Rob Lee: Welcome to the truth in this art, your source for conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host Rob Lee. Today I am super excited to welcome back my next guest. We're running it back and my next guest is a one of a kind, multi-talented artist celebrated as the queen of the underground and the most lit bitch on the mic. Known for their electrifying blend of club music, hip hop, and ballroom, which forages the sound entirely their own and they were recognized as Baltimore Magazine's 2023 Best to Local Artist. We had the pleasure of speaking back in 2021 and I'm excited to welcome back to the program chaotic couture. Welcome back to the podcast.
Kotic_Couture: Rob, give the khaki artist feel. The queen of the underground and the most lit on the mic. I am Kotic couture, rapper, producer, DJ, and MC. I think those are my most used titles. So I'll stick with them. I like it a lot.
Rob Lee: Thank you for that because I needed that in there. I needed that in there. I like the folks that are big khaki and just my shoulders real quick.
Kotic_Couture: Let me make sure everybody sits up a little bit. Just your time. Let's get prepared.
Rob Lee: So reading over the thing, I researched. So reflecting on recent hitlining show like Artobars, one of those places that's like a hollow place as folks always going there and performing. And for you, could you take us back to, because it's a few weeks ago at this point, probably just over a week as we're recording this, what are some of the key takeaways or impressions of just recently being on a stage like I'm just thinking from a retrospective standpoint?
Kotic_Couture: It feels crazy. I have been DJ. I started off in the city rapping. And then after the pandemic, I don't think it's a secret that a lot of creative shifts so that where before lockdown happened, it was like the city was overflowing with artists. Everybody wanted to be a rapper. Everybody wanted to be out.
Everybody was performing. During the pandemic, there was a big shift and now it's like everybody is a DJ, which is not like we need DJs and Baltimore has some of the best DJs in the world. But you could just go out on any weekend and there would be a show of performances and I stepped away from that for a long time. So it was a little nerve wracking and stressful to be back on the stage because when I'm DJing, I'm just very much into it, into what I'm doing. And I am the same while performing, but it's different because you're more aware of all the eyes on you. And Auto Bar for me is a very special place because it was the first place I had a performance. One of the first places over here, I had a performance like out of high school. I did James Nassie's to have Fizette upstairs. So I came from no stage upstairs in the corner at Auto Bar to getting to headline downstairs. So it was a nice, all-encompassing feeling, but I forgot how nervous I get when I'm performing because DJing, I'm so into it. I'm like, yeah, I got this. I know how to do this. And with performing, it's much more vulnerable for me. So I forgot how nervous I get, but I had a lot of fun.
Rob Lee: Well, that's great. And nerves are important because I think it matters. And I think of it, you just made me think of it actually. Like, it's rare that I'm on stage. I feel like I've been on stage at the Inner Harbor more times than I would like to even admit. Right? For Baltimore by Baltimore, even back in the day, like lights.
And the Light City one popped up in my head a couple years back, or when it still exists, I suppose. And me and just a hodry of other podcasters, we're getting on stage. It's seven of us. It's a wild thing.
It's not a podcast. It's like we are improv-ing. And I remember some woman was like watching. She was like, yeah, why do you Wu-Tang Clan?
Because there's so many of us that's getting on stage. We had big leather jackets on. It was wild.
It was cold. And I found that, like, generally in that circle of friends, in that group of friends, I don't push myself to be the alpha anything, right? But that's naturally what the thing is, because I'm pretty confident in the thing that I do. And the guy that was the promoter, this is really inside baseball. He and I kind of had a little bit of a physical thing before we got on stage. Oh. So it was definitely like I was on one. Why did you get...
Kotic_Couture: And you got called a part of Wu-Tang Clan.
Rob Lee: Literally. I literally left it. Yeah, Yappadana is what I call myself. And because I talk too much. So when we get on the stage, that sort of energy of like, yeah, we're leading this and so on, it all kind of like went insular. I was like, I was because it's like, I'm now performing. I do this. I've been talking and talking with people sharing stories for years, even at that point. But doing it in that capacity, I didn't even care about the elements. I was just like, yo, people are looking at me.
Kotic_Couture: You're so into it. It's very much like all of a sudden you're aware. And it's like, for me, like I feel everything. I'll be up there. I'm like, okay, I'm hot. Like I can feel everybody staring at me.
Like I hope that my clothes are fine. It's just all these things. And then me at the same time, I'm like, okay, but you have to focus. Like you have lyrics you need to memorize. You need to be in the moment. So I also, what I like about performing is it forces me to be in the moment. I'm a very introspective. Like I overthink about everything and my mind wanders. But being on stage, it's like I have to focus. I have to pay attention. So as nerve-wracking as it can be, it's also kind of therapeutic because it's like for that 30 minutes to an hour that you're on stage, like I have no other choice but to be here. So that's a good reminder after I walk away. I'm like, okay, I was actually present.
Rob Lee: Do you feel that, you know, after having that experience that because it had been a while that you could do another one the night the next night or was like, y'all will take a week. Like what?
Kotic_Couture: Actually, yeah. Um, I forgot it's crazy because 30 minutes to people is like a long time. And that's typically like a 20 to 30 minutes set. If I'm being featured somewhere is what I'm doing. If I'm performing. I did over an hour set. So it was kind of crazy because going into it, I'm like, oh my God, is my set too long?
Like are people going to want to listen to me for this long? Um, but after the fact, I was like, I kind of missed this. Like it's an adrenaline rush in a different way. But also it's just like DJing.
I'm just, I'm so focused. Like I was saying, but like I get to use my whole body. I get to really tell a story and navigate on stage. And I was at theater kids when I was younger. So it's like, I get that little like being back on stage under the light. So yeah, actually I was like, okay, you know, I don't know if I could be on tour because that's a lot, but I could definitely, I could definitely do this again a couple more times. I love that.
Rob Lee: And you've been a cornerstone of not just the sort of Baltimore scene, but I think part of the, just the music scene and the creative scene here overall for years. So Lee, in that, and I think it's good topic that we're kind of covering here. Having recently like performed and has like sort of that experience. What do you attribute to that longevity and that sort of continued like evolution? Cause you know, we talked, you know, four years ago and you know, sort of, I like to look at these as continued conversations and evolution as you will.
Kotic_Couture: Um, yeah, that was another thing we're celebrating. I've been in Baltimore for 10 years now. So this is like my 10 year anniversary and, um, I think reinvention is one big thing. And also I always just say very cleanly of like, it's, it's twofold for me. Um, one of those is keeping your ear to the street and one of those is reinvention. So I think that I have been out and about for a decade now, but it hasn't been consistently rapping. So when I'm not doing music, I'm DJing. If I'm not DJing, I'm MCing.
So I'm out in some capacity, but I think having different creative endeavors allows people to, I don't want to say get bored, but like you're not seeing the same thing. There are people who just know me as a DJ. There are people who are like, I did not know that you DJed. I just knew you as a rapper. And then people are like, I only went to parties and you were on the mic. So it's nice to have multiple like streams of identity.
I share it and that helps a lot. But also I think one of, I'm just a nerd. I like to dig deep into things.
It's, it is my ADHD superpower of just like when I get hyper fixated on something, I kind of just like dig into the depth of it. And I really just love Baltimore's creative scene. I think one of the things that has helped me remain a staple is that I'm always constantly out here to see like who's next, who's coming up and because that's what I love. I love to see people who when I started were coming up and asking me for advice like headlining shows now. And I just love to support people and see their growth. But I think it's important also as people may look at me as like a legend in the underground scene. I think it's important to be tangible to give pointers to give advice. And I think that that has guided me a long way because I'm across the board in a lot of different creative scenes, but I'm also on a lot of different creative eras.
And that's just because I just love Baltimore music and Baltimore music scene so much. So it's not the reason why I do it. It's like I'm not out to continue my name, but I think being out has helped continue my name.
Rob Lee: That's good. That's a good point. And I think being accessible is important. And you know, being out there and like, you know, I was sharing a little bit before we got started.
Like I do this. It's a lot of interviews here and a lot of personalities that one is navigating. But you know, I find and and I've gotten a feedback there. You know, some folks that I met through this podcast, I've become friends with and I cultivate and maintain those friendships.
And they're like, you should be doing education. So I've been able to kind of, you know, dive into that a bit. And because it's just a natural thing for me. It's a natural thing that matters to me.
We're part of that is being accessible. But then at the same time, I like to be a ghost sometimes in a quarry is we like to detach and I'm like, I'm gonna be over here. And and and I remember it was a guy who was in the pod and he does a podcast and he had asked me, he's like, how do you do this? Just in podcasting. And I wasn't trying to come up with like, well, if you sign up for my subscription service, I'll get all of the tips. I was like, no, you just do this, this and this. And I was like, I hope this helps.
And he's like, yo, it helped you save me a couple of hours. And that's, I think what matters to me that someone could you do this, you've done this for a long time. I'm coming up on almost two decades as a podcast. It feels wild to say. And but yeah, I think being around and being and I love that you said through multiple errors. That's a big thing and like touching so many things. It's not just the underground. I think the overall sort of creative
Kotic_Couture: you're around you're out here and to be outside. I definitely am a recluse at the same time. Like I will have months where I'll be like, I love y'all, but y'all are not gonna see me out of function.
And then y'all might see me out like for a month straight, but it really, it really depends. But I just try to support as much as I can because it's not an ego thing to me. I think as cocky as I am in my music, I think I'm equally as humble and like realistic in real life. And to me, it's less about like it's not just, oh, I have to win. I want to see everybody win. Like I want to see for me, a win for the city is a win in general because if somebody sees one person there, like Brett Baltimore, real heavy, that does nothing but open the doors or open opportunities for us as a city. So I just want to, I know the talent that we have in the city and I just want to see us flow. Absolutely.
Rob Lee: I remember this before I moved to this next question. You know, when I got started in podcasting and just figured out one of my buddies, we no longer record together.
But you know, I just remember we just had this conversation. I was like, man, and I can get in the door. I'm gonna leave that joint cracked. I might get knocked over just so people can come through. But you know, and it's very important to, you know, for someone to get over and using the wrestling parlance, but also like help that next crew, like that next group get over because you doing it as an individual or whoever does it as an individual.
Yeah, sure. It helps them. But it's like really, what are you giving?
What are you contributing? Like I've seen folks who, you know, kind of get on, get a little attention and then somehow they're trying to like take from the equity that comes with being an artist from here. But it's like your Brooklyn base, your LA based or whatever.
And that opportunity has been floating my way several times. Like, bro, you need to be over there in Austin, Texas. You need to be in LA because the medium that you're in, you really blow up there. And I'm like, I kind of want to do it here. And I'm like, you're bugging. I was like, this is what matters to me.
Kotic_Couture: I agree. I remember there were many nights outside the crown and people would be like, why are you out in not in New York? And I love this city. Like when you asked me why I started doing this, as much as I say, left I am missing are the reasons I started rapping. I always say case with the Miss Tony are the reasons I started deejaying and seeing. And so like, it means more to me to have love and a legacy and such an important and iconic place as Baltimore City when it comes to art. And I feel the same way. I've always said, I, if I'm not the one to kick the door down, I may at least loosen the hinges and just knowing that I've done that is enough for me. Love it.
Rob Lee: So when I move into, you had an album that recently dropped recently within the last six months, I like to say. A prototype, probably a little bit more than six months, but prototype. So, at least co-produced and this came out October. So could you tell us a bit about sort of the journey of bringing the project to life and what it means to have it have it out there?
Like I get scared sometimes when I have these interviews and like wonder what people are going to think when I put this out, but I put it out so frequently that's like, all right, it's out. It's out there. So for you in creating a prototype, tell me about that.
Kotic_Couture: Um, this is the most fun I've ever had creating a project. I know my friends will agree. I am usually so stressed. The last two projects I did, I did Diary of a Dreamer in 2019 and late to the party in 2022. And both of them were, they had a little stress surrounding them, but they also had different backing. So I was working with a boutique label, Babe City out of DC. So when I did, but when I did Diary of a Dreamer, it came out and then like two weeks later, my father passed away. So it was like everything that we kind of had lined up hit like a little bit of a curveball.
And then 2022 was just a, a month's pause of a year for me mentally. So, um, but creating things for a label is like they, they loved what I did and which is the reason why they approached me for the releases. But also I put a different pressure on myself like, okay, I have to make like radio records or like structured records in this way. And prototype was fun for me in the sense of I had kind of learned my, my way around production a little bit more. So I was able to create this album sonically in a way that I had never done before. So I love collaborating with other people, but to also be able to just like fill in the blanks and be like, okay, well, I want this kind of track.
Well, wait, wait, wait, I can make this. And then also knowing like the strength of other people in the city. Good boy who was an amazing producer DJ son did a single K young just so much talent and Baltimore is like, I love being able to be like this is a 14 track album and all but two of the producers on there are currently based in Baltimore, but everybody has had ties to Maryland or Baltimore at some point in time. And it's just like that's a flex to me to go somewhere else and be like, this is all Baltimore album. And just creatively being able to have fun and make the music. This is the album where it's like, if you were to ask who is chaotic or this is the project I would tell people to listen to because I feel like this is all encompassing of who I am.
And yeah, that just I didn't put a lot of pressure on myself. If I sent some songs to friends and they were like, I don't know about this. And I'd be like, well, you're just going to have to be unsure because I believe in it. And it's, it's fun. My best friend texted me the other day actually was like, you know, the song I was most unsure about it's actually become one of my favorites and things like that. And I'm like trusting my instincts because I know what things can be. It's those things are nice to hear. So yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun creating the album and it's very upbeat and very danceable.
I'm just, I'm happy to have it out in the world. I also feel like it's not one of those things that I have pressure around people listening to like it's been out for six months. But if people just now discovered it's still sonically going to be relevant. So I'm down for that in two years. It'll still sonically be relevant. So it's my most proud work. I can say 100%.
Rob Lee: It's great to hear. And, you know, the last part there to sort of the time attached to something like, you know, I was literally just having this conversation this past weekend. I was in DC because I was bougie in it up and I was just talking about sort of, you know, how something has staying power.
This is not 100% related. But I remember back in the day you'd have an album for a summer. It's like, I'm listening to this the entire summer. And now it's just like that specialness is gone. But to hear like sort of, this is like you're just really happy with the project and feeling like, man, it's been out this many months. So it's been out. It'll be over two years.
It's still going to like hit in that way. That speaks to time timeliness and timelessness project. And I think like, I think it's the sort of binge culture that we have. Let's just eat it up. Let's consume it because And maybe it's sort of this hyper fixation on there's something new. I need to eat all of it because I'm as precious. And it's like, you can go back in. So like, you can, because I'm one of these, this is, this really sets into the the insights. One of the albums that I really dug was after hours, right? The weekend joint.
I was like, yeah, depressed Aquarius right now. And it dies in. And it literally was something that I played for like six months straight. I still tap back into that album as a 2020 album. So I just like look for that in music and and I really like getting that connective tissue when you hear from the artists what the experience was like and what goes into it. It's like that much tear and attention that went into it versus I need to put some content out.
Kotic_Couture: Yeah, you can tell you will for me just because like I'm just such a control freak in nerd when it comes to music. I can listen to an artist project and I'm like, I can tell this was thrown together. I can tell these were scrap demos that you had and you were like, let's just make an album. I can tell when it's like, oh, you went to the label and you were like, just give me a bunch of hooks and I'll write the verses.
Like, but you can also hear when something is authentic. And I think I think one of the artists welcoming that again is dochi when she put out the mixtape. It's like people were really listening to it and they were like, oh, it's so many tracks, but just to have something that you can tell somebody put care and an effort into is nice because the amazing thing about music for me, music art in general, like books, everything is you can do. You can find something old at any point in time and it's going to be new to you. And that's fun because it's just like I was in the gym today and a Janet Jackson song came on and I'm like, I'll listen to like three or four songs from this album but I've never listened to this album and this album might be 15, 20 years old but guess what this can be brand new to me. And I don't know, that's just that's fun to me. So I love music that has that ability because if you can listen to something to be like, oh, this came out in 2020. That's not always a good thing.
Rob Lee: Look, that's so true. I think music is in many ways a time capsule and it just takes you back to when a thing happened or I find like when I go back and like listen to like house music or if I go back and listen to something from like the early 90s. When I was a kid and I just didn't have musical taste. I'm like, yo, it's the thing for Power Rangers on like can we just get back? You know, that would be great. But diving back into like, you know, the dangerous album, for instance, it's like, oh, this is a New Jack swing album. And now at 40, we're listening to it. It was like, I wasn't even around like as a, you know, cognizant being now, but something like, yeah, I know the vibes were that some of the adults. But it's that's really nice because it's like, I don't know, just having that exposure and you get to learn love and respect things on a new level.
Because I don't know. I went through a lot when I was younger. So, you know, like trauma just kind of like you erase memories. So I don't necessarily have like a lot of memories that I think back to and I'm like, oh, this was a great memory.
But I do have certain albums that remind me of like times when I was happy. Like most recently I listened to, I don't know why I watched T-Pain's Coachella performance. And I was like, let me go listen to three rings.
Like I haven't listened to three rings in a really long time. And I was just in my car so happy because I was like, oh my gosh, I remember being in high school and just like not having any like worries or cares. And it doesn't take me back to like specific memories, but it just takes me back to such a happy feeling. And I love that about music because certain songs will trigger certain memories of time. I'm like, you know what, this is, it's just amazing. It's amazing what art can do in that and like books and other things. But yeah, I just, I love music.
Rob Lee: I'll throw this last thing before I move to this next question. It's like music can also be like that, that's sort of like the activation of a certain part of the year, like that running is that when summertime comes on, it's just like, look, it's got to be hot.
Now you can't put summertime on from Wilson to the Jeff if the temperature is not at least 80 degrees. And I remember once upon a time when I worked at a big phone company, right? I worked at a Spanish speaking call center, and I really got into free like Latin freestyle like TK a Stevie B. So I wanted to channel, I'll send you a picture of this so you can really laugh along with who you are. But I wanted to channel Stevie B's aesthetic. And again, now I'm going to doubt. I was like, I get it now. Then I was like, this is good music. But it was back to the sort of era we're talking when I discovered it.
These are songs that were from the late 80s into the mid 90s. I discovered like 2007 to your point. This was new to me then that it had been around like 20 years. How it's almost 40 years old. I'm like, yeah, this is the type of style. Where's my Kuba Vara shirt in my linen pants. Let's get it. Miami set. Let's go.
Kotic_Couture: That's a great thing because I definitely got my car the other day. And I was like, it's like Megan the stallion outside. Like that's what I have to listen to. Like it just it feels like Meg weather. Like it's just good that music can do that.
Rob Lee: So when it when it's shipped into this this this recognition question, like, you know, you be more our cover. That's one that's really dope that you were you were on beat be more arts cover that your name best local artist and Baltimore magazine 2023.
So just you know, post, you know, truth in the heart interviews. So, you know, it's just that ascension that goes up and considering sort of the dedication and the amount of the care and attention that goes into your work to behind the scenes stuff like that behind the scenes video that you posted all the work that goes in that artist put to put on a show for sake of argument. What kind of specific like support do you feel are most meaningful and most sustainable, if you will, for like, Baltimore artists, you know, like yourself and just did you just think in general, because you know, it's one of the things I've been really curious about in this season, like, artist attrition with the support look like we have this hustle and grind culture, but not this sort of stop and smell the roses. So with that recognition in mind and, you know, sort of, you know, the fans that out there, the avenues for support. What are your thoughts in that area?
Kotic_Couture: I think I know a lot of artists like monetary support by my music come to the shows with that's a given that is important. I, to me and my humble opinion, I think one of the most important ways that people can support and it goes to show with my longevity and my career. It's just keeping someone's name alive in a room. Just simply if you're in a space and somebody's like, Hey, I'm looking for XYZ and you know that somebody can do it just being like, Hey, have you thought about chaotic or you should look up chaotic a tour that goes such a long way. I can't tell you how many times which it can be a little bit annoying if I'm being honest where people are just like, I don't really know what you do, but I was told that like I have to get you.
I'm like, Okay, you could have done a little homework. But at the same time, I'm so grateful that somebody like held me down that hard that you went through with with booking me. So I think that that for me is the most important thing is just if there's somebody you love and there's somebody who you truly support, you like the way they DJ. You like their music.
Speak their name at any chance you can just if you're in passing you somebody is like, Oh, I just got this brand new gig working on this festival. Have you heard of XYZ? Like that goes a lot further than what a lot of people think. But of course, if you have the the means to come to the shows by the merch by the music, but just simply keeping an artist name alive in the city, I think does a lot more than what people realize.
Rob Lee: Yeah, I think the musician XYZ does like Norm Core music controlling. No, no, but that's a really, that's a really good point. And I literally just last week and I think in this sort of archive of interviews, 800 plus interviews, right? And I was talking with Kai Vassar about just, you know, like her recent work and all that. Yeah, some monumental guests come back on the podcast.
And she was like, I'm a nerd and people don't think that it's on and we were talking about horror a little bit and immediately I referred someone like three different people in the podcast that she may not have been aware of. That's what I find that I do. But the thing that gets me is I find this all the time, like, I'm, you know, I don't gas myself up too much.
I've been doing this for a while. And I find that there's so many people who think that they can grab a mic and suddenly they're a podcaster. And I'm like, look, I am a professor in this lane. You know, it's almost like that bit. It's just like you give a nigga some roping the cowboy and it's just like, you're not. You're not.
Kotic_Couture: That is, I just want to say, and this I'll have my cocky moment. But don't realize how hard it is. I went to school for I went to the broadcasting Institute of Maryland. So I went to school for broadcasting. I most recently moderated shot and again, keeping people's names alive. Terry Henderson was was sick and wasn't able to moderate.
Mike, he was in Christopher's book book discussion. And she was like, I think she's chaotic. And Michael was like, you did such a good job. And I'm like, thank you.
Like this is what my my background is in. But also in that moment, it was, I don't want to say it was odd for how do I say what I want to say? It wasn't odd for people to be shocked, but it reminded me how many times in this line of work people. nd overestimate their ability like they think oh, let's just grab a mic and it's easy It's like no it's it's reading people its understanding language. It's improv in a way It's knowing like okay I may have had these questions but you picked up on this thought where people might want to know and and I think that was art in General it happens a lot with with rap also and people don't see rap truly for the art that it is Because so many people be like yeah, I'm a rapper and it's the most Mod pod of quality and it's just like Do what you do everybody deserves to express himself creatively however, I am a bit of a art nerd and I am a bit of Stickler so I judge a little hard. I don't judge people like you judge art a little hard sometimes But yeah, people don't take Understand the talent that goes into podcasting that goes into to music and just that in general It is very hard and there is a skill to the things that we do and I think that's the the lost Peace to a lot of people.
Rob Lee: It's it's missing all the time and as a person who's like a failed high school rapper like Like there's some tapes out there like look I had recording gear and I was like I'm gonna put this out there But it was very nerdy it's like I'm rapping about Beowulf and friggin like I'm rapping an iamic pentameter I'm a nerd. It's fine But then also like like owning the thing, but I'm not ultimately I guess I Think I find and it goes to kind of the example I was writing earlier Because I'm accessible in that way just using this very specific thing That I'm down to help but I find like I have people who want that as a thing for them You know like hey, I should do this podcast, but let me reach out to Rob to get as much as I can say probably hire me or Maybe change that sort of like I'm gonna talk a little talkie right now. It's like look I'm the dundot of this shit But it's but it is a thing where you know, it's it's an expertise thing It is the these are specific skill sets and I I see it all the time and you know And and I'd love to see that actually when you were moderating the the the conversation for same scene because I'd had Micah And Christopher on here You know promoting the book before it came out and you know, it's I think it's really important for You know it made sense like your Legend your musician you're in that the industry it made sense for you to be the person doing it if tarry wasn't able to do it
Kotic_Couture: But I appreciate it um Yeah, it's just But it and it also goes back to community like Micah is One of the first photographers who photographed me when I moved to the city so again those those connections and that's I think and Also to you speaking earlier to saying like how do you get to this level?
I think so many people want to rush things another lesson that I've learned is just Networking with people but not for the sake of networking like aligning yourself with people who truly um Align with what you do as a person. I've been in front of the camera for Micah I've been behind the scenes doing makeup for Micah like I these are people in this scene where we have Met each other in music and we've cultivated actual relationships And looking out for each other and you as you're growing people are growing too There's people who used to come to my shows who are now booking agents at venues And it's like as long as i'm still doing the thing if they have the opportunity it's like okay Let's hit you up for this So I think a lot of people want the instant gratification, but that's another cheat code too. It's just really nurturing The relationships that mean something to you and just doing it for the long run and those doors ultimately are going to open
Rob Lee: So so what you're saying right is if I've been need like a makeup situation because I've been told like I need I should start wearing an eyeliner. I was I was told this I've been told this on because like my eyes right No, but but you're so right and I think we have this habit You know when we talk to like founders and people who are like Sort of the face of a particular thing that I did it by myself, right? It not there was a producer there was someone that offered an opportunity There was someone in front of the camera that took the picture for your album or whatever the thing is and you know, I just find like We we we're better when we're working together but all together to your point Saying those names in those rooms that the other person may not be in and just passing along keeping those names out there
Kotic_Couture: It's very important and credit if you're listening to this credit that is That is one of the biggest things Angers me so much like credit the person who took the photo the person who retouched the photo the person who was Behind the scenes of the video like make sure that you give those people credit because I am someone who likes to say like I do a lot of my work And that's just me saying like I enjoy creating again because that's like Being an artist is the only thing I've ever felt like I was good at so that's like not me being cocky It's just like I take a lot of pride in this but also I give love to the people who hold me down like Antonio electric llama does all my video work And that that is like one of my close friends like and in amnesia. She does all my album covers retouching She does our version flyers like people ask these are people I'm sending to them because these are my friends I want them to win too like these I don't know the people Behind the scenes are as important as the people in front because I can have an amazing album But if e brady robinson didn't shoot a bomb ass album cover The cover is what sells the project like you know, it's it's everybody is it's involved So I think that's very important to show the love to the people who Who are the cement in the sidewalk who like fill in those spaces as you're doing these things Yeah, I like that
Rob Lee: analogy right there Yeah Uh, so I got I got a couple more definitely you you touched on virgin. So we're going to talk about that But I definitely since we're talking on this and there's so many elements and so many parts of the overall like Product if you will that goes out there not to turn us into commodities But the overall like product that goes out and balancing so many different creative roles. How do you manage to keep it all together?
Kotic_Couture: Um, that is a great question. I will let you know when I figure it out I read shonda rimes book a year of yes years ago And something that has always stuck out to me in that book is She said if I'm succeeding in one area of my life, I'm ultimately almost failing in another area And that's just that's what it is if I'm Doing my phone has been blowing up this whole time that we've been here I just see it blinking in the corner like if I'm in artist mode. I'm ultimately Neglecting my friends or family. I've missed hella birthday parties and monumental moments for gigs Um, but then there's also moments where it's like, hey, I'm I don't care how big the tech is like I have to be there for my people So I think it's a continued balancing act because you know, it's It's hard.
Um, I definitely have emails right now that I probably missed and I should have gotten a little bit earlier Um, but it's it's just a part of being human. I'm very hard on myself. But as I get older I've just realized like it's the reality. It's the reality of it I'm Going to be failing in one area of my life if I'm succeeding in another and all I can do is be as Transparent as possible.
Did you say like, you know, I have this thing going on? I'm sorry. I'll try my best but um Yeah, it's just the reality. I I think that is one of my biggest struggles. I don't think I have to get that out yet It's it's a work in progress
Rob Lee: Thank you for that honesty and it's um, you know, it was something that I Listened to this as podcasts about just different autobiographies as uh called founders and you know, it was this one that was Sort of a dual episode is about Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan and one of the things that I took out of the the the Jordan thing I thought was very interesting was sort of that success is attributed to just what he did on the court and What he did in the court is all this other stuff that went into a behind the scenes of I'm gonna shoot this jumper or whatever and it was sort of like I got a very rigid schedule going this season Now I have time for any of this other stuff and I was like That might be something to look at and as I was doing this season.
I'm generally I'm trying to If the Aquarius thing ride that wave and I was just like this season. I'm trying to stick with prioritizing guess who's been on this podcast before and You know some of those opportunities like I had someone who's a multiple Tony winner who wanted to do the podcast and I was like Ah This could be really good But also I need to stick with theme because it's a timing thing and and and so on and be more Fine with saying no and just look at it as a choice because it is balancing. I don't have an assistant anymore I do a lot of this on my own and You know, we have this specter of we just have the art the stuff is just there And it's like no there's work that goes on behind the scenes And how much work won't get it and you know until you have to speak on it but it feels so weird to speak on the amount of effort that goes in so Setting those those boundaries or those parameters if you will can give you some sort of Funneling and and and more structure to what? Currently when you're in the process feels unstructured. It feels like it's just I'm just doing it When April comes around it's like so taxes, right? You're like, okay a little little more structure next
Kotic_Couture: year Always I had a takeaway during I'm a country kid. I grew up with the liar like just a big yard So they were like out and moved so when when lockdown happened I was like I'm not getting locked down in an apartment. There is no way and I went and um, I stayed with my brother and in my in my nieces and in his wife and it was interesting to me because my brother had said to me he was like I Never because I was doing so many interviews doing like live streams. I was producing He was like, you know, I never took into account how much work it takes for these things to happen and My best friend and I have this conversation all the time.
It's like, you know Our family's just like, oh, well, why aren't you here present for this thing and my friends don't understand I'd be like, all right. I gotta go to the gym. You know, like, but do you have to I'm like How do you expect me to do an hour set and keep up with my words if I'm not going to the gym and getting my cardio in it's like but also I think most people Who don't do something creatively or and this is in no way a dig but most people who like go to work and go home They don't always conceptualize All that it takes for something to come to fruition So it's like even though they hear the music people don't stop to think like, oh, you have to take time to make that beat You have to take time to Record it refine it mix it and master it. That's just not common knowledge to people and I used to get really frustrated but I've I've found that like just communicating with people like yeah, I'm I want to be there but also Then the end and results you want to get into this party for free I still got to do these things. It's going to get you into this party for free So it's like you you have to understand but it is a balancing act So I think also just like that that communication and in speaking to what you said about having like somebody else reach out When you've decided something that has happened so many times for me Well, I'm like I'm going to take this month off and then I'll get the biggest gig and I'll be like, you know what? I've only got the test from the universe Because it's like if I accept this You're slipping on what you said you were going to do Um and in those opportunities if they're meant to be they always come back around But I have to learn that too. I used to say yes to everything And I think one of my favorite things not in a cocky way But one of my favorite things now is being able to say no Because that means that I have Enough going on that I have to prioritize and I had to learn to look at it that way absolutely
Rob Lee: So I want to move into sort of these next two questions there because they have a theme to them Okay, let's go to DC a little bit. So It's got to 95 So I was in Georgetown not too long ago, right? And I was buying some ridiculously expensive cookies from like LA Burdick Look, they got me in a chokehold.
I will travel out of state for cookies. That's how dire it is That's understandable. I'm walking I'm well partner. I was like is that chaotic right? And I was like, yo I was like so she's doing you know, like print me.
So you're you're everywhere. So talk a bit about sort of, you know being able to extend like out of Baltimore out of even this sort of region and sort of how that's gone and even in sort of um, like I've seen your Digit you don't cover them, obviously, but that's like that's like so you got another thing So just add this to the list as well like out here modeling. So Tell me about that
Kotic_Couture: um, again, just knowing amazing and talented people e brady robinson who uh shot the cover of prototype She also shot the cover of the be more art magazine that was one of the outtakes that we had from I think my hair was pink in that picture. So that was one of the outtakes from the Be More Art shoot And it was just something when she was like, hey, like I'm gonna be in this gallery.
Would you be open to me using this picture? And I'm like, absolutely like of course And I didn't know it was going to be front and center like I just so when I got the picture of like Friends of mine walking by and they're like, you know, you're in this gallery. I was like, yeah, but I thought I was in the inside Like it's it's just one of those things where the universe really just rewards you I think when you are like open and open to helping people and Brady is an amazing photographer and I can't take any credit for that. Again, it's just like the blessing of working with people who you're aligned with and The I just feel like the universe I tell people all the time I don't have to get that crazy anymore because my spirit team don't play around me So the opportunities that I get the karma that other people get it's out of my control I'm just producing a product and I let the blessings flow. So I'm I'm happy to have people who believe in me and and want to Put me in these situations. So I can't take much credit for that one. That was that was Brady and I'm thankful to have been a part That's that's dope.
Rob Lee: I mean, I'll share like what I what I saw you.
Kotic_Couture: I was like How I figured this out I was like, so what that's like, so do you run the gallery? It's like, oh, I just I was like, oh, okay I was sort of the visual. I was like, we'll put this this chocolate chip cookie back in his bag It was one of those big ones too And because I was like, I can't be eaten and examining like sort of at the same time.
Yeah, it's a it's a wild visual You have like a six foot four dude with like cookie crumbles coming out of his mouth like just staring at a window Right great visual Oh
Rob Lee: So then then there's the other sort of DC component, right? So I read and you know, Bernard was a guest in the pod So black techno matters, right? So You're we're working with black techno that black techno matters, um like doran, uh, july right for juneteenth. So Yeah, liberate the boltz more leg of liberate. Um, could you tell us about that and sort of like how that came about?
Kotic_Couture: Yeah, so again Relationships that's actually this has been a long-standing relationship. Um, and again, I just those sacrifices as we were talking about my my dad died the last week of may, um, and so may 31st and June is right there So like doing everything for my father's funeral and then I was like, I can't let go of these gigs So, um, I had a gig with show nature. We were working with jack jack jill at u street music hall And I was emceeing and I just had so much going on But I was like, I just want to focus um, like I just spent the whole week Planning my father's funeral and I was like, okay, but I have this gig And then I literally left that gig hopped on a bus went to new york But I was I was hosting at this gig and bernard and his partner were there And after the fact they sent me like a message on instagram like oh my god We had so much fun like you're so talented. We would love to work with you You know like the standard message you get from people and but what I've learned is I never turn people away because Who am I to say what you're working on is invaluable?
So I'm like, yeah, just let me know like Hit me up like I'm out these next couple weekends But just like hit me up and it just really turned into an amazing working relationship. So since 2019 In different capacities. I've been working with black techno matters doing their radio shows submitting songs for compilation projects And last year was the first time I I did a liberate and then they're like, we'd love to have you back for a second year So we're doing liberate again this year. We're announcing soon.
We're just doing the final touches Right now. But yeah, it's it's amazing again Just to see like the growth and cultivating Relationships and black techno matters has so many talents to DJs and producers And it's just I'm very thankful to be among the names But they're amazing amazing amazing collective. They do great work and they work really Hard so I'm just very thankful to be in their Scope of things and on their radar and having the ability to work with them That's great.
Rob Lee: And uh, it is when I saw that as far as some of the talking points I was really excited because I I love when Guests that I've had on just are working together, especially if I'm like, oh, that that makes sense They're both really good at what they do. Yeah, that's that should come together.
Now granted. They're awesome. I'm like, sure you They're not a lot better to do And it's like you might need a few more years, but then seeing like That alignment again So I got this last question Uh, so, you know as we we talked a little bit earlier about sort of Just the values the alignment where you know, it's a podcast and sort of what I've and I say at any intro, you know Arts culture and community and community is important community and connection especially given sort of What I've touched on earlier is sort of like isolation, you know We all feel isolated and it's this sort of for many of us who isolated and it's this sort of time where It's a mirage of connectedness And I think people feel even more isolated, but you know, especially with like the closure of like vital spaces You know, we mentioned one place that isn't around anymore with the the crowd and sort of that whole Station north ars district for for instance here So talk a bit about like version and how that's become sort of a vital space for connection a genuine connection in Baltimore and what's the impact that you've seen in being involved
Kotic_Couture: Again, very thankful um version just started I don't not out of nowhere because it was very intentional, but um, I used to I just I used to love to talk on the mic. I used to love to host and Trio nature used to host and I'd be like, can I can I get on the mic during your set? which turned into her being like you want to get on the mic during my set and then um, when she stopped the residency At auto bar and took it to the crown. She asked me, um You know, I was doing a party in the red room. She was doing a party in the blue room She's like, do you want to actually like be a part of ours and to be a host and I was like, yes So we're going into our eighth year now and it's been amazing to see The growth but also just like the maneuvering because we were solely at the crown and then when the crown closed it turned into like, okay Venues are closing left and right in the city. We already didn't have a lot but venues are closing left and right so it was It's really been a testament to our support. We just had version on saturday And it was sold out again, which is like I don't say that like I say that humbly because people literally can be anywhere.
They can spend their money. DC really isn't that far Almost any given weekend. There is a huge name D. J. And DC So to just have the continued support of versin is very It's crazy.
It's crazy. Um, but also One of the things of doing this with trill and sydney for so long I've come to learn that like I think We're as important to the community as the community is important to us It's been A nice to be able to see people grow in this space. It's been nice to see people Have comfort and just like have a place of of solace So I am humbled every month To see the love and support that we have and see the amount of people who Return and the amount of people who are like, hey, you have to come to this party. Um, I don't take any of it for granted. It's very Humbling is the only word I can that comes to mind like I'm very thankful for the community that that we've cultivated because we are very intentional and and we We have grown into everything that we wanted to be so I'm very I'm very thankful for the support along the way and I will say that we are one of the we now we have a lot of a lot of competition because it's a lot of amazing people in the city but I like to think that we have one of the um, you know, we have one of the best parties and to be Like three black queer women doing this is like We work hard so I'm thankful that people support us in the way that we do in the way that they do That's great.
Rob Lee: Thank you And that's sort of the it that's sort of it of the real questions I still got rapid fire questions for you. Okay, let's go. So this I guess I'm gonna give you the Precursor just putting your nerd hat for this part. Okay, the the questions are They're goofy. I'm like, I'm not a dad.
I do dad jokes. Just okay. That's good. Just rock with me here. Um, all right This is the first one. This is the If you wouldn't name it as one thing, right? Okay, where does your confidence come from? You you talked about being cocky Yeah, where's it come from?
Kotic_Couture: Um My imagination like if I'm being completely honest Okay, great It's it solely comes from okay. So a more I guess stream my answer I try to think now from the perspective of little me Um, because you know when you're a kid you have so much confidence and nobody can tell you anything Um, you know, I've had to go through a journey to be who I am So I would sit in my room and I'd be like if my life was different if I was born different I would do this and I would be this way and and once I transitioned I was like, well, wait, wait, wait I have the power like I can do whatever I want. So I really am just I do my best to make sure that baby me that used to hide in my room and Be free and be like, I wish I could wear this or I wish I could do this I'm just making sure that that little one feels seen and supported Um, and that's all I care about. So I just go out here with The blind confidence of a child.
You can't tell me nothing because At the end of the day you get one run in this world in this body with these thoughts and these experiences and I'm gonna milk this for all that all I can like y'all put me here if I gotta go through this I'm gonna milk it for all I can so that's that's just where my mind stays.
Rob Lee: I love that. That's great. Great. I'll look All right So this is this one is this one is goofy. This next question is goofy. Okay, so It's catechator Designed with care, right? Just the name designed with care and attention the most lit some might say many might say What would if there's another artist named Steve Shabby, what would Steve Shabby be? How would you define that person?
Kotic_Couture: Oh um Oh my god So what would Steve Shabby's like line be? Yeah Okay, uh, it's a little trolley. It's a little nerdy. That's fine. I have to think because I feel like I'm really like corny So I feel like I would definitely have to play off of The shabbiness Um, so what have to be like the The sharpest I would have to really refine it, but it would be in the line of like the sharpest It wouldn't be this but the sharpest shabby in the room I would find a way to make it like even though I'm shabby. I'm the sharpest shabby in the room So I would really think on that but it would be along those lines because even though I am shabby I'm the best shabby that you have
Rob Lee: seen That's all it's about I love it. All right. This is in the similar vein and this is the last one. Okay So, you know, you mentioned this this Aries enter. This is what I was talking about earlier.
This Aries energy Being honest. Yes, so So my next project, you know, it's gonna I need a I need a I need a score for you just based on the name alone Okay, a scale of one to ten if I came back and said look this podcast is now being Created by Bobby Bespoke Okay, so I'm going by now. I changed my name to Bobby Bespoke. No more Rob Lee's Bobby Bespoke. Okay. What is the name getting? What is the score that that name gets?
Kotic_Couture: I don't know that I would score it more that I would have questions.
Rob Lee: I think as a I think Aries I would have questions.
Kotic_Couture: Um Would the name still be truth in this art? With Bobby Bespoke, it probably would be.
Rob Lee: Yeah, actually, yeah Like a lot closer to Bobby Busce now. I'm sorry.
Kotic_Couture: Yeah, I would ask who the hell is Bobby. That would be my first question I'm gonna. Okay. So who who the hell is Bobby?
Rob Lee: Honestly, I would have to research it because if I seen that come across my email, I would think of a scam I'd be like, okay, somebody scamming this is just something that somebody threw together Okay, um, I would have to do some research on it because I really would need to know who the hell is Bobby
Rob Lee: This is a true Aries So the rebrand is not gonna happen.
Kotic_Couture: Um, no The rebrand is fine. The rebrand is fine. Um Maybe you know, because I've seen bespoke work. I've seen it work I don't know about Bobby Bobby. Yeah, it just sounds too for me. I would be like this sounds made up This this sounds made up person But it does sound like a fake person to me But that's also because like I'm a bitch that listens to true True crime podcast in my free time. So I always think that somebody's lying about something or there's always something deeper going on So that's just me, you know, take it with a grain of salt, but that's my honest reaction Who the hell is Bobby?
Rob Lee: It sounds like a creative player from like an NBA Career experience or like a wwe creative player.
Kotic_Couture: Yeah, I was gonna say it definitely is given no mercy Like you are allowed to create your character That um, and that's fine. You know, that's fine. We all love an n64 moment But I would have questions on who the hell is Bobby. Look, we're all living imagine This is true.
Rob Lee: This is everything is made up So so with that, um, that's it. You're all you're all thoughts. See you all made me rethink some choices I was gonna workshop that name a little bit.
Kotic_Couture: Maybe I think if you branded it first though, it would be fine You would just have to really rebrand it first, but I think I don't know your name holds a lot of weight Well, thank you.
Rob Lee: That's that's great to hear especially for someone such as yourself. Um, So that's kind of it and for all of the questions and I want to give you sort of the space in these final moments to just You know As cocky as you would like Share with the folks so final detail social media website all of that good stuff.
Kotic_Couture: The floor is yours Humbly, I would like to say I just I really do Um, I love bottom one city. I will Uh, just say thank you, you know, you can follow me on all my socials Other than spelling things wrong.
I'm very simple. Uh, all socials is chaotic k o t i c Couture like fashion. Um, but yeah, I just If you like the interview give the music a listen if you don't like the music, that's fine If you like it, you know, tell somebody about it come to a dj set But I just I'm very thankful to have been made in bottom more city And I think that we have some of the most talented people in the world and I'm happy to be Among them. So if you want to add me to a list of your phase, I would love that but all of my socials and everything under chaotic tour and More to come I keep trying to retire, but nobody will let me I feel like jay-z in the black album era and you know That's fine.
Rob Lee: That's fine There you have it folks I want to again think chaotic tour for coming back onto the podcast and tap it back in with us and for chaotic I'm rob lee saying that there's art culture and community and an around your neck of the woods You just have to look for it
