Stevan Smith: Bridging Connections as a Black Media Professional in Content Creation

Rob Lee: And welcome to The Truth in This Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for joining us for conversations at the intersection of arts, culture and community. And today, today we have a good one. I mean, all of them are good, but this one, this is this one takes the cake. Today, I have the privilege of being able to engage in a conversation with a seasoned public media professional whose journey spans over 25 years. You know, originally hailing from Brooklyn, New York, my guest has made a name for himself in jazz radio from being a host at WEAA FM at Morgan State University to chief content officer at the renowned WBGO. He has a rich background in public media. Please welcome Stevan Vegas Smith. Welcome to the podcast.
Stevan Smith: Man, thank you for having me, man. Happy to be here. You know, long day at work. It's cool to sit down and just chat instead of, you know, work things, you know.

Rob Lee: I got a comment on the visuals in the background. You look like you're in like a beach setting and the coldness and it's like cold temperatures these days. So, yeah, I like it. I like it.

Stevan Smith: Not not at all, man. It was snowing today. I'm in New Jersey. It's just my wife just knows how to make rooms have different moods. So I figured, like, you know what, I'm going to sit here in the calm room.

Rob Lee: You know, it's like being inside of a Mai Tai or something. I'm not sure it's right. So to kick things off, is I think that there's more energy and more sort of value in, you know, having the guests introduce themselves. Obviously, you know, I have my bullet points and how I did the introduction and all, but I think it's much more in how having you introduce yourself. And I got some sub questions in there, but at least want to start off there.

Stevan Smith: Okay, well, my name is Stevan Ann Smith. I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, Bedford-Stuyvesant section, old Brooklyn, not that new stuff. Not that new stuff, I'm old Brooklyn. I attended Boys and Girls High School in Bedford-Stuyvesant on Fulton Street during the era of Mr. Mickens, who was, if you heard of Joe Clark from Lean on Me, he was like the Dollar General version of him. But nah, but he, you know, he straightened that school out. I just happened to go there when he got there. And a lot of what he did helped me. In 1995, I graduated and attended Morgan State University in Baltimore, Maryland, and was interesting for this interview that some people may not know just by like, you know, reading my bio or whatever is the fact that I went to Morgan State on a business scholarship that I had no idea I was going to win. You know, I shot my shot, but I'm, you know, I'm like, am I going to win that? To attend the Earl Graves School of Business with a marketing major. And, you know, about a year into it, I kind of was like, I love music. Why? I like business. I see myself in it. But I got to do what I love. So I switched to radio broadcasting and graduated from there in 2000. So, you know, it's been it's been a journey, man. And, you know, I have siblings, two sisters and an older brother. We all are college educated, which wasn't a thing in my family and until we did it. So, yeah, man, it's been it's been a journey so far. But y'all find out.

Rob Lee: Yeah, and I got some bullet points, but I definitely got a comment on that. So let's let's get this straight. So I'm here in Earl Graves School. Same. OK, OK. You know, I came in like three years after after you graduated. OK, you know, I was I went to City College in Baltimore. So, you know, it's just right down the street. And I was like, yeah, I'm a still rap here. And I used to only hang out with the New Yorkers, which was wild. It's like, yo, where are you from? And I was hanging out with the New Yorkers so much and then kind of like throwing rhymes around. And initially, You know, I was just kind of like not adapting to it. And then at a certain point, you know, being around them pretty much for like four years, started dressing alike. And it was one of my buddies was like, yeah, I'm going to go home and change. You're wearing the same thing I have on right now, bro. And it was it was it was a really funny vibe to the degree where people would ask, where are you from? It was like, he's like from Jersey or something. I was like, no, no, no. From Baltimore, he said.

Stevan Smith: Right. Right.

Rob Lee: So it's just sort of that that that thing that rubs off, you know, when you're you're around folks in that environment. And, you know, definitely, you know, I went down business school, you know, business admin, but a concentration in marketing. And I was really interested in sort of this lane. You know, I've been doing podcasts for like 15 years. So, you know, that's sort of one of those things, like a year after graduating, just like radios for me or some version of radio.

Stevan Smith: Right. Right.

Rob Lee: Yeah, that's dope. And I think sort of that the business stuff gives you the foundation, you know, for a lot of stuff. But I think you need pieces of it. And you're going to it's the foundational. I think that's what it is. It's the foundational. So stepping back a little bit, you know, where was your, like, first, like, moment when you realized, like, I really like radio. I really like this idea of radio. What were some of the things you were listening to growing up? Like, I know New York has that. Music gets broken there. So tell me about that.

Stevan Smith: I think. I mean, my earliest influences with music in general is probably more so rooted in soul music and rhythm and blues. My mother was like, you know, heavy into the Stevie Wonders and you know, Michael Jackson, Al Green, Marvin Gaye, all of that, Temptations. So I had a base in that. But also, you know, my brother and my father were DJs. My father obviously, you know, DJ from a different time. But my brother growing up in the 80s, being 10 years older than me, was a hip hop DJ. So not just through him, but I was exposed to a lot of hip hop. So we listened to the radio because back then, New York radio, hip hop wasn't on the FM dial. You had to go to an AM station that, you know, you got to tweak the knob so crazy that, you know, you kind of hear it, but you don't, but you hear enough to enjoy. And then, you know, later on, they started to get shows later, you know, Mr. Magic and, you know, DJ Red Alert and all of that. So I think that was, I didn't necessarily know that, hey, I want to do that. I just liked hip hop. And these were the people who were presenting it. And the connection to me even changing my major to radio was, OK, I don't sing. So I'm not going to change my major to anything related to music in that regard. I don't play instruments. So I'm not going to do that. I may love it, but I don't do any of that. What can I do where I could be connected to music in another way? And when I saw radio broadcasting, I'm like, wow, I could do that. Because I had DJed for a little bit. you know, when I was younger. So I already had the concept down of presenting music to the public, you know, or to a party. And I didn't know I was getting it. I was just enjoying it from the Mr. Magix and everybody else.

Rob Lee: That's dope. I've had these moments where I used to do, back when you were burn CDs and all that, I used to have this mixtape that was just stuff that I was listening to and it was for me. It wasn't like, hey, I like you, here's my mixtape, you should check it out. It was just like, no, I like these songs. And I eventually crafted that idea. That was just something I did for my own personal sort of vibe and crafted that idea, you know, into like a podcast. You know, it's just like, we're talking like 2010, 29, you know, I mean, 2009, 2010, and putting out these sort of like, you know, these are people that are about to pop. These are people that are about to blow. and just seeing them be very successful. And I was like, wow. And I always look back. I'm not a music journalist. I don't have any background in that area, but I just know that sort of shift. And I know where I was at at that time and how deep I was in the music. I was into like pigeons and planes and just finding all of that stuff and even being influenced in that way during that time. And, you know, now having again, going back to the sort of business standpoint and being a podcaster, I'm looking for ways to fuse those things together, because for me, it's taste. For me, it's curation. For me, it's like this desire to share this with folks. And it's like, I think this is good. You guys should check this out. So. using that sort of concept, talk a bit about your journey. I'm seeing intern at WEAA. So I got to hear about that a bit, because that was the first time I was ever on the radio, by the way, at WEAA. First time I was ever on the radio. Really? Yes. What show? It was Omar Muhammad's joint. Right, right, right. So some of the business students, they were like, yeah, you know, two-way talk, briefcase radio, you guys should go over there. Right. So, yeah, that was the first instance.

Stevan Smith: Yes, for me, it was full transparency. I partied a lot at Morgan. OK, I'm not going to tell you any lies or make it seem like I was studying all crazy and being academic. No, it was a party. We was at it. But. There was a point where, you know, I was like, yeah, OK, I could party and keep my grades decent. But what am I doing when it's time to leave? Because college in four years, or five in my case, it can feel like it's the thing you're doing for eternity. Because it feels like it's such a long time from when you graduated, but you're so far away from when you first arrived. And you're just kind of in the mix. So I started thinking about it my junior year. I was like, you know, the curriculum is cool, but I need some straight up hands on experience because unlike, and I got some EAA stories for you, but unlike today where, you know, there's a state of the art building with equipment and all that stuff, we were in the old building. And the curriculum was old, and the equipment was old. And I'm talking about older than me. You walking in like, is that a reel-to-reel? Like, what? We're going to use that? Like, you know what I'm saying? And like you said, CDs are around, all kinds of things. At some point, I was like, I have to intern somewhere. And I didn't have a car and all of that. So I was like, I'm thinking about 92Q. And because I grew up listening to commercial radio, I knew nothing about public radio, like nothing at all. I thought it was all the same, just different formats. I can't remember who it was. It might have been a professor or another student that was like, oh, well, you should go up to Morgan Station. And I'm like, nah, I don't want to intern at a student station. I want a real station. They're like, no, it's an FM station. It's upstairs. And I'm like, what? You know, so, you know, I went, I never knew it was upstairs. I'm taking classes in this building. I went upstairs and, you know, just walked in and, you know, inquired about internship and, you know, they gave me an application and I was looking at the different jobs and I already knew. you know, all the different departments, I already knew where I wanted to be because I didn't want to be a host. I didn't want to, you know, I could, I probably could do production because that was kind of already, you know, in me a little bit with making tapes and stuff like that. But I knew I wanted to do programming because I was like, who's the guy who oversees everything I hear? You know what I'm saying? And so I wound up getting an internship with WEAA under the program director at the time, Kyle LaRue, shout out to him, who was also a DJ on the Strictly Hip Hop show by the name of DJ Kaz. And I didn't even know that the hip hop show that I heard on campus was the one on the FM station. But I was so laser-focused on, I need a job when I graduate, and I want to be him. Because he was younger. He went to Temple. You know, he was Black. He sound golden on the radio, right? Like, for those who don't know, because it's a funny connected story that happened to me even when I worked later at WNYC. I was fascinated. First time I saw him host, I was fascinated how he said W on the radio. Because he would, it was so flawless. He'd be like, W-E-A-A. And you're like, damn, he's, I don't, I'm a sound ignorant when I say W, you know what I'm saying? So it just left an impression on me. You know what I mean? Because it was like the perfect time in my college career to be there, to meet him and other people who I've met that kind of put me on the path I am on today.

Rob Lee: That's dope. And, you know, as a person who, you know, I really didn't listen to WAA when I was there. Right. Like probably beforehand, I had this sort of weird response to and I definitely want to get your take on the sort of the sort of programming or this format, if you will. I remember like the first I think the like the first year I was at Morgan, I worked as a janitor. Me, my dad, and my younger brother, we all worked together. So my dad would have Gary Ellaby on. That was what we were listening to. And I was like, what's this jazz? Where's the rap music? I want to hear about guns. That was what I was on as an idiot, like 18-year-old. And, you know, but but to your point, you know, I was listening to like Strictly Hip Hop and not doing the same like, you know, this is the same station. And I used to stay up like this was like a like super late like, you know, you're listening to this at like 2 a.m. like you're you're out here. And of the five. Yeah. And then and then kind of, you know, going back to it and then having that experience and being there. And, you know, one of my good friends who I did a podcast with for a while and he and I are in the improv scene. He he has his background. He has a production background from the from the school there. Right. So like having those connections and initially being repellent to it and repellent to that sort of genre of music is like this is my dad's music. Where's the rap? Right.

Stevan Smith: Right.

Rob Lee: Just being ignorant or legitimately ignorant.

Stevan Smith: Well, you know what, really quick, that was the other part of it, right? I was this huge hip hop head with a bass and soul music. Jazz, I learned through A Tribe Called Quest, right? And other artists, you know, I'm hearing Ron Carter on the bass, and I'm like, who's Ron Carter, you know? And now I'm at a station that at that time, when I got there, was primarily jazz format, where I was kind of getting an education in jazz as well, because they did a little contemporary and they did straight ahead as well. And again, shout out to Kyle LaRue. You know, he was giving me that background that helped me. But I still later on became the host of Strictly Hip Hop.

Rob Lee: That's dope, that's dope. And, you know, I think, you know, with jazz music specifically, and I want to hear a bit about sort of, you know, what I like to call it and reading over the background, calling your shot a little bit of going back to, you know, WBGO. And I was like, oh, she's gone. OK, I got you. So I want to hear a little bit about that. But in it, the way that I discovered, I guess, sort of jazz music and this is the caveat. I only have like In the crigs, I'm in my home studio right now, which sounds really pretentious. It's just no crates. It's fine. I have like maybe six records in here, right? Five of the six records are jazz records. So that says a lot. Like, you know, you want to be very mindful of the tangible items you have in this digital world. And I was like, jazz records are 85% of what I have and mostly Charles Magus, because for me, right, personalities, and it's about those stories and kind of diving into documentaries and learning these things has felt like so ignorant. I just didn't know.

Stevan Smith: Right, right. It's it's it's such a if you're a music fan, It's such a dope experience to discover music in that way, right? Like with jazz, I found a lot of similarities in hip hop, right? With the fans, with the, you know, different genres, how people felt about it. Some of the stories, like you mentioned, like I knew Miles Davis and I knew John Coltrane, but I didn't know them intimately in the way a jazz head did. And you know, I learned what to, because the first time I went to like a jazz event as an intern, right, working at a primarily jazz station, you know, they're clapping. And I'm like, we clap, we clap. Like, what they doing? Like, you know what I'm saying? And I had to learn what they've already known, right, about solos and what it takes to play that instrument and why you're clapping because of what he's doing and the sound that, you know, Thelonious Monk is getting out of the piano versus someone else, you know, Cyrus Chestnut or whatever. So it's kind of those nuances that we get in hip hop because, you know, I was raised in it and I could pointed out. But with jazz, it was like, oh, I'm getting another lesson. And I didn't plan to be in jazz radio forever. But a lot of that played into public radio for the most part.

Rob Lee: So so how did that come about? How did that initial relationship there come about? And you working with WBGO and sort of the role that you, you know, were or are most recently in the the chief content officer there. Talk about that a bit and sort of what that means for you and some of the things that that you value. Because I want to hear a bit about that, because when you're in that that role around content, you know, content, you know, I've had another Morganite on, we were talking about content, they may work for a public media platform as well. And we're talking through sort of like, my values are absolutely going to be in what I'm looking at. So I want to hear a bit about that.

Stevan Smith: Yeah, I think I think at some point when just doubling back to EAA, at some point as a intern, when I became the host of Strictly Hip Hop, it wasn't something I was trying to do. It wasn't something that I actually wanted. I just wanted to be a program director. And I remember Kyle telling me, like, you need at least 10 years of on air experience. to be a program director. You have to know what it is to be in there, hosting live, hosting out of town, being a personality, everything about being that person on the mic before you can go and tell others how to do it. So the Strictly Hip Hop situation just kind of fell on my lap. You know, you're in the station all the time with interns, you're talking to different people, you're talking hip hop. He's the hip hop head, he's DJ on the show. And the former host was, you know, trying to move on. And one day they just came to me and they was like, we think you should be the new host. You know hip hop, you know radio, you're the perfect host for it. So it was one of those things where I didn't want to ignore opportunities. You know, so I took the opportunity. It was my first experience hosting, producing, managing a team of DJs, interns, all that good stuff. I was the host while you were there. And then I became the producer of the show. But it. Yeah, and a lot of what you still hear is from me, just just so y'all know. Right. It just didn't change. This is crazy. Um, but eventually, and I wasn't getting paid for any of this, by the way. Eventually, I got a job as traffic manager there, and that's tied to programming and program logs. The hosts use the program logs to kind of as a guide for their show hour after hour. And that was a job I started doing while I was interning. But now I was getting paid for it. And eventually, just because of my experience, my know-how, my hunger, I eventually got a job as assistant PD at WEA. And I only did that for a little while because when I graduated from Morgan, my goal was always to come back home because New York City is the largest media market. Why would I not? try to make it there when I'm from there, you know. But I didn't want to leave BMO without any tangible experience. So I, you know, I'm assistant PD, still kind of doing traffic for the station. But then I see there's a job at WBGL. And I knew WBGL, right? I didn't know it intimately, because I grew up listening to other stuff. Um, but I knew BGO from being like the jazz station, but also, uh, my mentors knew them. Mentors at EAA knew like the program director and the CEO. So I was able to get that job, uh, at BGO as traffic manager because I just wanted to get in. I wanted to get in the building. I wanted to get in the tri-state area and in any job because I knew I had already acquired enough skills to move on maybe two or three years from then. So I did that. Me and my family picked up, moved here in 2007. And, you know, I worked at BGO for a number of years, but the and I'm trying not to say too much to make this too long, but a good portion of my time, my tenure in that role was spent working from home before it was fashionable. Because kids happen. Yeah. And it was I just knew at the time, hey, I could do this job from home and then we don't have to pay like aftercare and all this because daycare is expensive and all of that. And, you know, we had a home here. So property taxes way higher than the home we had to be more. So it was kind of like life and work. And I had to put myself on the shelf. So it wasn't until maybe close to six years later when I started to get back in the groove because I was doing side projects like podcasting and blogging during the blog era and learning social media and things like that. And it was helping, you know, it was benefiting me basically. But I was, I felt stagnant in my career because I'm like, you know, I graduated to do this. I got a nice start. Did I make a mistake? Should I stayed in BMO and I could have been the PD of EAA? So it was a lot of that playing in my mind career wise, but I was putting family first. And eventually I did leave WBGO in 2018 to be the assistant program director at WNYC. And I don't know if people watching understand what that means in public radio, but that's a big job. This is the largest, this is already the largest market, but this is the premier news and talk radio station in a public radio ecosystem in Soho, New York. And I'm number two. And, you know, obviously I was ecstatic because I'm thinking like, yo, I'm washed up. They're not gonna want me. I've been over here doing this job. But it was because, and it's for anybody younger than me, it's still in schools, trying to get on, whatever. Because I kept myself busy in a medium that was related to what I did, which is the digital space, that's exactly why they hired me. Because I was, my competition for the job was people who wanted to be producers or talent or, you know, bloggers and things like that. And they were just trying to get a job with NYC. Whereas I had a deep radio background in public media, but also I gathered all this experience with digital, which their department was lacking that person who had that. So it was perfect for me. Long story short, because it's been long. The opportunity opened up at WBGO to be chief content officer. And some people would say, whoa, wait a minute, you're at WNYC, that ceiling is kind of crazy. You sure you want to leave? But I kind of looked at it, and they're right. But I looked at the opportunity of, one, there's assistant PD, program director, CCO. Not the same places, not the same resources, but the same legend, so to speak. You know, BGO is just as renowned as WNYC is. It's just that WNYC has the resources and the funds. I saw myself stepping into a role where I'm like, maybe I could help BGO get there. Right. With Only Jazz Game in Town in New York City. We have the name recognition. we just don't have the city buzzing for us and listening to us in the same way. So that's what attracted me to it. And obviously I'm looking at my career and I'm looking at what goes on my resume because I lost some time and I'm trying to gain time. And it was, I won't say it was luck, but it was, it was a lot of hard work and staying the course that, um, maybe get to this situation and this level where now, you know, I don't have to go back to what I was doing. I kind of did it, you know.

Rob Lee: So let me comment on that real quick. And I definitely want to dive a bit deeper and sort of thinking that goes into, you know, sort of being in that programming, that content sort of realm. And I definitely get where you're coming from, where I've been doing this for a long time, right? And, you know, I remember when it was just like, you're a loser. Why are you in your mom's basement recording podcasts? You're stupid, all of this stuff, right? And, you know, in doing it and see, like, everyone just gets a podcast and they're trying to do their thing. You know, I've had the opportunity over the last year to actually teach like the next generation of podcasters. So that's been really cool, really rewarding. But just still seeing like this, this notion like, man, I'm washed. I'm not making the 10 X or whatever. You know, people who don't look like me say I should be making right or. even this idea, you'll love this. You know, I'm 6'4", I'm a large black man, right? A large delicious black man for the context. And the thing that happens is I hear it all the time, whether it's in the sort of micro vibe or in the real vibe, you don't look like a podcaster. Your podcast isn't black enough. I've heard all of those things. Then at the same time, in terms of the sort of microaggressions, some of the things that are offered from some of the, you know, public media outlets where it's like, hey, we need some we need content. We want to hit this demo. We want to hit this group, this age group or this this race group. Right. And and these are behind the scenes conversations, obviously. And it's like, that's that's fine. But then when it comes to, again, the business thing, going back to the full circleness of it all, the minute I come up with any semblance of a contract or questions or anything along those lines, You know, I'm left on read. So that's that's that's sort of where I'm coming from in this sort of realm. Yeah.

Stevan Smith: Yeah. You know what? Like, you know, just to just to be completely transparent, like with with WNYC, there was a little bit of that. Right. Like as far as I like me even getting the job, because, you know, you walk in and you're like, oh, I just added a percentage to this department. You know what I'm saying? But you know your worth, right? So it's about, for you, it becomes more about not that, because they need more than that, right? They don't need you to get in a job and not know how to do it because then it becomes more of a problem. But there is a lot of that because people just aren't exposed to us and the complexities of us. And they don't really know how to appreciate it when they have it, or even know how to promote it, or utilize your talents in the best way, or even speak to you properly. And I think for me, throughout my life and including this situation, there's a lot of things that, you know, I dealt with younger that are not necessarily negative, but as far as exposure, that made it easier for me to navigate these situations because for those watching or listening, I'm Black everything, right? I look Black. I am Black. I'm from Bed-Stuy. I went to a Black high school. I went to HBCU. WEAA was predominantly Black. Baltimore is Black. You know what I'm saying? BGO was Black, right? And is. So when I came to WNYC, then that's when I'm like, oh, here's the other path, you know? So I kind of, I also kind of fit a quota because I was different, right? This brother next to me went to this Ivy League school, you know, worked at Gimlet, you know, like he came up through another chain where he was always in a minority situation. I came up through a chain where we're always the majority. Right. But I just had this background where I'm comfortable in any environment. So it didn't bother me as much. And obviously you support your people. But it is unfortunately, it's a thing that people still don't get to this day. They don't really even know how to hire us. Right.

Rob Lee: Or scout. And that's one of the things where, you know, in looking at it, like, you know, realistically, you know, you have these moments of I prefer to be independent. I prefer to do what I'm doing. Right. Right. But at the same time, it is one of those things is like, I don't want to go to the party, but I want that real invitation. I want to see what our offer looks like. You know, that's sort of the thing. And, you know, seeing sort of what that industry and macroly speaking has had happened with, you know, sort of job insecurity and just what the flux is and just seeing what podcasting looks like as, you know, sort of that blending of what that industry looks like as well, because it is an industry. It is it is wild. And I'm like, oh, OK, maybe maybe this was the universe kind of helped me out. You know that this didn't work out at that time because it. It might have been a bad spot. You might not even be doing this anymore. But, you know, and I'll say this from from my vantage point, I can do this. I enjoy doing these these interviews and talking with folks who I say it all the time are much more talented than I am. But, you know, it is this this sort of thing where. As I was touching on earlier, being able to educate, being able to teach, because it's like people hear the word podcast, they hear these different things. I was like, you guys are saying a lot of buzz stuff. This is actually how it works in real life in the lab. That's what I've been doing. And generally, there are people that look like me and you. You know, they're getting the sort of rundown or what have you that's not quite accurate. And it's like, oh, this is like a record deal. This is like a bad record deal. You're in a 360 for podcasters. So, you know, if I can help from my vantage point in whatever that might look like, that's what I feel like my responsibility, my role is. You know, I see that, you know, you were doing a podcast for a bit, My Little Podcast, and sort of that focus was having, you know, these interesting conversations with like creative folks. And I listened to like two of them before we got connected today. And so talk about sort of the thinking going into that, the thinking that goes in to like what you do on a day to day. And how that maybe applies to supporting like what you value, you know, as a creative, as a person in the public media sphere.

Stevan Smith: So the job of chief content officer, that person oversees all of the content on the broadcast side and on the digital side. That's every program you hear on the radio to social media and articles on the website, podcasts that you produce with the team. And in Accepting this role, even though there was a lot of knowledge I already gained through work experience and the things I did on my own, obviously I felt like I need more. I need to learn. I need the pulse of what's happening next, right? Whether it's for radio, it's for podcasting or whatever. And attending conferences is always, it was always a benefit for me, right? Like the past two years, I attended the podcast movement evolutions conference, which is more of the business centered version, like it's still podcasting, but you get a lot more information regarding the business of podcasting versus their other conference that's more so just celebrating content creators who podcast and things like that. And I would go there and I would take notes and there are things that I'm grabbing for, you know, for BGO or whatever organization I'm working for, but then I'm a podcaster. So there are things I'm grabbing for myself, techniques, things that work. And it's really not that difficult, you know, I think a lot of times we put pressure on ourselves whether we're independent or we have a team that's independent, or we work for an organization to say podcasting needs to sound like this or this. But it's really not. That's why, you know, that's why everybody's losing money. Because podcast, people who listen and consume podcasts, like myself, you know, we're not that picky, but it's oversaturated at this point. one thing I saw at the last conference I was at was, I think that was in Las Vegas, where I was sitting in a session. And it was about production, right? Like, you know, things that happen while you record an interview like this. And you know, what you fix in post and how you handle yourself in the moment. So I just wanted to hear what they were going to say. And everything that was said, I already knew. But there was one thing that stood out to me was this dude is just sitting here talking on a stage. And people like including myself or taking notes and typing and, and I'm like, he's not doing anything that people that look like me and you can't do. And sound just as interesting. Because to your point, with podcasts being saturated, and They're kind of being like a neck, especially with the brothers. And I'm talking white brother, Black brother, whatever. You want to slice it of being a bro thing to have a podcast instead of something that could be an intellectual, interesting conversation. And that's when I got the idea for My Little Podcast, because I'd been podcasting for years. But I never fully committed to the production and to the performance of it because it was casual. It was an offshoot of me doing strictly hip hop. And, you know, I kept it that way to keep it from feeling like work. But the My Little Podcast project was my way to say, here's all my experience as a as a host, as an interviewer, as a production person, as a promotions person. Everything you see in here from the artwork to the quality of interviews. And trust me, there was some fix it in post moments for sure. I wanted it to be not only an example of what I can do and all my skills, but I wanted to highlight people who weren't necessarily like, you know, A-listers and stuff like that. And just say, this person has an interesting journey that can inspire you, even if you don't do any of this stuff. it may inspire you to do something totally different than what they're doing. But hearing their story, maybe you can relate. So that was the whole objective, was highlighting us as Black people, but also highlighting content creators of all kinds. And then for myself, just showing that I could put this together. And then I'll just share, well, you know, my contacts that look different from us and say, this is what you want from us, you know, so.

Rob Lee: And that seems very similar to what my approach has been in doing this, you know, like in starting this in 2019, you know, as a response to just Trump talking wild, spicy about Baltimore. And I was like, I refuse. And then being able to, you know, sort of look at that through line, like what are other cities, what are the communities that I think match that energy that is here? It's very much a DIY thing. It's very much a lot of black folks and they aren't getting those opportunities. Their work isn't considered to be on the same par as maybe their white counterparts or what have you. And that's really where the focus remains. Obviously, you know, I talk to anyone that catches my attention. You know, that's really because one of the benefits of like, look, I'm the curator here. But also there is a focus in that area, too, of always doing that. And that's why I go to some of the places I go to. Like this project, for the most part, is self-funded. So when folks come out of the blue and it's like, you're not getting an assistant, you're usually going to get me. And, you know, we can we can talk through it, whatever that might look like. And, you know, if I'm setting up to do interviews in other cities, like a Philadelphia, like New Orleans, where I've gone, you know, recently, relatively recently and done interviews there, it has that sort of same approach and that same through line. And it's about community. It's about connecting. And it's about like highlighting folks that it's like people don't say this is here. Tell me about what really happens here. Right. There's what when I see from a sort of content perspective, there's different watered down kind of corny versions of that that I just see floating around. And, you know, I don't try to gas myself up. But as I said before, my partner is from the same part of the woods you're from. She does all of the gassing up for me. She's like, why can't why can't you just host this person is mid? And she just goes down the list of why they kind of suck. Right. I think it's it's sort of that like we get that one or two people and they're trying to do so many different things. Right. Just not doing the chief thing that they're there to do.

Stevan Smith: Yeah. And you really can't, man, because I mean, that was part of this idea that I had wasn't new. It's just that in that moment at that conference, I decided to just go ahead and do it. It was something I wanted to do for the longest, but I just couldn't commit to doing something that I knew I was going to do everything, because I felt like I've always done that with everything. And I've had a number of podcasts over the years, but I think it's important for people to just understand that You know, if you make your content meaningful to yourself, of course, but also to your potential audience, and not necessarily think about positives and negatives, but think about what can a person walk away with, and it becomes a part of their life or part of their thinking, that maybe you've given them in an interview or a question you asked or an answer that was given or just you having a great conversation with someone. And maybe that reminds them of a relationship that they need to mend, you know, I mean, because they can relate to it. Just making something relatable is what you need to do. And then you you get loyalty from a lot of people. Because my numbers aren't like, crazy. You know, they're cool. You know, my hip hop podcast does better than it, but it's been around for like 100 years. But I think a lot of people who did tune in appreciated it. And, and it just, it made me happy. Because at the end of the day, there was something I wanted to accomplish with this. And as a proof of concept, next time I do it, I will not be doing it by myself. Somebody is going to put a bag in front of me and a team And then we just do it in a studio and stuff like that, because that's the element that was missing. This was all online over Riverside FM and stuff like that. And then me tweaking audio, because I may have a good internet connection, but that doesn't mean another person does. Yeah, man, you just got to you just got to work at it. And, you know, just keep making connections and you you find your way to the people who can connect you to the things you want.

Rob Lee: I mean, if if we're thinking about it, and it's funny, you were you were talking about making a long story short earlier. You've answered, like, I think all of my questions, which is great, except for the rapid fire ones. Those are there to you got to answer. But I think the thing that's that's really cool about it is you know, I, I, and I just want to, I just want to get your, your take on this. Like, I think, you know, sort of the proof of concept idea, like looking at sort of what I do for sake of argument and what a lot of folks do with their podcasts being used as a portfolio. It's like, look, this is what I've done. Um, even this, this sort of notion of, you know, just just trying it out. And I always tell folks, do you have the stamina for it? You know, like when I talk to my students and they're like, yeah, you know, you just kind of mess around, you know, shoot the ass a little bit. And I was like, nah, that's not what it is. You're you're making a bad one. Make something good. Make something worth. Make something that you actually, you know, have fine value in. And, you know, I've in the past recorded with other people, but I'm the producer of the show with the whole thing. And You know, with it, when that sort of shift happens of, hey, I need you to do this research, I need you to do these social media posts or whatever is needed for it, it might be instead of, I need you to do 5% of the work, it's like, I need you to do like 7%. Oh man, this is so hard now. So I definitely relate to this notion. You know, so it's sort of like at one point in this whole podcast journey, this podcast has been out for four years, just to just about four years and 700 episodes in four years. And the majority of them happened in one year is like three hundred thirty three in one year. And. That was just pretty much me. I have a I have an editor. That's the main thing that I have. But aside from that, right. Sort of I come from a perspective of if it's something you enjoy, you should do it. You should do it regularly. But also you got to have the stamina for it.

Stevan Smith: Yeah, you absolutely do. And I think over time, because I spent some time, you know, outside of my job producing other podcasts because I have produced other podcasts, one that was truly successful. um, which was in those jeans. I didn't, I didn't necessarily produce it, even though that's what you wanted. And I was like, Ooh, no, this is a lot of work. Uh, but, uh, I consulted on it and, you know, it wound up winning awards and being extremely successful. But then on the flip side, there were other podcasts that I produced that had potential to just be good, unique podcasts that would stick out in the market. And they just did not have the stamina to keep up with keeping it interesting because it was a fun thing, right? You know, yo, we get to talk about this and let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. And then it's the differences in the stamina that I had. I have is because I'm in radio and we do this all the time. So we know the levels, the depths you need to go to make something good and how long you have to go. to please an audience. And in my role, which is audience from program director, assistant program to chief content officer, it's all about audience, right? And understanding your audience and not just making things for you. You can make, you can have a whole podcast series for yourself, but just please understand you can't get upset when you see it's two views or three audio downloads because there's a lot more you need to do. beyond just making a good show to make it a successful show.

Rob Lee: So yeah, stamina is the thing, the thing I'm hearing so much of. And yeah, like, You know, it's we're preaching to the choir. You know, we're on the same page. I mean, obviously, you're a professional in the industry. I'm just a guy that's floating around. But now I think it I think it makes a lot of sense. So with that, I want to transition into these rapid fire questions because I got four of them. All right. What was the first record that you owned?

Stevan Smith: All right. So, you know, you know, I'm black. I'm from the hood. So when you say own define record. Right, right. Like, yeah, none of them had labels. I just would say, hey, can I get a copy? Oh, but my my and I actually have a video that I did for somebody else because I still have the tapes. But the first record I was able to buy with my own money in the record store was Poor Righteous Teachers, Pure Poverty. It's a hip hop album. They were kind of conscious back then. a little dance hall flavor with some of the stuff they did. And I always liked them. Most people who at least kind of know them may know the song, Rock This Funky Joint, which was on their debut album. This was their second album. And you got the money. I'm a music fan, so it's burning a hole in my pocket. And I get to go to a record store. So I picked it up. And then after that, I was just addicted to doing that all the time.

Rob Lee: I used to used to go to the Wild Flea Market and then just get just get like CDs that I shouldn't have had. Like, oh, I'm going to get this Beanie Sigel joint and then like the Queensbridge album, like QB. Yeah. Starting that era.

Stevan Smith: Right. Yeah. And trust me, my mother said this and doesn't mean I follow. They're like, don't get any of those cuss records. And I'm like, that's exactly what I'm going to get.

Rob Lee: You know how you have the expletive deleted? It's like, no, I want the one with the extra expletives in there. It's like, oh, those are outtakes. Right, right, exactly. What was the last book you read?

Stevan Smith: The last book I read, damn. And audiobooks count too. You kind of unearthing my bad habits. I have a bad habit of starting books and then stopping and looking at them for years of like, I'm gonna finish, I'm gonna read when I go on vacation, I'm gonna read that. I'm gonna read it today. But the last one I read completely through because I was addicted to it was Rakim's autobiography. And that was fairly recent. And a lot of it had to do with me at the time, because you know, right now, of the recording is a during a recordings interview or whatever this year, 2023 is the 50th year of hip hop. So you're seeing Rakim everywhere. But prior to this book, that man wasn't doing interviews. So for me, I'm like, Oh, I get to hear everything about him from the horse's mouth. And it was it was interesting. And I you know, I couldn't stop. So that's one of the books I like finished quick. So

Rob Lee: The Mercurial Aquarius. We're on the same page. We're on the same page. So he's the last two. This one is a, I think it's an obvious one, but I at least want to get your feedback on it. Vinyl or digital?

Stevan Smith: Man, listen, I said earlier, soul music, right? Yeah. I'm not opposed to having, I digitized all my music years ago. I wanted it to travel with me, because I just thought that was dope that I could take all my music with me and listen to anything. But when vinyl started to come back, many albums that I have, but I kind of stuck to the classics for budget reasons. I got to say vinyl because the first time in a long time when I bought that record player recently, a couple of years back, and I bought Marvin Gaye. It's not what's going on. I can't remember. It's one of my favorite albums. But I bought a Marvin Gaye album. And when I put it on, the warmness that you get from wax and a little bit of the crackle, and you start to feel like an adult when you hear it, you know? I gotta go with vinyl because my digital, you know, I put it on. I'm cool. I'm not mad at it. I like it. You know, I got headphones with bass. But when you put that on, it's it's a ceremony that's taken place.

Rob Lee: Wax is there. I hear you. It feels like something is lost. And I like you mentioned the sort of crackle. Right. And it goes back to the thing that I was saying earlier. It's obviously these things were digital, but it's the further we get removed from like one of those like touch point, touch tone points. It's just like you see the differences. Like I go back. almost 14 years ago in reference, I was like, yeah, this is when I was like definitely digging through the crates. And I'm one of those guys like I'll find something 30, 40 years older than I am. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, this slaps. I'm into this. Right. I'll just go into it and I'll just do a deep dive. Very eclectic taste. And you're right. When you hear that initial crack, I was like, Okay, music is playing right now. This is tight.

Stevan Smith: Right. You know what the thing is? It's like today, because my hip hop podcast is like a news related podcast, I need to stay up on releases and all that kind of stuff. And today, A release is we up at midnight, we're on Twitter, we call them the classic in two seconds. We haven't even heard it. But back in the day, and I'm not even just talking about vinyl, I'm talking about cassette and even CD. it was more of an experience, an intimate experience first, because it was just you. So you're reading lighter notes. You probably went and picked up the magazine that got the article that previewed the album. It was this whole experience that means you appreciate music, or at least give it a good shot if it was not that good, because you're going to listen to it and read about it.

Rob Lee: I'm going to throw this last one out, this last observation, because it relates. I think you'll really dig it before I get to the last question. So when Kanye West's first album came out, I was at Morgan, 19 years old. So I remember it was a circuit city and it was a very weird way. I somehow between periods took the bus, the Baltimore MTA, to go to Circuit City in Timonium, in Lutherville to be specific, to get that college dropout joint and just blasting it the whole way through, going through the liner notes, looking at the samples, being one of those. That's a moment for me of, I went there for this record, got this record, and feel happy about this record.

Stevan Smith: Right. It's an experience. It's a memory, right? Like, you were on a mission, right? I need to get this joint. I already got my tools to zone out and absorb it. And, you know, we have a lot of those stories, whereas today that story can't be duplicated through digital, even though they've tried, because now it's more so like, who can be the first to post about it? So are you really listening?

Rob Lee: It's a FOMO thing. The thing I would hear is like, yeah, I remember we listened to this album for the summer, not for like, I'm kind of done with this, I'll move on. It reminds me of this interview that Donald Glover did, and he was talking about albums losing their specialness. And he was just like, yeah, I can just listen to this Drake album and then go on with my day. He's like, I used to be obsessed with music. And now it's kind of like, all right, that was cool. And that's a few tracks in it. I like moving on.

Stevan Smith: Yeah, it's like a microwave. I do a lot of like listening in the gym. And I kind of still get that intimate experience because it's here and I'm focused on the workout and I'm listening. But I don't know who produced what. Every now and again, I look down and say, who's featured on here, you know, on this record because of the voice. But that's where it ends. I leave the gym. I don't pick up unless I really like it, you know, so.

Rob Lee: It's almost like the rappers that are featured on there have like radio station call signs as their names. I don't know what it has. Like, oh, that's who's on here. Word. Right. Right. So this is the last one. I don't do too much of this. But, you know, as a person that's been in the industry, you know, you're coming up on three decades, Mikey, like good on you. And you've had multiple stops, multiple jobs. Is there a totem? you know, like a bobblehead or book or something that always comes with you. Like I have things in my studio that are always there and I feel at home when I'm at the studio and I see my items. But for you to go from, you know, home to office, this location, that location, is there a totem that always comes with you that you're like, this is not my office until I have this here?

Stevan Smith: Originally, there wasn't, because when I was at EAA, you know, it was the first time I ever had an office, you know. And then when I came to BGO, I had a cubicle. And I never looked at a cubicle as a space to make my home. I always looked like I was about to quit the next day. Like, you go there, and they'd be like, damn, old He-Bro was a cup. Like, is he going to stay here? And I've always kind of been that way. When I went to NYC, it was more of an open space. And I kind of started a ritual, right? Because for me, everything, all my experiences, I never forget them. I always talk about them. EAA and what I did and learned in Baltimore. I kind of carry that. That's kind of like my totem that nobody can see. But once I got back in the game after raising kids, I was like, I need to do something because I didn't think this would happen. conference passes, event passes with my name on it. If you come in my office, you'll say, damn, what's all them damn tags on? And you wearing all of those? No, it's just a reminder of all of the places I went. Because I did a lot of traveling for radio, starting with WNYC, which I never did before, not for radio. So that was kind of my totem. That is my totem. If I would have known you said that, because I have it here, I would have just dragged them over here. Damn, where you put that? But it's kind of like my badges, so to speak. They're badges, but for me, it's like, this is what I've learned. This is all the experience I gained, you know, later on in my career that got me to this point.

Rob Lee: That's great. And thank you for that. I do a similar thing at the crib, and I'll tell you a bit about that off mic. But yeah, this has been delightful. And thank you for sharing. So in these final moments, one, I want to thank you for coming on and spending some time with me. And, and two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can check you out, work, social media, all of that good stuff, any anything you want to drop in these final moments, the floor is yours.

Stevan Smith: Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for having me. This was, this was excellent. I think it's trust me. I watched your stuff before I got on here, you know, as professionals do. Um, and I knew it was, you know, I liked what you were doing. I liked the conversation and, and I felt like I could see myself as a guest, right? I could put myself in your shoes and say, you know, well, I'll be as interesting as the rest of them or whatever. So I'm just honored to be a part of this. Now, when it comes to everything I'm doing, man, I'm all over social media under two different monikers, right? There are a lot of people who know me as Vegas, which was the name I used when I was on Strictly Hip Hop, and it's kind of followed me through my hip hop offerings. So on social media, if you search for the name Vegas World INC, it doesn't matter if it's TikTok, Spill, Instagram, I'm on all of them under that same name, tag name. And on LinkedIn, you could just look for me, Stevan Ann Smith, S-T-E-V-A-N. You know, I'm a collaborator. I'm a collaborative type person. You know, I'm always building and networking with people. And, you know, who knows what the future holds. So I like it.

Rob Lee: There you have it, folks. I want to again thank Stevan Van Smith for coming on to the podcast. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.