Welcome to the Truth in Us Art, where we explore the connections between arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today, I'm excited to have you join us. And the us is me and my next guest, who is a multidisciplinary artist whose groundbreaking methodologies, including NeoChaos and Rocktism, have established him as a powerful voice in abstract art. His latest exhibition, The 3rd Future, a self portrait, is a part of the peak artist series at the top of the world's gallery in the sky.
Rob Lee:Please welcome my next guest, Ainsley Burrows. Welcome to the podcast.
Ainley Burrows:Hey. How are you doing, love? Thanks, Bob.
Rob Lee:I'm I'm doing great, and and thank you for for coming on. You're you're you're almost a mystic. You know, that's the thing. Like, you know, I see your name popping up at all these different places. I was like, is this dude real?
Rob Lee:Is this it's a real guy? You got the, you know, you got the fits on. You look a little bit like a spy. Like, you're always coming from some sort of, like, function. I'm like, I don't know if this is a real dude, but it's good to see you in the flesh.
Ainley Burrows:I think I'm a big man of Baltimore's imagination.
Rob Lee:So we're we're here, though, and that's and that's what we're doing where, you know, it's like when forces come together, I'm trying to be more of a recluse. Right? And people not know me, and they'll hear me. And they're like, oh, that's that's Rob. But they don't see me.
Rob Lee:Right? So, you know, in that that that attempt, to, you know, do face the name and and voices and sharing stories, I wanna give you the the space in this this this beginning of the conversation to introduce yourself. I think there is a lot of strength and a lot of, a lot of interest when when someone shares their story and what part of their introduction they wanna share. Like, some people will say, I'm just an artist. I do my thing.
Rob Lee:And others will go to, like, the 30 minute, like, yo. Listen. I want the director's cut. So if you will, introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your journey as an artist.
Ainley Burrows:My name is Ainsley Burrows. Was born in Kingston, Jamaica. Moved to the US when I was 15 years old. Went to school here at high school, college, did a part of a master's program, studied business, which is kinda interesting as a background for artists. Right?
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. In school, in college, I started writing, became a poet. From there, I became a novelist. And somewhere in that whole process, I just got this bug in 2009 that I just needed to paint. And I just, started buying painting books, paints, canvases.
Ainley Burrows:And just to, over time, and a lot of study and research and reading and stuff like that, I kinda developed a kind of a technique or a kind of a voice, through copying people that I liked or whose work I saw was interesting and then trying to figure out how they do their work. I kinda figure out how to express myself, how I wanted to express myself. So but at the core, I'm a poet.
Rob Lee:So, and thank you. Thank you for that. And I and I you know, in doing the the research and then having the questions and then updating the questions and then updating the updated questions. Yeah. You know, it's it's a lot that's there.
Rob Lee:And when we have these these periods where, you know, as I shared before we got started, the path was being a comic book artist. I'm here with microphones in front of me. So, you know, it's something that the root of it that you always go back to, but there is a point where we we have this shift. Right? So 2009 for me is when I started podcasting.
Rob Lee:That's when I started this pursuit. Yeah. Yeah. So is there a a point, a touch tone for you that you want all in on art being a direction? I too have the business degree, that background, specializing in marketing and all of that.
Rob Lee:And Morgan State University shout out and, you know, business admin and all of that good stuff. And it was gonna be the sort of have the job and have that corporate ladder sort of move, and I did a pivot 2012. What was sort of the the creative pivot or the the the the period in which you decided to go all in on art?
Ainley Burrows:Oh, mine was was kinda easy. I was in graduate school in a master's program in business, when studied accounting economics undergrad, but when I I'm from a Jamaican family. A lot of people are, like, they're from, like, families from immigrant families. They tell you 3 or 4 things you should do, either be a lawyer, a doctor, do business or engineering. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And those are your only options most of the times. Right? So I was like, let me go get this master's degree. And in the 2nd semester of my 1st year, I had this really bad car accident. Like, the car rolled over 5 times.
Ainley Burrows:Oh. Nothing happened to me and my other two friends in the car. Like, nothing. The car was totaled. I mean, like, crushed in.
Ainley Burrows:Wow. We can't explain it to this moment. We have conversations every now and then about it. ASI, it's still unbelievable. And after that, I went back to classes, and I'm in the classes on the teacher's talking, and I'm not hearing anything.
Ainley Burrows:It doesn't matter. And I just decided one day in the classroom, I was like, I'm I just died. Yeah. I'm gonna do what I really love doing, which was, at the time, writing. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And, really, it was just, like, creating art. But writing was just a the thing that was a placeholder. Right? So I knew that. And I also also my college years, even though I studied in business, was not a member of the business society, was not a member of the accounting society, but I produced a ton of events on the campus.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. So I realized, like, the thing I really love doing, I was doing it already. So I was like, that's what I'm gonna do with the rest of my life. I left school, and I just went straight into writing.
Rob Lee:That that'll that'll do it when you have sort of the whatever one believes in, but for the sake of broadness, like, say, the universe, it gives you some sort of signal.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. Be like, is this what you wanna do? You sure, bro?
Rob Lee:Like, alright. No. You should probably do this, though. And Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And I was like, no. No. I'm a go do the business. I'm a do business in the universe. Alright.
Ainley Burrows:One last chance. Like, look. I I'm I'm a
Rob Lee:hit you over the head next time. Like
Ainley Burrows:No. For real.
Rob Lee:And thank thank you thank you for for for that. Also, it's one of the things I'll I'll share with you that if I go back to high school a little bit, right, I I may have been writing a little poetry here and there. Like, again, there's some there's some overlap that's in the box.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. I don't think it just pops up. Like, I think in the end, if you pay attention to the things that you do most for fun, it'll most often be the thing that you either end up doing or regret not doing.
Rob Lee:Mhmm. It's good.
Ainley Burrows:Because at certain I've I've I had met this one guy once, and, at the time, I was, like, full on, traveling performance of poet. And he says to me, what do you do for Libman? I said, I'm a writer. And he just froze for a second, and he's looking at me. And he's like, wow.
Ainley Burrows:How is that being a writer? I said, it's cool. You know, there's ups and downs, and he gotta travel a lot. Blah blah blah. That's what he did.
Ainley Burrows:He's like, I'm a lawyer. And he said, my entire life has been an act of cowardice because he wanted to be a writer, but he just wouldn't take that leap.
Rob Lee:And and sometimes you you have to take that leap, and definitely, I I have, you know, I have a I have a few questions in that vein a little bit later that I think will be very timely. And so talk a little bit. I'm curious as far as, you know, diving deeper into, like, like, painting and and into that side of your your your work because, you know, again, I I I think, you know, there there are through lines, and folks will say, hey, you know, I'm a storyteller, and I do my storytelling through these different mediums. Right? And that's valid.
Rob Lee:And, you know, as you're reading, like, I'm a poet, and and and the visual may be one of the mediums. So speak on sort of diving into to painting and and that that side of things.
Ainley Burrows:For me, painting wasn't so much like going into a different medium. Yeah. As more for me, it was just learning how to use paint. Right? So it's like the the medium me going into painting wasn't as difficult as people talk about.
Ainley Burrows:Friends who were forced, and I'm like, yo, I'm I'm moving into into painting, and it's really fulfilling. I was like, yo, you should you should try. You know? It's like, no. That's not my thing.
Ainley Burrows:I just I don't even know how to draw. I'm like, you don't have to know how to check off. You just have to practice with the paint, and you will learn how to how to do how to work. Right? And, basically, what I did was all the tools that I had for writing, I just transposed those into into painting.
Ainley Burrows:Mhmm. Most of the times that I was kinda, like, learning how to about painting, I was just learning to figure I was just trying to figure out how does the paint move? How does the paint work? How do I get the paint to do this thing? And if I get it to do this thing, how do I get it to do this other thing?
Ainley Burrows:And once I have I know how all of that works, then I could then take the tools that I have in terms of, like, composition or layering or, foreshadowing or whatever I want to do, I could use that, I could use those tools for painting.
Rob Lee:Okay. That now that makes sense. That makes sense. I like that. So I always hear when people talk about this podcast, right, which, you know, like, you're you're probably gonna, like, be around at number 800 when that that drops that that that mystery number.
Rob Lee:Right? And they talk about how prolific. Like, man, you you always got something new dropping. Yeah. I'm looking at your background.
Rob Lee:You know, they're you're you're prolific. You're you're putting some you're putting up some numbers. And, you know, I see this sort of 4 year period, where you created the Maroons, rebellion, a series of a 125. Yeah. So, you know, using that as an example or or anyone that you wanna talk to, but I'm using that in in terms of the framing that that's a lot of work.
Rob Lee:To talk about sort of your creative process and if you will include the most, like, interesting part of, like, your creative process. It could be recent work. It could be that, but just tell us a bit about that.
Ainley Burrows:So I I'm I'm kinda like I have a kinda obsessive personality
Rob Lee:Okay.
Ainley Burrows:But, with a purpose. Right? I'm not just obsessing over random things. I could choose a thing that I love, and I obsess over it. Right?
Ainley Burrows:So, like, and I and I give myself really difficult, timelines and deadlines. So, in writing, I used to do this thing called A 100 Poems in a 100 Days. And we'll, it was on Facebook. We'll get a ton of people from around the country. It'll be, like, 50, 60 people, and we try to see who could write a 100 poems.
Ainley Burrows:One poem we say for a 100 days. So it's kinda like developing a certain kinda discipline and some type of practice that's like, I'm trying to be the best it's like I wanna be the Navy SEAL version of myself as a writer. Yeah. Like, I'm not trying to be in the in the regular infantry. I I wanna be special forces, and that's how I approach, poetry, events.
Ainley Burrows:Anything that I do, I try to do it to a level where it's like, I don't wanna walk away or wake up one day and be like, man, I could've tried harder. Yeah. Because I've I've had that in my life before. So I wanna be like, hey. Listen.
Ainley Burrows:I said I'm a painter. I'm gonna paint. I said I'm a writer. I'm gonna write. I'm not gonna sit around and be 20 years later, and I have 10 paintings, or 20 years later and I have one book.
Ainley Burrows:So I set a schedule. I wanna put out either a book or a CD each year, and you you try to follow that pattern. And after a while, it becomes just a norm for you. Yeah. So that's kinda the what I do with the Maroon series.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. Set a goal, this is how many paintings I wanna do, and I just keep on schedule.
Rob Lee:Yeah. See, that's what I that business mind, you know, because because because it's the same. Like, I, you know, did podcasting for about 10 years. I had a specific schedule, but it wasn't as taxing as this one could be at times. So at the beginning of a year or even 3 months before the beginning of the year, I'm thinking through a production calendar.
Rob Lee:What are the themes? Who do I wanna reach out to? How many do I wanna do? And having a system in in place. And, you know, and it it doesn't even feel weird.
Rob Lee:Like, I I've when it when folks come to me, like, it was a it was a period, in this sort of arc of interviews, I think 2022. I did almost an interview a day. I put out almost I put out 333 interviews in a year. And people were like, damn. That's a lot, man.
Rob Lee:I was like, I know, but I love it, and I enjoy it. Come on. I have a I have a system for it. And, you know, yeah, you should do less. It's like, yeah, maybe if you did it, you should, but I'm doing this.
Rob Lee:And but then it naturally comes down to something where it's not being, you know, sort of lazy or anything along those lines. It's like, alright. I think it's naturally progressed in this direction where maybe I wanna do 1 per week and then do these other things that are of interest for me and keeping it fresh.
Ainley Burrows:Yes. So, like, yeah, like, you're right. So, like, the the the Maroon series was specific target for a specific thing. Right? So I do series painting, so I'll be like, okay.
Ainley Burrows:I wanna do a series of, say, 15 paintings, and I set a timeline. Because I think a lot of times with artists and I don't know if it's artists per se more than the story that artists are told that artists should be. That artists wait for inspiration, and we wait for for this bug to hit us and go. And that happens once every now and then. But I think artistic discipline and rigor is more important than waiting for inspiration.
Ainley Burrows:And that's what's been thinking about, like, who are the greatest artists that you think about? You think about Picasso, you think about Dali, you think about Jean Michel Basquiat. Hey. Look at how prolific they were. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And a part of the reason why they're remembered is part of it because they're so prolific.
Rob Lee:Yeah. No. That's that's that's super true. It's just like, you know, it's it's sort of the attempts. Like Yeah.
Rob Lee:I I I know and I and I'll move into this next question, but I I know one of the things that comes to mind, I think of of actors. And as you remember, I think it was a I think it was an interview with maybe Sam Jackson.
Ainley Burrows:And he
Rob Lee:was like, yeah. You're doing so much stuff. He's like, I'm a working actor. I'm working. I'm not not a movie star.
Rob Lee:You know, I do one every 2 years. It's like, you might see me in 7 things, you know, this year. And, you know, sort of figuring it out. And I I I like to keep busy, and I like to explore things that are of interest, and and I I'm hearing that of you. And and the last thing I'll say with it, it's like you're doing a creative version or the artistic version of the hard 75.
Rob Lee:Is it like, look, man?
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So as far as, you know, any any themes that tend to show up in your work, whether it be because you you you touched on a series. What is, like, a recurring theme, if any, that that show up in your work on and on?
Ainley Burrows:Recurring theme. I think, from a young age, just from the people I grew up around, my family growing up in Jamaica, at the the core of my work, at the like, if you also strip everything away, is this kind of search for some kind of justice or, I I'm the person that goes so bad for the person. In Germany, they call it the small man. Right? The person who doesn't have a voice.
Ainley Burrows:That's where most of my work at the core is about. The people who get overlooked, the people who don't get to be in the fancy places, in the fancy rooms. And if I could be that voice in that room for them, that's what I try to do. And whether it's poetry, whether it's music, whether it's, painting, it's always some of that subtext in there. Well, there's I think that's kind of a part of who I am as a person.
Rob Lee:So has the activist been to it?
Ainley Burrows:Not activism. How you I'll I would say activism, yes, on the front. Right? But at a at a more, personal Internet level, it's just almost like like you're advocating for the person who's not here.
Rob Lee:I hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:Of course, a similar thing, but it's a little different. Right?
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And it and it depends on the day or the time. Right? Where it's like sometimes I become a activist. Right? But in general, I'm advocating for the people who are not here, for the small men, for the for the for the for the the people who get pushed into corners, for the people who get told to shut up, for people who you don't get to speak or we don't need to see you.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. You know? So
Rob Lee:I I relate to that, and, you know, it that's that's a piece of what is baked into doing this, where, you know, too often, folks that look like you and I, oh, your work doesn't matter. Oh, your story doesn't matter. And it's just like, well, I'm gonna use whatever microphones and Internet connection I have to help folks get their stuff out there and broaden, you know, what that conversation and what that canon sort of looks like and have the real story in there, not sort of the sanitized.
Ainley Burrows:Yes.
Rob Lee:Yeah. You know, let's get to the the authentic of it. And, someone I wanna move into to this question because, you know, right now is a momentous time. You know, I'm I'm hearing, you know, there's a, exhibition that's that's right that's happening right now. Let's talk a bit about this.
Rob Lee:I see the 3rd, future, a self portrait. Right?
Ainley Burrows:3rd future, a self portrait is up at the top of the world at the World Trade Center in Baltimore Gallery in the Sky.
Rob Lee:Yes.
Ainley Burrows:40 on Pratt Street, if anybody wants to go see it. Opened on September 12th. Was an amazing opening with a, or it was also by Nissan Basquiat. We did a really, dope talk back and forth about the art and the process and and the why behind the art and and things like that.
Rob Lee:So So let's let's talk a little bit a bit more about it. Like, what was the sort of inspiration for for this body of work and even, you know, the significance around the the name of the exhibition? Because, you know, it's it's it's one of those names. So let's let's talk about it.
Ainley Burrows:So the 3rd future. Right? If so the 3rd future let me explain the 3rd future before I go any so one, there's one second at least to the next second to the next second, and that's not the pushback future. Right? Like, if you just go one second to the next second, you get to this future.
Ainley Burrows:Like, I'm gonna get to 51, or I'm gonna get to 65, or I'm gonna get to 80 years old. Right? Sure. That's a prescribed future. Some people might say, I'm gonna find a different path than that future, And that different path is a second future where they could say, hey.
Ainley Burrows:I wanna go this way, and I wanna make a different future than the future as prescribed for me. So those 2 futures, I want you to imagine those 2 futures not existing, and you took a 3rd future Mhmm. Which is a future that you can't really think of what it is, and it's all possibility. And that's the 3rd future, where you can't even imagine what it's like, what you could make whatever you want it to be that thing. So that's what the 3rd future is.
Ainley Burrows:It's like this it's almost like you ever seen in The Matrix when Neo was fighting? When he he he came out of the first future, he's fighting the the the robots, the the machines, that was a second future. The third future is when he was just like this, and it doesn't even matter to him any.
Rob Lee:Right.
Ainley Burrows:It's like you're in a space where everything is possible and you could do whatever you want. That's the 3rd future.
Rob Lee:Like it's a so
Ainley Burrows:So the 3rd future of self portrait now Yeah. It's all abstract paintings, and people don't think of abstraction as a form of portraiture.
Rob Lee:True.
Ainley Burrows:What I've learned over time is that you could only make the art that you are. So even though it's abstract work, it's still a picture of who I am. Mhmm. It's still a picture of my experiences that I'm putting on the canvas. So that's the the conversation that's going on with it.
Rob Lee:Love that. Love that. And so what was the like, you know, going back to that previous question, maybe I set this up, as far as, like, I was mentioning, you know, sort of, you know, the the 4 years for that that that series. So, this so for the body of work here, what was the, you know, timeline for the paintings that were produced for this body of work?
Ainley Burrows:So it's interesting. Right? So I might take 4 years to do a a series of 125 paintings. Yeah. It took me my entire lifetime to learn that information, to have a conversation, and to to to visit the place and then see the people and all this stuff.
Ainley Burrows:So for the 3rd future, the actual conversation started probably a year Mhmm. Probably a year ago, year and a half ago with Kirk, who was the who was the curator for the show. And we we talked about all kinds of things, and we went, like, deep, wide, different directions to kinda figure out what the show should be about. And then, you know, like, after you meditate on it a little, it's like, boom. It's there.
Ainley Burrows:Right? And we got it, and I started painting at the end of May. End of May, June, July, August. And I literally finished the last painting because I was gonna finish. I had the whole series done.
Rob Lee:Sure.
Ainley Burrows:There's 1, like, 20 23 foot painting. It was 23 feet. And I'm we're looking at it. Me and my partner, Loyola, we're looking at it, and I'm like, this doesn't fit into everything else in the show. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And this is, like when was it? It was August 23rd. So I'm like, okay. August 23rd. No one was at no.
Ainley Burrows:It was probably August 21st. Okay. Yeah. That's showing the 23rd. So I'm like, painting.
Ainley Burrows:The soiree is 2 days later. So I started the painting, but I have to stop because we have to do the soiree. We do the soiree. The day after the soiree, I'm like, my throat is weird. COVID.
Ainley Burrows:I get COVID on the 23rd to, like, the 31st, maybe the first, September, February 30th. Like, it's, like, a full week, but, like, from Friday to the following week, Sunday. And now I have, like, just a few more days for the opening of the show, but we also gotta break down all the paintings and bring them into the space and restretch them.
Rob Lee:So Alright. You went to tight wire. Alright now.
Ainley Burrows:So literally and strangely because of the way I paint, I was able to get it done because the way I paint is I was spent 8 hours with a canvas.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Ainley Burrows:Just I'm I'm with the canvas the whole time because the energy that goes into the work dictates that I have to be there with the canvas. Right? Yeah. It's not something I could just be like, I'll do this a little bit and go away and come back. I just have to be with it for hours and hours and hours.
Ainley Burrows:I'll take a break in the in the evening, and I'll come back, and I'll be do another 8 hours, like a full on job. But it doesn't feel like a job. It's like, I love doing it. Right? So, we got the last piece done.
Ainley Burrows:It was barely dry enough to be able to unstretch it, roll it up, break down the frame, take it to the the venue, and restretch it, but we got it done.
Rob Lee:So using it using that that last piece, I'm real curious now about this part. What what fuels you? Like, you're like like, when you like, when I'm, you know, doing something like this, I make sure I got the proper amount of coffee and then I have, like, some good carbs or something. I treat some of these things that can be physical like a workout. What you were describing sounds like a workout, so what is fueling you from a macronutrient standpoint?
Ainley Burrows:Oh, it's kinda crazy. Right? So it's not even for me, macronutrients, I've always been like a super hyper kid since I was a a child. Yeah. I've always had a lot of energy.
Ainley Burrows:I've always been, like, you know, that kind of person, and painting is probably the perfect thing for that because then I could just use all that energy for that. Right? So it's not like I have to do anything extra to do it. It's just like that's that's how I function normally. So and once I get locked in, like, none not not nothing else matters.
Ainley Burrows:I'm just doing that.
Rob Lee:I love that. I love the discipline there. And, yeah, like, once you once you get locked in and engaged, like, at a at a point you know, I've said this on this podcast a number of times, but, you know, I have a day job. We you know, I'm splitting time and all of that. I have all these other obligations, but I figure out a way to make it work.
Rob Lee:I'm doing like, I'm a data analyst by by days. I'm figuring it out during the course of the day. It's like, alright. I got 2 hours I can put towards this. The 2 hours is the 2 hours.
Rob Lee:That's just what it is. Then I think in each of those instances, like, as I I I shared with you, before we we got started that this, I moderated this thing. I I go out of town to do work now, you know, as I raise an eyebrow. And I always learned something from each one of these things. I could do really bad at it or feel like I've done bad at it, but I'm learning something that I can apply to the next opportunity and to the next and so on.
Rob Lee:So talk a bit about that as far as, you know, sort of the the third future and how the experience, the sort of full scope, you know, like, it's it's here. We're we're out here at this point. Right? How that carries over and maybe shapes your your your thinking moving forward or even your your ideas and the ideation that's moving forward for the next work.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. So it's interesting you, you you you, asked that question and going to the in this direction because part of my practice is that whenever I create a series of painting paintings, I always find something in that series to then create the next scene. So, like, I could literally show you a straight line through all my paintings going right back to the first painting. So it's almost like, it's a a kinda evolution where I'll do a painting and there's just one piece in it. I'll be like, I really love that part.
Ainley Burrows:And then I take that and do a whole series on that whole part. And then from this new series I did, I find something in there that I think is interesting. I use that thing to make a next series. And sometimes they might not look the same, but they they you can see the lineage. You can see how they're connected or how they grow, and I always circle back and put the some of the features of the grandparents and the grandkids.
Ainley Burrows:So you could say, like, oh, they're related. And you certain there's certain little things that I do. So it's kinda like it's just a a a process of, like, creating and learning from what you create or from what you make and then analyzing it because even while I'm painting, I'm thinking about it. Like, what is happening here? Why is the the why does the paint move like this here?
Ainley Burrows:Oh, so if I let the paint dry out for 3 days, I'll get a different kind of viscosity, different kind of texture. Mhmm. Now I really like that. So I'll make a whole series with the paint dried out for 3 days. So it's that kinda like, it quite like, like, you learn from you you you you you learn from what you've done before because you take that thing that you learn and you expand on it.
Ainley Burrows:You're like, oh, this is cool. And then you Yeah. Keep scraping over, so it keeps growing.
Rob Lee:That's good. It it's it's learning from each one of the things and, you know, I think that's really, really what it is. And even going back to one of the things you you you touched on earlier, it's like, go for that greatness, you know, going to be great. So learning from each one of these things and just being curious and exploring, like, alright. If I do this and I tried that, let's see if I can play with this little bit more.
Rob Lee:Yeah. That's that's that's important. And I think it's it's just kind of fun getting getting in the weeds of your own process and your own work.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. I'm I'm, like, I'm super, like, oh, no. I think this teacher when I was in school got me into this space super analytical. Yeah. I was in high school.
Ainley Burrows:I had this teacher named Miss Gebayah, And she she's from Trinidad, big literary culture in Trinidad. So she's like, okay. You gotta read Sound of the Fury, Great Expectations, Invisible Man, I think it was those 3 books. Might have been 4. And she said, what we had to do was every page that we read no.
Ainley Burrows:Every 10 pages, we should write a a write a a journal entry. Yeah. What's happening with the characters? What do you think is gonna happen next? And, what other characters how do other characters gonna impact that character?
Ainley Burrows:So imagine reading Great Expectations and doing that for the whole book. So after a while, your brain just automatically adjusts to being super analytical about everything. Yeah. That's so that's how I look at my work, and that's through literature I'm using to analyze painting.
Rob Lee:Yeah. We're we're on the same wavelength. We we we have some similar way way of thinking here.
Ainley Burrows:And I
Rob Lee:you know, and before I move into these last two real questions, you know, I I think about I always go back to this one class in in high school. Like, I watch a fair amount of movies, and, I go to this one class back in high school. It was a it was a film theory class.
Ainley Burrows:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:And it's you know, I'll be 40 in January. And so I'm going back to high school. I was 16, and I still carry over this sort of this is how you watch this movie Yeah. And you're picking up that stuff. It's using the the the device that that, the the teacher told you about as far as, you know, writing these journal entries, it's just like as you're actively watching, you're gathering these things.
Rob Lee:I don't need to watch movies more than once now because for years, it's been that way. But I don't need to really watch movies more than once because I'm getting most of the things and I'm retaining most of the I learned the retention piece.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. Yeah. That's that that's that's the thing I love about, like, literature, love, movies, where it's like it's a teaching tool that you could actually use to learn so much more about life, about art, about people. It's it's so much more than just entertainment. And a lot of times with that stuff, I use it for the entertainment value, but I'm always looking for, the literary part or the the the composition, part of it or or or the poetry and the thing, you know.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I'm I'm I'm looking for what can I take from this and what connections can I make? Yeah. I've I've joked several times, and and people like when I do these connections. I'll, you know, connect, you know, sort of the the the the the artist life component.
Rob Lee:Right? That maybe a musician let's say a jazz musician might have to a comedian and connect sort of mute others types of musicians to chefs or what have you. And those lines are there. And until you mention it and try to explore it and really get into the the conversation around it, People don't see it until someone actually poses it, and I'm talking to the person that poses it.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. It's fun. That too because when people ask me about my art, a lot of times they ask me, what artists, are you looking at right now? What artists are inspiring? And most of the time, they're talking about, like, painters or Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:And artists. As always for me, it's always musicians or writers. So because I get more from a musician in terms of, like, how I create and from my process than I do from another painter. Yeah. And I get more from a a writer in terms of just, like, layers and context and subtext and all that stuff from a writer than I get from another painting.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. I look at paintings a lot of times more to look at, like, technique. Like, oh, how did they do that? Right? But in terms of, like, the feel of something and the movement of something, I always look look at music, and for, like, texture and layer and and and, like, composition, I I I look at novels and writers.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I I say it all the time and and I I teach podcasting as well. And, you know, sort of like the theory and how I go about it and So who do you listen to? I was like, I don't really listen to too many podcasts or at least, like, interview podcasts. And part of it is I feel like, you know, some of that stuff inevitably creeps in and that's not what my aim is.
Rob Lee:You know, I'm I'm I'm curious about being able to explore and, you know, by virtue you by virtue of it, you know, that that that sort of panel I was describing earlier that I was sitting in on, and they wanted that sort of skill set. I'm there with comic, this this panel I was at for, the CXC in Columbus, the panel I was there with 3, political cartoonists, and their their work is in that vein. I I'm curious about cartoons. I'm curious about comics, but I don't have that background. And because I didn't and if I had these questions, it opened up the conversation to be much more broader because questions are coming from a a slightly different perspective.
Rob Lee:And I think that there's alignment in that way where when I'm doing interviews and I'm crafting interviews, I'm looking back more, not necessarily for someone that's novice or someone that's an art critic per se, but someone is like that has a perspective about culture and that can connect it to art and sort of the world around us. That's the thing that I'm super curious about. And a lot of times when I listen to, quote, unquote, the art, podcast, tell me about your work. They don't care about the stuff that goes into the work.
Ainley Burrows:And I I think what goes into the work we I have that conversation with artists a lot of times. I'm like, they're like, what do you read? What what work do you look at? I'm like, I live. The more you live, the easier it is to make art.
Ainley Burrows:And artists being recluse and, isolationist to me is a contradiction of term. Because I think that as a artist, you have to be speaking, from a place that's that that that that's being fed all the time or you're just gonna end up running yourself out. Mhmm. You have to find ways to connect with people, connect with places, connect with things that and that stuff will fuel you. You will be able to create art forever.
Ainley Burrows:But that those are some of the side conversations that happen inside of the art world and with among artists, like, you know, what what do you what kind of work are you looking at? One of my favorite favorite writers, I think he's probably one of the most brilliant people I've ever read. His name is Oshun. Well, the name of the book is More Brilliant Than the Sun.
Rob Lee:Okay.
Ainley Burrows:Well, I say it's probably the most brilliant book I've ever read. More Brilliant Than the Sun. His name is Oshun. His last name is Oshun.
Rob Lee:Oshun?
Ainley Burrows:Ado. Yeah. Bro. And I see when I say brilliant, if you get a chance, a book is, like, it's out of print. You might be able to find it on some website somewhere in a PDF file or something, but, like, brilliant brilliant book.
Ainley Burrows:And it's kinda that's the type of stuff where, like, he makes these connections between things that you wouldn't even make connections. Like, he's connecting a DJ DJing to time travel, whereas it's time signature on a record that he to have the people here in time, and he could turn it backwards and move in the people too. And it is just brilliant. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I mean, they say they say music's a time capsule, so that that's a that's a good that's a good, distinction there. So I got these I got these 2 questions, and I have a few rapid fire ones. But I think these these next 2 are very quick questions. Yeah. So I I I this this isn't at that vein of, sort of just folks listening.
Rob Lee:We got, you know, younger artists. We have emerging artists. We have artists that are mid career or so on. And you're prolific. You're you know, you have this this solo show.
Rob Lee:You're doing really amazing work. You know, could you speak on maybe sort of an opportunity that that you've taken that you wish more, like, maybe younger artists or artists that are in this spot that they're kinda overlooking, but you're like, you know what? You should look at this. You should take this.
Ainley Burrows:Alright. So for me personally,
Rob Lee:Like, when that starts that. Right? For me personally.
Ainley Burrows:Yeah. Because I you know, the reason why the reason why is, like, sometimes I don't wanna sound like I'm telling people what to do, because sometimes they're like, ah, whatever. Right? But for me, personally, hearing different artists speak about their process Mhmm. Really, helps me to look at more critically my own process.
Ainley Burrows:Right? So, like, at MICA, they have, visiting artists. They have visiting artists that come in, here and there to do, presentations. And in the summer, I was a part of the, MICA, BMA, JJC residency, and I went to all these different, business artists. And just hearing the way they talk about their process, it really, like, move some furniture around in your brain space.
Ainley Burrows:You know? Like, oh, that is interesting to see a artist who builds a whole sculpture, takes a photo of it, and distorts a sculpture and a final piece of the photo. And I'm like, yo. The what it would take to destroy the thing you made to have a photo be the art is brilliant. Mhmm.
Ainley Burrows:But then it it informs my work in ways that I'm holding on to work that probably I should let go of. Mhmm. Right. Small small little things. And it's like, just every single person I, you know, like, I heard about their process, it kinda helped to rejigger or reframe the way I think about my own process.
Ainley Burrows:And I think that stuff like that, really change. Like, for example, like, John Coltrane. I watched a documentary on John Coltrane, and they showed how much he was addicted to his, or obsessed with with his saxophone. Yeah. You eat dinner table with his saxophone, and he's eating while he's so it's that that kind of obsession.
Ainley Burrows:I learned that from John Coltrane. Oh, wow. Yeah. Things you learn from different people by looking at their process or learning their process like, oh, that's a possibility. Because sometimes what's possible, you might not be able to see it until you hear or see somebody else do it, and you're like, oh, that's possible.
Ainley Burrows:You know? So
Rob Lee:That's good. That's good. I was thinking a bit of, like, you know, you kill your darlings, you know, it's like get rid of those unnecessary things at times or or even, you know, the the thing I've I've mentioned this in the pod before, but the the whole thing about, George Carlin, comedian, you know, you get rid of your old jokes, and it makes you have to write every year. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah. So this is the last one. This is kind of like the precursor to the rapid fire ones. What is the most marked marked difference from you as a, you know, public like, as as an artist out there and as a person? Like, where's the line between, you know, Angel Lee the artist and Angel Lee the the person?
Rob Lee:Is there a line between the 2?
Ainley Burrows:So I think I said this earlier. I think you could only create the art that you are. Mhmm. So if you know me and you know my art, you'd be like, oh, that's the same person. So, like, literally, like, you see me, and and I've known people at a friend role.
Ainley Burrows:We do this thing called perspectives together, and he's known my paintings for a while, probably like a year or so. Sure. And then he saw me do poetry, and he said, oh, now I understand your painting better. Wow. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:Because he was only seeing a part of me before. So when he sees all of it, it makes more sense. So, like, the type of person I am is the type of art I'm
Rob Lee:Is is right there? Right? And and I think that that's important. I think that's the the authenticity in the in the in the trueness there where, you know, I joke about it. I'm flipping about it.
Rob Lee:I'm like, oh, I'm a I'm a carefully crafted caricature. I'll I'll just say that, but it's real. It's like, I'm just me. I'm just, you know, same same asad, same, like, you know, question, same curiosity. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, you know, it's maybe turned up a bit here and there, but, literally, it's it's pretty much the same person. And, you know, so, yeah, I just think it's an important thing for maybe someone listening to may maybe get that too as well. You know what I mean? So I wanna go into these rapid fire questions. I got 3 of them for you.
Rob Lee:And as I always tell folks, you don't wanna overthink these. You know? It's like whatever the first one that pops in your head, that's what it is. Outside of creating, making, poetry, painting, all of the things, what is the most satisfying part of a creative life for you?
Ainley Burrows:Again.
Rob Lee:What is the most satisfying part of your creative life?
Ainley Burrows:The the most satisfying part? Yes. Cooking. Really? Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:Like, the end of the day, I I finish waiting all day making a meal.
Rob Lee:You you're giving me another question, my guy. Like, now I gotta ask, what do you like to make? Why why why do you cook food? You'd always ask about food. What are we doing?
Ainley Burrows:Well, I I I I burn. Like, I I make I can make anything. Like, I I cook, like, almost unlike my regular schedule, not like when everything has come at me, regular schedule, I cook every single day. I love it. I I make Jamaican food, whether that's rice and peas, ackee and saltfish, jerk chicken, curry chicken.
Ainley Burrows:I could make all of it. I could make, black beans and rice. I could make, a dough pass, pasta with pasta sauce. I make all of it, like I'm just curious, so I learn how to make stuff and I make it.
Rob Lee:Look, man. I'm gonna reach out to y'all. I need to know how to make cocoa bread, man. So, like, I'm gonna reach out to you. I wanna move into this next one.
Rob Lee:Like, you know, the image that I have for for this conversation, I'm gonna put up in the socials and sort of just your profile on the online. Obviously, fashion is a consideration for you. How many suits do you own, bro? Because I I've been seeing seeing
Ainley Burrows:you out there. How many suits do I alright. So just to just to qualify this a little bit Go on. I'm I'm not in the regular category of people with suits because I host a bralette show.
Rob Lee:Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:So I'm on stage all the time. So a lot of it that people see me in is really my work clothes. So I think I own, like, 21 suits, but that's only because that's my work clothes. I have to dress up for for when I'm hosting or when I'm performing on stage. Okay.
Ainley Burrows:So it's, yeah, it's it's it's just a part of my job.
Rob Lee:I mean, when I when I got the the the image, they reached out. They were like, yeah. You trying to talk to Aziz? I was like, sure. Let's let's do it.
Rob Lee:I was like, I don't know if I'm qualified for this. Should I wear a suit when I do the interview? What are we talking about?
Ainley Burrows:I know, but I really like dressing up, like, for real. Like, a lot of people don't see the value in it. Yeah. But, like, it's like, man, like, I'm out here. I'm stepping out.
Ainley Burrows:Like, all the people in my family who don't get to do this, I'm doing it for them. I'm representing for my entire line of people. It's like they never got a chance to be fly inside of the museum or the gallery, and I'm here representing for them. And I'm sure if they saw me, they'd be like, yo. He represented for all of us.
Rob Lee:I love that.
Ainley Burrows:Like, I have to, you know, have to step out sometimes. Not every day, but when I step out, I step out.
Rob Lee:I mean and I've upgraded. You know? I've gone to the more fitted shirt. I used to throw on, like, the dirty Carhartt and the Doc Martens. I'm like, yeah.
Rob Lee:I'm here for Ott. And now it's just like, alright. You gotta it's a little effort in, brother. So that's that's what I'm doing. I'm taking advice from you.
Rob Lee:I'm a start wearing these suits. I'm like, man, I work at a burlesque place, and I do it. I would just, like, ape your identity and see if anybody knows this.
Ainley Burrows:It's real it's real, though. And I think it also does have a impact. I think the most powerful force in the world is confidence. Right? Because whether people are doing good or bad, it's always a bunch of confidence involved.
Ainley Burrows:And when I put on a nice suit, it's tailored. You step out, you're confident. You don't even have to think about it. It's just there. So
Rob Lee:yeah. So this is the last one I got for you. So if there were can I put it? So if you were an artist, let's say, in a different period of time, what would that period of time be like, hey, I would love to have been an artist doing this period or this era. Which one would it be for you?
Ainley Burrows:I I know it might be, like, whatever, Konya. What what? The twenties, Harlem Renaissance. I've always been like, yo. Like, I really love that period of time.
Ainley Burrows:Like, just even just reading about it, how it just seemed like the the the style was dope. The music was dope. The art people were creating was so but it's the writers or the poets or the musicians. It it just felt like that was like a era. It kinda feel like how now feels, or the 2000 when I was in Brooklyn, how that felt like Yeah.
Ainley Burrows:It's just a bunch of artists just making dope art and, you know, just optimistic and trying to change the world. And Baltimore is beginning to feel like that to me right now.
Rob Lee:It's a great point. It's a great point to close out on, and and thank you.
Ainley Burrows:Thanks for having me.
Rob Lee:That's that's pretty much it. Appreciate you coming on, and, let me let me close out here. So, you know, there's 2 things I wanna do again. Thank you for for spending the time, spending this Monday with me. And to, you know, shameless plugs, tell the folks one more time about the 3rd future, a self portrait.
Rob Lee:Give them the details.
Ainley Burrows:3rd future, a self portrait is at the World Trade Center in Baltimore at the Gallery in the Sky on the 27th floor. It's at 401 Pratt Street. It's open Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sundays, I think between 10 and 6. Go check out her work. Follow me on Instagram.
Ainley Burrows:It's at Ainsley Burrows mighty, and tell me what you think.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I'm gonna, again, thank Ainsley Burrows for coming on and sharing a bit of his story with us and tell us about his, current exhibition, the 3rd future, a self portrait. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
