00;00;11;08 - 00;00;37;22
Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth. In this art, your source of conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter. And I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with a professor and painter whose practice subverts classic comic book narratives, painting directly over vintage issues to confront issues such as police brutality, racial profiling, and systemic racism, through a present day social lens.
00;00;37;24 - 00;00;50;00
Rob Lee
We last spoke back in early 2022, and I'm eager to run it back and chat again with him. So please welcome back to the program. Kumasi J period, Barnett. Welcome back to the podcast.
00;00;50;02 - 00;01;02;14
Kumasi J. Barnett
Oh, thank you for having me. It's actually Kumasi J. Period. Barnett because my dad doesn't believe in middle names. It's a J with a period legally, which is great when you go to do government things.
00;01;02;16 - 00;01;19;09
Rob Lee
J with a period O might have to be the end of this, but I had to be the name of the episode. Actually. But, it's it's been a few years since you and I chat it before, and, so I'm eager to, to catch up. And we were we were talking we talked for about a half an hour before even in this mic.
00;01;19;09 - 00;01;23;04
Rob Lee
So that's that's wild. It's almost like a whole different podcast.
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Kumasi J. Barnett
I think that's the real podcast.
00;01;26;25 - 00;01;28;26
Rob Lee
Truth. It is art after dark. After the truth.
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Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah.
00;01;30;25 - 00;01;40;25
Rob Lee
But before we dive into the the deeper questions, I want to give you the space to to reintroduce yourself. It's been a few years. So, you know, reintroduce yourself to the listeners.
00;01;40;27 - 00;02;06;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. My name is Jake Barnett. I'm a painter. I'm from Turner Station. If you know where it is, you know where it is. I was born up in Providence, Rhode Island, but only spent three years up there. Grew up here, College Park. Oh, community college back when it was done. Community college before College Park and then the Ohio State University.
00;02;07;00 - 00;02;17;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
I oh, you know, I'm just a guy who likes to paint. So also, professor of drawing and painting at Penn State University.
00;02;17;25 - 00;02;19;02
Rob Lee
Nice.
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Kumasi J. Barnett
They like when I say that.
00;02;22;07 - 00;02;27;18
Rob Lee
I like that, I like that, so. So go Nittany Lions. Nittany Lions, I guess,
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Kumasi J. Barnett
I mean, yeah, they play football.
00;02;30;02 - 00;02;35;16
Rob Lee
I was going basketball because I'm a black man, you know, football, football as well. And also we're pretty good at that as well.
00;02;35;18 - 00;02;39;25
Kumasi J. Barnett
They do find that basketball but they play football.
00;02;39;28 - 00;02;41;28
Rob Lee
They play football.
00;02;42;00 - 00;02;42;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
They play football.
00;02;42;22 - 00;03;09;26
Rob Lee
It so so thank you for that. And it's you know so this is that our second round. And I like to look at you know the conversations especially in this season of I'm going to say an opportunity to fix maybe things where I was not particularly good in in terms of an interview or continue a conversation. Right. So one of the things I was curious about for you, you know, art is your guide to paints, right?
00;03;10;02 - 00;03;16;24
Rob Lee
So did art come easy to you? Was it something that was a hard earned craft?
00;03;16;26 - 00;03;39;21
Kumasi J. Barnett
So it's funny because my mom just gave me a bumper drawing that me and my brother did when we were tiny. And my mom did, like, not so much advertising, but design when she was little. And my dad said he used to be a writer. So I drew from whatever I can remember. And it's something that I, I thought, like, everybody could do and everybody does.
00;03;39;23 - 00;04;04;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
So it's not that it came easy, like being an artist is hard. Doing and making art has never been hard for me. Like doing paperwork difficult, making artwork all day, every day. So, you know, but I'm a painter, which is different. Yeah. Like people draw. People are artists who do multiple different fields. But I'm a painter.
00;04;05;01 - 00;04;07;21
Kumasi J. Barnett
I see things in terms of color.
00;04;07;23 - 00;04;39;27
Rob Lee
That make sense. And I think in it, you know, making it the that, the making it the distinguishing those, those two things like making art is one thing, but being an artist, that's something else in I hear, I hear in some I think it was the, I think it was the war of art and not the art of war, but the war of art and the the authors talking about sort of the and I think this is also the death of the artist to this idea of the work that goes into being the artist, being the writer, doing all of that stuff.
00;04;39;27 - 00;04;59;03
Rob Lee
It's like, I'm not even interested in that. Like I got to go to the social engagements, the read along, the, you know, to spending these, these sort of time sucks. So I think that is a thing that even this thing that I do, I don't know, like I like doing the podcast. I like having the conversations, doing the thing.
00;04;59;03 - 00;05;03;23
Rob Lee
But the stuff that goes into doing the next thing. I'm not a fan.
00;05;03;26 - 00;05;29;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, yeah, it's sort of like, you really like being you, but you don't like, like people like you, right? When I meet somebody like me, they kind of annoying. And I don't know why. It's probably the things that I feel bad about myself, but I really enjoy being who I am. Yeah. And I really enjoy making art. And sometimes I'll finish a painting and be so excited because I finished it.
00;05;29;29 - 00;05;37;14
Kumasi J. Barnett
And that allows me to make more paintings. But like the other stuff, I'm not so, so.
00;05;37;14 - 00;05;58;00
Rob Lee
And that this is this is sort of a nice follow up to that. The when did you decide to pursue art as a a career? Now, I understand that, you know, it's not only just, you know, art as a career, but also as the education component. And that's connected. And, you know, with that, you know, when you chose it.
00;05;58;00 - 00;06;03;17
Rob Lee
But what were some of the other like, choices that factored into and continue to factor into this career?
00;06;03;20 - 00;06;36;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
And oh, so in 2001, I think, I got fired from my job. The great moment I engineered it, I got fired, got unemployment, and was like basically just floating in a tube on a river that was moving really slow. I had no direction whatsoever, but I, I knew I didn't want to do that anymore. Right. I came out from like doing installations, and this guy was like, oh man, you only got to do this 20 more years and you're all set.
00;06;36;28 - 00;07;01;01
Kumasi J. Barnett
And that was the time where I couldn't work there anymore. And so, I think around 2002, the end of 2002, I was like, what am I going to do? And I broke down everything that I'm good at and everything I enjoy. And it came between math and art and I figured if I was doing something math related, I would still be painting.
00;07;01;04 - 00;07;25;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
So why not do the thing that I would do no matter what? And that's the scariest thing that you can do. Because if you fail at what you have always loved and always wanted to do, you don't have a thing anymore. But the fix for that was instead of looking at like one year, five year, ten year, I was looking at 40 years, of looking at 50 years.
00;07;26;00 - 00;07;51;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
And if at 50 years it didn't work, would I still be content with that? Yes. And then I painted the worst painting I've ever painted and was like, you know, you don't need enough. You need to go back to school because this is this is terrible. You need to think about, what you're doing, and you need to learn more about the conceptual ideas that you have, because that wasn't it.
00;07;51;26 - 00;08;06;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
And yeah, that's what brought me back to college art, mostly the, the art history in college part. And I was lucky because the art teachers are really good. But the art historian focused a lot on African-American art specifically at the time I went back.
00;08;06;14 - 00;08;36;21
Rob Lee
Yeah. So what continues to play a role and factor into the decision? And let me step back a little bit, actually, I like the time game better because I've been playing a bit with that. My myself, you know, again, these, these different founders books I was referencing before we got started. And one of the things that that pops up is, you know, just the way that Michael Jordan kind of perceived time, you know, was it was a thing that would come up in conversation.
00;08;36;23 - 00;08;55;26
Rob Lee
And mostly when he got older and it was this mindfulness thing, right, of, hey, you know, like I remember they won the six championship listening to this being recalled in one of these, biographies. And I think it's also in The Last Dance and someone's asking, are you guys going to go for seventh? And he's just like the moment, like right here, let's stay in this.
00;08;55;26 - 00;09;23;01
Rob Lee
And and then sort of such conversations he would talk about like I think he was maybe 60 at the time, sort of like, hey, what am I going to worry about? What's on Wednesday when today is Monday? I only have so many Mondays left. And I think we kind of try to rush through the thing. And other times we have these sort of like five year plans, and maybe that's not long enough to kind of stick out in and get sort of good at it.
00;09;23;04 - 00;09;32;05
Rob Lee
Maybe thinking in this 40 year, this decade sort of mindset, but also just kind of playing with how we're perceiving time as a relates to a particular goal. I think it's important.
00;09;32;07 - 00;09;57;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, definitely. Like because today you have to do the work that will build up to be a ten year, 20 year, 30 year. So you're focused on right now but looking way back and if you, you know, if you look backwards, you can see how far you've come like it's like a something it's like a plant growing right?
00;09;57;27 - 00;10;23;11
Kumasi J. Barnett
If you're looking at it every day, you don't realize how big it's gotten. But if you leave and you come back three months from now, you're like, whoa. I think he's gotten huge. Was there a lot of sun? Was there a lot of, water that happened? So. So yeah, I'm a long term focused. So. And I'm old, so I can do a year of, like, just ridiculousness on my head at this point.
00;10;23;14 - 00;10;26;02
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. If I gotta suffer for a year, no problem.
00;10;26;04 - 00;10;33;02
Rob Lee
You made it sound like someone that's in a movie that's dealing with a prison sentence is like, I did my nickel. I did it on my head.
00;10;33;05 - 00;11;02;15
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, and that's a 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. You know how that it. I'm not in it right now, but, I, I've worked some jobs where I be like, okay, this is because you, we don't want to be unemployed and you want to keep your wife, like, who was a lovely, lovely woman. But, you know, it's the funny thing about my wife specifically, I speak for y'all, you know, y'all partners out there, but she doesn't understand.
00;11;02;17 - 00;11;20;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
If I was asleep when she left, right? And I did some art stuff, I did some, like, I made a really good painting or really good strides on a painting. I don't know that I could finish it while she was at work, but by the time she came back, I'm on the couch. A lot of stuff happened in between there.
00;11;20;19 - 00;11;27;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, but I didn't leave the house. You know, you only have three months left.
00;11;27;25 - 00;11;29;07
Rob Lee
That's legit. Well.
00;11;29;09 - 00;11;30;17
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah.
00;11;30;20 - 00;11;48;10
Rob Lee
So and so. One of the things that I do when I'm balancing because I'm still doing both, still doing the day job, I'm still doing some sort of dance and there's a constant recalibration and consideration of just the things that I have to do. You have a social life, you have a family life, you have all of these different things.
00;11;48;13 - 00;12;04;05
Rob Lee
What are the what are the considerations you're making when you're making those balances? You were you were touching on that a bit there of like if you have a partner, you have a wife and it's like, can I gotta get this done? It's like, I gotta figure this out. I can't just be on a couch all day.
00;12;04;08 - 00;12;27;18
Kumasi J. Barnett
The family is like, the family is first for me because my kid is young, so I want to be around them as much as possible while they're young. They don't listen. That's cool. But, like. Like during Covid, I had them every day, and we were going to the park every day, and we had a schedule every day.
00;12;27;18 - 00;12;49;20
Kumasi J. Barnett
We did tons of things that they will not remember, but I will remember. So I'll remember this time, and I'll remember when they're young and hopefully they'll remember some of it. After that it's, you know, it's family. But. I don't have to plan when I work in terms of painting because I will just paint. That's never been a problem for me.
00;12;49;24 - 00;13;22;15
Kumasi J. Barnett
So it's it's finding something that allows me to paint. I don't like jobs where I come home too tired to do the actual activity that I want to do. That's why I can't work in in galleries specifically and like, in art related fields. Right? I can't be a, for Parador or work in a museum because it takes the fun of art out of me, and it takes the I have to do art related stuff at work.
00;13;22;15 - 00;13;26;04
Kumasi J. Barnett
And when I come home, it feels like I'm still in that.
00;13;26;07 - 00;13;50;20
Rob Lee
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's totally legit. Where, you know, that was touching on me before we got started. And I've mentioned this podcast before, I've done the education thing and I try to during that however many weeks that I'm doing it, there are no podcasts being recorded because it's like the brain work that's there now. And and I didn't properly anticipate it.
00;13;50;20 - 00;14;13;07
Rob Lee
I underestimated initially of like, oh, I'm using my brain the entire time in this way versus just doing. And I don't want to cross the streams because I encountered that sort of here. So like you touched on the Covid times, right. And I remember this where I'm recording it right now, where we're having this conversation at right now.
00;14;13;07 - 00;14;36;02
Rob Lee
It's the home studio and, you know, we have these this idea of like third spaces and all of that. And I just remember I would do my day job here, and then I would do my recording here. And then those things started to converge. And I was like, this is just like a long workday. I do this at the end of the workday, and it's like, I need to make those a little bit more desperate and distinct because they start rubbing up on each other.
00;14;36;02 - 00;14;53;25
Rob Lee
And I don't want to misidentify sort of the stuff that's required to make this work, you know, salary, insurance, all of that stuff with overhead with like, I look forward to the recording piece. I don't want that to feel like it's just one long 10 to 12 hour day. Yeah.
00;14;53;27 - 00;15;21;00
Kumasi J. Barnett
Being an educator is different between middle school, high school and college. College courses are not so much repeatable, but like there's only so many ways to teach figure drawing. Right. And after you've taught it 2 or 3 times, you've got a basic structure for it and you're really adjusting to the students that you have in class.
00;15;21;03 - 00;15;41;01
Kumasi J. Barnett
Middle school, all day, every day like that is a load. High school can be a load, but it is a lot more stressful than, some of those other classes. So yeah, I don't think I could do again, I've done it. I think I could do it again.
00;15;41;03 - 00;15;59;18
Rob Lee
And it's like, you know, I was already like prepping it out and, you know, it was like after that first one, I had like, I think I had a recording and an interview with an artist that was West Coast based. I was really looking forward to talking to her, and I can feel I was nodding off in the conversation and and she gave me the grace.
00;15;59;18 - 00;16;05;22
Rob Lee
I was like, terrible. In this conversation. She was like, no, you were great. And I was just like, are you just saying that now?
00;16;05;22 - 00;16;22;23
Kumasi J. Barnett
You were probably so you're so good at it that you were probably on autopilot, like you were driving home at the end of the night and you made your way home and you didn't realize how you got home. So, like, you can do it, but you just weren't as present as you expect yourself to be, right?
00;16;22;25 - 00;16;43;20
Rob Lee
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. So I want to move into this this next question. Sort of when I think of your work and it's, you know, obviously it's it's thought provoking when I think of sort of the, the comic component and then those pieces. So then this kind of goes into a little bit of what we were talking about earlier.
00;16;43;20 - 00;17;00;21
Rob Lee
Definitely the following question. But what is it about your work that continues to fascinate you both as an artistic act, but also as an act of protest, because you're making making people think. And, you know, I think that's really important.
00;17;00;23 - 00;17;36;13
Kumasi J. Barnett
Artistically, it's interesting because all of the imagery that I'm, re appropriating maybe or remixing or, redefining is different. Like there's so many different artists, there's so many different, ways that they're drawn, whether it's like 50s and 60s or like 70s and 80s or 90s, they're all very different kinds of art. And I really enjoy the process of taking these, like, imaginary stories and making them into true stories and making them into something that resonate.
00;17;36;15 - 00;18;01;04
Kumasi J. Barnett
And that leads to like the encounter that people have with it, where they're like, oh, this is oh, wait, okay, wait. Whoa, whoa. Caught me off guard with that. Oh, these are deep. What? Wait, what's this one like? Like, you know, people say you don't. You shouldn't talk about, like what? Politics. Sex and religion at the dinner.
00;18;01;06 - 00;18;25;26
Kumasi J. Barnett
Well, I'm not coming, because those are the interesting thing. Like, what are we going to talk about? Like, I'm not going to talk about sports with you because, like, I don't care. I do like, but I don't care. Like, I don't care who wins the NBA championship right now. Like, I don't have a team. So, like, we can talk, but like, I want to talk about what's going to get your dad mad.
00;18;25;28 - 00;18;45;02
Rob Lee
Yeah, but it's it's that thing where it's just like, if I'm taking these three things out already of topics, then just like I'm the same way, it's like, all right. And I find myself in any of these functions. I'm really quiet. And then as soon as someone says something, I was like, oh, I've been sitting here thinking about this the whole time.
00;18;45;02 - 00;18;58;06
Rob Lee
Here you go. Boom, boom, boom. And I find either everyone gets quiet or because it's not like I'm just popping off. It's more so like, I've thought this through and I have a dissertation for you.
00;18;58;08 - 00;19;01;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. Let's talk about this.
00;19;01;09 - 00;19;13;19
Rob Lee
And it's sort of like the kind of polite topics. It's like, oh, the weather. No one likes that conversation. What are you watching on TV? The same three things that everyone else is watching, like Severinsen, maybe the Last of Us, like, what are we doing?
00;19;13;21 - 00;19;24;21
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, it's what came out in the last two weeks that everybody said was good. That was talk about what's really happening. Like, shit is fucked. Like you talk about it and yeah.
00;19;24;23 - 00;19;40;07
Rob Lee
And because I like to troll, I like to take the thing that people would talk about and like, hey, man, you got to see sinners. Yes. You know that poem? She spit in his mouth and he would talk about coups and stuff. Yeah. My favorite part of the movie, I like to intersect, like inject that. They don't they don't want to talk about it.
00;19;40;10 - 00;19;42;11
Rob Lee
So the racial dynamic, just like, let's.
00;19;42;14 - 00;19;48;11
Kumasi J. Barnett
Talk about power. Let's talk about power dynamics and how she can flip that. So yeah.
00;19;48;13 - 00;19;51;26
Rob Lee
It's just like we're going to get to the conversation I want one way or the other.
00;19;51;29 - 00;20;03;14
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. And that awkward pause when you say that and you just pause and you just like you wait for the response to like, quiet, say it.
00;20;03;17 - 00;20;24;16
Rob Lee
This is one of the things where I joke with my partner on occasion about this of like, I'm in that like 85, right? I'm in that sort of like stage of like and I was hanging out with the Gen Zers and she was like, absolutely you were. Because it's the same sort of thing. You don't trust anything, and you're like, oh, no, this is the thing you don't want to say, yeah, I'm going to dive into it even deeper.
00;20;24;19 - 00;20;44;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. And I am a Gen Xer, so like, I'm just I'm here for it. Like, yeah. Like, okay, we're going to read this statement on, land appropriation. Like, let's talk about it. Let's talk about how we're going to read the statement, but we're not going to give the shit back. And we feel kind of bad because we don't feel bad about it.
00;20;44;25 - 00;20;48;13
Kumasi J. Barnett
So what are we doing like yeah.
00;20;48;13 - 00;21;10;19
Rob Lee
What was the actual activity. And kind of you know as in it's I encounter some of these things and I especially when I'm going back through and doing, you know the guests I wanted to have back on I think in having that refinement of like, you want some weird stuff in a previous interview or your work is taking a sort of weird turn.
00;21;10;22 - 00;21;28;03
Rob Lee
As far as some of the guests that really didn't fit what I was looking for, and I was just thinking about it, I was like, oh, I'm at that stage. I'm at that stage of not talking about this sort of polite conversation, this sort of it's not vapid, but it's it's not quite what it is. It is it's lacking the authenticity.
00;21;28;03 - 00;21;47;03
Rob Lee
And I'm not trying to, like, be a troll or be to agitate or. But it's just like I'm iconoclastic is sort of how I go about things. And if I'm unable to have that conversation or if my conversation partner isn't down to take that ride with me, that's like, really, where are we going to go with it? And we're going to have a very flat conversation.
00;21;47;06 - 00;22;09;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, but the conversation that you want to talk about, you need somebody who wants to talk about it and like it's fun. And if you want to talk about like the weather, that's cool. I mean, it's the same whether it was last year. Okay. Like, I don't I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. About this time. Pollen.
00;22;09;10 - 00;22;11;00
Kumasi J. Barnett
Oh. Got it. Hate it.
00;22;11;03 - 00;22;16;14
Rob Lee
Yeah. So when we when we screwed a global woman, right. Oh, no, we can't talk about that.
00;22;16;16 - 00;22;34;25
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. Think the fun part about that is when you talk about climate change. So people are like, well, the earth has been here. Yeah. But we won't be able to live here. And then, like, we can go to another planet. If we could go to another planet, why don't we just fix this one? Like, what are we doing?
00;22;34;27 - 00;22;44;22
Rob Lee
I mean, I would take it to the pop culture lens, like, you seen Wall-E, right? That's really what we have happening. Oh, yeah. We're going to get there.
00;22;44;24 - 00;23;12;03
Kumasi J. Barnett
It's like there are there things that we don't have solutions for right? There are things that we can't fix yet, but these things we can fit and we know how to fix them, and we know the steps to make them better. Yeah. What is it that stops you from doing that? Like what? Like there's a reason laws are written in blood, right?
00;23;12;05 - 00;23;27;29
Kumasi J. Barnett
So regulations are written in blood. The reason we restrict people from polluting is because people die, you know. So why are we talking about unless we can do whatever they want.
00;23;28;02 - 00;23;52;15
Rob Lee
And I think at this stage the where we're at, from a, from a culture specifically in the US with the oligarchs and all that different stuff, you know, it should be very apparent to people to not even play this sort of like second guessing, soft pedaling. That's not what that is happening. Live in it. There's no subtleness with it.
00;23;52;17 - 00;24;01;23
Rob Lee
And I just remember, you know, so my birthday, January 20th. So, you know, I was like, great birthday because I.
00;24;01;25 - 00;24;02;01
Kumasi J. Barnett
Know.
00;24;02;01 - 00;24;06;07
Rob Lee
That I was having a great day. I was like, oh, so this is not happening.
00;24;06;09 - 00;24;07;14
Kumasi J. Barnett
And oh yeah.
00;24;07;16 - 00;24;29;12
Rob Lee
You know, some of the the thoughts I had, I remember going back even in I'm moving to this next question because, you know, but going going back to November and I just remember going to sleep at all of the sort of noise that's there, it being turned into sort of if you don't do this, if you don't vote this way and blah, blah, blah, then it means this.
00;24;29;12 - 00;24;54;03
Rob Lee
It's like, well, it doesn't. It's just some person made this choice. It's maybe at the informed choice, maybe it's an informed choice. But I remember to try to quell myself because of all of that noise. You can't escape it if you're on social media. Can't escape it because everyone was thinking about it right? I just remember saying to myself, if we're a good country, if we're a serious country, we'll move in this direction.
00;24;54;05 - 00;25;08;00
Rob Lee
And if we're not, then we're not this type of country and want to sleep. With that being sort of the last thought that I had. And I remember waking up in the morning, I was like, oh, we're not a country. And then, oh, that was just that.
00;25;08;02 - 00;25;12;17
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. And my birthday's November 11th, so it just happened.
00;25;12;19 - 00;25;14;26
Rob Lee
00;25;14;28 - 00;25;45;14
Kumasi J. Barnett
The thing that the thing that not is interesting to me, but that I keep thinking about is when people say they voted against their interests or people voted against their interests, they didn't their interest were, was what we have now, you know, this is their interest, even the people who are affected by what is happening right now, they voted for the oppression of other people.
00;25;45;20 - 00;26;14;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
They voted for the oligarchs because one day they will be one, apparently. They voted for, I don't even know how to like. I don't know if it's fascism. Who they voted for. King. Because if you ask them right now, if everything that is happening right now, you knew about it in November, that vote wouldn't change, right?
00;26;14;24 - 00;26;36;15
Kumasi J. Barnett
The people who voted for this are fine with what is hackable. That's who America is. Yeah, right. And I think I think, you know, I mean, we knew it was like this. You, we, we had a dream that we believed it could be different, but we knew it was this deep experience that. And we're back to this.
00;26;36;18 - 00;26;55;18
Rob Lee
And I think if you have a enough time with it, there's this video and I was at, City College back in the day where this was I think, 2000. And I just remember I had no media training. I'm like, not even looking at the the camera. It was tempting to interview me. Rippy. And he was just like.
00;26;55;18 - 00;27;20;06
Rob Lee
So what are your thoughts about the election? I was coming out of American government class. My head is down. I was like, yeah, man, who have we choose? You know, in this next lesson? That's what we had to deal with. You know, I'm thinking I'm being insightful as like a 15 year old. But it was then just having some degree of awareness and, you know, and it's it's very simple, but it's just like it's sort of that notion of you made your bed now, now sleep in it.
00;27;20;06 - 00;27;22;16
Rob Lee
And no, no backseats, you know.
00;27;22;19 - 00;27;24;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
No breakfast.
00;27;24;15 - 00;27;43;22
Rob Lee
So sort of expounding on that a little bit, to what I was sharing with you earlier back and, September of last year, I moderated this panel on the intersection of cartoons, comics, and, social justice at, Cartoon Crossroads Columbus. And it sparked a great discussion. Some some friendships came out of it. All that good stuff.
00;27;43;25 - 00;27;59;25
Rob Lee
So for for you who works in this sort of lane of like, remixing, reinterpreting, like comics and popular media more broadly, why are they such, you know, powerful tools in addressing social consciousness?
00;27;59;27 - 00;28;32;04
Kumasi J. Barnett
I think there's, not naivete. Okay. There's a certain lightness and airiness and playfulness with the medium. Right? It's hard to take somebody dressed up in spandex who jumps out a window. Seriously. So, like, a lot of them you can project yourself onto. That's the the key with Spider-Man complete coverage. So unless the suit is ripped, he could be anyone, right?
00;28;32;07 - 00;29;02;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
And we can protect ourselves on them. And so when we get to love those characters and love like the idea of those characters, you can have those characters speak to social justice, speak to an ideal world, and speak to the current world in a way that certain other things can't without having the pressure of, I don't know if it's literature, but the pressure of history in a different manner.
00;29;02;27 - 00;29;11;05
Rob Lee
Yeah, I think of and you mentioned I think of, that that bit about why Batman's mouth is exposed.
00;29;11;08 - 00;29;17;13
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. Oh, I'll say the joke. I love the joke. Why did Batman mask not cover his whole face?
00;29;17;16 - 00;29;19;08
Rob Lee
Why?
00;29;19;10 - 00;29;49;26
Kumasi J. Barnett
So the cops know he's white? Literally. And you know the question. Just like, it has to come up at some point while you're talking to people like the idea that the richest man in the city, let's say Baltimore, is jumping out of, like, a car to beat up a guy who just stole, I don't know, $2,000 worth of jewelry from a store is insane.
00;29;49;28 - 00;30;19;21
Kumasi J. Barnett
It is like it's insane that the car and the things that he's wearing on his person is worth ten times whatever the thieves just took out of Gotham Central Bank. Well, what do we do in? What are we doing? And you can't tell me that there's some different moral standard that he has because he's a vigilante, right? But he the only thing that allows him to do this is his money.
00;30;19;23 - 00;30;22;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. Then we we. What are we doing?
00;30;22;08 - 00;30;41;06
Rob Lee
I, I like when the, when the creator or a particular thing kind of like throw shots at how it's being used. I think of the The Punisher logo and it's like, no, not rocking with that. And I like that. That was lightweight. Incorporated in the most recent season of Daredevil of like.
00;30;41;08 - 00;30;42;18
Kumasi J. Barnett
I think seven yet.
00;30;42;21 - 00;30;43;23
Rob Lee
Yeah.
00;30;43;25 - 00;30;47;11
Kumasi J. Barnett
So no no no no spoilers. I.
00;30;47;14 - 00;31;04;03
Rob Lee
But the it's that thing where we, we see it in IRL, you know, it's just you see some dude's pickup truck and it's like, all right, we get it. You know, it's a blue line and a Punisher skull. It's like, settle down. We we we get it. You, you read half of the page of a book, but then the creators, like, I'm really banging with that.
00;31;04;03 - 00;31;10;09
Rob Lee
This is not used for that purpose. And I like when they just kind of disavow that nonsense.
00;31;10;12 - 00;31;40;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. I mean, I think the thing with The Punisher is they don't want the repercussions of their actions. And the fact that. Yeah. And especially with cops and the Punisher, like what do you do in what rate your job is to enforce laws whether you believe in them or not. And now you don't want to enforce the law because you don't believe in one.
00;31;40;08 - 00;31;44;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
That's no different than not enforcing anymore at all.
00;31;44;14 - 00;31;51;13
Rob Lee
Right? Like I'm being I'm being selective of this sort of duty to dot, dot dot.
00;31;51;15 - 00;32;08;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. You don't get to be selective. That's what's the real problem with like how the executive branch is acting right now. Like you don't get to be selective. The law is the law. We change the law. You follow the law.
00;32;08;08 - 00;32;29;05
Rob Lee
Otherwise it's this thing where in that same vein, where it's just like, what is the Constitution? And you start having those things. It's like, are you actively gaslighting a country? It's it's almost that and it's like, I thought we were all playing to our roles. We're not all playing the same game in the same system, but we do recognize it's a system, right?
00;32;29;05 - 00;32;36;14
Rob Lee
Oh no, no, no, that's not a system anymore. I don't even know what the Constitution is. I got the whole that. Yes.
00;32;36;16 - 00;32;58;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. But you know, this is what happens when you elect stupid people like, just because you're good at. I want to hear me out. I don't want to see this in offends people, but I don't really respect this respect. People in business. Like. Because that doesn't make the act of making money isn't like it. It's not really that impressive.
00;32;58;28 - 00;33;29;19
Kumasi J. Barnett
Like. Right. So you can sell widgets, right? You can sell houses. Cool. Really excited about that for you. But it doesn't really do anything. And the idea that if you can sell a ton of houses or you can do real estate deals, that you have expertise in other things is ridiculous. Like it's it's ridiculous for business people to think that because they are good at marketing they're smart right.
00;33;29;22 - 00;33;35;02
Kumasi J. Barnett
They're good at manipulation, they're intelligent. Those things are different.
00;33;35;04 - 00;33;58;29
Rob Lee
Well let me let me throw this in there. This is so my degree is in business and I did the extra marketing stuff and all of that stuff. I didn't follow the rules. I didn't believe in the rules. I got jaded with it early on, and I think with it, I'll even add this to because want an agreement with you where I think it's a lot of times you guys had some sort of tip, some sort of, first mover advantage.
00;33;58;29 - 00;34;15;07
Rob Lee
You got it before anyone else did. And this is the thing that shows that, well, why is it it's the same with like, rappers, right? Remember that period when rappers were saying they're rock stars and it's like, because you don't really like rap. So a lot of these business people, they like making money, but the money doesn't satisfy them.
00;34;15;07 - 00;34;35;01
Rob Lee
So they want to be podcaster. Suddenly they want to be artists and musicians because those are the people, or we are the people. I insert myself in here, that we're actually moving culture, I suppose, or we make people feel something. And regardless of how many millions or billions you have, you can't quite do that. It's just not a thing.
00;34;35;01 - 00;34;47;15
Rob Lee
It's an intangible and it's deprecated, and it's done in a way that, well, anyone can do this, not at this level. You are the Action Bronson kind of passively disrespecting Ghostface Killah.
00;34;47;17 - 00;35;10;13
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, and that's Bronson. It's fine. He's not going to kill it, but he's fine. Yeah, he's got some bars. But yeah, because but nothing fills the the empty hole inside of you, your soul that makes you feel like a complete person. But you can't stuff that full of money. You can't stuff that full of like, other people's respect.
00;35;10;15 - 00;35;34;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
You have to find a way to complete yourself in a way that is reasonable. And I can I can help you get to contentment. I can't help you get to happiness. That's way too far. But let's be honest. Like nobody cares about Steve Job, right? Like at one point, the world was in love with him because he was one of the richest people in the world.
00;35;34;09 - 00;35;35;21
Rob Lee
Right?
00;35;35;23 - 00;35;51;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
But what they were in love with was the money and the power. Yeah. And they wanted the money and the power. But I don't think there was a huge amount of respect there. Like.
00;35;51;09 - 00;36;08;08
Rob Lee
We play this idolatry game and I and I see it and, you know, some of these, these conversations when I, you know, talk to certain artists and, you know, some of the DM's or some of the replies back that I get are really wild of what the rejection looks like. And it's just like, you see how many followers I have.
00;36;08;08 - 00;36;27;23
Rob Lee
And I was like, oh, so that's replace money. And then you see the course. And granted, this has been five years of doing this podcast, and I'll see folks who kind of didn't pay homage early on because they thought that they believed in the sort of, I'm up here and I'm just like, I can't do your little, little smile podcast or what's your what's your budget?
00;36;27;23 - 00;36;43;28
Rob Lee
You know, an honorarium. So there's some people I just have not mentioned who have been on that wave. And it's interesting. And I go out of my way at times to say like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. You know, feel free to come on my podcast and talk about your work for an hour. That's fine. You know, this is just a commercial for you.
00;36;43;28 - 00;37;05;16
Rob Lee
But when they're down, when they come down because it's not baked in based on anything, they think that, well, I'm an artist or whatever, right? And they think that I've now crossed over because I got a little clout. I got a little money. Now I can do get that love. You know, my soul is now full. I know you have your bills paid, but that's as a temporary thing.
00;37;05;18 - 00;37;26;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
Which is a good place to be. Like, I like for people to have the book. I grew up poor and like the level you need to get to before you can start really considering things and thinking about things is your belly's full, your rent is paid, and you know you can do that next month. Yeah, right. Like I, I can order a pizza right now.
00;37;26;07 - 00;37;45;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
That's an amazing feeling for me. Like I can just put in a call and it'll come here. Like where I grew up, they wouldn't deliver here, but like food or come to my house and I can just, like, go out on the porch and get it for it. But like, if you're a musician and you're working at McDonald's.
00;37;45;09 - 00;38;12;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
And you've been working at McDonald's for five years and you've been playing guitar with your band and those five years, you're still a musician who's working at McDonald's. You're not a McDonald's worker, you're a musician who's working at McDonald's. And when that song hits, you're still a musician like that. That window isn't going to change how you feel about yourself.
00;38;12;10 - 00;38;13;08
Rob Lee
Right?
00;38;13;10 - 00;38;18;05
Kumasi J. Barnett
Like when you are alone with yourself, who are you?
00;38;18;07 - 00;38;52;29
Rob Lee
And then. And that's why when I do the that first question that I ask, could you reintroduce yourself? It's like, how do people introduce themselves? It's it's an opportunity for them to put out there what's the most important identity that they have? Because we all learn multiple things. And I think the, the point that previous thing I was getting that is that I think a lot of times folks will misidentify themselves and align themselves with sort of the, the CEO, the boss and have that sort of energy and rhythm when, as I mentioned before, that CEO, their boss, they know what the thing that you're doing because that's the thing that has the the celebrity
00;38;53;02 - 00;38;53;16
Rob Lee
component.
00;38;53;16 - 00;38;59;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. It's what all the, all the rich people want to be famous. All the famous people want to be rich, right? Right.
00;38;59;27 - 00;39;20;02
Rob Lee
And it's like you, it's almost this thing where we think about like, you know, sort of rockets, and we think about how other famous people have mentioned themselves in this sort of the sort of position where this person that's loved, I'm, I'm Da Vinci, I'm Tesla, I'm this, I'm that. And it's just like those people been dead for a long time.
00;39;20;02 - 00;39;23;00
Rob Lee
And he probably died poor, you know what I mean?
00;39;23;00 - 00;39;46;21
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, yeah. Some of our. Well, just because I'm like a an artist and a painter and love art history like some of the most famous painters that we know of today didn't make any money. But there's a flip side to that. Yeah. Where the most famous painters of their day, who sold the most artwork, we don't even mention.
00;39;46;23 - 00;40;08;03
Kumasi J. Barnett
Right. And you have to go deep into art history and study and see who was actually like, if we're talking to who was actually making money from the church, the Pope, the, what do you call those people? The merchant who was actually pulling in all that money? Yeah, but we don't even talk about we don't even look at their art.
00;40;08;05 - 00;40;16;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
But, like, I mean, the conclusion I came to was, you might as well do what you love and do it as much as you can, because.
00;40;16;14 - 00;40;43;10
Rob Lee
Like, so sort of this, this next thing I got this sort of next like two part question, but I also insert this and I saw this, this, this, this quote earlier is a piece of a is a stat and gives it gives us context. I think, they had Babe Ruth on there. They had, Frank Sinatra and they were just making the point of Frank Sinatra had like 70, 17% of the music that he put out actually charted as a hit.
00;40;43;12 - 00;41;08;25
Rob Lee
Babe Ruth only 8.5% of the hits that or the at bats that he had were home runs. And these are people known for hits, and they're known for home runs, so it's a very small percentage. So basically the point was like, keep plugging away, keep doing the thing that you do. If you have love for it or if you're doing or whatever the motivation is and you see eight, the half, 17%, you're like, oh, you are a failure.
00;41;08;28 - 00;41;12;09
Rob Lee
But it has to be something else that that drives, I suppose.
00;41;12;11 - 00;41;35;25
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. Well, especially in art. In art, you're not going to get the sale. Concrete and that you get in other things. Right. So if I was working in business, I know whether or not this thing is going to sell. Right. If I am, working in accounting, I know whether the the numbers are going to make sense or they're not going to make sense.
00;41;36;00 - 00;41;56;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
At the end of the day, I can figure out, like, what your tax returns are, and that's done and it's finished. If I'm working in carpentry, as soon as the thing's built, it is built. You can tell if it's going to hold up like the bookshelf. You can tell like how well it was me. I don't I don't know if these are good or not yet.
00;41;57;01 - 00;42;17;00
Kumasi J. Barnett
Like, I'm too close to them. Like I have to finish them. I have to put them away and I might come back to them. And the ones that I really thought were good aren't any good. I don't know if I attack a new problem whether there will be a finite solution. Yeah, like I have to live in that exploration.
00;42;17;00 - 00;42;24;05
Kumasi J. Barnett
And that's the most fun part. Like the exploration of finding the new problems, the new issues.
00;42;24;07 - 00;42;40;11
Rob Lee
I think I talk about all the time and, you know, artists, creative folks, people who are innovative in their thinking, they're they're problem solvers. You know, like, I, I find myself often I'm like, man, I'm really hooked on this one question. And this is like, you got to find a way to get around this. And it's like, but I want to know this.
00;42;40;11 - 00;43;04;11
Rob Lee
And there are other times where I have the questions, I send them over and it's just like, we're just like, we're just riffing. It just turns into an improv session and it's just sort of like, and I say this in the classes that I teach, it's like finding the right tool for the job. Or have you like, I might have this type of recorder for this environment, that tape recorder for that environment, but it's sort of like, like figured it out as I go along.
00;43;04;13 - 00;43;23;26
Rob Lee
But it's always also rooted in this idea of like, am I good at this? Is this even worthwhile? And it's just like, I'm terrible, but it's like, I'm going to keep going at it, you know, keep putting those those strokes of the brush or, you know, keep turning that, that page to maybe, you know, find something. But it it keeps me, keeps me curious.
00;43;23;29 - 00;43;34;06
Rob Lee
So I want to move into these, these next two and these final two questions before I go to the rat fire. So black artist, you're black. I'm a black man. You're a black man. Says no man.
00;43;34;07 - 00;43;38;13
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, well, I'm mixed, actually. I'm half black, half African American.
00;43;38;16 - 00;43;45;21
Rob Lee
I, I just, you know, I, I try to think how, but I was like, you know, I'm just standard black.
00;43;45;23 - 00;44;05;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
You know, the last time I said, what was it my family like, you know, you find out one person from your family is from somewhere, and like, you go crazy. And I did that. And then black is my cousin, all right? Yeah. You're right. Right. Let me put that back in my pocket.
00;44;05;24 - 00;44;07;06
Rob Lee
Right.
00;44;07;09 - 00;44;08;23
Kumasi J. Barnett
You know, I'm from 30s.
00;44;08;26 - 00;44;17;17
Rob Lee
But I did the, What is it, the 23 and me, I was just it was like, it was like Egypt bikini. And I was like, I don't know.
00;44;17;19 - 00;44;22;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
Black mixed with black. Right? Black mixed with noir.
00;44;22;09 - 00;44;25;18
Rob Lee
It's like the the cheekbones say this.
00;44;25;20 - 00;44;26;08
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah.
00;44;26;11 - 00;44;47;04
Rob Lee
But as a, as a, as a black artists like making socially conscious work. What kind of barriers do you encounter like when you're navigating sort of the, the, the art world? Like I have a sense. So based on sort of the conversation that we're having or we've, that we've had and sort of just the general take, but what are the barriers that you encounter?
00;44;47;04 - 00;44;50;16
Rob Lee
What are the challenges that you've encountered that kind of stick out?
00;44;50;18 - 00;45;22;05
Kumasi J. Barnett
Well, I mean, there's sort of like a parallel art world, right? Is, what people think of the conventional art world. And then there's sort of like a black parallel art world to it. And there are real museums, institutions, galleries are scared. And especially since, like November, super scared. And it seems to be changing a little bit now.
00;45;22;08 - 00;45;56;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
But like I see a lot of things that were happening in November dried up. You like, it was like you turn the lights on and like going away. There's no I don't know what to do. And then the talk of the, did that in addition to that is always an issue. Another issue is the pop ness and the comic book part of it is sometimes hard for, for like, museums to really understand what's happening.
00;45;56;24 - 00;46;16;14
Kumasi J. Barnett
And you know what? I can't go for a good fight. So it's like that can be an issue, but I want to talk about the problem or issue with it. But in the same sense, I have been lucky to find people who are really interested in talking about those conversations and having like that platform and showing that stuff.
00;46;16;14 - 00;46;34;11
Kumasi J. Barnett
So like, I have been able to find people who are more engaged with social conscious things because it scares off the people who are not engaged. And that's a blessing. And, you know, I really like being black, so I'm here for it.
00;46;34;14 - 00;46;36;13
Rob Lee
Absolutely.
00;46;36;16 - 00;46;40;26
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, I, I really like being black. It's, you know.
00;46;40;28 - 00;46;45;29
Rob Lee
You do the fest ups on the I know I know it's real I know there's drew. Yeah.
00;46;46;02 - 00;47;04;10
Kumasi J. Barnett
It's an interesting thing because like I think we share the, the voice thing. Like my mom is from Rhode Island. She's so proud of it. So she wouldn't let me, talk with an accent when I came back in the house. So, like, I don't have the translation accent, but it will slip out when I get really excited.
00;47;04;10 - 00;47;13;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
And my wife was like, what was that from? Oh, like, that's that's from Curtis because she's from PG County. I'm like, that's a, that's Turner's my bad.
00;47;14;01 - 00;47;26;13
Rob Lee
My bad is only certain words for me. My, my girl mentioned this. He's she's from like, she's from C from Brooklyn. She's from New York. And she was like there's this orange thing. I was like, look, I mean, that's like a lot on it. And but.
00;47;26;20 - 00;47;26;22
Kumasi J. Barnett
It.
00;47;26;27 - 00;47;51;03
Rob Lee
It's that, it's that, it's almost a chameleon thing where I'll go to different places and they can't quite put their finger on it. And it's only certain things in degree of excitement there. But also if I'm around like, let's say, you know, I was touching on earlier, you know, being in New York or what have you for when Air Fest and if there's like another Baltimore in there, it's just like, yeah, we're it's just magnets.
00;47;51;03 - 00;47;53;16
Rob Lee
It just comes together. Yeah.
00;47;53;19 - 00;48;08;27
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, definitely. And I think it was when I said Baltimore City, she said, oh, you said that real lazy. And I was like, oh, because I'm tired right now. So just so I said it correctly. She's like, no, but you don't pronounce the T. Yeah. So that correctly.
00;48;08;29 - 00;48;12;08
Rob Lee
Yeah. Yes. It's a D there. Just so you know. Yeah.
00;48;12;11 - 00;48;13;02
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah.
00;48;13;04 - 00;48;32;26
Rob Lee
So so here's the last, last one. And you know, when you think of, you know, through, through your work, right. Is there a project that really pops up or one of your works that really pops up that's left you with the most pride or like, satisfaction? Because, you know, people ask me this all the time, like, what's your favorite episode?
00;48;32;26 - 00;48;49;29
Rob Lee
And I was like, I've done almost 900 of them. There are a handful that stick out and they have like, it's an opportunity to tell stories, right? It's it's that's the thing for me. And it has a uniqueness there. And it sticks out because of that. And if I'm being, you know, sort of corny about it, but it's it's a lot of truth in it.
00;48;49;29 - 00;49;08;12
Rob Lee
I'll say all of them are my favorite episode, because I'm able to connect with folks and be able to perhaps learn something, but these ones stick out for these reasons. So lobbying it over to you, what is, a project or a number of projects that that come to mind that show you that you feel a lot of pride and or satisfaction in, in the development of.
00;49;08;14 - 00;49;42;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
Being a lot like what, how you feel like, because the whole of the podcast is the project and but it's always the next one. And right now, I was rolling over in my head this idea, about a year ago into, like, the summer about running for office and, like satire and parody. Yeah. And then I was like, there's no way to parody this.
00;49;42;15 - 00;50;05;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
There's no satire that can get with Diculous and no parody. What we're doing right now. Right? It's just it's all happening. There's a clown up there who's known for like, you know, he's known for TV and have gold toilet from the 80s. What are you going to do? What is that like? Like he's. He's what? He's what?
00;50;05;06 - 00;50;29;09
Kumasi J. Barnett
Poor people think rich people look like, right? Like what I would do if I was rich, if I'd have a gold whole apartment and you're just like, okay, but like, okay, what's the money for the a gold apartment? And then what? I'll stack more money. Okay. And then then I can buy more property like, what did Charles Barkley say?
00;50;29;09 - 00;50;47;19
Kumasi J. Barnett
You can only drive one car at a time, right? So what I'm thinking is not thinking, but doing is I'm going to run for office, starting, you know, when the semester ends. Yeah. And I'm just going to run for office straight.
00;50;47;22 - 00;50;48;09
Rob Lee
Oh, yeah.
00;50;48;12 - 00;51;11;26
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah. That's it. And like, because I really like the paintings and I'm going to do a bunch of different painting. There's a whole bunch of stuff I have to do. But the projects that excite me the most are usually the next project. Yeah. And I, like somebody was saying, I don't know what to do next. And I've never had that problem because I've got like so many things that I have to do.
00;51;11;29 - 00;51;19;05
Kumasi J. Barnett
And there's like, there's not enough time to complete it. And so I'm just going to do them all at the same time.
00;51;19;07 - 00;51;36;07
Rob Lee
I love that. And, I'd be remiss if if you haven't heard, I'll send it your way that what you were describing about, what poor people think a rich person. That's a John Mulaney joke. It is so funny. He's like, I'll have golden hair and I'll hire my family, and I'll fire people.
00;51;36;10 - 00;51;52;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, yeah. It's like what I was like in the middle school. Like, all of the kids wanted to be rich. Yeah, right. And I'm like, okay, why? And they're like, so I can be rich. Okay. And then what are you going to do? Like, I'm going to get the biggest house I can get. You've got the biggest house.
00;51;52;24 - 00;52;07;26
Kumasi J. Barnett
What are you going to do now? I'm going to get the fastest car. Cool. You've got it. I'm going to get another one. You've got ten cars. The best ten cars you can possibly get. What are you going to do now? But I'm going to eat the best food for the stock chef. You're going to eat whatever you want.
00;52;08;00 - 00;52;28;16
Kumasi J. Barnett
Now what are you going to do I don't know, no, no, no, that's the question. Yeah. You've got all of the things covered. What are you going to do now? Like. And if you come to the end of that and you're like, okay, I got this covered, I got this covered. I have this covered. I got this covered, covered.
00;52;28;19 - 00;52;55;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
You know what I always wanted to, like? Run a baseball team like a Little League baseball team. Because that's where I had the most fun in my life. Maybe you should just be teaching Little League baseball. Maybe you don't need to do all of the other stuff where you've got a, you know, a 50,000 square foot mansion. Yeah, or like a 20,000 square foot mansion.
00;52;55;12 - 00;53;09;11
Kumasi J. Barnett
What did Michael Irvin, 20, lived in? Like a 40,000 square foot mansion? We don't need that. Maybe you need like 1200 to 1800 feet, and you can like, you can run a little league pool.
00;53;09;13 - 00;53;31;17
Rob Lee
It's it's also I think I go to this J. Cole interview and he's just like when you get enough money. I'm paraphrasing, get enough money or what have you. And it's like, what's the next thing? He's like, I'm not in this for money. I'm not in this for downloads, hits, whatever he's like. I mean, it's love and it's something that's a little bit more vague, incomprehensible, and people will look at you crazy.
00;53;31;20 - 00;53;50;04
Rob Lee
And yeah, I get really caught on this. And this is where some of my, you know, looking up to the Gen Xers come into play of this notion of selling out. You guys do not jam with that. And I find more and more people with this idea of, well, whatever you got to do to get the bag, I don't respect that.
00;53;50;04 - 00;54;05;21
Rob Lee
It goes back to the money thing and the business thing we were talking about earlier. And you know, when when people ask me, where do you want to go with this and where you how far do you want to go? And I was like, I have some things that I want to do, but it's very dependent on what I want to do.
00;54;05;23 - 00;54;22;01
Rob Lee
And no one's asking me for this. So I was asking you for your work. Right. And it's just it has to be something else that drives it. And I don't want anyone to ask me for it. I want somebody may be curious or give me feedback, but I want to be beholden to no one in that way because it's like, that's not the it's not my motivator.
00;54;22;01 - 00;54;43;09
Rob Lee
That's not my reason. My reason is to engage in these conversations with people and maybe get something that someone you know, takes from it, or at least at a minimum, you know, that I take something from it and I'm like, oh, I feel a little bit smarter. That could sound more interesting. And have something outside of those three topics we talked of earlier just at a dinner party to make it full circle.
00;54;43;11 - 00;55;06;25
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, it's it's amazing when you have that sort of thing. I'll, I'll say it another way. This is a story I like to tell. When I was living in Richmond, that's the job that I engineered or hiring for. I was going to quit, but they fired me before I could quit. Maybe my attitude was showing through, but, I went to this place.
00;55;06;27 - 00;55;29;27
Kumasi J. Barnett
It's Elliot Thompson's. It's a natural food store at the end of the farm where I was living. And I bought this, high end, freshly made raisin bread in a loaf. This was back in, like, the, like the 9/9 to 2000, like, right about there. Yeah. And it was back before everything, like, blew out of proportion.
00;55;30;03 - 00;55;58;28
Kumasi J. Barnett
And you had to slice it with your own, like, bread knife. And then I got these crushed peanuts that made the peanut spread and this, this jam, this high end jam. And I took that back to the apartment, sliced it up. I put it together. I toasted it because I like a toasted recent bread sandwich. And I bought it, and I was about to eat it, and I was like.
00;55;59;00 - 00;56;23;21
Kumasi J. Barnett
What the fuck? I just made a $20 peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Like what? I'm like, maybe. And I started looking at my life and everything I had was just more expensive version of what you needed. Like I had a better car than I had before. I didn't have an 85 central. Yeah, the 85 center never broke down.
00;56;23;24 - 00;56;37;07
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, like it got in the car accident, but it never broke down. Like my apartment was nice. Like it was nice. I had a tree outside. It was in a really nice part of town, but, like.
00;56;37;09 - 00;56;58;12
Kumasi J. Barnett
I'm still just a one bedroom apartment. Right? Right. What what I needed wasn't the better version of the thing. I just needed to be comfortable. I didn't need the extra money. Just like when you know what you need and you know what you want, it provides that freedom.
00;56;58;14 - 00;57;01;01
Rob Lee
That's good. It's a good point.
00;57;01;03 - 00;57;12;05
Truth In This Art (Sound)
Oh, no no no no no no no no no no 00I.
00;57;12;10 - 00;57;19;13
Rob Lee
Think that's where we can close on the real questions. And I was the reason I started laughing. I was like my man, let me make an artisanal, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
00;57;19;20 - 00;57;41;09
Kumasi J. Barnett
It was so it was so artisanal. It was like an inch of bread to look like. Peanut spread had. Like it had one of the things had peanuts in it. And. Oh, yeah. So the Whole Foods joy. Yeah, yeah. But this was before whole Foods. This was, this was back when, like, Whole Foods wasn't even a dream.
00;57;41;12 - 00;57;45;04
Kumasi J. Barnett
Right? So it was so extra.
00;57;45;06 - 00;58;01;02
Rob Lee
So, so I got I got three rapid fire questions I want to hit you with before we close out here. Don't overthink these. These are real quick. So first one, if you could have a giant billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say?
00;58;01;04 - 00;58;03;03
Kumasi J. Barnett
You're good. You're doing all right.
00;58;03;06 - 00;58;13;10
Rob Lee
It's good. Let's see. What is one small creative ritual or habit that you rely on that most people wouldn't know about.
00;58;13;12 - 00;58;35;16
Kumasi J. Barnett
When you're fucking studio at the end of whenever you're working, you have to have wherever you work ready for you to come back and work. Because if you have to come in and clean, you're not going to work. So before you leave the studio, put everything away, clean everything up, put everything back where you're able to make work.
00;58;35;16 - 00;58;36;29
Kumasi J. Barnett
When you come back.
00;58;37;01 - 00;58;50;25
Rob Lee
To a point, I cleaned up a little bit before I put on the mics and I was like, I feel like I have more space in here now. I just got this new microphone on and I was like, I need to tighten this up a little bit. So yeah, I feel like more work is being made versus me hanging out and watching games on a VPN.
00;58;50;27 - 00;59;04;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, put your pain away. Have this squared away food, clean, clean water and each one of these, oh if I come back I can just oh I can just start to paint. I don't need to do all of this before I start. Just ready.
00;59;04;08 - 00;59;24;18
Rob Lee
All right. This is the last one I got for you. This is a really weird one. I just thought of it. I think it's funny. Have you ever. Do you drink while you're painting because you mentioned those? The. You know, the water that's right there. You ever had one of those situations where it's like, all right, I almost drank the brush water, what have you.
00;59;24;20 - 00;59;30;17
Kumasi J. Barnett
No, no, no, I, I don't have food around here.
00;59;30;19 - 00;59;31;16
Rob Lee
Okay.
00;59;31;18 - 00;59;48;24
Kumasi J. Barnett
Like, I really like food that much. Like I'm waiting for those George Jetson pills. You can just pop them. It's just such an effort. Like the cooking and the preparation. And like all of the stuff, to just be mediocre, like.
00;59;48;26 - 00;59;51;11
Rob Lee
In the digestion and the.
00;59;51;13 - 00;59;59;06
Kumasi J. Barnett
And then some of it makes you sleepy and, Yeah. So people don't like that. But yeah.
00;59;59;08 - 01;00;03;09
Rob Lee
The macronutrients, they're, you know, the bane of the existence, I guess. So.
01;00;03;13 - 01;00;23;09
Kumasi J. Barnett
But I have, I have registered, not registered, specific places. Where do you specifically look like the painting area. Like. So I only paint here. There's, like, the couch and sitting area, only relaxing. I can't do anything real over there, so I'll just relax when there's, like, another. You know.
01;00;23;11 - 01;00;44;18
Rob Lee
I do like how things have broken down. It's like I have a quadrant in my mind. And things must be done here for this purpose. I hear you well, so that's kind of it for the rapid. So you have the hotseat. So thank you for that. And, and to, telephone folks where they can follow you check you out, and, stay up to date on all that you have, going on, the floor.
01;00;44;20 - 01;00;46;19
Rob Lee
Yours, please.
01;00;46;21 - 01;01;11;23
Kumasi J. Barnett
Yeah, I think it's Rick. Marcy at everything. And capacity, but that.com is the website which needs to be updated because no paperwork, you know, don't follow me. I have no idea where I'm going. Like, I don't I don't know when I'm doing like, the TikToks are interesting because they're just advice I want to give my daughter that she won't listen to.
01;01;11;26 - 01;01;12;17
Rob Lee
That's good. But like.
01;01;12;19 - 01;01;18;29
Kumasi J. Barnett
I'm hoping one day she'll see I'm gonna be like, oh, but it probably won't last that long.
01;01;19;02 - 01;01;36;28
Rob Lee
And there you have it, folks. I want to again, thank Kumasi Jade, Period Barnett for coming back on to the podcast and running it back with me. And for Kumasi. I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it.
01;01;37;00 - 01;01;40;11
Rob Lee
You. Can.