Rob Lee: Welcome to the Truth in Its Art, your source for conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host Rob Lee. Today I'm super excited to be running it back and speaking with my next guest, an artist whose work explores Indigenous spirituality and the migrant experience weaving power dynamics, gender, and cultural heritage into layered paintings that uncover the embodied lives of displaced women. We last spoke back in 2022 and I'm excited to catch up and see the new things happening in her world.
Please welcome back to the program, Lewinale Havette. Spent a little while you were in a different little cow. My hair was different, your hair was different, it was still better than mine. Sponsors.
Lewinale Havette.: What's your hair different? I don't remember, what was it last before?
Rob Lee: I had a little bit of a curl, but it was a lot.
Lewinale Havette.: You hadn't shaved your hair yet? No, I hadn't shaved my hair. Oh, okay. I don't.
Rob Lee: And as my partner reminded me, this was during this period where I wasn't cutting my hair and it would flip back. I was looking like Lester Holt.
Speaker 3: Oh really? Oh, that's hilarious. It was a wild visual. Oh, that's funny.
Rob Lee: How much I kept it. Before we dive in to the main question, could you reintroduce yourself to the folks that may have missed the first interview and where you're at now? I like hearing it in your own words, so if you will, please.
Lewinale Havette.: Of course. So I'm Luenelle Havette. I am an artist now based in New York City, which is such a great thing to say. We are here at this gallery, my gallery, Palo Gallery. I've been working with them for some time and I recently officially signed with them, so I'm very excited about that. I am now shifting into making sculptures, but also painting with oil and ink.
I think ink has kind of been my go-to medium just because of the fluidity and the surprises that it kind of presents on paper, on cannabis, on linen. So this is where we are.
Rob Lee: Thank you. Thank you. It definitely is going to pop back up in one of my questions. My shirt is partially linen, so I was a little like, okay, all right. All right, so you'd like to work on one. So going back a little bit, and I think there's always kind of a benefit to trace sort of like what the history and what are the things that go into a person and who they are now and then kind of getting that sort of narrative. So looking back at it, how is it like you're upbringing and how did that shape the tone and perhaps the themes within your work? Sure.
Lewinale Havette.: You know, I think many artists can say this. You start to be an artist from when you're very young, and I think early life really shapes the work that you make and how you think and what you need to say. At some point in my childhood, I realized that I could fully communicate with paintings and with drawings, things that I always wanted to say with words, but words were not always my strong suit. There was a lot of traveling, there was a lot of changing of language and having to learn new languages, and I've always found that art has been a way for me to fully express the things that I have to say. So, you know, in a way that shapes my work and is still shaping my work.
Rob Lee: So, it's language.
Lewinale Havette.: It is a language, yes.
Rob Lee: I find in doing this, like even when we started talking when we first did the sort of pre-show meeting, all of that, I find that because I do this so long, it changes and shapes how I go about communicating with people. Almost everything feels like it's a story now, and I want to get as many details and they have really rich and flourished, and it's just like, can you just give me information?
Speaker 3: So, I'm curious about this. This is sort of this new question, and I think it's something in there that maybe shows us in your work, maybe shows us how you navigate the world, but how do you see the world and how does your perspective and how you view the world maybe shape or inform your art?
Lewinale Havette.: You know, I see the world in several different ways, in several different layers. I think there is a part that is beautiful, that is spiritual and that is multi-dimensional, but I think a lot of us either don't know how or don't want to kind of go there, or afraid to go there.
That in its own self, I think, is beautiful because it kind of makes you understand that there's so much that's left we discovered underneath a person. But the parts that I kind of find frustrating, and I try to speak on stress in my work and even in my life, it's kind of, I feel like a lot of times people are very performative. There's almost this, it's like a play and people have this kind of way they think they have to be, whether it was something that was kind of talked to them early on, or I guess imposed by society, it's kind of like this, it's not very real, it's very false. And so that part of I think humanity kind of frustrates me, but it also kind of splishes me to make work that makes us want to explore the realities of what we are without the facade. So that's how I see the world. Authenticity, right? Exactly.
Rob Lee: Yeah, the, and it's interesting, I kind of struggle with that. I had these conversations with folks, like, you know, we have like sort of the podcast and there's some formula to it. That this conversation is constructed, we know the time, we know sort of the topics, but at a certain point when people are listening, you can tell when the guest is cooking and when I'm in frosting. But sort of the conversations post and pre the actual interview, I think there is a lot that there you actually are able to get an idea of who the real person is.
And I think I'm pretty good at stuffing that out, especially as a person who really values sort of the authentic thing. Like, if I say, hey, if you're around, let's do this. And it's not a surface level thing. It's like, hey, let's do this. And, or if it's something as simple as we wrap, right?
And I may ask, hey, when I grab a coffee or something, that's an attempt to continue sort of building off of we've done this in this capacity. I find that a lot of times when it comes to the art, the culture, and the sort of people around it, not actually the paintings and the work. A lot of times it is those sort of surface level facade things. And I see it. And when I went back through, reached out to the folks I was curious about interviewing again, that played a role in it. Who felt fake?
Speaker 3: So, it's kind of a follow up to that previous question. It feels a little gauche, but I get it myself. People ask me why podcasting. I'm like, I don't know. The only thing I'm gonna do.
I'm not telling you anything. For you, why art? And I think that a complexity, why shifting into, well, adding to what your disciplines are to the sculpture and to get to explore. Now, why art, Priya? My art, I enjoy it.
Lewinale Havette.: It has been one of the ways that I've discovered so many things about myself and about people and about life. It's just a lot of things for me that I can name and I have yet to discover.
Why am I also going into other media? Just because I think, you know, a painting is a painting. A sculpture is completely different, right? A drawing is a drawing. And I think all of these things kind of communicate the same thing in different ways. And so, you know, I'm just so fascinated by that.
Rob Lee: So, if someone is asking, I think I'm gonna tell them what I suppose, who's your art for? Again, a gauche question.
Lewinale Havette.: Of course, who's my art for? My art for everyone. It's not for one specific person. And it's also for me. Yeah.
Rob Lee: I love that. I think, you know, again, like I was touching on a moment ago, I'll have those questions. I may have asked that question of people maybe in different ways and they have a specific profile.
Lewinale Havette.: Right. Which is fine, you know? I think that, I think some artists, you know, need to have this need to kind of cater to a certain demographic of people, because maybe they just feel like there's something they have to communicate to a certain demographic of people. But I think for me, it's something that I want to, it's humanity as a whole, right? Because my focus is the human condition, you know, above all else, right?
And so, for me, I think it would be selfish, and limiting in different ways to only focus on, you know, one person or one type of person. Like I need it to be felt and understood by as many people as possible, including myself.
Rob Lee: And I love that piece yourself, like doing this, many episodes on that right now and the years that go into it. And in doing some of the research, like for you, it's like she's been at this for a long time. And I think when folks almost forget to include themselves in who they're artists for, that is something that also is limiting. Like, you know, you're doing something, you're spending a lot of time and energy and long hours, long days.
I spy $90 shirt today, and I was like, I can't pull up and put a dirty shirt on for the crazy. And just some of the small things that are there, but it is all towards the goal. Like, I'm really driven for this. And I know that you're driven to do your work. So, including ourselves in who we make whatever we're making for, whether they are, whether we podcast, it has to be for us. And there's a selfishness in it, at least the way that I view it, where I'm curious.
I'm like, what's the event like? Let me make me sound like I'm smarter than I am. I will, I reference artists like Harvard, he's just by the way, you know, I got quotes. Yeah, I read self-investigative is part of the element of your practice. What does that mean for you? And what are, you know, how do you approach well, actually, I'll just ask you the first part and then the second part of it. So what does the self-investigative element of your practice mean to you?
Lewinale Havette.: You know, it's interesting. I think some months back, some years back, I would kind of make the work and just like kind of make it as a questioning. But I think now I kind of just make it and then it comes to like the things that I have to know come to me later.
So I don't know if it's so much as an investigation now, it was for a long time. I think now it's more of kind of like, what are the things I need to know? So it's more of a kind of like, I could die almost in work, which I, you know, it sounds like an investigation, but it's not, it's more of an uncovering, I think it's, it's more of like a, what things need to be revealed to me without me having to probe, right?
So I'm just going to go with feeling, go with gut, go with instinct and whatever I need to know, I will know from what I'm making. Because, you know, before I would like, you know, sketch out the idea and plan the colors and blah, blah, blah, and then, you know, put it on the canvas. But now it's like, you'll see my recent work, I'll close more pictures up as we take photographs. But now it's more of like, this needs to be here, I'm just going to put it here. Like I go into this video without any plan.
I just put on canvas what feels right, right? And that kind of form of art making is more about the art telling you what it has to say and less about you saying, like, I'm going to do this thing because I need to know this.
Rob Lee: No, it does. It does. And what I was hearing there is, you know, I heard you trusting your gut, like having some people say intuition, but I think gut is a bit more like primal and it's just like, I'm going to ask this now. I'm going to do this right now. Not having that sort of like, that plan knowing that I'm going to be here, I'm going to do this during this time, but not so rigid that it just feels like a formula. You're able to operate and flow within it. But you're stable to get some really good stuff done during that time without any sort of set expectations because they themselves can be limited.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Rob Lee: So the other part of this question, which I almost added to it, I had to trust my gut and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, let it breathe for a bit is your work has, you know, this, like, from what I feel, deeply personal at times, it's expressing authentic emotions and as a person who would look, I frown, I shade away from us like, who emotions, who it makes me feel. I like feeling things.
What are your considerations on your approach sort of showing those emotions and showing things that are very personal within your work? I know that some folks will, yeah, here's the personal story, it's a real story, but I gave 85% of it. Some folks are like, I'm giving 200% of it. I'm adding stuff to it. So for you, how do you go about that?
Lewinale Havette.: You know, it's interesting. I think maybe this may be the case for a lot of artists, maybe it's just the case for me. With my earlier work, I think I was more intentional about, I'm going to add this personal thing because I need this message to be kind of, you know, extract from it. But I think now the personal things just add themselves. It's interesting. I just go in and I just do it.
It's not planned at all. And so I just, and then when you do that, what ends up happening is you end up adding more personal things, even things that you didn't realize that you were trying to say. So I just let it happen without trying to, you know, edit it too much or, you know, so that's how I do it. I just go in and I just do it. Like I just, whatever has to say, I just do it without thinking. And then it reveals itself.
Rob Lee: I like that. And I'm glad that you almost wrote my mind there because I was going to say like, so editing, you mean I have the intention, but some folks, they get in it. Like I've had, in the times I've done it, I've had guests come on and they'll share like really deep, dark personal things that have something to do with their work, that have formed their work, or one of their motivations to take a part to men and sort of real things. And I'm like, and sometimes there's tears going upon.
I'm like, I don't know what to do. Can I digitally pass you like a tissue if I'm saying, and I just wanting to keep it in there and really thinking about like, all right, what's the consideration here? Because I'm in that spot where I can edit this to make it feel like, Hey, but is this a real conversation?
And that's sort of the main consideration there. Does it feel real? Is this real in the context? But then also the consideration of I have time to sit with it and really think like, is taking advantage of the thing? And it's like, no, I'm not doing it for clicks. I'm not doing it for this. I'm not doing it for that. I'm doing it to show the story and getting the sign off from the person, especially if there's there's shown something very deep. So yeah, definitely you mentioned the editing part. Have my have my, you know, bulb go off.
Lewinale Havette.: Yeah.
Rob Lee: Some locations, right? When we initially chatted, you were in the ATR, you in Atlanta. I know, you know, people say it really, I make fun Atlanta, I make fun of the city. And that's a city that has like a strong reputation around the arts. I hear a lot about black arts, I've not gone down there, but I have interviewed fair amount of folks from Atlanta.
And we're here in New York as we touch on the onset. And it's been long considered like an art hub is like, you got to go there. So what do you thought so on like physically being in the place and being in two different places that as far as the scope of these interviews, two different places that have reputations with the arts, so there's community, there's a scene and so on. What is how do you feel about like locality as it relates to your work being there in a scene, like especially like here in that hall? There's nothing like New York.
Lewinale Havette.: If you're an artist for inspiration for just getting things done. You know, I was in Atlanta and there are a lot of good things about being in the community. But for me at some point, and this is just my personal story, you know, I'm sure it's probably different for as an artist. But for me at some point, I just needed to grow more. And I felt like New York was the perfect space for that, that growth. But also I felt like, again, this is my personal journey. But I felt like there was more of an understanding and a healthy curiosity about my work here than in Atlanta. And I also felt like, you know, more opportunities and just kind of like being around artists who are at the top of their game pushes you to a level that you just don't understand, just simply being around that. And so for me personally, I think I had to, if I wanted to keep growing, I had to move. And so it's been just for me, no comparison, to be honest. It makes sense. Yeah.
Rob Lee: It's, I read about that in Death of the Artist.
Lewinale Havette.: And they talk about I used to guess that I've been thinking about getting that Death of the Artist. It's very good. Is it? Yeah.
Rob Lee: Maybe we'll have to do a run it back and maybe we'll train.
Lewinale Havette.: Maybe I'll send you the book. I would love to. Yeah, I would love to. Yeah. Okay, cool.
Rob Lee: But it's the hubs and they talk about it. And, you know, the William DeReservoitz, the author, he talks about the importance of being in the hubs. And it's this notion that's presented that we all face of we're on social media so that you can get anywhere at any time. It's different being there.
Even in this short bit, like I was sharing a bit like yesterday, I went to Spring Break, I was even to connect with folks. I'm not a networker. It terrifies me. I'm super tall.
I've got off color jokes. And, you know, but being able to chat it up with a few different people, it loosens up those muscles. It was something so circulated I was talking to yesterday. And I was like, am I here too long? He's like, no, dude, keep going. This is entertaining. And I was like, oh, cool. He's like, what do you do? I'm like, I'm a podcast. I talked to artists poorly. He's like, obviously you don't. And it was kind of informing. And in some of the other places I've been, I always feel like when they have maybe stronger and deeper connections to, it's almost like this vibe of, why are you even here, bro? Whereas here is like, I have no, yeah.
Speaker 4: And it's good. And the sort of the, the follow through is just saying like, I have a bunch of people subscribed from the folks that I reached out to yesterday to your point.
Speaker 3: They get it.
Rob Lee: So I want to talk a bit about specific works now. We're going through like history now because, you know, we got, yeah. So, you know, I was going to some time on your website. I felt like one of those dudes that's investigating like a crime. I'm like, I'm deep in this website right now.
So you're onto your mother. That's 2019 2021. Siri feels vulnerable and mysterious. Remake 2022 to 2023 feels personal and it's stripped. It feels bare in some ways. And goes 2023 present, feels ethereal, mystical.
Those are not need just saying chat, GBT, give me these words that sound like ghosts. But what responses or emotions have these series sparked in, in viewers? And how do you reflect on them personally?
Lewinale Havette.: It's really interesting because people tend to be so incredibly moved by the work. And they have like very strong reactions. And so I think what I can conclude from that is when you are what you put into the work is kind of absorbed by the viewer. Because there is a lot of intensity, they go into the pieces. And so I think when people do see them, they kind of pull that out of it. And it kind of affects them in that way. So I'm happy when I see people react to the work because it's kind of just like this, this awe, but also this kind of a thrill emotion. I have had some people, not their few, but kind of like be frightened of it. This is It's interesting.
Yeah, I think it's entertaining. But yeah, just a lot of very strong emotions. And I like that because what I wouldn't want is, oh, this is so pretty.
Right. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this is so pretty.
Like, this is so good. No. Like, I needed to stir you. I needed to make you feel something that you don't always feel right or you're afraid to feel.
And so, yeah, that has been. And so, whatever piece I do, especially just in your body, you'll see like my goal is to push that as far as I can take it. And so, I am, you know, just trying to push that as far as I can take it. Like, what is, if I put this thing here, like thinking about how people are going to react to it. So, it's really interesting.
Rob Lee: It's one of those terms they use in like, strength training, taking it to failure.
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm going to push my work to failure. It's like, I know I can go further.
Speaker 3: And it's like, yeah, I'm going to go as far as I can.
Lewinale Havette.: As far as I can. Exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah.
Rob Lee: It's important. And, you know, getting that feedback. I love listening to folks in there say, I don't care about, like, we're not saying in that way, but in the context of if you're getting some semblance of feedback. Like, I still am going to do what I do, right? But it sounds just like, ah, that one was a little mid. Like, all right. I'm wondering what was it mid. You know, something that's more informed, I guess, critique versus as you were touching on. And that was pretty. Yeah. Exactly.
Lewinale Havette.: Anything else? Yeah, right. Exactly. Anything I can use? Yeah. I don't want to make pretty art. I want to make art that moves you. And that's always the main goal. It's interesting when I was younger, before I started, like, I was a full time artist when I was like, 12, 13. Oh, overachiever. I was always, like, I was always drawn to shock art. Right? And it's just like, I absolutely love it. So I think some of that plays into a lot of the work that I've been making recently.
Rob Lee: Shock art. I like this. I like the...
Lewinale Havette.: I'm not sure that filled the correct term for it, but back when I was little, it was shock art. No, art that shocks you.
Rob Lee: It gets a response, though. And I think that's one of the things like back in the day, I used to watch like different media to like shock video. And I was like, oh, you're not supposed to watch this. But then it sticks with you like for a long time.
Speaker 4: And I think also it kind of opens up what one is willing to receive in a certain media.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Rob Lee: So looking across the three series, you know, on your mother Remake and Ghost, how do you feel about your growth as an artist, especially as we were shifting to this new body of work that you've touched on? So what are the sort of like maybe key areas perhaps where you've shifted in your practice or even in your thinking? And I say that because again, I'm going back through many instances listening to the first time I've interviewed someone like, whoa, I was not particularly good on this one or I could have went deeper with this question. So my approach has improved, I would hope, over the three to four years between some of these interviews. So that's the thinking that I had in mind in this question.
Lewinale Havette.: What has changed with that question? Sure. I am moving more towards abstraction. Shifting away what's not necessary and just leaving what is. There are some, in some instances, you'll see figures. That's why I'm so excited to kind of show you the new work. But there's one piece I recently posted that is a sample of the new work. And then the photo I used from my gallery signing was also a thing of the new work. But I'm shifting more into the surgery. You can't see that with, you know, that piece and like a lot of a few other recent pieces, but shifting more into the spiritual and just taking away what, you know, what doesn't need to be said. Yeah. And just keeping things kind of, you know, simple in a way, but also like loaded. So I think it's maturity. I think as you mature, your work also matures. It's good. Yeah. It's good. Yeah. Or it should, you know,
Rob Lee: I'm trying to get more simplistic as I go along. Just like, yeah, insights when I've been doing that. I'll say your work is pretty. Tell me why you make that pretty work. There's no depth in it. Yeah. It's no insight.
No one's thinking. Yeah. So if you, a few pieces again, going back and I definitely have I think the piece you're referencing and your image may be on Instagram. But I saw your, I love your pieces Don, Drinking, Soundcard. Obviously it involves, you know, ink and stings and you know, Archival Principal Leonard. What was, could you just give us a peek behind the curtain on what that process is like and what goes into choosing the materials?
Lewinale Havette.: Yeah. So those pieces were a part of my solo show and I had a few months ago and I was heavily focused on specifically the Nami Waza Gadas in West African culture. So a lot of those pieces kind of had to, they were relating to that.
You know, these forgotten kind of female deities that were known and celebrated for a long time before colonial kind of religion or religious ways of seeing things to cover what's happening in culture and asking culture as a whole. So those pieces play into that narrative.
Rob Lee: Yeah. So in so the materials were a part of that as well?
Lewinale Havette.: Yeah. So the ink I used Sepulitidae to symbolize water. Nami Waza is a water deity Leonard because you know, Leonard is durable archival but also ink looks very it feels smoothly on linen. But then you know with I believe there are some acrylic in there as well just to kind of have this solid material work. I'm not 100% solid but more solid than ink to define certain things like this. You know I couldn't define with ink. So yeah.
Rob Lee: Then there's this is the follow-up. I'm still in process land. So I want to hear a bit about the girls will be God?
Lewinale Havette.: Oh that was my installation I believe I did for the solo. So that was my father as a minister that was a photo of him and his sister when they were younger and it was kind of a juxtaposition of male religious dominance and female obedience but just kind of picturing them as children it's kind of like they're starting this path and it's interesting how the paths kind of you know grow and change based on what is supported by society and other thinking right? And then the images were kind of my family's history dealing with migration but also religion, ancients and new struggles with you know what it's like to be an African woman under these ideas so there's a lot in there. Yeah.
Rob Lee: And again going back to sort of the things the language that you've been touching on throughout your work.
Lewinale Havette.: It's like I don't know what you think. Exactly.
Rob Lee: And these sort of questions that you know might be hard or I don't want to touch on that. It's going to be right here. You like this work? Cool. Actually think about this stuff now.
Lewinale Havette.: Exactly. Yeah. That's the goal. Well, it's a challenge.
Rob Lee: You're hitting it. You're hitting it.
Speaker 4: So I got one more question of the real questions. You're not escaping these rapid fire questions. You're going to get these as well. I want to make you make them.
Lewinale Havette.: Good. I like that.
Rob Lee: So I would love to hear about Zonamaco and sort of this was recent. This was earlier this year. So 2025 Zonamaco showing at the SIR section and these were presented pieces shaped by your childhood, right?
So what stood out most about that process, just the overall experience and being involved because it's recent. We're going to see some other word a little later. But it's recent. I'd love to hear about that.
Lewinale Havette.: So the pieces that presented for Zonamaco in Mexico City were kind of a switch from this there were a push into earlier, sorry latest, my latest work which is kind of like to talk about this tripping away of what's not necessary. So with that you saw pieces like these. There are also pieces that are kind of monochromatic or black and white which were kind of, you know, in huge drawings. The first, you know, the second time outside of my studio that I made pieces that were just ink drawings or just ink paintings and just kind of like simple but like extremely loaded. Heavily inspired by West African Liberian craftsmen and the mask and also the attire we used to, you know, to dance or to symbolize certain things spiritually but also inspired by Goya and his case paintings the one he made when he was growing up.
Because I think those were the most honest pieces that he made. And so just kind of playing with that and not being afraid to put on canvas and paper and linen the things that I have been afraid to put on there. I think for a long time I was like, oh, do I do it? I come out the first time I made a piece with a boob in it. My dad called me up and he was like, can you maybe try to come and do the boob?
Rob Lee: It's like, no, this is truth of my art.
Lewinale Havette.: It's like, honestly so just really not, you know, enough of trying to cover and just, and I don't mean like physically, I mean like in every sense, right? It's like enough of, oh, I don't want this to look too scary or I don't want it to, you know, just do it kind of thing. And so Zonamako's room kind of like a moving into that I
Rob Lee: think it's, it's honest and there's message in there. Then it's like the rest kind of takes care of itself. And, you know, I go back to and thank you for that.
Thank you for sharing that by the way. I go back to like yesterday when I was at Spring Break the first like booth I wanted to, it was just like, it was it art is the first thing I thought was just like, oh, there's peanuts right there. I was like, uh-huh.
Speaker 3: And I know certain people that I maybe been friends with in the past, they just like, no, we can't go in there. I was just like, that's insane.
Lewinale Havette.: Like what is this here you know, it's interesting, it points to something. If you have a nose and so it makes the sculpture of a nose and you're afraid to go into the booth with a nose it says a lot about how you see your own body. Right? This is not a foreign object. This is not a monster from out of space that we've never seen before. It's just a body part. And so it's just so interesting the strong reactions that some people have to things that you see every day anyway it's really interesting to me, you know.
Rob Lee: Yeah. And I almost doubled down and I'm a big pop culture guy so I watch a fair amount of movies and you know this person is canceled, redacted, whatever, it kind of sucks. But it was a thing that James Franco said years ago about this movie called Interior Leather Bar. And it was a movie that was censored because it was showing like, so that the leather community and the LGBTQ community in the early 80s. And it's big chunks of the movie that are removed. So he's like, I'm going to make what I think happen in this. And it is some unsimulated stuff.
It's really came forward and all of this. And his reasoning was I can see the most violent thing possible in the theaters and it might get a PG-13 rating. Sometimes kids can see it, anyone can see it. But this, which in some, it's expressions of love, normal stuff we can't see. It's censored. It's really weird.
Lewinale Havette.: And so what that does to a lot of people in the culture is this is the norm, right? Because every country is in the same way when it comes to approaching things like this. But what that does is it makes things that should be foreign and familiar and unnatural and it makes them familiar. And the things that should be natural and familiar. And it makes us afraid of and also it makes us lack the knowledge of how to go about these things.
Right? With relationships, with sex, with all these things. Like a lot of people just don't know. And that isn't even a question of age. It's just because it's been made to fear things that are just normal and natural and should be embraced. You have a penis but you can't go look at a penis culture like come on.
Rob Lee: I thought it was in the first 20 minutes. I was like, so the shading right there, how did you get that color?
Lewinale Havette.: So it's really interesting how we place importance on things that should not be important. Or we're kind of desensitized to things that we should be. Like extreme violence for example. But a kiss from two people of the same sex is like or a penis culture. You know, things like that.
Rob Lee: I think it's here, so it's where we're at to make it very specific. It feels regressive. It is prudish. It is not with all of the sort of conversations on freedom and all that it's just, it's not a free way of going about things. And it leads to all these other things. It's a back door to these other things that are raised in and all of the stuff.
Lewinale Havette.: A lot of things. Yeah, absolutely right.
Rob Lee: So yeah, we actually have some depth there. See, I'm not a talk.
Lewinale Havette.: You only could just between my friends. Only. So no surface level? No. I can't do, I literally cannot do surface. It's so weird. Like I can't. And that's why even going through like, I'm not a networker either. But even doing that, it's so difficult for me because I just can't do surface level.
Rob Lee: Last year I was up here for one of the fairs and it was funny. I hung up with my one friend who lives up in New York and the other was visiting and he was showing work in a bunch of different shows and he was coming from Amsterdam. And we shared the same birthday and we did the interview and asked this like we should meet.
And it's like, yes, we should. So literally the last thing I did before my train, I ran over there to meet up with her and yeah, coffee and our partner. We were just like chopping it up and like the networking thing. She's like I don't really like this networking thing. She's like I haven't in my contract with the Gallup read that I don't have the network. Oh wow. And I was like you get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Lewinale Havette.: No, I see that. That's a smart move actually.
Rob Lee: So whenever that deal comes for me in the media space, it's like look, I just want to be a ghost.
Lewinale Havette.: Yeah. I just, you know, and it's interesting, it's not good or bad, you know, but I think that other times the work kind of speaks for you if the work is strong. And don't get me wrong, I think that looking to some extent is great, right? Like kind of necessary, but just extreme like all the time. Like it's just too much for me.
Rob Lee: Yeah, I'm not a work the wrong guy. Yeah. And again I take sort of these periods where it might be six to eight months where people won't see me. Like you look different like I know.
Yeah. But when I'm on and it's like sort of the right thing as I was sharing earlier, it's like to get it, then it's easy as natural. It's like, you know, you don't have to think about it. Like you do when you're approaching your work.
I want to think about whatever I'm doing. Yeah, exactly. Alright, so the main questions we've completed. Now I've got four rapid fire questions. Okay. So you don't want to overthink these. You know you've been on this podcast before.
Lewinale Havette.: I remember those rapid fire questions.
Rob Lee: Alright, here's the first one. Okay. So memory and imagery are present in your work, obviously. Can you share a fond memory that's been embedded in one of your recent pieces?
Lewinale Havette.: I don't actually answer right away, but
Rob Lee: The fact that there's a few chuckles there.
Lewinale Havette.: Because you have to think. You know, I think in the past I was dealing with memory, but now I think I'm dealing with something completely different and I think it's beyond time.
So I don't know if there's memory, any memory in it. Now I may look at it, you know, in a few years and say, oh, this was what it was, but at this point it feels like it's on a different plane. It's like, it's time. There's no future or past.
Rob Lee: So you're bending time now is what you're saying? I'm not bending you. That's what I heard. You say you were time better.
Speaker 3: It's fine. Listen, you said it. I didn't.
Rob Lee: If you had just made it like you said it. Listen, I should not say it, but that's interesting if you say that. Yeah, it's not. You're not going to look at this work in a hundred years and say this was this in this time period. That's where it is. Right? Yeah, you'll have to see it.
Again, I'll post images soon, but hopefully in a few months I'll get the images out with the announcement and things and you'll see. But it's just, there's no time to it. Yeah.
Rob Lee: You won that around. Oh, thank you. Thanks. So this one is, I'll preface it specifically for you, me myself personally as some people like to say, what are three requirements in your opinion to be an artist? Focus. See, I already like where you're going.
Lewinale Havette.: Yeah, I don't think there's any other requirement other than focus. If it's what you want to do, just focus on it. That's all. At least that's for me. It might be different to someone else, but focus and that will cover so many other things. Yeah.
Rob Lee: See, this is again, like you were saying, you don't get the surface level. I'll have some people that will shy away from that question. Anyone that, no, no, no, no, no, no. What are required and they get very, very personal and I think focus is very, very, very important. It's like, I've heard people say, run your own race. That aligns with focus.
Lewinale Havette.: Yeah, it covers a lot of things. Yeah, it covers a lot of things.
Rob Lee: And we touched on this a little bit earlier, this next one. As a recipient that I've received a book from you and I again, thank you for sending me that book.
So this is a good question to ask. What book or book has given you the most, as an artist, like what have you gotten the most out of and that we have to wrestle with them to hit the whatever, the place, the Amazon or whatever the city wants to. But what book have you gotten the most of that's helped you as an artist? It may not really reflect in your work, but it's helped you navigate.
Lewinale Havette.: So Ocean Vong is an author who I absolutely adore. He wrote this book called Time is a Mother. And I just loved how it was so poetic and it slowed and it was sad, but beautiful at the same time. Haunting, but just incredibly light, which is really interesting. Not light, it was heavy.
Actually, it was very heavy. Another book, there's so many books. It's just, it's really hard to pinpoint one. I know Flash of the Spirit was a really good one that I read. Yeah, there it comes.
Rob Lee: So here's the last one. And this is more just an opening invitation. Is there anything exciting on the horizon that you want listeners to know about?
Lewinale Havette.: This is a game of flood, really. No, of course. So I have a show coming, a solo show in Berlin coming in a couple of months. I'm really excited about that. I've never been to Berlin, so this would be a cool kind of opportunity for me. So I have a solo coming in 2026 with Paulo Galleries in New York. So I'm just, you know, I'm just working to get ready for those.
Rob Lee: There you have it folks. I want to again thank Luanao Havette for inviting us to the studio for one. To catching up with us and letting us know about the new places that her work has gone and provide us with really valuable insights.
And for Luanao, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community. In and around your neck of the woods, you just have to look for it.
