And welcome to the Truth in His Art, your source for conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. And today, I'm thrilled to be joined by 2 incredible guests. They're returning to the podcast. First, we have a photographer and musician known for his vibrant, portrayal of Baltimore's music scene as well as his work in talent management, Micah e Wood.
Rob Lee:And alongside him, we have a senior product designer at the Atlantic specializing in journalism and visual storytelling, Christopher j Chester. Together, they bring a unique blend of creativity and collaboration to the table. Welcome you both to the podcast.
Micah E Wood:Good. Thanks for having us.
Christopher J Chester:Back at it again. It's been 2 years, May 2022.
Rob Lee:You you remember. I look. At at this point, right, 800 plus episodes in at this point, it's all a blur. I'm like, oh, I talked to them.
Micah E Wood:You know? I mean, he he's an archivist. He's all about that shit. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Micah E Wood:He's he's a factual king.
Christopher J Chester:I, perfect for his book too considering it's an archive.
Micah E Wood:You know? He's trying to get right into it.
Rob Lee:I love it. I love it. So so since since we did touch on a little bit that that previous interview, for folks who may have missed that one and should dive back into the archive, archive, right, full circle. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:Can you both briefly introduce yourselves and, you know, share sort of a little bit that one liner of who you are for the reintroduce yourselves. How about that? You know?
Christopher J Chester:Yeah. Absolutely. Christopher Chester, Baltimore native, graphic designer by day, and teaching over at the Maryland Institute College of Art. Been here my whole life, alumni over at MICA as well. Previously, I was still working at the Atlantic, and I'm still there in Bell, leading article experiences and just kinda building out the way in which people listen and interact with, our news source.
Micah E Wood:And, I'm Mikey Wood, photographer, musician, sometimes many other things like designer and music manager. I always try and find things to keep busy. Went to MICA. I teach at MICA. My name's MICA.
Micah E Wood:I'd be doing too much. And, when we were last on, I was probably also doing those things. Maybe I was just quitting my day job, over at Creative Alliance. Had a great time working there for a while being a designer and went full time freelance probably right after we recorded. So, for the last 2 years, no boss, no rules.
Rob Lee:Envious. And and thank you too for, for for bringing us back for bringing us back. So I think we talked a little bit in that previous conversation about, like, collaboration and, you know, you guys do sort of what is it? The the what is employees of the month? Yeah.
Rob Lee:So there's a collaborative thing there. You 2 boys. I, you know, I could see it. So let's let's talk a bit about sort of this more recent collaboration, this this book that you guys are working on, documenting Baltimore's music scene. And let's let's talk about that and sort of the dynamic since Chris is trying to get right to it.
Rob Lee:Let's get right to it.
Micah E Wood:Let's talk a bit about No one stands on business like my man right here. That's very true.
Rob Lee:So business, by the way.
Micah E Wood:No. Never mind. You stand on it or you stood on it?
Rob Lee:I sit on it. I sit on business. It's like, ah, it's gonna be great.
Micah E Wood:Not the camera shake with it. You know, he's like yeah. So, yeah, this book this book is called Scene, Scene. It's a collection of Baltimore band portraits I've taken over the last 8 years. So if we rewind a little, my senior thesis back in 2012, 2013 when I went to Maryland Institute, was Baltimore Band Portraits.
Micah E Wood:And then in 2016, I self released a book called Features. And then I kinda was like, well, I'll never do that again. And then I continued to make Baltimore Band Portraits just because, you know, that's what you get hired for, and I love working with musicians. And then maybe 2 years ago, I was like probably, like, right after we recorded our first podcast, I was like, oh, damn. I got a body of work here, don't I?
Micah E Wood:And I realized that, like, so many parts of Baltimore were dying or changing when it came to post COVID. And I was realizing that, sure, I don't have documents of, like, the venues and the spaces, but I have documents of all the people who have, like, lived here briefly, moved out of here, have a connection to this city. And I realized all the things that not that I did wrong with my last book, but things that I wanna get right this time Sure. Which we can talk about more in later, but I basically wanted to show the beauty of this city and its eclectic music scene. And then, from the jump, when I said I was ready to do it, I, you know, had to bring in my favorite graphic designer and best friend and main collaborator.
Micah E Wood:And, yeah. And after that was just the curse that keeps on giving.
Rob Lee:Thank you.
Christopher J Chester:It's very Yeah. Interesting just like collaboration and just talking early on and Micah thinking about, like, this body or system of work that he's making. And I myself am very interested in, like, archives and systems in that way. Being from Baltimore City, seeing the, like, reflection and change of the city over time, but also just kind of thinking about the relationship in which we build with these spaces. A lot of the places that I call home or used to call home in Baltimore City are no longer inhabited or whole neighborhoods themselves are just, like, gone.
Christopher J Chester:And even thinking about, like, the ghost of individuals who used to live or occupy these areas. And so this book in some ways is like a documentation of that. And specifically, like, looking at the window of the station north, like, midtown music scene specifically, and thinking about all the creation and creativity that came out
Micah E Wood:of that. Yeah. I think we realized that the task is not an easy one, and trying to even think that you're documenting a whole scene is impossible. You know? Like, I haven't made it down to Fedd Hill for, like, the jam band scene.
Micah E Wood:I'm not super tapped into the country folk scene. Not completely out of it, but there's just a lot of elements that can't be fully touched on. So it's kind of like who has come through the Station North type area, interacted, and the hope is that any band of note in Baltimore should be in the book or one degree from anyone in the book. So she'd be able to go in, find someone, and then find someone else. The hope is to really show the scene more than it is about I mean, I wanna gas up everyone here, of course, but it's more about showing that you think these 83 bands is a lot.
Micah E Wood:Well, there's so so many more, and there's so many more great artists too. So it's like showing that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Rob Lee:So and and thank you. And and and definitely, we're gonna go even deeper in there, specifically touching on the the bands and a little bit more on the collaborative side of things. So in in terms of sort of that initial, like, conversation, like, right now, we're we're recording this and the towards the the end of October just to set the stage transparency. Right? And I already put out my initial request for folks for the beginning of next season.
Rob Lee:So I'm having those early conversations, but I started thinking about this maybe in May, maybe even a little bit further, you know, earlier. So when initial idea of, got this body of work, let's let's put let's make it together, let's work together, you free bro? What was that what was that initial conversation like?
Micah E Wood:I've seen Chris's work evolve a lot over the last decade or more of friendship and also have seen how much he's interested and works in print design constantly. He's always studying book design and working that space, but hasn't designed a book. And so it seemed like an opportunity. So early on, I was like, you wanna do this together? Like, you want do you want the challenge of laying out this book?
Micah E Wood:Do you want the challenge of figuring out all the intricate design decisions that are needed? And I think also pitching him on how this one differs in the last book is besides it the last book was mostly Baltimore bands, but it was also, like, other bands I had photographed. And I think it was much more like I photograph people of note. And now it's much more like this is about Baltimore, and it happens to be my photos, but, you know, I gotta do right by the work, but most of all, I gotta do right by the people. And so the metadata aspect, which we can talk more about, but is basically, like, making sure we say who's in the band at that time of that photo, what neighborhood that photo was taken in, when the photo was taken, and then the name of the band.
Micah E Wood:Genre changes. Bands break up. Websites go defunct. But will what will always be true is who is currently in that photo and who is in the band at the time of this photo? Because a lot of the bands have already changed band members since I took the photo.
Micah E Wood:You know what I mean? Some of the bands have broken up. And so if they break up and delete their socials and move on to other projects, how do you go, oh, that guy seems familiar. Is he in other bands 10 years from now? You look up their name, you find their other projects, which is something the last book was missing.
Micah E Wood:So I think he was really interested in this, like, archival aspect, and I kinda hooked him in with that and then made him do a lot of work.
Rob Lee:Was there for for you, Christopher, was there a maybe a, a a a book for, like, in terms of inspiration or some of those design decisions and your your background with The Atlantic and all? What what how does that play a role in sort of the the shaping of of the book ultimately?
Christopher J Chester:I think for me, photojournalism has always been a big interest of mine. You know, thinking about the narrative that comes with a location or what is going on in the Stead area. Thinking about war photography even to some degree and kind of capturing the essence of that, looking at humanity of it all, but also understanding the story that is happening there as well. In terms of some, like, initial books that kind of stuck out to me when I was thinking about this, I was kinda going back to Charlotte in in some ways, thinking about some of the wonder of what do you discover when you are not looking for certain things. So thinking about I Spy in that kind of way, you know, there's a lot of interesting aspects of Baltimore that are viewed in his book that you wouldn't realize what neighborhood it's in or maybe you have passed it or on your walk or drive that kinda become so more ceremonious
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Christopher J Chester:And really take on a painterly element or a very comforting light, that can just seem like another day on your commute home or, like, stuck in traffic somewhere. And there is a beauty in kind of slowing down that comes with this book and really picking up the moments in time or even thinking about where you were in Baltimore at the time in which this picture was taken. And so I think a lot about memory in that way in this city, especially, in the design process and even my own memory of, like, bands, places, maybe shows I went to that featured some of the bands in in this book. And that's played a very strong role in this, like, process element.
Micah E Wood:It's it's a it's
Rob Lee:a really good thing. I wanna, you know, kinda, like, dive in a little bit further on that that piece as as far as, like, memory. Right? Without going too deep because, you know, I like to like to, you know, tease it a little bit. For both of you.
Rob Lee:Is there a particular, like, image in there in the book that really you're like, I remember this. This also happened this night. These other details happened this night because it's funny, like that whole thing of, you know, a picture is a 1000 words and all that different stuff. I always like to look at what's around the background, what was happening during this time. Like, you know, this is an archive, I guess.
Rob Lee:Some people say that. I don't know. And but I think you can tell in certain parts in an interview when it was done, what was happening in the background without it actually being recorded in the audio. What was sort of happening in the scene? What was happening in Baltimore?
Rob Lee:What's happening in the world? So for for the 2 of you, is there, like, an image that really comes top of mind that, like, that was a really cool night, or that's that time when I do pour that drink on that person or what have you when you're you're capturing, like, these these images?
Christopher J Chester:They are for me I would say one of the earlier photos in the book is of Abu Ali from 2016. And I think about the Calonne dance parties that they were throwing and specifically, like, how attached he was to the presence of the work they were putting in at the crown at the time for that, and then thinking about how there were, like, lines around the block and people had to wait to get in, but also just how much of a ceremonious experience it was to to have that. And I think about their contributions a lot in regards to that. Yeah.
Micah E Wood:I'll answer that just with, like I don't know. It's very different for me since I I also have a photographic memory. So, what's kind of great about releasing photos is you're releasing your memory from having to remember all these intricate details. Like, one time, I've lost all my photos on a memory card, and it was just from one shoot, but I it was such an amateur move. And those images, like, sat with me for weeks.
Micah E Wood:To get them out of my head were so hard because a photo simply can't exist twice.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Micah E Wood:You can try recreating it, but then the face, the lighting, everything can change. Everything can be a little different. Right? And, so much of the discovery of these, I would say, like, 75% of the photos in the book come from, going around with the band and seeing what strikes interest for them. I love collaborating.
Micah E Wood:So a lot of it's like, oh, what do you think about over there? What do you think about this? Like and I try I love trying to pitch them on what I think the photo will look like. And sometimes they're like, I don't know if that'll be it. Yeah.
Micah E Wood:And I'll be like, that's cool. And if I'm really feeling it, I'll be like, can we just try it once? And if you hate it, no one needs to know. And usually, it'll work out, and I love that. But I think of 2 photos in particular, to your question.
Micah E Wood:One is there's a photo of natural velvet that is on green. And, I was living with the singer of natural velvet, Crin Osterman, during the pandemic. And her and her now husband and me and my now wife were all living together. And so her and I were in the COVID bubble. This is, like, January 2021, you know, second I mean, the biggest spike really that had happened at that time, and they needed press photos to promote a remix EP.
Micah E Wood:So the band had to be 6 feet apart, and we're outside because we don't really understand the outside inside of it all yet. And so Corinne's in her mom's wedding dress or, like, a vintage wedding dress. I forget which one it is. And is sitting on a tennis court by our house. So we, like, walked there, scouted a few days before we were allowed to be around each other.
Micah E Wood:And so I'm, like, 20 feet from this photo being taken. She's 6 feet from all of her band members, and it's a composition I never would have created, because I like bringing people close and seeing the interaction of people. And so luckily, the band knows each other and works so well together that they were able to all strike, you know, balanced poses even while being apart. But the distance literally would I mean, that photo just simply wouldn't happen if the pandemic didn't happen. It would be something I'm sure I would have other photos of them, but I love this photo so much, and it truly, like, it pushed me creatively to think about this, like, social distancing aspect.
Micah E Wood:And, yeah, it hits.
Rob Lee:That's good. That's good. And, you know, I think having sort of that year, that that context in there, someone is viewing. That's like, oh, right. COVID.
Rob Lee:That's what yo. He he made that happy, worked around it.
Micah E Wood:He was he was shocked how many photos were from 2020.
Christopher J Chester:Yeah. Especially in building out the archive. I was like, woah. When was that? Like, I was trying to place myself even in thinking about what I was doing during that time.
Christopher J Chester:And there's another photo, the Dial Live in his band, from, like, early March, and it's one of the last shows that was probably played in Baltimore, but I also used the photo that Micah took to make their show flyer as well. And so I always think about, like, March 9, 2020 was when that show went down, which was probably the last show in the city that week. 100%. And, yeah, I shot those photos in January. And what's so funny about you mentioning is because, like, January 2020, I went
Micah E Wood:to this shoot so sick. Like, so, like, one of the sickest I've ever been in my life. And I hit everyone up. I was like, should I come to this? Like, this is at this point we think and I don't know that it was COVID, but at this point, we we we, like, are just hearing about it, like, being in China, and we're not really hearing much else about it.
Micah E Wood:Right? And I text the whole band. I was like, should I show up? They're like, we ain't rescheduling this. Like, because they got, like, 6 members from all different places.
Micah E Wood:And, so I showed up to the shoot. Like, I don't think anyone got sick from it, luckily, but I was just, like, I was near falling over. I, like, truly didn't think I would get a good photo, but collaboration. I had Grin there, who I just mentioned. She sometimes helps me set style.
Micah E Wood:She was there helping run, you know, kinda gassing people up, telling them their poses. Al Rodgers junior was styling it. So really, all I had to do was take a photo. You know what I mean? And so, like, by having this trustworthy crew, I'm, like, near falling over.
Micah E Wood:Like, I've never been so cross faded in my life, and I love these photos. And they turned out because of trust, collaboration, and, and the power of friendship.
Rob Lee:That's that's a good segue, but I at least wanna comment on this before moving into that next question, which is a good segue. I feel like that's your your Jordan game, Micah. Your Jordan, like, flu game. It's just like drag me out. I'm so sick, but I got those shots.
Micah E Wood:Listen. Yes. I won't miss. So this
Rob Lee:is the segue. Right? So, you know, I I I I've done this. I've done podcasting for maybe 16 years in in February. And 10 of those years Okay.
Rob Lee:Flex. A little bit. 10 of those years, I I had a had a co host, and we, you know, we're friends, and that's not the case anymore. And so I'm always curious, and it was a collaborative thing. And it got to a point where we were on maybe different sides of the collaborative nature of doing a creative project together.
Rob Lee:So in the midst of building, you know, building this book and working together in this this way in this most recent, like, time, how how does that work? Because obviously, there's respect. Obviously, there's admiration for one's work. But, you know, there are moments when I'm a creative. I know what I'm doing.
Rob Lee:And it's like, how dare you remove that picture? Or I don't know if I've jammed with this this layout or this decision. How does that work when you're collaborating with a friend on a ultimately a creative output? Like, that's that's the segue right there. Oh.
Rob Lee:Okay.
Micah E Wood:Start that or you want me to?
Christopher J Chester:I can start that. So Mike and I have been friends for a decade now, and we've seen each other at our highs, at our lows, creatively. We kind of align in at a lot of different areas. I think we both our our strong suit is that we both understand our strengths. I know that he is a photographer first and foremost.
Christopher J Chester:He knows that I'm a designer, and we have always done really well to know when to stay in line, if you will. And so I never really questioned the images about that he chooses, and I also want to compliment how he's choosing images. And so I often think about in this book, for example, early in the layout process and thinking about the grid structure and all the, like, system stuff of the book, thinking about what cameras he's shooting with, the formats that he's shooting with, thinking about how do we build the grid around the photos that are taking and not just kind of cropping or stylistically placing images in a way that I feel might be aesthetically pleasing. Like, I wanna call back to the decisions that he's making through his camera. Mhmm.
Christopher J Chester:And then also taking some of that editorial voice that's in the book and not making it too loud. The focus itself is the imagery. And so I often try to ask them for advice, you know, show things as they work in progress, try not to make ultimatums, come with reasoning with why I am making the decisions that are being met at a design level. I also know that, like, he can be real with me when it comes to feedback, critique, and, like, I don't know if I'm fucking up. He's gonna let me know, and I appreciate that.
Christopher J Chester:I think I've only gotten good as a designer over the years with people being honest with, and I hope, you know, that honesty continues in our friendship.
Micah E Wood:That's bars.
Rob Lee:It's great.
Micah E Wood:Yeah. So I think with us with collaboration, like, sure, this is our first time working on, like, a massive project like this, but, like, it's funny. When you go to his website, I get to scroll through and see, like, I don't know, like, 75% of it is featured in my photos. It's true. Like and here's the thing.
Micah E Wood:My fun fact is that Chris has access to my Dropbox. That's intimate. He has access to my Dropbox folder of every sent out band portrait I've taken. So whenever I send out a band portrait folder of photos to a client, I put them in the same one folder. That folder, Chris has access to.
Micah E Wood:So if he gets a gig making a poster for someone, he has the open trust to grab whatever he wants out of those folders and use it however he pleases. And that didn't, like, happen overnight. It's like you don't share your calendar with someone on day 1. We also have shared calendars, because we used to live together, and we just never stopped sharing them. And so sometimes we'll hit each other up and be like, can you do this by then?
Micah E Wood:I see these things on your calendar. Any of this real? And then Chris, like, oh, no. That was ambitious. I ain't doing that.
Micah E Wood:You know what I mean? And so, like, I think a lot of it is, like, when you get to this level of collaboration, the the door the metaphorical door on the bathroom has to be open. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta show all the scars, all the ugly shit, and, you know, a lot I think the only real snafus we've had in the process is just, like, realizing little things over the years in our workflow and our different, like, pacings Yeah. And things that are easy to, like, ignore in the small scale.
Micah E Wood:And so, like, to your point about podcasting, like, when you're building, like, a bigger project together, you start having to really address those, like, whether it's, like, different time structure or different communication structure, or one of us going super hard at one moment and the other one going super hard at a different moment and not feeling like our timelines are lining up. Mhmm. And it does through conversation, hard conversations, you click back in.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Micah E Wood:And luckily, all of that, I think now we understand even more for future projects how our flow works and that I'm a sets set dates, timelines, and planner. And he's I he cooks best when he has deadlines, timelines, and plans. So since I'm the planner, instead of just planning and hoping, it's a lot of like, okay. Are you comfortable with me driving?
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Micah E Wood:And if you are, then here's how where I want us to drive to, and then he decides what route we take, what car we're driving. You know what I mean? So it's like a lot of, like, bouncing back and forth and realizing where our skills are. And I think what's also said Analogy. Yeah.
Micah E Wood:I love making up analogies. And I think, also it helps that he's a designer that's great at photography, and I'm a photographer that is fine at graphic design. Okay. Good. So, like, we understand each other in that sense, and we're able to be, like, using jargon.
Micah E Wood:Right? Like, we can be, like, talking about grid structure and understanding, like, different kerning elements, and I can't do it like him. But when he talks about it, I'm like, yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:That those are words I know. Yeah. I think I think that's I think that's a good point. And, you know, I think when we get to these these stages, you almost know, like, may you know, you guys have been friends for a long time, but you have folks who, you know, I I look at this, I do these interviews, and it's collaborative. Right?
Rob Lee:It's I've had some times where it's just like, I'm I'm going here's the questions. You go with these questions, no response. Then the day of, yeah, so I don't really like these questions. Alright. You could cool.
Rob Lee:So you don't answer your email. I'm just start doing the I'm looking at these red these creative red flags or these collaborative red flags, but then there is this sort of other notion of just sometimes it's just like one style is different than than my style. So I go into it. You guys came in with the right energy, and it's just like, alright. Let me balance and, like, level my energy at a at a place that it's not like highs and lows.
Rob Lee:It just drowns out. I'm like, yeah. So, Mica, Chris, and then there's there's nothing there. There's no balance, so you're almost trying to, like, level it out. I look at that in almost any collaboration.
Rob Lee:There are times where I'll talk with someone, and they want to do some of the extra steps and not understanding sort of maybe this is maybe why I go about the interviews the way that I do as far as
Micah E Wood:Yeah.
Rob Lee:Have a lot of, hey, let's talk 4 or 5 times before we actually do the interview. And sometimes that does fit, but I just find like there's some trepidation and you can almost tell early on that, I don't know if this is going to work for what we're both intending to get out of the conversation. And it's almost like, the and I like the the sort of example of Dropbox and calendar access. It's like there's walls around this conversation. Maybe the person isn't comfortable talking about their work, talking about their art, or maybe I'm not the the interviewer, that my my way of doing interviews doesn't really fit.
Rob Lee:So you I can tell that sometimes really early on, and I've gotten a lot better, you know, as I've gone into the whole, like, podcast realm and doing more and more different types of collaboration with different types of people, different personalities, than maybe 2 years ago or even 5 years ago when this podcast started. And I would come out of the conversations early on, especially thinking, like, I suck. I don't know what I'm doing. And the the last piece I'll say on it, the the sort of shorthand, knowing, like, I don't know photography, you know, design, and sort of there's that overlap. My background was in marketing, you know, before I started doing this.
Rob Lee:So when I talk to marketing people, and I talk to, like, social media and communication people, they're like, why aren't you just doing this? Because you seem to know it. I was like, I'm just one person, sort of thing. Right?
Christopher J Chester:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:But it is a good shorthand to be able to articulate the ideas and maybe even in a to this extent, do the cross training, if you will. Like, this is what I'm looking for. Can you help us get there? And, like, why does this not make sense? Why does this make sense?
Micah E Wood:I mean, both of us now are in academia. You know, we're both very much aware that, like, the sharing of knowledge helps all of us. Right? And so, like, yeah, like, you want someone that can, you know, a market as as good as you, then you uplift someone. You teach them your style, and you hope they stick around.
Micah E Wood:You know? And if they don't, then you've made someone's life better. And you go on from there. You know, I think often about, one of my favorite, musician facts is that, years ago, when I was, like, 19, I went to see Bob Dylan live. Whatever.
Micah E Wood:He sounds, like, wild now. And, I I saw him playing the piano. I was like, doesn't he play guitar? And my friend was like, oh, yes. Since his, like, I think he had a stroke or something.
Micah E Wood:Like since his stroke, he, for a while, couldn't play guitar. Now he can again. Oh. But he took over the, like, organ piano part because he says he can find a better guitar player than him, but he can't find anyone that plays organ better than him. Nice.
Micah E Wood:And I'm like, bro, come on. Like, there like, I I think it's good to be confident, but at the end of the day, like, there's always gonna be people that do better at, like, a thing than you, but no one can do what you do better than you. You know what I mean? Like, he wrote those songs. So can someone play them better than him?
Micah E Wood:Probably. Can someone write it better than him? Doesn't matter. He wrote them. Right.
Micah E Wood:You know? And they're great and successful. So it's like, I think we start having to put, ego can look in a lot of different ways. Right? Like, ego, hot headed.
Micah E Wood:Right? And then ego that comes from imposter syndrome. Right? And both of us have spent years trying to undo imposter syndrome, but at the end of the day, it's a part of us. Right?
Micah E Wood:It drives us. It motivates us. It makes us curious. And if we let our imposter syndrome be too loud, we don't collaborate. True.
Micah E Wood:And you don't have to collaborate. Right? No one has to. You can do everything yourself. You'll be tired, but you can.
Micah E Wood:But for me, I find that if I'm gonna make a book where I'm photographing people the way they want to be seen, I got to talk to them about how they wanna be seen. Yep. And I have to make them comfortable. They're not they're not models. Well, I mean, some of them do model.
Micah E Wood:Do you know what I mean? They're musicians. They are only gonna be comfortable looking in the photo if they're comfortable about the photo.
Rob Lee:1000%. Same same thing here when there there are a few episodes over the 800 plus that I've taken down, because, you know, the the guest will reach out and it's like, yo, I sound terrible in here. He's making me I was confident then, and this is not like a week later. This is like 6 months later. Like, I just I ghosted you because, you know, when I do the rollout or have you of, like, the episodes up.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I'm sorry I ghosted you. I kinda just slid there. I was a little, like, cautious about how I came off. I'm like, oh, no.
Rob Lee:No. We can take it down. Let's not whatever you feel most comfortable with. Yeah. Let's circle back around it because, you know, it's it's curated.
Rob Lee:You know, it's like, hey, let's I like your work. Let's let's talk about it if you're comfortable with talking about it. But comfort is key and, again, you know, that's the purpose of really like checking in with the person the entire time to make sure everything is good and it's not about I gotta get this many episodes or I talk to this great guest or what have you or wrote these questions. It's more so like is there something that's coming out of this? Does the person feel comfortable?
Rob Lee:Do do I feel like I've learned something? Am I still curious? And all of that different stuff. Once those are checked, everything else is gravy. Sausage I
Micah E Wood:feel like gravy. I feel listen. I'm a vegetarian, veggie gravy. So I feel like the reason we always have this synergy when the 3 of us are talking is, like, Chris treats his design very similar as I treat my photo as you treat this. It's like, I love that this podcast talks to, very established people in the art world and people that are art curious and people that are surrounding the art world in their own art form.
Micah E Wood:And I think, like, it's so important, and I feel this way. We talk about this about free work too. Like, if you do a favor for a friend, you can't phone it in. Your name's on that. Yeah.
Micah E Wood:Not only is your name on that, but, like, you agreed to doing it. That's on you, bro. Like, so the point is, like, we we try and treat everything whether he's doing something huge at the Atlantic or he's doing something for a band that has one song that is trying to play their first show, and they I mean, they hired him. Right? Like, he treats them the same, puts the same amount of energy into it, like, it's his Super Bowl, and I treat my photos the same.
Micah E Wood:Sometimes it's like a person that's like, hey. I just would really love to be photographed like a band. You know what I mean? They wanna feel that energy, and I'm like, cool. And I'm not gonna treat it like some kid playtime.
Micah E Wood:Like, I'm gonna give them the full the full fantasy, the full experience. And I think that if you treat it all with the same respect of collaboration, then it's like I don't know. It's very humbling in a good way. I have thoughts on that.
Christopher J Chester:Yeah. That, level of investment in collaboration, whether it's with Micah, with another person that wants some work or, like, a client, you're also in it for yourself. You know? You're thinking about, do people see me in this work if my name is attached to it? And there's a beautiful feeling when somebody goes, oh, I know you did that poster, or I know you did that.
Christopher J Chester:I know
Micah E Wood:you did that. And I didn't, like,
Christopher J Chester:I didn't even see you post about it, or I didn't even see, like, you had, like, shared it. You weren't even tagged. Like, I mispronounced it. Which is is cool. It's a good feeling because it's like, one, people can just identify that I did
Micah E Wood:something off of just
Christopher J Chester:the way that it's structured and the
Micah E Wood:way that it looks.
Christopher J Chester:But, also, like, it may looks. But, also, like, it makes me feel good because I'm giving them the same
Micah E Wood:level of quality work that people can see
Christopher J Chester:in other work that I've already done. Yeah. And so there's a beauty in that. Wanting to continue that. I don't think there's a kind of, a watering down of the work in which you have to do or which the work you wanna collaborate with anybody.
Christopher J Chester:Sometimes we may take on jobs that we might not necessarily wanna do. Right? But sometimes you come out of that with a new perspective, a new understanding, think about yourself, a new perspective about your own process, and there's always growth when growth doesn't seem present. Yes. That's a good point.
Rob Lee:So I got I got 2 things I wanna, close out. I got one last real question, and I got a couple rapid fire questions. So, the the last real question, it makes sense to go back into the book, very intentionally with this sort of last question, you know, as Mica touched on, massive project, right? So I saw a few numbers, 300 plus pages, 80 plus bands. Talk a bit about sort of the, you know, amount of work once you've you've you've gotten the, what, 8 years of sort of, like, documented sort of photos and all of that there.
Rob Lee:Talk about sort of the timing in building everything out as we get closer and closer to the the release. And, you know, and sort of the other thing, I guess, is in selecting sort of maybe the the images, like, okay, maybe we do more than this number. Maybe we should cover more bands, sort of the trimming down the final cutting, if you will. I know that's a heavier weightier question, but, that's what I wanna kinda close out on there.
Micah E Wood:Yeah. Chris and I both work well with rules, right, and parameters. Mhmm. And so I think for me, at least, I knew the last book was in alphabetical order. I knew I want to do that again.
Micah E Wood:Alphabetical order sets a very archival, very, like, structured way, and it also kind of, like, fucks with you in a cool way, which is, like, that you you have to design and lay out a photo book that flows well with the photos you've already taken, but in alphabetical order. So it's not always about the best band I mean, the best photo. It's about the best photo of that band that also flows into the next page. Also, other parameters, like each band either has 1 spread or 2 spreads. Nevermore.
Micah E Wood:Yeah. So there's no and the hierarchy of how many spreads you get isn't based on fame. You know? Dan Deacon's in the book. He's got one spread.
Micah E Wood:Just because there's one photo that really cements it, and you don't really need the the other photos we're just taking away from the power of the one photo. So it's not there's no, fanfare in that way. Right? So those parameters kinda help shape it. And then, like, on a more technical level, I laid out the book in an early draft, then Chris saw it.
Micah E Wood:And you can kinda talk about, like, when you saw mine, how that helped you structure it. So Yeah. So, like, early on, we
Christopher J Chester:had the first draft. There was a lot of, like, you know, ideas, thinking about layout, thinking about the sequencing of images where text was being placed, the use of color, black and white. I kinda come in with, like, uniformity, thinking about how do we take this season. Sticking. Yeah.
Christopher J Chester:No. Yeah. And establishing consistency. It's almost like when you, are planning your first day back to school fit. You know?
Christopher J Chester:There's a a system to what shoes you're putting with those pants, what the top's gonna be, like, how you selling your hair. Like, thinking about it in that same way, are you getting a fit off? Are we getting a fit off in this book? Same kind of idea in that way. But, you know, I don't wanna tell Micah what photos not to use.
Christopher J Chester:I may tell him to switch the order up. And so there are a lot of times in planning out the layout, like, where I just counted every variation of a layout he did in the first draft, counted them up, counted up how many times they were used, ranked them. Then I was like, alright. You clearly like these 5. Right?
Christopher J Chester:And then we've got, like, 31 offs. So let's think about which of these one offs can become, like, 4 templates for images. Like, what are the 4 what are the 5 layouts that we can use to represent the artists in here? And then the supporting layouts, what are the other, like, 10 that we can use that? So we end up coming from, like, I don't know, 30, 40 layouts down to a core, like, 15.
Rob Lee:Oh, wow.
Micah E Wood:And I'll say that, like, in a non serious sense, that really pissed me off. Right? Like, I'm sitting there, and I'm like, no, but I did it. It's here. You know?
Micah E Wood:And then I think about it and I'm like, consistency makes sense. And so then I'm like, how about instead of like reveling in this feeling of like, Oh, I gotta do this again. I, like, go in and go, okay. I get to do this again. So, like, what does it look like if I reach those parameters?
Micah E Wood:And I know when there was 1 or 2 cases where, like, I tried alternate spreads, and I was like, this ain't it. But I would say 90% of the spreads that I had to retool are way, way, way, way better because of it. And then that 10%, I was just like, can we add can we please add, like, 1 or 2 little more grids, please? You know, like, I beg and I grovel. No.
Micah E Wood:No. So I go back to them, and I'm like, these just won't work another way. And we, like, add one more in there, one more, like, template layout kinda thing, and then I end up making that happen a few more times so that it's not soloed as in, like, one instant of it. So it's like meeting in the middle in that way actually created, I mean, so much better work. I mean, I've relayed out this book, like, 900 times over the last 2 years, and it's, like, driving me nuts.
Micah E Wood:And then I look at it. I'm like, alright, but it's it. I I hear you.
Rob Lee:That's good. Thank you. That, that that definitely answers, like, 2 questions that I had there. I was able to get it into 1, so that's that's really good. Hey, guys.
Rob Lee:Rob Lee here chiming in the middle of the podcast, and we'll be right back to that in a moment, but I wanted to remind you that if you're following me on Instagram, and I hope you are the Truth in His Heart, make sure that you explore the links, link in bio. I know that people always talk about follow me, link in bio, and all of that, but there are some valuable stuff in there such as a survey for my newsletter. You've probably received the newsletter, and if not, definitely sign up for it. There's some interesting stuff there. We have profiles of certain guests.
Rob Lee:We have sort of, you know, curated episodes because we're we're we're around 800 right now, and, it's a lot to go through. And all of them won't be available on every platform all the time, so being able to revisit and go back there, to check out those episodes is important. So definitely check out the survey. Let us know what you think of the newsletter and what you would like to have included in there, and, continue to make this podcast, yours as as well as mine's. And, yeah, back to the podcast, Rapid Fire.
Rob Lee:Here's the first one, and I'll give my answer. It's not sexy, but it's the answer. For me, it's pistachios. For you, the question is, what's a food or snack that you can't resist no matter what time of the day? Like, if I got shell pistachios anywhere in a crib, I get 2 £5 sacks per week.
Rob Lee:I get loose.
Christopher J Chester:Oh, I feel like I know what our joint answer could be.
Micah E Wood:Well, first, I would go absolutely nuts. No pun intended. If there was a bag of pistachios sitting out. That being said, I don't keep them in the house because I go absolutely nuts for them, and I have no self control. You answer it.
Christopher J Chester:Peanut M and M's.
Micah E Wood:Oh, yeah.
Christopher J Chester:That's true. Easy. Come on, bro.
Micah E Wood:You put a container of Costco peanut M and M's, and we are both fucked up. Barrel. Like like, that bin would be finished, which is why I don't buy, Costco P and M's. Just put
Christopher J Chester:on a a 24 movie and just leave, like, a bucket of peanut M and M's.
Micah E Wood:That's a bunch
Christopher J Chester:of crap.
Micah E Wood:We go to the movies. They're like, oh, P and M's are, like, $37 for 4 M and M's, and I'm like, bet. Yeah. That's good. Look.
Micah E Wood:There there was I had this conversation. This is how I knew
Rob Lee:I was gonna be friends with this dude. I had this conversation with, this this musician, Jimmy Watkins. We were in DC walking around, and we were all, like, engaging in sort of, like, the fat guy story snacks that we're into. And I was like, yo, look. This is what I do.
Rob Lee:I get all my favorite M and M's. I get peanut, I get almond, and I get peanut butter. I make that into a trail mix. He's like, yo, that's the next level.
Micah E Wood:So I like calling that a trail mix. You on the trail would be cross faded if you had that. True. You're, like, on you're, like, on mile 2, and you're, like, let me just have a bite of my trail mix. And it's just 3 types of M and M's.
Micah E Wood:They got protein, though. They got protein and butter and a lot of and almonds and peanuts. That's protein. You you you walk around yeah. You walk around someone with a nut allergy.
Micah E Wood:They are done. It's over. Your bread is pistachio, almonds, peanut, and peanut butter. Like, they can't even be around you. You are just emanating allergens.
Christopher J Chester:Can't let my man on a plane. Yeah.
Micah E Wood:Yeah. I can't let Rob on a plane.
Rob Lee:Typoid Mario. Typhoid. Very true. So here's the here's the last one I got for you. So when you're you're you're prepping whatever, let's say, the work is for a given day, right, whether it's a shoe, whether it's working on a design project, what have you, is there, like, sort of any quirks, any rituals that you get into that you that you get engaged in?
Rob Lee:I'm in my studio space, so I'm looking at the remnants of several incense and candles that I just have in here. I don't know. Someone mentioned it to me, and now I just have it in here getting rid of the maybe the funk, but also the negative spirits in here of, you're not good at what you do, and that's part of the process. It is the peanuts, the pistachios and the peanuts. A lot of fiber nose.
Rob Lee:So for you, are there any quirks or any rituals you engage in before, going into a creative pursuit?
Christopher J Chester:Usually a tea or coffee I have to start out with before I dive into any form of work. Usually a comforted album of some sort. I always have to put on a fit even if I'm not leaving the house. I can't do work in, like, pajamas or, like, cozy clothes. And if I'm really locking in on some work, I have to do it from my office.
Christopher J Chester:No couch. Like, I have to really be in the work mindset. And these are all the little things I developed over like the pandemic, but thinking about how I can be so easily distraction by comfort. And if I have, like, the comforts and if I'm not working with Micah and I'm just by myself, some of these comforts will just take over. So I have to feel like I'm going to work in order to
Micah E Wood:leave Final Fantasy too close to Chris?
Christopher J Chester:Done. 7 days later. Oh, man. Yeah. The PS 5 does talk to me like, the green goblin.
Micah E Wood:Like, come back to me.
Rob Lee:It keeps calling.
Micah E Wood:Controller is charged. Great. For me yeah. I you know, that's really funny. I think the pandemic really teaches you, like, yeah, like, what your bare necessities are and, like, how you can even when before you even leave the house, what you need to, like, get up and get ready.
Micah E Wood:For me, I gotta make a matcha. The process of making a matcha, the whisking it, it's very relaxing. Wakes me up a little bit both in the process and in the drinking it. And then I can kinda work from anywhere. Usually, it's like the couch is my big dog next to me or at my desk if I'm, like, scanning film and, like, really locked in, like, you know, Chris is mentioning.
Micah E Wood:But, yeah, I I also Chris and I, you know, have our radio show employees of the month, but we do monthly. So, like, even before this, and now I just have a reason for my madness, but I listen to, like, 6 to 8 new records a week. So I'll, like, load up all those records on Friday, and then during the work week, I'll play a record. Or in my most feral is me with Lightroom open, editing hundreds of photos while I have, like, a TV show playing in the background. Maybe I forgot I have music playing on my laptop, like, dogs barking like crazy, and I'm just honed in.
Micah E Wood:I'm just honed in. Nothing can stop me.
Rob Lee:Love it. And thank you. Thank you both. So that's kinda it for the podcast. There are 2 things I wanna do as we close out here.
Rob Lee:1, on in these final moments. 1, I wanna thank both of you for coming back on. This was great, a success, some might say, and I'll say. And, and 2, I wanna invite and encourage the 2 of
Micah E Wood:you to
Rob Lee:shamelessly plug social media
Micah E Wood:website and
Rob Lee:sort of the, any any dates around around the book because, we're we're wrapping up here. So the floor is yours.
Christopher J Chester:Yeah. You can find me at Christopher j Chester on Instagram, Christopher j Chester dot com, if you wanna check out the graphic design work. You can listen to employees of the month monthly on gutsyradio.org if you wanna hear more of us yapping, but also just hear some of our musical interest as we dive into a new playlist. And, yeah, Mike, I'll throw it to you.
Micah E Wood:Cool. Yeah. You can find me, Mike E Wood on Instagram, Mike E Wood on Apple Music, Spotify, mikeywood.com. It's also my email. Just I don't know.
Micah E Wood:You could find me. Consistency. You know? Consistency. Yeah.
Micah E Wood:And we have this book, scene, scene, coming out, December, I wanna say, like, 12, 14th. We said 12th, but then we're actually doing a release event on 14th. So who knows? You could probably get a copy a couple days before, but let's say December 14th. We'll be at Greedy Reads.
Micah E Wood:Terry Henderson is moderating. I think it's at, like, 6 PM, I wanna say. I might be making that up, but I feel good about it. And yeah. And then I think we're doing a little after party thing at Baltimore Photo Space, but that's still in the work.
Micah E Wood:And then there'll be a little gallery on December 18th at, Metro Gallery. Figured we'd do some photos from the book shown in a gallery venue. Yep. You know? And then yeah.
Micah E Wood:And the only other thing on employees of the month is that, yeah, it's fully free. And, if you go to Mixcloud and you search, Gutsy Radio, there's a whole playlist of all 42 episodes we've done so far. It's yapping. It's music. It's pointless.
Micah E Wood:It's very informative.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I'm gonna again thank Micah e Wood and Christopher j Chester for coming on to the podcast and telling us a bit about their collaboration scene, scene and what's coming soon. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
