Rob Lee:
[00:00:11 - 00:00:49]
Welcome to the Truth in this Art, your source of conversations connecting arts, culture and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host, Rob Lee. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with a professor and painter whose practice subverts classic comic book narratives, painting directly over vintage issues to confront issues such as police brutality, racial profiling and systemic racism through a present day social lens. We last spoke back in early 2022 and I'm eager to run it back and chat again with him. So please welcome back to the program. Kumasi J. Period Barnett. Welcome back to the podcast.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:00:50 - 00:01:02]
Thank you for having me. It's actually Kumasi J. Period Barnett because my dad doesn't believe in middle names. It's a J with a period legally, which is great when you go to do government things.
Rob Lee:
[00:01:02 - 00:01:22]
Jay with a period might have to be the end of this. Might have to be the name of the episode, actually. But it's been a few years since you and I chatted before and so I'm eager to catch up. And we were talking, we talked for about a half an hour before even hitting this mic. So that's wild. It's almost like a whole different podcast.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:01:23 - 00:01:24]
I think that's the real podcast.
Rob Lee:
[00:01:26 - 00:01:40]
Truth in His Art After Dark, after the Truth. Before we dive into the deeper questions, I want to give you the space to reintroduce yourself. It's been a few years, so reintroduce yourself to the listeners.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:01:40 - 00:02:16]
Yeah, my name is Kumasi J. Period Barnett. I'm a painter. I'm from Turner Station. If you know where it is, you know where it is. I was born up in Providence, Rhode island, but only spent three years up there. Grew up College Park. Oh, Dundalk Community College. Back when it was Dundalk Community College before College park and then the Ohio State University. I am, you know, I'm just a guy who likes to paint stuff. Also professor of drawing and painting at Penn State University.
Rob Lee:
[00:02:17 - 00:02:18]
Nice.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:02:19 - 00:02:20]
They like when I say that.
Rob Lee:
[00:02:22 - 00:02:26]
I like that. I like that. So. So go Nidley. Like Nittany Lions, I guess.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:02:27 - 00:02:29]
I mean, yeah, they play football.
Rob Lee:
[00:02:30 - 00:02:35]
I was going back basketball because I'm a black man. You know, football, Football as well is also. We're pretty good at that as well.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:02:35 - 00:02:39]
They do fine at basketball, but they play football.
Rob Lee:
[00:02:40 - 00:02:41]
They play football.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:02:41 - 00:02:42]
Yeah, they play football.
Rob Lee:
[00:02:43 - 00:03:14]
So. So thank you for that. And it's, you know, sort of this is our second round and I like to look at, you know, the conversations, especially in this season, of almost an opportunity to fix maybe things where I was not particularly Good. In terms of an interview or continue a conversation. Right. So one of the things I was curious about for you, you know, artists, you're a guy that paints, right. So did art come easy to you? Was it something that was a hard earned craft?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:03:17 - 00:04:07]
So it's funny because my mom just gave me a bunch of drawings that me and my brother did when we were tiny. And my mom did like, not so much advertising, but design when she was little. And my dad said he used to be a writer. So I drew from whenever I can remember. And it's something that I thought like everybody could do and everybody does. So it's not that it came easy. Like being an artist is hard. Doing and making art has never been hard for me. Like doing paperwork, difficult, making artwork all day, every day. So, you know. But I'm a painter, which is different. Like people draw. People are artists who do multiple different fields. But I'm a painter. I see things in terms of color.
Rob Lee:
[00:04:07 - 00:05:03]
That makes sense and I think in it, you know, making it, making that, distinguishing those, those two things. Like making art is one thing, but being an artist, that's something else. And I hear, I hear it was, it was some. I think it was the. I think it was the war of art. And not the art of war, but the war of art. And the. The author is talking about sort of the. And I think this is also in Death of the Artist too. This idea of the work that goes into being the artist, being the writer, doing all that stuff. It's like I'm not even interested in that. Like I gotta go to the social engagements, the read along, the, you know, just spending these, these sort of time sucks. So I think that is a thing that even with this thing that I do. I don't know, like I like doing the podcast, I like having the conversations, doing the thing. But the stuff that goes into doing the next thing. Not a fan.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:05:03 - 00:05:35]
Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of like you really like being you, but you don't like, like people like you. Right. When I meet somebody like me, they kind of annoy me and I don't know why. It's probably the things that I feel bad about myself, but I really enjoy being who I am. Yeah. And I really enjoy making art. And sometimes I'll finish a painting and be so excited because I finished it and that allows me to make more paintings. But like the other stuff, I'm not so.
Rob Lee:
[00:05:36 - 00:06:02]
So in that this is. This is sort of a nice follow up to that. The. When did you decide to pursue art as A. A career. Now, I. I understand that, you know, it's not only just, you know, art as a career, but also it's the education component and that's connected and, you know, with that, you know, when you chose it. But what are some of the other, like, choices that factored into and continue to factor into this career?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:06:06 - 00:08:06]
So in 2001, I think I got fired from my job. The great moment. I engineered it. I got fired, got unemployment, and was like, basically just floating in a tube on a river that was moving really slow. I had no direction whatsoever. But I knew I didn't want to do that anymore. Right. I came out from, like, doing installations, and this guy was like, oh, man, you only got to do this 20 more years and you're all set. And that was the time where I couldn't work there anymore. And so I think around 2002, the end of 2002, I was like, what am I going to do? And I broke down everything that I'm good at and everything I enjoy. And it came between mass and art. And I figured if I was doing something math related, I would still be painting. So why not do the thing that I would do no matter what? And that's the scariest thing that you can do. Because if you fail at what you have always loved and always wanted to do, you don't have a thing anymore. But the fix for that was instead of looking at like 1 year, 5 year, 10 year, I was looking at 40 years, I was looking at 50 years. And if at 50 years it didn't work, would I still be content with that? Yes. And then I painted the worst painting I've ever painted and was like, you know what? You don't need enough. You need to go back to school, because this is. This is terrible. You need to think about what you're doing, and you need to learn more about the conceptual ideas that you have. That wasn't it. And yeah, that's what brought me back to College park. Mostly the. The art history in College Park. And I was lucky because the art teachers are really good, but the art historians focused a lot on African American art specifically at the time I went back. Yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:08:08 - 00:09:31]
So what continues to play a role and factor into the decision and let me step back a little bit, actually, I like the time game there because I've been playing a bit with that myself. Again, these different founders books I was referencing before we got started. And one of the things that pops up is just the way that Michael Jordan kind of perceived time was a thing that Would come up in conversation. And mostly when he got older, and it was this mindfulness thing of, hey, I remember they won the sixth championship. Listening to this being recalled in one of these biographies. And I think it's also on the last dance and someone's asking, are you guys going to go for a seventh? And he's just like, the moment, like, right here. Let's stay in this. And then sort of subsequent conversations he would talk about, like, I think he was maybe 60 at the time, sort of like, hey, why am I going to worry about what's on Wednesday when today is Monday? I only have so many Mondays left. And I think we kind of try to rush through the thing and other times we have these sort of like five year plans and maybe that's not long enough to kind of stick at it and get sort of good at it. Maybe thinking in this 40 year, this decade sort of mindset, but also just kind of playing with how we're perceiving time as it relates to a particular goal I think is important.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:09:32 - 00:10:25]
Yeah, definitely, like, because today you have to do the work that will build up to the 10 year, 20 year, 30 year. So you're focused on right now, but looking way back and if you, you know, if you look backwards, you can see how far you've come. Like, it's like a something. It's like a plant growing. Right. If you're looking at it every day, you don't realize how big it's gotten. But if you leave and you come back three months from now, you're like, whoa, that thing's gotten huge. Was there a lot of sun? Was there a lot of water? That happened. So, yeah, I'm long term focused, so. And I'm old, so I can do a year of like just ridiculousness on my head at this point. If I got to suffer for a year, no problem.
Rob Lee:
[00:10:26 - 00:10:32]
You made it sound like someone that's in a movie that's dealing with a prison sentence is like, I did my nickel. I could do that on my head.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:10:33 - 00:11:27]
Yeah. And that's a 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. You know how that is. I'm not in it right now, but I've, I've worked some jobs where I knew, like, okay, this is because you don't want to be unemployed and you want to keep your wife, like, who is a lovely, lovely woman. But, you know, it's a funny thing about my wife, specifically. I won't speak for y', all, you know, y' all partners out there, but she doesn't understand if I was asleep when she left. Right. And I did some art stuff. I did some like, I made a really good painting or really good strides on the painting. I don't know that I could finish it while she was at work. But by the time she came back, I'm on the couch. A lot of stuff happened in between there. Yeah. But I didn't leave the house. It's, you know, you only have three months of that.
Rob Lee:
[00:11:27 - 00:11:28]
Not as legit, so.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:11:29 - 00:11:31]
Yeah, so.
Rob Lee:
[00:11:31 - 00:12:02]
And so one of the things that I do when I'm balancing, because I'm still doing both, I'm still doing the day job, I'm still doing sort of this. And there's a constant recalibration and consideration of just the things that I have to do. You have a social life, you have a family life, you have all of these different things. What are the considerations you're making when you're making those balances? You were touching on that a bit there of like you have a partner, you have a wife. And it's like, I gotta get this done. It's like, gotta figure this out. Can't just be on the couch all day.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:12:04 - 00:13:25]
The family's, the family is first for me because my kid is young, so I want to be around them as much as possible while they're young. They don't listen. That's cool. But like, like during COVID I had them every day and we were going to the park every day and we had a schedule every day and we did tons of things that they will not remember, but I will remember. So I'll remember this time and I'll remember when they're young and hopefully they'll remember some of it after that. It's, you know, it's family. But I don't have to plan when I work in terms of painting because I will just paint. That's never been a problem for me. So it's, it's finding something that allows me to paint. I don't like jobs where I come home too tired to do the actual activity that I want to do. That's why I can't work in galleries specifically and like in art related fields. Like I can't be a preparator or work in a museum because it takes the fun of art out of me and it takes the. I have to do art related stuff at work. And when I come home, it feels like I'm still in that.
Rob Lee:
[00:13:26 - 00:14:52]
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's totally legit where, you know, I was touching on before we got started. And I've mentioned this podcast before that I've done the education thing. And I try to. During that however many weeks that I'm doing it, there are no podcasts being recorded because it's like the brain work that's there. I didn't, I didn't properly anticipate it. I underestimated it initially of like, oh, I'm using my brain the entire time in this way versus just doing. And I don't want to cross the streams because I encountered that sort of here. So, like, you touched on the COVID times. Right? And I remember this. Where I'm recording at right now, where we're having this conversation at right now is the home studio. And, you know, we have these, this idea of like third spaces and all of that. And I just remember I would do my day job here and then I would do my recording here. And then those things started to converge and I was like, this is just like a long workday. I do this at the end of the workday and it's like I need to make those a little bit more desperate and distinct because they start rubbing up on each other. And I don't want to misidentify sort of the stuff that's required to make this work. You know, salary, insurance, all of that stuff roof over my head with like, I look over to the recording piece. I don't want that to feel like it's just one long 10 to 12 hour day.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:14:52 - 00:15:40]
Yeah. Being an educator is different between middle school, high school and college. College courses are not so much repeatable, but like, there's only so many ways to teach figure drawing. Right. And after you've taught it two or three times, you've got a basic structure for it and you're really adjusting to the students that you have in class. Middle school, all day, every day, like that is a load. High school can be a load, but it is a lot more stressful than some of those other classes. So, yeah, I don't think I could do again. I've done it. Don't think I could do it again.
Rob Lee:
[00:15:41 - 00:16:04]
And it's like, you know, I was already like prepping it out and you know, it's like after that first one, I had like, I think I had a recording at an interview with an artist that was west coast based. I was really looking forward to talking to her and I can feel I was nodding off in the conversation. And she gave me the grace. I was like, I did terrible in this conversation. She was like, no, you were great. And I was just like, are you just saying that?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:16:05 - 00:16:23]
No, you were probably so. You're so good at it that you were probably on autopilot. Like, you were driving home at the end of the night and you made your way home and you didn't realize how you got home. Like, you can do it, but you just weren't as present as you expect yourself to be. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:16:23 - 00:17:01]
Thank you. So I want to move into this. This next question. Sort of when I think of your work, and it's, you know, obviously it's. It's thought provoking when I think of sort of the comic component and those pieces. So then this kind of goes into a little bit of what we were talking about earlier. Definitely the following question, but what is it about your work that continues to fascinate you both as an artistic act, but also as an act of protest? Because you're making people think. And I think that's really important artistically.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:17:01 - 00:18:25]
It's interesting because all of the imagery that I reappropriating, maybe, or remixing or redefining is different. Like, there's so many different artists. There's so many different ways that they're drawn. Whether it's like, 50s and 60s, or it's like 70s and 80s or 90s, they're all very different kinds of art. And I really enjoy the process of taking these, like, imaginary stories and making them into true stories. Yeah. And making them into something that resonates and that leads to, like, the encounter that people have with it where they're like, oh, this is. Oh, wait. Okay, wait. Whoa, whoa. Caught me off guard with that. These are deep. What's. Wait, what's this one like? You know, people say you don't. You shouldn't talk about, like, what, politics, sex and religion at a dinner. Well, I'm not coming because those are the interesting things. Like, what are we going to talk about? Like, I'm not going to talk about sports with you because, like, I don't care. I do like them, but I don't care. Like, I don't care who wins the NBA championship right now. Right. Like, I don't have a team. So, like, we can talk, but, like, I want to talk about what's going to get your dad mad.
Rob Lee:
[00:18:25 - 00:18:56]
Yeah, it's that thing where it's just like, if I'm taking these three things out already of topic, that I'm the same way. It's like, all right. And I find myself at any of these functions, I'm really quiet. And then as soon as someone says something, I was like, oh, I've been sitting here thinking about this the whole time. Here you go, boom, boom, boom. And I find either everyone gets quiet because it's not like I'm just popping off. It's more so like, I thought this through and I have a dissertation for you.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:18:58 - 00:19:00]
Yeah, let's talk about this.
Rob Lee:
[00:19:01 - 00:19:12]
And it's sort of like the. The kind of polite topics. It's like, oh, the weather. No one likes that conversation. What are you watching on tv? The same three things that everyone is. Else is watching, like severance and maybe last of Us. Like, what are we doing?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:19:13 - 00:19:23]
Yeah, it's what came out in the last two weeks that everybody said was good. Now let's talk about what's really happening. Like, shit is like, literally talk about it.
Rob Lee:
[00:19:23 - 00:19:41]
And because I like to troll, I like to take the thing that people would talk about. Like, hey, man, did you guys see Sinners? Yes. You know that part when she's spitting his mouth and they were talking about coups and stuff? Yeah. My favorite part of the movie. I like to intersect. I like to inject the thing that they don't want to talk about it. So the racial dynamics.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:19:42 - 00:19:48]
Well, let's talk about power. Let's talk about power dynamics and how she can flip that, huh? Yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:19:48 - 00:19:51]
It's just like we're going to get to the conversation I want one way or the other.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:19:52 - 00:20:03]
Yeah. And that awkward pause where you say that and you just pause and you just like, you wait for the response and it's like, quiet, quiet.
Rob Lee:
[00:20:03 - 00:20:24]
This is one of the things where I joke with my partner on occasion about this. Of like, I'm in that, like, 85. Right. I'm in that sort of like, stage of like, I was hanging out with the Gen Xers and she was like, absolutely, you were. Because it's the same sort of thing. You don't trust anything. And you're like, oh, no, this is the thing you don't want to say. Yeah. I'm going to dive into it even deeper.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:20:24 - 00:20:47]
Yeah. And I am a Gen Xer, so, like, I'm just. I'm here for it. Like, yeah, like, okay, we're going to read the statement on land appropriation. Like, let's talk about it. Let's talk about how we're going to read this statement, but we're not going to give the shit back. And we feel kind of bad because we don't feel bad about it. So what are we doing?
Rob Lee:
[00:20:48 - 00:21:46]
Yeah. What's the actual activity? And kind of, you know, and it's. I encounter some of These things. And I, especially when going back through and doing, you know, the guests I wanted to have back on, I think in having that refinement of, like, you were on some weird stuff in a previous interview or your work is taking this sort of weird turn as far as some of the guests, that really didn't fit what I was looking for. And I was just thinking about it, I was like, oh, I'm at that stage. I'm at that stage of not sure about this sort of polite conversation. This sort of. It's not vapid, but it's. It's not quite what it is. It's lacking the authenticity. And I'm not trying to, like, be a troll or be an agitator, but it's just like I'm a kind of classic, is sort of how I go about things. And if I'm unable to have that conversation or my conversation partner isn't down to take that ride with me, that's like, really, where are we going to go with it? And we're going to have a very flat conversation.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:21:47 - 00:22:11]
Yeah. Like the conversation that you want to talk about. You need somebody who wants to talk about it. And, like, it's fine. If you want to talk about, like, the weather, that's cool. I mean, it's the same weather it was last year. Okay. Like, I don't. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. About this time. Pollen. Got it. Hate it. Yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:22:11 - 00:22:15]
So when we, when we screwed up global warming, right? Oh, no, we can't talk about that.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:22:16 - 00:22:34]
Yeah. And the fun part about that is when you talk about climate change and people are like, well, the Earth has been here. Yeah, but we won't be able to live here. We can go to another planet. If we could go to another planet, why don't we just fix this one? Like, what are we doing?
Rob Lee:
[00:22:35 - 00:22:39]
And me, I would take it to the pop culture lens. Like, you've seen Wally, Right. That's really what we have happening.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:22:41 - 00:22:42]
Yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:22:42 - 00:22:43]
We're going to get there.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:22:46 - 00:23:26]
There are things that we don't have solutions for. Right. There are things that we can't fix yet, but these things we can fit and we know how to fix them and we know the steps to make them better. What is it that stops you from doing that? Like what? Like there's a reason laws are written in blood. Right. So regulations are written in blood. The reason we restrict people from polluting is because people die. Right. So why are we talking about. Nestle can do whatever they want.
Rob Lee:
[00:23:28 - 00:25:07]
And I, I think at this stage, the where we're at from a, from a culture specific, specific, specifically in the US with the oligarchs and all that different stuff, you know, it should be very apparent to people to not even play this sort of like second guessing soft pedaling. That's not what's happening. It's happening live in it. There's no subtleness with it. And I just remember, you know, so my birthday is January 20th. So you know, I was having a great day, I was like, I was having a great day. I was like, oh, so this is what's happening. And you know, some of the thoughts I had, I remember going back even and I'm moving to this next question because, you know, but going, going back to November and as you remember going to sleep and all of the sort of noise that's there of it being turned into sort of, if you don't do this, if you don't vote this way and blah blah, blah, then it means this. It's like, well, it doesn't. It's just a person made this choice. It's maybe an ill informed choice, maybe it's uninformed choice. But I remember to try to quell myself because of all of that noise. You can't escape it if you're on social media. Can't escape it because everyone was thinking about it. Right. I just remember saying to myself, if we're a good country, if we're a serious country, we'll move in this direction. And if we're not, then we're not this type of country. And went to sleep with that being sort of the last thought that I had. And I just remember waking up in the morning, I was like, oh, we're not a good country. It was just that.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:25:08 - 00:26:35]
Yeah. And my birthday is November 11th, so it had just happened. The thing that, the thing that. Not as interesting to me but that I keep thinking about is when people say they voted against their interests or people voted against their interest. They didn't. Their interest were, was what we have now. This is their interest. Even the people who are affected by what is happening right now, they voted for the oppression of other peoples. They voted for the oligarchs because one day they will be one. Apparently. They voted for, I don't even know how to like, I don't know if it's fascism. They voted for a king. Because if you ask them right now, if everything that is happening right now, you knew about it in November, that vote wouldn't change. Right. The people who voted for this are fine with what is Happening. That's who America is. I think you, like me, knew it was like this. We had a dream that we believed it could be different, but we knew it was this, experienced this, and we're back to this.
Rob Lee:
[00:26:36 - 00:27:58]
And I think if you have a enough time with it, there's this video when I was at City College back in the day where this was, I think 2000. And I just remember I had no media training. I'm like, not even looking at the camera. It was Tim Tootin interviewed me, Rip, and he was just like, so what are your thoughts about the election? I was coming out of American government class, my head is down. I was like, yeah, man. Whoever we choose, you know, in this next election, that's who we got to deal with. You know, I'm thinking I'm being insightful as like a 15 year old, but it was then just having some degree of awareness and, you know, and it's very simple, but it's just like, it's sort of that notion of you made your bed, now, now sleep in it. And no, no backsies, you know, no backsies. So sort of expounding on that a little bit to what I was sharing with you earlier. Back in September of last year, I moderated this panel on the intersection of cartoons, comics and social justice at Cartoon Crossroads Columbus. And it sparked a great discussion. Some, some friendships came out of it. All of that good stuff. So for, for you who works in this sort of lane of like remixing, reinterpreting, like comics and popular media more broadly, why are they such powerful tools in addressing social consciousness?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:27:59 - 00:29:02]
I think there's not naivete. There's a certain lightness and airiness and playfulness with the medium. Right. It's hard to take somebody dressed up in spandex who jumps out a window. Seriously. So, like a lot of them you can project yourself onto. That's the key. With Spider man complete coverage. So unless the suit is ripped, he could be anybody and we can project ourselves on them. And so when we get to love those characters and love like the idea of those characters, you can have those characters speak to social justice, speak to an ideal world and speak to the current world in a way that certain other things can't, without having the pressure of, I don't know if it's literature, but the pressure of history in a different manner.
Rob Lee:
[00:29:02 - 00:29:10]
Yeah, I think of when you mentioned that. I think of that bit about why Batman's mouth is exposed.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:29:11 - 00:29:17]
Yeah. Oh, I'll say the joke. I love the joke. Why does Batman mask not cover his whole face.
Rob Lee:
[00:29:17 - 00:29:17]
Why?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:29:19 - 00:30:21]
So the cops know he's white. Literally. And you know the question just, like. Because it has to come up at some point while you're talking to people. Like, the idea that the richest man in the city, let's say Baltimore, is jumping out of, like, a car to beat up a guy who just stole, I don't know, $2,000 worth of jewelry from a store is insane. It is, like, it's insane that the car and the things that he's wearing on his person is worth 10 times whatever the thieves just took out of Gotham Central Bank. Like, what are we doing? What are we doing? And you can't tell me that there's some different moral standard that he has because he's a vigilante. Right. He. The only thing that allows him to do this is his money. Yeah. What are we doing?
Rob Lee:
[00:30:22 - 00:30:44]
I like when. When the creator or a particular thing kind of, like, throw shots at how it's being used, I think of the Punisher logo. It's, like, not rocking with that. And I like that that was lightweight. Incorporated in the most recent season of Daredevil. Of like, I didn't see that one yet. Yeah. So.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:30:44 - 00:30:45]
No, no, no. No spoilers.
Rob Lee:
[00:30:47 - 00:31:08]
But the. The. It's. It's that thing where we see it in irl, you know, it's just. You see some dudes pick up truck, and it's like, all right, we get it. You know, it's a blue line and a Punisher skull. It's like, settle down. We get it. You read half of a page of a book. But then the creator is like, I really banging with that. This is not used for that purpose. And I like when they just kind of disavow that nonsense.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:31:10 - 00:31:43]
Yeah. I mean, I think the thing with the Punisher is they don't want the repercussions of their actions. Like, and the fact that. Yeah. And especially with cops and the Punisher, like, what are you doing? What? Like, your job is to enforce laws whether you believe in them or not. And now you don't want to enforce the law because you don't believe in one. That's no different than not enforcing any law at all.
Rob Lee:
[00:31:44 - 00:31:50]
Right. Like, I'm being. I'm being selective of this sort of duty to dot, dot, dot.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:31:51 - 00:32:07]
Yeah, you don't get to be selective. That's what's the real problem with, like, how the executive branch is acting right now. Like, you don't get to be selective. The law is the law. We change the law. You follow the law.
Rob Lee:
[00:32:08 - 00:32:34]
Otherwise, it's this thing where, in that same vein, where it's just like, what is the Constitution? You start having those things. It's like, are you actively gaslighting a country? It's almost that. And it's like, I thought we were all playing our roles because we're not all playing the same game in the same system. But we do recognize it's a system, right? Oh, no, no, no. That's not a system anymore. I don't even know what the Constitution is. I got to uphold that. Yes.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:32:36 - 00:33:34]
Yeah. Like, you know, this is what happens when you elect stupid people, like, just because you're good at. I want to hear me out. I don't want to say this and offend people, but I don't really respect this. Respect people in business. Like, because the act of make. The act of making money isn't like, it's not really that impressive. Right. So you can sell widgets, right. You can sell houses. Cool. Really excited about that for you. But it doesn't really do anything. And the idea that if you can sell a ton of houses or you can do real estate deals, that you have expertise in other things, you is ridiculous. Like, it's. It's ridiculous for business people to think that because they are good at marketing, they're smart, right? They're good at manipulation, they're intelligent. Those things are different.
Rob Lee:
[00:33:35 - 00:34:47]
Well, let me, let me throw this in there. This is a. So my degree is in business and I did the extra marketing stuff and all of that stuff. I didn't follow the rules. I didn't believe in the rules. I got jaded with it early on. And I think with it, I'll even add this to. Because I'm in agreement with you where I think it's a lot of times you guys had some sort of tip, some sort of first mover advantage. You got it before anyone else did. And this is the thing that shows that. Why is it. It's the same with, like, rappers, right? Remember that period when rappers were saying they're rock stars and it's like, because you don't really like rap. So a lot of these business people, they like making money, but the money doesn't satisfy them. So they want to be podcasters, suddenly they want to be artists and musicians. Because those are the people, or we are the people. I'll insert myself in here that we're actually moving culture, I suppose, or we make people feel something. And regardless of how many millions or billions you have, you can't quite do that. It's just not A thing. It's an intangible, and it's deprecated. And it's done in a way that. Well, anyone can do this. Not at this level. These turn to Action Bronson kind of passively disrespecting Ghostface Killer.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:34:47 - 00:35:40]
Yeah. And Action Bronson is fine. He's not Ghostwith Killer, but he's fine. Yeah, yeah, he's got some bars, but, like, yeah, because look, nothing fills the. The empty hole inside of you, your soul, that makes you feel like a complete person. Like, you can't stuff that full of money. You can't stuff that full of, like, other people's respect. You have to find a way to complete yourself in a way that is reasonable. And I can. I can help you get to contentment. I can't help you get to happiness. That's way too far. But let's be honest, like, nobody cares about Steve Jobs, right? Like, at one point, the world was in love with him because he was one of the richest people in the world. Right. But what they were in love with was the money and the power.
Rob Lee:
[00:35:41 - 00:35:41]
Yeah.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:35:42 - 00:35:49]
And they wanted the money and the power, but I don't think there was a huge amount of respect there.
Rob Lee:
[00:35:50 - 00:37:05]
Like, we play this idolatry game, and I see it in, you know, some of these. These conversations when I, you know, talk to certain artists and, you know, some of the DMs and some of the replies back that I get are really wild of what the rejection looks like. And it's just like, you see how many followers I have, and I was like, oh, so that's replace money. And then you see the course, and granted, this has been five years of doing this podcast, and I'll see folks who kind of didn't pay homage early on because they thought that they believed in the sort of, I'm up here, and it's like, I can't do your little, little small podcast, or what's your. What's your budget? You know, in honorariums, there's some people I just have not mentioned who have been on that wave. And it's interesting, and I go out of my way at times to say, like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, you know, feel free to come on my podcast and talk about your work for an hour. That's fine. You know, this is just a commercial for you. But when that down, when they come down, because it's not baked and based in anything, they think that, well, I'm an artist or whatever, right? And they think that I've now crossed over because I got a Little clout. I got a little money now I can do. Get that love, you know, my soul is now full. Now you have your bills paid, but that's, that's a temporary thing, which is.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:37:05 - 00:38:17]
A good place to be. Like, I like for people to have their bill. I grew up poor and like the level you need to get to before you can start really considering things and thinking about things is your belly's full, your rent is paid, and you know you can do that next month. Yeah, like, like I can order a pizza right now. That's an amazing feeling for me. I can just put in a call and it'll come here. Like, where I grew up, they wouldn't deliver here. But like food will come to my house and I can just like go out on the porch and get it. But like, if you're a musician and you're working at McDonald's and you've been working at McDonald's for five years and you've been playing guitar with your band for those five years, you're still a musician who's working at McDonald's. You're not a McDonald's worker. You're a musician who's working at McDonald's. And when that song hits, you're still a musician. Like that, that window isn't going to change how you feel about yourself. Right. Like, when you are alone with yourself, who are you?
Rob Lee:
[00:38:18 - 00:38:53]
And. And that's why when I do the. That first question that I ask, could you reintroduce yourself? It's like, how do people introduce themselves? It's opportunity for them to put out there what's the most important identity that they have? Because we all learn multiple things. And I think the point that previous thing I was getting at is that I think a lot of times folks will misidentify themselves and align themselves with sort of the, the CEO, the boss, and have that sort of energy and that rhythm when, as I mentioned before, that CEO, that boss, think about the thing that you're doing, because that's the thing that has the soul enriching component.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:38:53 - 00:38:58]
Yeah, it's what all of the, all the rich people want to be famous. All of the famous people want to be rich. Right.
Rob Lee:
[00:38:59 - 00:39:22]
And it's like you. It's almost this thing where when you think about like, you know, sort of rockets and we think about how other famous people have mentioned themselves in this sort of the sort of position where this person is loved. I'm. I'm da Vinci, I'm Tesla, I'm this, I'm that. And it's Just like those people have been dead for a long time and they probably died poor. You know what I mean?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:39:23 - 00:40:19]
Yeah, yeah. Some of our. Well, just because I'm like an artist and a painter and love art history. Like some of the most famous painters that we know of today didn't make any money. But there's a flip side to that. Yeah. Where the most famous painters of their day who sold the most artwork we don't even mention. Right. And you have to go deep into art history and study and see who is actually like if we're talking the Renaissance, who was actually making money from the church, the Pope, the. What do you call those people, the merchants who was actually pulling in all that money that we don't even talk about. We don't even look at their art. I mean the conclusion I came to is you might as well do what you love and do it as much as you can because like so, so.
Rob Lee:
[00:40:19 - 00:41:11]
Did this, this next thing I got this sort of next like two part question, but I'll insert this in. I saw this, this, this, this quote earlier as a piece of. It's a stat and gives, it gives us context. I think they had Babe Ruth on there. They had Frank Sinatra and they were just making the point of. Frank sinatra had like 17% of the music that he put out actually charted as a hit. BABE Ruth, only 8.5% of the hits that or the bats that he had were home runs. And these are people known for hits and they're known for home runs. So it's a very small percentage. So basically the point was like keep plugging away, keep doing the thing that you do if you have love for it or if you're doing or whatever the motivation is. And you see 8 and a half, 17% you're like, oh, you are failure. But it has to be something else that drives us. Suppose.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:41:12 - 00:42:25]
Yeah. Well, especially in art. In art you're not going to get the same concrete end that you get in other things. Right. So if I was working in business, I know whether or not this thing is going to sell, right. If I am working in accounting, I know whether the, the numbers are going to make sense or they're not going to make sense. At the end of the day I can figure out like what your tax returns are and that's done and it's finished. If I'm working in carpentry, as soon as the thing is built, it is built, you can tell if it's going to hold up like the bookshelf. You can tell like how well it was made. I don't. I don't know if these are good or not yet. Like, I'm too close to them. Like, I have to finish them. I have to put them away, and I might come back to them. And the ones that I really thought were good aren't any good. I don't know if I attack a new problem, whether there will be a finite solution. Yeah, Like, I have to live in that exploration. And that's the most fun part. Like, the exploration, the finding the new problems, the new issues I think I.
Rob Lee:
[00:42:25 - 00:43:31]
Talk about all the time. You know, artists, creative folks, people who are innovative in their thinking. They're problem solvers, you know, Like, I find myself often, like, man, I'm really hooked on this one question. And it's just like, all right, you got to find a way to get around this. And it's like, but I want to know this. And there are other times where I have the questions, I send them over, and it's just like, we're just like, off the. We're just riffing. It just turns into an improv session. And it's just sort of like. And I say this in the classes that I teach. It's like finding the right tool for the job or have you. Like, I might have this type of recorder for this environment, that type recorder for that environment. But it's sort of like figuring it out as I go along. But it's always also rooted in this idea of, like, am I even good at this? Is this even worthwhile? And it's just like, I'm terrible, but it's like I'm going to keep going at it, you know, keep putting those. Those strokes of the brush or, you know, keep turning that. That page to maybe, you know, find something. But it keeps me. Keeps me curious. So I want to move into these. These next two and these final two questions before I go to the rapid fire. So, black artists. You're black? I'm a black man. You're a black man?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:43:34 - 00:43:37]
Yeah, well, I'm mixed, actually. I'm half black, half African American.
Rob Lee:
[00:43:38 - 00:43:44]
I. I'm just, you know, trying to think how I was like, ah, you know, I'm just standard black.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:43:45 - 00:44:08]
You know, the last time I said, what was it? My family like, you know, you find out one person from your family is from somewhere, and, like, you go crazy. And I did that, and my friend was like, black is my cousin. All right. Yeah, you right. You're right. Let me put that back in my pocket, right? Because, you know, I'm From Curtis.
Rob Lee:
[00:44:08 - 00:44:15]
When I did the. What is it, the 23andMe, I was just. It's. It was like. It was like Egypt, Albanian.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:44:15 - 00:44:22]
I was like, I don't know, Black mixed with black. Right. Black mixed with noir. It's like the.
Rob Lee:
[00:44:22 - 00:44:24]
The cheekbones say this.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:44:26 - 00:44:27]
But as a. As a.
Rob Lee:
[00:44:27 - 00:44:50]
As a black artist, like, making socially conscious work, what kind of barriers do you encounter, like, when you're navigating sort of the art world? Like, I have a sense based on sort of the conversation that we're having or that we've had and sort of just the general take. But what are the barriers that you encounter? What are the challenges that you've encountered that kind of stick out?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:44:50 - 00:46:33]
Well, I mean, there's sort of like a parallel art world, right? Is what people think of the conventional art world. And then there's sort of like a black parallel art world to it. There are real museums, institutions, galleries are scared, and especially since, like, November, super scared. And it seems to be changing a little bit now. But, like, I. A lot of things that were happening in November dried up. It was like, you turn the lights on and, like, scurried away. I don't know what to do. And then the talk of DEI did that in addition. So that is always an issue. Another issue is the pop. Ness. And the comic book part of it is sometimes hard for museums to really understand what's happening. And you know what? I'm down for a good fight. So it's like, that can be an issue because I want to talk about the problem issue with it. But in the same sense, I have been lucky to find people who are really interested in talking about those conversations and having, like, that platform and showing that stuff. So, like, I have been able to find people who are more engaged with social conscious things because it scares off the people who are not engaged, and that's a blessing. And, you know, I really like being black, so I'm here for it.
Rob Lee:
[00:46:34 - 00:46:35]
Absolutely.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:46:36 - 00:46:39]
Yeah, I. I really like being black.
Rob Lee:
[00:46:39 - 00:46:46]
It's, you know, you threw the fist up. So, I mean, I know it's real. I know it's like, yeah, it's an.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:46:46 - 00:47:14]
Interesting thing because, like, I think we share the voice thing. Like, my mom is from Rhode island, she's from Providence, so she wouldn't let me talk with an accent when I came back in the house. But, like, I don't have the Turner Station accent, but it'll slip out when I get really excited. And my wife was like, what was that from? That's from Turner's, because she's from PG County. I'm like, that's. That's some Turner's. My bad, my bad.
Rob Lee:
[00:47:14 - 00:47:52]
It's only certain words for me. My girl mentions it. She's. She's from. Like, she's from. She's from Brooklyn. She's from New York. And she was like, what's this orange thing? I was like, look, I mean, I was like, a lot on it. And it's that. It's that it's almost chameleon thing where I'll go to different places and they can't quite put their finger on it. And it's only certain things and it's degree of excitement there. But also if I'm around, like, let's say, you know, I was touching on earlier, you know, being in New York or what have you for on Air Fest. And if there's like another Baltimorean there, it's just like, yeah, we're. It's just magnets. It just comes together.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:47:52 - 00:48:09]
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think it was when I said Baltimore, she said, oh, you said that. Real lazy. And I was like, oh, because I'm tired right now. I said, I said it correctly. She's like, no, but you didn't pronounce the T. Yeah, said it correctly. Yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:48:09 - 00:48:11]
Yes. It's a D there. Just so you know.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:48:11 - 00:48:12]
Yeah, yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:48:13 - 00:49:07]
So. So here's the last, last one. And you know, when you think of, you know, through. Through your work, right? Is there a project that really pops up or one of your works that really pops up that's left you with the most pride or, like, satisfaction? Because, you know, people ask me this all the time, like, what's your favorite episode? I was like, I've done almost 900 of them. There are a handful that stick out and they have, like, it's an opportunity to tell stories, right? That's the thing for me, it has a uniqueness there, and it sticks out because of that. And if I'm being sort of corny about it, but it's a lot of truth in it, I'll say all of them are my favorite episode because I'm able to connect with folks and be able to perhaps learn something. But these ones stick out for these reasons. So lobbying it over to you, what is a project? Or a number of projects that come to mind that show that you feel a lot of pride in or satisfaction. The development of.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:49:08 - 00:51:19]
Feel a lot like what? How you feel like. Because the whole of the podcast is the project, but it's always the next one. And right now, I was rolling over in My head, this idea about a year ago into, like, the summer about running for office as, like, satire and parody. Yeah. And then I was like, there's no way to parody this. There's no satire that can get ridiculous enough. Parody what we're doing right now. Right. It's just. It's all happening. There's a clown up there who's known for, like, you know, he's known for TV and had gold toilets in the 80s. What are you going to do with that? Like, he's. He's what? He's what poor people think rich people look like. Right. Like, what I would do if I was rich is I'd have a gold whole apartment. And you're just like, okay. But, like, okay, what's the money for, though? A gold apartment. And then what? I'll stack more money. Okay. And then I can buy more property. Like, what did Charles Barkley say? You can only drive one car at a time. Right. So what I'm thinking is not thinking, but doing is I'm going to run for office starting, you know, when the semester ends. Yeah. And I'm just going to run for office straight. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's it. And, like, because I really like the paintings, and I'm gonna do a bunch of different paintings. There's a whole bunch of stuff I have to do. But the projects that excite me the most are usually the next project. Yeah. And I, like, somebody was saying, I don't know what to do next. And I've never had that problem because I've got, like, so many things that I have to do, and there's, like, there's not enough time to complete it. And so I'm just gonna do them all at the same time. I love that.
Rob Lee:
[00:51:20 - 00:51:34]
And I'll be remiss if you haven't heard, I'll send it your way. That what you were describing about what poor people think. A rich person. That's a John Mulaney joke. It is so funny. He's like, I'll have golden hair and I'll hire my family and I'll fire people.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:51:36 - 00:53:08]
Yeah. Yeah. It's like when I was, like, in the middle school, like, all of the kids wanted to be rich. Right. And I'm like, okay, why? And they're like, so I can be rich. Okay. And then what are you gonna do? Like, I'm gonna get the biggest house I can get. Cool. You've got the biggest house. What are you gonna do now? I'm gonna get the fastest car. Cool. You've got it. I'm gonna get another one. You've got 10 cars, the best 10 cars you can possibly get. What are you gonna do now? I'm gonna eat the best food. Fridge is stock chef. You're gonna eat whatever you want. Now what are you gonna do? I don't know. No, no, no. That's the question. Yeah. You've got all of the things covered. What are you going to do now, like. And if you come to the end of that and you're like, okay, I got this covered, I got this covered. I got this covered. I got this cover covered. You know what? I always wanted to, like, run a baseball team, like a Little league baseball team, because that's where I had the most fun in my life. Maybe you should just be teaching Little league baseball. Maybe you don't need to do all of the other stuff where you've got, you know, 50,000 square foot mansion or like a 20,000 square foot mansion. What did Michael Irvin's son say? He lived in, like a 40,000 square foot mansion. Maybe you don't need that. Maybe you need like 1200-1800ft and you can like, you can run Little League team.
Rob Lee:
[00:53:09 - 00:54:42]
It's. It's also, I think I go to this J. Cole interview and he's just like, when you get enough money, and I'm paraphrasing, get enough money or what have you. And it's like, what's the next thing? He's like, I'm not in this for money. I'm not in this for downloads, hits, whatever. He's like, I'm in this for love. And it's something that's a little bit more vague and incomprehensible. And people will look at you crazy. And I get really caught on this. And this is where some of my looking up to the Gen Xers come into play of this notion of selling out. You guys do not jam with that. And I find more and more people are with this idea of, well, whatever you got to do to get the bag, I don't respect that. It goes back to the money thing and the business thing we were talking about earlier. And when people ask me, where do you want to go with this and how far do you want to go? And I was like, I have some things that I want to do, but it's very dependent on what I want to do. And no one's asking me for this. No one's asking you for your work. Right. And it's just, it has to be something else that drives it. And I don't want anyone asking me for it. I want somebody maybe curious or give me feedback. But I want to be beholden to no one in that way. Because it's like, that's not the. That's not my motivator. That's not my reason. My reason is to engage in these conversations with people and maybe get something that someone takes from it. Or at least at a minimum, that I take something from it. And I'm like, oh, I feel a little bit smarter. That can sound more interesting and have something outside of those three topics we talked about earlier to say at a dinner party to make it full circle.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:54:43 - 00:56:57]
Yeah, it's amazing when you have that sort of thing. I'll say it another way. This story I like to tell. When I was living in Richmond, that's the job that I engineered or firing for. I was going to quit, but they fired me before I could quit. Maybe my attitude was showing through, but I went to this place. It's Elliot Thompson's. It's a natural food store at the end of the fan where I was living. And I bought this high end, freshly made raisin bread in a loaf. This was back in like the, like the 99 to 2000, like right about there. And it was back before everything like blew out of proportion. And you have to slice it with your own like bread knife. And then I got these crushed peanuts that made the peanut spread and this, this jam, this high end jam. And I took that back to the apartment, I sliced it up, I put it together, I toasted it because I like it. Toasted raisin bread sandwich. And I brought it and I was about to eat it and I was like, what the. I just made a 20 peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Like, what? I'm like, maybe. And I started looking at my life and everything I had was just more expensive versions of what you needed. Like, I had a better car than I had before. I didn't have an 85 centra. Yeah, the 85 central never broke down. Yeah, like it got in the car accident, but it never broke down. Like, my apartment was nice. Like it was nice. I had a tree outside. It was in a really nice part of town. But like it was still just a one bedroom apartment. Right. Like, what, what I needed wasn't the better version of the thing. I just doesn't need to be comfortable. I didn't need the extra money. Yeah, like when you know what you need and you know what you want, it provides that freedom.
Rob Lee:
[00:56:58 - 00:57:19]
That's good. It's a good point. I think that's where we can close on the real questions. And I was, what reason I started laughing. I was like, my man's over here making artisanal peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:57:19 - 00:57:32]
It was so. It was so artisanal. It was like an inch of bread. It looked like the peanut spread had, like. It had one of the things where it had peanuts in it and you stick it yourself.
Rob Lee:
[00:57:32 - 00:57:33]
The Whole Foods joint.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:57:34 - 00:57:44]
Yeah. Yeah, but this was before Whole Foods. This was. This was back when, like, Whole Foods wasn't even a dream, right? It was so. It was so extra.
Rob Lee:
[00:57:45 - 00:58:00]
So I got. I got three rapid fire questions I want to hit you with before we close out here. Don't overthink these. These are real quick. So first one, if you could have a giant billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:58:01 - 00:58:02]
You're good. You're doing all right.
Rob Lee:
[00:58:02 - 00:58:12]
It's good. Let's see, what is one small creative ritual or habit that you rely on that most people wouldn't know about?
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:58:13 - 00:58:36]
Clean your fucking studio. At the end of whenever you're working, you have to have wherever you work ready for you to come back and work. Because if you have to come in and clean, you're not going to work. So before you leave the studio, put everything away, clean everything up, put everything back where you're able to make work when you come back.
Rob Lee:
[00:58:37 - 00:58:50]
Good point. I cleaned up a little bit before I put on the mics, and I was like, I feel like I have more space in here now because I got this new microphone arm, and I was like, I need to tighten this up a little bit. So, yeah, I feel like more work is being made versus me hanging out and watching games on a vpn.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:58:51 - 00:59:03]
Yeah. Put your paint away, have this squared away so it's clean. Clean water in each one of these. So if I come back, I can just. Oh, I can just start to paint. I don't need to do all of this before I start. I'm just ready.
Rob Lee:
[00:59:04 - 00:59:23]
All right, this is the last one I got for you. This is a really weird one. I just thought of it. I think it's funny. Have you ever. Do you drink while you're painting? Because you mentioned those. The water that's right there. Have you ever had one of those situations where it's like, all right, I almost drank the brush water or what have you.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:59:24 - 00:59:47]
No, no, no. I don't have food around here. Okay. Like, I don't really like food that much. Like, I'm waiting for those George Jetson pills where you can just pop them it's just such an effort, like the cooking and the preparation and like, all of the stuff to just be mediocre.
Rob Lee:
[00:59:48 - 00:59:50]
Like in the digestion and the.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[00:59:51 - 00:59:58]
And then some of it makes you sleepy. Yeah. So people don't like that, but, yeah.
Rob Lee:
[00:59:59 - 01:00:03]
Macronutrients, they're, you know, the bane of the existence. I guess so.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[01:00:03 - 01:00:23]
But I have. I have registered, not registered, specific places where I do specific things. So this is like the painting area, like, so I only paint here. There's like the couch and sitting area. Only relaxing. I can't do anything real over there because I'll just lack. And there's like another, you know, I.
Rob Lee:
[01:00:23 - 01:00:35]
Dig it, like, how things have broken down. It's like I have a quadrant in my mind and things that must be done here for this purpose. I hear you. So that's kind of it for the rapid fire. So you off the hot seat. So thank you for that.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[01:00:35 - 01:00:36]
And.
Rob Lee:
[01:00:36 - 01:00:45]
And two, tell the fine folks where they can follow you, check you out, and stay up to date on all that you have going on. The floor is yours, please.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[01:00:46 - 01:01:10]
Yeah, I think it's the Kumasi at everything. And kumasajbarvet.com is the website which needs to be updated because, you know, paperwork, but, you know, don't follow me. I have no idea where I'm going. Like, I don't. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, the Tiktoks are interesting because they're just advice I want to give my daughter that she won't listen to.
Rob Lee:
[01:01:11 - 01:01:12]
That's good.
Kumasi J.Barnett:
[01:01:12 - 01:01:18]
So, like, I'm hoping one day she'll see them and be like, oh, but it probably won't last that long.
Rob Lee:
[01:01:18 - 01:01:34]
And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Kumasi J Period Barnett for coming back onto the podcast and running it back with me. And for Kumasi, I am Rob Lee, saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it.
