Welcome to the Truth in His Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for tuning into my conversations, bridging arts, culture, and community. Do remember to follow us on Instagram where you can see clips from the podcast, some insights, and much, much more. That's truth in this art on Instagram.
Rob Lee:Today, I am super excited to welcome my next guest, a special guest. She's an independent curator, creative producer, longtime museum professional, and a former human rights lawyer from Venezuela. Her career includes impactful work with multiple Smithsonian Museums, the Washington Project For the Arts, and Times Square Arts. Please welcome Fabiola r Delgado. Welcome to the podcast.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yay. Thank you.
Rob Lee:So thank you for coming on. I feel like it's just natural. So thank you for coming on, joining the conversation, And, before we get into the sort of deeper, deeper questions, the more introspective questions, could you share a bit about yourself, more about your sort of art experience? I find, like, you know, I'll ask these questions. I start off introducing the person, ask these questions, and I'm basing on a bio.
Rob Lee:Right? And I wanna get, you know, the sort of art experience, but I'm very curious about sort of, you know, your bio, who you are, like, what part of that bio is, like, left out because I have, you know, museum professional, I have curator, I have, former human rights lawyer lawyer and in Venezuela. So give us a bit about, you know, your background and sort of one of those things that's left out.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. My name is Fabiola Ardelgado, erdelgado. I kinda switch, if I'm speaking in Spanish or in English, and you are right. I mean, thank you for doing the research.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I am a former human rights lawyer. I turned into an art curator, a creative producer, independently, And I I make sure to clarify this transition because it's a huge part of me, just like being in Venezuelan is a huge part of me, and I don't think I'll ever not be it. I've been in the US for about 13 years. It'll be 13 years in August. And I came here to request political asylum, And I'm still in that legal limbo in a way.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So, yeah, Venezuelan, human rights lawyer, turned into a curator. I think that's a huge part of, you know, who I am and my perspective and it informs a lot of the work that I do. So, you know, coming to the US of all places to request political asylum for my engagement in human rights activism, political activism back home. I you know, I don't know if you know, but, like, I used to work for Amnesty International back, in Venezuela. I was the regional manager of my chapter, or like the chapter of the organization in my region in Carahobo.
Fabiola R. Delgado:But one thing that's not typically in my bios online or professional, but that do come up in conversation is the fact that I was a nanny for like half of my time in the US. I've been here nearly 13 years and about 7 or more than half so far, I was a nanny before even jumping into, you know, from law to the art world. And, yeah, I think that is also a huge part of of me and my practice and the things that I value. Also understanding invisible labor and being an immigrant and a domestic worker, you know, coming and not having documents, you know, at first, Having to navigate a system that's, you know, difficult on purpose and by design, and suddenly, I'm like, well, but I'm a human rights lawyer. Like, I'm prepared.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'm you know, I know this stuff. Why is it so difficult? I'm smart. And then I know English. Like, I didn't come even, you know, without the language.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, I already knew English before I moved here. I definitely got better at it. And still it was just so so difficult and very lucky and very fortunate to have met people along the way that along the way that have helped me and let me say, you know, in their house for free and giving me jobs, even if I didn't have a working document or, you know, help me really pave the way because you can't do it alone.
Rob Lee:Wow. I mean, you you mentioned sort of nearly 13 years, and it's been it's been that. It's being able to, 1, keep who you are, who your your identity, and really be, you know, hold onto that, grasp onto that, because that's important. And, you know, as I was going over the research and going over your background, it's just like, no, that's absolutely a big part of one's identity and really holding on to that. You know, so bravo to you for 1.
Rob Lee:Because, like, this this notion of, like, you know, it's 13 years. It's kind of a gray area, you know? That's it's not it's not great. It's not great. And, then also sort of having that background in the nanny part, I'm glad you met.
Rob Lee:I had no idea.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. I'm like, yeah, that's kinda hard to find online. I tell you, like, you found me on YouTube. I'm like, oh, yeah. I also used to be a singer.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I used to have bands all over. I played in a bunch of bars all over DC. I used to collect mugs from all the venues where I sang. So so, you know, that's where I had my tea and this is like a little souvenir. But, yeah, the nannying part.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Nobody, you know, you know, know, if you get to know me, you know that. And I'm really close to the last kids that I nannied, Lila and Josie, they're like my nieces at this point. When I was, you know, full timing, we were all in understanding. Mom, dad, and fa, like, we're all co parenting. And funnily enough, they're both lawyer suit.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So it's like these kids are grown up to be like justice fighters and activists and they're like all about fairness, and they can call, you know, stuff out. I don't know if I can swear. So
Rob Lee:No. It's abs absolutely. That out. Thank you. Thank you.
Rob Lee:You know, we we we wanted to be as honest and as real as possible. And I you know, again, this this idea around sort of, you know, what we do, how we navigate sort of these these different things that are there. And again, this the activism thing, like, we we talk about these things here that feel like they're activism, but when someone's coming here and it's like, you know, living here and being here for a very long time, big chunk of your life, you know, you've been here, It's like, that's the work I'm actually interested in. Like, what that journey looks like versus like, oh, yeah. I didn't get this one grant, and now I'm an activist.
Rob Lee:It's like, alright. Sure. I'm I'm one too. And, you know, then the perseverance that they are. So shout out to you, like, you know, again and you talk a bit about because I'm very curious.
Rob Lee:When I hear, you know, law background, specifically in, like, you know, human rights and then sort of, you know, the trajectory and going into arts and and curation and being that that art pusher. I saw that. I saw that. You know? So talk about sort of, like, what influenced moving into more of the creative space more and and spending more time in that area.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. Well, I've I've always had a deep appreciation for the arts in all of its forms. I grew up singing. I grew up dancing. I was on stage a lot.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I like, you know, was in competitions representing my school, and so I think music is definitely like my first love. My mom, Adriana, she has exquisite taste in music, and I only realize it now as an adult. Sometimes as a kid, you're like, yeah, this is not that good. I'm like, oh my god. This is amazing.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So I'm really glad that I had her influence. Also, I mean, there's a lot of singer, you know, women in my family, are and where my aunt, my cousins, and so, like, that livelihood and that, you know, it was also normal. It wasn't special. They weren't, like, a professional singer for something, like, you know, they sang at churches. They sang with, you know, their Afros, Julian, you know, groups, and just in the house all the time.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And I think artists just find each other. You gravitate towards the other creatives, the weirdos. I recently wrote a blog about like the importance of having weird friends, and it was about that, you know. The weird, the artist, the creative friends because like they really push you to be the most you you can be. Another influence is, my dad.
Fabiola R. Delgado:My he's technically my stepdad, my, but he, you know, he's part of our family. Since I was a teenager, he really, you know, Vito took the role of of dad. My biological father was not a great one. And we're lucky to have escaped this violent abusive cycle and Vito, you know, has been a really wonderful father figure. And he was back in Venezuela, he was a frame maker.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So he used to frame artworks for all the artists in the city. He had a little, you know, very little gallery in Valencia where I, you know, mostly grew up and, you know, just seeing him interact with artists, seeing, you know, some experimental, some like more emerging, some more like established or recognized was was really fascinating. And that was, you know, he also taught me the value of a story and I remember him always saying like, you know, art is not a necessity in the way that, you know, food is a necessity or water or even money. Like, you need a job because then you need, like, you know, these things that you need. Otherwise, you cannot live in society.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Art is not that kind of a necessity. It's it's for the soul. It's for beauty. It's for, you know, it's still a necessity but like in a different hierarchy in whatever Maslow's or whatever pyramid. And, and the value of the story is like, you know, some artwork, yes, you count the hours that you put in, the materials, all of that has a specific price, but the value, some stuff is priceless just because you can create such a deep connection with it.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And and yeah, storytelling does come from that. Also, yeah, from all my friends, and I guess my own, you know, interest in in art and activism. I I wanted to be a lawyer since I was like 6 years old because I wanted to sue my dad for like all the shit he put us through. And, and, and like, I knew, like, I know I can sue him. I know he owes us money.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I know that, you know, he should go to jail, like, ah, so very feisty. And then growing up, Venezuela started getting more and more totalitarian, and it became more of a dictatorial, you know, state. And suddenly I seemed like, oh my gosh, I need to also fight for my country. Like, I gotta, you know, save something. And artists usually are, you know, the strongest voices or the most free voices, because you're like, there's like a need again or like an impetus for expressing, you know, your emotions, for putting a mirror on society and, again, calling shit out.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. And so all of that has really turned into, like, a melange, a whole mix of, like, I always wanted to work in the arts. I was in the circus. That's also not in my bio, but I used to be a circus performer. I was in the first and only gospel choir in my country.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I, you know, like I've always been part of these communities.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And mixed it always with the human rights, you know, working with Amnesty, doing campaigns, having concerts, organizing events. Like this is a way that I can talk to people about important issues and, you know, call attention to our government, to other, you know, private citizens, to, you know, institutions and and corporations, but I can do it in a fun way, in a creative way. And it's less intimidating then because then I'm not like, well, I'm a lawyer and let me tell you all the things that are wrong. It's like we're gonna have a concert and in between songs, we're gonna have conversations. And some of these songs, you should listen to the lyrics.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So, yeah, all of that is part of what influences me.
Rob Lee:Wow. Again, you know, hearing that and hearing that sort of background that, you know, that ever changing, ever developing background, I'm getting more and more pieces of it, all of the onion is being peeled. Yeah. Like, you know, I do this when I when I talk to folks, like, one, you know, people being, like, oh, you just do a podcast. You're just a media person.
Rob Lee:I was like, I'm a data analyst by day, and having that sort of mindset, and I try to find ways where they they connect, And then hearing you really break down and describe sort of these different parts that make up your background in your life, and I'm sure there's gonna be another one that comes out, like, Rob, one time I was a boxer.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Also, another. Yeah.
Rob Lee:But, yeah, it's it's great to see where they connect. And, you know, as you were describing a second ago of, like, yeah, these are these great songs, but let's have some conversation and, like, why this matters, why this connects. That aids in the storytelling. I think that's really powerful and really important. And what I'm gathering as we kinda shift into a bit of, like, sort of your your more current work, I I I I think that there's this this advocacy there, obviously, where we have folks who are making art that may not always get those sort of opportunities, those sort of sterling opportunities, and that's really, really something that interests me because that's what I'm trying to do with this podcast.
Rob Lee:And, you know, I speak to a lot of different people, and I remember doing an interview a couple years ago with, Torel Telford, and it was just like the underrepresented and unrepresented communities, that's sort of what it is. And folks will tell me, oh, you should just really focus in this area and that area. It's like, I think I got this. You know what I mean? So could you talk a bit about your current work and and is it, you know, accurate as far as what I was touching on of some of the folks you you're working with?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yes. So as a curator now, as this current life that I'm, you know, living, as an independent curator, creative producer, what I really enjoy, I think the the thing that makes me most exciting is the storytelling aspect of it. And I think I I find storytelling is quite the essence. Again, from income or from income a country coming from a country where, you know, there's not really a lot of freedom of expression, you go to prison or you end up dead if you speak against the government or I mean, I was almost again, that's another thing. It's like I was almost thrown in jail.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I've been kidnapped. I've been, you know, persecuted. That's why I came to Ruplu as political asylum. It it's just so difficult and there's like a choking sensation of like I want to say something and if I say something, the consequence can be really bad for me or for my family. Artists usually just break through and they don't care.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'm in the cusp of like I don't I'm not an artist, I'm an art pusher like I wanna work with artists and, and like through my voice and my singing I definitely did a lot of that. But there's still just such a risk and when my mom tells me to stop, like, don't come back, I'm like, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna get quiet for a bit because I don't want her to, you know, get hurt. But, you know, that definitely informs my practice today. And so I see storytelling, you know, as a curator, I feel like artists tell stories through their work and curators tell story stories through the artist's work.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Because that way I can, you know, amplify the voices, you know, as you're mentioning, you know, people that are marginalized that often, you know, get the mic. It's like this is a way in which I can organize and bring different voices that may not have, you know, the mic all the time and amplify them, build platforms over them. Every time if I have access to an institution, I was like, I'm opening the door. Like, there's more people that come in here. Doing it independently is a little bit different, but still I'm like, oh, now I can actually work in the stories that I wanna work with the people that I want to, you know, work with.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And through curation, I also understand a lot of myself. Like it's been very therapeutic and and I've been able to understand and process a lot of my own, you know, traumas and wounds. Usually that one of, like, not being able to speak, like, oh, I can express myself through the works of others. They get me in some way and that's something really beautiful that art does because even though it can be so personal, so intimate, it resonates with people. Everybody has a shared story of pain or joy or whatever it is.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like you can read it, and then we can have a really interesting dialogue. So, yes, that's mostly what I do.
Rob Lee:Thank you. Thank you. And, you know, I was gathering that I wanted to give you the mic to have you share your story and your and your words and what have you. And and thank you because, you know, again, I always go back into the sort of purpose of doing this and you being based in DC. The sort of, I guess, start and basis of that was a response to, someone who is a felon now who who is living in DC.
Rob Lee:And, you know, that that notion of of of Trump talking about these places that have folks that are black and brown folks and just kinda, you know, crapping on those places, crapping on what I don't think is the streets or the lights. I think it's the people in those places, and these very inflammatory and really damaging and harmful things that were being said for for now 4 plus years. And, you know, so for me, in thinking, like, alright, folks have stories as as you're touching on and and being able to share, like, what really happens in a place, you know, that's that's the thing that really interests me. And I think being able to share those stories through mostly artists, mostly creative folks, and, you know, a lot of times I would hear from people, no one's ever thought I was an artist. No one ever thought my work mattered.
Rob Lee:And I'm like, well, I think your work's interesting. Get to talk about it. And it's just something that, like a bulb that goes off on people, it's like, wow, someone's actually leaning in and using, you know, sort of their platform, if you will, to help amplify what I do. That's that's the exchange. But, for me, I I think in I think there's always some sort of challenge when you're doing things.
Rob Lee:And I love the thing you said earlier about being around the weirdos. Yeah. I love the weirdos. I'm one of the weirdos. But there there are challenges, like, you know, you know, obviously, you know, as an independent.
Rob Lee:Right? So you're an independent curator. I'm an independent podcaster. There is no network behind me in any of that stuff, and a lot of times, independent. Like, one person don't have you.
Rob Lee:Could you could you speak on some of the, like, unique challenges and rewards of being in that independent path?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. Well, let's start let's start with I mean, the challenges are always usually surrounding money, finances. It's, it's a shame that, you know, and sometimes I'm surprised. I'm like, oh, like there's no like department of culture, you know? There's DNA, there's some organizations that are, like, pseudo governmental.
Fabiola R. Delgado:They're they're, you know, they're there, like, floating, and and they do a lot of help. Like, they do serve a a great purpose
Rob Lee:Sure.
Fabiola R. Delgado:But it's not like established. Like, why is this not in the constitution? You know? Like, why are we not supporting the arts in all of, you know, their ways, in in, like, a more systemic, you know, way, at least in this country? And in general, you know, around the world the arts are still, you know, not seen as a viable career.
Fabiola R. Delgado:There's like all these perceptions that you know, make money off of it. Like, you know, people tell, like, there's an art market. Like, there's a way in which it, you know, functions or dysfunction sometimes in the hard world. But, you know, the the the investment and, like, resources are are necessary. And also, you know, speaking of the systemic inequalities or inequities, you know, I people don't have all, you know, different people don't all have same starting point or the same, you know, networks, the same abilities.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I I think everybody has the same capacity, but not the same, you know, know how. Yeah. And so even investing in particular, you know, communities, people of color, immigrants, Black folks, like, okay, well, let's divert some money and, like, focus it on here. Because, you know, like it's not gonna be like, oh, well, it's not equal. Like, no, it's not equal, but it's equitable.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, I always think of like, you know, justice is my main goal and I thought that justice, you know, as a kid I thought justice meant being a lawyer, being a judge, like going to court. Like that's what justice is. And through law school I made it, you know, not immediately, but like it took a few years of like I don't think this is gonna work. The country's not gonna get better. Whatever I do might end up, you know, killing me or putting me in jail.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I like, is it worth it? And I think I think it is. I think we definitely need more lawyers than human rights lawyers. People was like, oh, why did you quit, you know, human rights? Like, we need more of you.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, we need people who want to do that. And they are so passionate and obsessed with it that they, like, will go to, you know, their last resort to, like, find justice. And here I've been able to be like, oh, I think there are other ways of finding justice and it could be through the arts and it's, you know, studying history, working in museums, which also like somehow I found myself within the Smithsonian, which is beyond a dream. It was I couldn't even imagine that I could work at the Smithsonian. When I was younger, I can seem like, well, like, doing an exhibition and writing this history and, you know, it's gonna you know, outcome, life.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And you need to be able to integrate different perspectives because otherwise, you're just like, is history just never gonna be fair? I'm like, nope. So, yeah. It's not really about, like, how do we do like, you need to add everything. It's never gonna be perfect.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's like utopia. Like, the the goal is gonna keep moving forward and forward. But, you know, if you center justice, if you want justice at the center being restorative, being, you know, reparational, being, you know, like trying to fix past mistakes will help us in the present and will help us in the future as well.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I mean and I like the the point you were making earlier around, like, what's equitable and what's equality. Right? And, you know, I I remember and it kind of dovetails on that point I was joking about earlier about, yeah, I'm an activist because I didn't get that grant. It's that thing where I remember that how messaging gets sullied because of how, like, social media and all works.
Rob Lee:Right? And, you know, we have these, like, sort of social media advocacy and and things of that nature. And it's just, you know, for simplicity, brevity's sake, and these are deeper issues. These are more systemic issues. These are old issues that have been around for a long time, and I remember, you know, the talk around defund the police.
Rob Lee:I was like, let's actually put the full thing in there. It's defund and reallocate. Let's take the money from there and put it in these other places. And I I recently went back in and and dove into this, this book, Death of the Artist, And, you know, I remember one thing that stuck out. You you mentioned NEA and NEH.
Rob Lee:Right? And, you know, something about, like, since the peak of funding that the NEH had, I believe, it was just, like, we're now down to, like, 47¢. And this is at 2020, so it's probably even lower now, 47¢ per person in the US dedicated towards art. So in it, that notion almost turns into how we look at films. Right?
Rob Lee:Like, oh, this didn't this didn't hit the mark. You know? We didn't make that 1,000,000,000 off of it, so they only invested in these things that look like large wins. And the other thing I'll say is the the archival thing, the storytelling thing. You know, we can look at it in live and in color.
Rob Lee:You look at something from 5 years ago, and we've already rebranded what the actual story was, but we were all around then to know exactly what was happening. So Yeah. Something like this and something that has, like, work being covered and folks like you being in the Smithsonian and the work that you're doing, you know, that's important because the sort of the truth and the documentation and the archival around that will be changed because, you know, the the winners get to write the, write the story.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Exactly. So, yeah, that's definitely a huge challenge and, like, that's kinda what we have to, you know, continue doing this work and continue advocating for the reallocation of funds of the expansion or investment, into different, you know, communities to even, you know, as an independent curator right now, I'm like, okay. Maybe I don't have a lot of money, but I I wanna have a show and I'm gonna invite people that haven't had a show before that maybe are not selling. Like I like how can we make room for everybody because there's definitely room. There's definitely, resources.
Fabiola R. Delgado:We just need to be more intentional about them. Because that was a challenge. And you also asked, like, oh, like some of the good things. Like, what do you like? And I do like the independent part, you know?
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's it's also the scarier part, because I don't have like a salary. It's not the most stable of, situations, but I'm able to select. You know? I'm like, well, I I'm gonna be intentional. I'm like, I wanna work with this artist, you know, and we're gonna find a way.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I may not get a grant. Maybe I will. Maybe, you know, know, I put out a little bit on my own money. Like, we'll figure something out. But, you know, having that agency and being able to work with people who are also very excited and exciting and encouraging and coming up with, like, interesting, you know, series and ideas or stuff that, you know, maybe just doesn't get as shown in galleries.
Fabiola R. Delgado:But, oh, we're gonna do it because I don't have a board, you know, above my head. I don't have an agenda. I don't have a museum, you know, director and all these people right now to, like, tell me, okay. Well, this is the strategy for the next 5 years. Like, something happens, they're like, we could have done this, and we missed this opportunity or missed the mark.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So, yeah, that's I really like the the the independent part, doing really what you want and who you want to do it with.
Rob Lee:The freedom and autonomy is is amazing. I mean, you know, I recommend everyone try it. It's delicious. Yeah. So so this is this is like a secondary question in that area.
Rob Lee:So, you know, like, what was that sort of because you'd mentioned that it's it's a little scary. Right? And in doing this and reaching out for potential funders, potential grants, or even reaching out with someone to come on and do this podcast, like, I'm always very happy for someone to come on and spend time. Happy to hear you or spend time and and chat with me and answer my goofy questions. So, you know, for me, it's always when I'm thinking through, like, what is this season gonna look like?
Rob Lee:Who do I wanna talk to? Will they reach out? Will they reach out in time? It's it's risky, you know, and a lot of times, it's my own money, and it's my my time. I'm taking away from these other areas.
Rob Lee:I could be watching anime or actually going to a museum or doing doing something else. Right? So could you, you know, share with us sort of that, you know, one of those really early, if not sort of, like, first, like, shows that you curate and, like, what was that experience like? What were the the sweat beads like and all of that leading into it?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. That's funny because I didn't know what a curator was. Coming from the legal in the legal world, there is a a term, curador, curator, and a curator in the legal world is a person, usually a lawyer, but is a person who is designated by a judge to like take care of the finances of a person who is like mentally disabled or like uncapable of managing their finances or maybe children whose parents have died. So that is a curator or a curator, which you know comes from caretaker, you know, like you take care of, in this case the finances, the, the assets of a person because you're not able to do it yourself. And in the art world, usually like originally that's also what it meant.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It was the taker, the caretaker, the take carer of artworks. You know? There's conservation work. There's archival work. There's, you know you know, putting away, saving, you know, making sure that things, you know, last for a long time, curating of artists, you know, making sure that artists are well taken care of.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And when I was a nanny, when I was an au pair at first, 2011, I came to this country and I was friends with other nannies from all over the world, a lot of South Americans. And one of my best friends still today, Eliana Macri, she's an artist. She was an artist and a professor back in Argentina. And in the US, she was a nanny just like me. I was a lawyer back in my home, and Hubert, our, you know, nanny, which is an incredible job and it has so much honor, which is not probably recognized as well, but, and we met that way because our kids were neighbors.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, we were neighbors, our kids were friends, so we were forced to be friends. And it worked out. But she was, an artist and she kept painting. And one of her earlier like her family was very bit supportive or her host family was very supportive of her. She painted.
Fabiola R. Delgado:She, you know, was teaching the kids that she'd take care, you know, to paint. Like, art was always very, much part of her, you know, routine, as a nanny. And she was able to connect with the Argentinian Embassy. Me from Argentina, her family, her host family, you know, we have contacts, we have connections and the, I don't wanna speak ill of the Argentinian embassy. I'm not gonna say names, but they hung some of her work upside down.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like some of her work was not handled correctly. They didn't really know what her artwork was about. And me, you know, I was just a friend.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And but I knew, you know, what her work was about. I knew the correct way of installing. I knew also, you know, from my previous, you know, learning from my dad and, you know, I had some knowledge. Even if not like formally trained, I was just being a friend, and I, you know, would help her write her statements. Like, I need a bio, and, like, I don't know.
Fabiola R. Delgado:That's also not taught in, you know, art school. Nobody teaches artists how to write or how to apply for grants or how to, you know, price your works. And so I helped her on all of that. And she's like, you are my curator. Okay.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like I just want them to contact you and you like tell them what to do. And I would like I went back. I was like what is a curator? Googling what does curator in art means. And so that was my earliest experience I think, at least here in the US.
Fabiola R. Delgado:In Venezuela, I kind of always organize concerts, art shows. I had a friend or have a friend who used to be, a professor of, graphic design. And with Amnesty International, I set up, a contest and I was like, okay, like, how do I involve the arts? But about human rights and education, like, I wanna go give a talk. Let's talk about, you know, human rights, the state of human rights in the country.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And so we did, like, a a poster contest. And using all of the knowledge and, you know, tools and all these workshop stuff, we would select a winner and what was gonna be shown and or used in a campaign for Amnesty International. So things like that were not as, like, an art exhibition situation. But then, yeah, coming to the city was literally friends who were artists and like, you're my curator. Okay?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, you deal with that because you know better than apparently the career of them, or the then. I think they've changed in in 13 years.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. And thank you. It's it's good to get that sort of, like, feedback from from folks who have you. Like, oh, wow. I didn't think that was a thing.
Rob Lee:Like,
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. I didn't know it was a job. That that was the thing. I didn't know. I I didn't have the language.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You know? If you don't know what you don't know. So, like, I'm just being a good friend. That's a job, helping you write a statement or helping you hang artwork and and, you know, making sure, like, you know, maybe show this one next to this one. Like, feel like they have a conversation.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, this one is not from the same series. Like, why, like, making sense of the artist's work? And I was like, well, I guess I I I'm good at connecting the dots. And Right. My friends always told me, like, are you, like, you know everybody.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You're the connector. Like, if you, like, if you need something or if you wanna do it, like, Pho always knows a person or know somebody and know someone. Like Pho's such a connector between, you know, people or concerts. Like, you should go to this place. You could go to this restaurant and tell them Pho sent you, and they'll give you something that's not on the menu.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And all my friends are artists, you know, like, I'm just, like, trying to help you. That was a job. Cool. Maybe I can do it.
Rob Lee:It's like I I get it, and I I really dig that. I have similar value. It might be an air sign. I don't know. Because, you know, I've talked I've I've done interviews with some curators, and I remember one of the earliest ones I did, dude was like, you're kind of a curator.
Rob Lee:You know that. Right? And I was like, nah. He was like I was like, that's more rarefied. That's that's a fine art thing.
Rob Lee:He's like, no. He's like, you're talking about why this is ordered in this way at this, like, exhibit that hasn't opened yet, and he was just like, sounds very similar, and having other folks who have and not to not to say that that's the only thing, but he's like, yeah, it's a consideration. And having other folks who, in that vein of knowing where stuff is at, like, I try to lead, you know, it's it's like the Rick Rubin thing. It's like, oh, I'm not a musician, but I know my taste. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:And I've been deemed by some folks as, like, you're a culture guy. And I was like, I'll take that. I like that. And it's like, you can go to a city you've never been in. I bet you find the best cup of coffee right there at the close spot or where the vibes are at.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Quite a skill to have, and and I think that's where I'm like, oh, maybe it's like all the logical, all of the training in in in interpretation of the law. Like, I I was trained to interpret the law. Yeah. And 2, sometimes my benefit or the benefit of a client, even if, you know, but like you are able to interpret things. So that training, plus sure some of the air signs, some of the Aquarius, some of the Gemini, you know, weirdo friends, it all adds up.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's like, oh, this is what I guess that was the job, I didn't know. One of my other friends who was also a nanny, Lulu, he he was an au pair with me from France and he was like, you've done it all. Like, you're a lawyer, but you're also a teacher, but you're also an nanny. But you should be an actress. That way you can do all sorts of roles.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'm like, maybe I shouldn't.
Rob Lee:The mother.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So at this point I'm like, okay. Not gonna go into the actress role or route. I think through curation, like I still am able to like navigate different lives, tell different stories, being able to like participate in, like, different worlds and being part of, you know, the artist world, whatever they are. I'm like, oh, I can satisfy, like, my It's
Rob Lee:it's the it's that wanderlust thing, and I I get a lot of that in in doing these interviews and, you know, coming up on 800 of them. And
Fabiola R. Delgado:Amazing.
Rob Lee:And I and I I joke about them, like, man, I talk to people more interested than myself all
Fabiola R. Delgado:the time.
Rob Lee:So almost in this sort of juxtaposition, like switching of it, so we talked about sort of one of those those early and and and first, like, curatorial experiences. Let's talk about the most recent one with, recent exhibition Between, Through, Across at the DC Arts Center. Talk tell us about it. Like, I just recently opened all that good stuff, so let's give us some details.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. So we just opened on Friday. It's there for, a month, so it'll be the closing reception will be Sunday, that's 30th June. So you still have a month to go check it out. And this was a really exciting exhibition because I if you see my notes app on the phone, I have just ideas for shows, ideas for even titles.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Sometimes I have a title. I'm like, I I don't know what the show is about, but I like this, you know, thing or these artists, like, you know, just writing stuff down. So I I couldn't tell you, like, when exactly I came up with the idea for this. It's been just brewing for for some time, probably a couple of years, mainly because of my own experience as a as an immigrant, as a member of one of the fastest growing diasporas in in the US, the Venezuelan diaspora. I mean, as artist and friend, Guales Casol Orsalo, Guales Casol Orsalo calls it.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And so it's always been like, okay. How do I do a show that is about the experience of a diaspora? Being an extension of a home away from home and like this sensation of, like, being a portal between cultures and how you can exist in multiplicity, how can you be dispersed in your own self, and how multiple things can live through you. So that between, through, across came from, like, studies and like a lot of research on like the meaning even of diaspora, etymologically, and like now in, you know, more current and contemporary research and African American studies and Latino studies and Chicano studies like oh my god like diaspora has become a more universal way of calling, you know, people that have origin somewhere else.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It didn't use to be the case until, like, the sixties where it was more, like, solidify us as a term. So, yeah, it's like I I was just obsessed. Like, why do we use this word? What does it even mean? Diasporam, like, diasporam, like, sports, like, and, like, it does have a relationship to that, to sports, like, things that just fly around and scattered.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And I found really interesting how originally the word diaspora, like from Greek, had like a colonization meaning behind it. It was about going out and like colonizing other places like setting, you know, sitting or or you know, sending your seats, like, go and like take over spaces. And, but it was a translation from a Hebrew word, galut or galuts. I don't know how to pronounce it. Who, that meant, like, people in exile.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It was Jews exiled from Palestine. And in that or that Babylonian exile, like, that's what it meant for them being pushed away.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So it was a really interesting contrast of, like, for some people, diaspora means to to go and take space even if it doesn't belong to you while for others or at least originally was to be pushed away from that space. And that's something as a forced migrant that really resonated. Like, oh, well, I was forced to leave. I didn't choose, and I don't think a lot of people choose to leave, especially, like, you know, places of conflict, spaces of, you know, high risks. But that was just really interesting.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, oh, how do we speak of our own experience as part of a diaspora, Latino, also in a place that is a colonizer. And and we somehow ended up here too. So it was just really exciting to you know read and delve into these themes, talk to the artists going to their studios. It's also a really special show because the DC Art Center, so, this is an exhibition of the curatorial program of DC Art Center. So they have an annual program in which they invite a curator that's a little bit more established and one that's emerging.
Fabiola R. Delgado:They pair them together so it's a year long collaboration and mentorship. Used to be called the, like curatorial apprenticeship, now it's a curatorial program, so it's like more formal, like, an education experience and a learning experience for emerging curators, because there's not a lot of those opportunities, you know, who I also am like literally calling Philippa Hughes and other people. I'm like, hi. I don't know how you do what you do. Can I learn?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Can you be my mentor? It was hilarious. Philippa Hughes, also incredible artist, curator, cultural ambassador of everything, and like queen of DC in in in a way, she she was like, I don't wanna be your mentor. I'd rather be your friend. And I was like, oh my gosh.
Fabiola R. Delgado:My heart's like, let's just get coffee. Like, what is that mentorship like? Oh, let's be friends. We're friends still today. So I'm glad.
Fabiola R. Delgado:But they're very far and and few in between or few and far in between opportunities in which you can have access to a curator who's done, you know, some work. Not saying that I'm super established or anything. Like, okay. Well, I have some something, you know, under my belt. And really excited that I got to be paired with Carter Wynn who's an incredible artist.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And actually a year or 2 ago, I was a juror for a show and she was part of that. So, like, we've, like, kinda, like, been ships in the night. We've been orbiting, and so this program brought us together. She has been learning, coming to studios with me, talking to the artists, learning the process. And then at the end of the year, our roles will switch, and she's gonna curate a show in in October with my assistants.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'll be there to be on the other side. And like, what do you need? Do you need me to look for something? Let me Google this. Let me, you know, be of assistance.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And so that's really special too, for this show.
Rob Lee:That's that's amazing. And, you know, as and I and I definitely have a couple more questions around it, but, you know, definitely as, a few few weeks removed from my, first almost full year of teaching experience, and you're relearning things, and, like, I know this. It's like, oh, you don't, or you know pieces of it and let's dive into it a bit further.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. You
Rob Lee:know, and and having that experience and sort of, you know, that that that time in doing the the apprenticeship, this this program, what have you, were there any things that you kinda relearned that you were, like, solid on this, and it's like I'm revisiting it and it's like, oh, I'm looking at this differently now.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. I feel like a lot of it is knowledge that you didn't know you knew or because it's part of your practice, you're like, oh, yeah. This is just, you know, I hang it this way. I I don't have to think about it. So this was more of an exercise of remembering step by step, of of explaining or, like, justifying, like, oh, but why are you doing this?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, because it's part of my process. Oh, because, okay, why is it part of your process? Cardi is also a great question asker. She is a paralegal, has been working as a paralegal. I'm like,
Rob Lee:come
Fabiola R. Delgado:on, paralegal folks unite. Let's jump into the art world. Very common actually to see a lot of people that are in the arts making this transition. And so I'm like, yeah, there's something about being able to interpret the law, to talk to a very vast array of people from, you know, victims to perpetrators to judges to like whatever it is and it's, I mean, it's like a little world. You have to know a little bit about everything and so it yeah.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I guess that transition is kind of, I wanna say seamless, but it's like, oh, it makes sense. But, yeah, I think it's been a lot of remembering why am I doing this. Just if I was like, okay, like, what is a student visit? I remember her asking, like, what do you do on a studio visit? Like, it's also something so revered.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's like studio visits, like mystical encounters. And in a way it's like, yes, you're going to somebody's place of work. You have to show respect. You're entering this artist world. And so let them take the lead.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, don't come with your biases or with your preconceptions. Come with your, like, well, you do this. It reminds me of like, share, of course, but like, let them take the lead because artists don't often also get the chance to explain themselves.
Rob Lee:Right.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And to tell you in their own words, you know, what what their art is about. And so, like, that's a great opportunity to really understand what they're working. But then at the same time, it's also just visiting someone. Like, it doesn't have to be so mystical and like, oh, intimidating. You're gonna go visit some like, be a good guest.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So Yeah. The it it's not as scary when you think about it that way, but how funny it is that, like, within the art, I was like, oh, we're gonna plan a studio visit. Like, it's this, like, majestic thing, which it is. But also it's so normal and ordinary. And so it was a really cool, like there's, like, conversations about the meaning of things and the justification of things.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And it's inspired me to, like, write a blog. I'm like, maybe I should write about this. Like, the art of, you know, studio visits.
Rob Lee:I mean, there there have been in in in these interviews, there have been, some sort of the interviews at the studio, because a lot of them take place in this way, and, then there there there are sort of this sort of post, hey, we should get up, you know, you should check on my studio. We can, you know, chop it up, continue this conversation sort of in a different way. It it feels very like an honor. It's, like, wow, I'm getting invited here. You know, it's, like, this is actually where the magic happens, and then definitely when I come in or in the rare instances where I'd have someone come to my home studio to record, I've got 3 alters in the studio.
Rob Lee:So it's just like, look, man, got got the creative energy here. Don't don't come in here with your shoes on and they dirty. I don't I don't want that in here.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Absolutely.
Rob Lee:So I got I got, like, 3 more questions. And, so I wanna go into, sort of the the decision making process. Like, you know, obviously, we we have and you you had your notes at. Right? You're describing your notes at.
Rob Lee:So it's just like, yeah, I wanna do this. I wanna get it be as grand as possible. These are all the ideas. How do you delineate, you know, from, like, you know, who would be good for the show? What ideas are good, what sort of space, things of that nature.
Rob Lee:It can be for this the the current show could be for, you know, just general. But how do you really whittle down and refine what that show is gonna look like?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. Well, a lot of research, basically. I think that there's a lot of, like, what people don't see. You think a curator installs the work or, like, you select the artwork and it's there and, like, done. It's like 85% of the work is done before an exhibition even happens.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So studio visits are a great source of inspiration and knowledge and trying I is fast and I didn't see it that way before. I didn't know, of such a thing. Maybe I should incorporate this. Maybe I should, you know, ask this artist, like, what they think or, like, who do they like? Who are they inspired by?
Fabiola R. Delgado:And you start building these, you know, connecting the dots. For this particular show, I I already had some artists in mind. And again, for years, I'm, like, I wanna work with Kathy. I wanna work with, you know, Paloma. I I, like, I really want to, like, come together with them, and and I didn't have the opportunity.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So it was kinda like perfect timing. DCAC is like, do you wanna do a show? Do you wanna be part of this program? I was like, yes. Because I have art in in mine already.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So in that sense, it was a little easier because I didn't have to start, like, completely from scratch. But seeing, you know, and Carter, you know, was with me and, like, some of these studio visits and, like, reading about diaspora and what does it mean and what is it, you know, that connects you to home and, like, what does memory like, what's the role of memory? What what role does it play in, like, building your identity, and, like, the hybrids and the, you know, neosels that you can create for for you. It started making sense because people will have different ways of expressing. Some artists had self portraits, some artists were focused on the landscape, some artists, you know, were using different materials and have video.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'm like, oh, well, like, what's the like, the connecting piece is the diasporic experience, being part of a larger community that's extended. It's an extension from some place like the roots and the branches. But then to organize the show, it, it eventually became, you know, more evidence like, oh, like the introduction is the self. So we were using symbolism, within the self through portraiture, so self portraiture. Asha, Ilana Casey did for example, a self portraiture of self portrait of herself and as herself and like as 2 deities, you know, 2 Yoruba deities, which was an attempt of her, you know, to recuperate her own heritage, her own African ancestry, and so really beautiful.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Javed Nayar, who also did a self portrait, He painted himself as a as a teenager. He's Pakistani American, you know, born in Queens, New York, and like all of these mixes of yourself, were, you know, like how do I be both without having to hide one or the other when, you know, for as much of his life he was, you know, he felt like he needed to hide maybe some parts of himself to be accepted by the larger, you know, society. And so like I was like, oh, this is like an introduction. It's like symbolism of this dynamic within yourself. Like, how can you live different lives?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Then we enter we enter in, like, the space, the place, the territory. One of like that connection is Kathy Huertas who is, it's a mix between a landscape painting and a self portrait. It's actually her, from the back. So she, you can see is is her back and she's floating above a painting that she did from memory of Bogota where she was born in Colombia. And so I was like, oh my gosh, like how much does a place signify where you're from and who you are and, like, how do you feel in the world?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Then we have Paloma Biennet, who has a really striking, diptych of Ciudad Juarez on one side on one side of Mexico, and then on the other side, El Paso, Texas. And she's like, I grew up there. It's a border town, and I used to cross the street to go to school. And that relation is like, oh, well, I live in Mexico. I go to school in the United States.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's literally crossing the road. And so that painting is based on photographs that she took back here and then here. It's like, oh my gosh. Again, plays as this symbolic state of being. Eliana, everybody else, you know, kept playing with either plays, the self, or objects.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And so there's trays. There's food trays that Gerardo uses, to build a column that looks like it's sustaining the gallery. Rebecca Perez who deconstructs Tabata, which is like a house dress that a lot of Latinas and also a lot of African and Asian women used to like be around the house, do housework. There's different, embroidery hoops that Jocelyn Ramirez from the Dominican Republic, she painted over all these everyday objects. Actually, I have a pair of shoes right here.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So pairs of shoes, belts, clothes, plants, little things that are just everyday things. Who else? Inga, Ingaada, who, has a video in which she, she's wearing she actually made a jacket of this like membrane thing, you know, like the the dishwasher soap plasticky situation. It's not really plastic, but it dissolves Yeah. When you wash.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So she actually created that, and built a jacket off of this material that she made herself.
Rob Lee:Oh, wow.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And then it is washed off of her body. And so, like, the symbolism again of, like, an article of clothing that is there to protect you, but is also very vulnerable. And then finally, Elmer, I think did I mention all of them? Jubeck, Asha, Kathy, Paloma, Eliana, Jocelyn, Rebecca, El Gerardo. Yes.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Inga, and then Elmer who, made a, banik, that's banik is a mat. It's a sleeping mat. Usually in rural places in the Philippines, people sleep on these, like, woven mats of straw, different plants. And so he drew one out, it's also gigantic. It's like the size of me, it's like over 5 feet tall and like 4 feet wide, with pen, pen and paper.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So it's very, very intricate and delicate and so like, yeah, like, it's just so specific. So, so intricate. And and, yeah, it like also plays into, you know, the object and the symbolism of this object in which, you know, you remember your hometown, you remember your childhood, but memories are so fleeting and ink is permanent. So yeah, that's, that's where it became like, okay, the storyline or like the, the, the through line is diaspora. But also, like, the story goes symbolism of yourself, symbolism of the place, and then symbols of the actual objects, and what did they signify for us?
Rob Lee:Thank you. I I was keeping you honest. I was at the, the I'm
Fabiola R. Delgado:like, oh, I am talking a lot.
Rob Lee:No. No. No. No. I had the, DC, AC, up, and I was just like, uh-huh.
Rob Lee:Let's make sure we got each one of them. I was like, that's in 1.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I know. I'm like, oh, there are 10 of them, and I'm all like, it's like, one, 2, this.
Rob Lee:You did it. So that's what matters. So I'm gonna hit you with the the the heaviest question that I got in this pod, and then, I got some rapid fire ones. I've been typing away. You know, I said initially it was a couple.
Rob Lee:It's several now. But this is the the heavier question, and I think it's a good way to kinda round off everything. Right? So heavy question, definitely what's your take? How can, like, arts leaders balance, like, challenging, like, dominant narratives?
Rob Lee:And we've we've kinda touched on this in different pieces throughout this conversation, But, you know, challenge those sort of dominant narratives in in uplifting marginalized voices, especially when it comes to who is the right voice, you know, who's considered black enough or or brown enough. What are your your your thoughts in that area? And and I say that from from this position. I I was, at a I was at an unveiling of a, thing about black art not too too long ago, and I had a buddy who is a black artist, African, dude, or what have you, and he was getting a sort of rejection in in that rejection. It was I don't know if your work is black enough, essentially.
Rob Lee:And and so it's a weird take, and then he he felt a way about it. And it made me kinda think about that from me doing these interviews and and and having those conversations with folks and I thought I'd get your take.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a loaded question. And I was thinking, I'm like, this feels like it's a response to something,
Rob Lee:but
Fabiola R. Delgado:I don't know what is exactly. I'm like, this is like, somebody made a comment, so thank you for sharing. I'm like, what is this response to? And, I think there's like many questions within the same one, so I kinda wanna break it down. First, the the issue of balance.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You know, when we speak of balance, it implied that there's multiple issues situated, like, in equal standing. And that has never been the case ever in history. Like nothing, no 2 things and more than 2 things are always in the same, you know, position and have the same value at the same time. The same excluded and erased and hidden and just destroyed from actual history, from main, you know, stream discourse. So, yeah, like when we were speaking on balance, like I'm not interested in, in a balance or like the appearance of equality.
Fabiola R. Delgado:My focus is on shifting the weight and highlighting and amplifying stories of people that don't often, you know, get, the platforms to do that have been neglected for so long. And that shifting of the weight, it kinda like, you know, fixes the imbalances of the past. You know? It's not my interest to like, oh maybe we should have equal black stories and white story. Like it's been white history forever.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Maybe it's somebody else's turn. And that's where, you know, we earlier spoke about, you know, difference of equality and equity. Equity involves recognizing that different groups have different necessities and different opportunities and different starting points, so you need to provide different resources. Sure. For everybody then to have an equal outcome.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And this means giving that extra attention and extra support to stories that have been neglected. And, yeah, it's like giving them their due. Yeah. You know, their, the, the respect and the recognition they, that they deserve. I and it's big like this is what I see as a work of justice and it's giving people what they deserve.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And I think of, like, Ulpiano, I'm gonna get, like, oh, the lawyer, but, like, that's something that you learn very early on. Like, first thing in in law school, like, the meaning of justice. And in Venezuela, we we study Roman or like the foundation of, you know, a lot of countries is Roman law and some others in US is like a mix between Roman, German. But in, like, the year 200, some guy, Ulpi, I don't know, Juris from the Roman Empire, from, like, Syria, current Lebanon, but it was obviously colonized. It was an empire.
Fabiola R. Delgado:He defined justice as, oh my gosh. See if I can remember in Latin. It's like, sum. So, like, justice is the consent and perpetual desire to give everyone that, you know, what they deserve, what they're entitled to. And so doing this kind of work and not really trying to achieve balance, but actually shifting weights, then you can contribute to a more comprehensive, a more truthful understanding of of histories.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's about justice to me. Then there's like a thing about, you know, the right voice and whether you are black or brown enough. You know, I don't think there is a right voice to do anything. I I think because it is a singular thing Yeah. It's not it's gonna be impossible.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You know? Just like balance, it it'll never happen because there's not such thing as like a monolithic experience. It's like, oh, well, let's have the white history and the black history. And then within both of them, there will be 1,000,000 and billions of stories. So like how do you balance billions of stories?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like that's impossible. And then the right voice is also a singular, you know, term. It's also gonna be impossible. Art leaders should aim to have as many voices and showcase a wide range of perspectives because then this acknowledges that there is no one way of being, of doing, of playing, of experiencing life. And, you know, showing this multiplicity of of perspectives and narratives, it it provides a richer, you know, representation of things.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's more interesting. It's more nuanced. And we, like, can be, like, you know, it's more exemplary and but it's also more fun. And to be honest, then you escape tokenism. Like, oh, well, we're gonna have 1 black artist in this sea of white artists.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, and then you're accused of tokenism. Like, well, then maybe open up your horizons a little bit. And then the part of being black or brown enough to sell, that's really tough because it's it it feels reductive. You know, if people are valuing you just on your identity or your appearance, then like then what that we're just perpetuating the systemic racism, systemic classism, sexism, you know. It's like, oh, the valley, like, you're, oh, it's just it sounds so like painful to even say black or brown enough to sell.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I think it's problematic to assign, you know, value to somebody based on their identity. And this kind of thinking just, yeah, it's perpetuating the systemic injustice that we've inherited for centuries and millennia. And yeah, we just need to, like, not divest from that and maybe even, like, dig deep. Like, why are we then assigning a specific value to what? I feel like there's some time trends in the art market, that, you know, are maybe a response to a backlash and people finally, having maybe more opportunities like social media to, like, put themselves out.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's a lot of, you know, history fixing over time just as everything is is utopia. So I'm like, yeah. Like, the country or whatever, the state of the world is never perfect, but we can definitely say we're better off than, you know, 30 and 40 and a 100 years ago. And so perhaps these trends happen as a result of that, but it's just deeply problematic to still assign people a value based on how you look like. Also like it kind of makes us delve into like representational politics, you know.
Fabiola R. Delgado:We recently had a woman elected in Mexico and like just because somebody's a woman doesn't mean that they're gonna have the best intentions for women in their country or just because somebody's black. And the mayor of a major city, let's say, doesn't mean he, like, his values along with the values of the people of New York, mayor Adams. So, You know, that also is like, it's problematic to just assign value, but also we can't just assume that somebody will be good or whatever just because they're a woman or because they're black or because they're Latino. You have to really like dig deeper than that. It's just so superficial.
Fabiola R. Delgado:So in that sense, we need to take a deep look into our motivations. In the case of art, you know, people buy art for multiple reasons. Some people buy art as investments, as philanthropy, as money laundering schemes. I you know, why is this happening? Like, let's try to follow the money and try to figure out, you know, what that is.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And maybe, I don't know if we'll ever have, like, an ethical reawakening, but that is what, you know, is at stake. I buy art because I like it, because I love my friends. Some of these have been, like, you know, friends who were like, yo, I'm struggling a little bit. I'm like, yeah. I'll buy it.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Also because I like it. I like you. I like this. I I like the stories that they, you know, tell, and I can always remember. Like I can point at each of them and be like, this was so and so.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It happened here. He told me about this one. I fell on the cliff and he gave me then look at this was a gift. Like it just has so much to, like, an emotional connection. So, like, that's why I buy art.
Fabiola R. Delgado:But, yeah, I would question why some other people buy or don't buy or, you know, exhibit artwork. You know, just buy what you like. Buy what you love. That's my my advice. And I'm still encouraged, like, despite these kinds of, yeah, challenges and and silly conversations about who deserves to be shown or not, like, who is the right one?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, there is space for everybody and I'm really encouraged by artists who, you know, are coming together and making waves and creating movements throughout and because they have that ability to like tap into themselves and not just expose their more inner thoughts, but really put a mirror on society and be like, hey, this is what you should be doing. This is what you should not be doing. This is something that I see. Have you considered maybe changing? And artists can help us reconfigure these categories that we have, you know, dumbly and sometimes blindly and sometimes purposefully like falling into and the tokenism and the biases and all these discrimination.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Artists are able to, like, really just flip the script script and and make visible what we, you know, sometimes don't see. So, kudos to all the artists and curators, you know, maybe take that opportunity to amplify them, those practices, and expand on those experiences.
Rob Lee:Thank you. Thank you, and thank you. I'm sitting here, like, fist pumping. My teeth are out the entire time because I'm smiling. So so thank you for that.
Rob Lee:And and that is a really good sentiment and a good spot for us to close on the real questions. And I got, like, 4 rapid fire questions
Fabiola R. Delgado:that might be tips. Awesome. Terrible. A rapid fire. No.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Rapid fire. No. No. No. No.
Fabiola R. Delgado:No. No.
Rob Lee:It'll be great. It'll be great. So as I tell people all the time, don't overthink these. You know, it's like what I said is what I said. This is, you know, first thing that pops in your head.
Rob Lee:Mhmm. Alright. How many hours of sleep do you typically get?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, 8.
Rob Lee:You are lucky. I'm at 6.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. No. I I really tried.
Rob Lee:Okay. I I dig it. Could you name the artist that first made you fall in love with Hart?
Fabiola R. Delgado:I mean Or
Rob Lee:piece or piece of work.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'm I mean, I think it would be music still. When I was very, very little, I I had a TV in my room, which is but anyway, I we had TVs in everywhere. I was like, now I'm like, oh, that's probably not the best, but also very fun. And I was, like, 3 years old, and I was flipping channels and I saw an opera, and I don't remember which opera it was, but I just like grabbed my blanket and then I just sat in front of it and I just watched it and started crying. And my mom, I remember she come until like she remembers, she tells us stories like, oh my gosh, like I saw fun.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, so yeah, like music in every way, and I don't know what opera that was. And she doesn't know either. She just knows that it was an opera, and it made me cry and I knew then and there I'm like in my 3 tiny year old body, like there is something that's bigger than us. I'm like, it was a spiritual experience, even as a toddler.
Rob Lee:That's that's amazing. Thank you. That that's really good. You really set the stage there. I love that.
Rob Lee:This this relates to something you said earlier. Approximately, how many mugs do you have?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Mugs. I have way less now, because I did a deep cleanse, and then I regretted it because I got rid of so many of the mugs that I had from bars in DC. I used to have like maybe 20 ish that were all from places that I played, like anywhere that I performed, people's houses, bars, clubs, 9:30, whatever, like DC 9. I took some of your mugs. You won't notice them.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You never notice them. And then I was like, okay. Yeah. No. I need to clean.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, let's minimize. Let's have what we need. So no. I think we now have, I'll say, like, maybe 10. But I I recently, I got married and my, husband's I was with my boyfriend's.
Fabiola R. Delgado:My boyfriend and my husband's parents are potters. So we actually have a lot of monks, but because they make them, they're they're just special ones.
Rob Lee:Nice. Okay. This is the last one that I got for you, and I'll preface it by by saying a bit. I I never know what to wear, right, when I go to an opening, which is why I'm like, I don't have glasses tiny enough or scarves big enough to go to an opening, but I'm always looking for, like, who's who really put in some work, and I find that a lot of times, curators are, like, super, super, duper fashionable. So how would you describe your fashion sense?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Curator. Curatorial. No. You know, I had a really interesting experience when I was trying to, like, make that switch. Like, am I a lawyer?
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, and I was almost, you know, an ombudsperson at the Pan American Health Organization. Like, I was making way to, to like working as a lawyer or like law law adjacent international human rights like something. And then I was like, I need to get out of this world. And the thing that made me, like realize, like maybe I wanna change careers. Maybe, maybe dreams do change.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like maybe I'm just different and I like, this is not a bad thing. I just, I'm just different because people change was because I, I started giving tours at the Heershorn. I, that's how, that was my very first start also in like the art world, so called art world, museum world. I was a gallery guy at the Heersharn, and, so you wear all black. That's the uniform.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Wear whatever you want, but wear all black, comfy shoes because you're standing and walking a lot. And I remember seeing myself in the mirror with, like, black leggings, a black, you know, dress on top, and then I had a shawl, and I had, like, my top knot. And I was, like, I like looking like this. Like, I like wearing this. I feel I feel like I can look good, and I feel comfortable.
Fabiola R. Delgado:And I'm wearing my sneakers. I was like, I can go crazy with my sneakers. I'll have, like, really funky ones and everything else black. And I was like, this is so much more comfortable and much more fun even if it's not, like, the funkiest thing than wearing a suits and wearing a, you know, a blazer. And that that really that was 1 a a small push.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It wasn't the biggest push, but it was a small push, like, maybe I should just change careers, because this is how I wanna dress. Well, I would dress in black. But, yeah, very comfortable and black.
Rob Lee:That's dope. That's dope. And it's good to hear that, because, like I said, I don't know who to wear, but hearing, like, comfortable and black. Okay.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Yeah. That's it.
Rob Lee:So I'm here for you.
Fabiola R. Delgado:People get intimidated. Art can be so intimidated. Our museums, our galleries are, again, historically spaces for the rich, for the wealthy, for the white, for the, you know, for the people who know. Like, you don't know this artist. And, like, sometimes they make you feel bad.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Like, no. I don't know. Like, I don't know everything. Do you know how to, like, change the diaper? I don't know.
Fabiola R. Delgado:It's like, I bet that I know some of that you don't. And so I am, like, always fighting that. Like, don't want to, like, come as you are. It's not fancy. I like to sometimes dress up because I don't get, you know, that chance a lot.
Fabiola R. Delgado:I'm installing I'm literally in my sweatpants. You see me right now, like, oh, my linen, white, button up, and I'm wearing pajama pants underneath.
Rob Lee:As as one does.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You know? It's just like, yeah, I just have to be comfortable that I'm handling a lot of stuff. And so for the opening, like, celebratory, but also comfy.
Rob Lee:I love it. So that's kinda it for the pod. Right. So there are 2 things I wanna do as we close out here. 1, I wanna thank you so much for spending some time with me.
Rob Lee:This is, just really cool, really fun conversation. And, and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you, this is the shameless plug portion, encourage you to share with the listeners, information on the exhibition, where they can find you on social media, website, all that good stuff. The floor is yours.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Thank you so much. I'm really honored to have been invited to the podcast. Thank you so much for this time. You're such an easy conversation, and it's been really fun, to be here. And for the shameless plug, you can follow me on the grams.
Fabiola R. Delgado:My Instagram is my name at favela.rdelgado. R is my first last name, rondon, but I just cut it to the r. Delgado, second last name. Latina stuff. Fabiola r delgado.
Fabiola R. Delgado:Also, that's my email or well, yes. It's not my email. But my website, fabiolardelgado.com. And, yeah, come see the show. Between, Through, Across is at DC Art Center.
Fabiola R. Delgado:You can follow them at dc art centers as well on Instagram and the website. It's there until June 30th. We will be having an artist talk on June 23rd, and then the celebration closing celebration is on the 30th. The artist talk is from 3 to 4, June 23rd. Closing reception, 30th from 5 to 7.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Fabiola r Delgado for coming on to the podcast, and I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
