The Truth In This Art with photographer Faith Couch

Welcome to the Truth in This Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for joining me wherever you're listening or watching this podcast. That's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. And we're here for yet another one of my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community.

I am thrilled to welcome my next guest, a photographer, educator, and curator who focuses on black memory landscape and has been internationally recognized for her editorial work. Please welcome the fantastic Faith Couch. Welcome to the podcast.

Hi, Rob. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for coming on. Thank you for making the time. And, you know, generally, I like to start off this pod, the these conversations, because I try not to do the typical tell me about your work, and it's the sort of canned online thing, but I at least want to start off because it's important, I think, for for folks to be able to share their story in their own words. You know, we get the artist statements. We get the online bios.

But I think something's always kind of missing, right? So to kick things off, could you introduce yourself and share sort of the real story behind your work? What is your what is your work? Let let us let us fine folks know. I have a second, you know, question after that, but I at least wanna open it there.

I think you're making a great point. I am from North Carolina, and I've been in Baltimore, since 2015, so almost 10 years now. But North Carolina and my southern lineage plays a major role in who I am and the work that I create and definitely my outlook on life. I think no matter where I go in the world or travel to, southern culture is so interesting and complex and, layered and very rich. So in thinking about how that pertains to my work, storytelling is a big part of Southern culture through quilting, through music, folk music, blues, gospel music.

So all of those ways of being an art making making influence, how I feel and think about photography and moving image and visual culture. Photography for me was a way to express, myself, but also I felt that photography, unlike painting or drawing or sculpture, really was a way to concretize reality for people. And I'm thinking about the history of photography, whether it be from the Berlin Wall or especially what I'm thinking about right now is the civil rights movement is that people weren't really able to conceptualize, the realities that people were living. Although they did see pictures or images of drawings and paintings, photography really helped other people understand the realities that we are being faced with. So in that line of thinking, I said, well, photography is a way for me to help myself understand the world around me and also help other people understand the way that I'm living because there are so many different ways that black people live, so I felt that this was a key to me, telling my own story.

That's that's good. And those are some good distinctions, and and I think hearing it directly from the person, it's just like, well, this is what I think it is. This is what my work means and and so on. And and, you know, really being able to get that, I think it adds a bit more flair and a bit more texture to it. And I find often that, you know, you I listen to these different podcasts, you know, it's like listening to my competitors.

But listening to, you know, podcasts or attending a talk or what have you, and it's very sort of confined as far as, like, oh, we'll only talk about it in this way. And it's just like, I I think there's more layers to it. So so thank you for sharing that piece because, you know, who's from Baltimore anymore? Who who's from where they're from anymore? And it's just like being able to hear that, you know, the the South and and Southern culture is a big piece of your identity as a creator, as an artist, as a photographer, you know, and in the many spaces of who you are as a person.

So that's a really cool, cool distinction. So in thinking about a specific, like, example, what was something, maybe an early experience, that sparked a passion for creativity, for for art, for photography, for you? Like, you know, was it you you know, I I know we I know black folk. Right? We we have those, those those photo albums sometimes.

And it's like, man, I you know, that was the first time I saw something. I was like, damn, man. We're capturing memories here. Or, you know, maybe for me, like, being on a stage when I was young and learning that that may have been something I was preordained or picking up a comic when I was younger, wanted to be a comic book artist. Was there an experience that comes to mind for you?

Yes. I think I think there's a couple. I feel really grateful to have had parents that allowed me to be completely free, and they didn't impose any one way of being on me. So a lot of my earliest memories is me playing in the grass. My godfather was, a photographer.

And so my whole 1st day of kindergarten, I'm starting to finish what I'm eating in the morning, me, sitting at breakfast, going to school is documented. But I think my parents had always taken pictures because I'm one of the youngest siblings in my family, and I have a big family. So we have so many photo albums like you're saying, and I was just so intrigued, from the visual storytelling that was happening without my parents telling me exactly what was going on, I was able to kinda pick up timelines and figure out is this the eighties, is it the nineties, is it the early 2000s? And thinking about, you know, photos from the eighties and the nineties are being shot on film, and sometimes these beautiful blurred moments are happening. And maybe with the Polaroids, it's a mistake.

But all of these beautiful nuances and allowing me to see just color and shape and so much love and celebration in the photo, I mean, I was really mind blown. I was like, these these are beautiful moments, and I wanna share beautiful moments, for people.

Stop. Stop. And cap capturing those moments and being able to it's a time capsule. Right? And being able to go back, like, you know, every now and again.

I don't I don't have any, you know, photo albums in the crib, which might might be might say something. My history's lost. But I I I will say when I have those instances of, like, maybe pictures, I I think we use digital devices, and that's essentially our albums, and they can be lost and all of that stuff now unless it's on the cloud. But when I see something that's tangible, that's in my hand that documents a certain time, I can think of those moments that led up to it. Like probably the oldest picture I have of myself here is maybe 1 in in my bedroom.

It's, you know, it's on the nightstand. It's my mom holding me, and I see how big I am compared to her. I'm like a baby. I'm a toddler. I'm taking up half of this woman's body, and I'm like, yo, this is wild.

And being able to have that is sort of, I wouldn't remember it because it's so long ago, but it's I don't know. It's just like seeing the background and looking at all of these different things, and none of it exists anymore. That time has passed, but I I have that. I have that sort of moment right there, even though I don't remember it well. But to kind of think back on it, even though I don't remember it well.

But to kinda think back on it, it's like, wonder what was happening here? I wonder what she was thinking here? I wonder what she was doing? What was I doing? What did I have to eat that day as a child, you know?

And maybe that's just me, like, overthinking, like, a picture being taken. I don't know. But it's it's something about memory, you know?

Oh, you're right. And it it transports us to a different place and time. And I think what you're saying is so important that memory and nostalgia and our longing for perhaps a place we haven't been or, you know, being able to look at pictures and have this feeling that feels very visceral to us because someone we know is in the picture. I love being able to look at pictures and it feels like I could smell what was in the room or what the temperature is or, you know, wondering about the texture of the couch. And I think that's what makes, art beautiful is that we bring ourselves to it and meets us where we're at and we're able to have this really dynamic relationship with it, to create a beautiful new memory or perhaps that rekindles an old one, you know.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes I look at memories. Luckily, I'm bald now. Right? So I can kinda but I look at some memories when I had a hair.

I was like, yo. Why did I have pigtails here? What was I doing as an adult? Or, again, my mom, this this is her, you know. A lot of the pictures are hers, and I feel like she has all the albums.

Right? It it I remember one where so when I was an adult. Right? I had this period where I would just put mustache wax, no beard, just mustache wax in my mustache, and I would curl it, and I would look like, you know, Dick Dastardly, some, like, movie cartoon villain, what have you. And I had almost a process with my hair.

We're getting deep into real Rob's territory, like and part of that comes from my mom used to tell me she would put olive oil on my hair when I was a baby and would have it straight but apart to the side, and I was doing that as an adult.

I love this. I love that. I love, you know, little hipster mustache. I would pay to see that Rob. I would.

Those pictures are burnt? Those pictures do not? So so in that vein of sort of capturing memory, let's let's talk a bit about, like, some of your work, some of those moments within your your work. You you know, I see, sort of, you know, capturing memory, capturing black memory, these these sort of, like, everyday moments. So speak a bit about, sort of, what your work is about, and sort of when you're capturing moments, when you're capturing, like, image visually, how are you choosing those moments to immortalize?

And, you know, what impact are you looking for it to leave on folks, if at all?

Sure. Where do I begin? I think, like I I was saying earlier, the impact from being in the South and storytelling, I think a lot about folklore. I think a lot about magic. I think a lot about tall tales, but I also think about the mundane and these very everyday moments that we get.

So in the newest body of work I have, one piece is called the theater and the other piece is called the party. And I've really just set my intention around creating scenes that celebrate the mundane, and instead of the focus being on 1 or 2 subjects, it's an array of reoccurring characters within this one universe. So for a couple of years now, you could kinda see in my work that I'm using some of the same people and we get new faces, and that's really important to me to this world building of kind of like this cast that I'm making. So with my work, I am seeking to fill the narrative hole of black existence, right? I'm fascinated with the way that pictures can kind of create these new modes of imagining I've watched a lot of movies, I've consumed a lot of images, I've been through a lot of magazines and books and one thing that I've always been interested in is the coming of age, right, of young adult hood and what is represented by that through media.

And one thing that I came, to think about is going to the movies. So I said, you know, when have I seen black people in the movie theaters? So, of course, I think, thriller, that's one iconic moment we can all think about, and then scary movie. And both of them are, you know, kinda fantasy based and not really super rooted in a realistic moment. So what I was interested in is having black people and people of color occupy this movie theater, with the classic red seats, with, you know, the Pepsi Cola, with the butter popcorn, and just have them seat it and take a bunch of photos, have a bunch of stills, and create this moving image piece around it because I felt that this work can offer an alternative reality.

And I'm interested in making pictures that are time agnostic because it affirms the possibility of their existence for a place where they would have offered, you know, positive affirmation to whatever that respective period is. So when you look at it, you're like, is this the seventies, is this the eighties, is this the nineties, is this the 2000s? And what's really important to me in being able to curate the space is that we can't tell, right? There are no cell phones. The hair is kinda difficult to able to for other black kids who have not had the privilege of perhaps reading all the books, watching all the movies that I have had, having all the experiences to know that blackness is not this monolith or just one way of being, right?

Because I think that's something that was perpetuated onto me from a young age is that when I was watching television and, you know, late nineties, early 2000s, we have this rigid binary of like, it's either The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and The the Hood. And it's like, okay, and now we're kind of back in this era where a lot of things

are just Boyz N

the Hood, or, you know, you know, for the most part we see a lot of imagery of black people that is negative. So I'm thinking, how can we make images, how can I make images of black people doing the mundane? So attending a birthday party with multi generational, it's a multi generational birthday party because that's something we've all been a part of. And although it's super mundane and regular, it's still an important image because it honors, the legacy that we're a part of, our history that we're a part of, the people that come before us and also that future generations know that this is something that is still occurring although it may not be emphasized and we might not see it, I want them to be able to walk into the gallery or museum and know that this is a possibility and to be able to reimagine that for themselves or for their families.

Thank you. It it I I think it also there's this thing of, like, normalizing it, like, we're regular we're regular people, and and and, again, when I think of images and I I look at the ones that I'm captured by, like, you see some striking ones. Like, I I want to see this really, like, dope. Dope. Dope.

I'm blanking on the dude's name. I went to Detroit to see it, like, last year, and it was, like, 3 or 400, like, images of this dude's, like, 10 years. And I think in this part of London and capturing it is just like there's everything from, like, everyday life sort of stuff. And then, you know, it's sort of this cross section of time from, like, the sixties into the seventies. So it's a lot of things happening from a fashion standpoint and a way people presented themselves, but there's a few of those moments where it's like, how did this person jump like this?

You caught this this sort of image right here. This is really cool. But then also, it's just like regular dudes at a pool hall just kinda kicking it and maxing it, and it's it's capturing life at this sort of moment in time, and it normalizes it. It's not this sort of idea of, like, yeah. We were all super Negroes for a while.

It's just, like, people. You know? And when I look back and see pictures of my family, my parents and so on, or even, you know, other relatives that I may not have known as well, it makes you see them in a different way when it's something that's kinda normal, like something as simple as someone like washing clothes. And, you know, I I currently have your website up, so, also, I'm looking at these images as we're we're talking. So that's that's really cool as well to get that that texture from you as I'm, like, looking at the image.

It's almost like, almost like director like commentary a little bit.

Oh my god. Thank you for looking. I I always feel so bashful and so honored when people like my work and really get a chance to sit with it. I feel like I love collaborating. Collaboration is really a crucial part of art making for me because if we are to look at the history of photography, it's been a very voyeuristic history where a lot of times, people of color, black people have not been able to, steer and direct their own narrative.

And they are depicted in a way that is subject or they get objectified. Right? So when I make work with people, I always wanna be able to talk to the people, collaborate with them, kinda get their consent for it, not just that they're sitting in a picture that they wanna be a part of this project, they see the vision and that this is something that resonates with them too. So even with my family and my friends, that's a really big part of it for me.

And I think a lot of times, we are those and and how if if we're doing it right, in in my head at least, we we don't steer too far away from those things that are, like, almost right there at the surface. You know, the people that we're around, sort of the the energy that we're consuming and the experiences that we have, they they bubble up. You know, there are times where people may not think I'm from Baltimore for sake of argument. Right? And then that too flows out, and they're like, yeah, you're from Baltimore.

I was like, I can't hide it, you know, or there's a reference, you know, and it's and it's not, like, a performative thing. There's a reference that it just comes out because it's it's naturally there, it's just like, that's that's just who you are. So when and and this is this is my take, and I don't really throw this out there too much. But in even in the, you know, even in the the image that you sent that I'm gonna use for the the the headshot and things of that nature, I I see almost a southern gothic energy. Maybe it's in the filter, maybe it's in the color correction or what have you, but I see this southern gothic thing, and I'm like, is this is are we on like a horror movie?

What are we doing here? It has that energy right there. It's like, alright. It's a little little spooky here. Maybe I'm maybe I'm misreading it, but that's that's kinda kinda what I was taking from it.

So I'm seeing that Southern Gothic thing there for some reason.

That is fun. I like that. I like that. I feel like, you know what, and it I I think that's also probably because a lot of images and moving images work, you know, like videos and, movies and then shows right now have this, like, southern, historical, you know, vintage lens that's a little bit obvious, like, have you seen the show, Them? Or Yeah.

And that's that. Right? So it's, like, we're getting these these stories where black people are taking over the narrative. But then it's a little bit obvious. It's a little bit scary.

It's a little bit of mystery in that, and I'm open to that.

Well, thank you. Thank you. And, yeah. I've seen seen both seasons. We we should trade notes.

We should trade notes afterwards. We will have to talk about it. So having background and experience, like, deep experience in in both, sort of, the fine art and editorial photography, like, speak on sort of those settings. As you you've also mentioned collaboration really being big as well for you. Mention, you know, speak on sort of, like, you know, how maybe working in one area, then in sort of the editorial side, the fine art side, how do those settings kind of like impact or shape your your approach creatively?

I've been really grateful for the opportunities that I've had to work, you know, for the New Yorker, the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Bogan, things like that. It's very different because your time frame is super limited. It might typically be your first time interacting with the people or persons that you have to photograph. And so that makes for a very different experience. The time limitation and also, you know, you're working with people who have a different outlook on what photography is.

So kinda explaining to them that there is an artistic side as well as a very technical side. So the pressure of having to really create this relationship under a time frame is definitely very different than the way, that I typically work for my own fine art work. But it definitely has helped me think on my feet and think quickly about the environment because, you know, anything and everything could go wrong. It could be that you have an even smaller time frame. It could be that you wanted to shoot outside and it's raining or somebody doesn't show up and you have to reshoot.

So I think each opportunity has been a very beautiful moment for me to challenge myself and what I think I know and to perhaps take a different approach in image making or collaboration with, I think, one of my favorite editorial works with Wes Moore. We didn't have a lot of time, but I was able to speak to him and ask him how did he want to be depicted. I said, I know you get your photo taken all the time, but right now this is you and I and we're gonna collaborate. You know, you're the 2nd black governor of the United States. This is a big deal.

So how would you want to be seen? And he said, I wanna be seen as optimistic. I said, no problem. We went outdoors. He had on this really beautiful blue suit.

The grass and greenery really did their job. They showed out. And we were able to make something that I thought was really special and really magical. So taking the skills from what I learned with my friends and greater community and being able to apply it with a total stranger stranger and create that warmth and create a new environment so that we could have a photograph that, you know, looks comfortable, looks beautiful, hits all the technical notes, but it's really authentic. And I think that is what's so important for my work is that I wanna make real photographs that capture an authentic moment.

And I think you can always see in photos the real body language of how people really feel about where they're at at that time and who they're with, and that comes through. So I can't cheat that.

That's that's great. And, you know, in in thinking about sort of that capturing those authentic things, and then, actually, let me step back and and thinking about this, like, in in doing this, we're having this conversation. There is a collaborative component here. You're you're coming on. I did a little prep.

We we chatted a few times before getting to this, but my my goal is to have a conversation and, you know, have the person feel as comfortable as as they're they're equipped to and to talk about their work, but talk about how they go about their work, their thinking, and all of that stuff that goes into it. But it's very much collaborative. Like, if I came in with weird energy, like, yeah, let's get to it, Faith. We gotta knock this out. It's the wrong energy.

Or if if you came in with, like, a energy that just wasn't really sort of open and was kinda, like, closed off, and it's like, I've I've answered these questions before. I don't wanna do the same thing again. And at times, when I'm encountering something that feels like it's like that, like, I want to get the interview out, I treat it like journalism, I apply it like that. I asked the question, like, what's a win for you in this the And the way that you were describing that interaction with with governor Moore was was very it's very similar in that that way. It's just like, how you wanna come off in this?

Like, what is, you know, what is the the the goal that you're looking for? And, you know, I find that if you would ask me that same question, I'm like, yo, I'm gonna look like I'm balling. However you're gonna make that, I need to look like I'm ballin'. You know what I mean?

I love that.

So yeah. No. No. That's that's really that's really dope. That's really good.

And it's good to hear that too, that it is very much collaborative. And, you know, one of the other things I'll I'll chime in with is in in doing this and having these opportunities where I might do an interview and I'm working with someone. Right? And, you know, like a like a magazine or or something like that. That is it is something about those instances that make you kinda stretch those boundaries a little bit and use those problem solving skills.

But when it's a bit more control like, we're in a control setting for the most part, you know. We're meeting at this time. I'm using this interface and where we should record. And even if it was a sort of in person setup, there's sort of a bit more control. But as a person that's done podcasts on boats, you know, that's done podcasts in, like, uncontrolled environments, you're really thinking chiefly, how do I capture the thing that I'm going for?

Whether it'd be for you, maybe capturing the images and capturing the person at their best, or for me, capturing the conversation and, you know, keeping my piece and cues together really makes you stretch different parts of your muscle.

It does.

And I think that the thing that's really, really dope about it is when you come back to it, and and this is a question I ask people, but I definitely wanna get your take on this. When you have those instances where you stretched it a little bit, you know, it's like fitness, you know, it's like, alright, I can lift a little bit more. I can stretch a little bit further, a little bit more range of motion. When has there been an instance where you really had to stretch that creative muscle for yourself? And like, you know, the when you've arrived back at, let's say, a similar situation, like, damn, this is usually a roadblock because it's usually a challenge After you've encountered it, you know, you've kind of gotten past it.

When you re encounter it, is it more like light work now? Is it like, no, I've been here before. This is a little bit easier now. Talk about, like, sort of facing those those those challenges that present themselves, whether in collaboration, whether in some of the technical limitations there may be at times. Talk a bit about that.

I think as I grow, I get new problems. Now they might be similar to each other, but they're definitely different because of the stakes or the circumstances. But the first time that I felt in my career that I really was faced with a challenge, was probably my senior year at MICA, and I had thesis. And for my idea for thesis, it was to build out a new set. I said, I want this to be kinda interactive.

I want there to be incense. I wanna make a little bookshelf that has, you know, black books, Malcolm x, Stokely Carmichael, maybe some poetry, some, bell hooks, some Audre Lorde, and then a little photograph. And I was building out this set because I wanted to transform one of the walls in our thesis building into, like, you know, when we go into our grandmother's house or older houses from the seventies, you have that panel wall of, that's made out of hardwood. That's super old school. Right?

We got that wood panel wall. And so I said, I wanna recreate that, and I'm gonna put some work on top of that so that we get the feel that we're kinda in a grandmother's basement. And at that time, I was studying indexes and symbolism, and a lot of people were like, you know, we don't know what you're doing. That was the feedback I got. I don't know what you're doing.

You're kinda pushing the time limit. You're not gonna finish. That's what some of my professors told me, you know, this is probably not the way to go about things, but I had a vision and I had to have faith in myself because other people were not in support of, you know, my vision. They didn't think that I could do it. They didn't think that I was gonna finish on time.

And I almost didn't, but almost is not quite, you know. I I finished and, on the first day that that the show opened, a black woman came in and she said, when I was a child, I wasn't allowed in this building. And I came in this building and to see that there are black people on this wall has brought me to tears. Yeah. And in that moment, I was like, you know, this is why I do what I do.

This is why I make the work that I make. Of course, I make work because I have to. I'm an artist and I don't it's like eating or sleeping or breathing. But for people to have these very, sentimental reactions to my work and that they are transported and able to connect with themselves or it's a healing moment or like we were saying earlier that it helps them reimagine the future. That's a big part of, what keeps me going is my ability to be able to reach multiple people despite their age or class or religion or creed that my photographs speak to them.

So I felt like, man, was this challenging? Absolutely. Was this one of the hardest things I've had to do virtually by myself? Yes. But the reward is so sweet and great.

And even if it's one person, you know, that's worth it to me. So I think fast forward to now, as I am about to embark on a new journey academically and creatively, I'm finding myself, not having an artist block, but really trying to sit down and figure out how do I continue to create, at my own pace, still have integrity and not really worry about the other things. And I think the other things in this day and age is, like, if you're getting a lot of likes or, if people are responding a certain way on social media. And that's something that is definitely hard because, you know, as a photographer, you're you're thinking about that on Instagram and Instagram culture, but it also grounds me to know that my work exists offline. It's traveling in galleries.

It exists in museums where real people in real time are able to have face to face connection with the physical piece of work. So, I'm in the process of sketching, but I'm definitely at a challenging point in in my career again. And it's nothing that I don't think I can overcome, but it just reminds me that I have to sit a little bit still and and remember, why I'm making work and who I am and really, listen to what's speaking to me as an artist right now.

Yeah. Classic underachiever there, Faith. Oh, just and and which which and it's it's a good place to be segueing into this question because it kinda extends and expands on, you know, sort of what what what you're talking about there. So so having transitioned, you know, from like Micah, you know, having the, you know shout out to you on this one. The, the 30 under 30 through Forbes Art and Style, and, you know, going to Yale.

That's that the embargment you're talking about there, coming up very, very soon. Can you, you know, speak on how and and I think you're touching on it a bit, but how any of these experiences or other experiences along the way have kinda helped shape your understanding and where you fit, and your perspective, really, on sort of the art world, whether it be photography. I see that you also have a curatorial background as well, So so speak a bit on that, like, those experiences, those those touch points, and how it's impacted your perspective around, like, art? Because I I like what you're touching on as far as the that sort of like thing, but, you know, please.

When I moved to Baltimore, I didn't know a single soul, and I moved on the not on a whim, but I knew I had to go to art school and I wanted to go to one of the best

art schools.

And when I moved up here, I found community in a way that I hadn't before, and I was 17 when I got here. And it forced me outside of my comfort zone and, of course, outside of the MICA bubble. But at MICA, I had a wonderful mentor, Paulette Visay Colors, who's now at the International Center of Photography. I met Teresa Cremati, which really she really influenced, my work and thinking about painting and how painting related to photography and, this group called Balti Girls put on these DIY shows. So I felt so, loved by the by the community and really finding my footing as a teenager and young adult.

So many community members were very supportive of my growth, and they saw who I was and the type of talent I have had, and they really supported me. And at MICA, I have really wonderful professors. And for me, one of my most memorable professors, Ian Borland, I took graduate class with him and that class completely blew my mind. The things that we were reading or theory and Marxist theory and theory as it relates to the poetics of space and, things that you wouldn't traditionally think of when you think about art. And it just showed me how everything is really connected and enmeshed in each other.

And so, I think being in Baltimore at such a unique time with so many unique people really shaped my understanding for community. And going forward, I feel like what is so important wherever we go or whatever we do is to have, and to continue to be close to community. And the when I say community, I mean people not just in proximity to us, but people who can see us for who we are, who can uplift us, where things are synergetic and reciprocal, and, there's true friendship and love and support that there. Because a lot of times I think we use community as a way, you know, we say community and it just means people in proximity to us. I want to be very specific in how I'm defining that term.

So going forward, and as I'm moving out of Baltimore, again, I am looking forward to expanding and adding on to my community and being a part of new communities, so that I can be uplifted and continue to uplift those around me.

That's great. And and and we had a version of this conversation sort of, off mic, so it's really it's really great. And I think we we we share that, you know, and and I got one more real question after after this, but, yeah, it's it's one of those things where, you know, you you have a sort of idea, you have an inclination, and you have those moments. You know, at times, I think you're right. I think you're very right where this notion of community and sort of what that looks like and what friendship and all of that looks like within these sort of pockets.

I think sometimes it's it's a little odd, but when you find it, it it feels great. It's like, oh, these these people get it. And the thing that I aim for and I shoot for in doing this is is trying to to be that. Never it always doesn't. It doesn't always come out the way that people think it should or they may be accustomed to.

Hey. Show up for this and and and pay this or or buy this and so on. But I think it it's a way of, like, how do we, you know, show we're supportive and we're we're loving and we're we're around and we're a part of it and and doing right by it. And that's what I aspire for and that's what I shoot for, and I think that's what a lot of people that when I'm having a conversation with someone and as soon as they start start saying things in that vein, I'm like, yeah, they get it. They they they're around there.

I'm glad to have that conversation. And it's it's a lot of folks that I've had that sort of conversation and it comes out and I'm just I'm inside fist pumping. Right? And then there are some instances where you're like, wow. You I wish you didn't say that.

It's like, man, I'm just here for the bread. I don't really care about community. And I and I hear that from folks sometimes. Not not not often, but enough that it it makes me kinda change and kinda like the work a little bit less and like the arc a little bit less. And I don't know, when it's, like, sort of the community thing and you're you're getting something out of it, you're giving back to it, however that might look, that's the thing that really really makes me, makes me happy and makes me proud to, I guess, be covered in or be a part of it, I suppose.

So, Citi, yeah. I got one last real question here for you. So creativity often involve it often involves revealing layers of complexity. You know, it's not what it appears on the surface sometimes. Right?

Do you believe that there is a common yet seldom discussed trait that, you know, artists and creative individuals have? If so, what would that trait be?

I feel like true creativity is synonymous with honesty, and you don't have to like it. And that's the thing about the truth. It's, like, I think some of the best artists show up so brutally honest and truthful that obviously it's super polarized and we can think about any mainstream artists or, you know, rapper, singer, whatever. But what makes their work so intriguing and beautiful and good is that they are unapologetically truthful. And that's something that, I really always aim to embody is I do wear my heart on my sleeve with my work.

My work, a lot of it has to do with the history of many lovers that I have or friendships that I had or moments in time with my family or constructing spaces. And a part of that is really me, you know, laying it all out for people and laying myself out to be seen and to be vulnerable because that is my truth and my work exists in spaces that I may not go to. But it has to be able to speak for me and for itself. And so I feel very comfortable with my truth existing in spaces that I can't get to, whether people will like it or not or but I know it's gonna resonate in some way, shape, or form. I know it's gonna make people think.

I know it's going to make them wonder about maybe someone they loved or currently love or will love or the possibilities that could be for them with their friends or family members. So I definitely think that true creativity is synonymous with truth telling of your own truth, right? Because that's all that we can really share is our own, existence and how we are showing up, how we are present. And I think, that's what I wanna continue to do.

Great. I'm always looking for the truth in this art. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And last comment I'll have, and then and thank you for sharing. That's a really, really good good point and a good way to kinda close out this portion of the pod. You know, I've been really harping on this recently, with folks that know me that actually can have a conversation with me. You know, it's like, you know, you have, like, tiers of people. It's like, you have some people who are, like, you have my phone number, you know, sort of connection, like, in chitchat with you.

Like, what you think of this? And you have other people, like, I see you on Instagram. And I've been really banging on about sort of and it may be sort of the brain ride conversation, like, that's that's, like, kind of the online talk. It's, like, online, like, criticism. Like, if I'm I like movies.

Right? And I'm looking for, like, is this movie good? Is it bad? Why is it good? Why is it bad?

And I don't really hear anything that feels like criticism. It's like you have folks who aren't having an opinion. I'm putting their flag in the ground. They're kinda trying to say the thing that either is gonna get the likes or the clicks and so on, but it feels artificial, and I and I'm looking for and begging almost for that truth. Make me agree with you or make me disagree with you, but have something that I can actually latch on to, and I find that people go safe and they're not being vulnerable.

They're not being being risky in it. And there are some folks who they that just turns into what their existence is, and it just feels like like takes and it bleeds into maybe what the creative sensibilities are. But I know it happens a lot when it comes to, sort of, criticism, and I find, like, what I'm looking for, specifically when I'm looking, like, pop culture, I'm looking for, like, a movie or something to watch. I'm, like, yo, is it good, you know, from the the sources you're supposed to get it from? I gotta find Letterboxd.

I gotta go to Reddit to find some Makes sense. Like like, truth when it when it comes to a thing. I'm like, yo, this movie right here, it looks interesting to me. I have pretty good taste, but I wanna see what some people think, And it's just buzzwords and no soul. It's lifeless buzzwords, and it's so weird to me at times, And I look for that truth.

So when you're driving that truth and and that that's it's something there that you're really poking at that I think makes a lot of sense. So I want to move into the last portion of the podcast, the rapid fire portion. As you've been talking and as I've been listening, I've been adding, more more questions to the rapid fire portion. And as I tell everyone, don't overthink these. These these are just questions.

But, you know, we'll we'll start off with this one. So folklore, Is there do you have a favorite piece of folklore, like a piece of folklore that you're really into? Like, you like this particular lore over that, like, you know, get Southern, you mentioned the thing, you mentioned the sort of like that that playing a role and having an interest, having an interest level in that. Is there a piece of folklore that you're like, I really like this story?

Yes. When I was young, I had this I had this DVD of, like, American folklore classics, and it was an animation, and John Henry was one of them. And so it was like this really beautiful animation. And, of course, you know, the story of John Henry is that somehow he is a super Negro that he beats the train. Right?

But of course, no one can outwork a train or machine and he ends up passing away. But that is one that really stuck with me for a long time. And also just thinking about growing up with like Anansi the Spider and ASAP's Fable. And I was always read to probably, you know, honestly, up until the time I was 12 or 13, I would love for my parents to read me stories. So, that was always ingrained in the back of my head, but John Henry has always stuck with me forever.

It's a good one. I like that I like that one, actually. It's like, yeah, man. Industrial Revolution. Get it out of here.

Yeah. Let's see. So outside of, sort of, photography and in that realm, and and we talked about this. I'm queuing this one up for you. Do you have, like, a hobby or interest outside of photography that's, like, pretty creative?

Yeah. I like all art forms, but cooking is something I really love. I love music, so I collect a lot of albums. But cooking is probably almost up there with photography. I just love cooking.

I also like to crochet. I've taken up, litho cut recently, and that's been fun. Anything creative? Oh, fun fact is I used to play the saxophone. So

It's good. It's good. As as a as a person that grabs multiple hobbies and multiple side missions, if you will, creatively. Yeah. You know, just just underachiever.

Just, you

know, not No biggie. Not a

big thing. Just small, like work. Well, in that vein of food, because we definitely had a conversation about this, I definitely wanna get your your sense on this. I'm putting you on a spot on this for next one. I think I got 2 left.

This this next one is gonna be one of them ones. Top 3 soul food side dishes. Go.

Oh, Lord.

I know. Right? It is it's a tough one.

Cornbread's up there for me.

Okay.

Collard greens. It's just that the collard greens cabbage popped in my mind. So can I give collard slash greens?

Yes. You can you can have that one. Yes.

Okay. Greens and then, a third one. This is, see, this is gonna be tricky because I'm thinking about southern food and I have to think, is this soul food? Chicken and dumplings. Right.

This is,

We're going sides though.

Oh, sides. Okay. You're right. What's another good side? Aye.

Okay. Now this is also real country, but a a type of bean. I need a black eyed peas, a navy bean, or a lima bean, to be honest. I know. I know.

That is so south. Here's here's the thing that's really dope about the way you answered that. Firstly, you you hit multiple areas. You got like the fiber in that mix, you got like, you know, some vegetables here, like, it's not just mac and cheese with the yams together. It's like that's one, it's like that's cheating.

And I like that you said cornbread. I've been asking people this question recently a lot, and I noticed that people leave out bread, and I love cornbread.

Me too. Me too. It's a must have, you know, because I'm also thinking, like, during the summer, my mom always made so many beans. Like that's what we would eat in the summer is like different types of beans and maybe a sweet potato, but we never really had yams unless it was like Christmas or Thanksgiving. But we did have sweet potatoes year round.

We just had to they would go in the oven. They would come out hot, put a little pot of butter on them. So definitely cornbread, those are my 3 sides that I would be like, I could make a meal out of this, even if we didn't have a main

dish. Like like southern girl dinner or what?

Yes. Southern. Oh, I need to make that.

It's it's gonna be just just trying to help. Just trying to help.

Love that.

And, I mean, you have, like, almost it's it's your real account, but it's almost like you have a burner account of meals that either you've had or you've made. And I'm sitting here and I'm like, alright, you're kinda cheating here. You got, like, the photography background, and it's like, oh, yeah. You know, I you don't come from a culinary household. It's like, alright.

Duality. Right?

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. A little jealous of it too. So this is the last real question. The last real question goes a little bit like this.

So in you know, you you mentioned, you know, you've been up in Baltimore for almost, you know, 10 years, what have you, and and coming up here as a teenager, which is one of those things. It's it's a challenge. And being able to adapt and define community and then really thrive and so on, that's remarkable. Thank you. Yeah.

Totally. So I asked the question, and it's the more so the con con the concept of home. How do you make wherever you go feel like home? Had to go introspective right there.

I think being grounded is a really crucial element, because I think when we travel or people are like, oh, I need a vacation. I need to get out of town or I need to move to a new spot. You are still taking yourself with you to that place. So it's like, you're not going to state youth. So I think what is important for me in being grounded in being in a new space is really, like we said earlier, it goes back to being kind of brutally honest.

And when I moved here, I had to have constant introspection. I remember I was actually reading Being and Nothingness when I got here, And that book, 1 chapter, is about bad faith and what that really looks like and how people operate in bad faith all the time. So I was really trying to get into this space where I was, like, it's really just it's not like it's me against the world because I have community and support, but if I'm really gonna do this, I have to be one with myself in a way that I haven't maybe before because I've had so much cushioning and knew where I was at, and I'm in my hometown and I have my family there. And so I think a big part of that is really being grounded and always trying to be introspective. And, of course, you're gonna make mistakes, and that's a part of life.

And I don't think anyone should beat themselves up about that. I think for me, it's about really understanding that the journey is really long and that I've been different people at different points and I can continue to expand and contract and flow and be different versions of myself. And I don't have to hold myself to any one version that I once was. And I'm not a slave to my past, and that things are really in flow. And that's how I try to really think about grounding myself and remembering, that home is in my body.

And I have to be able to feel in my body and really check-in with myself every day. Because no matter what you cope with, whether it's eating or smoking or drinking, you're still gonna have to come to terms at some point or later. Right? So why not now be, why not the later be now. Right?

So that you can continue. So I think learning very quickly that home is in my body and not a specific place has been a lesson that I'm continually learning.

Big shout out to John Paul Sauter. Yeah. So yeah. Thank you for that, and, thank you for being a part of this this podcast. This has been, wonderful.

So in that, there are 2 things I would like to do as we close out here. 1, wanna thank you for coming on, making some time, spending some time with me. And Thank you. Yeah. And and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can check you out, social media, website, Any shameless plug that you have in mind, the floor is yours.

Awesome.

Thank you guys for listening. You can check out my work at faithpouch dotcom. I've also just launched a production company called Real Love Productions, and my Instagram is sharing a bit of

her journey with us here today and for Faith Couch sharing a bit of her journey with us here today. And for Faith Couch, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just gotta look for it.