Maurice James Jr.: Artist's Insight on Urban Influence & Authenticity in Art
Welcome to the Truth in This Art. Thank you for tuning into my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I am thrilled to have the pleasure of again speaking with my guest, my next guest, a self taught contemporary artist, graphic designer, self proclaimed propaganda artist who's based in Washington, D. C.
Rob Lee:His work focuses on portraying the splendor and the strength of black people while emphasizing the importance of black representation in mainstream pop culture. Please welcome Maurice James junior. Welcome to the podcast.
Maurice James Jr.:Thank you so much, man. I was looking forward to this. It's, the first review was really great, man. So I'm I'm sure this would be just as, just as dope.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Like, I like to look at the trajectory of doing interviews as, like, a ball rolling down a hill just gets, gets progressively worse. So, you know, and and and I kinda do these intros a little bit differently. So as I, you know, kinda revisit, and I I think it's always good to for folks who are listening to this one to always even go back and listen to the first one Yeah. To get sort of that trajectory.
Rob Lee:Not to, one, to see how much I've fallen off, but also to get a sense of, like, oh, this is more of the story. This is another chapter of this creative person's story, this artist story. So, you know, I think that there are there's a lot of of energy, a lot of juice in how we present ourselves. I think it's more power and off the top of the dome who are you creatively? What's your story, you know?
Rob Lee:So it'll give us that introduction of who you are.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, man. Maurice James Junior is a communication like, you know,
Maurice James Jr.:just discuss a couple of things with black people in various, ways.
Maurice James Jr.:So I use, like, you know, just discuss a couple of dates with black people in various, ways, so I use poster design and propaganda art to kinda, like, get those those conversations kinda percolating and going. So, yeah, man. Just, you know, just always, like like I told you earlier, always been a creative kid, man. Always just, like, enjoy just a creative space. And when I went full time as an artist, man, I never looked back because it's just, like, that's my realm.
Maurice James Jr.:That's where I belong. Like, the people that I meet, this all is all beautiful and positive, man. I meet so many, like, different type of creative people, and we all kinda, like, have this funny, unspoken fraternity of just, like, trying to just do, like, crazy work out here. We know being being an artist is, a little nuts, but, you know, it's dope though regardless.
Rob Lee:And and I I love hearing sort of the the full time. I love hearing the propaganda component. I I love that because, you know, when you you love a thing, you love a creative pursuit, you're speaking a language, you're able to use your creative work as a vehicle to get out your ideas to, you know, maybe and sometimes feed yourself Yeah. To to to kinda do your your lifestyle, that that matters a lot. So it's it's it's great to hear that and great to hear that it's at the root of, like, propaganda.
Rob Lee:Like, propaganda is
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. No. It's it's pretty heavy and, like, sometimes it's like a dirty word. And like I said, even explaining that to people when I was, like even some of the galleries I worked at, they was like, well, don't call it propaganda. Call it something else.
Maurice James Jr.:I'm like, well, that's what it is, though. Yeah. Because some people are afraid of it. So I mean, because they always think it's gonna be for sinister or kinda evil reason, but it's just communication based art, man. I'm just trying to use my creative ideas to push you into thinking about something differently.
Maurice James Jr.:You know?
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:And black people, I've never really had that, full stop as a as a one person focused on just that thing. We had a couple of cats in the past that did it, especially Emory for the Black Panther party.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:But that was just one kinda, like, instance of it. You know? So I love to just, like, you know, just be in that space to, like, just provide that.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And then having having your roots being, you know, from Philly, right? Mhmm. And now we're here in D. C.
Rob Lee:Where you're currently based. We're in, Eaton. We're like radio right now. Yeah. So shout out to Eaton for providing the facilities.
Rob Lee:No
Maurice James Jr.:problem at all.
Rob Lee:So having cities that or, I know this is a district, but cities, and I'm being being from Baltimore, having cities that are like in this mid Atlantic Northeast that are black cities. Yeah. And being a person that's speaking about something that's, you know, you know, as you said, it's it's it's propaganda or what have you, and it could be a little heavy. But kinda speaking to these things that we all kinda know, but we're not always allowed to talk about them. As you were touching on
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Maybe we should, you know, maybe you should call it something else versus propaganda. Maybe it should be thought art, nah, propaganda play.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. It's propaganda, man. Because, you know, there's only one word to kinda, like, really let's not let's just stamp it down for, like, for the what it is. And I think, and I've been learning this as I've been, like, growing doing this work that there's so many different ways of, like, utilizing propaganda for I'm I'm doing a show about trains, and it's it's pretty much propaganda poster work for trains and train systems for the underground railroad. The next show could be about anything else because I could just I'll just learn how to wield that that aesthetic to, like, you know, to do whatever I wanna do with it.
Maurice James Jr.:Sure.
Rob Lee:Yeah. So I wanna go back a little bit. Okay. And we all remember our firsts. What was the first piece of, like, art that you made?
Rob Lee:Like, you know, and also I think even in that there's a little bit of definition in that. Right? Where it's like, yeah. I used to draw these sketches. It's like, no.
Rob Lee:No. No. When you got to the point where you're like, this is this is art right here.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it wasn't until, I wanna say, my first full on exhibit at a gallery, and I had my work professionally printed on that that that beautiful paper that I used and then, like, professionally framed with the glass and the museum, like, set up and everything. I was like, oh, like, this is, like alright.
Maurice James Jr.:This is, like, some real deal art stuff going on here. Right? And then, the response also was beautiful. So I'm like, alright. I'm a yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:I'm a it took me a lot to even say I'm a artist, because I just, you know, I just had so much respect for the game. But, yeah, once I start seeing the pieces kinda, like, come in fruition and fully done, fully finished, and fully framed, I'm like, alright. Yeah. So this is some art shit right here. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Which one? I don't I can't pick which one that I saw first, and I I can decide. But if you go back if people go back to see my first show, they I can send I can send you a link to it. You can send people to it, but, it's Cleopatra when I did I did this, this beautiful one, this X Men poster with Beast and, James Baldwin.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:So when I saw that one finished, I'm like, alright. Yeah. And that one probably that one because that one kinda summed up my childhood in a multilayered and adulthood kinda way because, like, the Baldwin pieces and the and the the beast from the x men in nineties is, like, kind of a combination of, like, how I think about combining these these images or whatever to make them all make sense. So, yeah. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:That was when it was, like, it got real. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I love that. It's it's it's it's funny. Like, you know, in doing this and I kinda struggle at times with doing a podcast or what have you. Like, you know, you and I were talking a little bit before we got to like you know this interview in earnest about creative classism, right? And you know I started thinking about what does that mean and you actually asked me what does that mean.
Rob Lee:And you know, it's I don't know if I have that same sort of thing when it comes to, like, doing this as a creative, like, practice because I don't think it's old enough to even be considered in that conversation or, you know, because it's treated like content, you know. And, you know, is there a canon for podcast? What does that that look like? You know what I mean? And can podcasts be creative?
Rob Lee:Are podcasts art? Or are they archival? Is it anthropological?
Maurice James Jr.:I would say for the good ones, yes. Because there's a few no. No. No. Seriously.
Maurice James Jr.:Like, some some are just, like, you know, dead air, and it it's just you know? And I think there may be that. Some people just like, you know, my wife likes trash TV.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what
Maurice James Jr.:I mean? So, I mean, there's that, like, kind of frivolous, like, aspect of some things, but there are a few that are very informative. Like, they are time capsules. You know, I think there's one that I I listened to, one song. They basically they gave a historical background of a song and all the nuances and ins and outs of, like, you know, the the creative process and everything.
Maurice James Jr.:So those are and you could they don't really have a time. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think good podcast don't have a time. You can just pick it up anytime and just, like, you're not dated. You know what I mean?
Maurice James Jr.:So
Rob Lee:They have the evergreen stuff.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think in that in that space, yes. Yeah.
Rob Lee:K. Yeah. Because because, you know, I start, like, when I ask people questions, I try to apply it to what I do creatively. Mhmm. And it's like, alright.
Rob Lee:What is my first thing? And it's like, you know, I took a long time as a podcaster even before getting to a stage of saying, like, this is done for this. Other stuff might have been something else.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:It might have been something driving towards where I'm at now. But when I look back at sort of these steps, I look at like, you know, when I did something that was very concerted and you had to feel it, like this is what I'm getting at. And when you you're like, yeah. Dabble would have done some of this. I've done some of that.
Rob Lee:It's like, nah. This is some archer right here. This was, like, this was top tier, archival podcast journalistic, whatever.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. It's it's that, thing. I was I was thinking about it. I'm not because, people listen to less music on the radio now, but there's been multiple trips. Me and my wife been driving from DC to Philly or or or New Jersey to visit her family, and we're listening to, basically, talk radio the entire time.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. And I
Maurice James Jr.:was just, like, to pause it. Damn. Talk radio was, like, actually back, and it's, like, the the most informative ones are the ones that kinda keep you engaged while you're just, like, just driving whatever. You're learning something. So, you know, if you if if people wanna learn something, some people don't wanna just you know?
Maurice James Jr.:But I think I think for the people that do, podcasts are are dope for that reason.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And I and I think it's this this notion where, again, going to the sort of the art piece of it, where you don't want something to feel verified, right? And I wanna get your take on this, where like sort of the different classifications of art, like you work in sort of a visual, right? And, you know, if someone does sort of this, like I don't see the life in that or I don't know about this, what's your process? And they start to it's like my I'm very self.
Rob Lee:I don't know anything. But it's like, it looks kinda cool. Yeah. You you you made it. You know, what was the intent in it?
Rob Lee:And ask questions about it versus trying to interrogate
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Whether it's worthy of your attention creatively.
Maurice James Jr.:The the interrogation comes from just, the value system. They're trying to figure out how much they're willing to spend on how because they wanna know how much time you spend on this. I don't tell people every time, I've been working on this shit my entire life.
Maurice James Jr.:Yep.
Maurice James Jr.:Because I've been, like, conjuring these ideas or even the history that I learned as a child, even the the history that I studied as an adult, all can need to sum up me putting together all the pieces because I just it's a hotspot to everything that I've learned over the course of my time. So when I get that question about process and and and time, like, like, forever, I took a long time to think about this. Yeah. And to get it this good, man, like, to get
Rob Lee:it this
Maurice James Jr.:precise. So, yeah, that's just a way of them decide deciding how much they would wanna spend on it.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Put these 10000 hours in and
Maurice James Jr.:just like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I go when
Rob Lee:I go out there and I'm like, oh, well, so Rob, you're you're by your work. It's like, it's weird how we're playing this back
Maurice James Jr.:and forth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:And I
Rob Lee:was like, well, I've done 2,000 podcasts.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:I don't know what you want from me.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, you know, if I'm putting in 2 to 3 hours per you can do the math yourself, play it.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. It's a lot of time. It it is. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, you know, even, you know, as a teacher, and and and I now move to this sort of second second thing, but I think it ties where, you know, for me, being someone that's sharing something that I've learned is important to me. That's part of my creative sensibility. If I do anything creative, as I was Yeah. Yeah. You know, saying earlier I wanted to do something, you know, in film or what have you.
Rob Lee:That's at the root of it is just like I'm teaching someone something and Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, you know, spending the last 6 months as an educator, You know, 6 to 7 months as an educator that aligns. Even doing this
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:Like, chiefly, when I'm doing these interviews, it's like if I just say, Yo, Maurice, here's the microphone.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Go. And I'm gonna be over here doing something else.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:No. I'm trying to craft them. Like, I find this interesting and I hope other people will. And I think you're very interested. I think your work is very interesting.
Maurice James Jr.:Thank you, man.
Rob Lee:So Absolutely. So helping to craft that that conversation in that way, that's that's the thing.
Maurice James Jr.:Well, you know, it it it it goes into that I was by getting to that point, it goes into me and my friend were talking about, at at a exhibit that I had. It started it's called Automatic. It started a couple weeks ago, or, like, or last week or whatever it was. But we were talking about, like, functional art, like, art having a function, or does it need to have function? Or, so I think people kinda struggle with, like, the functionality of work because, like, you know, some some artists want to already have complete function.
Maurice James Jr.:I want my art to do something. I want to teach people everything. And some people don't wanna make art, they wanna make something that look good. Yeah. Right?
Maurice James Jr.:So it's like, when it comes you you asked me about, like, podcasting. I I think it's a very functional art if when done right.
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what I mean? And I think I I always try to achieve the highest function on top of the fact that I wanna make it beautiful in my work anyway. You know what I mean? I wanna make it visually stunning and bright and colorful and interesting, but I also wanted to be, like, very much on point for you to ask a lot of questions about the why. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:I've had that in the in the studio. One one of the only pieces that I actually have for you is the card that you did. Right? Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So I have a creative I have 2, actually. 2 creative altars in the studio. Mhmm. So the card that you did is on one of them. It's on the first one, and someone came in there doing the studio visits.
Rob Lee:It's like, what's this?
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. I
Rob Lee:was like, so my man Maurice did this. Right? You know, pop culture. Right? Propaganda.
Rob Lee:Right? And they're like, go on.
Maurice James Jr.:Yes. Yes. There's a lot of questions involved with that, I think. But, everything. Even these stickers on this wall right here all were made to, like, say or or, you know, present something or advertise something or whatever.
Maurice James Jr.:Could be your name. Could be anything. So, it's it's always been a functional art, but it's always been like that. Right? It's always been something we think this is, like, dispose boards.
Maurice James Jr.:I use sticker to stuff, but I just chose to, like, give it a fine art edge.
Rob Lee:Do would you would it be how can I ask? So if it's something that feels a bit more accessible
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:Like not rarefied
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:Do you think that's part of that equation where, let's say, I have a design. I can pay someone to make a design. I can make a design and then get some stickers done. Mhmm. That's not in that class or even something as accessible as you saw what I brought with me.
Rob Lee:I have my studio set up right here.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah, a
Maurice James Jr.:100% yeah.
Rob Lee:And it's just like, well, I don't know if that really counts. Where is your full like, we're in a studio.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:I'm using this.
Maurice James Jr.:No. So, yeah, that's that's just the, I guess the the grand scope of, like, what an artist is supposed to operate in and and do. No. I think that, no. It it it could be done anywhere, honestly, man.
Maurice James Jr.:Like and I think the rarefied part of it is the person in the mind of the person that's, like, creating it. You know what I mean? Like, just because you can have your whole operation in the bag, that does not make that that is that's just a dope ass thing that you can do. I could I could set up anywhere and do pirate radio
Rob Lee:100%.
Maurice James Jr.:Which was important because some of the radio waves are are some time controlled by whatever systems or whatever. So we need power radio. We need propaganda. We need truth tellers or, you know, even, like, the there's some truth in the joint. So Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. For that reason, I think that it's a beautiful way of operating certain things. Yeah.
Rob Lee:That's that's great.
Maurice James Jr.:And Like,
Maurice James Jr.:for instance, I could take if I had a particular piece that I wanna just, like, just I give to the world, I can print it on that that that plaster paper and just bring it up on walls just because I can. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And and that's and the the irony of it is a lot of times you're filling out applications for grants. It's like, so is this publicly available? Yes, it is. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yes, it is.
Rob Lee:You
Maurice James Jr.:can be printing at any size.
Rob Lee:I can take a microphone and be out there in the street. So probably on the streets right here.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Because who was, there was a a radio guy who was on the street, I guess, in London, like, 10 bus foot or They do, like, a
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. He's on the street.
Maurice James Jr.:You know
Maurice James Jr.:what I mean? So it's like, you know
Rob Lee:It's like, what do y'all want at this very moment? That's literally the vibes.
Maurice James Jr.:Well, they want they they want, no rules that with rules. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Rob Lee:But here's the rules we're making.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Right. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So in that, because we're we're kinda, like, circling around this a little bit, talk a bit about because I because I I hear, like, there's a revolutionary energy there. Mhmm. There's a, like, yeah, I think it's this, but it's really this Right. Sort of energy in which I share. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:Is is there a a life experience that has shaped that sensibility, like something that you remember as a young person or even, early in sort of this stage of the art journey that you're like, yeah, this really either informed, like, no. I was right all along or this was, like, this set me this set you on a direction.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, hell yeah. No. No. No. I did an exhibit last year, called Black Trust, and it was really about the conversation of, like, black people, like, truly having full belief in each other to, like, you know, go against go go for a common goal, which is, like, you know, the freedom and liberation of their their mind, body, and spirit.
Maurice James Jr.:Right? And the art kinda like this and the poster work all kinda intertwined in different ways about how we can trust each other and and other avenues of, like, what it means to, like, build trust. And I still, to this day, even though that that show was last summer, had people that went to that exhibit say, yo. I really thought about that show that you did because, like, it really kinda I sat sat with him. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Right? And then, another cat who's a spoken word artist wrote a whole, like, piece about the idea of black trust. So, you know, those moments, man, like, I can I see, like, the ideas kinda really sitting with people?
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:It's real dope, man, because, you know, I I sit with a lot of different black emotions about the I see the world being nuts, and I see black people kinda be caught up in the midst of it all. And I just wanna help. You know what I mean? So whatever I can do now, every exhibit, I do have to, like, lock in on the one idea per year for my main show, but it's always, like, you know, for the betterment of black people's hearts and minds, whatever.
Rob Lee:And and and that moves towards the canon.
Maurice James Jr.:You know
Rob Lee:what I mean?
Maurice James Jr.:It's like
Rob Lee:like, if someone looks at my like, when someone's putting on an album, it's like, yeah. Here's my full catalog.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's all. I do kinda, like, stack it that way whereas, like, every year, like, just, like, the main album.
Maurice James Jr.:And in between that, there's, like, little mix tapes, more, like, little freestyles, I guess. But, like, for the most part, you know, the main album's gonna come out in August, July, August, and this is gonna be the main theory and thesis about what I believe in as far as I I didn't think I that I think I need that that that black people need to see. So yeah.
Rob Lee:So I'm I'm waiting for, like, the 16 minute maxi dance single version of it, you know, like
Maurice James Jr.:I'm telling you, man. It's, like but but I think that's the thing about art kinda all kinda working itself together as far as, like, even, like, music music, or anything is because, like, this is how people kinda understand how to build, you know, you know, full on, like, album or structures, whatever. It's like, you know, now this is, like, a new new album coming out. You know? Because people understand that aspect of, like, here's an artist, and he's at least one main thing every year.
Maurice James Jr.:I think most artists do try to do one total main songs of it every year.
Rob Lee:So so talk a little bit more about that piece. It's not process oriented as much as, sort of, like, knowing that you're you're go it's more of the ideation phase. Right? Where I do this. Like, I'm thinking of, and I'm trying to try something a bit different this season, where, you know, in the past I'm like, I'm gonna do this number of episodes Yeah.
Rob Lee:And these are the people I wanna talk to. I'm being a bit more strategic and having these sort of built in breaks. So I can percolate and just sit with some things and think through some things. What do I really care about? Who do I wanna talk to?
Rob Lee:What is, who can I get? Yeah. And things of that nature. So when you know that you're gonna have, like, sort of that the the the main album and then sort of sort of these, here's my guest appearances. I'm gonna do this.
Rob Lee:And what is it? Like, 2008, Lil Wayne? I'm just going on everything. What what is what is that ideation look like for you, especially with the time and the ID economy that we're Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:So, I always start about a year ahead of myself.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:So, once Black Trust exhibit was done last summer, I was like, alright. I gotta start thinking about it next. You know? Even though I don't have anything about it because I had other stuff kinda going on for the rest of the year that I I kinda do, Umbrella, and I do a couple other different different, like, really dope art things in the meantime. But, I always save a spot for my next, like, main theory.
Maurice James Jr.:I always save a spot for it, and I don't necessarily, know how it's gonna look until I I finish a piece that kinda, like, in that vein. I'm like, alright. This is a good start. This is a
Maurice James Jr.:I like I like
Maurice James Jr.:what kind of business is going, and I just build on, just that. I build on some of the, like I I do some some stuff here and there, like, in the you know, just messing around.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:And then the art the shows normally build theirselves. You know, but then I threw myself into another exhibit in April that was already kinda pre built, but I'm actually finishing the the ideas and theories, which is the underground railroad
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Being a functional system for black people to travel, for safety. Yeah. So, I mean, it I just I I always give myself a year in advance to kinda, like, get get busy. I'm at this point in that show, I am at this stage where I'm, like, showing proof of concept. I'm sharing it with certain individuals.
Maurice James Jr.:That kinda sound like, you know, this is kinda what I'm thinking about.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And
Maurice James Jr.:I'm also going to print for some of the larger ones. So yeah.
Rob Lee:So so touch touch more on it, you know, as far as that because, obviously, this is, you know, sort of this this month of interviews is is focused on sort of, you know, the visual artists. It's gonna, you know, these these sort of April interviews. This is what I loosely earmarked this month for. And it just so happens it might be, you know, serendipitous, but it just so happens that you have your show.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Rob Lee:So So so talk about those ideas and sort of, like, when what was that sort of first the nugget, if you will?
Maurice James Jr.:Well, for Wishbone, for the Underground Railroad show Yes. Alright. So for the Underground Railroad show, and I think a lot of my creative processes, like, kind of seeing, were already out there that preexist that I can kinda manipulate or change or alter. Because it's so, prominent and important. I can do something with that to make it, to kinda reuse it to make it for black people.
Maurice James Jr.:Right? So I looked at the underground train system in in the UK, their their their tube, whatever they wanna call it. And it's, like, basically, underground railroad. So I just took that, their logo, and I just kinda put railroad underneath underground.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:It started from there. And then I'm like, alright. Well, how do I visualize this so people fully understand what it looks like to be a actual Underground Railroad? So I use old imagery from the old Underground Railroad book of the The Runaway Slave Yeah. And kinda put underneath it.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Then it made a lot more Right? And then every time I would, like, see other train graphics, I would be like, alright. I can use that, manipulate that, and always just, in the back of my mind, consider the function of, like, the underground railroad in the first place, and then how do I modernize that.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:So it is a modern take on just that that train system, from the from the, great migration to to to the future Yeah. Of, like, just, like, transport. Right? And then, also, what's leading to the summer show is, like, where the was, like, where where are those trains going?
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm. And they're
Maurice James Jr.:going to the city that I'm building. Right? So this is like a kind of precursor to, like, the actual full exhibit.
Rob Lee:Oh, so it's the warm up?
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. It's the warm up.
Rob Lee:Okay. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I mean, as you're you're describing it, like, I'm seeing all of these different things. Like I'm seeing the, the Box Brown situation. I'm almost seeing because, you showed me a little still earlier, with even the monorail vibe.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Sounds like this gives me fifties comics vibe. But then as you look a bit deeper, it's like, oh, those that's some black shit right there. Okay. Got you.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah. But, no, that's that's that's the, the way I like to to not disguise it, but the way I like to, like, weave into, like, everyday media. Right?
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:To where those, like, oh, that's familiar, but wait. Oh, wait.
Maurice James Jr.:Uh-huh.
Maurice James Jr.:That ain't for me, though.
Maurice James Jr.:You know
Maurice James Jr.:what I mean? So, you know, even, like, so taking it, like, I that's from Juman. We're right here with, the Popular Science Magazine. I had never seen a cover of Popular Science with a black man on the cover being an engineer.
Rob Lee:Right.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what I mean? So I think these things are open to, be created because it doesn't exist.
Maurice James Jr.:It it
Rob Lee:and then it has this vintage thing where you initially look at it, and you're just like, oh, okay. Cool. This is like a historical artifact. And you look closer, like, oh, no. No.
Rob Lee:No. No. No. There's messaging here
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah.
Rob Lee:That is, on the surface over my head, and I'm looking deeper. It's like, no. I I love this. Yeah. This is this is some this is me.
Rob Lee:This is what have you.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. And I think it's just, again, like, with with black art, man, like, in in individuals we can produce and and then there's no rules to it anyway. So it's really like, alright. So what doesn't exist or what haven't we seen, or, you know, I haven't even seen a lot of movies about, like, black engineers and, you know, who created, constructed these things.
Maurice James Jr.:Right? So I just wanna just display it on black people's hearts or anybody's heart. They they wanna, like, visualize and see the show of, like, this, the ingenuity of black people to the point where they just, like, we're just, like, they're trying to find any creative way now using technology of getting black people towards freedom. And I think that's at the core is really what's really about that.
Rob Lee:When I and you you said a thing there, like, you're not seeing a black, you know, black person on, you know, popular signs, what have you, or even, you know, I always go to, like, pop culture Right.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Media. And and and I I remember having a conversation off mic with, someone in television. Mhmm. We were talking about, like, doing a comedy in Baltimore. And he was just like, well, you should.
Rob Lee:He's like, because obviously you guys are funny. There are black people there. That's funny. That's this and that. He's like, but it seems like they only care about seeing drug dealers and people getting blocked off.
Rob Lee:Right. Right. And I was like, I don't know why that's the the case. Like, I've been, you know, black for 30 9 years, you know. There was this one, like, 6 month period where
Maurice James Jr.:I was
Rob Lee:like, I don't know. But Yeah. No. No. No.
Rob Lee:I was black I've been black my entire life and, you know, the people I'm around, I enjoy comedy. Mhmm. I enjoy a good laugh. I enjoy satire. I enjoy all of these these different things.
Rob Lee:And I don't see it reflected. And and something is, I guess, disposable as comedy. Because comedy is not looked at as super important. Right? But when you get to
Maurice James Jr.:I I I well, I I no. I I think it depends on the comedy, man. I I listen. I grew up hardcore comedy nerd, man.
Maurice James Jr.:I grew
Maurice James Jr.:up doing stand up I I did stand up comedy for a little while in Philly at the laugh house, like, way back in the day. Me and my friends were always funny in high school, so we decided we just wanted to, like, go try it out. Yeah. And we did we did fairly well. We always had these unique, crazy perspectives on it.
Maurice James Jr.:And, and you meet, like actually, you meet the comedians. You see the I love the atmosphere of, like, the the comedy club. I I still do that. They love it. Now I went to, improv here in DC, and it looks just it's like a dark.
Maurice James Jr.:Carpet's terrible. The tables are the same. You get a tall ass beer, and you just see whatever comedian under those lights do.
Rob Lee:Metal, guys.
Maurice James Jr.:Yes. But, I think that, yeah, comedy has a very, like, like, beautiful function. I think I wanted to ask you a question about that because I think because I think I was having a conversation with my wife about this. Yeah. Like, black people and satire
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:And how we don't fully know how to use it yet.
Maurice James Jr.:Or or
Maurice James Jr.:Okay. Or or or we know how to use it, but, like, other black folks are not kinda, like, down with you. Like, you making fun of certain things.
Rob Lee:That's I I have noticed that. I find, like you know how you you you like, I try to work on this, and I was and I was and and and just to clarify, when I was saying, like, I I guess comedy is not it's not treated as such.
Maurice James Jr.:Okay. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I think that's more of my my thing because I'm very invested in in comedy. So when I'm, you know, one of the things I do when I'm uncomfortable in a situation, right, I'm trying to use comedy Yeah. To get myself comfortable. And as soon as soon as someone is, like, laughing along with me, it's like, alright. Gotcha.
Rob Lee:Yeah. You know, and and it's sort of that. So, you know, you might sit down, like, alright. I might have written this bit right here for my introduction or or something along those lines, and I look for who's the people that that get it.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:They're like, Okay, that's really funny. Yeah, yeah. Or who's the people that get it with a delay? Those are the people I actually wanna be friends with. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:It's like you didn't get it initially, it's like, oh. Yeah. That's really, you're you're a silly bastard. And the ones that don't, that that just stone faced, I was like, nah, my podcast ain't for you.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:You know what I mean? Yeah. Because it's like, it's there's some Yeah. Subtleness there. It's not as and and I and I hear this from people.
Rob Lee:And I don't know if you you hear this. But I hear this from people where they're like, well, you have to be really voice juice and out there hitting people over the head with what your message is.
Maurice James Jr.:And
Rob Lee:I was like, I don't know if I need to I feel I don't know. I feel like I can do the thing that I'm comfortable with versus just being very, like, yeah. This is a black podcast that covers black things.
Maurice James Jr.:You know you know what, I think the, heading over the head part is just consistency. If you consistently do the same brilliant thing Yeah. Then you you don't have to bombard people with, like, the idea. It's just you know, this is just what I do. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Right? It's the
Rob Lee:the sensibilities are are are baked in, and then I I finally you know, I do the things that are interest for me, and the perspective is gonna be from this angle. Mhmm. And, you know, I find, like, even going back to the sort of comedy piece, when, you know, as you you know, we're we're in the same tribe as it were. Mhmm. You know, you start talking about, like, references to the nineties, X Men, things of the sort.
Rob Lee:And I don't have a reference, like, so I I think I was like, yo. So who's working in this department at GI Joe? Right. And you see the people that are like, okay, you're you're stupid. That's funny.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:And other people are like, I don't know what you're talking about. I say, yo, bro. What? What are you doing? Or even at times, because, you know, I always get trying to wrapped up and and try to get pulled into the, the improv space.
Rob Lee:Right?
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:And I observe. I observe the comedians there, and I'm like, alright, so what's this bit of okay. That's that's really funny. And trying to go in there and taking off all of the I tried my damnedest to take off all of the biases. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And just like, alright. Is this funny? That's the that's where I'm starting at. Is this funny?
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. I think improv does have a funny, line where it's that way because I tried improv once. I'm like, no. That's the same the the same the way I kinda, like, construct my my my comedic. I need more time to think about what I'm what I'm saying and doing.
Maurice James Jr.:Now some people are really good at that that that improvisation. They just say they just can get it. Some people are hilarious at it. Some people are just, you know, it just, like, almost they just all just kinda play around on stage because I mean, Blue Chip's also cool. So, yeah, I'll leave Improv alone there.
Rob Lee:Those are different skill sets.
Maurice James Jr.:Yes. Different skill set. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, but I and I think there are other complementary things that can come from it. Like, I'm very much a, I'm a problem solver. Think on my feet. And I think most creative folks are. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:But that's a that's a 3 zero one class, improv.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. That's a that's a whole different aspect because you also never know because you got you you're basing off what the the next person's doing. Yeah. So you don't they they have a whole different setup that they have going on in their mind also. And if you can get it where it's, like, symbiotic where y'all kinda, like, kinda all on the same page, that that takes time.
Maurice James Jr.:That's when you have a team Yeah. And prop squad. But if you're just, like, people you're just kinda throwing together and y'all gotta come come come up with something, that's a whole different
Rob Lee:You're not throwing up those lobs yet.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. No. No. No. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. You gotta know everybody's strengths. But I do appreciate it, though. I do appreciate it. But stand up comedy has always just been that thing for me just because, you know, as a kid, I'm growing up watching Eddie Murphy and, you know, Richard Pryor and Chris Rock and Mooney, some of the white cast too, like Carlin and MCAS.
Maurice James Jr.:I watched everybody, but I just you know, I was enamored with that that that, that that business, man, so much as a kid, man, on top of, like, also loving comic books and film and all type of music and all type of and sports and all type of other stuff. But it's just that thing where, like, I think in the nineties, all that was just the day. They popularized everything. So everything is kinda, like, out there in its full kinda breath.
Rob Lee:When you when you see the things start coming together, when those things start to converge, I would imagine, like, I was, like, hell, yeah. Like, when you see what is it? Remember the old, like, little penny commercials? Mhmm. When you see, like, oh, the streams are crossing.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And or you see, like, was that Spike Lee in this joint commercial?
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. No. Exactly. Yeah. And you
Rob Lee:you start having those things and, you know, you know, from from that era, it starts it starts finding itself into what you're doing now as because everything just repeats.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:So, you know, it's just like, well, I'm adding to it. I'm adding this little notch to it. So when I can have a conversation with someone based on it, and I like the way that you described it, like, the process, what goes into all of the work. Mhmm. It's like my life actually.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah. 100%. So when I have a conversation with someone who is in, like, fine art, right? Mhmm. And they're, I guess, in, like, when you think of classical music, you think of something very rarefied.
Rob Lee:You should you go in a tuxedo and all of that. And I like, it's this dude He's in other places, but I've only seen him in Baltimore. A dude named Steve Pacman. Mhmm.
Maurice James Jr.:And he
Rob Lee:does this BSO fusion stuff. And it's like classical music with, like, hip hop. And I'm like those things generally, I'm what was that process like? What was that pitch process like? But naturally I gravitate towards it and I just say this before moving to this next thing.
Rob Lee:I remember going to the first show of his that, I was invited to and it was like Drake and Tchaikovsky. Mhmm. I'm writing my questions for the interview that I'm gonna inevitably do with him. Yeah. I hadn't booked the interview.
Rob Lee:Hadn't reached out. I just had questions.
Maurice James Jr.:And I
Maurice James Jr.:talked to this guy.
Rob Lee:Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Because it just clicks on I like in in terms of the sensibilities, I like just these things shouldn't go together, but here's how they do.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. I think that is now maybe I have a personal bias. I think that's the uniqueness of, in black people's minds because we've been absorbing so much and have to learn so much, like, on on both sides. Like, we have to sometimes learn about these classical world things that we just had to learn because it's world history and that we learned that in school. But then also, we have secondary education, which is, like, autumn black something which is we we we absorb.
Maurice James Jr.:And then we somehow see, like, the,
Maurice James Jr.:how
Maurice James Jr.:a way to, like, be using both of them at the same time. And, also, like, kinda using this thing that will be foreign, to black people and kinda, like, lead them into it, like, with something that that they're very familiar with. Yeah. And I like doing that with a lot of work that I do. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:It's because I wanna, like, just, like, kinda bridge that gap. Even that that you the underground rebel is just one of those examples of, like, here are 2 things that are absolutely separate Yeah. That I can kinda bring together and fuse into a seamless piece of work.
Rob Lee:Like, here's the connections and, you just find those instances where there was a a podcast that I used to do, and I may have mentioned this previously, either off mic or on, but, you know, to you, you know, unofficially black
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:And doing that podcast for the time in which I did it. And the the idea was being told by people that look like me and my co host
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:That, oh, that black people don't do that. Right. It's like black people don't like wrestling? Like wrestling. Like the thing with okay cool the sports thing.
Maurice James Jr.:That's not true at
Rob Lee:all. Alright cool. So I'm curious about this one because I've I've run into to this and we touched on it a little bit. People, actually no let me go back a little bit. This question and we touched on this one a little bit too.
Rob Lee:So, you know, being a DC guy now, being a Philadelphia guy just inherently, from from each of those cities, they're they're different. Obviously, like I like Philly a lot. I think Philly is like the next version next level of Baltimore in some ways.
Maurice James Jr.:They're very similar.
Rob Lee:What is it about either city, whether it be DC, whether it be Philly that, you know, kinda you it inspires your work, kinda adds to your work, maybe, you know, and informs your work or even, you know, has some sort of impact on it. Like, now I wanna do that, you know. Like, tell tell me about that.
Maurice James Jr.:Well, I would say that what I've learned, exhibiting in, DC is, you know I believe this is one of those cities everybody thinks that they're that or believes that they are a smart, brilliant person. Right? So you get a lot of that, super educated kinda, like, theory on, you know, on the work and and what you're doing. So I think those conversations are always unique because, you know, I'm I'm always very curious about, like, you know, what, the world did to the the 12 black person's mind, how they got there, and some of the question that they asked. So I think DC is unique in that way because, like, you know, I'm not saying that the questions I got in in Philly were not smart.
Maurice James Jr.:I'm just saying that there's a lot more people in DC that kinda frequent these things that could, like, that really believe they're brilliant. So they wanna, like, also have this very deep conversation about sometimes, that a piece that doesn't even require that much deeper
Maurice James Jr.:than I thought.
Maurice James Jr.:Because I happened many times. I did something that I just did it just to do it. But but I'll but, actually, I learned that. Maybe I did do something. Maybe I don't maybe I don't know how smart I am.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what I'm saying?
Rob Lee:So,
Maurice James Jr.:there is, like, that aspect. But Philly, I think, for me, anyway, is the the I just appreciate always appreciate the honesty of it all. Because if you want some bullshit, they will let you know.
Rob Lee:That's that's where that Baltimore similarity is at.
Maurice James Jr.:Yes. Yeah. And, you know, and, also, Philly is one of those cities where, depending on what you do, anything they got that they can do it.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Doctor. Fucking do that shit.
Rob Lee:I like that. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:That ain't
Rob Lee:that special. Right.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what
Maurice James Jr.:I'm saying? So, I mean, there's that, man. But I'll love you the way, man. I I I do I miss home, a lot of times just for that reason because I I because even going out to, like, bars and clubs, in, like, DC compared to, like, Philly Yeah. Philly, this just has I just it just has the air that we should use to that.
Maurice James Jr.:At least that tension of, like, this whole atmosphere just being, at any time could be, like, terribly violent.
Rob Lee:I mean, it's it's one of those things that's,
Maurice James Jr.:like It's weird, dawg. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just it's just it was just one of those things.
Maurice James Jr.:It's one
Rob Lee:of those things where it's like, now I gotta prove it again.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. I'm not from home, man. I got you know, I did a show in Philly not too long ago. And, like, you know but this is, like, a chill really nice, like, chill gallery, so it wasn't it wasn't as intense.
Maurice James Jr.:But the one I did, in in in in the in the middle of West Philly, on fifty second Street, anybody can go in there and check it out. And they were just like they they were like, oh, fuck who this. No. I mean, they yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:It's just like
Maurice James Jr.:you know, they they weren't necessarily gonna buy it because, you know, it wasn't that type of scenario, but they just, like they got what I was saying. They, like, yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah. It's it's a top tier thing where in to your your your point about the the smart people thing, that's really true. Because I I remember this one time I was down here. I ran into a few different people Yeah. And they were telling me what my podcast was to them.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. I just be talking to interesting people. That's pretty much it. They know more than I do.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I I I fake it most of the time. Mhmm. They said, no. No.
Rob Lee:What you're really doing is I was like, sure.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. That's exactly what I was
Rob Lee:You know what? I never heard about it that way. You know what? You should you should write a review. Right.
Rob Lee:Let them know. I get older. I had to have a meeting before too. I was
Maurice James Jr.:I was following this lady, that was I I I feel like she's an older woman. I think she's maybe older or she's might have been, like, around same age. But she just had all these great points. I'm like, yo, you wanna write an interview about this? Because everything he's saying is great.
Maurice James Jr.:And I would love to be able to explain it this way, but I just I don't know.
Rob Lee:Ghost interviewer.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. No. It was it was it was kinda crazy. But, yeah, there's a lot of that, man. But I I do appreciate it just for that reason because I learned so much from just, like, what I show and what it does to people.
Maurice James Jr.:You know
Maurice James Jr.:what I mean? Yeah. I just learned so much.
Rob Lee:So to to this next question is sort of a a 2 parter, and I got 2 more after this. So this this 2 parter one, and I'm gonna do my best to combine them. So, obviously, podcast, The Truth and Lazar. What does the role of of truth play in your work, how you approach your work, so on? And, you know, we've heard about red flags.
Rob Lee:We heard about green flags and all of those. Creatively, what are your non negotiables?
Maurice James Jr.:As
Maurice James Jr.:far as what I do? As far as far as, you know,
Rob Lee:Like, even if you were gonna, like, work with a gallery or something,
Maurice James Jr.:you know, like Alright. Well
Rob Lee:Like, I don't bank with that.
Maurice James Jr.:I'll I'll I'll start with the first question first, as far as the truth, man.
Rob Lee:I think, the
Maurice James Jr.:truth is what kinda, like, locks in and protects my work because I try to add as much real history as possible. Yeah. So, like, that kinda, like even if the people wanna say, that's what's made up. I said, well, research it and then see and see what people are lying. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:You know? So I think I think there's truth in that part that I just, like, always gotta have in there with her repeats that I do. There's always some truth in there from the individuals to the idea that or to or to the fact that this doesn't exist and it needs to or why doesn't it exist. It's another level of truth that I try to, like, produce and present because, like, why haven't you had a brother on the cover of Popular Science being an engineer? Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:You know? Why why would we not want them to see that? I wanna see that. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Maurice James Jr.:So I think there's truth within that. Now as far as, like, you know, red flags or green flags, I mean, I really judge it based I I normally won't work with a gallery till I kinda get a feel for it. So I'll go to a show a pre a show before I even have one
Rob Lee:there. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:To kinda see how the how the curator is or the gallery owner is or whatever. Just, like, kinda check their temperature to see what they where they're kinda showing. But if they ask me to change anything or or change the language or, you know, whatever, I can't change anything at this point because people expect me to, like, be honest about everything that I produce in the show. So yeah. No.
Rob Lee:That's that's that's legit. Like Yeah. You know, I've I've had that a few times.
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:You know, as you can see, I'm a large black man. Right. You know, it's sort of this this thing where because at the same time, I'm shy too, which like, no. You're not. You do a podcast.
Rob Lee:I was like, yes. It's usually one person or it's behind a glass where I can front.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:But, sort of, the point is I've been, you know, as well, why don't you just rah rah on stage and people over the head with it? Or, you know, I I talk about one of the drivers in doing this initially was I didn't like that shit that Trump said about Baltimore.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:And I was like, I'm gonna do a podcast in in many instances trying to disprove that that sentiment
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:About Baltimore and, I think, cities that are similar to it. Right. That is sort of the byline. Mhmm. And I I remember I was asked to do a talk about sort of doing that podcast, the start of it, the genesis, all of it.
Rob Lee:He said, can you keep all of the Trump stuff out there?
Maurice James Jr.:And I
Rob Lee:was like, so you want me to change actually what the story is?
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Then now you're changing history.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And I was like, nah, I just don't think this is a fit. And I'm oh, and, you know, I I initially, I said something completely different, and then I deleted that email and then wrote a better one that was not as spicy.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, man. There's always saying it reads telling that. You know what? Nah.
Rob Lee:I'll keep that draft.
Maurice James Jr.:I'm a keep the, you know, decorum. You know what I mean? Yeah. I understand. And and
Rob Lee:and that's sort of the the thing or what have you, and, you know, and that's why I put that question in there, the whole truth component, because, you know, when I'm I'm I'm doing this, it's just like, well, you know, people ask me all the time. Yeah. Yo, can I curse on this? I was like, whatever's true for you.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah. No doubt.
Rob Lee:Be be be you, and, you know, it's on me as the the host not to be like, meh, all that, you know, it's never really my my lane in this, but, you know, when I'm outside of this and having a real conversation with someone, those are the people that, kinda kinda going back to the comedy thing I was saying earlier, you know who your people are.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:You know, and then who you can actually chat with. Like after this, you and I could get a coffee and have, like, a beer after this. Well, it's it's it's noon. But still, my point is
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Is that not everyone is is in that same thing. So it's a kind of figuring out who can you can you roll with. And I think in some instances, doing doing these podcasts
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:It's just like I'm interested in creative work and that's the context in it. You know, sometimes I get friends out of this, sometimes I I don't. But I don't leave with, hey, let's be boys and now let me ask you some weird questions Right. So I have you.
Maurice James Jr.:No. The the the the add on to the truth component, man, I I'm, I've had a lot of conversation with a lot of different artists, man. And I think that sometimes you can tell artists not being sure, not being serious. You need to see it. And then also even how the way they talk about the work or discuss it.
Maurice James Jr.:You know, they don't really care about what they're saying or doing. They're just doing something for their times or they're trying to be timely just to get, like, you know, views. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like so, like, even people that let's say a celebrity passes away, and they just do a whole couple of about different pieces of, like, just paintings of, like, Nimsey Hussle or or or Colby.
Maurice James Jr.:It's just, like, you know of course, they probably, like, care about these people, but, you know, I think it's just there's there's not much truth other than other than you just wanna just produce something to get people to see it.
Rob Lee:And you didn't see all those murals when Carl Weathers passed away? It's like, man, Rocky, you know
Maurice James Jr.:No. And that's motherfucker, Pablo Creed.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:And I grew up in Philly. Rocky has a statue.
Rob Lee:100%.
Maurice James Jr.:And people still visit to this day. Yeah. Which always kinda blurts those lines of, like, movies being real to people and not. It's a that's a whole different conversation for another day. We could talk about that for a long time, man.
Rob Lee:Philadelphia and Detroit to a lesser extent, because they if they get that actual statue of Rebel cop, it's like, you guys are just cartoon cities. You're not real places.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yes. Even though Robocop is, an interesting city, and and a lot of my a lot of my show in the summertime is based on creating a mega city. Yeah. And and that, that that old school's, like, sixties idea, man.
Maurice James Jr.:I wanna build this goddamn whole city over. Or Walt Disney saying this is he had a whole display. I'm building this motherfucking amusement park.
Maurice James Jr.:Yep.
Maurice James Jr.:And he was just, like, just showing it to people. Right? And then until he got, like, full funding to actually get and get the land to do it. So, I like that component of, like, you know, the next phase of the work that I'm doing is really dope. I'm gonna I'm gonna show you the ideas.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. In full function, I'm gonna have, like, a little I'm gonna have a toy train inside this inside the train show just to kinda, like, so kids can see even understand this whole train system that I'm trying to operate.
Rob Lee:It it's something about that that that piece of showing someone what the work could be. It's very similar to because you're you're wearing your Brooklyn hat.
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:It's the Spike Lee thing of going out there and pitching. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's still having to do that. And and even, you know, I remember it was a point and, you know, especially the sort of being timely sort of thing.
Rob Lee:You know, I I always joke about it because podcasters are funny.
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:And she's like, oh, yeah. How are you gonna do your, you know, entanglement podcast? And you're already gonna talk about the same thing.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Case as far as I do whatever's going on. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Right. Yeah. And part of it is you have to be that because of the nature of what it is, but also you you can choose to do something different. Something that's has more, I guess, gets married or what have you, and that's not as disposable. But but this notion of showing someone what the work is, whatever that work might be if you're pitching
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm. And
Rob Lee:you're showing, like, this is what my vision is. Right.
Maurice James Jr.:This is
Rob Lee:why I'm like, I don't need to audition for you. Yeah. You know, when someone's like, yeah, so tell me about your your analytics. I was like, you don't care about it, so what will I tell you? Yeah.
Rob Lee:I was like, I have this is the number to care about. I've done this many interviews in this many markets. What do you want?
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, I do remember at a point where I thought it was a really cool idea when you know someone did a, they read their resume as a podcast. Mhmm. And I was like, that's kind of cool you just send it to them. Yeah. It's like, here's a different file.
Rob Lee:It's like, that's a different file. It's a different energy. And essentially, if you're you're applying for that, here's a sample. Here's my portfolio. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Right. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So so this one this one is, and I've done this by virtue of being down here today. Do you have a creative bubble? And if so, how often do you you step away from it, hit that reset button? Do you do like creative fasting? Talk about that a little bit.
Maurice James Jr.:Creative bubble. I mean or, like, when I when I get to the point where I can't I don't wanna do anything anymore?
Rob Lee:Well, more so, like, you know, like, I will do most of my interviews for a while they were all at home.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:I'm in my, like, creative space.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, okay.
Rob Lee:And then my context in many ways are shaped like that because this is my reality.
Maurice James Jr.:Mhmm.
Rob Lee:But when I step away from it, it's like, oh, I'm learning something. I get new questions. So I go to a different environment or even this when you're doing, I think, this concept of I I like to call creative fasting. It's like, you're not gonna do anything for I'm just gonna do stuff for fun.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. So, my creative fast and, you know, various things. I just I either just shut it off or I just say, you know, I'm not worried about doing nothing right today or or I'm like, well, the work is already done. I get chilled. I don't got tangled with it right now.
Maurice James Jr.:But how I kinda, like like, release and decompress. Yeah. Video games still help, man. Like, I play MLB The Show. That's a good one.
Maurice James Jr.:MLB The Show is one of those, like, games, like, it's a hyper focused baseball game. You just, like, you know, right now, what else am I playing? Assassin's Creed, the new one? Just like ways of deciding, but also Assassin's Creed, you always learn about history, and it's all that that's a weird game for that reason, because they always imply, like, a lot of history and a lot of, like, true facts about, like, the terrain that you kinda, like, existed in at that time. Other than that, definitely just, like, you know, watching movies I either knew or, like, classic movies that I've watched as a kid.
Maurice James Jr.:They always tell me to just, like, decompress. I just, like, talk to just, like, laugh. Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:You know
Maurice James Jr.:what I mean? So it's just, there's multiple ways of just kinda getting away from it. But I'm very much attached to work because I do work in the house too, so it's, like, it's right next to me. But I do take time to, like, super like, just, like, really chill, spend time with my daughters, Spend time with the wife, man. Just, like, just just chill, man.
Maurice James Jr.:And, like, for the first time in, I guess, forever since I've been going on, like, vacation and shit like that, I actually just, like, didn't bring my laptop and do anything. Yeah. And this was, like, just, last August. We went to, same time, so I'm saying whatever about Saint Martin and Aguila. So, I mean, yeah, like, I just did took that time to chill.
Maurice James Jr.:But, you know, this time of year right now, I'm hyper focused on, like, both these main projects from the train train show to the, to the show well, the city show. So Yeah. It's I don't know what to call you. It's either city or state or it's just it's just a it's just a it's a place, you know what I mean, that I'm creating for black people.
Rob Lee:Yeah. The the bubble thing is interesting, though. Like, when you get that reset Yeah. You know, it's just like, I'm away from this. So, you know, just more of the the the ripping and running up.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Like, you know Oh,
Maurice James Jr.:that's a lot, man. Like I so this past couple of weeks, I've been doing, like, meetups and, like, in in meetings and interviews. Not interviews, but, like, just, like, just meeting with other creative people about just, like, future plans.
Rob Lee:And a lot
Maurice James Jr.:of them, like, damn, there's
Maurice James Jr.:a lot of meetings this week. Right? So I I
Rob Lee:used to have at a point, my and my girl would tell she's like, how many interviews you got this week? Yeah. I was like, oh, I got 18 interviews this week. Yeah. She was like, and your day job.
Rob Lee:Right. And what other social things that you had? Because they're you know, when you look at the calendar, the Google calendar, those are different colors.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. No. They all it is it's funny, man. It's like, well, then you think to yourself, am I am I the operation? Right.
Maurice James Jr.:You know
Maurice James Jr.:what I mean?
Maurice James Jr.:Right. And I'm
Maurice James Jr.:saying about that today. I'm, like, damn. I'm, like, I'm, like, I'm, like, the operation. Like, on on top of the fact that I do do the also do the all the other part, which is create create the the the beautiful work.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what
Maurice James Jr.:I mean?
Maurice James Jr.:So That
Rob Lee:that's the part of it that I think when when I go through and and like I said, I I got to a stage where it's almost like, you know, these serious people. Mhmm. You know, I've I'll have this thing with some some folks that you had broke can't wait to be in a pod and like sure. It's like I've invited you 5 times. You've set me up all 5 times.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:And it's more of the you know, I'm always appreciated for anyone having any interest in what I do. Right? But, also, it's just like I am a serious person.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I have a time investment. You know, we're all creatives. Right? Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And it's just like, I put in the time and I'm ready and prepared.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:And sort of I don't get that that time back. It's almost like to use the wrestling ref back to the line. You know, you lost your title match.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah, man. Good. So listen. We can do a full world show about, how how much I I love and enjoy wrestling, man.
Maurice James Jr.:It's like, Luck. Real life convo, like, in in real time right in
Maurice James Jr.:front of
Maurice James Jr.:your face. It's it's it's an insane it's an insane business. But I I you know, I but anytime nothing that I do. Anytime I'm feeling like I need, like, any kinda, like like, laughs or whatever, I can literally go back to the Attitude Era of wrestling.
Rob Lee:Sorry. You get it.
Maurice James Jr.:And I can laugh legitimately because I'll I'll be my boys, like, because, full disclosure, my parents had a illegal cable box. And I I That's what one does. I was so we had the house in the neighborhood at any pay per view. Yeah. My boys came over, and we watching Yo.
Rob Lee:Royal Rumble's on the night, bro.
Maurice James Jr.:Watching. It's out. I remember when, Owen Hart died.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:You watched that shit. It was on yeah. I remember Hell in a Cell. I'm not gonna go yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I might have to hit you up. Like, bro, you're trying to go to Philly in April?
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, well, for WrestleMania oh, listen.
Rob Lee:I mean, it's multiple wrestling shows could've happened.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah, man. And then Philly also had ECW way back in the day.
Rob Lee:Oh, yeah. That that was, like, one of my first shows was at ECW Arena.
Maurice James Jr.:Arena. Word? Oh, yeah. Oh, you know you know you know, Topgolf. I'm there.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I'm there.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. You know. You know. Alright.
Rob Lee:So let let me hit you with this last real question, before I go to those rapid fire ones. And the last real one goes a little something like this. So pursuing that obviously isn't easy. You're doing a full time thing. And, you know, being like it's it's big business as well.
Rob Lee:And it's, always just sort of this time thing. The expectations are, you know, consistently putting something out there, having a presence, the social media component. Mhmm. But then at times that conflicts with being an artist and putting out good work and putting out interesting work.
Maurice James Jr.:Right.
Rob Lee:You know, from your vantage point, and this is more sort of the advice piece. Mhmm. How can artists, like, succeed in the world today with those considerations being there? Always be making, always be showing.
Maurice James Jr.:Well, I think that all that really comes down to, you know, the artist making a decision of, like, I'm a do what I wanna do. If I feel like, you know, posting and sharing today, I will. But, you know, I guess you gotta be present, like, to show your face that shows you are working, but I I don't think that there's any kind of rules to it, man. Like, I I I legit
Maurice James Jr.:operate in this space where, like, I don't follow, I follow my own rules.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. You know, in this space where, like, I don't follow, I follow my
Maurice James Jr.:own rules. Yeah. You know, sometimes my
Maurice James Jr.:rules do a lot with other
Maurice James Jr.:people's rules. Sure. But I'm
Rob Lee:doing shit.
Maurice James Jr.:I don't do shit that I wanna do. You ain't gonna fucking, like, give me, like, you know what I mean? It was it was it was some bullshit.
Rob Lee:That was real Philly, by the way.
Maurice James Jr.:I ain't no. Yeah. You know, and it's yeah. Because because, you know, it's just it's just funny that way, man. Like, these and these people will pull and and if they if you if they if you allow them to, they'll they'll move you around.
Maurice James Jr.:You know what I mean? They'll they'll they'll push you with some bullshit, and, like, I just I do what I I do basically what I wanna do.
Rob Lee:But I think one of the things you you said there, I was really good at all of it 100% on, but they move you around. Yeah. Because they they're the ones that's trying to play chess.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. No. They and that's that's the thing about it, man. Like, you know, I'm not talking shit about any any curator in particular. I'm just talking about, like, how the curators play their own, also, funny chess game too about where they put artists, who a lot of artists they get, what kind of shows they put on, where they put the shows on and everything.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. It's it's a very, like, kinda, like, crazy game, and I think that I just I don't have a, necessarily, like, a full on clicker team that I'm with. It's just I'm I'm Dolo all by myself.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Maurice James Jr.:And I just like but I so I have to protect myself because of that. 100%. So, yeah, I don't do yeah. Yeah. I pick and choose.
Maurice James Jr.:I dig? Yeah.
Rob Lee:Alright.
Maurice James Jr.:I ain't no asshole, though. I mean, I just
Rob Lee:I mean, I super nice, but I'm not saying no I'm not saying yes to every fucking thing. No.
Maurice James Jr.:What? You you can't. Yeah. You can't.
Rob Lee:Because it means you're saying no to yourself in some instances.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. And sometimes the the work that I produce is not gonna align with other people's work that they have in any any shows, so it just doesn't always make sense. But, you know.
Rob Lee:You got it.
Maurice James Jr.:You know. That's all I want you to do do solo shit, and then some group shows here and there.
Rob Lee:Alright. So I got 4 rapid fire questions for you. Wow. And as you remember, you know, know, you don't wanna overthink these.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Rob Lee:Alright. So, what would be the number one thing that you enjoy about being an artist?
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, man. Sharing ideas.
Rob Lee:Where does great art happen? Like, the interesting work. Where does where is that happening?
Maurice James Jr.:In the subconscious.
Rob Lee:So you you answered that the way I was hoping you would. Because some people say, man, what's the right answer to say? It's like, alright. Hold on. Chill out.
Maurice James Jr.:It happens in that funny part of the back of your mind where all all that stuff is kinda, like, sitting there that you've kinda known and forgotten.
Rob Lee:Mine's would be like it happens between shots of the Rob Lee cocktail at, 4 gs eatery.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah. Absolutely.
Rob Lee:What was the last movie you watched?
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, last movie I watched. Oh, who the fuck did I just watch? Booker Clarence.
Maurice James Jr.:Okay.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, man. Oh, no. You you have you seen it?
Rob Lee:I have not.
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, man. It's it's incredible for a lot of different reasons. Okay. And especially because it needed to be made. That's why.
Maurice James Jr.:But, yeah, book a clearance.
Rob Lee:Lastly, favorite comfort meal?
Maurice James Jr.:Oh, favorite comfort meal. Used to be cheesesteaks, and so I gave up, the I gave up meat, man. So now, my wife makes crab cakes, and the joints are delicious. So or shrimp and grits.
Rob Lee:Okay. You you mentioned 2 things that are on my top ten list. You know, shrimp and grits, crab cakes?
Maurice James Jr.:I, anywhere I go, any state, North or South, like, let let me try Shrimp and grits. I know how much what you got going on over here.
Rob Lee:Oh, this is why we're friends. I've realized this. I do the same thing.
Maurice James Jr.:Right. Yeah.
Rob Lee:I go in there snobbishly.
Maurice James Jr.:Yeah. I judge people in the shrimigrits.
Rob Lee:Well, that's
Maurice James Jr.:They're always made different, though.
Rob Lee:Look, man. We we we can have a big scene.
Maurice James Jr.:I went
Maurice James Jr.:to a spot in Baltimore that they they they do theirs on, like, a skillet type plane. It was a spot it was called I forgot where it was. It was somewhere downtown. I was staying there with my wife one time.
Rob Lee:I might know the place. I might besmirch the place a little bit. We'll we'll we'll see, we've almost got 4 separate podcasts Right. Out of this conversation.
Maurice James Jr.:Right on. Yeah.
Rob Lee:It's like, yeah, it's wrestling podcast, and it's like big shrimp and grits. You know?
Maurice James Jr.:That's that's why I talked to you, bro.
Rob Lee:Much appreciated, bro. And, as we wrap up in these final moments, 1, I wanna thank you for, again, coming on and blessing the pod. And 2, telephine folks where they can check you out, social media, website, all that good stuff. The floor is yours.
Maurice James Jr.:Alright. So website, maricejamesjunior.com. Pretty simple. Instagram is art number 4 at the black market. So if you put in art number 4, you should see my name pop up.
Maurice James Jr.:And And like I said, man, I don't know which is gonna air, but next exhibit is gonna be April 12th in Union Station. Come through. It's a really kinda, like, insightful, innovative, show about, the underground railroad and and where it's taking black people. And then moving forward, just getting ready for the summer exhibit, the largest show. So busy.
Maurice James Jr.:I'm locked in. I feel great. I don't I I feel slightly mentally exhausted, but I feel also very inspired to, like, get these ideas out because I think people need to see them. So yeah.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Maurice James Junior for again coming on The Truth in His Heart. And for Maurice, I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
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