Laughing Out Loud: Exploring the Art of Humorists with Michael C. Furr

Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth in This Art. Thank you for tuning in to Conversations at the Intersection of Arts, Culture and Community. I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, we have a good one. We're exploring Baltimore's comedy scene with a guest known for production work, his wit, his charm, being a performer, just around the scene, just really, really great stuff. Join us for a dialogue on creativity and connectivity with the great Michael Furr. Welcome to the podcast.
Michael C. Furr: Thank you, Rob. Thanks for having me.

Rob Lee: Thank you for coming on. Like, here's the thing. Here's the thing. For years at this point, you know, from, you know, the Hamden days to, you know, even recently and, you know, ArtScape in the last six months or so, I've followed you, followed you online or what have you. So I'm like, OK, I'm finally doing this. It's the full circle thing right here. So I'm really, really looking forward to this.

Michael C. Furr: Well, luckily, anyone who's ever spoken to me personally knows that every time talking to me is like an interview, because I just don't stop talking about myself.

Rob Lee: Well, I mean, I need to do better. I need to do more of that. I was told it's like, where's the you in the podcast? I was like, I'm interviewing other people. Can I interview myself? That would be weird.

Michael C. Furr: Well, you know, I did a podcast during pandemic lockdown because we were, you know, we had nothing else to do. So we did a podcast about fandoms and it was just bringing all my friends on so that we could do what we usually do at shows, which is sit around and talk about TV and comic books.

Rob Lee: I dig it. So and we will probably talk about that. So to kick things off, give us a snapshot, like sort of the, you know, the journey into comedy, into being in the sort of local scene. Like, was it you were born and then you picked up a microphone and started telling jokes and stories? What was that trajectory for you?

Michael C. Furr: Well, you know, I have a performance background and a creative background. I was always an actor and I was a creative writing major. And I did a lot of, I used to actually write and draw comic books was like my thing that I thought I was going to do. But I did always want to get back on stage. I think like a lot of queer people, I loved being on stage until the sort of social dynamics changed as I got older. And it was like, oh, yeah, people are going to make fun of my voice. And there's not always they would say, like, we don't have a role for you. And I think, you know, a little coded language like that, like you're too sissy to play this role. So I, you know, ended up backstage. I ended up a stage lighter and a writer and a director. And then I really always in the back of my head wanted to try stand up. I had done improv a lot in college. And then I fell off of it. And then when I was 32, my dad died very suddenly. And when he died, I was like, very aware of the fact that he had put off a lot of the things he wanted to do in his life for sake of taking care of his family and working because he was like the guy who always worked like two jobs 80 hours a week. And, you know, he died and everybody was so sweet and everybody had such a positive things to say about him and, you know, they had such a good feeling about him and he was such a great guy and everybody loved my dad. But I felt really he left, he led kind of an unfulfilled life in a lot of ways. And I knew that there was a lot of things in my life that I had been putting off because I was either afraid or I was unsure or I was waiting for like the, mythical right time to do things. And I knew doing stand up was one of those things that I was just kind of making excuses because I was scared to do it. And then a friend of mine was doing an open mic at a local bar in Mount Vernon. And I was like, well, I already felt comfortable with the venue. So that sort of like negated that scary part of it. So I just went to watch and I was like, oh, this is just everybody practicing. This is just working it out. I can do this. And I got up and, you know, I actually I got booked off of my first open mic. I got booked by someone on that first open mic. And I like never stopped. I just really hit the ground running. And I. I hit every aspect of comedy as quickly as I could. I got back into improv. I started writing sketch. I started producing pretty quickly. And I just realized, like, I want to do this. And if I want to have the right amount of time to do this, I have to make this an important and big part of my life. Because I don't have a lot of, I didn't have a lot of free time, you know, so I was like, I need to make this worth my time. And also, I need to make money doing it so I can give it more time.

Rob Lee: That's thank you. That's that's a real point. You know, having sort of the time, making it make sense, essentially, because there's a lot of things that it's like, oh, we enjoy that you're doing it. It's fun and you're getting enriched from it. But, you know, it's like I can't do both. I can't live in this. You may like this as a comic, dude. You know, the sort of like this blade of lifestyle. I can't be the day walker and just like. Can't do both. And, you know, it gets to a point where you start looking at the number of reps. And I definitely want to get that sense from you. in doing this, you know, 15 years at this point, you know, how long I've been a podcaster and people like, oh, you're so naturally you've done this and so on. I was like, you don't want to hear any of the older stuff. They super like the late 2009, 2010. It's like, no, this is bad. Yeah, it's bad. And the the podcast that I did, you know, prior to doing this definitely was me and one of my buddies. We were referring all current events. And I ended up going to big and doing my 10th anniversary podcast there as a show. And this podcast was born at big. So I've always been around sort of that scene. And, you know. You mentioned sort of the performance background, like and even comics. I thought at one point I was going to be a comic writer and an artist, and it just didn't work out. I wanted to, you know, writing rap and writing rhymes and short stories and things like that. And, you know, I've mentioned this in this podcast and numerous times, you know, it terrifies me now. So I relate, you know, terrifies me now. But when I was like five, I was an emcee for like, you know, elementary school graduation. I was like, how did they get me on stage? I looked super cute, had huge glasses and everything. And now I'm like, I don't know where that Rob is at. I don't think that Rob exists anymore. Get on stage. I was dumb. Here's nothing else. Just be afraid. Yeah.

Michael C. Furr: I definitely, when I was a kid, I was always the kid who like wanted to read out loud and I wanted to go on the board and write it out. I like, you know, I very much wanted to be the center of attention. And my parents had me in this after school acting program. So I was doing little local kind of silly plays and stuff. And, you know, and I was so determined. And people would always ask, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I would just say, I want to be famous. And I didn't even have any context for how or anything, but I just knew I was going to be famous. And that's all I really wanted. I just wanted something where I felt like I was getting the attention of other people, and I didn't really know what that was. And I really did all the stuff at school. I did the announcements at school, and I did all the things where I could perform. And then it really was middle school where people started to really get on me because I have a sissy voice and I was very clearly a gay kid. And it just, I went into full retreat. I did a full 180, and I was like, oh, you couldn't get me to raise my hand in class, because as soon as I did, it was going to be someone saying something or making fun of me. So, you know, it was like I still had the desire to do it, but I started doing it in a different way. And I realized that comic books were such a great way to like do all the things you want to do as a performer. You really are creating every aspect of a thing. And I did like serious gritty comics and I did silly kind of funny parody comics and things. And it was a really good outlet for me. But still, I always had the desire to be the one someone, you know, that people were looking at while it was happening. Just took me a couple years to figure out how to do that.

Rob Lee: Yeah, again, you know, like I said, I relate. And when I learned the whole Robert or Rob is means bright and famous, I was like, oh, really? Oh, OK. That explains these early on stage things. And, you know, I gravitate towards it, but it doesn't come natural for me. And, you know, I think that that's a piece of it. And, you know, so I'm probably I'm probably going to ask this a little early, but I think it's important to ask it now. So in, you know, having sort of that that shift from having that that performance and then like, hey, I want to be out here, but then sort of can't suck, you know, that whole vibe. What is it like? You know, describe that feeling of being on stage before performing, like you've gone through, you've, you know, perhaps you've done your mature, you've done all of this different stuff before going on stage. Me, my stomach is in knots. It's like the Shabari stuff. It's like, oh, that's a sex club in my stomach suddenly.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, I mean, my stomach is usually also in knots. You know, I worry less about the material, you know, because I usually feel like I have a pretty good sense of what I'm going to do, even if I'm doing like an hour or something. I really usually feel pretty confident in the material. But I get really anxious. I mean, I have really bad anxiety in general, but I get really anxious about the others, all the unforeseeable little logistic things. Am I going to trip? Is the lighting bad? Is someone in the audience going to say something? Are they going to, you know, is someone going to, someone's going to boo me? You know, like all these little things that you can't control. Like I know, I have confidence in my jokes. I have confidence in my material. I know I can do a good performance, but I'm always scared about, Like before a show, I'm always scared about the traveling to the show. I'm always scared about if it's a venue I've never been to before. You know, like all those little things. But, you know, I get really psyched up. I love to just before a show get in my own head and get really amped up and excited. And, you know, I, you know, you wouldn't know if I was getting ready to run a mile or what if you saw me backstage. Because, you know, I'm, you know, I get really like physically amped up and everything. You know, a big part of my comedy is energy. I give a lot of energy on stage and I have a big personality on stage. So I make sure that when I go out there, I'm ready to just hit them hard and bright. And, you know, because I don't think my material works as well if I have a low energy offer. I have to get myself really riled up to do that for however long I'm supposed to be on stage. And, you know, and luckily I've been doing it long enough that a lot of it's muscle memory. So when I'm out there, I'm not so worried about the, the performance aspect of it. You know, once I feel comfortable, like, okay, this, this is, it's all happening now. I can just kind of sink into it and let it happen.

Rob Lee: Thank you. It's again, it's the reps, you know, you say muscle memory, it's definitely the reps and You know, again, it's that thing where I get the same nerves that you were describing of like, man, I'm going to explode on stage. That's exactly what's going to happen. That makes sense. Right. And yeah, no. Then it has the somatic things like I'll have like a splitting headache. And I would know I do more moderating stuff like doing panels or hosting movie nights and things of that nature. And. I always get told, like, you did really well. Couldn't tell that you were over there. I was like, I was dying inside slowly. You know, I was being tortured like William Wallace style. It was terrible. And, you know, but then ultimately the perseverance is there because it's like it's almost this thing of what do I know to be true? It's like, I know this movie. I've prepared. I was like, all the other things I can't really control. And I'm going to tease that a little bit because I got another question related to it. But I want to say that for a little later for folks listening. So stepping back a touch, comedy can be. is comedy and storytelling performance. It can be as, you know, revealing as it is entertaining. So, you know, you're a lot of your material is coming from like personal experiences. And a lot of I think great comedy comes from personal experiences. We've heard people who have kind of made up things that didn't really happen. And then they get out it later and it's like, you should have just went with the real story. What really happened? How do you find balance between sort of that universal, like, I think people can relate to this and how much of you do you put in it? How much do you amplify? Talk about sort of that process in developing your material.

Michael C. Furr: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I really go back and forth between even just within a set or within even just one joke. very honest and completely fabricated. You know, I, a lot of my material is my idea of a worst case scenario or my idea of a, oh my God, wouldn't it be crazy if kind of thing. So a lot of times the story I'm telling is a situation I'm in or a situation I'm familiar with, but like, but then what if this happened or what, what if it went this way? And it usually just comes from doing this thing and being in the situation. And then I think like, oh, I'm so lucky that he didn't say this, you know. But the stuff I'm brutally honest about is probably the most sensitive stuff. You know, I speak very openly about drug addiction and my health. I have lived with an autoimmune disease and growing up gay in a conservative town. And all of these sort of more painful, You know, all the social kind of little things where, oh, and then I said this, and he said that, and this is what happened. You know, that's usually a 45-degree angle away from what actually happened. You know, I always tell people, I think people get upset sometimes that, you know, comedy isn't 100% true, but I also say, like, well, it is performance art. Like, you don't go and see the play Cats and then get home and, like, you would never believe what just happened. These cats, first of all, they can sing. Second of all, they did, I think, kill one of the cats. They decided, we don't like her, and I think they killed her. I think that's what that play's about. In the movie, they put her in a hot air balloon and they just sent her off over the River Thames. And I'm like, okay, that's, That's not, it's a cat. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think the hardest thing is if you're going to be saying that this is my story and this is an important part of my story, this is my personal journey. Those are the things where you can't really veer too far from the truth. You can't speak earnestly about things. You can't say that something is a part of your journey if you have not actually earned the, you know, the ramifications of that journey, you know, good and bad. So, you know, I would never pretend to, you know, say like, you know, do jokes about being an addict if that was not the truth. I would never talk about being a, sexual assault victim or growing up in a home with abuse or any of the things that I talk about that are real or cringy or upsetting. I teach this in my stand-up class is you are free to tell your story and people might not like it and people might feel uncomfortable because people want to talk about having cancer, they want to talk about divorce. They say, well, what if it upsets people? Well, that's their right to feel that way, but it's your story to tell. All the little details, the little I was with a hookup and he said this and it was a bad hookup, like, you know, that's what am I getting policed on how embarrassed I was after hooking up with a 22 year old guy? You know, come on. But so, yeah, I mean, I think it's I think you always have to be honest. I think you always have to speak from a place of honesty. But at the same time, we are writing our material. So you're free to write whatever you want. You know, and I think I definitely have some sets where it's 90% fake to real and some the opposite proportion. I always tell people if it's a horrible story about me almost dying or being addicted to something or having something terrible happen, it's probably real. If it's a story about me getting laid, I probably made it up. My character on stage is much sassier, sluttier, kind of sillier than me. He's about 25% gayer than I am in regular life. You know, he's a little bit more of a sassy kind of, you know, kooky character than I am in real life where I'm probably just playing RPG maker and like listening to Sigur Rós or something. You know, like I'm not quite as interesting as my stage persona, but we've been through the same things. We definitely have the same life experiences. That's great.

Rob Lee: And there is a delineation. Thank you for sharing. It is a delineation between who the person is and who the person isn't. Like you, you've seen me in real life. Like I'm gangly. I'm quiet. I try to avoid people. It's like, I don't want to take up space, man. Just over here, man. I'm just doing my thing. And people like, hey, man, how's it going, man? Treating this art, man. It's art in and around your community. It's like, oh, leave me be. And but it's always it's always cool to see people, but sort of the you know, like I'm in, I'm sort of in my, um, in my safe space, if you will. Like, you know, I'm talking to someone who's talking to you and this, this instance, um, that's super interesting that that has a story and doing my best to facilitate said story being told. But if I'm just out like getting a coffee from like sophomore or enjoying a Rob Lee from forged, you know, If I'm doing that, it's just me being like Robert, whereas if I'm on here, it's just like Rob Lee, you know, podcast extraordinaire. And that's the thing. That's the thing that's that's sitting there. And, you know, same people, same person, but and sort of same interest level, same experiences and all of that. And yeah, you know, and sort of being a And maybe I'll get your take on this. Actually, I think I do want your take on this. What is it like being sort of a well, being a public persona in Smalltomore? That's that's the thing. You know, it's like you're on stage in this city.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lot. You know, I you know, I. I don't think I'd ever call myself famous, but I get recognized a lot. And I think it's because I've been producing and hosting about 150 shows a year for the past few years. And I was at one venue for many years where I hosted multiple shows a week, sometimes two or three at night. So, you know, you see a lot of the same people and you see a lot and, you know, people know you and, you know, I've got specials and stuff and I do a lot of, you know, promotion of stuff when it happens. So I do get recognized sometimes. And, you know, it's usually just like, oh, hey, you're the guy from the thing. That's cool. Oh, we went we had a good time. You're funny or whatever. But, you know, sometimes it's more than that. You know, I've had people very earnestly tell me about, you know, how they sat down, you know, same sex couple sat down with their kid and, you know, they showed them my special and they wanted to talk about their gay experience. And, you know, and I met a woman at a comedy show and she had a queer child who was 15 and in high school in the same community that I went to high school in. And he was having a really hard time and they sat down and watched my first special together and talked about it because that's a theme of the first special was, you know, growing up as a gay kid in the in the dumb ages. And, you know, pre-internet era where no one was culpable for anything. And, yeah, so it's an interesting thing. You know, it's, I very much treat comedy like it's my job. You know, it's very much the thing I do. I host, I produce, I run shows, and I perform. And those are all just different facets of the job that I do every, hopefully every week. And, you know, that's a weird thing to get recognized for because it's a job you do on stage. And I'm sometimes in so much tunnel vision. I don't even think about how it's going or if people are watching. People say, oh, I follow you on social media. And I'm like, I don't, what? I don't understand. You're one of my favorite TikTok creators. And I'm like, I'm a what now? I don't think about it as like, oh, everybody's going to see this and they're going to like it. put it out there and that's just a part of what I do. So it is cool to be recognized and it's fun, but I feel that it's my responsibility as a producer and a host and as a showrunner and just a booker and everything is about making a space for other performers. And that's the whole reason I started doing it was to get as many people who want to be on stage on stage to do the thing they want to do and hopefully get paid to do it. And so that's a great thing to get recognized for. People say, oh, you run the, you produce the all women's night and non-binary night and you host the queer comedy show and you run the place where they do this. And so that's a great thing to be known for because part of the reason I started producing shows is because there was nobody producing queer comedy in this city. You know, I was like, well, someone should do that. And I'm like, well, I guess it's gonna have to be me. And, you know, and it has been me the whole time. So, you know, since then, so I, I'm very happy when that's the thing I get recognized for. But, you know, it's always nice to I always screenshot anytime anyone recognized me on one of the apps, because that's my favorite thing is someone who wants to see my naked pictures. And then they say, Oh, I think I know you. And I'm like, Okay, well, you should have told me that before.

Rob Lee: I was waiting for that.

Michael C. Furr: It took it took it took this for you to know. Remember that you saw me do comedy at a brewery in Howard County. That's this is the part you remember. OK, thanks.

Rob Lee: Oh, that's the face you reckon. Oh, got it. Got it.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, exactly.

Rob Lee: Yeah. You know, thank you. It's I get I don't get recognized visually. I get recognized audibly. And it's like and it's weird because, you know, certain folks who might not look like me might not be the kindest people initially because I'm a big black guy. And then when you hear me talk, they're like, oh, oh, you're Rob. Oh, sorry that I was weird to you a second ago based on what you look like. And I had I just play it real show passively a dick about it, but I play it real chill. It's cool getting recognized in that way because it's kind of funny. I get to be a troll a little bit.

Michael C. Furr: Well, I was going to say, you know, it's always interesting to be recognized for the thing where I'm not even on stage that much. You know, like I do these plays at the Fells Point Corner Theater that are like an improvised play that we run, and we do like a full run of it, like it's a regular play, but it's, you know, all the dialogues improvised every night. And, you know, I am not in the place that I direct. I'm basically in the sound booth with a God mic, kind of directing the show. And I come out just in the beginning of the show and get the input. Say like, okay, where does this take place? And what, you know, da, da, da, da, and the stuff that will inform the each, that make it different each night. And that's it. And then they don't see me again. Then they'll kind of maybe hear me pretending to be a radio announcer or whatever it is for that play, just kind of directing from a booth. And I get recognized for that all the time, which is so weird because I'm out on the stage for five minutes in the beginning and then they never see me again. You know, I'm out there in like sweatpants, you know, like writing down a list and then disappearing. And then, you know, people like, oh, you do. You did the brain sucking aliens and you did the killing. You killed Santa. You were the let's kill Santa Claus play. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know why you remember. I wasn't in it. I was I was just in the booth doing the lights, you know. But so I always think that's cool, too. Or when people recognize me like, oh, you do. You did the door at the show, which is a great feeling. So I'm like, good. Thank you for coming to these other Great, that's great.

Rob Lee: So for you, what is like, so when I guess when we get to a point, right, when I'm sort of like wrapped with doing this podcast, whether I move on to something else or whether, you know, the the thing that I want to be like kind of recognized for, I would imagine is, you know, trying to help amplify folks. And that's literally what you were touching on as far as the scene that you're in and and performance is more macro. You have tentacles everywhere. What is that? What is the thing for you like? You know, is it you want to have the sort of helping amplify folks, the production, the sort of connecting the performance, the theater, the comedy, all of those things together? What is the thing that you want? Like, that's that's your reel. That is the main thing for you when someone describes Michael Furr.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, I mean, you know, I always feel like I'm a performer first, because I think the core of everything I do is about performance, whether it's me who's going to be on stage for some portion of it or none of it or whatever. I think performance art is always what it's about. But, you know, you know, it's hard to say one thing, but I my hope is, is that everything I do can help to raise the bar a little bit every time. because, you know, the venue where I was a booking manager for six or seven years, you know, it's still to this day, as far as I know, the only venue where I, where there was a moratorium on slur language, you know, and like, it's still a very acceptable thing in stand-up comedy specifically to punch down, but say, well, I'm just making a joke or to, you know everybody wants to be edgelord right now where they're like oh yeah I can say these offensive jokes because that's that's just how I feel but I'm just joking so calm down you know so I hope that I can help create a better sense of empowerment and acceptance within the comedy and performance community so that other queer people and people in different minority groups are able to perform without the sort of underlying fear of like, yeah, but I don't want to go here and wait all night to do an open mic if there's going to be nine people making anti-trans jokes before I get up there. And then I'm going to get up there and then I obviously know how this room feels about someone who's trans, you know, and how does that feel to a trans person who wants to try stand up or perform? So that's a, so, you know, I hope that I'm known as a comedian and a performer. I hope I'm known as a producer and a director and a booker, but I hope more than anything, I'm known as someone who has shown people that it is okay to be in secular spaces and it's okay to be in, you know, civilian spaces and spaces where it's not all family, you know. and to not be afraid of that, because I very early on knew, like, oh, I'm the gay comedian. And when I started doing stand-up, there was maybe one other gay man doing comedy in Baltimore. And, you know, I think since then, I hope that the space that I ran and the types of shows that I've done have shown people that it is okay to be unapologetically who and whatever you are on stage. And some people might not like that, but you certainly can't not do it for fear of how people are going to react within the community. Because I think I've shown them the audiences will be fine. It's the dipshits who might be on the show with you who are going to make some awful joke at your expense. So yeah, I mean, I hope that people know that Know that everything I've done has been for the sake of just giving people an opportunity to do what they think is important. And what they want to do on stage rather than trying to do something that they think people will accept and tolerate without them. putting themselves out there, sticking their neck out too far. Because, you know, I don't want people to have to only do queer shows, you know. And I even feel bad because people say, like, oh, you do gay comedy or you do queer comedy. Or people say, oh, you run a queer comedy space. I'm like, I do not. I literally perform, I run a space where I don't want people to call me the F slur at my own job like why is that now I run a queer space, I run a space for everybody, unless you want to use slur language that is not apart from the group that you're a part of. And, you know, that's been a very difficult journey because telling people they can't use anti-trans and anti-gay language on stage has, you know, kind of ruined my reputation in certain circles. But at the same time, I do think that that has hopefully changed the conversation, at least locally, that, no, you can do the show you want to do and you can say, hey, you can be a part of this too, but I'm not going to tolerate you going on stage and saying slurs that are not your own slur, basically.

Rob Lee: Own your slurs. That's your thing.

Michael C. Furr: I mean, if it's your slur, say it. You know, that's if that's part of your journey, then tell it. But at the same time, you're not going to go up there and you decide that it's OK for you to call other people slurs like that's not this is actually not eighth grade. And we actually do know that that's not acceptable. So having a mic in your hand does not negate the the sort of wrongness of that.

Rob Lee: One hundred percent. And thank you for that. I think that that shift has to happen macroly, but definitely locally. But macroly, you know, when, you know, folks who you can't even write a joke these days is like, uh-huh. Sure. Sure. Yeah. You can if you were good at it.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah. And also, why does it have to be that joke? Why? Why does it have to be a joke at someone else's expense? I don't understand.

Rob Lee: And, you know, it's sort of the thing where, you know, I did a podcast for a very long time and my co-host was a white dude. And, you know, I would, you know, kind of share. We had these post-show meetings and things like that. And I'm like, I get your take. I think it's funny. I think it's good. I think it works in the context of what we're doing. But I was like, I don't want the mags, I want the magas after us, you know, saying that, hey, oh, yeah, you know, it's like, wow, my podcast became a clan meeting. This is wild. And, you know, I would say things and I was like, I would tell him, I was like, dude, we're getting invited to things that are super conservative. And it's like, I am not that. So when I show up as large, quasi militant Rob Lee, because seriously, in the DMs, when 2020, when everyone's available, right? You know, we have we have people taking taking bits and kind of going through like comedy and being more, I guess, aware that things that have been said over the years have hurt folks, you know, with George Floyd and and everything with that summer. Right. And I remember, you know, I hadn't been doing this podcast very long. And I'd mentioned like my experience being what I am. I had people deeming me that didn't experience that happen. And I'm like, I'm telling you it did. This is exactly what happened, just being black in America or being black in the city. And and I would imagine I wouldn't take that away from anyone in their sort of what their journey has been and what they've experienced. So, you know, doing this sort of shift with it where I think, again, going to I think comedy, I think storytelling being very personal. You know, I find ways to, you know, when I go to a doctor's appointment and I get fat shame to turn it into a bit because it hurts me. But also, I think there's some I think there's some comedy in that. And I would imagine someone who's part of another group who has their own thing that kind of sucks. It's energy. You could turn it. You want to change it. You want to have people aware of it. And Maybe if they laugh at it, or maybe if they see it in sort of a different way, coming from someone from that community and someone's experience, they'll see it and see sort of the ridiculous nature of it, but also sort of the satire, the awkwardness, all of the things that are baked into, I think, a good joke or a good premise.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I just recently did my last of one of my recurring shows that I had for several years. And we just did the last one of them at the end of the end of December. And, you know, still even then, that last week of shows, I was still having people come in, queer people who were saying like, Oh, well, you know, I thank you because I finally found a place where I felt comfortable trying stand up and coming and trying to do open mic, you know, and it's nice to know that like. you know, regardless of who the person is, you know, that still the message is out there that like, yeah, there are people who run shows and spaces where you can go and you can tell your own story without, you know, fear of someone's story being like, my story is is the punchline is isn't being gay stupid, you know, you're like, it's not great joke writing. Yeah, it's hard too because we are currently in an era of comedy that is very edgelord. Everybody sees the people who have gotten successful, who do those sorts of things and parrot those types of opinions, whether or not they truly hold them or not, they do speak speak those words, you know, out of their mouths on their podcast and on stage. And I think people see that and say, well, I'll do that. And then I'll get successful too, when that's not really a part of their journey. It's more what, you know, what they do now that they are at this place in their journey. So that's very difficult because we have a lot of people who are doing this anti-trans, anti-gay kind of, you know, I want to go right up into saying a slur, but like not say it kind of stuff, because they think like, oh, isn't that provocative? Isn't that funny? It's just like whoever else who does that. And I and I think it's very difficult right now because you can create as many safe spaces as you want, and it's still not going to change what people think is the waiting. to get into this community. And also, too, there are pockets within the community where people, you know, there's a lot of nepotism and comedy and, you know, there's a lot of people and they book each other and they book them and they book them. And so you see them and you're like, oh, look how well they're doing. But at the same time, it's not because of their opinions and thoughts and feelings and the language they try to use. It's more about their hustle, their drive, who they know and what they're doing for each other. So it's really difficult, but I do see that pendulum swinging back the other way. So I think we'll be getting back to a place where audiences are no longer accepting of this idea of like, oh, wow, he really said something so offensive. Isn't that funny? I think people are now realizing, actually, maybe just be funny. You don't necessarily have to also try to shock everyone with how how brave a 24-year-old white dude you are. It's like, calm down, Caleb. It's fine. You don't have to tell everyone the most off-color thought you've ever had. We don't need to hear it. You can just write a funny joke.

Rob Lee: Maybe there's an opportunity, right, to be at that door as folks are coming in and it's like, oh, you came with a rotten tomato. Please. Your tickets are half price.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah.

Rob Lee: And it's like the Danny Devito thing from Batman Returns. Like, why do people bring rotten vegetables to a press conference?

Michael C. Furr: Somebody's always bringing eggs and tomatoes to a speech. Yeah.

Rob Lee: Yeah, off the stage. So I got three more real questions that I want to hit you with before I get those rapid fire ones, because I definitely want to get a take on that. But so, you know, I see Nikki Glaser, I see Jim Norton and a host of other huge names, so I have you that you've you've opened for. So, you know, talk about, you know, an experience that has been really like you know, just like, you know, beneficial for you or taught you about sort of the the art of comedy, the art of stand up, like just being in it. Maybe it's the first one. Maybe it's one of those like, oh, wow, I thought I was going to like piss down my leg. And no, we're here. We're doing it. Tell me about one of those experiences that really stick out for you.

Michael C. Furr: Sure. Well, you know, one thing I've learned from working with headliners who are notable, who have a lot of success, like Jim Norton, he's a really good example of that, is that first of all, if when you become a headliner and you are getting booked and people are coming to see you because of your name, you really have a luxury of you can kind of get away with anything on stage, because when people are there to support you, and they're already committed to you, it doesn't even need to be the best hour of material you've ever written, because they're already ready. And it goes back to one of the first pieces of advice I ever got in comedy, which is you might never make the people who don't like you start liking you, but you can make the people who already like you love you. And I think once you get to that place where you know what your audience wants, you can just kind of keep doing that and then find everything underneath that umbrella and within arm's reach of whatever that lane is. and really get a lot for it. You know, I think Jim Norton, like I said, he, you know, he was up there kind of talking just kind of about his day for some of it. But then he also was so on top of his material when he actually did his material. He had the full notebook. He was going line for line. He was making sure the order was exact. And then after the show, he stayed and he met everyone. He had people who were there who see him every time he's in town. There's people who've never seen him. He was really such a kind person and such a good example of what a celebrity or a notable comedian could be. And I've seen bigger names than him and smaller names than him who really do not treat people very kindly, you know, who are not, you know, I've seen people at my level all the way up who act like you know, they don't want to be there or that they don't care what people think of them. And, you know, my opinion of some people after having worked with them is much lower than when I just respected them and liked their material. Because I think a lot of people really don't go, don't think about how it affects people when you are or aren't kind to them, when meeting you is important to them. So I think you just have to lead with kindness. You have to be professional and you have to do the thing you're there to do. He's there to tell jokes. He's there to meet the people, do a good job and leave. And he just really made sure he did everything he was there to do. And he wasn't just rolling his eyes because it was just Baltimore, rolling his eyes because it's just another show or whatever. He really went out of his way to work really hard. Another guy who was like that was Seton Smith. He was so nice. He was so kind. He was so funny. His material was, of course, amazing. Like, he did a great job as a comedian. But then all the other stuff that happens offstage, he was also so good at. He was so kind to the other comedians on the show and to me as the host. And he was really kind to the staff. You know, he was just like a good guy that left everyone with a super high opinion of him. And he got me so high, I missed my Uber. So that was also really nice.

Rob Lee: That's fantastic. I always always have a list. This is what my partner does when she goes through. I'm like the guy you can never find something for. It's either recording equipment or tickets to something live. It's experiential. And it's either some obscure musician or comedy show. So, you know, I have like a list of folks that I and we check off the box. And there's a few that I haven't seen yet. It's like, I got to knock this one out. So. I remember it was a show local. I was at Autobar and it was Matt Bronger. And I was just like, oh, this is going to be great. This is going to be fun. And it was great. And I actually liked the opener, too. And I was like, OK, she's funny. And the shift that happened, she was an asshole after she got off stage. She was sitting right next to us. and trashed him the whole time. We could only hear her trashing the headliner the entire time. And I was just like, what are you doing? So now I only I remember his closing bit. That's the only thing I remember. I don't remember the rest. I remember he was funny, but I remember her being a jerk more than the actual show. And my partner remembers it the same way. It's like, remember that asshole chick was next to us? And it's, it's weird. And it's like, yo, you're, you're a local. I want to root for you. I want to support for you. And now you've turned me off to anything that you do. Yeah.

Michael C. Furr: And it's, it's hard too. Cause I think that that has to start. right at the beginning. I teach a stand-up class, but it's not just like a joke writing class. I call it Welcome to Stand-Up, and it's actually through the Baltimore Improv Group. And it's a seven-week class, and it is joke writing, and it is stagecraft and social media and all those things. But it's also just the stuff no one ever talks about, which is like, Don't run the light. Don't, you know, don't talk through other people's set. Listen to the comedians who are on the show who are working, who get paid, the people who are doing the thing that you want to do. Listen to what they're doing. Take notes from how that goes and see what their experience is. Talk to the other performers. Get to know people. All this kind of stuff. Because I think so many, especially comedians who are, you know, getting out of that open mic place, but they're not quite feature-level comedians yet, you know, they have this latitude of entitlement, and they go to open mics, and they're rude, and they talk over everybody. they don't support the venue. If you're going to an open mic, even if you're not going to drink, if you don't drink or if you don't buy sodas or food, please tip the bar staff. Most of them are waiting there hours while this open mic happens for nothing, you know, so that people can sit there. Your hilarious story is not actually the thing that pays the rent at whatever venue it is. So I always make sure that I tell these like newer people, these newer comedians and open micers, I'm like, you know, you have to start doing this from the very beginning. You need to be respectful. Introduce yourself to the host. Make sure that you get people's social media. Make sure that you are a good audience member as well as a good performer, because that ends up with people who do make it and they do get some sort of success and they don't have a baseline of how you're supposed to treat people or what people should expect from you. Oprah said it. You teach people how to treat you. You teach them. I think Toni Morrison said that, but Oprah said it to me. I saw Oprah say it first. It's true. You teach people how to treat you. A lot of comedy is the hang. I don't want to book people who are some amount of funny, but I don't want to be around them for an entire night. I don't want to hang out all night at my club or my show with someone who's insufferable and rude, you know, you know, that's that's a real thing. So I think it's really important because, you know, one of the biggest names I've ever worked with, you know, as a as a who was a headliner, was so rude to the staff and was backstage talking negatively about everyone on the show and everyone who's ever been at that club. And it was so. You know, it was entertaining, you know, I guess. But at the same time, it was so like, wow, I don't want to work with this person. I know how they're going to talk when I leave the room, you know, because I've heard how they talk about people who are supposedly their friends and peers. And I'm nobody, you know, I'm close to in Baltimore guy with a hat on. So it's it's really. You know, it's like you gotta start when it doesn't matter as much, because when it does start to matter, you won't have time to start getting people skills met. That's not when you're going to start building a character.

Rob Lee: 100 percent. And before I move into this, this last question, I've been able to combine them. I'll say that in sort of this trajectory of, you know, I went through, you know, I was there just kind of hanging out, you know, at the Artscape thing and just kind of observing folks, engaging in conversation. No one knew who the hell I was. And it's just like, oh, that's like maybe one person because I'm on the board there at BIG, right? And it's just like, oh, yeah, that's that's Rob, you know, and I'm just kind of like chiming in. I was like, OK, this person is funny. OK, I think they're really funny. I think, OK, they're like they're like, you know, that little word coming. But it's sort of like, who's the dick? Who can I talk to? Who can I actually have the conversation with? Because my plan, you know, I was doing it then. This is September, you know, of last year where I'm doing, quote unquote, scouting for these interviews that are curated. And I didn't reach out to everyone. You know, I got some contact information, but I didn't reach out to everyone. Maybe it wasn't a fit for this. Maybe it wasn't a fit for this at this time. But, you know, I think the folks that I got was based off of sort of funny as the prereq, you know, sort of, you know, who's the person? Who are they? What are they like? And that's the thing that can we hang? Can we engage in a conversation? And, you know, it's this thing where you should take what you do seriously. And I heard this recently. You should take what you do seriously, but don't take yourself too seriously.

Michael C. Furr: Very. Yeah. Yeah. And whatever it is, you know, whether it's, you know, the level of discourse or kindness or the type of things you talk about on stage, whatever it is, everybody has to realize if you're going to do comedy, like saying like, but it's funny is never an excuse because I'm assuming it's funny. That's why we're here. Everybody is tied for first place for funniest. Trust me. Everybody knows. But then you can't say like, oh, well, it's okay. You know, I can be mean because I'm being funny. No, no, no, it doesn't matter. I can be mean because I'm funny. No, that doesn't matter. We're all funny. You still have to just treat each other how you want to be treated. and be kind and be appropriate and not say things that are offensive or mean or hurtful to other people, like all the stuff we have to do in regular society. You don't get a pass because it's going to make people laugh. Because guess what? I hate to break it to you as someone who's done this way more than you and someone who's been made way more money than you have doing it and someone who will be doing it long after you found a girlfriend and stopped doing it. Trust me, the audience is mostly laughing because they're uncomfortable and the people you hear laughing the most at your terrible ideas and jokes are people who are already there to support you and they're just your friends. So, you know, if you actually want to do a good job and you want to be the comedian that people want to see, then you can't alienate a large portion of the population by being an asshole while you're doing it.

Rob Lee: Well said 100% no notes. So this is this is the last last real question I have. And you touched on your specials earlier. There are there too, right? And, you know, to all of you special. and met with much critical acclaim. I mean, y'all had changing lives, getting people to engage into these conversations. So could you share a bit, one, the names of them, where folks can find them, all of that good stuff, but also sort of the trajectory from Special One, what was that process like, and building that out, writing the jokes and doing that, because it's the first one, to the second one, and when's that third one coming?

Michael C. Furr: So the first one was a little easier to put together, honestly, because it was everything I'd ever thought, you know, I could pick from every joke I'd ever told. and I could really just write whatever I wanted to and just put it all in there. So a really great friend of mine who's an amazing comedian, Archie Jameson is his name. He's in Los Angeles now. He did a great special in Baltimore called By the Dryer about him living in someone's house by their dryer in their washroom. And, you know, I was so blown away with the process of him doing it I tried to like kind of pay attention to every step I'm like well how did you figure this out and what, how did this work and I really kind of just was there trying to like absorb all of it, as I wanted to do and I was about. four years in at that point. And I really wanted to do the same thing. And then I literally, when he was done, I knew that production company, I knew the members of that team, and I talked to them and we worked it out. And I really said, you know, of everything I've been talking about on stage, I think I have a really solid hour that's just about growing up a gay kid into a gay adult becoming a gay comedian and just want to do a special. I was like it's going to be called straight acting and it's going to be a just a full hour about like the gay comedic experience. And then as I was writing it I just you know was lucky I had a pretty good relationship with a lot of other bookers and producers at that time so I was able to run the full hour at different venues. And I basically worked on it for almost a year, where I was just doing material from the special, and everything I did on stage was in service of getting ready for this special. And you know, I just really, you know, I wrote I did write original material that was only for that special. And then I also just worked really hard on the transitions and the narrative through line. And I really wanted to make sure it was not just, hey, I have 30 minutes of material. I guess it's time to write a special. I said, you know, I have an hour that means something in this order altogether where I'm telling a single story. And that's what I did. And as I was working on it, I started writing the second one where I said, you know, I'm going to turn 40 soon. I think I could do another hour just about what it is to get older as a comedian, as a gay man, all these things as well. And before I knew it, before I had even really finished prepping for the first special, before I'd recorded it, I had already written the second hour. Because there was a lot of material I already had. But I was like, yeah, I really do have this other hour that it's all about what it's like to turn 40 in this world. And from my point of view. So I did the first one and I recorded it. We did it at the wind-up space, RIP. And I did it with ATB Productions, Across the Bridge Productions. I had Scott Cease open for me and it's gone on to be quite famous. It was really an amazing experience and it went so well and it was such a positive experience that I right away started working on the second one. And the second was a little harder because I had already retired most of my best material, you know, because I had put it in the first special and you can't repeat jokes in a special. So I had to really write a lot more for the second one than I did for the first one. But I had such a clear vision of what I wanted it to be and of what it had to be about that it was a lot easier to sort of tailor make the material. And then the third one has also already been written. I'll be recording it later this year. It's sort of about being a working comic. It's just sort of through the viewpoint of what it's like to be a comedian right now as compared to 10 years ago and sort of being, you know, just on the road and out there in the world. So my first special is called Straight Acting. My second one is called I Didn't Die. And you can watch them on Amazon Prime Video. You can listen to them on Spotify, iTunes, Deezer, Tidal, all the apps. And hopefully soon on some other streaming apps where you'll be able to watch them. That's all in the works right now. And then I'll be recording the third one later this year. So that'll be a third hour. You know, I recorded the second one in December of 2019. And it was supposed to come out in spring of 2020. So we were a little busy. I was, I was busy having daily panic attacks in spring of 2020. So I was not able to release and promote a special. So when I did finally release it in 22 is sort of like, Oh, I think I lost some of the momentum. People are wondering why there's no jokes about Zoom in this special. So it's because I didn't know what it was yet. So, you know, that was I lost a little bit of that momentum, but the experience of doing it, I did it at Motorhouse. I filmed it at the big theater in Motorhouse and Spotsy's opened for me again. It was really great. So I'm so excited to do a third one, to do another special and to do another hour of of showing why I do this every day is because, you know, I get to do things like these recordings and these albums, which are, you know, so positive. And it's just been, you know, my biggest advice I tell people is you will never make back the money. I just want you to know that. You're not going to put it on TV and then get famous from it. That's not a thing. But at the same time, the experience of it has like well outweighed the cost, the effort, the time you put into it, you know, because it's probably some of the greatest things in my life that I've ever got to do.

Rob Lee: That's wonderful. And I must comment before I move into the rapid fire portion of the podcast. It's almost like a queer Pokemon, gay kid, gay adult, gay comedian. You've evolved.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm digivolving. I don't have Pokemon money. I've got Digimon money.

Rob Lee: It's good. It's good. All right. So I got some rapid fire questions. And as I tell everyone, do not overthink these. It's like I said what I said. This is my answer. In the future interview, when the third special comes out, when we do another one of these interviews, I may ask the same questions. It may be a different answer then. So here's the first one. And this is from a performance standpoint. If you could choose any location in the world to do a standup set, what would it be?

Michael C. Furr: Well, Red Rocks. I think that is like the coolest performance venue ever. And I used to watch Stevie Nicks at Red Rocks live on tape until I wore the thing out. And I literally just like love, absolutely love that. I love that venue.

Rob Lee: Um, this, this next one, um, you, you know, that Jerry Seinfeld has his, you know, comedians and coffee cars, that thing is seasoned there. I don't know. Um, which comedian past present, would you want to get coffee with to pick their brain? Like who, who's the, who's the person you want to grab? Like that, that latte or that tea. Cause some people don't drink coffee. I mean, I drink a lot of coffee, but who do you want to get coffee with? That's a comedian.

Michael C. Furr: Oh, if it's live or dead, it would be Joan Rivers. I think Joan Rivers is the greatest writer and deliverer of all time. I think she is the perfect example of how to be always dirty and dark without ever being at the expense of someone who can't handle it.

Rob Lee: Good. I've been asking this one recently. Some people are like, can we just cut that? But I'm going to ask you, we've all had them. You know, you live long enough. You have a thing and you're like, I don't want to look at that picture. Do you have any fashion faux pas that stick out? Like what is that most regrettable style choice that there's images of you with it? There is a period where I had product in my hair and it was actually it was pandemic. It was, you know, biking every day. and I was letting my hair grow out and it was slick. And my partner, she's like, so this Lester Holt thing, are you going to continue that? Is that the new thing? What are we doing?

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of, it's been a long 44 years. I mean, I was a raver. I tried to make my own clothes. I've been through everything. But I think the biggest faux pas was I spent way too much time trying to do my hair in a way that people could not tell I was losing my hair. And I want to tell every man out there who is becoming an out-and-proud recido American, whether they like it or not, everybody can tell, first of all. There's not enough hairspray in the world to hide it. And also, it does not matter. If you can change your entire career so that you can wear a hat every day, which is the other reason I became a stand-up comedian, fine. If not, just shave your head. It doesn't matter. Your head is not so weird of a shape that the fact that you have long hair, but bald on the top is an acceptable alternative to that. So, yeah, I spent way too much time. Luckily, Death Cab for Cutie was very popular, so I could just do very long swoopy bangs. It was all actually just technically a comb over.

Rob Lee: I've been there as well, brother.

Michael C. Furr: yeah it's just like oh yeah it's just it's it's just like this it's natural it's like it's the light luckily we're tall so we can just stand with our heads in a certain way where people can't see the top of your head yeah

Rob Lee: Yeah, I was I was trolling one day. I have a buddy who he went into work one day and I'm the master of getting like inappropriate pictures of just things that I'm questioning. It's not like I'm making fun of them, but it's like I'm questioning this. And he had like, you know, kind of like, you know, he's going bald and he was like coming, trying to come back. And he had extensions in. as if no one noticed it. And I was like, you don't go from like the two inch joints to like the eight inch joints over a weekend, my guy. So I took a picture of it and I was like, it's like dotted lines. And I'm trying not to be a complete heel about it. And I was just like, all right, I see you, bro. Look, you got the extensions, bro. I love it. But it was literally, what is going on with your head?

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, I mean, it's really hard. You know, I, I certainly, I thought losing my hair was going to be the worst thing that ever happened to me. I really thought like, I didn't know who I was without my hair, because I had long hair, and I was super into it. And you know, then when it once it's gone, you realize like, those are all fallacies. Those are all things we put on ourselves. And I actually am still me without with a hat on shockingly enough.

Rob Lee: Here's the next one. And it's one more after this. So Uh, so we talked a little bit earlier about sort of, you know, the shabari stomach stomach being the nuts and all of that stuff. Do you have any pre show pre performance rituals or routines that kind of like that you must do like to kind of get in that that spot? Some people are like, I'm going to take a shot of whiskey. I've done that. And I forgot my whole introduction. Double shot, actually, at the wind up space for a podcast festival.

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, I don't usually drink alcohol before I go on stage. I don't drink much anyway, but if I do, it's a little one. But yeah, I usually have a caffeinated beverage before I go on stage. I usually have a Coke or a coffee. And then, yeah, I just need a little bit of time alone. I just need to kind of crack my knuckles, look at my list one more time, just go through it all one more time in my head. Then I crack my knuckles and get my body feeling comfortable and loose. I make sure everything's out of my pockets. That's another thing, too. I don't like to go on stage with my wallet or my phone or anything in my pockets. I just want to feel like untethered to the world, unencumbered by anything other than what's happening on stage in the moment. And then, yeah, just make sure that I'm ready to hit the stage with as much energy as I can muster in that moment. I dig it.

Rob Lee: This is the last last question for you as we wrap up here. This is like the last dab, if you will. Can you name a book, TV show, comic, film, anything in that sort of media space that has really influenced your comedic style?

Michael C. Furr: Yeah, my comedic self. Well, I have to say the TV show 30 Rock is super inspirational to me because of the joke density of the writing of that show. And I try to do a lot of conversational sounding, very dense jokes. You know, I always want my jokes to sound like it's the first time I'm having this thought on stage, but I make sure that every little thing, even the little interstitials and the pauses are all in their own way supposed to be funny or in their always serving the funny. So I love that show because you can watch it three or four times and hear different things each time you watch it. And I feel the same way about my material that I'm like, oh, if you listen to the little things between my jokes, those are also sort of little mini jokes, too. They're all little tags or little, you know, additional setup or premise. So that's one of them for sure. And then also the book, that Amy Poehler wrote a couple of years ago, Yes, Thank You, I think it was called, or Thank You, Yes, I forget what it's called. But that book was so interesting about how she got into improv and comedy and how she you know, became a comedian and a performer and how she took her life and put it in there and how she took that and used it in her life, was super inspirational as an improviser and a comedian. And it was really well done and very funny and very cool. And I really loved hearing her journey about starting out and not being certain of her place in the scene. and kind of sort of tailor-making it, you know, as a part of a community but was still trying to set herself apart from everyone, which is difficult, especially in sketch and stand-up and improv where you're a lot of times just a part of the ensemble. So it's really hard to be committed to that and also stand out. And that book was a really interesting view on that. And so that's a really, really, really good read.

Rob Lee: Well, we got it. Thank you so much. And let me let me close out here. So, one again, thank you for coming on. Thank you for making the time and being a part of this podcast. And and two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners. Shameless plug. Shameless plug. But share with the listeners where they can check you out. Social media, website, all of that good stuff. And and tag the specials again. Everything. You know, the floor is yours.

Michael C. Furr: Well, thank you so much, Rob. Yes, Michael Furr with two Rs. And I'm Michael Furr on everything Michael Furr Comedy and also Michael Furr Productions, which is my company where I produce all of my comedy variety improv shows and direct my plays. You can find all of them on Instagram and all social media. I'm also at MichaelFurr.com. And yeah, my specials, like I said, are called Straight Acting and I Didn't Die. And they're available everywhere you can stream hilarious comedy.

Rob Lee: And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank Michael Furr for coming on and spinning the yarn with us. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just got to look for it.