Heritage, History, and Cultural Renaissance: A Conversation with Shauntee Daniels of Baltimore National Heritage Area (BNHA)
Welcome to the Truth in Us Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today, it is my pleasure to be in conversation and to welcome my next guest, the executive director of the Baltimore National Heritage Area and a champion of promoting black history and cultural heritage through programs, outreach, and grant initiatives. Please welcome Shanti Daniels. Welcome to the podcast.
Shauntee Daniels:Well, I'm glad to be here. It took us 6 months to get here, so we are here now.
Rob Lee:Well, we you know, when it happens, it happens. It's supposed to happen when it's supposed to happen.
Shauntee Daniels:It's true. It's true.
Rob Lee:So, you know, it's it's great to be here on-site, by the way. I was kinda, like, popping around a little bit. I was like, oh, it's history. History over here. I was like, I like this.
Rob Lee:I like this.
Shauntee Daniels:Yes. Welcome to, Union Square, Hollins area. You are sitting in the home, the former home of H. L. Macon.
Shauntee Daniels:Henry Louis Macon for those who don't know H. L. Macon is. And the people that respect him the most call him the sage of Baltimore. I have my own personal opinion about, mister Menckin, but that's my opinion.
Shauntee Daniels:And this opportunity to be in this house was a big deal for the heritage area to find a permanent home as an office space. So, I'm not mad about that, but it it is the home of H. L. Mankin.
Rob Lee:So we we kinda have, like, the location part, right, kinda covered. So before we get to, like, the main crux of the conversations, we have a few topics to talk to. You have the you have the notes. Can you tell the the listeners out there a bit about yourself and and and what you do? Like, I think, obviously, there is an intro that I do, but my intro is always cut and paste.
Rob Lee:This is coming from online. I use chat, TPT. Put this in. This is the guest. So I like to have the guest really articulate who they are and what they do.
Rob Lee:I think there's more power in that.
Shauntee Daniels:Well, my title is executive director of the Baltimore National Heritage Area. And basically, my, my real function is to manage the organization, facilitate the vision of the organization, through a number of different ways. Grant funds, producing programs that benefit the residents of Baltimore. My interest is more specifically the youth, of Baltimore as opposed to, the older generation because they have their own history of Baltimore. But the youth do not have a history of Baltimore, as far as the historical identity of Baltimore on a national level.
Shauntee Daniels:So that is one of the things that is a part of my responsibility. Then comes the day to day operations of reports, personnel management, office management. So those are the things that and as executive director, we're just going through a 5 year, strategic plan. And one of the things that was mentioned in my, in the interviews that were taken by individuals in the community is that I am a convener. I am the one that brings people together to have conversations about, where we're going, how we attract tourists, how we continue to narrate and, the story of Baltimore.
Shauntee Daniels:So that's that's another thing that I am as I'm a convener. And the organization is, the glue with our grant funding and keeping our cultural and heritage institutions, moving forward k. Operating. We continue to operate during COVID and in supporting our our our partners. One of the things that the partners had a real problem with it was operations while they were closed.
Shauntee Daniels:So we changed our grant program in order we pivoted to more of an operational grant funding instead of a programming because they didn't really need programming.
Rob Lee:Right.
Shauntee Daniels:They needed operational funds. Of course, ARPA and all these other programs helped them, but sometimes you just needed a little bit to carry you forward until those funds were dropped in your account. So that's one of the bigger things. The other thing is working very closely with smaller museums. So I am not talking about museums like the BMA, AVAM.
Shauntee Daniels:AVAM is medium, I would say, but it still it has its own following, it has its own, funding base, and it's different. But we don't really work that closely with or fund big projects for the BMA, the Walters. The other museum I'm thinking of, that, really kind of like doesn't need, It's not a museum. So Fort McHenry is not a museum, but it is a historic site. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:So we don't really actively solicit, applications from them. Sure. We are looking at the smaller medium size, the BMI, the Baltimore Museum of Industry, the Women's Heritage and Cultural Center, little small museums that are niche museums that are really tell the story of Baltimore Yeah. Because they're here, but they tell a more global story. The street car museum is here.
Shauntee Daniels:So So those are the museums that we support. So as an executive director, it is my, main responsibility to see the vision that these things are carried out through our, management plan and through our mission statement.
Rob Lee:Thank you. That's that's great. I think, it it gives more life to, like, what happens here? What do they do? You know?
Rob Lee:And I I think there's a couple things that definitely come to mind. You mentioned vision at the end, right? And, you know, I always, like, look at folks when I'm pitching ideas, like, this would make sense to do this. I'm of this. I'm from here.
Rob Lee:I know this. All of this stuff, but also I'm 38, so that's another thing. But I've seen things, you know, and it is it is sort of one of those things of when I'm pitching an idea to someone, they're like, either they get the vision, or they don't get the vision. They understand why this is a good idea, or they don't. But it's not my job to audition.
Rob Lee:It's to pitch it, and it's vetted and all of that stuff. And the other side of it is, I I love this this notion of working with some of the smaller, like, niche institutions because oftentimes, I think folks don't know that, oh, that's here, or even the conversation of Baltimore is the city of firsts and look at all of these lists of firsts. So I think that that's really, really great. And we're gonna put a pin in in some of that stuff, and I wanna go back to 2 sort of, like, sub questions that I have on this initial one. So this one, I like it.
Rob Lee:I like this question a lot. Finding our calling isn't always a direct line. Sometimes it's like my my my, my cords when I came in here and it's just like, I gotta untangle this. Tell me about a time, like, you know, during your, like, professional life journey where you were encouraged to explore, whether it be explore places and getting something out of that in that way or explore, like, different career paths. Tell me a bit about that.
Shauntee Daniels:Oh, man.
Rob Lee:So it sounds different than when I
Shauntee Daniels:wrote it. Yeah. It does sound different, but the the thing about it is that I have, how I arrived here is just a really weird kind of story, but let me go back. So, I'm I am a boomer, so I just wanna let your readers know I'm a boomer. I have a very, how should I say, contemporary, lifestyle Sure.
Shauntee Daniels:As a boomer. I'm right on the cusp. So there is a time when you are in your unless you're in school to study history or be a, you know, archaeologist or something like that, there's a time when history is just put on the shelf. Yeah. You'll learn it in social, you learn social studies in grade school.
Shauntee Daniels:You learn your civics in high school, and then you move on. And unless you're really interested, you kinda put history on the shelf. I grew up in Utah.
Rob Lee:Can I read that? Yes.
Shauntee Daniels:You did. And, no. I'm not black. I am black and no. I'm not a black Mormon.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay. So let me just clear that out for your listeners that I'm not a Mormon. I, grew up in Utah. A very different kind of life for me, whereas I have my family core and my immediate, tribe was African American, African American community. I went to a parochial school, so my friends were white, and then I would come across the fence and through the back fence and come home.
Shauntee Daniels:So my experience has always been very multicultural. Sure. My friends have been white, Italian, German, and we went to a Catholic school. So Roman Catholic Catholicism is all built in there. And then I would come home, and I would be with my black tribe and go to Pentecostal church, go to, Baptist church.
Shauntee Daniels:So my experience has always been multicultural. K. I am one of 5 grandchildren, and I am the middle. Why does that relate to anything? Because I have always been an independent spirit.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. And because of the multicultural, growing up, the independent spirit, because I had to occupy myself. My my siblings are 5 10 years younger than I am. And then my other, cousins are 3 4 years older than me. So I was in the middle of absolutely just my own world.
Rob Lee:Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:And, that that that upbringing made me curious about other people.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:How other people did things, why other people do the things that they do. I don't particularly like the word code switching, but I I got really good at it. Mhmm. And so it carried me all the way through. So, I wanna fast forward because I'll go back to the profession, but I'm gonna fast forward to my arrival in Maryland.
Shauntee Daniels:And the reason why I wanna fast forward because it will give you some perspective in how I got in this this place. When I arrived here with little or new information about African American history other than the NAACP, because that's what my grandfather said. You always wanna have your NAACP card, and you always wanna have your voter's registration card. Those are 2 things that black people need to have.
Rob Lee:100%.
Shauntee Daniels:Don't care whatever you do, and please don't go to the train station with your greasy chicken, sack. That's that was my grandfather, so you get an idea where I was coming from. So, you know, and so when I got here, I think the only African Americans that I had really heard anything about was Thurgood Marshall, Cab Calloway, Billy Holiday, and Martin Luther King. Yeah. So of the 4 of the 4, where are 3 of them from?
Rob Lee:Baltimore.
Shauntee Daniels:Baltimore. So I had an experience of working in DC. I just felt at the time I arrived here, which was 22 years ago in Maryland, DC area, DC was not the place that it is now. Sure. It was still kinda carrying the, the chocolate city.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I was waiting for the chocolate city.
Shauntee Daniels:It was still carrying that, but I could see it was turning pretty mocha and now it is latte.
Rob Lee:It's like when people say, well, you want your coffee. I'm like, look, can you just make mine black?
Shauntee Daniels:Just black, right? So I, so I so I was uncomfortable. Yeah. I was just uncomfortable because I'm so used to a multicultural place. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:So I'm working down there, and I came to Baltimore for a business trip. And I was hanging out, and I was like, this place reminds me of another place I've been before, which was San Francisco Bay Area because I lived there for 22 years. Arrived in San Francisco, another story, but I arrived in San Francisco because it had the my mother moved to Los Angeles with hers, with my stepfather, and LA was too segregated for me.
Rob Lee:Right. Yeah. And I
Shauntee Daniels:went to visit my aunt in San Francisco, and I was like, oh, this is where I need to be. Because it was just it was a multicultural explosion. It was just all but I wanna get back to my my story while I'm here. So I'm going all over the place. I'm going to here.
Shauntee Daniels:Right? I came up here and I saw people of every ethnicity, every shade that were just hospitable.
Rob Lee:Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:And I said, this is where I should be. Yeah. This is where I should be. But as things have it, I still gotta work down in DC. I still gotta live in Prince George's County because that's where my money's coming.
Shauntee Daniels:I don't have a job here. Where am I gonna go work here? I don't know anybody. And so I got really bored with the job I had, which was a, classified sales manager and administrator to a government magazine.
Rob Lee:Like like those details right there. I like that. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:And I was like, this is so boring. I'm just dying. You know what I'm saying? And a friend of mine said, why can't you just take the money and just sit there on your computer and, you know, Internet service? I said, I do not want my brain to atroph.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. I want to experience and know something and grow my mind. So, I came up here, and I decided to go into tour guiding.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:And so, I took some classes. I did some research, I sent out my resume and a small, tour operator that's a lot of people know about is Baltimore. I'm giving them a shout out, Baltimore Rent A Tours. They're we call him Mr. Maryland.
Shauntee Daniels:He interviewed me. He had just bought the business, and he was looking for African American tour guides that would do what they call step on guides. Step on guides are the ones that get on the bus with people, and they take them on. And when you see those large buses going all around Baltimore, that's the person that's giving them a narrated experience. Well, if you don't know anything about the city, what do you do?
Shauntee Daniels:You go home, and you open up your computer, and you get books, and you get everything that you possibly can and you start sucking it all in. You just start absorbing it like a sponge. And that's when I got to know that I was sitting in a place that had more African American history and more connections to who I was, to my journey. Mhmm. And I said, this place is the best.
Rob Lee:Good.
Shauntee Daniels:And so I I did the the tour guide thing, and then I got a job with, the Baltimore City Heritage Area as a Urban Ranger and those are the people that give walking tours down down. So I used to give walking tours of, downtown, Heritage Walk as they call it, Mount Vernon, and I was also the only, for a long time, the only African American that could give a tour in Pennsylvania Avenue. All of that was based up on books and research, not lived experience. Right. Because now, I'm meeting people that are giving me the real story.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. Okay. They're telling me, okay. You can read that book if you want to, but this is a real story. But in 20 years that I have been here, it is like why I love what I do, why I respect Baltimore from a historical point of view.
Shauntee Daniels:Yes. And I'm going to say it. Baltimore has challenges. Yeah. But but what I'm gonna say, Rob, is that Baltimore doesn't have any more challenge than any other city I've ever lived in.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. Okay? Prince George's is set up in such a different way. You don't get it like you do for a city. Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:They got problems. DC's got problems. Chicago's got problems, And I've been to every single one of those places. I've been to Los Angeles. I lived in Los Angeles.
Shauntee Daniels:And I will tell anybody, Los Angeles had probably 200, if that many, gang members when I was in high school in Los Angeles. 200. That was Bloods and Crips. The administration of the Los Angeles Police Department and the Sheriff's Department admittedly let them get bigger.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:They let it happen, and then it just exploded.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:And it became really more of a internal cultural problem because they're they were killing people and families and the whole shebang. Very similar to what's going on in Baltimore. I don't know if it's gang related, but I will tell you, it is no different. Mhmm. Every city has its challenges.
Shauntee Daniels:It's just what I tell people. It's not a joke. But, Kaj, what I tell people, the reason why we get top billing
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Because b is at the top of the at the top of the alphabet. Yep. Go down the list. Baltimore, Chicago Mhmm. Louisiana, blah blah blah blah.
Shauntee Daniels:We we're at the top, so we get it all. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And I'll I'll throw it a go. I mean, we're we're we're speaking the the same language. Yeah. You know? And, you know, as a I'll I'll I'll give you this detail.
Rob Lee:I think I'll I think I haven't shared on this podcast before that I'm I have 2 older half siblings, but I was already like a teenager when I met them, so I always have been like the older brother, and it's like, yeah, you're the middle child. I was like, no, I'm not. That's kind of like You
Shauntee Daniels:know, yeah.
Rob Lee:I have a younger brother, and I have these 2 older siblings,
Shauntee Daniels:like, yeah, you're like little Rob.
Rob Lee:I was, like, nah. I'm very much an independent thinker, and I'm the traveler. I'm the one that dove into this, you know, podcasting back in 2009 before it even people are like, what what what's a podcast? And I've been doing it as as long just out of my own interest. And that goes back to sort of that vision thing of, well, I know this makes sense.
Rob Lee:And I think getting the real story, that's a key thing that I I heard when you were describing of like, you know, you're you're getting sort of the, in this career trajectory, You're getting sort of the, I'm learning this from the books and so on, and that's giving me this sort of, like, baseline, but also let's make it more well rounded. What are the people who have lived it? What are they saying? And that in is is part of what this podcast is for. You know, it's art, culture, community.
Rob Lee:And people say, oh, well, it's got art in a title. It's like, yeah, culture and community are a big piece of it because they feed them, they feed that, they feed the art. So having a sense of, you know, what is the culture in Baltimore? One could say DIY is a big thing here, and that's gonna pop up in the art, that's gonna pop up in the business owners, that's gonna pop up in how communities are organized. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And so it's like those all of those conversations, they need to intersect. So speaking of which, I wanna hit you with this question, so I read that there is at times like this sort of disconnect and I think it's a really good place to have this. It's sort of a disconnect observed with regard to the history in Baltimore, and in how like, so it's a disconnect when it comes to the history here, and I'll even add to it. It's like some stories and some voices, they get the chance to say what their story is and what their Baltimore is and so on, or their like heritages and others. It's like, oh, you need to quiet down.
Rob Lee:That's about you. How do how do you see, like, your role in the the the in the role here in the Baltimore, National Heritage Area, like supporting they bridging that gap.
Shauntee Daniels:It can be challenging, because everybody wants their story to be front and center. Okay? If you look at Baltimore historically, you have okay. So you had indigenous people here first, then you had the white Europeans come in and push them out of the way, take over the land, and then then with that, they bring in enslaved or indentured servants to be here. Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Then following that, you have a a, insurgence of immigrants that came here, escaping war and unpleasantries in their country. Speaking of the Irish, who were lower class, not identified as the, the, the blue bloods of the Europeans, so they were treated like garbage. And then you have a whole litany of other people that came here. Mhmm. Now why do I put that out there is because whose story gets to be told first?
Rob Lee:Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:None of them. Collectively collectively, they made Baltimore what it was. Unfortunately, the majority of Baltimore was built on enslaved and indentured black people.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Then you come and you put the layer of the European saying, well, we don't wanna talk about that. Yep. We did our part. We did not, concede to the south. We fought it as long as we could.
Shauntee Daniels:We don't wanna talk about that. So everybody's history gets pushed out to the front except for African Americans who are standing in the shadows with so much contribution to the building of this city brick by brick
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:That it it deserves to be brought to the front now. We are now in a renaissance. May not be Harlem renaissance. It may not be the renaissance that happened in in what, 20 years ago when Bill Clinton moved to Harlem, But we are in a renaissance. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:And it's time to recognize those people that put their life, their limbs, their blood in building the city. Now how do I reckon that
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:As a heritage area? Anybody has an opportunity to come to us and ask us, will you support this project? Will you grant this project? That's how we do it. I don't as a black woman, people would think, and they do and they do put me in that position.
Shauntee Daniels:As a black woman, you should be one to tell my story.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:I would not be I I can't say fair, equitable, and equal if I take one story over another story because I'm a black woman.
Rob Lee:Right.
Shauntee Daniels:This is an organization. You didn't ask me for my personal opinion. Mhmm. You're asking me from an organizational point of view. And from an organizational point of view, everybody's story's important.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Yes. I do have affinity to black stories because that's what people want. Yeah. It's sort of like the news. If it bleeds, it leads.
Shauntee Daniels:People right now wanna know about black people because they have not known. Yeah. So you're gonna give them what they want. And and that's that's one of
Rob Lee:the things that I encountered in in doing this series. Right? So, as as I touched on earlier, I'm a lifeguard that's almost 40, and I'm from Baltimore. So the way I curate and the way I select people, everybody doesn't come on here. I don't invite everyone on here.
Rob Lee:There are some people who's like, I don't have a lot of interest in kinda how you go about things or what you're doing.
Shauntee Daniels:I I I I just feel that makes me feel so warm inside. I feel so privileged.
Rob Lee:But but in it, you know, the sort of sensibility is sitting there of, well, this is my perspective or what have you. Now as it gets to a spot where, let's say, this becomes a project that's, like, fully funded, I have to think of these sort of other considerations. That's a that's a factor that comes into play. But also I've had folks who hit me in the DMs that will question how black I am or question how much of a Baltimorean I am because it's like I'm broadening out what that narrative is based on what my interest is. And folks will ask me, how are you curators?
Rob Lee:Like, whatever interests me. I'm gonna have this sensibility because I am this. But also I'm into a lot of other things that catch my attention and curiosity.
Shauntee Daniels:We're not as black people, we we don't have all the same interest.
Rob Lee:Right. Some of my life.
Shauntee Daniels:And we have not we're not monolithic, and and white people aren't. So why are you expecting me? Because because of my skin tone? Mhmm. No.
Shauntee Daniels:Now I do like some some beats to my music if that's what you're gonna ask me. I wanna hear some rhythm in there, but you'd be surprised that what I listen to on my series right now. Same same. Same.
Shauntee Daniels:See, that's
Shauntee Daniels:what I'm saying. And then a person that grew up in Utah, do you know the first music I ever heard? Definitely. Well, definitely, nobody would even know who this is, but David Cassie and the Partridge family.
Rob Lee:I didn't know this.
Shauntee Daniels:So okay. Okay. The Osmonds. So when you when you when you have that kind of learning and that kind of environment, you you that makes me that that's what takes me out of the box. Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay? It it doesn't put me in that box. So people are interested in different things.
Rob Lee:It it gives the the the sort of crossover thing where, you know, when I do these interviews in other cities that I was talking about earlier with New Orleans, I see that New Orleans connection to Baltimore. I see that Philadelphia connection. I see that DC connection. And I made a concerted effort to say, alright, let me do a little bit more work there. It's something that clicks whenever I go there.
Rob Lee:It's a feeling, it's a sensibility that that pops. And this is the thing that's really interesting. Specifically because I've done a lot of the other interviews in, Philly. Right?
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:I've had folks who are like, yo, are you from here? I was like, no, I'm from East Baltimore. I go very specific. I'm from East Baltimore. Right?
Rob Lee:And they're like, nah, you're from here. That's like, I am from Baltimore. And it's like, I see the beard, bro. I was like, love to come from Baltimore. Right?
Rob Lee:And it is one of those things where they they see that sort of likeness and that approach to it. And even the the other thing of democratizing. Right? Whose stories matter? Whose voices matter?
Shauntee Daniels:There is a dotted line if you go back historically and look at all things like you you mentioned it earlier about the niche museums and Baltimore City of First. So the City of First does something. If you do a dotted line out of Baltimore to every major city, every major port, Baltimore is is the mother ship. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because we are connected to every place, whether it was through the the great migration of people moving to Chicago and other places out of Baltimore, the trains that took people out of Baltimore, took shipments, took cargo out of Baltimore.
Shauntee Daniels:If you take and you look at the, the enslaved people that were caught here, that were manumitted, caught here, and taken deep south into Louisiana and other place to work the cotton Mhmm. Fields. We are prime. We are prime. You've gotta recognize.
Shauntee Daniels:You gotta come to Baltimore and see why are you so important. Mhmm. And people do ask all the time, are you from here? And I and I don't turn up my nose like, no. I'm not from here.
Shauntee Daniels:I I say, no. I'm not. I'm not.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:But I I am passionate about Baltimore. I'm just as passionate about Baltimore as I am San Francisco Bay Area. Mhmm. Because those are the two places that I have I can now say I have spent the most time in. Now I am edging up of being here longer than I was in in California.
Shauntee Daniels:But those are the 2 places, and to me, they have very simp no. No. They don't. At one time, well, no. I'm gonna say my last visit there and checking back with my friends and colleagues back there, so I'm I'm gonna wrap this to another something.
Shauntee Daniels:So you're gonna have to either splice this out or you can do whatever you wanna, but they're very connected, from a landscape point of view. The water, all that kind of stuff, that's what attracted me to it because I was like, this is like a little slice of home. Right? It looks the same. The problem is is that, for both places is the gentrification of neighborhoods, number 1
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Did it in the Bay Area, did it in San Francisco, and the absolute audacity of people with money, building another Baltimore outside of Baltimore that really does give me heartburn. I'm talking about the Baltimore Peninsula.
Rob Lee:Oh, It's spicy. Love it.
Shauntee Daniels:That is another Baltimore Peninsula and and the Harbor East. Yep. Great attractions for people with money and affluent to come, but you are building another city outside the city, because you don't wanna deal with the with the real problems. Mhmm. That is a problem for me.
Shauntee Daniels:They did it in San Francisco too. Bayview Hunters Point. They put those black people way up on that hill because it was close to the water, and now they're realizing that that is prime property.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:And they're trying to eradicate them. Where are they gonna send them? And that's
Rob Lee:and that's
Shauntee Daniels:So it's just really that that's what's getting under my skin right now.
Rob Lee:That's sort of one of the things that you see when you start asking questions. I I think what we were talking about beforehand, why, you know, I could take a hint. You know? I was like, I'm just doing the the the too real of a thing and maybe that's why certain folks don't really support what I'm doing in a really tangible way. But, you know, when I start asking questions and they get curious, like, you know, when we were talking about coming up, like that East Baltimore, that that, you know, the library and all.
Rob Lee:And I'm like, yeah. It's cool. Let's do that. I was like, so these other entities, I was not asking questions. Where's the market and where's the stuff over here for people?
Rob Lee:Same thing I was saying. I said I walked around here in a bit. It's like, there's a historical area. There's a couple museums over here. This is here.
Rob Lee:But it's like, where's sort of the investment? And then to hear to your point about, you know, that that heartburn, it's like, there are investments in other way, in other places. And I was like, because it's not a priority. It's like it's no longer at a point of asking questions as much as and I know what this is. Because it's because every city is the same.
Rob Lee:And, you know, it is one point when I first started as you you touched on it earlier, You know, when people talk about Baltimore's this and that. It's like it's the same. This is you know, I go to Philadelphia. I know the same places to go. I was like, there's gonna be a coffee place right there on that corner and that is the gentrification I ordered.
Rob Lee:It's it's it's it's kinda like back to back. But, you know what you're looking for. So I wanna ask this. I wanna ask this question. Because I because film film has come up.
Rob Lee:Film has come up in some of the research. So can you tell us a bit about the film Voices of the Black Butterfly? Because I think all of this connects. I think this connects.
Shauntee Daniels:Well, the they like I said, the vision. So let let me just say this, I am not a filmmaker.
Rob Lee:No one is.
Shauntee Daniels:No. But you know, I was like, I've I've just been realizing it's like, oh, you're supposed to be telling a story in a film, aren't you? Okay. So I'm not a filmmaker. I've worked with 2 really good filmmakers, in in in producing some some products that we have out, which is So I'm gonna answer your question, but let me go back to the original first film that we did, which is, by any means necessary.
Shauntee Daniels:Yep. Stories of survival. 2019, I become the national the heritage areas is eating and I'm like but but right the year before that 18, there's just a lot of conversation about the squeegees.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:Blah blah blah blah blah. They're doing that. They're doing that. I don't wanna see them. Oh, yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. And I curiosity. I'm like, I wonder why they do it.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. Well, I become the ED. Now I've got I can do what I wanna do. Okay? I don't have to ask anybody except for my board, can I spend some money like this?
Shauntee Daniels:And they say, well, you know what, we don't get into the management. You do what you need to do. Okay. Fine. So I produced that film.
Rob Lee:Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:It was it it it was heartbreaking. It was truthful, and I'm telling you, nobody hardly wanted to see it. It was hard. Mhmm. You know, you talk about shopping your products around, say, it's like, act now.
Shauntee Daniels:We were lucky to get it on MPT. I was able to take it down to Annapolis. It just it wasn't like it was a cure all, it was just opening Pandora's box and saying, look, there's a lot of problems. You can't just take people off the corner and think that they're you're gonna change their lives by giving them a job at $15 an hour. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:It's not gonna change. So anyway, so I did that. Then we were doing a lot of outreach, and usually what comes up, Rob, is people ask, what is a heritage area? It's not tangible. I can't touch it.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:So what is it? So I said, you know what? I'm gonna do a film about interviewing, a very multicultural group of people from different walks of life, different aspects about what it is about Baltimore that makes Baltimore different. The, Miles Banks was the videographer and he did a wonderful job. So he interviewed, we interviewed, our golly, 8, 9, 8 or 9 people.
Shauntee Daniels:I cannot remember off top of my head. We interviewed a number of people, white, black, Chinese, native American. What else? What else did we hit? Oh, oh, Latina x from, the Cielo Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:Women at Creative Alliance. We interviewed all of these people, for their their take on culture, their take on Baltimore, their take on where they fit in. And then on top of that, Miles did some aerials of the city. Mhmm. We had fantastic weather.
Shauntee Daniels:When he did it, it wasn't dark and gray. He did some great. And then we introduced the what is a heritage area?
Rob Lee:Nice.
Shauntee Daniels:So that is what the intention was from Voices of Blood. Now, I got my film, did it a little backwards, what do you wanna call it? At the same time, there was a lot of conversation about, the legacy of the black butterfly. Yep. It's it.
Shauntee Daniels:There's no trademark on that, you know. So we called it the voices of a black butterfly because we were taking perspectives from all over the butterfly and saying what a heritage area is. So that was the impetus for me making that film is because I really wanted people to know what a heritage area is, what why we do this work. There are 62 heritage areas across the country. All of us different.
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. I say my. My heritage area is probably the smallest, geographically Yeah. Because I am in 1, one jurisdiction, but I am not the full city.
Rob Lee:Right.
Shauntee Daniels:So mine's probably the smallest where a lot of other heritage areas go multiple counties, they go in a vertical way instead of a horizontal way. So I'm the smallest, just the right size for me because I don't really I don't really like politicking. Mhmm. When you have multiple jurisdictions, you have to politic with commissioners, county execs from all these different places. You gotta make sure everybody's on the same page.
Shauntee Daniels:I got just one set of people that I have to deal with other than, my state delegates and, my federal, congressional leads. That's only at a max, that's 3? Yep. At the at the at the federal level? 2 at the 2, and I say that because there's senators.
Shauntee Daniels:Senators at the at the state level and then city council. Yeah. So it's just big enough for me. And the other thing is that Baltimore is very insular. Sure.
Shauntee Daniels:Very 6 degrees by separation kind of thing going on here. Right. And so if you know one person then you could easily get to another person because that person knows the other person. So, but that was the point of making Voices of a Black Butterfly Yeah. Is because I really wanted to educate people on what makes a heritage area.
Shauntee Daniels:We are talking about 2 different things and people say, what's the difference between and I speak to this because of the podcast. There is heritage area and then we talk about culture. Mhmm. Okay. So, people say, well, they're the they're they're the same thing and technically depending on how you talk about them, they are the same thing.
Shauntee Daniels:However, in our world, the way that we defined it, heritage is the history of something. Mhmm. Culture is the way of doing something. Mhmm. So that's how we do that.
Shauntee Daniels:So we are not only a heritage area, but we are a cultural preservationist as well. We want to be able to preserve people's culture. Yeah. We don't want to homogenize everybody, you know. That that that was the problem in the sixties.
Shauntee Daniels:Good. Perms perms and a little hair and and we got in order to fit in, assimilation. We don't have to assimilate anymore. Now, we can all celebrate who we are individually. We can bring that up to the top, and then we have our history that carries us forward.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay? And so that's what I that's that's what what made me decide to do voices of the black butterfly.
Rob Lee:Thank you. It's it's one of the things where especially in doing this. Like, people people like this. People, you know, when I have different things that I'm doing and they look at the the card, they see the picture on the card, which is a cartoon, and they see me. If I'm wearing that hat, which is a real hat, they're like, you're a guy.
Rob Lee:You're you're a dude. And I was like, oh. And if you were like, you have groupies. I was like, I do not. I'm just a guy that does a podcast, but the point I think of getting that is people are looking for sort of the real.
Rob Lee:People are looking for what feels like an authentic conversation in there, some some truth, if you will, and and what goes on there. So people gravitate towards that, and if you can work in and pepper in, you know, at least from what I'm doing and how I approach it, If I can pepper in, you know, this is a moment in time. I'm capturing their story at this time. You know, we may do an interview in 2 years or another year from now or what have you, and that priority may shift. But it's still sort of, like, capturing us as a moment in time for folks to look further, to to, like, continue down that path as the invitation, really.
Shauntee Daniels:Did you happen to notice that after the murder of George Floyd Mhmm. That people start talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion?
Rob Lee:Oof, Jedi here. Just as in the beginning, did some times.
Shauntee Daniels:I'm serious. I mean, there were probably there were probably universities and individuals that were doing the work prior to that. Mhmm. But it did not claim those acronyms until that point.
Rob Lee:I feel like the the SEO, you know, the search engine optimization went went up, because I was doing 2 podcasts actually when during that summer, You know? And I was doing this one and this is, you know, we're we're home for the most part. And so a lot of time to to to do more interviews and do more work. And spend more time on on online and on the Instagram. And I'm a 6 foot 4, 300 pound black man.
Rob Lee:So I that's what my experience is. And I I remember I was very, vocal about sort of what that experience looks like, and it's, you know, related to what happened, you know, the murder of George Floyd, and and so that the the protests and the actions around that. And, you know, I had people in my DM. That didn't happen. Stick to the stick to arts.
Rob Lee:None of the stuff that you experienced. I was like, you're gonna tell me what my experience is. So it's interesting. It's like, be real and talk about things in this way. And I'll throw this in there because I got 2 more questions I wanna key in on, but I'll throw this in there because I think it's funny.
Rob Lee:Yeah, you have, like, sort of like, civil war reenactments and stuff, so it was like it was a video that was really funny. It was Civil War reenactment, and it's this guy, black dude, he pulls up, and he's kinda got, like, shackles on. He's like, I wanna play. I wanna be a part of this. And they were like, sir, you can't do this, this wasn't happening during this time.
Rob Lee:He's like, but it was. He's like, can I be in? This is historically accurate, right? And he's I was like, we don't wanna talk about that. And I was like, you don't.
Rob Lee:And it's this because I noticed at that time Mhmm. It's this sort of sanitization of or sanitizing of what things have been. Because also during that summer, I've seen a more a few more disclaimers of things that this some viewers may find us to be racially insensitive. I was like, but you shot it, wrote it, filmed it, edited it, and chose where to be there. And now, 20 years removed or what have you, now we we we're considering it.
Rob Lee:It's already done the damage. It's already made us money. Mhmm. So it's that work is is happening, obviously, but also it seems like people needed to make their statement around it to seem like we're not messed up. It's like, are you?
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let let's talk about, programs. Let's talk about programming that's coming up.
Rob Lee:Because I I see spring, fall, heritage, recreational programs, that are coming up. Are any that you can speak to as of now and, let me go back and give
Shauntee Daniels:you a give you a run through.
Rob Lee:Love run throughs.
Shauntee Daniels:I know. I wanna give you a run through. I know I don't wanna start with the the I wanna start with things that are coming and then lead into the thing that's coming up. So if you recall, I mentioned that when I became an ED, one of the things is about youth. I'm really, okay.
Shauntee Daniels:So I do a film about by any means necessary, I see these young, young men who are you know, basically, they're challenged. They are challenged in a lot of ways. But what what I would I'm more concerned about, giving youth an opportunity to be children. Our young kids don't have a chance to be. They are struggling with so many things at home, at school, and life that, I wanted to find programs that really can get let them be children.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:So, prior to prior, my predecessor, in the in Fort McHenry came up with a program called, kids in kayaks. So they identify 8th graders because they're they're they're at the age where they you think you can trust them. I'm saying this in parentheses. Because at that time, I remember the teacher saying, do you know what 8th and 7th and 8th grade, they're they're practically insane, don't you? Because the hormones are absurd, and they are just like and they are.
Shauntee Daniels:But we picked 8th graders. So 8th graders go out on the middle branch, and they learn about the history of the water, what that means to Baltimore, but they also get to have a recreational opportunity at the same time. It's not you know, all of us learn differently.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:And sometimes through activity, the the actual lesson or the curriculum will stay in in in the mental capacity. So they do kids in kayaks. Well, my idea was let's do kids on bikes, on trails because I realized that there are a number of young young people in Baltimore that do not know how to ride a bike.
Rob Lee:I don't know how to ride a bike. Shut the fuck. I'm sorry.
Shauntee Daniels:Shut oh my god. Okay. Well, anyway, that's okay. Board. I was saying board.
Shauntee Daniels:I'm sorry. It doesn't matter. You still need to know how to ride a bike. Okay? You need to know how to ride a bike.
Shauntee Daniels:Everybody's gonna ride a bike. So, well, that's the whole intention. And so we are doing 9th and 11th graders because they can be trusted, to get on a bike and stay within the track. Yeah. So we do biking from Gwen Falls, that's one of the the trails.
Shauntee Daniels:The other trail is around the fort, which I'll get to that, around the fort to learn about the history of the fort and they get to learn how to ride a bike. The practice is they learn how to ride a bike, they learn how to fix a bike, they understand safety, so that they can go home and be a part of a community. You know? So that that's those are the 2 programs. We also have a program for little 4th graders called every kid in the park.
Shauntee Daniels:Well, it's called something else now, but we won't get into that. And 4th graders are taken to, which is outside of my heritage area, so I'll be very honest about that, is Hampton. Mhmm. And they learn about the Hampton location. And then they go to Carrie Murray Center, and they go to Fort McHenry to and it's a part of their 4th grade curriculum.
Shauntee Daniels:Right. And this year, we introduced a program called Arts in the Park. It was mainly a trauma diffuser with an educational component. So they had an artist come in, set up canvases, they gave them different color paints and told them to make their own flag. And they could do it any way they wanted to so they slammed paint up against a canvas, and some of them did well, some of them just expressed themselves, which it was called it's called a diffuser.
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. You know, just get it out because some of these kids are coming from neighborhoods that are just riddled with crime and gunshots, and they just needed to let go. So that is my place with the children. So that's what we're doing in the fall. So we'll run that program with Baltimore Public Schools, in the fall till it gets too cold, and then we come back in the spring, and we do it again in the spring.
Shauntee Daniels:So we are engaging, Baltimore's. We also work with, charter schools as well. So it's any any of those 8th grade, 9th, and 10th, 11th graders, and 4th graders that are that wanna come and do that. So that's one thing that we're doing. We have, our this is the thing that I really wanna put out there.
Shauntee Daniels:So wherever you are, we have the It's A Snap photo contest that is running from April through December 31st. We changed the whole model for this year only is to capture what makes Baltimore charming. It's not just the buildings that make it charming. It's the people.
Rob Lee:That means it's just gonna be a lot of pictures of good old Rob Lee, popping up now. Okay. Well, that's fine.
Shauntee Daniels:We'll take a picture of Rob Lee. But, you know, what we want is we want pictures that, are inclusive of the landscape of Baltimore, but people in them. So we've got lots of festivals going on. We're back at the the COVID era. So people are out.
Shauntee Daniels:They're enjoying it. We've had some really hot weather. So that's that's an opportunity to see pools and people walking their dogs and just, so we're hoping that, by December 31st, we will have a collection of photos to do a, online jury. Yeah. And the winners, we will select 13.
Shauntee Daniels:They will have an opportunity to have an exhibit at the PO Wow.
Rob Lee:In March. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:So we're gonna have an exhibit, and hopefully, we'll have some great pictures showing what makes Baltimore special and charming. You know what I mean? It's charm city, it's the monumental city, it's the star spangled banner city. I don't know. Whatever you wanna call it, it is a charming place to visit, to work, and play.
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. So that's what we're doing. And then what you really wanna know about is, on July 29th, I believe that is. Yes, it is. It's a Saturday.
Shauntee Daniels:We are going to, be on core screening, Voices of a Black Butterfly at Creative Alliance. It is open to the public, it is free. And then we are going to have a community town hall about culture and how it integrates into each neighborhood in Baltimore. And I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna ask you a trivia question. Okay.
Shauntee Daniels:So how many separate neighborhoods make up Baltimore? The mosaic of neighborhoods.
Rob Lee:I I wrote that in a later question. I wanna say
Shauntee Daniels:50 ish. Wow. There's 274 eclectic neighborhoods. Really? Yes.
Shauntee Daniels:Wow. The Tapestry. Every place has I mean, it might only be 4 blocks, but it's a neighborhood. Okay? So like Union, the the Hollands Market neighborhood, there's 274.
Shauntee Daniels:Wow. The heritage area only has a 136 in our, in our catchment.
Rob Lee:Sure.
Shauntee Daniels:So About half? Yeah. So Yeah. It's about half. So we are a city of neighborhoods.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. Each one of those neighborhoods has a story. Yeah. Now what makes that story is very unique. It might be the immigration story, it might be, segregation, but each one has its own story.
Shauntee Daniels:So that's what it is. Now, that is what we're going to do. And more what's gonna be my biggest question at this town hall, which I'm not going to be the facilitator. Janine Whitfield from, American Visionary Arts Museum is the facilitator. But my biggest question is and this is to you.
Shauntee Daniels:I want a spot here. You're on the spot because you are East Baltimore person. Right? Okay. I am believe me, my head hurts.
Shauntee Daniels:My head hurts.
Rob Lee:Uh-huh. That'll be awesome.
Shauntee Daniels:One city. It is not 2. It is not North and South Carolina. It is one city.
Shauntee Daniels:How come we've got 2 different sets
Shauntee Daniels:of people? It's just different vibes. Well, you know what? Ain't no lie about that. But when you're an outsider coming in and you're and you're trying to do collective history Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:And storytelling, you know, like, what you talking about?
Rob Lee:It's it's the it's like the thing where, like, my partner, she's a New Yorker. Oh,
Shauntee Daniels:my God.
Rob Lee:So it's it's a version of that. When she came down, she's like, no, I get it. She's like, I've lived You get it. She's like, I've lived in all the boroughs and people say, oh, it's just New York. And she's like, that's Manhattan.
Rob Lee:So that's
Shauntee Daniels:number 1. Yeah. But, yeah. Okay. Okay.
Shauntee Daniels:I'll But
Rob Lee:Baltimore is very small in that regard
Shauntee Daniels:as well. Yeah.
Rob Lee:New York is enormous. Enormous. So
Shauntee Daniels:And I get it where you could go out
Shauntee Daniels:to Long Island and live your whole life in Long Island and never go into Manhattan. I cannot get it through my head that you live in East Baltimore and you have never been to Carroll Park.
Rob Lee:I have been to Carroll Park. Sorry.
Shauntee Daniels:No. You are a traveled man. You don't count. You're right. You're right.
Shauntee Daniels:But you don't count. I don't understand living in Baltimore your whole life and never been to Patterson Park.
Rob Lee:I'll say I'll say this. This is the It
Shauntee Daniels:blows my mind.
Rob Lee:This this is the thing I would hear all the time, and I would hear it,
Shauntee Daniels:at
Rob Lee:at morgue when I was there. You would, you'd talk to different folks. You had folks from DMV, Baltimore,
Shauntee Daniels:somewhere around. Right. Right.
Rob Lee:And I just remember one guy at the back was like, yeah, I'm gonna go east. And someone from D. C. Asked me, what does he mean? I was like, he's likely in East Baltimore, you know, not me in West Baltimore, he will not go East Baltimore.
Rob Lee:It's like Baltimore is not that big. I was like, I know, and that's the rub.
Shauntee Daniels:It's just this, it's it's just amazing to me. And I cannot my, staff member, outreach manager, she's a West Baltimore. And we were talking about she was thinking about moving. Right? And I was like, well, this is a cute little house.
Shauntee Daniels:Oh, she goes, I see it's Baltimore. I'm not moving over there. I'm like, what? This is a great house. I'm not living over there.
Shauntee Daniels:I can't explain it to you. I don't wanna live over there. It's And and we had a big old we had a big old road about that.
Rob Lee:It's almost like being from a different country in some regards, like, like, a lot of my family's from West Baltimore and I was born in, like, West Baltimore, so I was like, oh, okay, cool, But it's like when I was 5, I moved to Lafayette projects and we've been in the East Baltimore for the last 33 years. So it was just like very much east Baltimorean, but, but, you know, some of my other family, those, my dad and my brother, they live out there in the county and they were refused to come into the city. And I was like, there's
Shauntee Daniels:like they really
Rob Lee:It's a whole other angle. You know? It's like You don't
Shauntee Daniels:wanna come to the city?
Rob Lee:No. And I was like, everything is here though.
Shauntee Daniels:Like, there's nobody Which county are they in? Baltimore County or Anne Arundel?
Rob Lee:I'm like, they're they're in Cockeysville. So yeah. Yeah. And they're close enough. It's like, hey.
Rob Lee:But I'm going to Pennsylvania. I was like, Dutch country? You go to Dutch country, but won't come into the city.
Shauntee Daniels:I was
Rob Lee:like, alright. Cool. You get it. That makes sense.
Shauntee Daniels:But you know so it but that's that's the big question that will be on my if they give me a question like, so what would what would make you go to West Baltimore? What kind of event? Mhmm. Or what kind of activity would draw you to East Baltimore? What is it that makes you and so the other piece of this, the reason why this is a curious thing to me is because as a heritage area, I represent both sides.
Rob Lee:100%. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:And so what I'm trying to do is and when I fail, I we, not just me, but myself, what I failed to do is to crack the egg in East Baltimore. So I have been engaging, the East Baltimore Historical Library and having this event at Creative Alliance. I really want to get the heritage area to get it more engaged in East Baltimore.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:Because they don't they don't even know I'm over here. You know what I'm saying? They just like, oh, that's the West Baltimore thing. I represent the entire structure of storytellers whether you're from east, west, north, or south.
Rob Lee:Yep.
Shauntee Daniels:So, that's one reason why we picked Creative Alliance. They're a great partner, so we decided to go there. And then Janine is fantastic. Absolutely. And she said I would be more than happy.
Shauntee Daniels:She didn't know I was trying to get her somebody I know that she's very close to to be the facilitator and be the guest, and she says, oh, no. This is mine. Okay. So, and then the last thing I really want to emphasize to you, and your listeners in this podcast, and especially, those of African American descent, that are native to Baltimore, have lived here all their lives. Their parents lived here all their lives.
Shauntee Daniels:Their grandparents lived here all their lives and their great great grandparents. Is that I want them to engage at Fort McHenry. Now we've got 2 problems. Okay? Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:There's the flag, an issue. Mhmm. There is the war of 18/12 and the battle and defense of Baltimore in 18/14. In that time, there were black people that were still enslaved. Good.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay. Now this is where I get really serious and I get really passionate. That for could not have existed without black people. Like I said earlier, life, limb, blood loss to build it. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:I'm not talking about no battles. You built it. Yeah. It is sacred ground to you. Do not let that alienate you from going there.
Shauntee Daniels:It is a park. The fort it's called Fort McHenry because there is a fort there.
Rob Lee:Mhmm.
Shauntee Daniels:But in the bigger picture of everything, it is a beautiful fort, and park with ramparts where you can see the water. You can sit there, you can ride your bike, you can walk your dog, you can have a lunch. I want people to take it back. Yep. Take it back.
Shauntee Daniels:Don't let it belong to somebody else. It belongs to you because if you are native to this place called Baltimore, and I'm talking about generational native, it belongs to you, because more than likely there isn't a brick, there isn't a stone that some black person did not put their hands on. So it is sacred ground, and I want people to recognize that. So on defenders day, which is normally September 12th, on September 16th is the official defender's day celebration. Where you will see, 100 of 42 to 75 year old white people out there.
Shauntee Daniels:I do wanna see some black people represented other than myself and a few others. Mhmm. Come to the fort, make representation, stand on that hallowed ground and claim it back. Don't give it to anybody else. We have given up enough.
Rob Lee:That's great. That's great. Thank you. I think that's actually where we can end on the real questions.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay.
Rob Lee:But you gotta get the rapid fire questions.
Shauntee Daniels:I heard that before. Uh-huh. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:So rapid fire.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay.
Rob Lee:This is the way this is the way this this works. I got, well, I got 5 of them.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay.
Rob Lee:No. 4. I got 4. I just have 4. So you're you're lucky.
Rob Lee:You just have 4. Okay. You know, don't overthink them. Just whatever the the answer is. It's like I said what I said.
Rob Lee:Alright. So here we go. Yeah. Here's the first one. What was the last book you read?
Shauntee Daniels:Oh, okay. This has come up before. I have a Gullah Geechee New Testament Bible sitting on my bed, and I am trying to get through that Bible because the language is very different than what I've ever heard before. So my friend that is down in the Gullah Geechee, heritage area, she sent me the bible and then it's sitting on my bed at nightstand and I tried to get me read every now and then.
Rob Lee:I I I hear you. Okay. So because I listened to a previous interview of yours, I modified this this next question a little bit.
Shauntee Daniels:I don't know.
Rob Lee:Uh-huh. What is the most fascinating Baltimore historical fact you've learned in the last year? Because I remember you qualified it for the person asking you. I liked it. No.
Shauntee Daniels:Gosh. You're god. What did I say? I have no idea.
Rob Lee:No. No. You were you like, they they didn't have it on a time frame. You're like, no. Well, this is what I've learned in the last year.
Rob Lee:And I was like, okay. This is good. Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:You're gonna make me think that one over because I don't know what I said.
Rob Lee:Well, just you can just say anything that comes to mind in terms of, like, just an interesting factoid that's popped up.
Shauntee Daniels:Oh, there's this you know what? There are very there's a lot of stuff I don't know that one day I learned. So, I'm doing a research for National Park Service for, the 2 America 250. So we're trying to identify different people that would be good for this. And, if I remember correctly, so I may be misquoting, somebody's gonna call me and say you're wrong, but I I what I remember from the historian is that, Baltimore had the first Planned Parenthood, facility.
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. And it was for all women. It wasn't just for white women. And, in light of what just happened in the last year, that that there there goes another first for Baltimore. Okay.
Shauntee Daniels:That's that's one.
Rob Lee:You've described Baltimore as a mosaic or a quilt. Uh-huh. Yeah. I listen to podcasts. Could you tell us in that in that vein, could you tell us 2 hidden gems or lesser known spots?
Rob Lee:It could be any type of spot. It could be like, I like to go over there to get this chicken as fire, but also I like to get my smoothies here. What is the lesser known spots that are, like, on your list of must go to places in Baltimore. Which are 270 It's 274 Uh-huh. Neighborhoods.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:So the the one place that I I've enjoyed is the Gwen's Falls. I went there well, I actually was in, what is that? Windsor Hill Windsor Mills. Mhmm. Windsor Hills Windsor Hills, isn't it?
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. Windsor Mills. It's Windsor Mills. I was in Windsor Mills about 12 years ago. Didn't know where I was.
Shauntee Daniels:Yep. Okay. Great. And then later years, I was able to go, to that same community to take my godson to, Outward Bound.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Shauntee Daniels:And during that, I was able to experience the outdoors. Yeah. And so I think that it is just beautiful, and it's inside the city, which was kinda neat. And then I also like Montebello, Lake Montebello. I love Lake Montebello.
Shauntee Daniels:Near City College. Like, I
Rob Lee:went to school.
Shauntee Daniels:Well, I just I walked around it, and I really did think that, you know, because, you know, you all you're always seeking those things that you're nostalgic for, and it reminded me of, Lake Merritt in Oakland.
Rob Lee:Nice.
Shauntee Daniels:So, therefore, yes, those are those are my hidden gems. Now, I got a problem with food because I don't eat just anything. Uh-uh. But I am stuck and this is a shout out to them. Everybody's gonna say, why would you pick them?
Shauntee Daniels:I am stuck on icky pan. Oh, that fire. I am stuck on crunchy shrimp and tempura broccoli. Tempura broccoli is fire. I love it.
Shauntee Daniels:And so that is that was my engine. And then I found out that there's 3 of them so I could go into 3 different ones. Anywhere I am, I could go to a pagan bed.
Rob Lee:So this is this is the last one. This one was retired for a while because people were, like, really, like, look, man, that's a political question, bro. You can ask me that. It's a ridiculous question. It's as simple as what is your preference?
Rob Lee:Chunky or creamy when it comes to your peanut butter? People thought it was a political question. That's how, like, controversial some people thought about.
Shauntee Daniels:See, that I eat peanut butter. I don't care.
Rob Lee:So you
Shauntee Daniels:need, like, whatever it is. If it's chunky, I don't I I when I go to the store, I don't go say, oh, I gotta have chunky. I like both of them. Sure. Now, the problem with chunky is it tears your bread up.
Shauntee Daniels:If you use if you just use regular bread and you don't toast your bread, that's the only thing that kinda tears it up. But I like I like both of them.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I I I it depend for me, it depends on the jelly. Right?
Shauntee Daniels:So So what kind of jelly you like? I like strawberry. Oh, no.
Rob Lee:Strawberry preserves would be
Shauntee Daniels:Oh, no. I like grape. So I don't know if you guys have that question. Grape. Grape.
Shauntee Daniels:What grape is just too, generic? Yeah. Generic. Yeah. Generic.
Shauntee Daniels:Okay.
Rob Lee:I like I like the French mixed berry one with the
Shauntee Daniels:Well, let me just tell
Rob Lee:you a story.
Shauntee Daniels:When you grow up in a house where the people in the house make grape jelly
Rob Lee:That's different. That's much different.
Shauntee Daniels:That's why you like grape jelly. I grew up in the house where we they made grape jelly. But I tell you something. So This is what I used to eat as a kid. On Sunday, my grandma would say we're gonna bake a cake.
Shauntee Daniels:Mhmm. Now she wasn't gonna bake no cake where it was gonna have frosted and everything else. She'd bake a cake after our dinner, and guess what I used to put on it? As people say, I'm country. I am not country.
Shauntee Daniels:Applesauce.
Rob Lee:That's not bad, actually.
Shauntee Daniels:It's delicious and especially if the apple sauce is fresh because grandmother would go pick apples, and she would come and she would make apple sauce because apple sauce, real apple sauce is not yellow.
Rob Lee:No. It's not. It's pink
Shauntee Daniels:because they leave the skin on it as they stir it. And we would take and have hot cake. Something with apple sauce over it and that would be the snack and I'm telling you. That's
Rob Lee:that's fantastic.
Shauntee Daniels:So anyway, that's, that that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Rob Lee:Sales are like Soul Factoid to kinda wrap on. So one, I wanna thank you for coming on to this podcast and spending some time with me and inviting me into the office. And, and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you in these final moments to, share a website where folks can check out more. The floor is yours.
Shauntee Daniels:I don't have much to say other than go to explore baltimoredot org, reach out and find us on Instagram. We are also on Facebook. And if you really wanna talk to me, you can find me on LinkedIn. That's what I like. I like to have interactions on LinkedIn.
Shauntee Daniels:I can have real something that people can't touch. Yeah. So it's hard for them to get it's like, oh, that's not heritage area. Like like, you know, you should see their face. Everybody's like, what's that?
Shauntee Daniels:It's hard to touch, but it is just basically a collective place of our history, our culture, and the landscape and what makes this place wonderful. And I will tell you, I'm not supposed to do this, but there are 62 heritage areas across the country. Yep. And all you gotta do is go on to MPS and look up National Heritage Area. And our intention is to work with our partners, work with businesses, work with local government to encourage heritage tourism, which means taxpayers paying money, make quality of life for everyone, not just for some, and a place to play.
Shauntee Daniels:Yeah. It's your it's your backyard park. So that's what a heritage area is.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Shanti Daniels from the Baltimore National Heritage Area. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
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