Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth In Its Art, your source for conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I'm excited to be running it back with my next guest, a remarkable Baltimore-based artist who I had the pleasure of speaking with a few years ago.
My guest is known for their mural work, mixed media work, illustration, as well as venturing into education and curation now with an emphasis on all of these on collaborative community art. So please welcome back to the program, Kai Vassar. Welcome back to the podcast.
Ky Vassor: Thank you for having me.
Rob Lee: So to start, I want to go back. It's been a couple of years. I'm still trying to reason through the timing, and timing is a flat circle and all that good stuff. But to start, could you give the listeners a sense of your journey, your background? Could you reintroduce yourself and your core artistic values?
Ky Vassor: Absolutely. I guess reintroducing myself as I am, my name is Ky Vassor. I am an interdisciplinary artist, an art educator, as well as a curator based here in Baltimore. I'm also originally from Baltimore, pailing from over west to be exact.
Rob Lee: I still don't believe that. I still don't believe that part. We're going. Okay, fine. That's fine. That's fine.
Ky Vassor: And yeah, you know, I've had a very interesting journey within the arts. It's definitely not a linear one. My journey actually started off with me dropping out of school and kind of having to find my way by working as an arts educator, as well as volunteering at a bunch of different places. And I did that for several years. Actually I think even upon our first interview, I think I was still like working a night job and still had kind of art as my day job. So I was kind of like working as a friendly neighborhood bartender for several years. And you know, had, would volunteer and work at like different galleries, as well as, you know, again, do various workshops and seminars as an educator until I went to grad school. So I graduated with my MFA in community arts and I think it was in 2023. Don't get me the long, but I think it was 2023. Yeah.
Rob Lee: That's, that's great. Like, you know, and thank you, like in following, you know, from, you know, I looked at the new CV, the new and improved CV. I mean, it is, I was like, yo, this is some work with little here.
I was like, how many line items in here? And I, you know, following that journey, we've seen each other since so happy. It's not like, you know, I was in a frozen block and you were in a frozen block for the last like four years. And then now we're just back with it.
And it's, it's cool to, to see that journey from afar. Cause I remember, I remember school popping up the grad, grad school situation. Remember that.
And I remember maybe having one of your strengths or seeing you in the bartending, you know, bartending at one point. And so yeah. And you know, I remember the whole, what is it? Hot Sauce, Artist Collective, all of this different stuff, all of this different stuff in the sort of time. And as I look at the very like great CV, I noticed the community arts pops up over and over again, this sort of collaboration and all. So what does community arts mean to you? And what do you find most rewarding about it? Absolutely.
Ky Vassor: Um, so something that I, I absolutely love about community arts. And I think really what it means to me at, at its core is working with and not for a community, you know, so I always say that when I go into communities and work on various projects, um, it's really just to uplift the voices and really, um, the substance of what's already there. And I think that's what's been the most rewarding about the work that I've kind of, um, I've transitioned into doing, not that I haven't always been doing that work, but more formally kind of calling myself a community artist or community curator. Um, yeah, I think that that's, that's the most rewarding part, especially since a lot of the communities that I've worked with over time have kind of, you know, candidly let me know that at times they're hesitant to work with artists because, you know, some artists have kind of maybe spoken on their behalf in ways that don't communicate what they actually feel as people that have to live with the work, you know? And I think about that, especially with like the more that I've stepped into doing mural projects, um, you know, these are usually murals or public facing things that people every day have to look at and live with, whether the artist is there or not. So it's something I've, I've taken, um, I've taken quite personally, I think, especially being a Baltimore native and sometimes having to live in places where I'm like, who did put up that mural? Is that reflective of me?
Ky Vassor: And how I feel as a young black kid here? I don't know. Yeah.
Rob Lee: Yeah. It's, you know, I think an area we both are familiar with in arts area. I don't want to be too specific here, but an arts area has the name attached to the title for the area. You know, I see certain things there that I'm like, this is, this looks like a California aesthetic and it has that literally a font that's associated with sort of like Mr. Cartoon or what have you in the, and so I see that, then I saw like in that same area, someone tag it with literally what I'm saying.
This is not California. You know, and I think that speaks to it. It's just like, yeah, you know, we have the funding to, to sort of put this thing up or it's representative of the community, but I do almost that same thing. Did you talk to the community?
Or did you, you know, are you speaking for them? I mean, I know about ventriloquism and all that, but you know, I don't know if it works in that level.
Ky Vassor: Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's also one of those things. Um, so something in grad school, I was especially interested in investigating where like the ethics surrounding public arts in general, and that's kind of a lot of what my research and writing was about in grad school and even some of my, um, you know, hands on kind of site work was about. Um, and, you know, overwhelmingly, I think something else, a lot of artists don't really think about a lot is who's funding these projects, especially in a place like Baltimore or something I've had to consider a lot is like, should I take on this, this project? Um, not just for, not, not just, and not just from the standpoint of like the community members trying to commission it, but is it a larger company? Is it an institution? Is it, um, you know, um, are these folks, are folks trying to develop over and an entire neighborhood?
And, you know, a lot of artists kind of unknowingly are helping with some of that development, unfortunately. So I've tried to, again, just be very careful. Um, and then things that I've done. Yeah.
Rob Lee: I, I, I feel that, and I find that just in my lane, before I move into this, this next part, this next question is, I had to make those sort of same considerations, you know, I was sharing with you a little bit earlier, sort of, you know, where I think this podcast fits or where I fit in, in terms of a few different things, but I find with sort of this, uh, divestment, divestment in, you know, sort of arts journalism and arts and culture related journalism and so on. You know, there are so many different folks who are coming with this sort of opportunity pitch and I'm like, yeah, I think I'm good. I think I can kind of get the people I want to talk to versus this great opportunity, but you know, just immediately ignore it.
I do that sort of like, all right, who are you? What is this about? How's this being funded? And, you know, I'm thinking about it because I, and I think all of it, right? That no one is asking me to do this podcast. No one's asking you to do your work. No one's asking us to do any of this stuff. So it has to be this element of there's a desire for it and there's the support around it and you want to make sure the alignment makes sense too.
Ky Vassor: Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Making, just making sure, you know, it's a reciprocal relationship no matter what. And I do think that that is kind of like a defining factor of community art versus other forms of art is that again, yeah, you really do have to work super collaboratively, almost uncomfortably, collaboratively with folks. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Rob Lee: So, and I think we're kind of touching on a little bit. So your art career, right? Because it's a career. I'll say really your art life. It's a life. How has it evolved over the last five years? Like obviously, you know, mentioning grad school, obviously mentioning some of the things you've learned in that time. In terms of opportunities, in terms of projects and even sort of like direction, because I can maybe look at that first interview you and I did, my perspective is going to be different, I would hope. And I should be better at what I'm doing than I was then. And that's where I would kind of look at progress for me and sort of the evolution for me. So pass that question to you. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: I, you know, it's interesting because, like I said earlier, no parts of my art career, whether the beginnings when we kind of, you know, met for that podcast or even up until now has been linear. So I feel like that it's the trajectory has kind of been all over the place in different ways, which I'm thankful for.
I'm thankful for it always going upward, but me sometimes feeling like, oh my goodness, what's next? But the one thing I will say is that the thing that's kind of grounded me and helped me continue to elevate in my career and maybe even guide me has been that element of community, honestly. I feel like, for instance, when I was in grad school, it's so funny. I had a lot of professors and mentors tell me they were like, Hey, Kai, um, I think you need to teach after you, like on an academic level after you, you leave. And I was, I kind of told them the beginning of grad school was like, no, that's not happening. I've, I've been teaching for almost 10 years. No.
Rob Lee: I'm all set. I think I'm good with the teaching. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: I was like, I think what if I'm fine? And they were like, but what if? Well, what if you, you don't, what if you don't close the door?
Ky Vassor: You know, um, so it's, I think it's been really interesting because there are a lot of things I couldn't have projected about my career. Um, you know, I honestly didn't think I would have all these hyphenates in terms of being a professor, being an AD and doing freelance stuff and all that other stuff. So I just say that to say it's, it's hard for me to be like, I had one linear path.
I didn't. I, you know, even after grad school, I was kind of trying to figure out, um, what gallery work would look like for me. You know, um, I currently work at gallery in Matisse and started that work while I was in grad school as an intern and worked my way up. Um, but even in working my way up, I was still sort of like, uh, trying to figure out, is there a career path, um, or specific, you know, one specific job that will fill me as like, uh, as an artist, me as an arts administrator, as well as an educator. And I ended up, um, sorry, this is kind of a roundabout way of saying, I ended up coming to the point of realizing I need to be multi-hyphenate, um, in my path to feel, you know, satisfied in a way with my career and my long-term journey. Um, so yeah, I just, I just say all that to say. I, I have always lived in multiple spaces and it's kind of been nice seeing that fold out in kind of my art career as well, me being able to, to live in multiple spaces, um, and almost being pushed to live in these, in these different, sometimes seeming desperate spaces. So yeah, I don't know if that was an answer to both.
Rob Lee: No, no, it was. And I think I'll even add this sort of extra flourish to it. Um, because I'm curious about sort of the, almost painting a picture. So this is a storytelling podcast, right? Um, so in, in following sort of that nonlinear journey, you know, was it like the steady climb? Was it more of like a roller coaster? What, you know, and I know you've used the sort of nonlinear, I kept thinking of a spider web for some reason, but in, in that, you know, was it also like, well, actually I have to answer that part first, actually the roller coaster or, you know, sort of that, that steady climb. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: No, I'll tell a lot of you, you know, just felt like it
Ky Vassor: felt, it definitely felt like, um, Hmm. Something I say a lot now, I can use this analogy because I say it a lot now is that I feel like, um, the work I do is working towards the future that I don't know if I'm going to be a part of. And that's kind of how it has always felt like, I think it almost this climbing in a muck, in a mud, but you don't know what you don't know what or where you want it.
Ky Vassor: So I say that to say,
Ky Vassor: yeah, that is very, it, it has been very turbulent, even scary. A lot of things that I had to learn for sure on my own, you know, without the safety net, especially of, um, of an institution or mentors, um, and had to do that for a really long time for at least six, I want to say for at least six or seven years into my career. Um, so yeah, there were, there was a, and that's something I'm also really candid, even with my students about, you know, which is why I'm so forthcoming about dropping out of school, dropping out of college. Um, because at the time that I had to, that was a huge, that was a huge thing for me, you know? Um, so, uh, I just say that to say, uh, yeah, it definitely has been a battle. I had to fight to get to the point that I'm at now. Um, I used to, I went from, you know, working and volunteering during the day to going and working like a full-time night job to after that, I would go and draw, you know, and make any art that I could. So I always tell people, I had to literally fight myself at times just to, to push myself to make the work, you know? Um, and even now, you know, I thought that I would, I thought that after graduating, you know, that that would stop the hustle, but it really only shows you that those nights that you spent staying up, all that other stuff was preparing you for kind of the larger blessings that you're praying for, at least for me. So.
Rob Lee: I think in part it builds, uh, capacity, um, in, in, in terms of, you know, when, when something gets hard, you're doing multiple things. You have any sort of shifts and pivots, you know, I hear about the cancers, you know, they're crabs, right? They, they have to, you know, really go, go forward, you know, side to side backwards and, but, but I think there's opportunity in that sort of side to side thing, right? And the other thing I'll, I'll say month is like more like bumper cars. You know, there's, if there's anything there, it's like, I gotta move out of the way.
I gotta make my own lane. And, you know, I think, and I'm, and I'm hearing it and I go back to that CV. I was referring to earlier CV. Um, there's so many items in there that shows the sort of diverse array that once combined together, there's something that you're taking from it that just feels like it makes sense where you're at now. And, you know, obviously, and, you know, what do you feel really kind of helped open doors in that way of just doing a lot, staying busy, having that sort of, that sort of hustle, because when you're doing a lot of stuff, you're around a lot of, you know, opportunity and you learn a lot, I suppose. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: I mean, I think one of the, one of the things that I think helps is aid, the fact that, you know, um, because at a very young age, I had to go out and work and just make it make sense eating.
Ky Vassor: But, you know, I, I'll, I think, and I think I said this, I'm not sure if I said this the first episode, but I think something I appreciate about the way that I was brought up, um, especially from the standpoint of like my dad, he was really big on this idea of like starving artists don't exist. Like art is a business. You're either like a successful business or it's not, it's not working, you know, and you was like, if you're going to make this your thing, it's got to work. You know, so that's always kind of been my ethos, honestly. I think it's also a part of why, you know, some days I'd be working just wild hours that I don't, and I don't want to say all that stuff as, um, to glamorize it either. I don't really want anybody to have to go through some of the things I went through to get to this point in my career. But I do say that to say that, like he said, um, sometimes working 12 to 15 hours, it builds your capacity, you know, and sometimes you build your capacity because you know that again, without that, without some folks that maybe went through traditional schooling and had the safety net of, um, had had certain safety nets that maybe I didn't or maybe certain connections, you kind of have to go out and build those, you know, so it made me more inclined to build my own community around me. Um, you know, it made me more inclined to even volunteer for people and just be like, Hey, how can I show up for you? I'm not in a traditional school setting. So how do, how can I just learn from anyone around me? Whether it's somebody I'm catching the bus with or somebody that runs an institution. Yeah.
Rob Lee: And the capacity thing, before I move into this, this next question, it's going to talk about some recent works and recent projects. Um, you know, I think about sort of that year and I like that you mentioned like, I don't know if I would glamorize it or recommend it for someone, but I think of that year when I did nearly an episode a day, I put out nearly an episode a day and folks will get me like, I'm out of my mind. I'm like, eh, you know, it's, it's light work for me or this was normal for me. And I come from that era of, you know, I don't really take days off and time off and trying to find that, that balance.
And I think now I learned from that where if I take too much of a time away from it, you know, from doing these interviews and so on, I'm out of practice and rusty. Yeah. You know, it's, there's art in having a conversation with someone. It's there. There's an artfulness that's there.
And they, at least that's in my attempt. And you know, when I was doing that with such a volume, it's just like, I don't have time to think. I just have time to do. So now having time to spend there, but having that sort of those, those hours, almost like you have to get a certain amount of community service hours, hours behind the wheel, all that stuff. It's like, I can look on that as experience from doing so much. You know, 300 plus, plus in a year is a lot. So now if I'm doing like, hey, 75 in a year, that's, that's like light work for me. Yeah. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: No, absolutely. It's, it's also one of those things where, um, because now I stepped into a new role at the gallery as well as even, um, stepping into a professor role at in the same program that I graduated from. It makes it easier for me to kind of walk through students as well as community members that are going through the same things that I was going through. Um, I think especially to make things like taking on large projects, um, and multiple large projects that once less daunting for people. Um, yeah.
Rob Lee: No, that's, that's really good. I mean, you know, I had this thing, uh, I want to say last year where I was brought in to, to do some podcasts for Artscape and I was like, cool, let's do it.
Let's make it happen. And it was like so many reasons why just for my own personal preferences, I would just say no, I was like, yeah, I want to have my weekend. I want to do this. I want to go ahead and I had to think about it. I was like, all right, let's use go getter mindset.
Yo, it's literally, you're going to do a number of podcasts in this sort of timeframe. It's light. You've done this before. Don't even stress it.
You've got this. And then it was able to work out and then I was able to grow, I think what I'm able to do and feel like I'm in a sort of better spot and having those sorts of relationships because in doing this, and I think a lot of artists run into this where you're doing something that might be solo individual and so on. And, but being in a sort of different capacity, you're, you're stretching, you're stretching yourself out a bit to see like, really, what is the boundaries of what I can do? All right. Now I can extend past that boundary. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: Yeah. And I think that testing those limits within yourself, like, um, a part of why I really appreciate our first conversation is because looking back on it, it's, it's so funny. I used to think that, um, a lot of the goals that I had at the time, and I think I communicated some of them on the podcast were like the biggest, they were, they were the biggest things that I could think of.
And kind of looking back and being like, wow, sweetie, you, you need to dream bigger. You need to dream. Your capacity is a lot bigger now. You need to dream bigger.
Rob Lee: Wait training. It's like, man, I couldn't lift that much. Man, that's, that's a bad Monday. I'm good, man. So I want to, I want to move into, um, some, some more of the recent projects. Um, cause you recently completed sanctuary city, uh, one in two as mural project. Uh, could you speak on sort of the, the core message and what aims you to convey, would you, would you aim to convey through those murals and do that work?
Ky Vassor: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, there, there were several things. Uh, first, I think the first thing I'd, I'd just like to say is that, um, more than anything, this, this initiative was kind of started through the church and I was lucky enough to be, um, unanimously chosen by them on their selection panel to execute the project.
So I'm just thankful that they looked at my proposal and were like, this communicates what we wanted to, um, I'll also say that the Govins Presbyterian, they started this project, um, to confront institutional racism that they benefited as, um, as like a, as an institution from overtime. Sorry, that was pretty repetitive. It was like institution, institution.
Obviously. Um, and I think that that's a part of why I was also so interested in the project besides the fact that it was a church confronting their history of racism, um, as well as kind of trying to think of action plans as a community to move forward and to kind of talk about the diversity of their community now or even things that, um, things that the congregation across the board are concerned with as a community. So, um, I think first and foremost, it was really important for me to acknowledge the enslaved people that were on the land, um, that Govins is currently on. Um, so there are about 30 names of those formerly enslaved people on the mural. Um, it was also important to me to acknowledge, um, underrepresented leaders, um, or under highlighted leaders from across Baltimore, such as Lily and Kim, who helped look like the Chinese American, um, or Chinese immigrant communities of folks that were immigrating over into America.
Um, so at such as her or Lucille Gorham or Polly Murray, just folks like that. Um, and also it was important to acknowledge, um, you know, still ongoing forms of institutional racism that are existing here in Baltimore and how it still affects young people to this day, which is why there are folks like, uh, Corrin Gaines as well as Freddie Gray. There's kind of symbols acknowledging both of them in the mural as well as, and as well as like an emblem to, for the, um, Latino racial, racial justice circle, kind of to acknowledge the highway workers that died in 2023, as well as, um, the Latino as well as Hispanic folks that died in 2024 because of the bridge accident. Um, so, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a pretty multi layer long story.
Sorry. It's a pretty well, multi layered mural that I, I hope acknowledges kind of some of the, um, the folks that have fought against forms of institutional racism here in the city, as well as some of what we really need to still tackle as a community and speak on as a community to this day. Yeah.
Rob Lee: You know, and I, and I like that that is covering multiple facets, you know, as far as who's, who's included, who's story is shared through, through the mural, through the work, because I think at times, you know, and I've run into it, um, behind the scenes, nobody really puts it out there publicly. Why are you talking to these people? Why are you not talking to these people? I was like, I'm just a group of so many different types of people, different communities to exclude for whatever reason, just doesn't really serve that overall story justice and just someone's left out and sort of using this guide of what comes across my radar, you know what I mean? And I think being able to capture the, the community, um, or different facets of the community through that work is, is very important. And you know, I think in again, going through sort of the process, what was the, you know, experience like from maybe those, those any challenges or sort of rewarding aspects of it. And I know there was a gratitude piece there, um, but talk a bit about, you know, sort of what was rewarding, like maybe a project of this scale or what was particularly challenging?
Ky Vassor: Yeah, I could, I could easily talk about some of the challenges. I can talk about how rewarding it is all day, because it's, it's definitely been super rewarding. Um, largest project I've completed up until this point, it's eight and a half feet tall and about three feet wide. And it's two panels. So it's, it's a pretty large project. Um, also took around a year to complete, uh, which completing a project of that size scale and with the research we had to do, really pleased with it. Um, gotten lots of write ups, really pleased with it. And thankful. Um, some challenges though, cause honestly, I haven't really talked, I'm gonna be honest with you, Rob.
I haven't really talked to anybody. So, um, some challenges, one of the biggest things, um, was, was and is that they are, Govins has been doing, um, a lot of research to kind of rediscover its history, especially since they had a pretty large fire. I don't, I don't remember the years, I'm not going to lie to you, but they had a look, they had a pretty large fire, um, that kind of took out a lot of their older records. Um, so that being said, there was a lot that, um, was being uncovered as I was working on the mural. And one of the things that was uncovered was that Govins was on a former plantation land in the middle of a, really towards the end, basically the mural was finished and we found out it was on a former plantation land. Um, so, uh, I remember, I think that was honestly one of the, the tougher parts about the project, besides the fact that they were very upfront with me about, Hey, um, some of the folks that previously donated and were originally con, original congregation members of the church own slaves, like not, they were in flavors, you know, that I think for me as a black person, really tough, really, really, really tough, not necessarily just confronting their history, but my own personal histories, right?
Is that was not easy. I think that also, um, I ended up having to read through the will of the owner of that, that land to find the, um, the formerly enslaved folks names. Um, it was my rebrochus who was, uh, kind of the primary researcher and volunteer, volunteer researcher at that for Govins. Um, she provided me the records and we read through them together one day. So deciphering all 30 of those names as written as property in someone's will was really tough. That was, that was really tough.
I can't lie. Um, I think also just confronting the more recent histories of folks like, and not just folks that people, I think would immediately think of, like, Freddie Gray and Corrine Gaines. Um, but it was also really tough acknowledging, you know, um, It was also really tough thinking about the lives of the Latino, the Latino workers as well as the Hispanic folks that passed because there were two different accidents that happened while I was creating the mural. In a lot of that, you know, a lot of people didn't weren't attributing it to institutional reforms of systemic racism at the time, but that's what it was. That's a part of the reason why they weren't protected in a way where these, all those men are still, would have still been living to this day. So I think things like that, to be honest, were very difficult to grapple with over the course of creating the mural, especially since it was about a year.
So sometimes, you know, I'd be a little bit removed from it and then come right back into that confrontation. So that push and pull could be a little tough, but I really appreciated the fact that it seemed like the church was really supportive of the mural in general, especially me, especially everything that I put in there. I was kind of concerned that they would tell me, you know, I don't know if I want a squeegee kid in there. I was afraid of stuff like that, but they were, they were on board and sort of like, how do we, how do you want us to explain this to the congregation?
You know, let us know the language you want us to use, and that's what we'll say. So I just say all that to say that, yeah, the history was the toughest part. That was the toughest part for sure. Yeah.
Rob Lee: And thank you for that. That perspective is really interesting and having, you know, confronting like history, you know, one is no shot at the place, but, you know, one of the biggest employers, you know, in the city is, you know, Hopkins. And I remember when that stuff started coming out and there was this core surround sort of, you know, the history and the slave component and all of that stuff, enslaved people, all of that stuff and people trying to grapple and wrestle with it. But it was whispers for the longest time about some of those things. And I say all that to say like places that are old, Baltimore is old. So, you know, every place has like a history. You're like, all right, let me just look back 50 years.
It's like, all right, that's a little tough. Let me go look back 150 years. All right.
I kind of regret looking back 150 years. I don't think I'm going to sleep all night, you know, but it's important to know it to not, especially now with things being suppressed, things being redacted, blacklined out to really be able to go into that and do work or show work that really says, Hey, this is right here. You know, this is important. Yay. Look, enjoy the art. But also might want to look into that history too, along with that. It's a good accompaniment.
Ky Vassor: It's a good accompaniment. Yeah, for sure.
Ky Vassor: And I feel you. I feel you. And I, you know, it's crazy because one of the questions that I was on. Midday with Tom Hall is a part of like promotion for the mural. And one of the things that he asked, I think, was like, why do you why do you find it important to put something you would usually see in a gallery setting in a church?
And I didn't get to fully answer because I only had like 30 seconds on it. But just really quickly, I, you know, I don't think that people realize how many public spaces outside of like schools or, you know, just other academic institutions have acted as points of resistance, points of, you know, points of congregation for community to kind of go over the lows of the time. And churches in a lot of ways have always kind of been that pillar in communities to talk through, to talk through social issues, not just what's happening in your immediate neighborhood, but even what's happening at times overseas. So I think it was important to me, especially as an educator now more than ever to bring that conversation to a place where people quite literally are praying a sanctuary, you know, as well as now that ice is kind of infiltrating Baltimore is especially it was its time. Yes.
Rob Lee: And I think the other thing that that stood out to me in thinking about that question is a good question. And it's a great answer. But even this notion of almost like meeting community where they're at in a sense of like, you know, you have some people and I'm not going to go to a gallery a lot like the going to the church, there's a nice cross section of all different types of people that will go there because, you know, sometimes people will go to a gallery. I don't know art. I'm afraid I'm not going to go in there and check that out, but going to a place of worship and a place of sanctuary that just has an appeal in a different way. And it's one of those sort of like third spaces, you know, yeah, no, absolutely. So I'm going to move into this other project that I see lift every voice is a collaboration with recreation and parks.
Ky Vassor: Yeah. You talk about that a little bit. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: So we I pitched a proposal to recreation and parks this past year to collaborate with some of my MFA and community art students on a semester long project where essentially they would be doing small workshops at different recreation centers throughout the city, as well as creating artwork throughout the semester to eventually show in one of recreation and parks rec centers. So speaking about bringing the art to the people and not telling the people that actually was kind of like a large pillar in why I wanted to do this project and especially to bridge.
I feel like a gap I see in larger institutions, anchor institutions like Micah and the communities that are not just in their immediate vicinity, but also in farther reaches of the city. So my students already have done or executed workshops at Cahill Recreation Center, Ella Bailey, as well as Mount Royal. And next week on April the 26th, they'll be debuting an exhibition at Cahill Recreation Center.
So I'm really excited about that. And I hope it kind of also encourages other people, not just inside of Micah, but also outside to kind of just reframe the bounds that they think of when they think of an exhibition. They don't all just have to happen in galleries or institutions. They should also be happening, you know, whether it be in recreation centers or other public spaces that are accessible to community members.
Rob Lee: That's wonderful. And it's, I think it's a good point you're making there too, where I think now is a really, really good time to reimagine and re-envision like how we do a lot of these things as far as bringing art, bringing discourse, bringing conversation that art is at the forefront of it to the community. Like, you know, a lot of these things, the economy and all that stuff is down. So I think when those things happen, there's an opportunity to rethink how we go about it. You know, just in talking with you, I'm trying to keep these ideas in my head for the post conversation, just different ideas.
Like, hey, what do you think of this? And, you know, it's just the notion of being that sort of like rec centers. It's something about that. And, you know, it's right there.
Like work is being done. I think of places that, you know, have, you know, art as an additional thing. But the key is people are meeting at these places and are able to do something like I think of meander art bar.
And it's like, I don't know, come through, hang out. But also you should do something creative here. Here's some supplies to make stuff. And that's really cool. And it's a time where it doesn't really cost a lot. It doesn't really cost. But it has to be, I think, people thinking towards the goal and towards serving folks.
Ky Vassor: Yeah. No, absolutely. And that's a part of what I really wanted. You know, the nice thing about, and one of the interesting things I think about teaching at Micah is that there's so many students, or at least half of the class. Yeah, I'd say half of the class, if not more than half of the class isn't from Baltimore City. Right.
So a lot of them not having contacts at all for the city or some of the histories that surround it. It's been really nice being able to push them to, again, see the value, not just in, you know, a BMA, but also see the value in community organizations like recreation and parks. You know, it's so funny. It's funny, the amount of people I've talked to about the collaboration that have been like, wait a second.
Ky Vassor: What recreation and parks do? And I'm like, yeah, so you see that park right across from here? You see that? You see all of them? Yeah.
Ky Vassor: They've done all of these. You know, it's like over a hundred parks. Besides that, the amount of recreation, as well as the recreation centers and other public spaces, that's kind of, that's the other driving point, I think, for the project is trying to connect neighbors in Baltimore back to the environment that's right there around them.
You know, there's so many people that don't know that there are, you know, we have one of the largest, I want to say the third largest public park in the country is here in Baltimore. Lincoln Park is right here. It's right outside of where we'll be doing. Cahill is right across from it, where we'll be having the exhibition. And, you know, it's just even bringing awareness to something as small as that, like, hey, we should be supporting organizations that are running such large and public spaces, green spaces here. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee: I get energized. I take a walk every morning. I take a walk through Patterson Park and energy. And I'm like, all right, man, what's in here? Man, what's I got inside?
Hey, Art in there. I'll be looking at like the rec center over there. And then you have like this other space. I'm like, oh, you'll see like signage. And it's things to, I think they do like Art in the Park. They do different markets and they do maybe film series. And it's like an opportunity to get people together. And there's a craft component. There's an art component, there's a film component. And it's like, yes, you can be outside, go to a park, paint, do something.
Ky Vassor: Yeah. No, for sure. It's like it's also kind of showing people, you know, the better that we take care of one another and ourselves, the better we can take care of the environment around us, because it's all really connected. So I really do hope that, you know, I hope for a few things, but I really do hope that it speaks to the community members that often use Cahill Recreation Center. I also, you know, selfishly or not selfishly, but but I also wanted to establish this partnership because so the MFA program, the MFA and Community Arts Program, a lot of these students that are there, they're working adults.
They are required to be at a site for, I think, around 30 hours a week, between 20 and 30 hours a week. And, you know, I was one of those, I was one of those people that had to find my own site and was kind of struggling, even outside of, you know, entering for the gallery was really struggling, especially to find more community, just other community sites that had a little bit of flexibility as well as that we're paying, Lord, that we're paying. And, you know, something I'm really proud of with this project is that Recreation and Park seems committed to making this an ongoing partnership with the MFA and Community Arts Program and potentially, you know, offering kind of jobs to some of the next cohorts that come in, you know, so I'm happy that it feels like it's holistically helping and not just being this thing where we're throwing more Micah people into different places and calling it community because that's not what, that's not, and no shade, but that's, I just, I see it, I just see it happen. I went to a high school where that was a thing. They just threw some Micah people in and were like, this is community outreach, right? It's like, no, no, this is not.
Ky Vassor: So I, that's great.
Rob Lee: No, that whole thing is, I mean, shout out to you. That's a really good, like, idea and sort of, it's innovative thinking as well and taking from that experience and, you know, like that you've had, that you touched on. And so I want to move into this next question. I want to start off with a little bit of a congratulations.
Shout out to you. I see it as a recent promotion, right? Yeah. To Assistant Director at Gallery Martise. So, you know, let's, let's talk a bit about sort of how, you know, that, you know, you were touching on it earlier, like how sort of that relationship initially with the gallery came about, but talk a bit about how your experience, sort of all of this, you've been forming over these years. See the hand gestures. I'm just stipulating over here. But how all of that comes together in your role and how you approach community engagement from, from this, from this role now. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: Thank you for the congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I look at it from a multitude, just a multitude of viewpoints. I think the first one being, again, being able to work under Dr. Rinty Spidola. It's like a full circle dream moment for me. I'm not going to lie. I studied her and kind of was watching her for four or five years before even starting at the gallery. So being able to learn under her up close has been, you know, I feel like that in and of itself has been another iteration of grad school. It's like a whole other.
But anyway, I think that. Some of the, well, not some, all of the experiences I've had leading up to working at the gallery from working as an art educator to. To being an artist myself to some of the outreach stuff that I had to do, just that I was that I was doing period. It's it has definitely helped me step into this role and feel a lot more confident in the role, especially since there aren't a lot of people that have. Well, actually, I'm going to I'm going to ask strict back because that's not true.
But I'm going to erase that a little bit. But there are some I found that it can be 5050 if people that are in arts admin or at least in my specific role in arts admin, like working at a commercial gallery. It can be 5050 if they're also artists themselves, rather than it can also be 5050 if they're solely just art historians.
A lot of people walk in and I think think that I'm, you know, I have a curatorial practice degree. So it's also really interesting not coming from it from that very traditional lens. But I think it's been really helpful for me, honestly, like the first project I was brought on to at the gallery. Um, Mertis brought me on for that one because because I am into community outreach and because I do so much in terms of education, like the first project she brought me on to was, I think it was, oh, my goodness, is like the radical voice. Of blackness, it was it was a really long title. It was at the Bannaker Douglas Museum. I'm sorry, Mertis, if you ever hear this, I don't think you will.
But I'm sorry. But I just, I just say that to say she brought me on an exhibition at the Bannaker Douglas Tubman Museum. And a part of what she wanted to bring me in to do was to again, think about programming and kind of help build out that as well as introduce her to maybe artists that she wasn't familiar with before that might fit the, you know, might fit the scope of the exhibition. So, again, I think me having to kind of like network with folks and kind of be on the ground at various exhibitions, you know, before I even knew that I was going to step fully into curatorial practice.
I was still doing studio visits, etc. So I think all of that has really paid off to this point now, you know, where I can speak about the construction of a work from somebody that's maybe had to do similar stuff to the artist. In terms of constructing the work, you know, I do a lot of documentation and graphic design stuff, which I wasn't expecting. But I had to do so much of that stuff for myself for so long and even volunteering for other people that, you know, I had to get comfortable with it and things I wasn't comfortable with. I had to learn or to get comfortable with, you know. So I think that that's also kind of been a great aspect of the journey is like being able to use all my skills and also refine them in different ways. That's been really nice.
Rob Lee: And it's the radical voice of blackness speaks of resistance and joy.
Ky Vassor: I wasn't going to get it.
Rob Lee: Listen, that's my job on the side. I'm like, let me let me type that in. No, that's great. And again, it goes back to sort of the, you know, that track record as in that that CV yet again, just being able to do so many things that when an opportunity comes up that you're able to in a sort of Swiss Army knife sort of way as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And having that confidence built up there as well. You know, the sort of same thing. And I'll just just say before moving into the sort of next and last question is that I apply that same sort of timing and being able to do different things in different environments and using different tools to techniques to do interviews. I apply that when I'm teaching my students. It's like, well, what you need here is this.
I turned to ankh, you know, like I'm pulling up with you. You got problems with each alternator. You know, your podcast alternator. I do that.
That's exactly what I do. Actually. So I want to move into this, this next and last question. So sort of, you know, this sums it up.
And I think it kind of really brings everything back together. Finally, giving your unique perspective, art is curator educator arts administrator. And it's other hyphenates that I'm sure I'm forgetting, you know, go, go dancer. I don't know. What are your aspirations in terms of like future projects, how you see your work influencing the direction of sort of the different parts of Baltimore's arts and culture that you touch?
Ky Vassor: I think more than anything, because I've been, you know, even before our conversation or today and just in general, this is something I've been mulling over a lot, you know, even going back to when you reach your goals, because you thought that they were the biggest dreams you could have. Higher. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you had a dream a little bit bigger, huh?
Let's see. I think, um, I think for me, though, the one thing I am sure on, um, and what I want to be, I guess, for the Baltimore art scene is just a pillar of support, to be honest. I, at least for me, that was something that I lacked a lot. Um, kind of coming up in the Baltimore art scene and I, I don't want especially young black folks, especially young black fans. I don't want them to have to go through, like I said earlier, I don't want them to have to go through the same things that I went through at all. And I think that some of that can be mitigated, you know, not all, not all of it, but some of it can be mitigated through simple things like looking out for people, whether, you know, and it's something I try to do even now. And constantly have tried to do as I've been in the art scene, but, you know, whether I'm friends with somebody or not, just being there for somebody, if they reach out to me, you know, doesn't always mean I can support, doesn't always mean I can help. But I think that at least for me, that's kind of, if I wanted to be a pillar, that would be my, that would be my pillar. It's support.
Rob Lee: That's great. That's great. I was, I was over here, like typing up for something. I was like, I'm on mute. Let me untie. No, that's, that's good. And I think, you know, I, I share that sort of aspiration. It's like, yeah, if I can pull up, I will, if I can support, I will. And, you know, while I do kind of what interests me, right, but it's still in like what's here and especially like reaching back out, like reaching out to you and you saying, yeah, sure. And because it's like, I got going on.
Yeah, it's literally sort of what the thinking was. So with that, I want to move into sort of the rapid fire questions and the one I was typing up. I think I got the most of it here. I think I got most of it here.
And I think it's good, but I'm going to start with this one. Could you finish this? This sentence here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's simple, simple. Could you finish this sentence here?
Rob Lee: For me, art is I had a word limit on there initially. I took it off.
Ky Vassor: For me, art is surrendering.
Rob Lee: See, look at that. You did it in the amount of words. Shout out to you. So having sort of multiple art lives, right, this nonlinear story, right, that is longer. You know, you were mentioning certain numbers. It's longer than I thought it was. I was like, she's been doing off like three years. And I was like, you interviewed her five years ago or something like that.
Ky Vassor: I was like, it has been five years. Five years.
Rob Lee: But in it, I think that there's something when we go to these different places, like I've been a podcast for 16 years, I still have my first piece of podcast equipment.
That's a total. All the places that I've gone, it still works. It has something really inappropriate written on it by a former co-host because he thought it was funny. Do you have, I use that device. It's a mixer. I call it a totem. Do you have a totem that you've taken from different stages in your artistic journey?
Ky Vassor: That's kind of tough. Like a piece that I've created or something I've used to create something.
Rob Lee: Some pieces you've used to create or just something that, you know, like that device, I don't use it regularly. I have like better equipment now, but it is part of the story. What have you like, if my studio is a museum, it's just like, yeah, look at that artifact right there. I don't use it. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: Oh man. That's kind of, I like how you're looking around like, do I have anything in here? No, I'd actually have to think about this. That's actually, that's, that's, um,
Ky Vassor: hmm, I will, I think about, I think about two things. One of them is, is very, one of them is a piece of art that I made and the other one isn't. I don't, so the first thing I'll start with a piece of art is that I made. If I, because I'm looking at this one piece, I used to be really, I used to think that if I, um, I used to think that long-term I was going to make like sci-fi art and kind of that was going to be my sphere. I was really into making like, or thought that I was going to make apocalyptic stuff for a long time and that that was going to be it and kind of drawing comparisons between that and Baltimore. So I have a couple of illustrations from that period that I, I'll probably never let go of and people, I think every time I show people them, they're like, oh, this is cool, but, huh? Stop, stop, stop.
Rob Lee: Now I need the PDC's as well.
Ky Vassor: To me, I can show them to you real quick. I, like, I'm in my studio. I can show you one or two. I'll show you, I'll show you one or two.
I'll show you one or two. The only other thing though, I guess, and it sounds weird. I have like, um, I have these family heirlooms that I always wear. It's like my, I always wear my grandmother's earrings. And that's always been really grounding for me in art. I don't know if that's a weird one, but especially, how many rooms I had to enter when I was younger and felt really uncomfortable and, you know, or even now, you know, there are a lot of rooms I have to enter. I'm like, I don't know.
Ky Vassor: I just don't know. You know, the vibe and some of these art scenes can be really weird. Not everyone has the best intentions, but there's something really nice about having something physical by my ears where it feels, it almost feels like someone's telling me their best intentions for me, you know. And oddly enough, you know, also what shows up in the middle of the, what's there for me in the middle of the night if I'm working too late and always has been that ringing on my ears. So, um, yeah, I don't know. Those are, those are my art things, I guess.
Rob Lee: That, that, that works. That works very well. Like definitely the, the earrings is definitely a totem thing. And I'll share this before I move into the last one. I have a similar grandmother thing, but I don't use it regularly, but it's in the studio. So once upon a time, I wanted to be an illustrator. That was where the journey began. A lot of art books here in the studio. And I thought I was going to do like, I thought I was going to draw the X-Men.
I thought that's what I was going to do. Oh, yeah. We can have a deep nerd conversation if you like, but, um, you know, so for years, it would always be art supplies, things of that nature.
Right. And I remember one year, my grandmother who did seamstress work on the side, she took like my dad's old like it, this like, uh, crossbag and his military bag when he was in Vietnam and just took elements of the two, because the, the crossbag has holes in it. So she took, you know, pieces of that duffel bag when he served and combined it and that became my art bag. So like, I got some old favorite comics in there, some old art books, color pencils, and it's in the studio. And I've taken it from, you know, this is something that I did probably almost 30 years ago. And I still have that there. And that's something that's part of sort of the creative story, but not a field or realm that I'm in right now, but still part of that creative story. Yeah.
Ky Vassor: No, that's, and that's beautiful. I think for, for multiple reasons, but also kind of showing like your grandmother as an artist, I think as well.
Rob Lee: Oh yeah. Um, so yeah, that's the second time I've said that on this podcast. So yeah, you know, 800 plus episodes. I'm really be talking about me. I talk about y'all.
I make a scene like I'm a specter of mystery. Anyway, uh, so here's the last one. Yeah, you, you, you wear many hats. You're not wearing a hat right now, but you wear many hats. So I'm curious, you know, with all of the things you've done as illustrations, curation, education, as muralists, like I said, the list goes on. What is a hidden talent or surprising thing that most people might not know that I do this. I'm into this.
Ky Vassor: Um, I feel like it's always, I don't know why it's, well, I don't know why surprising to people. We just talked about, I don't know why surprising to people when they find out I'm into like nerd culture, like that I've been into anime my entire life. You know, I don't know why that's surprising to people. I think it was more surprising when we did like the pod five years ago. Um, but that's, I think that's always really interesting to me when I, when I'm like, Hey, y'all, I'm actually really into, to comics though. I'm like, wait, I could like I, oh, Lord, like I keep, oh, Lord have mercy. Sorry. I keep the my like watchmen omnibus. Wow.
Ky Vassor: Wow. At almost all times.
Ky Vassor: Um, like most of the tattoos on me are anime are dedicated to different anime scenes, especially like horror, because I really love the horror genre. Um, I guess the only other thing people might be shocked by is that if they didn't know me when I bartended, they might be shocked by my like me being into that also that also also into that realm. Like I used to want to go into distillation if art didn't work out. So. Yeah, both he fast. Both he fast. The Renaissance woman.
Rob Lee: Okay.
Ky Vassor: So, I guess I mean, look, I'll we'll talk. Um, so, so with that, there's two things I want to do as we close out here. One, I just want to thank you for coming on to the podcast and catching up with me. It's always a treat, but this one was definitely a very sweet treat. And two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners. Um, social media website, all that good stuff. Anything that you want to share in these closing moments. The floor is yours.
Ky Vassor: Oh, thank you, Rob. It was great catching up with you also. Um, I guess my Instagram is at KYARTIN. At Kye Arton. Um, my website is also www.kyartin .com. Um, you can follow me when either of those things. Um, again, if you're interested in collaborating on something also, you know, feel free to reach out.
Rob Lee: And there you have it folks. I want to again thank Ky Vassar for coming back onto the podcast and and tapping back in with me and catching up. And for Ky, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it. Thank you.
