The Truth In This Art: Baltimore School for the Arts Principal Rosiland Cauthen Interview
Welcome to The Truth in Us Art. Thank you for joining me for my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I am joined by a dynamic leader in arts and education. My guest is the principal of the Baltimore School For the Arts, where she is dedicated to nurturing young talent and advancing arts education.
Rob Lee:With a commitment to diversity and community engagement, she is instrumental in guiding the next generation of artists. Please welcome Rosalind Cawthon. Welcome to the podcast.
Rosalind Cauthen:Hi. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you, Rob Lee. I'm so excited to be here with you.
Rob Lee:Thank you for coming on. Thank you for for making the time, and, you know, it is is one of those things. It's like I get all of the emails still from you, so so shout out to you, and I'm glad we're able to connect in this capacity to have you, come on to to this platform. And, you know, before we get into the the main questions around, like, your background and sort of arts and education, I wanna give you the space to to introduce yourself in your own words. And I think that there's a lot of energy in in in in, in in juice in someone saying who they are in their own words.
Rob Lee:So if you will, give us that
Rosalind Cauthen:introduction. Sure. Absolutely. So, officially my name is Rosalynn Cothin, but everyone calls me Roz for short. Even the students, the students call me Principal Roz, which I think is kind of cool, kind of fun.
Rosalind Cauthen:I am trained as a theater artist. I started out acting, directing, producing, hosting community events, post show discussions, arts as a way of activism and organizing, arts and education. I've been doing that type of work for a really, really long time. And I always start with that. It's important that even though now I'm like a school principal or administrator that in my heart, I'm an artist.
Rosalind Cauthen:And that is, that is my background. If you would have told me 5, 6 years ago that I would be the leader of a school like BSA, I probably would have laughed at you cause this was not my trajectory or not my plan. I thought I would be working in regional theater or collegiate theater, professional theater directing and doing community projects and stuff. But I'm really glad to have landed here at BSA. I'm a black woman.
Rosalind Cauthen:I'm a mom. I have 2 beautiful daughters. They're adults now, young adults. So glad I got that part of my life done. They're out on their own doing successfully right now.
Rosalind Cauthen:Thankful for that. I am, what else? I like to write. I like to go on walks in nature. I love to travel.
Rosalind Cauthen:I love to read books. I dabble at writing a little bit of poetry, and I don't know. I'm, I'm pretty, I try to be a a creative, fun loving, positive, laid back person, not allow too many things to stress me out.
Rob Lee:I love that. I love that intro. That and that's that's what comes off. I mean, we we're both doing the same thing. It's just it's just teeth and, like, eyes.
Rob Lee:As as my partner told me, she was like, whenever you're smiling, your eyes disappear. I was like, let me live. Let me live for a few seconds. So I I I I believe I read somewhere. You're not originally from from Baltimore.
Rob Lee:So what what brought you here? What are some of the aspects that that that keep you here? Yeah, I'm a Carolina girl. So I grew up in South Carolina, North Carolina, grew
Rosalind Cauthen:up right outside of Charlotte, scattered on that North Carolina, South Carolina border, went to college at College of Charleston, shout out to the low country Gullah Geechee live in, you know, I lived down there for 6 years, lived in Rocky Mount, North Carolina when I worked for teach for America for a couple of years. What brought me to Baltimore was grad school. So I did teach for America for 2 years in Eastern North Carolina. I taught theater arts to middle schoolers at Red Oak Middle School, and I really enjoyed that time of my life. But I knew that being a classroom teacher full time and that traditional sits was not the path for me.
Rosalind Cauthen:So I was looking for like something more, something like I really enjoyed working with my students. I really enjoyed being a teacher. It was also the time where like the no child left behind act was rolling through and I wasn't really feeling everything that was happening with that in the Bush administration. And I had a mentor who told me like, if you really want to be doing this art thing, seriously, you really want to be doing this theater thing. Seriously, get your MFA, get a master's of fine arts.
Rosalind Cauthen:It's going to open new doors for you. So I just kept hearing that voice, get your MFA, get your MFA. So I started to research MFA programs around the country and I settled on 2 or 3 that were really appealing to me. 1 was at, Towson University. One was at Emerson University up in Boston.
Rosalind Cauthen:And the other one I want to say was like maybe Rutgers or something in New Jersey. So I'm checking out all these different programs and I come to visit Baltimore and I go to Towson and I have to be honest with you, Rob Towson was kind of like, okay. But I fell in love with Baltimore. It was something about the city. Like I was staying with a extended family member out of west Baltimore.
Rosalind Cauthen:I was just traveling different parts of the city, going to different restaurants, try my first crab cake, or the Lexington market at Fatley's and try my first crab cake. And it was the vibe of Baltimore, that really spoke to me. And I, appreciated the program that I could, that I eventually graduated from, at Towson University. And that was 22 years ago and I never left. So Baltimore is definitely my, my home now.
Rob Lee:Thank you. That that's, that's great for, for taking us back and giving us the, the context. Cause I find, there are more and more folks that are I I used the term, like, transplants, and then it's like, no, I'm more of a Baltimorean than I was in these these other places. And, you know, having folks speak about sort of what they love and what they and and how they became charmed, if you will, by Charm City, which sounds really corny, but also it is is real. And, and that's that's a good thing when folks are coming from maybe different places and seeing those connections and finding those things and and hearing your your crab cake thing.
Rob Lee:We should trade notes. We should trade notes about crab cakes, make it mean. Wanna make a mean crab cake? We'll we'll share. We'll we'll trade notes.
Rob Lee:Okay. So you touched on earlier the theater background. So could you share more about that, specifically your time, at Shutter Center Stage and you founded a theater company. Let's, let's talk a bit about that.
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah, absolutely. So, oh my gosh, I've been doing theater for so long. Like I remember being in middle school and I'm doing one of my first plays, which was, which was a Christmas Carol. And I was the ghost of Christmas past. And I remember my costume of my hair and my makeup and all this, they like sort of transformed me to look like this ghost of Christmas past.
Rosalind Cauthen:And I remember the response of my classmates who didn't knew, didn't know that I had this thing in me, this like burning desire to do this theater thing. Cause I was like an academic kid or whatever kind of kid. And so we did a show for the school, like a little preview show for the school. And my peers just were like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that you did this thing. I didn't know what you were staying after school for.
Rosalind Cauthen:And you have this like talent. And so then I just started to like, recognize that maybe this is something for me. I was a church kid, so growing up Southern Baptist in the church, my parents were always putting me up front in some type of leadership role to do speeches and all this. I went to high school and did speech and debate. So something about it was always in me.
Rosalind Cauthen:When I was getting my MFA at Towson, I kept hearing about Center Stage and someone in my program, worked at Center Stage at the time. And when I tell you, and this is something for like young artists, when I tell you I bugged her so much, like I did not leave her like, sure. I got her nerves. Like each time I could talk, I'm like, listen, I want to come as soon as stage and work with you. Like, what's up?
Rosalind Cauthen:I saw there was a job posted. What's going on? Tell me when something was open and I'm constantly going to her, like, put me on, put me on, put me on. And she's like, we don't have anything. As soon as something came open, she thought of me, she let me know, like, listen, I have this part time thing.
Rosalind Cauthen:You know, you could come and work at our afterschool program encounter. It's every Monday. Can you be there every Monday from 4 o'clock to 6:30? I'm like, I'm there. That's my foot in the door.
Rosalind Cauthen:That's all I needed, Rob. That's all I needed. My foot in the door from there, Just doing a contract job for the afterschool program. I was offered a part time position. They're like, oh, we like what she's bringing.
Rosalind Cauthen:Let's give her a part time position. They created a part time position for me because I was just showing up this stuff. They will be so surprised. It will be like different little auxiliary events. And they would tell me about, and I would show up and they're like, I can't believe you came to this and you got 2 daughters and you brought them with you.
Rosalind Cauthen:You didn't have to be here. This was an optional thing. I'm like, yeah, I know, but I want to engage with this community. And so they want, they saw that. And so I say to young artists all the time, when they asked me about like, how to be successful, how to do that.
Rosalind Cauthen:Show up. You probably experienced this in your life. Like even with what you were saying about Artscape, someone says, Hey, Rob, you want to try this thing? And you're like, I don't know. Sure.
Rosalind Cauthen:Okay. I'll go. And you never know who you're going to meet. Who's going to be the next person to offer your job. So anyway, from that, they created this part time position for me working in community programs and education.
Rosalind Cauthen:We were doing after school programs. We were doing young playwrights festival. We were designing curriculum for summer programs and starting summer programs. And it felt like right in my wheelhouse because it was the professional world of theater, but also this education piece that I have been kind of exploring and massaging. Then from there, a full time position came open and I was there for 13 years, you know, work my way up education coordinator until I was actually running the entire community programs and education department, which was really cool.
Rosalind Cauthen:And I, and I had people who showed me the way it's not like we're self made. I don't think anyone just comes out self made. It was people who had gone before me, who taught me people that I had collaborated with as a teaching artist and understanding that role. So then when I became the head of the department, I knew each position and what it took, you know? And so my theater company, that's probably one of my favorite things that I did and probably some of the best times of my life.
Rosalind Cauthen:And so the hardest times of my life, to be honest, cause it was just that the w what was hard about it was it made me so busy because this was something extra that I kind of wasn't getting paid for that. I was fueling my own passion through this thing. So here's another thing that I tell young people or young artists that ask me for advice and stuff, which happens more now than, you know, I was used to. But if you want to do something and you keep getting rejected or you keep getting no's and you keep wanting to do something, you're auditioning for 5 or 10 different plays and you're not getting it, or you're putting forth this play you wrote and no one's giving you the space to do it, do it yourself, like create it yourself. And that's one of my favorite things about Baltimore.
Rosalind Cauthen:I think that's why the charm spoke to me is that Baltimore is one of these types of artistic cities where you don't have to have a long pedigree or a long resume or all this. You can just jump in and start doing stuff. You know what I mean? Like I started meeting people. Graduate school is great for connections.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like it costs a lot of money and not everybody's able to get a master's degree. But one thing that happened for me was I met a lot of people that I could then go back to. So, you know, Towson is a predominantly white institution. The presence of African American folks in the theater department was pretty small, but we were there. And so I started to run into diff.
Rosalind Cauthen:I w I started to run into different undergraduates and the undergraduate theater majors were like, they would see me and they would just tell me all these issues, all kinds of complaints that they had about how things were in a department. We never get cast. We never get to do our own thing. No, no, no, no. Like all these issues they were having as a group of black undergraduate students.
Rosalind Cauthen:I had similar experiences, but not the same. So I said, all right, let's organize ourselves. And it started out with maybe like 5 or 6 of us. And then that grew to 8 or 9, and I grew to 10 or 11, 11 or 12. And before we knew it, we had our own theater company called Kahuna Players.
Rosalind Cauthen:Then we changed it to Kahuna Collective and we did work at, at theater project and creative Alliance and arena players and even center stage. And we would even go out of town to some conferences and stuff and create work together. And, and I loved it. We were specifically doing black theater. You know what I mean?
Rosalind Cauthen:Like black playwrights and we're doing experimental work and we're creating some of our own work. And we were pushing those interdisciplinary boundaries where we were doing poetry mixed with dance and spoken word and like characters and just like throwing it all together and creating shit. And it was fun. It was fun. It was interesting.
Rosalind Cauthen:It was engaging. We weren't doing it for the dollar. You know, we were barely making any money. We just like, I remember a theater project. The first show we did, let's say the, to rent the house, if it might've been like $1200 for the weekend, we did like Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Rosalind Cauthen:Right. So let's just say it was $1200 We couldn't come up with that. So what they could do is just take the money off ticket sales. They're like, okay, we're not gonna, we're not going to ask you to spend any money upfront. Just sell as many tickets as you can.
Rosalind Cauthen:We'll take our ticket money off of the top and then whatever is left is yours. Right. And sometimes we will be left with like $2 or $300 Try to split it between 8 people and trying to get business cards printed and start our website. You know what I mean? But, after a while, what eventually happened is everybody grew up.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like we were all undergrad grad students at the time. We kept Kahumba artists, Kahumba players running for, I would say a good 8 years. And a lot of the people in the company started to get married, have babies, get full time jobs. And so the idea that we're 20 somethings running around rehearsal 10, 11 o'clock at night after everybody got off work, you know, it just wasn't working for people's life and schedule anymore. And it was probably one of the hardest things I had to do was to just like, disband the group and say, like, We started this because we had a purpose and an intent in mind.
Rosalind Cauthen:And because we enjoyed and we appreciated doing work together, we were this sort of like, experimental group of black artists who were coming together and really exploring things. And they're almost like, became like this family we were building. And then towards the end, that last year or 2, it started to just feel really hard. You know what I mean? Like it was hard to get people to come out to rehearsal.
Rosalind Cauthen:It was hard to sell the tickets. Like everything was a struggle. Everything was a battle. And I just had to go, let's, let's stop. Let's not do this anymore because it doesn't feel good.
Rosalind Cauthen:You know, it's not bringing us anything. We just aren't like tired, tired all the time. And, we weren't getting a lot of fulfillment and satisfaction out of it anymore. So it, it, it went defunct for a little while, but, you know, I feel like everything has its time and its place, and that was the time and place for that.
Rob Lee:Yeah. That, that, that, that's a really good point. Thank you. Because there's a few things that I, I take out of a few of the items you, you said there that I think I definitely want to emphasize, because I felt them when you were saying them. One that sticks out is sort of just to paraphrase kind of being available, you know, being around and I guess persistence might be, but also just being around.
Rob Lee:And I've I've had folks, in in film. At one point, I wanted to do some acting and I'm not an actor. I took up a lot of space. Not an actor. But, you know, I I talk with, you know, casting directors and folks in film, and they're like, you know, you showing up, being there on time.
Rob Lee:That's a piece of it, a big piece of it, and sort of doing these things. And I've taken this approach of finding these opportunities. As an Aquarius, I call it riding the wave. I just ride the wave. It's just like I'm available, and then, you know, kind of building that up to get that name out there and get that sort of exposure and experience, really.
Rob Lee:And then from there, having that experience, you start to refine it of what really fits and what makes sense. And the last thing I'll say, and it touches on sort of that that last portion you were describing as far as, like, that that challenging decision there, When I when when things in doing this and and doing podcasts, and I've been a podcaster for 15 years, and when it gets to that stage where it's not as fun or not fulfilling, you you don't wanna do it. You don't feel inclined to do it. I've had cohosts, and I'm really into the thing that I do. I'm really into it.
Rob Lee:And sometimes other folks are maybe into it at a to a lesser degree or in a 2 or 4 different reason. And it's just like, you can tell you can tell that that energy isn't there and that sort of, like, involvement isn't there. So it's like, let's not fake it. We can do something else. We can disband this and start something else that might fit better or not do any of this at all.
Rob Lee:And, you know, it's like I say to folks before we do these interview the interviews, because folks have a lot of nerves sometimes. It's like, oh, I gotta talk about my work? Yeah. It's just a conversation. That's that's all it is, and kinda bringing it down that is is not rarefied.
Rob Lee:It's not an exam or anything along those lines. It's it's to be fun. It's to be, you know, engaging.
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah. Yeah. No. Thank you for that. Yeah.
Rosalind Cauthen:When it gets to feel like you're pulling teeth and you're dragging people along and almost forcing people into doing stuff, it's like, yeah, it's not worth it. It's not like there's too much of my time trying to get other people excited and engaged about this thing. And, and this is the thing about me as an artist, and I've been trying to reconcile this with myself recently in this new new ish position that I'm in as a, as a leader of a school is that I really enjoy bringing opportunities to people and providing opportunities like, Hey, I got this really great play that's coming up. This is an awesome role. I think you would be great in it.
Rosalind Cauthen:What do you, what do you want to do? Like, I'm trying to provide those opportunities, but if people don't want them or aren't interested or aren't available or whatever's going on in their life, then there's no need for for me to to push it if they're not there with it. So
Rob Lee:Yeah. I I agree with that so so much. And, especially in, you know, I'm my own booker. I do all of these different things, so sometimes I have to put on different hats, sometimes a fedora, sometimes like a do rag, but I I I'm having different conversations and taking in different perspectives, and it's just like, if you don't wanna do this, we won't have to because, you know, sometimes when I'm I'm getting in and trying to book certain folks, it's just like, alright, bro. You've kinda rescheduled this 6 times.
Rob Lee:Because it was like, this is part of a batch of interviews I was doing, you know, 4 months ago. Now I'm on to something else.
Rosalind Cauthen:Right.
Rob Lee:So in that, you know, it's it's sort of a good trans transition point here. Let's talk about sort of that the transition from, you know, theater, specifically, like, Center Stage to, you know, BSA, Baltimore School For the Arts. What were, what what was that transition like? What what what led to that transition, if you will?
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Of course. So, you know, BSA has such an amazing reputation in in Baltimore City.
Rosalind Cauthen:And when people come to BSA, they tend to stay for a really long time. So the person who was in the position before me was like well known in theater. He was the head of the theater department, here at BSA for many years. Actually, since the school, started, he was the head of the theater department. So he was retiring, And there are all these job postings coming out, you know, about this, this head of the theater department, position being open at BSA.
Rosalind Cauthen:All my friends, colleagues, different people I know are hitting me, like, hey, you should apply for this job. This would be really great for you. I'm like, what? Like, I'm working at professional theater. I also, so I taught as an adjunct professor, for a really long time as well at Towson University for about 13 years.
Rosalind Cauthen:So at the same time, while I was on this track of, being the head of community programs and education at Center Stage, I was an adjunct professor at Towson, and I had developed a number of classes. Like, I found my little niche, and my niece was cultural diversity in theater, but that's what I wanted it to be. So I had developed a course on African American theater. I developed a course along with my mentor on contemporary women in American theater, and I was teaching this sort of general course for non majors called, just cultural diversity in American theater. I really thought I wanted to be a college professor, in theater at, at one point in my life.
Rosalind Cauthen:So anyway, I'm doing those things. People are sending me this job at BSA and I'm like, I want to go teach you at high school. Like I taught middle school, you know, whatever amount of years ago. I don't, I don't want to be doing that. And they were like, no, you don't understand.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like, BSA is a very special school, and I know about BSA. It does some, you know, projects and stuff in connection, with Center Stage here at BSA. But I was like, I don't know. And then the head of the school at the time, Doctor. Chris Ford reached out to me specifically and was like, Hey, he and I had met before.
Rosalind Cauthen:He's like, Hey, I have this position open. I really, really, really want you to apply. Why don't you come to the school and do a visit? Just come visit, just come do a tour, just come to the school. And I have to tell you, Rob, I came to visit the school and I fell in love with the place.
Rosalind Cauthen:I was like, Oh my gosh, this is special. Like maybe I do want this job. So I applied and I got the head of the theater department position. That was 9 years ago. I led the theater department for 5 years.
Rosalind Cauthen:And then the position came up before head of school and what's interesting. And this has been my experience pretty much my whole life, that their leadership qualities and things that other people see in me that I don't always see in myself. And so what I started to hear from people that understand is that when Doctor. Ford hired me to be the head of the theater department, He had in mind all along that I would be the head of the school that I would run the school. He never told me, Like he would drop little hits sometimes.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like, have you ever thought about getting your certification to be like a school leader? Like, no, I don't want to do that. Maybe you should, maybe I was like, okay.
Rob Lee:You should update your signature a little bit to include this title. I was like, what?
Rosalind Cauthen:Like, wow. Talking about Doctor. Ford. So during the pandemic, he, when he did decide to retire, he really laid it on thick. He was like, you are the one, you are the one who runs the school.
Rosalind Cauthen:I need to get your stuff together, come on and do it. And just like the decision to even apply for the head of the theater department, I was reluctant, but other people kept pushing me in my life. Like, no, you can do this. And so, sometimes we have to be open to what other people see in us. Right.
Rosalind Cauthen:That maybe we don't see. And so, he would give me a lot of school wide, projects or activities to work on. And I never could understand why, but every time he gave me something, I did it and I crushed it. Right. That's again, a thing of like showing up.
Rosalind Cauthen:He's like, you know, we need some help with someone organizing the, the, the black history month. Okay. Got it. I need someone to help with this. Okay.
Rosalind Cauthen:I got you. So I was doing these school wide things. So I, before I realized it, I was firmly in this world of arts education and arts administration, and had put some of my own personal practice as an artist director, performer to the side. And that troubles me sometime until I started to realize something recently about selflessness. And it makes me even a little emotional when I talk about it, which is in my mind and in my dream, I was going to be this big time director, producer, you know, even locally here in Baltimore that I wanted to branch out and do some stuff in Philly and DC, you know, New York.
Rosalind Cauthen:Maybe I was, I thought that was my trajectory, like professional theater, like, like doing my own thing. And I was invested in it, but I think there is a greater purpose for my work and that I can look at it as a loss that I don't get to do my own personal art practice, or I could look at it as, like, a value add in the sense of, like, being in this type of leadership position, I'm able to make art opportunities happen for 427 students, you know, that is not always just about me. It's about me being a vessel to support these other dreams around me. Particularly when I think of my young black students who, so I'm the 1st black person to run this institution of letting them know anything is possible. Any dream that you have, any place that you see yourself, Kamala Harris, the next VP, the next president, you see yourself there.
Rosalind Cauthen:Yes, that's you. You can do that. So I see myself as this vessel, this living, walking example of, of someone who, who had never looked like me before had the opportunity to do this, that now I can. And also not just the arts experiences, I'm able to provide opportunities for our 427 students, but also the multitude of staff members that we have, you know, it was really important to me that I'm supporting the staff and their dreams, whether it's like helping them find money to go off to a conference or a particular artist that they want to study and work with and providing funding to do that, or providing space for them to take kids on a field trip to DC, to see this museum, like whatever it is like I can support my own dreams coming true, or I can support this entire community of people in their dreams. And so like, I'm, I'm finding a way to reconcile that and, and, and be okay with that and actually be proud of that.
Rob Lee:Yeah. That's that's that's just so great, and it aligns. Like, you know, as I touched on earlier, been doing this for a long time, and the this particular podcast is about 5 years. It just hit 5 years. So 2 thirds of my time as a podcaster, I was doing my own thing.
Rob Lee:And in doing this and sort of the nature of it, put all of my stuff on the back burner, sort of, hey. I wanna do this. I wanna do this movie podcast. I wanna go out and travel for this con and so on. And this takes takes precedent.
Rob Lee:And at times when I am kinda stuck and I'm kinda feeling that weird way or trying to fit things in, you know, whether it be sort of educational opportunities to to do that side of things or to be involved in events. It's always sort of this shift, and I'm I'm taking from sort of sort of myself. But then I have to think about it. I was like, okay. Let's go through the let's go through the schema.
Rob Lee:How does this, like, serve the community? How does this align with your values? Where does it fit, and how does it fit? And once it passes that, it's always sort of a good feeling even when it's sometimes you're navigating different personalities and different schedules and sometimes these these different things that are just there that could cause those hiccups, it's it's that reset and sort of me getting hooked, I I I look at it sort of differently. That it's not, hey, I'm sacrificing and giving up my thing.
Rob Lee:I I think there's an opportunity for for this area which I think is emerging, you know, as far as podcasting. And then the folks who are here who are often look like me and you who are told, oh, your story doesn't matter. Your art doesn't matter. You know, like, I'm helping to at least the intent is to help them to get their stuff out there, you know, their conversation in a true sense in addition to their work, you know, and not trying to make it seem like, hey, it's just about what you do and why you matter. It's like, no.
Rob Lee:I think you as a full person matter. Your work is just a piece of it. And a lot of times, I find that, you know, especially where we're at, we have got BSA, obviously. We have Micah. You know, these are the first time someone's actually asked a lot of these young artists about their work, and a lot of times it's coming on this podcast.
Rob Lee:And I feel a lot of responsibility in, you know, providing a good platform and a a good space to help them share their story authentically and as fully as they would like.
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah. That's awesome. No. Thank you for that. Thank you for doing that and for working with our young artists at BSA in that way as well.
Rosalind Cauthen:We truly appreciate it.
Rob Lee:Absolutely. Yeah. I gotta I gotta ask you this, because, so I I have, like, a long history, with BSA. I was, at one point, I wanted to be an illustrator, and I'm I'm a podcaster now. So I was just I it was just one of those things.
Rob Lee:I wasn't good enough. And when I was when I was younger and I just didn't have the the system around. But at one point before going to, I think, City College, BSA was on a short list of potential places to try to get into, right, and to have the opportunity to come back as an adult and have some sort of impact. And that way, I was just like, wow, this is, you know, this is really cool and this is unexpected and this is a new thing. But the thing that stuck out to me, the experience that stuck out to me was sort of every week going into the building, going into the school, and just just the hustle and bustle, but it's an energy, a creative energy, just folks collaborating and whether it be, you know, with the faculty, with the students.
Rob Lee:And it's still a high school, obviously, and you still have, like, sort of what what is it? Gen z? But you you have, like, this collaborative energy. It's palpable. Could you describe, like, that that first time you stepped into the school and sort of like what that energy was like and how you feel like now, like, you know, years and and being there, like how has it changed and just describe those feelings.
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah. No. That's it. This is a great question. So, you know, the founders of this school 45 years ago, cause we're about to be in our 45th anniversary, this upcoming school year, they really knew what they were doing.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like they really took their time and designing the school and how it would run and the layout of the school and the location of the school with what is on which floors, like when I first came, like, woah, people ought to describe it as magical. They're like, woah, it feels magical here. Like even the, the, the, the, the style of the school, that being an old hotel, it's like Hogwarts, you get lost around here with the different interests. It's like, do I take the spiral staircase or go over here? What's the brownstone?
Rosalind Cauthen:What are all these different areas? Right. It's like a hodgepodge of a school building. Right. My first experience was breathtaking.
Rosalind Cauthen:It was like, I, you know, you come in and sometimes because the music department is on the 2nd floor, you hear the kids tuning their instruments or warming up or singing as you're going through the lobby. Then you went on the hallway and the theater kids are in the hallway because there's not enough room in the classrooms and you'll see 2 or 3 kids over here rehearsing a scene or a kid this way, doing a monologue and you walk by, you think they're talking to you, they're not talking to you. They're actually rehearsing in the hallway. The film kids running around inside, outside the building, picking up, you know, different things with the, Madison and Cathedral documentary that they're creating about the school. Over here where my offices are is the dance department.
Rosalind Cauthen:So, we have 3 dance studios, beautiful, stacked on top of each other. We do live accompaniment for every dance class. Like the energy you used the word earlier that I really liked the energy is palpable when you work, walk in it's, it's creative. It's youthful. You know, I've been working with youth for a long time now.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like I got my first teaching job when I was still an undergrad in school. So I was like, I don't know, maybe 19, 20, years old since I've been working with kids and this youthful energy, that I've been around for so long, I feel grateful about, because I think they keep me young in a way, like they keep me on my toes being around my students and walking through the hallway, hearing their slang and asking them, wait, what does that mean? What's an app? You know, explain to me what an op was, you know, the, the, I still can't keep up with their music. Like, like, I don't know what kids are listened to these days.
Rosalind Cauthen:I'm like a little yachty. What's a little yachty. Who's this? I don't know these people, sexy red. What's she talking about?
Rosalind Cauthen:I don't know what I'm saying. But black being in this sort of youthful creative space, it is a space that feels, inviting. It feels diverse. It feels like a sense of home, honestly, like I walk through these doors, like for example, so the past 2 days I've been at this, retreat, this Leadership Institute for Baltimore City Schools. And then tomorrow and Friday, I have another one to go to for city schools.
Rosalind Cauthen:And today was the first day back in the building back at BSA. And I was so excited and so happy when I walked in. I was like, yay, I'm back in my building. I'm back in my building. And so, yeah, it's a feeling of it's all of that stuff wrapped up into 1.
Rob Lee:You're also like, man, I got that interview with that Rob guy. I gotta talk to him soon. Oh, damn it. No. That's that's that's great.
Rob Lee:It it is, you know, it's definitely one of those things where in in doing it, you know, spy, you know, first, like, teaching gig. Right? And going there, I had all types of nerves and so on, and you're you're you're so so on point when it comes to the repute reputation piece of it where, you know, I have a few I have a few friends I've interviewed who are faculty and so on, and they're like, what's going on, coworker? I was like, something. Or just just reaching out to folks about, you know, what do you think and sort of and and sort of getting that feedback and seeing the I've done this and and people appreciate and they get it.
Rob Lee:But when I mentioned that I'm also doing that and I had any, you know, relationship with BSA, that is just, like, elevates it because of the standard that's there and because of the folks that have who who are there, who are the next generation and folks who have matriculated through those holes over the, you know, nearly 5 decades. You know, I always go higher. You know, it's just like it and it's it's important. It's a prestige attached to it.
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you being a City College grad, I mean, I know you feel the same way. Like when I was in the meetings that I was in this week for BCPS, you know, I was with Principal Harcombe, you know, from City and the Principal of Poly, like we're all in the same network. So it was BSA, City, Poly, Western, where like the citywide choice schools, you know, and sometimes Rob, I do, I feel bad about that because there's some inequity in Baltimore City Schools.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like the experience that a student is going to get coming to a BSA or a city, how different it is if they're coming from. Edmonson or NAF or maybe even digital Harbor, although they're, they're making some, all the schools are making improvements, but there is a hierarchy, of these choice schools like BSA and Citi and Poly. And I don't, I don't know what that's all about because I didn't create it. You know, there are lots of things about our educational structure that I questioned, you know, but I just, all I can say is that I feel thankful for myself and my staff and my students and what we're able to create this little kind of safe Haven of artistry. There are not a lot of places like it in the city or even in the nation.
Rosalind Cauthen:Like one thing that's been interesting to me since I have been in this position, or even since I've been at BSA, we always will get, like, contact from, other districts or other states saying, hey, we want to start a school for the arts and we want to model it after BSA. Can you help us? You know, like people will recognize like BSA in LaGuardia. And, there's another school out in California art. Well, no art school in California.
Rosalind Cauthen:I'm not thinking of right now that people will name, but like there's a group in Arizona that was trying to create an art school. There's a group in Chicago that did create an art school called shy arts. And they would, come here to see what we were doing at BSA. And they would actually pay for folks from BSA to come out to Chicago and see what they were doing and give them feedback. And they're, I'm feeling for them because they're experiencing some pretty serious funding issues right now.
Rosalind Cauthen:There's a group in New Mexico. There's a group of BSA alumni in Atlanta who are trying to start an Atlanta school for the arts and they want to model it after BSA. So again, nothing that I created. I feel thankful to stand on the shoulders of these giants who created this place and keep the legacy going and bring my own flavor and style to it. But it was created in a way with a really solid foundation.
Rob Lee:So this is sort of, like, I guess, the the last, like, real question that I I have, before we move into the rapid fire ones. Sort of, like, the I I saw the the motto. Right? That BSA is a is the place where art changes, change kids' lives. Could you speak on sort of that commitment and that motto and and sort of where that applies?
Rosalind Cauthen:Yeah, absolutely. So we were recently looking for a new foundation director because BSA exists because we have a special partnership with Baltimore city schools, where we have an MOU or memorandum of understanding with city schools that provide some funding for our specialized arts program. And then we have a nonprofit 501 C3 foundation. That's raising about, $1,500,000 a year to help bring in professionals such as yourself, right? Our, our artists that we're bringing in from the community to teach the students because they are working artists.
Rosalind Cauthen:Right? So the city schools, there's a paper on that. Our foundation pays for it. And so we were going through this process of finding a new foundation director and the question came up, can we really quantify and qualify that, that we're changing kids' lives? Cause that's a lot that, that we're changing kids' lives.
Rosalind Cauthen:Right. And, and, and talking with board members and other folks about it. There's a part of me that's like, I don't know if we're doing all of that. Like the kids come to us with a lot of talent. They have to audition, they got a lot blown themselves already.
Rosalind Cauthen:And we just sort of add to that and enhance that in some ways, but hearing some of these kids' stories and some of these parents' stories at BSA, I think we are transforming kids' lives. Like I really do. And I just think it is that time of their lives when they were in high school that 14 to 18, and they're looking for their passion and they know a little bit about a little something and they start to hone in on their skills a little bit more and get a little bit more serious about what they want to be doing. It's a very influential time in a young person's life when they're in high school. And so that influence that we're able to have, and that they're able to, on a daily basis, work with working professional artists who are still in the field doing their thing, and that the level of high level of expectations that we have for our students and the drive and ambition that we put into them towards the Juilliard's and the NYU's and even the UMD full ride, Linehan scholarship at UMBC, like whatever it is, we're really pushing them and we tell them, this is what we expect of you.
Rosalind Cauthen:And so they meet that expectation. So in those ways, I think we are transforming their lives. Like I watched them from 9th grade to 12th grade. And they come in as these like, like really innocent, unsure of themselves, not confident, little odd, lanky, quirky. Don't know what to do with their body and their arms.
Rosalind Cauthen:And then I see them when they're 18 on that stage about to graduate in their full confidence as leaders, as artists going to these great universities that can speak for themselves and advocate for themselves and their fellow students. I went, I go, we, we, we did something, we helped do something and we're not doing it. We're helping, you know, to do something with these kids in their lives. And so I'm just glad to be a part of that process, but knowing that it is not about, we're not saviors, we're, we're, we're conduits. We are, facilitators of knowledge and collaborators that inspire inspiring our students, but that they come as full whole human beings.
Rosalind Cauthen:You know, we're just doing whatever we can to add to it.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. It's a great place for us to close out, sort of on the main the main conversation. I got one question I'm gonna ask you before we wrap. Okay. What was your favorite non arts related subject in school?
Rosalind Cauthen:Oh, that's easy. English. Oh my gosh. I loved English. I wanted to be a writer.
Rosalind Cauthen:I, when I first went to undergrad, I was an English major for a hot second, like a semester. And I'm like, I'm tired of reading dead old white guys. For me, this is I don't need to be an English major, but definitely English followed closely by history.
Rob Lee:Thank you. That that is that is great. I wanted to take the final moments here to, 1, thank you for spending some time with me today and, and to, just tell the folks where to check out BSA, website, social media, that sort of thing, and we'll close
Rosalind Cauthen:out. Yes, absolutely. So you can follow us at baltschoolarts on Instagram, baltschoolarts. Find us, go to our website, bsfa.org. Reach out to me.
Rosalind Cauthen:My contact information is there. Drop me an email. I'm never too busy to respond to community folks who want to engage with BSA. And thank you, Rob, for engaging with me and with our students, and I look forward to what's gonna come next for you and your career as well.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I'm gonna again thank the principal, principal Ross, the principal from the Baltimore School For the Arts for coming on. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just gotta look for it.
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