Welcome to The Truth in His Heart, your source for conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee, and I am excited to have you joining us today. My next guest this is gonna be a treat. My next guest is a Baltimore based artist known for her passion for murals and large scale work where she creates art that transforms spaces with purpose and context. Please welcome, Kait Klusewitz.
Rob Lee:Welcome to the podcast.
Kait Klusewitz:Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Rob Lee:Thank you for coming on. Thank you for spending some time, with me this afternoon. And, you know, 1, you know, following your work for a bit on the IG and, you know, seeing it around the city a bit, you know, I definitely wanted to, reach out and connect. I'm glad that we're doing this now.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. No. I mean, well, you know, because we chatted about it a little bit, but I had some major impostor syndrome when you first reached out to me. I was like, did he did he need to send this to me? Is he sure?
Kait Klusewitz:And, you know, you were, and I appreciated that, but I'm always very curious to know, how people find my work, and I'm assuming it's probably just because of the company that I keep. I know that you've interviewed a lot of my artist friends, but
Rob Lee:yeah. It's it's a bit of that and just, you know, sort of, you know, I do the the online thing, and I always got my ear and eye to the street. So You're with us. Of it. Yeah.
Rob Lee:The art the art of noticing, I suppose. Right.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. No. Well, it's very cool. I'm very excited to be here. A little bit of impostor syndrome that I'm shoving deep down.
Rob Lee:I mean, I deal with it every episode. It's just like, am I good at this?
Kait Klusewitz:You are. I can't I'll just tell you. You are. You're good.
Rob Lee:Well, thank you. Thank you. So, you know, as is the custom, I like to give folks the opportunity to to introduce themselves in their own words. That's the the one of the key things in this podcast, you know, of authenticity. Like, you know, we have these these different weighty things that are in these artist bios and online, and it's just like, I don't know if that's how I describe myself.
Rob Lee:So I like to lend that opportunity to the guest to come on. So if you could introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your work.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Absolutely. And I I think that is such a cool idea, and that is, like, the hardest thing ever to do, though. I find that the hardest thing ever to do. It's like that.
Kait Klusewitz:It's hard to be objective about yourself, but, I'll tell you the things I know. So I I'm Kate. I've, I've, been in Baltimore for going on 14 years. Baltimore has been at the the the start of my artistic journey, so really my my KK designs was born here in Baltimore, so it is a Baltimore business. I mostly do murals, although I am open to and often do other kinds of large scale art like window splashes and even sometimes chalkboards, but, my my thing and what I really love to do is murals because I love to work with architecture and space and environment.
Rob Lee:It's great. It's great. And, again, you know, like I've said, I've seen a few things, you know, like, the Waverly Commons one comes to mind. I'm on your website right now, and I was like, I go through Waverly.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that one I did with, an artist that I work with a whole bunch, Caroline Lampinen of Okay Everything. That was a really fun one to do.
Rob Lee:Nice. Nice. So you you said Baltimore for bow over a decade, you know, about about 14 years. So where where else have you you lived? Because I feel like you've you've moved around a bit, and, obviously, when when someone moves around, there are different experiences, a different influence that kinda like show up.
Rob Lee:So could you speak on, like, some of the places that you you've lived and maybe some influences along the way that have maybe influenced your your take on how you approach projects?
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Absolutely. So, I mean, I I could list for you all of the places that I've lived, but so I I was, not born in Germany, but we moved there when I was a baby, and I lived there till I was around, 5 or 6. So those are, you know, I was very young but I often find that the and I mean it's when you're that age everything is very sensory. So right?
Kait Klusewitz:Like visual smells. So even though I don't like I don't have a lot of, like, cognitive memory of that place, it definitely kind of seems to fill the, like, very instinctive, like, I don't know, like, my earliest memories are of of, you know, some of the things that I saw there. And then let's see. We were in the back to the US then after that in a couple of different places, Pennsylvania, actually, Maryland. Coincidentally, we lived down in Pasadena for just a couple of years.
Kait Klusewitz:Had nothing to do with me coming back later in life, but that was kind of a weird little blast from the past moving back to Baltimore. But then we lived in Australia for a really long time. And when we lived there, we moved there when I was, 12, and we lived there until I was 18 or 19. So at that point in my life, that had been the longest I'd ever been in one place at a time. So that really felt like home.
Kait Klusewitz:That was really hard to leave. But anyway, back to the US, Hawaii, and then New York City, and now Baltimore. But in terms of how I feel like it has influenced my work, I feel like there's there's some ways that I feel like in a more cursory and and, like, I don't know, in a more cursory way that I feel like it has influenced the, like, the style or the way that I paint, and then and then that it's more little things like for example, I was, approached by a German restaurant owner at one point to come and do some work in his restaurant. Didn't happen, but I had some really cool ideas right off the bat. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:Like, the more diverse your experiences are, the more you have to draw from and the more, you know, maybe ideas you get right off the bat. But I feel like beyond that, I've I'm I'm so grateful for having had the privilege of having lived in a lot of different places because I feel like what that did is it really allowed me to learn and assimilate to a lot of different perspectives and ways of thinking, and ways of problem solving, and, you know, ways of interacting with the world, and, and thinking about the rest of the world. Boy is that, you know, try not living in the United States, and and learning how other people think about the rest of the world. It's it's, you know, so I think having some different perspectives has maybe shaped the way that I approach my own kinds of problem solving, or even the people that I like to work with. I find that I am definitely drawn to and love working with people who are also pretty open minded.
Kait Klusewitz:Sure. You know? So I am not in a super direct way. I wish I had some cool answer for that. Like, I incorporate aboriginal King Chime mysticism into and I mean, I just don't, but I think, you know, it's influenced me in the same way that I think all of your growing experiences do, you know, and in in the ways that the people that you know shape you.
Kait Klusewitz:And I I think for me, I'm just very lucky that that background is pretty diverse.
Rob Lee:Thank you. And I think this this next question aligns with it, a little bit. I'm gonna skip ahead a bit because I always, you know, send a question beforehand. Professionality.
Kait Klusewitz:Yep.
Rob Lee:I I read that you have, like, a deep love for all things retro, and there was a period, you know, that I keep kinda playing with. Retro, like you know, he's not thinking about the eighties. The eighties is, like, 40 years ago, and I'm like, man, I could just do my whole lifestyle as like a cyberpunk and just do that. I just think about it. Right?
Rob Lee:And so sort of this this predilection towards, all things retro, how does that show up and influence your work? And are there specific areas or or styles that you you keep coming back? Like, you see something that's a retro font, for instance, or something that is a a technique or even a a color palette, you know, like, yeah, that's from a certain era. That's from the 50. That's from the 60.
Rob Lee:That's from the eighties, what have you. So so speak on that a bit because that really stuck out because I was just like, alright, sister.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, first of all, I guess, I don't know why you had to say that the eighties was 40 years ago. That kinda sucks that you said that.
Kait Klusewitz:Well I try not to think about that. I was born in the eighties. But no. I so yeah. I I think that, there's a few, periods of time where stylistically and I I mean, I don't think this this doesn't come from anything deeper.
Kait Klusewitz:It's just like we all have our our vibes that we gravitate to. Right? And for me, there is a few different chunks that show up in my work a lot. If we go way back, I really love art nouveau, so I I tend to really love working with big flowing shapes, and I think that that kind of follows through. I really love Art Deco which, you know, was kind of more like, you know, twenties, but I I love, just kind of the the bold geometry of it.
Kait Klusewitz:But then I feel like that all kind of marries together. Deco showing up later in, like, the sixties seventies which is, like, that is, like, that is that is the era that has my heart visually. I don't know if you can see some of my like my palette and my stripes behind me, yeah I I, I love I just love the vibe, I love the music, you you talked about font which I love because I work with lettering a whole lot, I don't know something about the big juicy shapes, and, so I I love, like, retro stripe motifs. What I'm doing right or where I'm where I'm at right now is I love painting big retro stripes. I got to do a restaurant that was just all these big retro stripes, and it was a dream job.
Kait Klusewitz:But as a muralist, I'm like, you can only paint big stripes so many places for so many people. So what I'm trying to do right now is figure out a way to kind of take these color palettes and these shapes and these kind of, I don't know, some of the aesthetic and and do something a little bit more with it that can be a little more diverse.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Because a lot of times we we are our experiences whether it be I I I do this. Right? I I I find, like, sometimes stuff that is more recent, you know, it it inserts itself into your process, whether it's for me writing questions or inter next in, interview styles or even, like, maybe how I write something or even sort of what graphic it is and and and so on that I'm gonna do with what I'm putting out. So I find, like, alright.
Rob Lee:What error am I looking for? And I'll go into, like, Google, and it's like, just give me this time frame. I only wanna look at stuff from that or even some of the because I've gotten into decks or what have you a bit more and looking at older design just to get inspiration from it because in in in in a part, like, while some of the stuff is cool contemporarily, but, you you know, when I go back in the past, it's like, that's what I'm looking for. That's that's what I care about, and I'll even look at maybe older interviews and, you know, listening to older, like like, books just to get some illumination from that because at a point, we just kinda get watered down by, like, sort of the same references. But if you go back, you're able to get maybe some sense of truth and something that, hey.
Rob Lee:This hasn't really been touched as much, so let me put my pastiche on this versus taking someone else's.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. No. I I I totally agree. And I feel like, what you're saying there about going, you know, like, going back on Google or whatever. Every single time I design, it starts with, like, a massive Pinterest board or just or, like, Google image search of, like, you know, and and I go down a rabbit hole with it, but, like, for me, I always start by just, like, absolutely, like, like, letting myself become swallowed in, like, you know, whether it's, messaging or, you know, something very specifically visual, but I I love that.
Kait Klusewitz:I totally do that too. And, yeah, trying to, like, kind of and then and sort of parse out, like, what is it that I'm seeing that's common among all these images or all of these ideas that I wanna pull from and kind of make my own.
Rob Lee:I dig that. And so the other side of this or the part b to this question is, you know, I I was kinda slagging it there a bit, but is there, like, a a trend that's, like, really, really, like, super new that, you know, has inserted itself into how you approach your work or that shows up in your work that you're like, alright. This is I can use this.
Kait Klusewitz:Oh, see, that's a tough one. I think that as far as, like, something that is trending in the art world right now, I'm not I'm not super in touch with whatever those things might be. Like, I kinda do what I do, and I know what I'm surrounded by, which is very local. I might feel like my entire life is very, you know, like I'm not I'm not super on the pulse of, like, the the the big art scene with a capital a, but, but I know where I try to like the things that kind of are catching my attention at the moment, and, I mean it kinda get back to what I was saying before. I think right now I'm trying to find a way to sort of marry a lot of these aesthetics together, and and kinda swirl them around, and, and put them into something new, like I it's very random, but I recently redid my bathroom and I came up with a design that I could repeat, and it became kind of a repeating pattern, and I was like, oh, maybe I wanna do wallpaper.
Kait Klusewitz:So I, like, got all these tiny little mini canvases and started coming up with all of these designs that could repeat and, yeah. And I think and what my goal was with that was to try to take little bits and pieces of these images, like, going back to, like, retro stripes for example. It's a kind of thing it's like you can only do so many big bold stripes, but what do you do if you take some of those stripes and you superimpose kind of a more art nouveau flower into it and then make it repeat? So, I think that I I definitely tend to get caught up in the visuals that I like and, I'll do that thing where, like, I was listening to a podcast of yours earlier with somebody, and I don't remember who it was, but they were talking about how when they make art, they, can listen to a song over and over and over and over again. And, and I was like, in the same kind of way, I'll find myself taking, a motif or a shape, and just wanting to, like, play with it again and again, and sort of recycle it through as many different filters as I can, or or as many different, like, applications as I can.
Rob Lee:I like that. I like that a lot. You know, it's it's it's one of those things, like, I was touching on, I think, before we got started, sort of the kind of the the curation, if you will. It's like, I kinda know what I like. And I know what catches my interest, and I know sort of even in doing this, like, doing these interviews, who do I wanna talk to, and why do I wanna talk to them?
Rob Lee:Just like I keep seeing this person's name pop up. I keep seeing this person's work. Mhmm. What do they have to say? What is their work about?
Rob Lee:Giving me a sort of stronger understanding of it. And just, like, I approach what I do in a certain way. It's not that there's no room for, like, further development, but it's, like, I'm curious about what I'm curious about, I guess.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Don't force it.
Kait Klusewitz:Right? If if your brain, if your eye, if, you know, whatever it is, if that instinct inside of you wants to just really indulge in a particular idea or a particular visual, like, don't fight it.
Rob Lee:Love it. So I read on your website is that one of your goals is transforming space through contextual art. Can you speak a bit on, sort of, you know, more on this motivation? I'll give you this context. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:Sure.
Rob Lee:In in a studio space, you can't see it because I'm not gonna take off my green screen currently, but it's just, like, all of my creative stuff. I'm in my my my production studio. All my creative stuff is in here. I have, like, a wall filled with Ninja Turtles action figures. It's great.
Rob Lee:But all the walls are white, and they look terrible. That this is my studio setup. I was, like, there's no art conversations actually happening in here. This is a padded cell with paintings on the walls. So I need to
Kait Klusewitz:in there. Let's get in there. Let's do something with this studio. I'm ready.
Rob Lee:So well, that would be welcome. So talk talk a bit about sort of transforming space and sort of the importance of them. Why did why is that an aim?
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Well, I think that, for me, why that's important personally is, when I when I first started making art, which was a very recent thing for me, I started making art in 2020 when the world stopped, you know. And so I mean, this is not it's not like I, you know, I didn't go to art school. I didn't grow up being like the kid in my family that everyone was like, Kate's gonna be an artist. It was it's pretty recent for me, but I found that it was something that I really love doing.
Kait Klusewitz:But once, you know, life started happening again and it was like a thing that I'd started doing that I loved that I didn't wanna stop doing, it was, I found that I had a really hard time. I'm just not the kind of artist who's gonna have a sketchbook that I carry around with me all the time and doodle in. I'm that I I have found that the way that I love making art is art that kind of has I mean, I call it context, but has purpose, has design, has an an aim to kind of accomplish something. And I don't think that there's any inherent virtue in that. It is just the way that I find myself drawn to making art.
Kait Klusewitz:Like, if I sit down with a canvas in front of me, I panic. I don't know what to do with it. Honestly, I I don't I'll sit there for an hour staring at it, not doing anything, and I'll end up cleaning my entire studio to avoid doing anything with this canvas. But if you give me a space and you say this is how I want this space to feel or, or, you know, we want to make it so that the flow of traffic kind of generally wants to move in this direction or, you know, whatever the goal is. I find that then I start having tons of ideas, and I have lots of inspiration.
Kait Klusewitz:And, I think one of the other questions that we're gonna talk about later is collaboration, but this really feeds into it for me. I love working with parameters and whether that's other people's visions or goals, or you know any other kind of purpose behind it. I am super motivated artistically when there is purpose and context. So I love working with space. I always say that if I if I wasn't an artist and, you know, time and money were no object, I would love to be an architect because I love I love working, in, like, sort of an immersive environment.
Kait Klusewitz:I love when you're somewhere and you feel a way just by standing there. So, I mean, I I I don't know if that answers the question, but for me, I feel like doing murals is it's less about it's almost less about making art, and it's more about affecting the space for me, my artistic motivation.
Rob Lee:So and and that's a and that's a good distinction that kinda serves as a almost hand fisted segue into this this next question around sort of murals and public art macroly as far as folks that, like, are visiting and even folks that are living here. I mean, let's face it. We we we love beautiful things. I was like, man, put something ugly. I was like, no.
Rob Lee:No. Put something great. And, you know, me personally, right, I love the color gray. That's, like, one of my favorite colors. But, also, I love burgundy as I feel like me and you you share.
Rob Lee:Yep. So speak on that as far as, like, beautifying sort of, like, spaces, like, outward. I just wanna get some insight, you know, on that because I I had this interview years ago, I believe, with Molly Ricks from, Baltimore heritage. We were talking about sort of the gentrification gray. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:And it's like, alright. Can we get some color at least in some of these spaces? And, like, around the the corner where I'm at, I'm in East Baltimore, and my old elementary school abandoned blighted. Right? But, it was an artist that did a huge mural on one of, like, the walls.
Rob Lee:And I was like, oh, man. I hope they do something with that place versus it just being something in the background. So kinda speak on that from the mindset of seeing something that looks cool, seeing something that looks beautiful in and around the space we're in from the residence perspective and even with your thoughts on maybe on someone visiting Baltimore.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Well, I think that murals specifically, but any kind of public art really. I think that it's I think that the cool thing about it is that it's kind of accomplishing a lot of things at the same time. I think that, you know, and the the obvious answer to this question is when you talk about community centered art and how art can impact a community. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:And I know you've talked to Jazz, and she does a lot of work here, and I feel like she's definitely been my segue into learning more about community art and why it's so important. And I've only done a handful of truly community collaborative art pieces. But when you have a community and whether that is a neighborhood, a school, you know, whatever that can however you might define that community. When you art is a really good way of in a very obvious way, allowing that community to say something about itself. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:And and to do it in a way that beautifies, but also makes them feel like they've taken some ownership. And and and it's like it's almost like a visual way of giving a voice to where you live. And and people really take per I mean, like, also the Waverly Commons mural that you mentioned earlier. When we did that project, we spent we did a few different we did a few different community engagement, you know, kind of we we did that in a few different ways. But, one of the ways that was my favorite was just sort of canvassing.
Kait Klusewitz:We wandered around. There's a whole community. There's a group of people that just hangs out right there in that square. And we went and we hung out with them. And so not only was it cool to get their ideas about what they might want this mural to be, right, because this is theirs.
Kait Klusewitz:They're gonna be seeing this every day. I might go to the farmer's market every weekend, but they're the ones who are seeing it every single day. This is their square. And and it's and it belongs to the people who live in that neighborhood. And we wandered and we talked to people and asked what they want and what they wanna see.
Kait Klusewitz:And so not only was that really, I think, helpful to and for them that they felt heard and that it mattered that, you know, what what they, you know, are gonna have put on their walls. But also, it was the coolest thing. That group of people that sat there, they, like, they they became, like, our babysitters. Like, they looked after us. They brought us food and water.
Kait Klusewitz:If we needed to walk away with all of our supplies sitting right there in the open because we had to run to the bathroom or get some food, like, we didn't worry for one second about leaving all of our equipment sitting there because they were looking after it. And it was because they had ownership. They had ownership of this, you know, they felt like they were a part of it. And now I really hope that every day that they're sitting there, they feel like that's their mural and that they had something to do with it. And it gives them a sense of pride in their community, and it also gives them a way to express to anybody else coming through, like, this is who we are.
Kait Klusewitz:You know? But also sorry. I'm a docker. But also, I think I think what's cool in terms of the the perspective of, like, people coming into Baltimore and seeing Baltimore is that art is culture. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:And I think I mean, I've been to cities where there's not so many murals, and I've even before I was a muralist. You notice it right away when there is tons of public art. And I think what that does is it tells you that there's culture here. Right? And and that and that that culture is rich.
Kait Klusewitz:And, like, Baltimore doesn't just have art. We've got amazing food. We've got amazing music. And I think that when you get that immediate visual of, like, art is here, it kinda tells you that this is a place that there's more to. You know, that there's a lot to learn about, and that there's a lot of culture to be experienced.
Rob Lee:No. That's that's important. It's a that's a good distinction. Like, when I go to different cities, and I I was sharing with you the wanderlust the aquarium wanderlust, I'm I'm looking for it. I'm I'm looking for, like, alright.
Rob Lee:What's the street art look like? What's the public art? Sort of who's sponsoring the public art or have you? It's like, oh, Verizon. I don't know.
Rob Lee:Or or not necessarily just a bag on them, but whatever the corporate sort of thing is. And, you know, there are times where even in and around Baltimore, I'll I'll see just certain things that's like, alright. You put something up, but it's a little slapdash or who was involved in this. And I'm happy to see it up, but I wish maybe a little bit more attention to detail was was there because feeling that that sense of ownership, like, you know, when I go through certain art districts, you know, I'm thinking of one specific one particularly that, you know, it's like if I'm seeing something out there, I wanted to feel like, alright. This is good, not just like, who's the artist on this one?
Rob Lee:You know, because I've interviewed so many of them, you can tell whose work is what. And, you know, there's another you know, there's other art in that area, that same area that I'm thinking of that's really good, and then you see more recent artists, like, alright. That's not that's not finished. That's Yeah.
Kait Klusewitz:Art. Representative of of the place that you're in. Right? You can drive through a neighborhood, and you can see 2 murals, and you can tell which one had some kind of input input from the people who live there and and which ones were done by somebody who, like, came and saw a wall and did their own thing. It becomes about the artist rather than about the art reflecting the community.
Rob Lee:Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a really good point. I'll and I love the your your sharing sort of the canvassing piece. I I think, you know, coming from sort of the the day job, the the corporate life, whenever there's a a new manager, a new leader coming in for sake of argument, I think the ones that do the successful thing is they canvas, get a sense of the lay of the land versus coming in like Reggie Hamban and saying, like, yo, I'm the new sheriff in town.
Rob Lee:I'm taking this whole thing over. It's just like, no. Canvas, get a sense of what is what is, and then sort of build off of that. That's really important.
Kait Klusewitz:Right. It's humbling yourself, and I've had that exact experience on both sides. I have worked jobs where, you know, like, somebody new comes in and, like, you know, and they wanna they wanna make all these rules, but they don't understand the processes. But so I and I've also been at the other end. I've started in in leadership positions, at jobs and like and it is not only is it a better way to ingratiate yourself to the people that you're gonna be spending time with, but you just do so much of a better job when you humble yourself and you take a moment and you go, okay.
Kait Klusewitz:I don't actually know anything. And I mean, in a work environment, that's one thing. But it's the same thing when you're when you're painting. You come into a neighborhood and you're like, I don't know this neighborhood. We did that at Waverly.
Kait Klusewitz:We walked in and we were like, we you know, Caroline lives in Pig Town. I'm in Butcher's Hill. It's like we're we don't know Waverly aside from the few times that we come in to go to Ace Hardware or go to the farmer's market. So, like, you tell us what your neighborhood is. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:Because this is your mural.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And Butcher's Hill, that that's that's my neck of the woods, by the way.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wait. Where are you Butcher's Hill too?
Rob Lee:A little little further a little further east, but a little little further west rather. But I go through Patterson Park every morning. So
Kait Klusewitz:I'm I'm a couple blocks away. I love
Rob Lee:Patterson Park. Yeah.
Kait Klusewitz:Patterson Park is my heart.
Rob Lee:So you're involved in commercial, residential, and community. Right? And, how do you sort of balance the the needs of a project with your own creative desires? I've come into that a few different times more recent that it's been a lot more often than I'm expecting where, you know, I may have a client that's like, hey, can you, you know, do this pod for us and so on, and I I often say no because it's like we have, like, competing visions, and it's like, this has to be interesting to me. And sometimes it's like, maybe I'm not the right person for it.
Rob Lee:Not necessarily saying this idea sucks, but maybe I'm not the right person for it. You know what I do. Right? You know? Right.
Rob Lee:How do or or or what considerations are you making when you have something that may feel like it's a it's a project or a collaboration, but it's like, what are you, like, aiming for to maybe stress the boundaries of what you do creatively or maybe try out a new technique? So speak on that a bit.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Well, so in the in the mural slash signage world, I feel like there's a there's a few different kinds of murals or signage that people do. There's the corporate stuff, and you mentioned that. And the answer to your question is there's no creative freedom there, really. I mean, only in as much as you might have your own process and have some wiggle room for, you know, how, like, the logistics for how you wanna install or, you know, like, asking for a certain kind of aerial lift equipment over others.
Kait Klusewitz:But but really, I mean, there's when it comes to the corporate stuff, often what you were doing is either straight up signage, and you're being given the font, and you're being given the dimensions, and all of that, or it's, you know, like a big developer, and then a design firm like Yance or something has done the design, so then you're just executing it. And for a job like that and like you said, there's sometimes that, you know, you get you get requests, and you just say that's not me. And that a lot of artists do that. I actually kinda like it. For me, that's a kind of, work that it requires so much less thinking.
Kait Klusewitz:So I mean, I I do a little bit of everything, but not all muralists do. So there's those. And and for those ones, it's like the tension might be there, it might not, doesn't matter. They're you'd like you're doing what you're being, you know, given to do. Where that comes into play a little bit more is with stuff like the I mean, community murals because, again, like, you know, we just had that whole conversation about wanting to represent a community, but also, you know, if you're the artist coming in to do a thing, you wanna put a little bit of voice into it, and, you know, you've got your your way of painting a thing, you know, like, I'm always gonna look like my work, you know.
Kait Klusewitz:So I mean, I think, but that's where, you know, that's where I think you you try to understand the the community well enough that you can find something that you can really relate to and connect to and get really excited about. And it's the same kind of thing for the 3rd kind of mural, which is more of a smaller client, small business kind of thing where, I mean and that's what I do a lot of. I do a lot with small businesses, restaurants, hair salons, that kind of thing. Small business clients are kinda my favorite, because they really do they hit right on that tension, right, of, like, somebody else's requirements and parameters, but then also wanting to kind of express your creative voice and vision. And, and I know a lot of artists get frustrated by that, but again, I find that that is I work best with parameters.
Kait Klusewitz:So it's like, I'll meet you know, maybe tell me what the purpose is, tell me what the feel you want is, and then I'm gonna come up with lots of ideas based on that. So I don't know. But I also I think that I'm not at this point yet, but I hope to one day be at a point where I'm successful enough that I can kind of choose the clients that I'm working with in a way that, you know, I can work with. Because, like, there's some clients that I've worked with that it's like we don't even need to, like, talk about it. Our visions just align.
Kait Klusewitz:Right? And there's, you know, Jesse Sandlin who, you know, I think you've talked to her, haven't you? And I've done some work for Jesse, and it's like like, I don't know. I, like, I just know what she likes. She knows what I'm gonna do, and, like, she and we just trust each other, and, like, she's an amazing client to work with, and I I would love to work with more Jesse's, you know, where that tension just doesn't even really exist because you're just aligned from the from the beginning anyway.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I and and and I'll say and thank you for that because I'll say, like, you know, before moving to this next question, I'll say, like, in in one client relationship that was very, like, you know, at my wit's end of sort of I'm a I'm a relatively patient person. I told him I'm very patient. I don't think I am. I'm like, look.
Rob Lee:I'm burning up inside, but, it's it's one of these things where, you know, I I went there with, like, minimal detail as to what I'm doing. And my thing is I shift from being, hey. I'm just gonna create and just everything is open, you know, that's everything and, you know, kind of looking for those parameters, but not getting them because I think the person running is kind of from an artist perspective. They're like, you're a subject matter expert. So whatever it is that you need to do, I'm gonna let you cook.
Rob Lee:And once I have that once I have that sort of realization of, oh, you're letting me cook. Cool. Got you. But, you know, going in initially, especially when it's sort of like that that sort of intersection of this is business and that it's a contract involved, and so I'm being a professional creator or professional artist. But it's just like, hey.
Rob Lee:Just go ahead and cook. If you told me that, then it's like, I got magic for you. I got gold for you. Right. Do the the sort of corporate y thing, and I've done that.
Rob Lee:I've done ghost podcasts in the past, and I find people don't know what the hell they want.
Kait Klusewitz:But Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Rob Lee:But once we get to that that point where it's just like, no, we just want you and to do what you do, and then we're gonna pay you forward or we're gonna offer you this forward, then that's a sort of different conversation. And I think it aligns with what you were describing, like getting to that stage and that will success or what have you that, okay, I can handpick who I want to come on. And it's even doing it with with these interviews at times. There are some times where I'll I'll have a guest on and it's it's it's it's just it it's not there. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:And that that doesn't happen a lot. Maybe 5% of the time, but the rest of it, generally, it clicks, you know, and that's that's the way it goes. And I kinda look at this as almost that that client sort of relationship. I look at this as more collaborative than anything else. We're dance partners right now.
Kait Klusewitz:Sure. Sure. Yeah. No. And it can be really hard to get to that point.
Kait Klusewitz:I actually find that to be the most difficult part of the process is when you're working with a client who at the start really doesn't know what they want. Right? It's kind of that, like, you're both sort of living in that ambiguity, and it takes a lot of work to figure out, like, to find the thread. And, you know, sometimes you don't. Like, sometimes you sometimes you don't find that thread and sometimes you do.
Kait Klusewitz:And it's like, well, this is kind of more their thread than my thread. But, you know, it's like, you know, but I'm I'm gonna take the job, so I'm gonna do what I need to do. But, it is always, like, there it's amazing and kind of magical when you get that moment of spark where it's like, okay. You you came up with the idea. You're both on the same page and, like, and now they're just, like then then the trust is there too, and it's, like, then you can just be excited about what happens next.
Rob Lee:I love it. So I got 2 more real questions I wanna hit you with, and, the first one goes this way. So recently, you know, you've touched on it. You know, I've interviewed Saba, interviewed Jazz, and, from, Brush Mural Fest, and I learned about sort of the community of muralists and some of the program and education opportunities, mentorship. Great, great stuff.
Rob Lee:So could you could you speak on sort of the role that the Baltimore Arts community from a collaborative standpoint? You you touched on, you know, so your relationship with jazz. So what about Baltimore do you think makes it a unique place for artists from from your perspective?
Kait Klusewitz:Well, 2 of the answers are, jazz and Saba. No. I was I I was and I don't even think that I realized how fortunate I was at the time, but coming into the mural specifically, the mural scene in Baltimore when I did, I I I used to say it was the easiest thing ever. Baltimore made, you know, like, boy, the Baltimore scene, like anybody can just bust into it because all of the artists here just want to reach out and, like, help you and support you and give you resources. And that was a very much my experience.
Kait Klusewitz:I did a project very early on that was kind of a public art project, but it was how I met I met Mowgli. I met Jazz through it. I met a few, Jess from White Coffee Creative. I I met a few artists in the city, and I think, I think that I think that both things are true. I think that it is true that, that Baltimore, I think because, you know, we've got Micah here, but also Baltimore is just I mean, we're not DC.
Kait Klusewitz:We're not New York. It's a smaller city. There's less money here. And I think because of that, I think resources kind of just need to be pulled. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:Like, if any of us are gonna be successful, we kind of need to count on each other and rely on each other, to be able to do that. But I also think that I got very, very lucky in finding the few people that I did early on. Jazz was huge. She very much introduced me to most of the other muralists that I would come to know, and then build relationships with and kind of it was really the seed of kind of, the community that I've that I've, you know, got now in the art art community in Baltimore. But I mean, I for me, it really goes back to, I mean, a lot of muralists start out by assisting.
Kait Klusewitz:Right? So you're being brought on to help another artist, but, I mean, really almost without fail. Every artist that I have met and worked with in Baltimore has just been so willing to share. And whether that's sharing sharing concepts, sharing ideas, like intellectual property, there's like the like, people just are giving that away right now in the art scene in Baltimore. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:Like, I mean, I I've gotten so much advice and been asked for absolutely nothing in return. But equipment, jobs, the number of jobs that I got early on that were just handed off by other muralists who couldn't do the work at the time. Right? So, I mean, I I it's possible that there's other cities out there where there is the same sense of collaboration as there is in Baltimore. But I suspect that it is rare, and I suspect that it is because of people like Jazz and Saba and Jess starting things like Brush.
Kait Klusewitz:I think right now, there is a contingent of of muralists specifically, but artists in Baltimore who are just really invested in making this scene one that is that is collaborative and, like, easier for the people who come after us. Right? Like, instead of that attitude of what was hard for me, it's gonna be hard for the next guy, like, being, like, no. It doesn't have to be like that. We can like, there's enough work to go around.
Kait Klusewitz:Just the point being that I feel like, I I feel like it is because of some it is because of this contingent of artists in Baltimore right now that are working really hard to perpetuate this environment, and and it's working. And I think that the more, warm and and welcoming and open you are to helping anybody else around you come up, I feel like that that intention spreads. Right? And because I had so many artists so willing to help me when I was first starting, I mean, I feel so I I mean, like, I've gained and and and, benefited from that so much that I absolutely will do whatever I can for, you know, like, the next muralist who asks me for some advice or to borrow a paintbrush, you know, it's like, yeah. Sure.
Rob Lee:It's paying it forward, and, you know, that's that's important. I think community is it's it's so key. And, you know, I've for 2 thirds of this podcast journey I don't like the word journey. It's gotten real. But for for this time in which I've been a podcast, I think 2 thirds of it, you know, just out of the nature of what it was, I was kinda, like, learning on my own.
Rob Lee:And now instead of this most recent year or so, you know, always having this desire because it's, for me, it's always like what does the most good. So for someone that's actually trying to get into it, and in a real way, it's it's some vetting that goes on there. But I'm not like, hey. You gotta charge me as a cons you know, you gotta pay me as a consultant to come on and help you with your thing. You know, I always have this belief that, you know, universe, community, whatever it is, I'm I'm gonna be good.
Rob Lee:I'm gonna be looked out for in that regard, but, also, my thing is to help someone, you know, whether it's loaning out equipment. Podcast equipment is not cheap. Or just sharing, like, ideas or even serving as a producer for someone that just helped them get the rhythm and the flow of things. You know, that's what it's been for me, and I've seen other people who maybe have what we would deem as more success. You know, as far as the public faces, you know, it's like I say, dudes in suits don't really have taste.
Rob Lee:You know, those are the ones who need to sort of be the top dog and burn a bridge behind them, and I'd rather rebuild that bridge or at least say, alright. That's another bridge we're gonna make. I don't know when, but we're making another one. That's that's more of my my approach.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Well and I think that I mean, you make a good point. I mean, it but it's it's like it's the concept of the paying it forward, but it's not even just as altruistic as that. Right? Because it's like when it's a reciprocal thing.
Kait Klusewitz:Right? You're not just you're not just paying it forward for the next guy and getting nothing from it because the next guy is gonna come up then, and they're gonna be doing some big stuff, and they're gonna have projects they can't handle and pass them back off to you. Right? So it's not just, you know, so selfless, which I mean, it is a little bit, but it it's also just creating the kind of environment that you want to continue to work in.
Rob Lee:Yeah. That's that's that's a that's a good point. That's a really good point. I I think it's it's relationships at the end of the day, and, you know, I and I find, like, not everyone gets that, but when you run into folks who do get it, that's important. That's why that sort of thriving environment works.
Rob Lee:So that's that's great. You know, we're not a big fan of the I got mine. So you gotta get yours. We're not a big fan of that. You know, it's just like, folks along.
Rob Lee:Alright. So this is the last one that I'm I'm curious about, and I think for for many listeners, even maybe your humble host, I'm curious. When you made sort of that that full pivot, you know, from into, like, full time, like, art, what were some of the the biggest, like, challenges you faced, and, you know, how did you, like, push along? What was, like, that number one challenge that was there? I've had several folks on this podcast who will say, like, yeah.
Rob Lee:I'm full time now. Like, I'm not sort of splitting the time. And, you know, as I shared with you before we got started, Right. I'm a walker living both lives. I don't know how it's happening, but so for you, what was that point and sort of how did you kinda get past that the challenge?
Kait Klusewitz:Well, I I was very lucky to not have the same challenges that I think a lot of other artists do when transitioning from, you know, either the the, you know, the w two day job into, like, their own, you know, their own thing full time or or, you know, kind of, like, trying to ease, you know, from, like, you know, the the the side gigs and then slowly shuffle into it, which I think for a lot of people, the big, stopping point there and pain point there is financial. Right? I have a partner who right around the time that I was kind of making that decision to move into doing art some amount professionally, was just graduating from school and, you know, had a job lined up that, you know, was gonna make it so that I didn't have to worry about, you know, can I pay the mortgage this month if I'm not working my full day job full time anymore? So I was very, very lucky that for me, the the financial aspect was not really a big challenge, which I think that it probably is for a lot of artists or people, you know, creatives moving into, you know, self employment.
Kait Klusewitz:For me, I think that, the biggest challenge was the biggest challenge was real I mean, I think it was kinda twofold. I think I think logistically, the biggest challenge was just trying to build that client base because it's like, you know, even if you aren't, like it's such a hard ball to get rolling. Right? Because you kind of need and it's it's what I think Jazz and Saba are kind of trying to counter a little bit with things like the Brush Mural Festival. But it's, you know, until you have a portfolio of work, you don't have anything to show potential clients.
Kait Klusewitz:And also who are those potential clients? Where are they coming from? So, you know, for me, that was accomplished through doing a lot of assisting. And and like I mentioned before, I was very lucky to have enough jobs handed off that that kind of build a client base and, you know, kind of build a contact list and all of that. So not I mean, but that is like even with all the resources at your disposal.
Kait Klusewitz:Like that is just getting people to trust you, and having done your work for long enough that you can show to people, like, hey, this is a thing that I can actually do, not just say that I can do. So I think that's there's no shortcuts, you know, for that. Like that just takes time, and it just takes kind of like putting your head down and and doing it as best as you can. But the other thing for me is, was very much the imposter syndrome, which I know I already talked about. It's I suffer from it, all the time.
Kait Klusewitz:But, just I think kind of trying to convince a client that I can come paint something on their wall and then sitting at home and going, can I paint that on their wall? Can I do that? I had a moment. So one of the very first real professional jobs that I had was, for a business that it's so sad. It doesn't exist anymore, but it was like a tiki drink place down in Canton.
Kait Klusewitz:And, Yeah. Mister Nice Guys, I'm I I miss it so much. But, that was one of my first real real gigs and, like, and not just not just one that got handed to me. It's like, you know, the client knew me through a person, through my work, and so I was really excited about it. And we talked about this concept, and I mocked it all up digitally.
Kait Klusewitz:And then and, you know, I'd practiced a little at home just to make sure that, you know, to figure out how I wanted to paint some of this stuff. But I remember walking in that day, that first day of work and staring at the wall and, like, being I mean, I would never have admitted this to anybody, but I was mortified. I was I had this moment of being like, can I even paint a plant? Do I even know how to do this? I've been doing this for, like, a year.
Kait Klusewitz:Like, I painted a bunch of flowers, and, like, I think I can do it. And, obviously, I thought I could do it enough that I, like, got this gig, but, like, can I actually do this? And, you know, like, 2 days later, there was a mural on the wall that I was very proud of. And, like, you know, it happened, but the imposter syndrome is really hard to push through, and, you know, it's hard to, like, you need to believe that you can do something in order to convince other people that you can do it. And when, you know, when that isn't very well bolstered in your core, it can be, you know, it's a it's a hard it's a hard hurdle, and I found that it was I I needed to kind of almost, like, fake it till I made it to myself.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. In order to be able to be successful and, and do the things that it turned out I could do. I just wasn't convinced I could do them, you know?
Rob Lee:I hear you. And, you know, last comment I'll make on that before I move into the rapid fire, questions. Yeah. I I run into that on occasion in doing all of these, and I just remind myself of, like, yeah. It's fine.
Rob Lee:No one's gonna know. You know? It's sort of that or even this this notion of, I think, in doing all of these things, certain things are transferable, certain things are not. So I'll get, like, opportunities to emcee something. I'm like, I'm that's a different that's a slightly different skill set.
Rob Lee:Or it's like, oh, be charismatic. It's like, that's not really what I do. Just be charismatic. Yes. I'm boring.
Rob Lee:But it is one of those things where I think when I have too much time, you know, lead time leading up to the the sort of thing, that's when all the naysayer stuff starts popping up and that that syndrome starts to sit in. But it's not like, hey. Just go up there and do it now. It's like, I need a little bit, but I don't need let's say let's say if this if you're like, hey. I got this interview coming up 3 weeks from now.
Rob Lee:I'm like, oh. But if it's like, I got this interview coming up 3 hours from now, I don't really have the time to overthink it.
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Time for that participation and letting that impostor syndrome set in settle in. But, 3 weeks or I remember when I did, the creative mornings and, you know, you get a month and change, 5 weeks, something like that, and I was like, oh, this is I'm gonna I'm gonna spontaneously combust on stage.
Kait Klusewitz:This is way too much time to sit around and be nervous about this thing.
Rob Lee:Right. It's like, oh, just talk about yourself. I was like, I don't know who I am. And, so, yeah, I I think, Yeah. Once you're able to get through get past the hurdles and sort of just just see, like, I'm gonna be successful at this.
Rob Lee:I'm gonna be good at this and just almost reminding yourself that you get past it, and then you just move to the next thing. It's about getting those reps in at times and just responding yourself that I I could do this. I've already done this. Here's proof that shows that I can do this, and I've done this.
Kait Klusewitz:Right. Like, give, like, give yourself space for that thought and then turn your brain off so you don't think about any of the other stuff.
Rob Lee:120%. So that's sort of it for the real questions.
Kait Klusewitz:Okay.
Rob Lee:Now I got 3, 3 and a half rapid fire questions. I know it's a half question in there somewhere. But, as I tell folks all the time, don't overthink these.
Kait Klusewitz:Okay.
Rob Lee:Alright. So I'm gonna save the more art centric one for last. I think it's funny. What is your all time favorite retro item? Flux capacitor.
Rob Lee:What do you got?
Kait Klusewitz:Oh my god. I have, so it's not an authentically retro item, but it looks very retro. Okay. But I have this, this it's it is a, like, it's not even burgundy. It's like, you know, oxblood?
Kait Klusewitz:Like, it is just so deep and rich that it's like it's like we like, we've passed beyond red at this point, and it's this, like, velvet duster.
Rob Lee:Nice. Nice.
Kait Klusewitz:And I'm like, this it is it is my favorite it's probably my favorite thing I own. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Oxblood, I say that that is, the the blood of my enemies for 1. I have a Oxblood color suit that, unfortunately, I can't fit anymore, and, my partner's living room is that color. So and I don't know. I'll be in Nepal, and she's like, why do you have, like, a glass, like a coupe glass in your hand? What are you, a villain?
Rob Lee:It's like, always.
Kait Klusewitz:We gotta we gotta get you back in that suit.
Rob Lee:Yeah. It's and it's it's got, like, the little faint pinstripes in it too. It's
Kait Klusewitz:Stop. Killing me. This is amazing. I'm gonna wear the dust or you're gonna wear the suit. We're gonna go out to, Blooms.
Rob Lee:I'm here for I'm here for it.
Kait Klusewitz:I love it.
Rob Lee:Here's the next one. You you touched on this earlier, so I definitely wanted to dive in it a little bit. What do you usually get from the farmers market? Like, you know, I'm a farmers market, like, goer, tender as well. And, you know, this is how I became aware of, pie time, for instance.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Mhmm. What do you usually get from the farmers market? Like, if I encounter you and run into you there, what do you likely have on your person?
Kait Klusewitz:So I am I am going to apologize because I am so bad at remembering names of businesses. I can describe them. So almost every time I go, there's the one stall that has just everything vegan, and my sister's vegan. So I always get something for her because it's always delicious, and I usually get something for me too. Sometimes the empanadas are there, which are my jam.
Kait Klusewitz:I love me an empanada. But really, my 2 great loves are the, like the of course, it's gonna be like the the vintage, bus. Right? With all the cool clothes and jewelry, like, of course, that's like, I love that. But then also the baked goods, the bakery, like, I gotta bring home the vegan food for my sister and the almond croissant for my partner.
Rob Lee:I dig it. I dig it. Whenever I go out of town, like I was saying before we got started, I was in Columbus, and it's like I'm always bringing something back. And I have this running bit where I bring back coffee beans for my partner.
Kait Klusewitz:Oh, okay.
Rob Lee:It's always something. And if it's somewhere that's local, I'm coming back with ridiculous, like, cookies. So I I popped over briefly, yesterday to pie time, and I was just, yo, Max, what you got? And he's like, I got some oatmeal cookies. They're new.
Rob Lee:I was like, I'm gonna get 6 of those. Yep. Some other things. And, you know, we we go to a movie last night to see candy man, and I was like, yeah. So no popcorn, but I got cookies.
Kait Klusewitz:A thousand times cookies over popcorn. That was the right choice.
Rob Lee:Okay. Here's here's the last one. Here's the last one. If you could pick any spot in Baltimore, doesn't matter. Money doesn't matter.
Rob Lee:Any of the red tape. If you can pick any spot for MURAL, where would that spot in Baltimore be?
Kait Klusewitz:Butchers Hill, baby. It's it's my neighborhood, and I haven't done a mural here, and I'm desperate to. I want somebody to give me money to paint a mural here. I was really, really lucky last winter. I don't know, you said you spent time in Patterson Park, the Observatory there.
Kait Klusewitz:There every, like, holiday season and then through the winter they, there was an artist that was doing installations in the in the window there, and she she passed the torch and last year it was passed to me. And, they've asked me to do it again this holiday season, which I'm so excited about, and it's the closest thing to, like, art in my neighborhood that I've been able to do so far aside from that's not true. I painted a mural in my neighbor's backyard, but you can't see it from the street. I want something public in my neighborhood, and that is, like, totally prideful, but I just wanna walk around and be like, this is where I live, and I get to see this thing that I painted all the time. Because, like, imposter syndrome, man, I kinda still can't believe that this is my job and that I do this.
Kait Klusewitz:So I feel I want that reminder, like, outside my front door.
Rob Lee:I mean, that's one of the motivations of me putting up a giant billboard in station north. I'm gonna run. Okay. I was
Kait Klusewitz:like, yeah.
Rob Lee:You see me right there. Right?
Kait Klusewitz:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Rob Lee:That's that's really cool. Is that is that reminders that verifiable. It's like, yeah. You just see my work? Yes.
Rob Lee:Literally right there.
Kait Klusewitz:Right. Well, I think also too, it'll be, like, when I've proved that I've really made it because it's like, am I even really a muralist in Baltimore if I haven't even done work in my own neighborhood? So one day.
Rob Lee:You'll you'll you'll be there and, you know, hopefully, you know, it'll be sooner than later.
Kait Klusewitz:Maybe somebody listening to this podcast.
Rob Lee:There you go. I mean, there are few people listening to this podcast. Hi, Pablo. So that's kinda it for for the questions for today. So, 1, I think we covered a lot of territory, a lot of good stuff here.
Rob Lee:And, so, 1, I wanna thank you for coming on and spending some time with me. And, 2, I wanna invite and encourage you to share with the listeners, where they can find you at, social media, website, all that good stuff. The floor is yours.
Kait Klusewitz:Thank you. Well, I wanna say thank you so much for having me on, and I was so impressed by how insightful your questions were. When you sent me the list, I was like, how does this man know me so well already? We've never even talked yet. No.
Kait Klusewitz:But I this was so much fun, and I really appreciated how how much time you took to really, like, get to know my work before we did this. So that was very cool. But so my my business name is kk Designs LLC. My website is k k designs. It's k a I t, not k a t e for those who are just listening.
Kait Klusewitz:So k k designs and then, you know, Instagram handle k k designs. It's pretty ubiquitous. If you look up kait k designs, you'll find me wherever you're gonna find me.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Kait Klusewitz for coming on to the podcast and sharing a bit of her story, connecting, purpose and context. And I am your host, Rob Lee, saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it.
