Welcome to the Truth in His Heart. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for tuning in to my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. I'm not going to draw this out much further, get a little bit more animated, you know, I'm gonna draw some conclusions. I hope you like those pen and pad illustration puns, because I have my next guest, an illustrator and cartoonist who blends cartoonish and realistic elements in his unique absurd realism style, engaging in projects from murals in New York and Los Angeles to an album cover for, Blueprint's Falling Down.
Rob Lee:He's the co creator of Poptober Sketchbook, a comic and zine which features essays, interviews, and numerous collections of ink drawings that showcase black and POC punk and punk adjacent artist. Please welcome Southside Frank. Welcome to the podcast.
South Side Frank:Thank you. Thank you, Rob. Good to be here. Good to
Rob Lee:have you here. Good to have you here. And, you know, I like when I get a referral, and then, you know, we do the interview we we were able to connect, and then I can already see, right, like, you're gonna be one of the good ones. I can already see it. I already have the energy, and as I like to always say, since we're on this video, alright, thank you for wearing your glasses.
South Side Frank:Oh, yeah. Well, I was like, should I wear them? Should I not wear them? But somebody said I look studious in some in my glasses, so I got represent. You know?
Rob Lee:I put on tiny glasses whenever I do anything arts oriented. These are my, like, you know, you know, quasi iconic they're kinda expensive, but quasi cool guy glasses?
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Oh, man. I should've worn my tiny glasses.
Rob Lee:We'll do a wardrobe change. Word. So so thank you so much for for making the time, and, you know, as we as we go on, I like to start off and some people say level set, but I like to really, like, you know, let the the guest really present who they are. I find a lot of times I'm talking to folks who, you know, aren't able to say who they are and how they wanna say, you know, who they are and all of that and describe their work in a way that feels authentic sometimes. And then in other instances, I get the, you know, online bio, I get the artist statement, and inevitably, it almost never fails, something is missing.
Rob Lee:So I wanna open it up and give you the space to introduce yourself tell us a little bit about yourself and your work.
South Side Frank:Okay. Okay. What's up? I'm Frank or or, also known as Southside Frank, a little moniker that's stuck, you know. And, I'm an artist from Columbus, Ohio.
South Side Frank:I've been doing this thing for like, professionally for maybe like, I don't know, 6, 7, 8 years. And, I'm still learning and growing am a freelance artist. You know, I work for commissions. And I also, you know, my other gig is to, is art related, because I make patterns for giant murals that get painted in New York and LA. You know?
South Side Frank:And, yeah. I mean, that's the gist of it. You know, I, just kinda like feeling my way out here, you know, get my get my feelers out and looking for inspiration and just trying to stay consistent and driven.
Rob Lee:I love it. I love it. And, you know, as a as a person who is, interested in illustration, I was I was really interested in comics, there's a there's a version. Right? There's a universe.
Rob Lee:Maybe it's one of those ones that's been pruned off where I'm a comic book artist instead of a podcaster, and I kinda chose that side of the fork in the road of creativity versus the other side, and I was able to, Drew doing this, revisit sort of illustration in in comics more as a writer than actually illustrating. So I'm always I'm always looking at you, you illustrator types. You you know, like, screw you. But also, it's envy. It's all envy and aberration, really.
South Side Frank:Well, you know, I started taking on the name artist and illustrator, but I looked at it I mean, it's still like a recent development in my eyes even though I've drawn all the time or painted all the time, but like to really be completely focused on it. And I just started doing this, sticking with this because everything else would suck. Like, I'm like, I ain't doing that. I ain't doing that. I ain't doing that.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:Yeah. I I think when you you find a thing that you're interested in and that it it it it satisfies you, you know, it's something that you gotta do. You know what I mean? It's something that you have to just chase to see, like, alright. Let me let me see how far I can go with this.
Rob Lee:Is this truly a thing or is it, or am I just flirting with it? You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, I'm not trying to, like, be so self deprecating, but, man, I looked at everything else. I'm like, gotta stick with this right now.
South Side Frank:I gotta make it work, you know, because nothing else is working, you know?
Rob Lee:I I've been doing, a podcast this particular podcast coming up for 5 years, as we're recording this, and I've been a podcaster for about 15. I still don't know if I'm good at it. You know what I mean? It's it's kind of that thing of because it matters, you're always your hardest critic, you're always questioning, but you wanna stay at it. It's it's an obsession almost.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. That's the word. That's the word right there. Obsessed.
South Side Frank:I'm obsessed. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So, and let's talk a little bit about, like, the beginning of sort of the creative journey because, you know, I got a little bit, maybe it was written by you, who knows, but I got a little bit about this background of yours that goes back further. So tell me, you know, further than like in the last, you know, few years, as you were touching on, like, really, you know, the work that you've been been doing over the last, like, you know, 6 to 7 years. So talk a bit about some of those early instances where, even, like, looked at art, that you even considered creativity as a potential outlet? Because I I see, you know, Columbus College of Art and Design in your background and some other stops along the way. So I wanna, like, open that up again.
Rob Lee:Where does the journey sort of
South Side Frank:begin for you? Okay. I mean, I guess when I was a kid, because I've been drawing and interested in art since I was a kid. I mean, even then, like, my friends were creative types too. I mean, I look back and, like, it's all I've always surrounded myself around people like that.
South Side Frank:Yeah. But, yeah. My my father, he drew. He passed away when I was a kid, but he, he drew and painted, and he was like, you know, hardworking dude. And, you know, he kinda put it his art to the side for, you know, his family.
South Side Frank:But I grew up learning that he wanted to be an architect at some point, you know. And, you know, he was in, he was in Vietnam, but he had like this, journal, this this hard hardcover book with black pages that he would write and draw in. And he had his cartoons in it and he's like, you know, putting his thoughts about the war and the situation and stuff. But it had these funny cartoons all along the writing, you know, which is like contrast with the seriousness of what he's writing. And, I don't know.
South Side Frank:That was always like, like, yeah,
South Side Frank:the most influential thing to me. And then, you know, I watch
South Side Frank:mad TV, like so much TV. Yeah. Like, shameful come out of TV. I was raised via television, you know what I mean? So, I'm a definitely a idiot savant when it comes to that type of stuff.
South Side Frank:And, you know, Looney Tunes and Disney and and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, Looney Tunes
South Side Frank:and Disney and,
South Side Frank:and, and, I remember I had my first friend, Kelly, yeah, she had,
South Side Frank:she drew 2, but she had like,
South Side Frank:this Disney book of Mad Thick, you know? Was like, I when I went to art school, they was calling that one of the Bibles, the art, you know, or whatever, animation. And lo and behold, I got it again, you know, like, as an adult, you know, it's like, it's weird to me, like, how how this book was so influential, you know? Yeah. I might be running off track.
South Side Frank:I forget what I was talking about. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
South Side Frank:And, so yeah. I you know, yeah, I drew all the time, you know, kids in school. Hey, can you draw on me? Or or the my or they always want like, you know, some hood cartoons, like a pit bull smoking a blunt in a jeep or something like that. Hey, I'll be yummy.
South Side Frank:Or, oh, can you do this tattoo for me? Like, y'all ain't never gonna get this tattoo done. You know? I've got so many tattoo drives people. That's
Rob Lee:really funny. And and I and I and I would say I so this is the thing I used to do back in the day. So as we're recording this, we're wrapping up sort of the season of X Men 97, right? So, you know, setting that stage, I'm I'm 39, so
South Side Frank:Okay.
Rob Lee:You know, of that era where it's just like, yo, Saturday morning, car teams, I was making choices, son. I was just like, yo, academics? Nah. X men, that's what we're doing. So in class, I used to charge pea I used to draw pictures of Wolverine, and then I would, have people pay me for the pictures.
Rob Lee:I would sit there and sketch instead of I I I was like a I was a good student. Right? You know, like a solid B without trying. I never really read or studied or anything along those lines. It's just up here.
Rob Lee:So I would get through, you know, my test, and then I would start drawing on whatever. At one point I did a comic, and at the other point, you know, I would just always just draw pictures of Wolverine, and I just remember one day, teacher came by, she took my comic that I was drawing. I was inking, writing, pencil, all of it, and pitched it. I was so hot. Yeah.
South Side Frank:Because she was
Rob Lee:like, you're disrupting my class. I think she had a whole economy going on.
South Side Frank:Were smarter than me because I was being a nice guy. You know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, I'll do I'll do this drawing for you. You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:And someone
South Side Frank:else told me they grew up hustling their drawings
South Side Frank:to,
South Side Frank:kids in in school, man. I wish I did that. But, you know, it is what it is. I guess I'll you know, I did get better at it after a while. But yeah, I remember making cart making my own comics as a kid.
South Side Frank:Like one was I I look back like, damn, that's weird that I did that. Like it was about a cat who was an alcoholic who couldn't keep a job and he'd be drinking on a job and he always get messed up, you know, and get hurt, like, brutally damaged or whatever by a lawnmower or something like that. I'm like, that's weird looking back at that.
Rob Lee:This this cat and his hair brained skinned, I will absolutely be talking to you after this. I have an idea to get your way.
South Side Frank:Okay. Okay. Let's get it.
Rob Lee:So, you know, you you said, you know, the TV was a piece of it, and, you know, some of your your your dad's drill my dad's also a Vietnam vet, so that's that's the thing. Still with us, so really fortunate and happy about that. And, you know, some of the the the art stuff parents were definitely around and supporting that. They have no idea what I do now. They're like, Yeah, you want a radio, right?
Rob Lee:And I was like, Honda. So talk about some of the artists, the the creators, because I think a lot of times, we have influences, right, that might not be specific to the job or the mediums in which we're working in. Like when I'm looking at interviews, I'm going when I'm looking when I'm prepping for interviews, I'm going through through books. I'm going through other interviewers. I'm going through, like, just different ways to get to a question and get something out of a person.
Rob Lee:So for you, it may be isolated to sort of visual, but for you, who are some of your influences? Who are those artists and those creatives that had an impact on your world and on your on your work and potentially your world?
South Side Frank:Yeah. It's so many, right? Like, it's the list goes on. I mean, like, someone who I've been thinking about lately though, and I've like, lately as in, like,
South Side Frank:a few years, is,
South Side Frank:this cat named Dawoodania, a few years, is, this cat named Dawood Anya Buile. He did Brother Man. He was out of Philly. Mhmm. And, he he did a comic, him and his brother, did a comic called Brother Man.
South Side Frank:And this was like in the early nineties, you know? Yeah. And I forget how I learned about its existence, probably TV. But like, but like, and he I mean, what he was doing, that was the first time ever seeing somebody who looked like me doing something like that. And I'm like, what?
South Side Frank:I gotta have I gotta get my hands on this, you know? And I was in the comic books. I would go to the local some of the local comic book stores. And at the time, man, they didn't know what I was talking about, you know? Right.
South Side Frank:What diversity is in in the comic industry and what that looks like and not these, like, token characters and their favorite books and stuff the only guy that has, like, the only black superhero that
South Side Frank:got, electric
South Side Frank:powers, you know, and and, And, I never got my hands on it. But I think it it was through his Instagram. I learned that he was on there iteration of Brother Man, the character, his story, and stuff like that. And it was in color and these big old pages. Dude draws like dynamically and,
South Side Frank:you
South Side Frank:know, you can see a little hip hop graffiti style in it. And, it was I was just impressed, and I had to get it. And, you know, he it was just, I don't know how to put it into words, man, but it it just, like, I don't know, brought me back to my childhood maybe.
Rob Lee:Sure.
South Side Frank:But in a new way, like, he has a message in his stuff. It's not preachy, but it's it's it's meaningful. And I'm like, man, I wanna do stuff like that. You know? And not only that, he's, he's an interesting guy.
South Side Frank:You know, he's like, I don't know what you wanna call him, for lack of a better term, like Afrocentric or pro black. You know what I mean? And that mean a lot to me too. You know?
Rob Lee:I I I see that he's also an Aquarius. That means he's great because, you know, it's here.
South Side Frank:I'm just I don't know about all that.
Rob Lee:Let's let's let's let's in let's keep this going as friends now.
South Side Frank:Okay. Look. Hey. I hey, whatever it is, you know, hey, it's a if that's what it is, that's what it is, you know? But like, yeah.
South Side Frank:So, I mean, that's the one influence I've been thinking about a lot lately. And I was always into, like, like, you say you you did good in school, I was bad in school. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't trying to cause trouble, but I just didn't care, you know? And, I would I would cut school and this is some ultra nerdy stuff to me.
South Side Frank:Because I would cut school what's the other dude, man? Harvey Pecar.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
South Side Frank:And he's from Ohio, and he's an he was an awesome writer. And, that's the first time I've seen somebody just talk about their the the mundane, perspective in in their lives. You know? And little little pieces of that can be turned into something interesting. You know?
South Side Frank:Was like, oh, I got a ton of that. You know? I can relate to that.
Rob Lee:Yeah. It's it's it's definitely, you know, sort of a sort of a thing when you you see sort of a voice that you can connect with, a a sort of, like, this is this is the the medium, but it doesn't have to be like superheroes. It doesn't have to be done in a certain way. It's like these kind of regular people or regular stories or stories that I can relate to based on sort of your background, like, I I know very little about sort of I guess you guys are the Midwest. Right?
Rob Lee:You know, I guess Yeah.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. It's called the Midwest. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So I know
South Side Frank:I don't know why, but it is.
Rob Lee:So I know very very little about it, but, you know, it's it's one of those things where it's like what's the identity here? You you know, like, you know, Chicago. Like, oh, okay. Yeah. I know Chicago.
Rob Lee:It's like, oh, I know. But it's like, the only thing about Columbus I know or Ohio generally I know is, like, think the Browns play there. You know, they ain't looking the Browns from there or something. Right?
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
South Side Frank:It's it's definitely it's definitely about football. I mean, even even in Columbus, you know, they got, we got Ohio State. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
South Side Frank:the college
Rob Lee:and it's like a a
South Side Frank:cult when it comes to, you know, the football. But but I I guess what
Rob Lee:I what I was getting at well well, I'm what I'm trying to fumble through and get at is, like, sort of, you know, those are stories at least I think and maybe it's my own ignorance of not really having you know sort of that awareness of like sort of the community there because I hear there's a lot of, like, artists that are comic artists as a as a community there, you know, that
South Side Frank:Yeah. Low key. Yeah. Low key. Low key.
South Side Frank:And, I mean, you know, I don't know what is a big artist community. You know what I mean? But recent time. You know, I could be wrong. But there's a really well celebrated, comic, guy from here.
South Side Frank:It's Jeff Smith. He did Bone. You know? Yeah, I mean, off
South Side Frank:the top of my head, you know,
South Side Frank:I had to look too. But, there's some there's some people that are doing it now that I, that I'm, like, really in tune, like, picking up what they're putting down, like, Brian Moss. He's he's a he's like a mover and shaker doing things and stuff. And, there's, there's David and then Taylor Chu, Reagan, of course. You know?
South Side Frank:They're, like, trying to cultivate community with these people. You know what I mean? Yeah. But, I mean, outside of that is a whole bunch of other people too. You know, I I I'll buy they comics when I see them, but like the freestyle off the top of my head, I'm terrible
South Side Frank:with names, you know, I'd have to go through my boxes and all that.
South Side Frank:No, no, no, no. And But as far as Ohio
Rob Lee:or Columbus,
South Side Frank:not very different from a lot of
South Side Frank:other places
South Side Frank:in United States. You know what I mean? Like, big factories, that's their history, a lot of industrial type stuff. You know, gentrification going down everywhere. You know, a lot of little small towns, got meth and fentanyl problems.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? I just feel like, you know, there's strip malls and big fat roads with all these franchises up and going up and down them. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:I think I did see that, actually. I think I did see sort of, like you have this this list of these sort of major, quote, unquote, cities that are considered the hubs people are moving out of because they're being priced out of, and they're looking for, like, sort of the next tier is even expensive because of the recession and all of that different stuff. And so I was like, people are being priced out. When you look at, like, for a 1 bedroom, right, like, 1 bedroom apartment is 35100, it's like, yeah. You're out here.
Rob Lee:You know what I mean? And That's crazy. So folks are looking at, sort of, places that are on the come up. Now the thing that gets me, and this has nothing to do, because I got a I got a question I'm gonna ask you in a second that relates to kind of where we were talking at the sort of early stages of things, but, you know, getting a sense of the current climate, you know, we see it in different places. It's just like, you know, let's say you have a list of 5 different markets where a person can go, right, where a person can move.
Rob Lee:The first one, you're gonna be priced out. The second one and the third one, now you're being priced out because of the cost as well. So you're looking at that 4th 5th option, and Baltimore is, you know, where I'm based, moving into that sort of second option, and it's getting kind of expensive. More and more people are moving it. I've seen so many Virginia tags because it's probably cheaper than Virginia, the northern Virginia, and it's not DC, but it's close enough to New York and Philadelphia.
South Side Frank:Right. Right.
Rob Lee:And that's the thing. It's like, how close are you to one of the hubs? Well, okay, I'll just drive a little bit further. It's fine. You know, I can get my career off and make this, you know, this this bread or what have you.
South Side Frank:Yeah. They call it they call it, you know, the heart of it all Yeah. That Ohio, that's a little slogan or whatever. And I I mean, as sometimes, I think things are so small, but I've I've met people from all over the place here. Like, all over.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Some culture here. I mean, not like like New Orleans or something like that. But there there is some, and I guess the more people in a grade or whatever, you know, there's there's stuff happening, you know.
Rob Lee:I have this question that that I I like a lot. Like, you know, I mentioned the Aquarius thing earlier. Right? Because that's what I am, and we're we're one of the strangest groups in the whole zodiac or what have you. And I know when I encounter a nefarious because it's like, yo, we have some weird stuff.
Rob Lee:So but I think we we embrace it, right? We gravitate towards it, those unique things. And we're philanthropic, all these different things. But it's like knowing yourself, right? So how do you embrace sort of your unique traits, your your strangeness, if you will, as it relates to your work, Like, those things that make you unique to the work that you're making.
Rob Lee:Like, you you touched on a little bit with, Dawad's work, how that really resonated with you because, you know, you're I think you're a black man. You're a black man, so,
South Side Frank:you know I'm a I'm a I'm a 100% black. Ain't no ain't no mystery.
Rob Lee:So so that's that's the thing, and I and I would I would imagine it's it's seasoned and peppered in your work, whether it be from a perspective or even, you know, sort of, we've never met. Right? And being able to chat it up and knowing those things, those things is like, oh, that's actually a thing to joke about. That's actually a thing that's kinda funny because it's it's that experience, it's that the connection of being a black person. Like, sometimes, it's just, like, again, it's knowing yourself, like, I know that I'm competitive.
Rob Lee:I know that I am petty. Petty in a way that I want people to fail, but if you dare come against me, I Yeah. No. You know what it is. You know what's up.
Rob Lee:I got 17 diss tracks coming out. I got a producer making a song about you that everyone else go. Never mind. Never mind. We know where that's going.
Rob Lee:But,
South Side Frank:Right. What y'all know about Kendrick? What y'all know about Kendrick?
Rob Lee:But I think the thing is that and and and what I'm hearing is that, you know, you're you're sort of the the light heartedness, that sense of humor, however it might be, your sense of humor is yours. And that's that's the thing. Like, when I I do this, I I make these these not even these wild swings. It's just my perspective is this, like, I I think that chefs are jazz musicians, right, in the sort of improvisation of it all, and we have these types of conversations, making those things, those connections that most people don't even see, or, or presenting in a different way through having all of these conversations. I remember having the experience, and I applied it to sort of the teaching gig I was talking about when we before we got started, And, I just remember I was observing, because I think it's really interesting to get that that feedback about what you do creatively from from a group of people.
Rob Lee:And I sat in, you know, on, like, a listening party for my podcast. I didn't say anything because my voice, obviously. Right? And I say something in the pod that's so corny and dumb, but it was funny, and people laughed at it. I was like, okay.
Rob Lee:That works. Write that shit down. And it was literally, like, it was one of the guys, he was like a major radio executive I was interviewing, and I was like, man, keep drop them jewels, man. It's like caramel falling in my mouth, and they were like, okay, that's really funny, and that's literally my sense of humor, and that's what I'm putting out there. My uniqueness is just me, just just being the real me in this podcast, And I would have to bet that's that's you when you're you're putting out your work.
South Side Frank:Yeah. And and and, and, you know, it's like you said, it's like knowing who you are. You know what I mean? Like, knowing what you bring to the table or whatever. Or wanting to share what you have, you know?
South Side Frank:And 2 people that are receptive and that's why I say competitiveness. I use that word. Mhmm. But, you know, it it could be thought of as a negative word. But, I think, there's room for everybody because everyone's an individual.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? Everyone has something unique to say to you know what I mean? To share. So there's always room. You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:So, yeah, I I just try to lead with
Rob Lee:that. It's it's one of the things, it's like and see, I'm gonna make it rap again. I'm gonna go back back to rap. It's not like, what is it, o 7, o 8, o 9, o Wayne. I don't need to be featured on everything.
South Side Frank:Right.
Rob Lee:Like, there's there's some feature gigs out there for other folks. Now, I'm not gonna turn it down, but, also, I'm, like, hey, have you talked to this person? Have you talked to this person? Maybe this person is more aligned with your sort of podcasting needs or what have you. Or making that referral if if it's like, hey, I don't know if this is quite a fit, but like when that when it's that opportunity to show out on them fools.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
South Side Frank:Go like,
Rob Lee:do it.
South Side Frank:You know,
Rob Lee:you're like, I still got this.
South Side Frank:Right, right, right.
Rob Lee:You show what? That's all.
South Side Frank:Yeah. You gotta show up and show out when it's your turn to shine. Yeah.
Rob Lee:A 100%. So
South Side Frank:Yeah.
Rob Lee:I wanna move into this this thing right here because I because I definitely wanna ask about absurd realism, but I got a question before that. So what what was that that draw in I I I see a lot of puns. You're just
South Side Frank:just Yeah. Yeah. I'm with it.
Rob Lee:What what was what was that initial draw for you to, like, illustration, cartoony, murals, to to the to the sort of visual, expression. It's like, you know, I I know there were some things that that were of interest to you, but what was that draw that you were like, alright, I gotta do this. This is this is really the the moment, if you will, the series of moments that this was, like, this was informative for you. This was, like, no, I gotta do this. This is gonna be a part of my life.
South Side Frank:You know, doing music, it gave a lot to me. You know? And I enjoyed it, and I like collaborating with people and things like that. But when I get to the business side of it, it makes me wanna throw up. You know?
South Side Frank:And, I started doing, like, leaning more on doing visual art, and it gave back to me a lot sooner. You know? And, it's not like music where, you know, you have to put on a per persona or be big. You can just, like, chill. At least how I see it.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? I don't have to perform in the same way. And the people that I meet, I can have, some, like, we have we touch on some kinda intellectual level. And, not to, like, diss anybody that rap or nothing like that. You know?
South Side Frank:But there is a lot of knuckleheads. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I was one too for the longest time. Yeah. But like, just I don't know.
South Side Frank:Just it like, it like, when I start doing more art, like, I I just saw it given back more back to me than than, toiling and and and music. So I was like, this is my lane. You know? I'm a be here. And, you know, I could do it till I'm old and gray.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? I mean, already gray. A little old, but all my mad people and, you know, I mean, drooling on my stuff. So, you know.
Rob Lee:I'm I'm trying to hang on. Like, when I get a gray, I plucks it. I don't care what
South Side Frank:No idea. You come back. I don't care
Rob Lee:about none
South Side Frank:of that.
Rob Lee:I don't believe it.
South Side Frank:I can't do nothing about it, man. I can't do nothing about it. I don't wanna use that just for men like that or beige in it. That's too obvious. You feel like Look,
Rob Lee:before I before I said, I'm just gonna go with this this this sort of Jason Statham stubble. It was just like, yo yo, bro, we're gonna put that badge in. I was like, no. I don't want that. Yeah.
Rob Lee:We can get a unit for you. I was like, I don't want that either. Like, can we we do something better? Can we can we do something? Can we do can we use
South Side Frank:your trade? Can we use your ability with razors?
South Side Frank:Right. Yeah, man. So, yeah. So, I mean, it to me, it's it's more longevity in it. And I can say more,
South Side Frank:you
South Side Frank:know, I can say a lot more. I mean, not that I couldn't through music, but, to me, you know, it's just my
South Side Frank:opinion that that
South Side Frank:there that that there's only so much you can say in, you know, in music, you know.
Rob Lee:But I think you're onto something there, and this is why. So this this is encroaching on my lane. Right? How many how many washed rappers I'm just gonna be an East Coast guy right now. How many washed rappers have a podcast now?
South Side Frank:Oh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah.
South Side Frank:Washed. I mean, I you know, I I wouldn't call washed if you, like, got your podcast popping and people are tuning in?
South Side Frank:But it's the shift, I guess.
South Side Frank:It's like, you know, doing something that has a bit
Rob Lee:more longevity than I can't be in these clubs. I can't be out here at, like, you know, 50 rapping about slinging rocks or whatever. It doesn't doesn't work the same. And and and again, it's not a knock. It's it's more of a I I struggle with this notion of sort of fame and notoriety.
Rob Lee:You know, people talk about don't don't diss the bag and someone getting the bag. It's like, I'm all for it, but a lot of times when you see these these sort of deals and and people doing that, it's like, was it a money grab or whatever you were doing creatively, what's in it? Like, I'm doing this because I'm interested in having conversations with people. It's not like, you know, because there have been some options. There have been some offers, and it's just like I have scruples.
Rob Lee:You know, I have things that matter to me, where, you know, it's it's a struggle. And then, you know, as as an educator in that sort of sort of lane, and then having, you know, these kids thinking, like, yeah, he's gotta do this. And it's just like, no, this person's already famous. Yeah. This is their second career, and trying to, like, make that distinguish distinguishment there.
Rob Lee:But and and it's and it's slightly different, like, you know, you you do something for a while, and I like the way that you put it, going back to the the sort of thing that you said, where, you know, it's a shelf life for some of these things. You know, like, one of the things I think of, like, what is the exit strategy for me from a career standpoint? Like, when I start having like, let's say I've had a laboring job. I don't I'd type on a computer all day. But if I had, like, a labor job, there's there's a certain shelf life there.
Rob Lee:I can't be you can't be you can't be operating at the same capacity in my fifties. You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:Big bags.
Rob Lee:Well, it's kinda kinda that, but across different areas and different mediums. So it's just knowing where you're fitting that, having a plan. But I just always think, like, maybe it's hokey, but trying to do it for the right reasons. That's sort of what my thing is always. So I'm reading in here, and I touched on it a little bit earlier, absurd realism.
Rob Lee:Can you elaborate on like what that means and sort of how it influences your artistic choices?
South Side Frank:Okay. So, I mean, yeah, I'll try. Like, Great. So absurd realism is what I'm calling my style. And it's more I guess you say you could relate it to the lowbrow art movement, you know, a lot of pop culture references and, you know, stuff that wouldn't necessarily go in the mainstream of, like, fine art or anything like that.
South Side Frank:But, on a deeper level, it's just my perspective, I think, how, I believe you know, a lot of things are backwards in this world. And, I'm trying to reflect it in in the cartoons or illustrations that I do. You know? And maybe someone might understand it, and, you know, some people won't. But, that's essentially what I'm doing.
South Side Frank:You know? Like, I guess most of us are. I mean, you could do, like, a more introspective thing and and, like, shoot that out into your work. Yeah. But, I ain't that vulnerable.
South Side Frank:You're not you're not the leader. Yeah. I'm like, look at look at this. Look at this fool. Look at this crap.
South Side Frank:Like, you know, look at this BS. You know?
Rob Lee:Just just wait. Like, you you were touching her earlier, like, maybe a few years. It's just like Yeah.
South Side Frank:It might it might happen. It might happen, man.
Rob Lee:Yeah. We we'll we'll absolutely be before we we wrap on the pod, we'll definitely dive back into that to help, you know, have some ears. I don't know how many people from Columbus or in the area listen to the pod, but
South Side Frank:Oh. You know, it doesn't Yeah.
South Side Frank:I'm I'm just yeah.
South Side Frank:I'm just trying to talk about my my books, me and Reagan's book. Right? You know? I mean, cool. Like, people come to the show too, you know, the
South Side Frank:I mean, I I know it'll be a
South Side Frank:nice little party. That's how I want you looking at it. It's a little new party. Oh, yeah. In the hood or whatever.
South Side Frank:So
Rob Lee:So tell tell me a bit, you know, because you we're definitely gonna talk about the books and, like, this this following question, the question after this one. So talk about your creative process currently as it relates to, like illustration, it relates to like, you know, sort of that that work or what have you. What is that conceptualization look like? What does the the process looks like, those sort of intermediate steps? And when do we get to that that final step where you're like, alright.
Rob Lee:I'm good with this.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Right now, a lot I think a lot of stuff I draw is, I'm I'm trying to write comics. You know? Like, so I'm doing a lot of character design. And, so I don't know.
South Side Frank:It's like it don't feel like nothing forced, but I I'd come up with characters that's, like, a little antihero. You know? And, or just regular Joes. And, there's tons of those out there. I'm a regular Joe, and I think I just, pull from that.
South Side Frank:And, and then I'd think of a story. You know? Like, oh, what's this person like, and what's their background? And it helps me develop the the the the visual. You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:Like, how it looks how this person looks. You know? And then, of course, I mean, just the nature of character design, you use stereotypes. You know? Not like racial stereotypes.
Rob Lee:Right.
South Side Frank:But but, like, well, I don't know if this is offensive to anybody. But, like, if I if I have a cop character, I might, you know, make him an anthropomorphic pig. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you recognize that that symbol.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? Sure.
South Side Frank:So but, but but, beyond that, maybe he has a maybe he's depressed. You know what I mean? And he lashes out on people because he hates himself or you know what I mean? Like, it's deeper than just some, officer friendly or, like, you know, the bad lieutenant or something like that. You know?
South Side Frank:Like, why is it this way? You know? So and then, you know, then I run to my iPad, sketch some stuff out, and redraw it and redraw it. Or sometimes it comes out perfect because I'm a genius. And then, and then and then, you know, like, it's funny because I was so anti iPad when they were when I saw students using them, when I was in art school not long ago.
South Side Frank:And, and then I graduated, and then the pandemic happened. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna get a Cintiq and animate on that like they had at the labs at school. I did end up getting one. But my nephew, he was like, you need to get an iPad. He was always in my ear body.
South Side Frank:You know, a real tech savvy dude, Austin. And, I was like, nah. Nah. Nah. I know what I want.
South Side Frank:Nah. That's not what I want. And then the pandemic happened, I got some of that bread that they was talking about. I was like, Matthew, like, tell me which iPad to get. And I've been using it ever since, man.
South Side Frank:It's crazy. But yeah. So that's why I use for my character designs.
Rob Lee:That's dope. It it almost reminded me of the Hannibal Barris joke when he was just talking about, like, his nephew always rags in his comedies, like, not funny, Hannibal.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Let's let's talk about, let's talk about sketchbook. Let's talk about October. Right?
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. October sketchbook.
Rob Lee:So for those who are undipped, unfamiliar, I don't know what it would be, but for those who are undipped and unfamiliar, let's talk about it. What was what was the inspiration behind it? Who who's it for? What's it about? Give us the give us the the t as it were.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Let's go. So, October was still is, online drawing challenge, on Instagram. And, Reagan Buchanan, she started it because, she was sick of Inktober, and the prompts that they have. And, she's very much a punk punk rock, you know, person or whatever.
South Side Frank:And, she just wanted to see some of that type of thing, use those as prompts Yeah. For her own thing. And I had 2 big, history buff, I believe. That's how I see it. Yeah.
South Side Frank:And, you know, and, you know, you know, I was in art school at the time. It was just weird. I don't know what you call that serendipity or whatever. But like, I had a a project But, like, I had a a project that was supposed to be a new drawing every day of the month. And, you know, Reagan was friends is friends with my brother.
South Side Frank:And my brother was saying, like, yeah, I can't I can't quite remember how it happened, but this how I remember it. But, like, yeah, Reagan's doing a thing. And I was like, oh, yeah, I wanna do that because that falls right in line with this project I got into.
Rob Lee:Right.
South Side Frank:And, and when I learned that it was about, like, the the the focus was on black and punk rockers. Yeah. Or and people of color. People who have been doing that genre music for years.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
South Side Frank:And, it was really good, you know, like I I really dug it because I'm into punk too, you know. And, so, you know,
South Side Frank:I think she the first
South Side Frank:time she might had all already had a list. I don't know. I can't remember. But, every time know. I can't remember.
South Side Frank:But, every time after
South Side Frank:that, you know, she's
South Side Frank:like, you wanna do
South Side Frank:it again? I'm like, yeah, I bet. Yeah. And, and interest started growing on the, Instagram and other people would draw the prompts.
South Side Frank:Yeah.
South Side Frank:And that was was dope. You know what I mean? Like, oh, y'all like to do this too, you know? But, yeah, so then the following years, we would like, talk about who we wanna see in Reagan's always got a whole bunch of bands and she she's ready to, you know, to to use and talk about. You know, I
South Side Frank:do too. I did too. And, we just kinda like met
South Side Frank:in the middle and come up with a new list. You know, give it some flare, promote it a little bit, you know, get heads ready, like, yeah, it's coming up again. And, you know, we showcase other people's drawings and, you know, I remember my sister who's just, like, really, she's creative in, like, ideas. You know? So why don't you come out with a book?
South Side Frank:I'm like, I guess. I don't know. And, and I mentioned it to Reagan. The next thing you know, we did a book. You know, a a zine, I guess.
South Side Frank:Because, I mean, that specifically, zines because that's like rooted in punk rock culture. You know, the whole DIY thing, getting the word out, you know, talking about this band and that band. Except we are showing drawings of these bands and giving you a little information about them. Also, we would write articles and then it turned into articles and interviews, you know, with different musicians and, you know, both of us have built relationships with other musicians,
South Side Frank:that
South Side Frank:we talk about and end up getting work from them too, you know? Like this community, you know, online, you know, and you beat them in person and go to their shows and stuff like that, you know.
South Side Frank:So it just like turning into something bigger and bigger every time. So, I think I'm
South Side Frank:really excited about it. It's unique, it's niche. I like I've I it. It's unique, it's niche, and like, and obviously there's other people doing stuff because, there's a movement, there's been a movement going on artistically with Black artists, just visual and all across the board. And, I like to think we're like contributing to what's happening now, even though there ain't no name on it.
South Side Frank:I call it Renaissance, real. You know, like, you can see evidence of it online, you know. But, so we've we've done one book, one zine, 2, Yeah, we got 3 now. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, I'm really excited about it.
Rob Lee:Yeah. No. No. It's it's it's great. And, you know, I had the the opportunity to become aware of Reagan at SPX last year, and then I interviewed Reagan, I think, in February of of this year, and she she raved about you.
Rob Lee:And, I was just like, I gotta talk to this Frank character, and, you know, because, you know, hometown villain. And, you know, I read I read things. And, you know, and and that's and that's sort of the thing, like, you know, seeing folks that kind of fit into, like, outside of that that sort of norm slide that are doing stuff that are doing things creatively that I admire, and I was just like, whatever it is, I I wanna support. However it works, I wanna support. I wanna be there to at least capture the conversation, get the insights, and help get that word out there about about that work because in the the initial sort of, like, Prezo, at SPX about about the book, it was just, like, about about the the the book that Ringed in and sort of, like, the work overall.
Rob Lee:Definitely, the historian component was there, and definitely the thing that really perked my ears up, and and I heard it from, like, sort of, you know, what you were describing there a moment ago. These artists, these musicians, these people from a scene and from a community that aren't getting their due, They aren't getting, you know, their stories out there and archived and covered. So, you know, taking from sort of this lack, you know, having Inktober, it's like, yeah, that's fine. You guys got that. That's your thing.
Rob Lee:We're gonna do our own thing and add that, and in it, that is punk rock.
South Side Frank:Yeah. It is. Completely punk rock. And, you know, it's not just I mean, like, like, that the spirit of punk lives, you know, and it's not just old school artists that we feature. There's a whole lot of new bands that have, punk influence, you know, people of color, black bands, musicians doing that same thing to have a heavy punk influence.
South Side Frank:And I'm learning about new stuff all the time, you know, as they happen. And, yeah, it's just it's just interesting to see. It it's interesting it's interesting to see what's happening. It's like what's expanding.
Rob Lee:It's the thing that you touched on earlier, black people on a monolith, and, you know, and there was a a podcast that I I used to do called Unofficially Black, and it was coming from this this this idea that a buddy and I, we would go see professional wrestling, and we would travel for it. We were in, you know, and I told you who I interviewed earlier. Right? And Mhmm. So and he was a black dude too.
Rob Lee:So we're we're talking about it and, you know, he was just like, yo, people always tell me this is years ago, probably 2018, 2017 when we we we started and and did that thing. He he was like, yo, whenever I tell people I'm traveling, go see this wrestling show, go do that, I'm told all the time, oh, black people don't do that.
South Side Frank:Yeah.
Rob Lee:And that's why we started a podcast. Yeah. So of, like, trying to, you know, demystify things that black people seem to like, but like in the closet, like, you know, for a long time, black people don't like anime. It's like, yo, when dude that did Dragon Ball passed, I just saw black tears. So let's let's keep it 100, you know?
South Side Frank:Real talk. Yeah. Yeah. Real talk. And, you know, I mean, you know, I'm I I don't think I'm being like, like exaggerating when I say black people is always there.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? At the start of somewhere, always, even in the places
South Side Frank:you wouldn't imagine, you know?
South Side Frank:And, like, you know, imagine, you know? And, like, you know, yeah, I guess, when you think of Ohio, you probably don't think of, like, black hog crackers. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:I do not.
South Side Frank:They're here. They've been here. They've been here. They've been here. You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:And then when you consider, like, the origins of certain music, Like, it's it's always a black American that had their hand in. And then they got taken and bastardized homogenized and repackaged and, you know, sometimes I I, you know, I say it jokingly, but I I don't wanna curse myself by repeating it all the time. You know? I be like, don't be the first don't ever be the first person to do something. You know what I mean?
South Side Frank:But, that's not necessarily true. Mhmm. I mean, you can always come back and, like, hey. I was there. You know?
Rob Lee:That's a that's a it's really timely that you mentioned that. Right? I saw this old clip that was unearthed from, was it, John Thompson? And he literally said that same thing in 1984.
South Side Frank:What's that?
Rob Lee:I don't wanna be the black first that, has, like, a NCAA championship or something. Yeah. So we he's, like, so this is 1984, so this is 40 years ago, you know what
South Side Frank:I mean?
Rob Lee:And Yeah. And he's just, like, oh, so, you know, just not good enough ever, and he's, like, that's what that's kind of denoting, that we were never good enough until this point, and I was the best to do it. And Yeah. It is something about that that sort of first. It's a it's a little bit of a sneak disc.
South Side Frank:Yeah. I mean, in my eyes, you know, when I learn of who was the first to do this and that and the third, it's, like, inspiring to me. You know what I mean? Like, it's not for nothing. Even though yeah, man.
South Side Frank:He he should've got paid more. He should've got more exposure. You know what I mean? But, we're gonna keep this history going. We're gonna keep talking about it now.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? And and and and show people, we're doing. But yeah, like, especially when it comes to music,
Rob Lee:historically,
South Side Frank:you see, black artists getting screwed. You know what I mean? They screw themselves and they got screwed over. You know?
Rob Lee:Being able to be a part of, you know, reminding people and illuminating people of the work that is out there, and, you know, and and we'll close on this before I move into the rapid fire question because you're getting those as well. You know, you're you said you're a villain, I'm a villain.
South Side Frank:I hear what's going on talking about it. Let's go.
Rob Lee:But it but I think it's really important to be able to do that, and and, you know, to my own slice, that's what I aim to do with this, you know? I I try to talk to a lot of different people, and only the only sort of rule is, if there is a rule, don't be boring. You know, that's literally what it is. Just, you know, be, you know, come with a story. So I wanna move into these rapid fire.
Rob Lee:I got 4 of them for you, and as I tell people all the time, don't overthink these, you know. You you said it earlier, you gotta be on your toes.
South Side Frank:Yeah. I try.
Rob Lee:So I'm gonna give you a softball because I'm gonna be nice, and then it's gonna get a little little different.
South Side Frank:Okay. I appreciate that.
Rob Lee:So the first one, flats or drums?
South Side Frank:Drums.
Rob Lee:You get it. You get it. Yeah.
South Side Frank:I like the ones. Life is hard already. Like, why make
South Side Frank:it harder than yourself? That's good. I
South Side Frank:I see some people that just chew the bone. I'm like, are you wilding? Why you what do
Rob Lee:you why are you doing this?
South Side Frank:They got that dog in them. They got that dog in them.
Rob Lee:Literally, literally. So let's see. So I think we all have these these moments where we kinda lose sight of why we do what we do. Right? When you lose sight, if you lose sight, but when you lose sight, how do you get back on track?
Rob Lee:Like, how do you get back to, okay, this is why I'm pursuing this. This is why I'm showing work in this way and and doing work in it. This is why I'm collaborating. This is why I'm trying to help tell the stories and, you know, the October, sketchbook. How do you get back to that that why?
South Side Frank:It's almost like my body be telling me to get back before I even realized. You know? Like, I'm already a pretty, high energy type person, but I get anxious. I get tense. I get, I feel extra angst.
South Side Frank:And I'm like, I might even get tight in his shoulders, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, who's falling? You know what I mean? Like, what what's going on?
South Side Frank:Using my outlet. You know? I I kind of depend on it. Liable to punch a hole in a wall or something, you know. So, I, it brings me it's simple to at least know where it is, like, on a compass because it gives me joy.
South Side Frank:You know what I mean? Like, it's, oh, that's where my happiness is.
Rob Lee:Right. Right. I hear you. You mentioned earlier some some some and some interesting pop culture references, some from your youth, what is one show, like if you're like, hey, Frank, we're coming to you, we want you to animate this reboot of, let's say, a cartoon from your youth. It has to be something you watched as a kid.
Rob Lee:They're rebooting it. What is the cartoon?
South Side Frank:I mean, I guess, pole position. Like, off the top of my head Yeah. It was a show in the eighties called Pole Position. Like most shows, it was, it had a Japanese anime style. You know, they send those to the to overseas for them to work on and stuff.
South Side Frank:And, it was about cars, you know. And I'm like, man, you could do a lot with that right now. And they got it had a talking computer that had a face, like a little smiley face.
Rob Lee:Yo. I'm gonna watch the f out of this. I've never heard of this.
South Side Frank:Yeah. It's like I'm Stuart now, but, I mean, like, everything else, looking back at it, was made to So maybe the toy wasn't as successful and then they just canned the show. But I I actually kind of accidentally watched it yesterday. I'm like, oh, oh, what was this? I remember this.
South Side Frank:You know?
Rob Lee:I'm watching that. Watching that after this. I'm Oh, oh,
South Side Frank:oh, oh, or or or Robotech. And that everybody I think that's a wider known brand, but it's crazy that it's not been rebooted. I know there's a lot of issues for that reason.
South Side Frank:Yeah.
South Side Frank:But, man, if it ever gets rebooted, I would love to work on that. Even if it were, like, live action and I could do storyboard work for it. I and I wouldn't even like a deep, deep fan, but I've come to appreciate it for as an adult.
Rob Lee:See, this this is, this is sort of the point where we're almost manifesting it a little bit. Right?
South Side Frank:Yeah. Let's do it. Here it go. Happy. Give me all that juice.
South Side Frank:Right. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Powers.
South Side Frank:Right. Make it happen.
South Side Frank:So so
Rob Lee:this is the last one, and I think this is a good way to put a pin in all of it. Right? In your opinion, with the exception of yourself, who is the most understood villain? Because you're a hometown villain. I I've read that.
South Side Frank:I've read it.
South Side Frank:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know a lot of villains, man. Yeah.
South Side Frank:Some of my homeboys. You know? We meet up
Rob Lee:at the at the League of Villainry.
South Side Frank:It's all good. Yeah, yeah. Knock a couple back, you know what I'm saying? But, okay. Yeah, these are some rapid fire questions because I had to I had to think.
South Side Frank:You said the most understood.
Rob Lee:Misunderstood.
South Side Frank:Miss most misunderstood. Oh, Frankenstein's monster.
Rob Lee:It's good.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Most misunderstood.
Rob Lee:I'm glad you didn't do the typical thing. Like, well, obviously, it's Killmonger or Magneto. I'm like, alright.
South Side Frank:No. Go over here. No. No. No.
South Side Frank:No. No.
Rob Lee:So in these final moments, there are 2 things I wanna do. 1, I wanna thank you for coming on, being a part of the podcast. This has been a lot of fun. And 2, I wanna invite and encourage you in these final moments, tell folks where they could check you out, website, social media, and where folks can, you know, check out the sketchbook and
South Side Frank:Okay.
Rob Lee:Have spy the sketchbook.
South Side Frank:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.
South Side Frank:You can find me, on the socials,
South Side Frank:not all of them.
South Side Frank:I don't do Twitter no more. But, you know, Instagram, southside frank_0.2. I put a lot of quick sketches up there. Some more, things I'm trying to work out, like I ideas and stuff and then just something throwaway drawings. Usually pretty entertaining.
South Side Frank:At least, obviously, I would say that. And then, you can get the books, the potober sketchbooks at, southsidefrank.com. It's my website. You got for sale up here. So check it out.
Rob Lee:Well, there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank South Side Frank for coming on to the podcast and and blessing us with a bit of this journey. And I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
