But I think it's because most people don't have the emotional maturity to deal with it. I think that's really the reason it doesn't happen.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
People don't want the feedback. Like if you write something critical in the world and someone doesn't agree with you, which is going to inevitably be happen with strong opinions, right? People don't have the ability to process that because so many people in our field are really just doing it to be liked by other people. How's that? How's that?
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
No, I like that. I like that in you know, I kind of I share a show that where I've talked to folks and I start asking questions of like, where's the audience in the most macro sense, in your within your process? Are you considering them at all? No. Which is kind of like. But you're putting out there, though.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
That's right. So it has to be at least a consideration even when I'm doing this. And I was very like, No, this is for me, man. No one knows because I've been doing it at that point for about ten years before putting it out there for like, this is definitely done with an intention of. I think this is a community thing that connects people in that way.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So people want to share that feedback. They feel invested in that way and he feel connected to me to whatever degree that they they feel comfortable with. Like, Oh yeah, that's Rob right now. See this big guy and he knows I have to be mindful of that when I'm putting out content and even when I'm putting out interviews, it's even considerate of like the artist as well because they are sometimes.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Whereas like you, you don't come off sounding great here. You sure you don't want to rerecord this or I think this might do more harm than good while still trying to maintain authenticity. You know, you don't want to have ears, you know, that sort of editorial thing. Hey, here's this thing I'm going to write. You review it before I put it out.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
It's what? That's that's great. I'm glad because, you know, that's exactly what happens sometimes. It's like with artists. Sometimes they don't know how to describe their own work and they're still working through the ideas. So you want to give them the space to do that without like, shooting themselves in the foot, right? Like to be like, Well, okay, but you may be talking like that in your studio, but you know, we're talking public, right?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
It's so it's like, you know, take a second think about being.
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Speaker 4
Able to post said.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I'm a fan of that. I'm a fan of it.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So I want to I want to get this this from you since I think this is kind of the trajectory in which the conversation is shifting toward like from an art and from an artist arts advocacy lens. What are like three things aside from money, I think money's too easy, right? That that artists need today. I like to get a sense on that question because, you know, people say, oh, you know, they need space and the opportunity to create and so on.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
But what's your take in that area?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I think the thing that a lot of artists are looking for that they sometimes don't want to admit is a sense of community. And I think that's what kind of art school often does for them, right? It creates a sense of community from disparate people who may not have met any other way in their lives. Right. And I think a lot one of the things I've seen, especially in the last ten years that concerns me, I have to admit, is that sense of neighborhood art neighborhoods is kind of dissipating the way to like here I live in Williamsburg.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Like Williamsburg was a neighborhood 20 years ago, right where there were artists and people would be going to each other's openings and stuff, you know, Then, you know, Bushwick was one of the others, right? But the sense of neighborhood isn't sort of forming in the same way it used to. And I think that's a real that's going to be a problem.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Like I don't think online is going to be able to supplement.
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Speaker 4
All that.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And sure, it allows people who may live in more regional places or far away from sort of the core, the so-called centers of the art world that helps them sort of feel connected. But I do think like even in the in in major hubs, that sense of community is being frayed a little bit. And I think that's a real problem because, I mean, you need it.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You need you need that. Like, you know, if you want to if you learn from each other about technique or you want to support each other or doing unpopular work or whatever, it's like that's going to happen because of a sense of community. Right? At the end of the day, someone's going to make you tea when you come home or someone is going to invite you over for their like dogs birthday or whatever, You know, it's like, but that's the sense of community, right?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
That's going to that's, that's, you know, so you can kind of leave yourself. So I think that's a one of the big things. The other thing is I think there needs to be like artists, as much as I love this idea of artists being in the same boat, I think we have to just accept that the field is big enough that all artists are not in the same boat, right?
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Paper. You know, some people come from extreme privilege and you know, and what I call like they try to like, you know, pretend that they're don't or something or other people. Like, I think we have to understand there are different kinds of artists and they serve different purposes and not that one is more valid than the other, but they're not the same thing.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You know, it's like if you're an artist that's trying to push the envelope esthetically in different ways, you're not the same as someone who's doing like, you know, portraits or something, like in a more conventional way. And I'm not saying that to discount them, but I do think we have to think of the field more diversely, but in the same time, more expansively.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So like for instance, a lot of art people don't consider illustrators part of our field, and I actually think they're part of our field, you know, absolutely. As well as some other people that people don't traditionally associate with artists. So that's another thing. Like I think there has to be both a complexity in our thinking about what an artist is and who they are, but also in not sort of just throwing them all in the same boat, you know, and that.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So and now my third point, let's see about what artists need. You know, I don't know whether I would love artists to think more beyond objects. I think there is still a fixation on objects in our field, and I think we need to start diversifying what artists can do beyond creating objects. And not that artists aren't doing that because I think they are.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
But I don't think the popular the the audience or the popular imagination has gone there yet, you know? So and this is what I mean by that. Like, like we can't I don't think we're going to sustain the field in a way that we all are still loving it If all we're doing is selling luxury commodities. Right. I think an artist should be able to do a residency at a hospital and like, you know, figure out a way to, like, make people's lives more interesting and esthetically challenging and different things.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I think artists should be, you know, involved in maybe with teaching with students in different ways. And and I just think we have to expand what those ideas can be.
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Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So thank you. I like The Expanse in there. And again, as I'm taking notes because this is absolutely the version that I'm looking for here, it's like, Oh yeah, these are different questions. All of my questions are gone now. I just have a whole series of different questions now.
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Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
But I'm willing to go in any direction you want.
00;21;34;07 - 00;21;54;19
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Absolutely. And and I think I think you're 100% right there where, you know, I think being able to stretch what the boundaries are like. I, I tell people when I'm doing this, like I'm somewhere in the middle. I have this sort of spot where I'm an outsider. It's like I'm helping facilitate the storytelling. That's that's the way I like to look at what I do.
00;21;55;00 - 00;22;11;08
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And but when it comes to sort of funding and trying to grow it to, all right, maybe these folks should be in this conversation. Are we all know that's art enough. Like maybe we should talk to this muralist or this this painter or what have you know, it's like, that's great. Or if you want funding, you should really think about doing it this way.
00;22;11;08 - 00;22;30;03
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's like, That's not what I'm doing. Have you have you thought about video? It's not what I'm doing. Like I'm doing these sorts of things and this is why I'm doing it. And but I find I've talked to people who are like artistically inclined, who are in the field, who are doing various things, whether it be photographers, whether it be filmmakers.
00;22;30;09 - 00;22;43;29
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I look at what your work is, is anthropology or journalism or this or that. Talk to folks that are in a sort of funding space in terms of what do artists need? Yeah, we don't know where to classify you. We don't really have that in our our makeup career currently.
00;22;43;29 - 00;22;48;20
Speaker 4
That's that there's the issue there. There is the two categories.
00;22;49;03 - 00;22;51;29
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
The category still. There's still are like checklists, right?
00;22;52;27 - 00;23;23;16
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's the bucketing thing that that happens. And folks at times want to be safe. And I think you have to push boundaries. And I'm a tinkerer, you know, and I'm looking for like, all right, how can I do this in a different way? As I was describing a little bit before we got started. And I think the other thing that comes to mind you, you're making the sort of comparison with like artists and like how like where they're sort of listing where they're sort of bucketed or have you I immediately started thinking of coffee, right?
00;23;24;08 - 00;23;36;04
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I look at coffee shops and I think if someone has their they do their own roasting. I classify them differently as someone. I just I get beans from this place and I have this sort of ambiance perfect.
00;23;36;04 - 00;23;39;10
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I think you're absolutely, exactly like this is a Starbucks.
00;23;39;20 - 00;23;40;00
Speaker 4
And that.
00;23;40;01 - 00;23;57;12
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
This is you know, this is a really nice coffee shop that's dealing with like, you know, small growers in Ecuador. You know what I mean? It's not the same thing, you know, And the reality is there's a palette for everyone and and that's great, but I'm not going to pretend like Starbucks is the same as that amazing Ecuadorian coffee.
00;23;57;16 - 00;24;00;13
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You know what I mean? So, yeah, I'm with you.
00;24;01;00 - 00;24;25;14
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So I've been in one of the things you said also that really got my I had to pull up by the book again because I've really been into this book, The Death of the Artist book. And I enjoy that because it's like, Oh, I see these things happening around me. And this this trajectory is happening and the sort of like art centers or what have you, and the conversation in the book as an audiobook down, it's the only way I can.
00;24;25;14 - 00;24;26;11
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Everything is audio for me.
00;24;27;03 - 00;24;29;04
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I love audiobooks. I'm a huge audiobook fan.
00;24;29;10 - 00;24;50;11
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
But we'll be talking about the little later probably. I remember it was this talk around this part around like Philadelphia and Baltimore being sort of those secondary hubs that folks are really kind of gravitating toward. And I it's funny because I'm doing a series of interviews that it does in Philadelphia, and I'm based in Baltimore, so I'm seeing it in real time.
00;24;50;11 - 00;25;03;10
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And a place is a little further ahead from from your vantage point where do you see like this, the certain like art centers? Like where's the the very truly interesting stuff being made, whether it be location, whether it be demographically speaking.
00;25;03;27 - 00;25;22;08
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. You know, I think at the end of the day, the centers are still holding in the way they are and not not because I think there is as I mean, I think the realistic reason is just in these big hubs, there's just more diverse ways of making money. Right. And that's part of the issue. Like in Philadelphia.
00;25;22;08 - 00;25;48;07
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yes. You can teach at a school you maybe, but you can't really sell art in Philadelphia very much like there isn't a huge market you still have to show elsewhere. Right. And if you're galleries in New York, it's just easier to be close. That's just the reality of it. So I think what I'm seeing is there's definitely a lot of artists that are going more disparate places, but they're still feeling connected and technology's allowing them to stay connected with with with these different things.
00;25;48;14 - 00;26;13;29
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
The other thing is the one positive thing about crypto, because I think there's been a lot of negative about crypto is that places like when I was in a panel a few a few months ago that was based in Berlin, you know, like you had people from Kigali and Rwanda and like Manila and Philippines sort of saying like, well, that's really helped us make a living, you know, because now we can sell and and swap work in a much easier way.
00;26;14;25 - 00;26;34;05
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So I think we're going to see a strengthening of these sort of wider networks. Right. But I still think the centers are holding because of just the diversity of making money, like in New York, like why am I in New York is the biggest art center. Yes. It's not the one world capital, but it's still the biggest art center in the world, you know?
00;26;34;05 - 00;26;56;16
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So what does that mean? It doesn't mean that necessarily the best work is being made here forever. That's not what I'm talking about. It's. It means we have the auction houses, we have the schools, we have the art historians, we have the artists, we have the media here is headquartered here. We have like all those aspects that can allow you to make a living right in a different way, like, Hey, you can work at a gallery.
00;26;56;16 - 00;27;17;03
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
There are 600 galleries in New York. You know, it's like and I think the that diverse ification has been really good for the field, but at the same time, the the centers are still holding. So now at the same time that's not to say that the diversity of work doesn't mean that there's going to be a diversification of like geographies.
00;27;17;09 - 00;27;38;24
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So, for instance, you know, we've definitely seen in the last few years a real boom in black diasporic art, you know, partly driven by social realities and the social conversations that are beyond the art world, you know, But also because there's been decades of people working at it. Right. Like, I don't want to say that is just because, like, you know, the protests or anything like that that change it.
00;27;38;24 - 00;27;56;18
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
It's because, you know, their art historians that have been working on this for decades and there have been artists that are working for decades and there are auction houses that have been trying to foster appreciation for certain kinds of work. And there are different kinds of things that are factors that are going on. So we're all just a small part of this bigger puzzle, right?
00;27;57;12 - 00;28;15;26
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
But at the same time, there are there like I can't say like, oh, wow, there's a lot of great work just being made in Denver, you know, because I. Denver, yes, there's some good work being made there, but we're just as networked as everyone else. So and most of the time, artists aren't staying in one place anymore.
00;28;16;20 - 00;28;18;06
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's the altitude at the end of the day.
00;28;18;06 - 00;28;27;03
Speaker 4
And yeah, exactly, exactly. That's exactly it. FLAVIN Yeah, that's right.
00;28;27;03 - 00;28;49;05
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So so I think it's I think the other thing is the be for some of us with like passports that can allow us to travel, you know, we're kind of moving around a lot more, too. And that's also part of this that I think like residencies are exposing artists to different parts of the world. I did a residency at Log Haven in Knoxville last year, for instance.
00;28;49;16 - 00;29;10;19
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
That was a whole different art scene that I had been exposed to. And I really love that, you know, and so but at the same time, those artists are in dialog, right, with artists in New York in a way that maybe 40, 50 years ago would not have been as prevalent. Right. You're in Baltimore. Baltimore doesn't feel far at all anymore, you know, the way that it even did maybe 20 years ago.
00;29;11;05 - 00;29;30;20
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. And and that's the thing that and thank you thank you for sharing that observation your thoughts there because I kind of struggle with it where, you know, I see people that I interview, people that I talk to trying to be very cognizant of what's the scene. And especially when like Basil's gone, I was like, oh, let's let's see who's who's open for an interview.
00;29;30;20 - 00;29;46;16
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, it's it's a different vibe. And I was like, if I were down there, would I be able to network in a different way? Because I've gone to places and gone to events conferences for the sort of networking vibe of who are the people to connect with because, you know, I think this is where that sort of journalistic thing comes in.
00;29;46;16 - 00;29;56;08
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Where's the story? Who's got things that are interesting and in seeking it and sometimes, you know, you sold a bill of goods that it just doesn't quite work and quite connect in.
00;29;57;00 - 00;29;57;18
Speaker 4
I'm like, I.
00;29;57;18 - 00;30;15;05
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Can't get an interview here. This is not the time or the place. I can hand out a card, but it's real tangible things, but it doesn't quite work in that way. And I found that, you know, being able to at least be around and I think part of it is I've recently watched a velvet Buzzsaw, so I'm kind of like, Oh.
00;30;15;05 - 00;30;15;14
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;30;15;21 - 00;30;35;10
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
That's the top of mind right now. But my partner, she was like, You should watch this because I feel like you're around in this space a little bit more than you give yourself credit for. But yeah, it's, you know, being there with folks because I'm very like beginning going back to this idea that I'm not of it. I'm around it, I'm facilitating some of these things.
00;30;35;24 - 00;30;38;00
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
And just like Ari, that's way too cool.
00;30;38;00 - 00;30;38;18
Speaker 4
Kids, right?
00;30;38;27 - 00;30;39;21
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I'm going to push back.
00;30;39;21 - 00;30;40;12
Speaker 4
Rob, please.
00;30;40;20 - 00;30;41;20
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Are you not part of it?
00;30;42;02 - 00;30;42;11
Speaker 4
Oh.
00;30;42;23 - 00;30;46;14
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I don't know if I am. I don't think I've earned it yet in that way.
00;30;46;22 - 00;30;48;05
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Well, who's going to give it to you?
00;30;48;26 - 00;30;50;21
Speaker 4
This is true. This is I mean.
00;30;50;22 - 00;31;06;29
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I just I just want to point this out because we also work in a field where everyone thinks they're an outsider. And and yes, we're outsiders, but we're not. Do you know, it's like at a certain point, it's like, no one's going to hand this to you. No one's going to hand you a form that says, okay, Rob, you're you're in it.
00;31;07;10 - 00;31;08;04
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You're in it to win it.
00;31;08;26 - 00;31;12;03
Speaker 4
In the mail. It's coming, right? Really? Yeah.
00;31;12;04 - 00;31;29;22
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I mean, you kind of have to claim it in a way. You know, it's like and and I mean, I don't know why you would say you're not part of it. You're absolutely part of it. You know, so and and I think when we say we're not part of it, sometimes we're giving up our power. And I see no reason for you to give up your power.
00;31;30;02 - 00;31;37;24
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And I mean, that's not to say that like we are the central part of the conversation around art, but we are. But that's not but that's not to say we don't influence it.
00;31;38;11 - 00;32;03;12
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
No, You know, you're right. And thank you for that. I needed that because, yeah, I think sometimes we I definitely do this thing of I'm nobody and it's like, no, you're somebody you're you're the guy you're the guy to talk to. And yeah, I think I think you're you're right where you're all giving a piece of piece of that sort of power and this sort of acknowledgment away and you know, with the whole manifestation angle, when you put that out there, it's like, Yeah, why should I listen to this person?
00;32;03;12 - 00;32;05;09
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
He doesn't think he's good or whatever.
00;32;05;27 - 00;32;22;19
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I mean, I think I mean, like why I'm on your podcast. It's because I was like, Here's someone who's serious, who's clearly taking this seriously, having serious, interesting conversations, also being light about it sometimes. And, you know, and I was like, and people respond to that, right? I didn't need to see your CV. I didn't need to see what you did for the art world.
00;32;22;28 - 00;32;38;02
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Do you know that's not that's that was an interesting to me. I don't care. Do you know? So, like, I just want to sort of say, this is how we support and validate each other to be like, okay, you know, I think what you're doing is really cool. I may not necessarily understand everything you're doing, but that's cool.
00;32;38;14 - 00;32;40;09
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
No, I. I'm along for the ride.
00;32;40;22 - 00;33;03;11
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Well, thank you. Thank you. So I got one last real question, and then I got these these Rapidfire questions that are ridiculous. So, you know, I've read several times that artists need time to just, like, mess around and not do anything. And I you know, to quote that book or that book, creativity, right. People just people who keep themselves busy all the time are not really creative.
00;33;03;23 - 00;33;14;28
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
What are your thoughts on those sort of like observations around like this convergence of being creative, pushing out content versus art and this sort of hustle mindset that people would push toward?
00;33;15;18 - 00;33;16;03
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;33;16;10 - 00;33;20;07
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Ooh, Well, you asked me this question at a perfect time last year.
00;33;20;25 - 00;33;21;22
Speaker 4
Last year I took.
00;33;21;22 - 00;33;43;08
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I last year I took a three month sabbatical, the first break I'd ever taken, and it's probably the first three months I've ever had off in my life, you know. So it was like it was a big it was a big deal. And the thing that I realized, one, we just have to remember that some of us hustle because we have to write like there were no there was no way we could have built Hyperallergic by then.
00;33;43;08 - 00;34;02;21
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Hustle at work seven days a week just wasn't going to happen, you know? Now, thankfully, I don't work seven days a week, but like at a certain point that was kind of necessary. So I think hustle with a purpose is great, you know? But what the problem is, I think a lot of us are hustling with no purpose in mind, and it just feels like it's sort of endless, do you know?
00;34;02;21 - 00;34;19;23
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And that's when it becomes Sisyphean, right? Like we're always pushing the rock up the hill and then it's sort of like and we're down at the bottom of the hill again, you know, and we're pushing it up again. And and I think I think the hustle is is really sort of deadly. And I think that's when we get burned out.
00;34;20;05 - 00;34;42;19
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Right. But I think as long as we have a goal in mind and realistic expectations to what that would be. Right. I think there's nothing wrong with hustling because that's unfortunately some of us that don't come from certain privileged backgrounds like have to do, you know, like just like if you don't have enough money for something, that means you're going to do it yourself, you know, and and you're just going to do it.
00;34;42;26 - 00;35;03;29
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And this is where like, we don't want to get caught in that cycle, which is so deadly. And I don't think. But at the same time, we need time to dream and we need time to like imagine new things and we have to, like, figure out ways to get rid of them. Right. And and figure out how we're going to function with them.
00;35;04;24 - 00;35;25;26
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
To give you an idea, like during my sabbatical and I finally had a break here, I thought, like, because I'd been I've had bad sleep most of my life and especially the last ten years, and I thought it was related to work because, you know, you think, okay, busy work, stressful job, whatever. And I realized that it was like during my break that it had nothing to do with work.
00;35;25;26 - 00;35;44;09
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And there was other stuff going on, and I just dealt with that. But if I hadn't taken a break, it wouldn't have helped me understand what's going on right in our own lives and in our own relationships to things and our own love of art. I was able to go explore ruins in New Mexico that like, really expanded my mind in many ways.
00;35;44;17 - 00;36;14;07
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Do you know and those breaks are what replenish us sometimes. And I think that's one thing as artists and curators and and people in our field, we don't appreciate enough is is like those breaks and those like we're often the people going out into the world and finding things right and finding new esthetics and finding new ideas and finding these, that takes time and it takes a certain sensitivity so that we don't just like bring it back and make it a commodity immediately.
00;36;14;17 - 00;36;35;00
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Right. And that that is a deadly cycle that unfortunately I think some people are stuck in, right where it's always about like going out and like bringing back this thing that you can kind of be like, you know, with bells and whistles on and sort of like make it into like a thing. And I want us to like sort of take a break and take it a little slower.
00;36;35;00 - 00;36;51;14
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
But at the same time, I'm not a huge fan of this idea of slowness because I think some of us are just into fast, you know, like, I think that's a thing, you know, like, I think the process differently we're all different. Some of us are neurodivergent, some of us aren't, you know, all these types of things. We process things differently.
00;36;51;17 - 00;37;20;11
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So I don't also want to make it a11 like solution because I think this is sort of like the hustles for some people, some types of work work really well that way for whatever reason. B Maybe that's part of their whole concept and their their ideas, but then other people know they're making like three paintings a year and that's their thing and they're incredible and they want to slow down and sort of not be engaged in the hustle at all.
00;37;20;18 - 00;37;35;17
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Some people want to keep their day jobs and they want to do the work on the side so it doesn't get like, you know, solid or whatever. I mean, you know, I love using the example of the graffiti artist. Rob's here in New York. He's been a huge figure for 30 years, and he's a giant in the field.
00;37;35;27 - 00;37;54;14
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
He's never sold a single work and he refuses to well, and he's done work. He, he like, welds things to like fences in New York. He he's written his diaries in the tunnels of New York. He's done all like, you know, you even see it on the on the High line. One of his big roller pieces is right by the High Line.
00;37;54;23 - 00;38;08;20
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And, you know, and he just refuses. And that's not because it's just it isn't what he wants to do, right. He just makes work. He has a day job. He makes his work when he wants to. Puts it in the context he wants to use.
00;38;08;20 - 00;38;10;11
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
AP this freedom.
00;38;10;29 - 00;38;15;12
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, that's right. Freedom. Freedom. Right. It's like he's not interested in that hustle.
00;38;15;23 - 00;38;17;02
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Yeah. Thank you.
00;38;17;02 - 00;38;22;11
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And he easily sell his work. People have been dying to buy his work, but he does not interested.
00;38;22;11 - 00;38;33;12
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
That's. That's. That's great. It's a lot like I'm going to listen to this episode a couple of times. I can already see it because I'm. I'm getting so much. It's like just different crumbs falling into my hands. So. So thank you. Thank you for having me.
00;38;33;13 - 00;38;35;06
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
This is because you're a good interviewer.
00;38;35;09 - 00;38;35;25
Speaker 4
Well, thank you.
00;38;36;15 - 00;39;00;26
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
It was like this is but this is like I'm just sort of like I want to remind people that with these things because it's like, you know, we're all part of a community and we have to support each other, right? Like a healthy ecosystem is going to help all of us. It's not a winner take all scene, at least not in my world, you know, And it's just like so it's like even the kind of questions you're asking, like, I love them, but I mean, I'm here so keep going.
00;39;02;06 - 00;39;03;05
Speaker 4
Well, well.
00;39;03;13 - 00;39;14;04
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Here we are, though, at this juncture where all of the goodwill that I've established here with these and sort of meaningful now going to go out of the window with these rapid fire questions, because they argue that.
00;39;14;04 - 00;39;14;19
Speaker 4
Wait.
00;39;14;23 - 00;39;16;03
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I can't wait. Okay. Break them.
00;39;16;16 - 00;39;26;13
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
All right. So I got I got I got a couple of them. So very, very quickly for you, have you gotten further with street smarts of book smarts?
00;39;27;18 - 00;39;28;25
Speaker 4
Woo hoo.
00;39;29;11 - 00;39;31;06
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
That's a good one. I think Street smarts.
00;39;31;19 - 00;39;38;01
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Street smarts. Street smarts is almost undefeated. It's only been one person when I've asked this question was actually big book smarts.
00;39;38;18 - 00;39;40;04
Speaker 4
Yeah, I think street smarts.
00;39;40;04 - 00;39;50;10
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
The streak continues, both figuratively and literally. Cannonball into a pool or dip your toe into a pool.
00;39;50;10 - 00;39;51;00
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Cannonball.
00;39;52;00 - 00;39;59;15
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I like it. I like it. I like the belly flop. Just good likes to stomach first, like, look everything like a podcast. My stomach is on. A microphone is great.
00;39;59;15 - 00;40;00;18
Speaker 4
It's like.
00;40;02;15 - 00;40;05;15
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Name a superpower. You would like to try for 24 hours.
00;40;06;06 - 00;40;11;04
Speaker 4
You. Oh, that's a good one.
00;40;12;02 - 00;40;17;14
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
It's tough because I grew up reading comic books and superhero stuff, so it's like there's so many cool.
00;40;17;14 - 00;40;18;11
Speaker 4
Superpowers.
00;40;18;21 - 00;40;32;01
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Out there I would love to be able to fly. I think flying is sort of undefeated in that, but like I want to be able to like, be able to fly anywhere for like, you know, just for a little while. But 24 hours, I don't know. Would I even be able to get around the world?
00;40;32;03 - 00;40;37;20
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I don't think you can fly, but very slowly.
00;40;37;20 - 00;40;38;02
Speaker 4
But I know at.
00;40;38;02 - 00;40;42;18
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
That point you're like, okay, I'm over Ocean for like half the time. What's the point? You know, it's.
00;40;42;18 - 00;40;46;07
Speaker 4
Like, Oh, no, my opposed to 24 hours. That's right.
00;40;46;12 - 00;40;49;20
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I like and he was never seen again over the over the Pacific.
00;40;50;00 - 00;41;02;04
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
But it absolutely tracks though in terms of what you were saying earlier about checking out the ruins in New Mexico, it's like you're being able to explore and see more things in flight in the other move and maybe be teleportation or something. Dual Nightcrawler.
00;41;02;11 - 00;41;02;19
Speaker 4
Find.
00;41;02;28 - 00;41;08;15
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
That would be fun. You know I think that would be the other is like the power to change people's minds. That would be.
00;41;09;11 - 00;41;21;13
Speaker 4
Just be like you. You should make if you have confidence. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Thanks. You know that's a good artwork.
00;41;21;13 - 00;41;21;20
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Don't.
00;41;22;26 - 00;41;24;12
Speaker 4
Don't, don't keep working on it.
00;41;25;00 - 00;41;34;05
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Stop. Now, what is something that is funny that because you know what we just mentioned? What is something that without fail makes you laugh?
00;41;35;10 - 00;41;54;14
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Whew. Ah, here. Actually, this is kind of relevant to our conversation or what makes me laugh now is when I go to art schools and, and, and everyone wants permission to do something. And I feel like that makes me laugh. Like it's like I was like, who am I to give you permission? You know, like.
00;41;54;14 - 00;41;55;00
Speaker 4
And it's like.
00;41;55;12 - 00;42;12;23
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
It's like, I remember once, like when artist was telling me about this really tragic thing with their parent, one of their parents, and like, asking my opinion, and I had to sit them down and said, first of all, we've met 20 ago. Like, who cares what I think about your parent? Like, no offense. Like, why are you even asking me this?
00;42;13;02 - 00;42;34;10
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
And it makes me laugh a little because I'm like, Have we really created a field with so many insecure people that everyone's like, asking each other, like, what? What? You know, if they should be able to do this. I was like, Just do it. Like, who's going to anyway? So that makes me laugh because the reason it makes me laugh is because it's so prevalent and you hear it again and again and you're like, okay, here we are again.
00;42;35;18 - 00;42;44;05
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Is I want that like almost 1980s level confidence that I'm the best thing that's ever happened. I just kind of go through the whole thing.
00;42;45;02 - 00;42;48;17
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, well, I mean, that's dangerous, too. The narcissism could be really, like.
00;42;49;01 - 00;42;49;15
Speaker 4
Somewhere in the.
00;42;49;15 - 00;42;49;25
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Middle.
00;42;49;25 - 00;42;53;07
Speaker 4
Somewhere in the middle, actually. Exactly. I'm with you. I'm with you.
00;42;53;14 - 00;43;06;12
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So here's. Here's the last two I got for you. We touch on a little bit earlier. You mentioned you're an audio book guy as well. So it was the last audio book that you've completed because I just go over and over again.
00;43;06;12 - 00;43;26;16
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, actually I recall Gutierrez's Brown Neon, which I put on the top list of our best art books of the year. I love that book. I thought it was fantastic and I love that they're the ones who read it, you know? And I love when an audio book and they're the person who's reading it. So that's think really amazing.
00;43;28;00 - 00;43;36;13
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So, you know, I think I mean, there are other books too, but I think that's the most relevant art one right now. But I go through them a lot. I love them so much.
00;43;36;20 - 00;43;57;29
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I did that. What is it? What is it? Audible is like, let me get my four year, 24 books and I just just go through it and. You know what I'm like, lacking in terms of like having, like, ideas or what have you or feeling like a little stuck. I'll put on like, Austin clients, like all three of them, or I'll put on a Ravi Perez's join and that's I get something from it.
00;43;57;29 - 00;44;00;27
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
I get something that it's like, where's my notepad? I got questions now.
00;44;01;16 - 00;44;23;06
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yep. I'm also listening to one now about comics by this French historian, and it's about the history of American comics and comic books and things and blowing my mind, you know, comic audiobooks are incredible for this. I mean, for those of us who take the subway or like, you know, get around the city by walking, you can't be can't beat it.
00;44;23;15 - 00;44;40;18
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Yeah, that's all I do. All I do is walk everywhere. And then I even walk when I'm in the gym. Where's the treadmill? Let me get over here. And it's now to a point where I don't really listen to a lot of podcasts as much. I listen to audio drama. So they have all of the Spotify has all of the old Twilight Zone episodes.
00;44;40;29 - 00;44;46;24
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So I listen to those. I'm like, Oh, where is this going to get problematic since the sixties?
00;44;48;02 - 00;44;51;08
Speaker 4
Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a little rough. That's right.
00;44;51;08 - 00;44;52;21
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yep, that's right.
00;44;53;03 - 00;45;06;16
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
So this is the last one I got for you. And I think before we got started, I talked about somebody I have similar energy to the Laurence Fishburne energy thing, and I have like a list of celebrity doppelgangers for you. Who's your celebrity doppelganger?
00;45;07;07 - 00;45;28;03
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You know, I don't know who my celebrity doppelganger is, to be quite honest. You know, I don't know because the only time ever that I could see maybe a little bit was once somebody in Times Square stopped me and thought I was Adam Sandler, I think. Was it Adam Sandler or someone? I don't remember who it was like now.
00;45;28;03 - 00;45;31;19
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
But I was just like and I had to look them up and I was like, Oh, yeah, I guess kind of.
00;45;31;24 - 00;45;37;04
Speaker 4
You know, like one of those things do you know? But I was just like.
00;45;38;02 - 00;45;48;07
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
I guess it depends on like the way your hair is that day or, you know, whatever it is. But I don't really know. I, I don't know. Is there someone reminds you me? Oh, love them. Is there anybody?
00;45;49;02 - 00;45;51;23
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
It's a glorious head of hair. So I'm getting a little Tim Burton.
00;45;52;10 - 00;45;54;16
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Oh, nice. Okay, I can see that.
00;45;54;16 - 00;45;54;28
Speaker 4
I could.
00;45;55;07 - 00;45;57;27
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
You know what? I could totally. Because especially the way he looks now.
00;45;58;01 - 00;45;58;12
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Yes.
00;45;59;05 - 00;46;05;12
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Yes, I could totally see that. So thank you for figuring out my doppelganger.
00;46;06;10 - 00;46;24;14
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Oh, Oh, this is. This has been a true pleasure. And thank you so much for for coming on and spending some time with me. And I want to again, thank you and invite encourage you to tell the listeners where you can check you out. Social media hyperallergic all of the things the floor is yours.
00;46;25;06 - 00;46;52;23
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Well, I just wanted to say thank you so much. I think it's been really great. And yeah, people can check out hyperallergic at hyperallergic dot com and my social handles are all rugby, so each aigbe pretty much on most social networks. So you can find me on there and feel free to reach out and you know, always, I always enjoy having conversations, but I always temper that with making people realize, you know, we're all really busy.
00;46;52;23 - 00;47;01;10
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
So it's if you're if I don't respond to something, just realize and this is true probably of most people, it just because there's something more priority at the moment.
00;47;01;11 - 00;47;02;05
Speaker 4
With you, you know.
00;47;02;12 - 00;47;16;15
Hrag Vartanian - The Truth In This Art
Personal or otherwise. And and I think people sometimes forget that that we all have really complicated lives and, you know, and personal lives and all that sort of stuff. So I love what you're doing and thanks so much for having on.
00;47;17;00 - 00;47;37;10
Rob Lee - The Truth In This Art
Thank you. And there you have folks for the folks listening out there, I'm Rob Lee for fraud. Vartanian saying that there's art, community culture, art. Critics are writing in and around your neck of the woods. You've got to look for it.
