Welcome to The Truth in THis art, your source for conversations at the intersections of arts, culture, and community. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for joining me. Today, I am excited to be in conversation with my next guest, a visual artist known for his portraiture and figurative painting. Originally from the Bay Area, now based in Philadelphia, his work conveys complex narratives around race, gender, and, of course, black joy.
Rob Lee:In aiming to uplift the African diaspora through art, Please welcome Christopher Williams, the Black Da Vinci. Welcome to the podcast.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Thank you so much for having me. This is a big blessing, and, yeah. Thank you so much, man.
Rob Lee:Thank you for coming on. Glad we were able to talk a little bit before going in. And, you know, you know, you you have that initial conversation with someone, you can already tell, like, no. It's it's gonna it's gonna click.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It's gonna click. You can already tell.
Rob Lee:Sometimes I'll get someone. It's like it's like sometimes conversation, right, in my head. It's like one of those dances. I got 2 left feet, right, or 2 right feet, whatever the saying might be.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And me me me too.
Rob Lee:So yeah. And you're like, man, I'm trying not to step on you. You don't step on me. It's that, but this is gonna go really well. So before we get into the the the deeper questions, I'd like to give you the space to introduce yourself in your own words.
Rob Lee:I I find often folks that look like me and you, we're Mhmm. You know, it's framed in a certain way. We have to do all of these different things to get across what our stuff is about, what our work is about. And Yeah. Something always is lost in that attempt because it's just satisfied so many other things.
Rob Lee:So here's that opportunity right right now to introduce yourself, you know, authentically. Please.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Well, my name is Christopher Williams. Some people call me the black da Vinci, and my work is about black joy, black skin, the black body, and, experiences.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So, you know, whether I travel to, you know, another country, or travel to another state, you know, my black joy carries with me and I, you know, feed on culture, feed on music, you know, and and things of that sort. And that's what, I try to bring into my artwork. So, yeah, that's me in a nutshell. Thank you. It's great.
Rob Lee:Thank you. And and it's it's it's it's great to hear that. Like, you know, just this is what it is. And this is, you know, in hearing about the experience piece, I was recently in, in New York, and I was just up for just something, you know, just goofy. I was gonna see an anime expo.
Rob Lee:That's what I was here for. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It was Alright. It
Rob Lee:was anime NYC. Yeah. Really dope, and I was able to see one of my friends. And I didn't feel that pressure of trying to do multiple things because I'm wearing a journalist hat. I'm doing Yeah.
Rob Lee:And, you know, sometimes I even do a movie review podcast that I've sat on for a long time. I haven't touched it for a while, but that's one of my, like, areas of joy. And I say all of this to say, like, feeling like you're on, and I do this thing at times of, am I doing this for fun, or am I doing this for an experience? And something clicked on the train back as I commuted up to New York from Baltimore. I dove back into a, an audiobook that I unabashedly steal from as far as coming up with questions and insights, you know, steal like an artist.
Rob Lee:And I had my notepad in my hand, and I just came up with, like, 30 questions. Just Nice. Different insights, and I was like and some of these have have worked themselves into this conversation, so I had to to test them out if you will. Yes. So, yeah, just hearing about, like, experience showed up in your work, it's it's dope.
Rob Lee:And, so speaking of experience. Yes. What is that the first piece you know or early piece that really caught your imagination?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, look.
Rob Lee:Oh, no. I thought you're pointing at this
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):one, but no, early piece that caught my imagination. Oh, because I had to sit and think about this because I was looking at the question. I was like, oh my goodness. This is a hard one. I have to say there was a watercolor I did back in 2004.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. And it was called chocolate Mondays. And the reason why I painted chocolate Mondays, it was this black woman in watercolor, hair messed up. And, you know, she's just like she has, like, this strong gaze, you know, staring at the viewer. And that spoke to me because it it was like, okay.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You need to investigate our own skin. Tone. We need to investigate, you know, the different layers of of us because we have some people that, you know, as black folks say, you're so dark that you're, you know, purple or blur bright, and then you got some, you know, the high yellow skin tone. If you look, why don't you, you know, really investigate the black skin tone and talk about that? Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And how there's different layers, there's different variations of us. And, even though we may be light, even though we may be really dark, you know, we could still get up on Monday. Yeah. And we face a day and we start our week. And so that piece, chocolate Mondays, is what really stood out to me.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And, that got me into investigating my own skin, my own, you know, culture and and, things of that sort. Thank you.
Rob Lee:It's, that it's great. And I you know, it's it's that that meme I saw. I spent a little time online, right, and promoting. I I just remember this. It was a thing that was a bit, and it's really funny.
Rob Lee:It's this guy doing the street interviews, and he'd asked this this brother with the the fro. He was like, so, you know, what's your the your most disliked race? He's like, race is a social construct. We're all just shades of wheat.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):This is amazing.
Rob Lee:And then you see, like,
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):the Lord of the Day of
Rob Lee:Color and Yeah. You know, being able to explore sort of the the regularness. Right? Like Monday is a thing that we all encounter, so regular. Yeah.
Rob Lee:You know, like Garfield. Right? Hey, Mondays or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Monday is a thing that we all encounter. And I I I remember at times I play with it, especially when I'm when I'm in rooms with people that don't necessarily look like me. Mhmm. I'm a 6 foot 4 black man.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So You're taller than me. I'm 5 10. So it's it's it's hard at the time. Yeah. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It's hot. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So sometimes I play with it, and in fact, it it is a point. I never really got it over, but I might bring it back. I used to go to coffee shops, and I ordered cortados or lattes. I said, so how much how much milk do you want in there? And I would name the color of a black person from history.
Rob Lee:It's like, yes, I want that to be Malcolm X. I want that to
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):be and I remember going to a coffee shop, you know
Rob Lee:Nice. In Baltimore, and the person was a little down with it. She was just like, okay. That's really funny. She's like Yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. I like that. In February. So I appreciate what you're doing. Oh, thank you.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I like that. I'm gonna use that. Please. I'm just gonna throw off. Throw off some people, and they're gonna look at me like I'm crazy.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But, hey, I like that. I feed off that energy. That's awesome.
Rob Lee:And and and as we're we're here, we're again, something regular. We're we're exchanging a few things, and and Sharon will laugh here. To me Yeah. That's an extension of black joy. And you touched on that as a piece and a big proponent and in part of your work.
Rob Lee:Could you speak on what does black joy mean
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):to you? Wow. I really had to go back to the Harlem Renaissance. And if you look at a lot of the paintings, of the Harlem Renaissance, it's about, skill. It's about family.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It's about, progression. It's about going to the club, you know, on a Friday night and, you know, listening to, you know, the the, you know, latest jazz singer in that era. Right? And they were joyous because of what happened with the Jim Crow era and all that stuff. It's like, hey.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):We we're free. We, you know, we could we could make our own destiny. And and if you look at that era, that was just pure joy. And then if you skip it to, you know, what happened during the civil rights movement, and then, you know, you got Martin Luther King, you know, you got Malcolm X, you got all these assassinations. And all of a sudden, our work was about pain Mhmm.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Struggle. Right? And then we started to slowly come out in the eighties and the million man march and all that stuff, and now we're back, I think, you know, out of the pandemic. You know, You know? Brianna Taylor, George Floyd, please rest in peace.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But, you know, we're we're holding on now, and we're looking like, hey. We have identity again. You know? We're we're not just, you know, people for slaughter. We are a joyous race.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):We play chess like Maurice Ashley. You know? Who who knows? We're gonna have for the first, and, you know, woman president, black woman president, Kamala Harris. You know?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You know, we're we're we're we're moving forward in, music and all that stuff. And I think we're back in this cycle where, you know, we're gonna progress as as a, you know, as a race here and show them, hey. We are awesome intellectually. You know, we are awesome musically, and we're awesome artistically. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So, that's where, black joy to me, I noticed a long answer here, but it's about all of our different experiences. Your experiences are different than mine. Yeah. Right? And so, ours is different than, you know, someone else.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But, you know, whether it be sports, whether it be, like I said, the game of chess, whether it be music, you know, we have these different things that we just love. And that makes us who we are. And our, diaspora is different. We're not a monolith. So and that's what joy is about.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm learning about you. You're learning about me. And that's right there is black joy. Yeah. And and that's what I love about it.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You know, celebrating each other.
Rob Lee:Hell, yeah. I love it. It's, you know, I did for I wanna say right before this podcast started back in 2019, I did a podcast called, unofficially black with one of my, buddies. And, you know, our perspectives we we had some overlap and some similarity, but as you're describing, like, our our stories are different. Our our our
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah.
Rob Lee:Lived experiences are different. And
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):can beat you on this.
Rob Lee:One of the things that, you know, it bore out of was, you know, we both enjoy, like, Japanese wrestling. We enjoy these things that are, quote, unquote
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, nice.
Rob Lee:Black enough or what have you. Right? And Yeah. We started kinda examining you know, it it was done with, like, comedic intent. We were covering, like, hot topics and things of that nature, but we would have our, quote, unquote, not black enough bent to it, but discussing sort of these black topics and what it is from from our perspectives as
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah.
Rob Lee:You know, 2 30 ish black guys at the time. And, you know, I I feel like at times I wanna bring that back because I think we we do this thing at times where it can't be normal. It has to be sort of this weird and I struggle with it, but this weird idea of black excellence or what have you. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Excellence feels like pressure sometimes.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And That's interesting. Oh, keep going. Keep going.
Rob Lee:I wanna I wanna we can talk about this. It
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):feels it feels like pressure sometimes where
Rob Lee:it's just like, I can't just be regular. I can't can't be standard for myself, but I can't Yeah. Regular. It's just like Yeah. Because there's there's levels.
Rob Lee:Like, you know, we have really good, and this is gonna be a question that comes up later. You know, part of this question comes up later. We have really good. We have excellent. We have not so good.
Rob Lee:We have bad, but there's a sort of scale and continuum. But Yeah. For you to be considered worthy or worthwhile, your perspective to be worthwhile has to be excellent if you're black. That's what it plays sometimes. And maybe maybe I'm wrong, but that's what that podcast and that attempt was trying to examine in a sort of haphazard way.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. That's that's interesting. And and, your point is it's valid. And the reason why I said I wanted to talk about it, Mark, because I wanted to hear your point because with me looking at, my institution, which is really awesome, Moore College of Art and Design, over here in Philly. Really nice, organization.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):They have, only one scholarship Yeah. For, our black students, and that's only if you are in need. But nothing to showcase the excellence. So I love your your, your part on that because, yeah, you don't wanna feel pressured. And then in my point of view, sometimes you wanna celebrate.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You know? Yeah. Celebrate that. So, yeah, I I like your point. I never thought of it like that.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So good jobs on on explaining that. Okay. Because, I'm I'm I want to because there's no, scholarship, that revolves around excellence or joy, I'm gonna try to bring that to my institution because of the fact, you know, these young black women, young black trans students, you know, they really work hard, and I think they need something to celebrate because there's other scholarships that celebrate excellence, but they're not included. Right. Right.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So I'm gonna I'm gonna try to bring something just for them. So instead of calling it Black Excellence, I think I'm just gonna call it the Black Joy, you know, award. And, so yeah. Thank you for that. Sorry.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):No. That's that's here. But yeah.
Rob Lee:Like I said, you know, what we what we're doing is what we're doing, and that's Yeah. It's great. Because I think, you know, sort of the regularness and the the the joy component, I think having that moment to be be mindful of everything and not just go after sort of this achievement thing. It's like and I and I'm baking this in that
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):all of that
Rob Lee:should be there. It's just but you should have a standard for yourself and all of that stuff in your work. But, you know, literally, it's it's like you know, and I'm moving to this next question, but it's like, you know, I've had conversations with different podcasters, and I spent some time in Philly. I did, like, you know, a better part of a year of interviews up there. And, you you know, it's just like, well, I need to be the top dog in this space.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Mhmm. Mhmm.
Rob Lee:Mhmm. And
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):it's
Rob Lee:just this needless competition. It's like we all should be pushing each other. But, you know, I feel like that idea, you start seeing who's behind driving that and giving out those funds. Yeah. They're not people about the cause or the culture or whatever it might be.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Black joy, macroly speaking.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Damn. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I like that.
Rob Lee:So, you know, as as we've kinda kinda got into some of other stuff, which I you know, it's like I knew it was gonna go in a direction, but, Yeah. Yeah. Could could you because I I like, again, I you know, I I didn't say this, but as I'm looking at the the work in the background, your your work is is tight. I love it.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.
Rob Lee:And even in the research you're welcome. And and then even in the research, it got me curious. I gotta ask, could you describe your your art process? Like, you know, was that that beginning stage? Like, what is that initial like?
Rob Lee:Alright. I think I wanna capture this. Oh, this is an idea I'm thinking really curious about what what would that would look like on Canvas. Talk a bit about sort of, yeah, that process for you.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So, it all starts off with the sketch. Yeah. And so for example, the the one behind me, like, right behind me, that one's called, Checkmate. Mhmm. And it's a new series about, chess.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm taking actual friends and family and people that I meet, and I'm creating, paintings, and and turning them to Afrofuturistic, chess pieces, whether it from clay or, you know, on on canvas. So, what I try to do is, like, your process where you're interviewing, I'm interviewing that person and trying to really connect with them spiritually or connect with their auras. That way, I can try to pull colors and, try to pull a scene together that can resonate, you know, with, my audience. Yeah. So it starts off with the sketch, and then I'm sketching.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And I'm thinking about the interview that I I had with them or just a brief conversation. And then I listen to music. And I don't ask the person what type of music they listen to, but I have tons of music on on, you know, my tunes. And I'm like, you know, this person reminds me of gospel. And I'll pull up old school, take 6, old school win ins, you know, commission, you know, a lot of, you know, just like the old school, just hardcore gospel.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'll listen to that to pump me up, and then I start to paint. You know, sometimes it will flip on on certain side. I'm listening to most depth. You know, I you know, guys in Bay, you know that, you know, that's that's one of my favorite artists. And, you know, then I'll flip and I'll listen to jazz.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So it's like just like our moods are, you know, painting it with different waves with different storms. And that's how my process works. You know, when I'm when I'm trying to paint, you know, these lovely, people and put them, you know, with the series.
Rob Lee:I love it. It's, you know, it's it's an artist I know. I really dig, and I I like hearing when people have musical accompaniment, and it's the music is thoughtful and kinda noticing the, I guess, like, sort of maybe the mood that that it matches itself. And I would imagine that goes into it. So, like, you know, there's one artist that comes to mind.
Rob Lee:He's always listening to house music super loud, and he's getting it. And I know when I'm coming up with questions, I can't have lyrics on. I can't have any lyrics on. It's just gotta be something almost like I'm coding because I'm just typing. It's just Yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah. I taught it music. Yeah. So for for you when it comes to the music component, you know, kind of serving as a soundtrack, if you will, literally a soundtrack for for creating the works.
Rob Lee:Is there, you know have you noticed, like, alright, you know, I think this plays a bit better here, this particular artist or this particular sort of pace of music, or is there, like, art playlist number 500, you know, working on this piece that you title it to have it as part of, like when you're going back into and looking at you created this work, you finished this work. These are the songs I played for, played during the process. Talk about that a little bit.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So this is gonna sound really weird. And and, so sometimes I listen to the same song over and over and over again. And so, it just it depends on the piece. Because I have a gospel playlist. I have a rap playlist.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I have a jazz playlist. Sometimes I'll, you know, have an anatomy playlist that I play in my anatomy class when I'm teaching, and I'll I'll pull some songs from there. But, it depends on the piece. For example, the piece that is the self portrait here, this one was on the l word, generation q on season 3 episode 2. But that's a piece about my father and I.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And he passed away before, you know, I was able to do the the piece. Yeah. And, so I put his bible, which you can't see because everything's covered right now. But, there's a bible with a empty seat. And the spot is sitting on the seat.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And, so he had, his favorite two songs from the Winans album in the eighties. You know, and I play that over and over again, and I just kept painting. And, I it got to the point where I knew, the drumstair to the guitar thing to, you know, you know, everything about that song, but it that connected me with my father, and that connected me with the piece. So, yeah, it's it's it's it's really weird. I have these really weird quirks, with it when it's music.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And if I get in the groove and I like that song, I will play it over and over and over until I'm done for that hour or done for that 4 hours. Yeah. Yeah. So you imagine listening to the same song for 4 hours. And, you know, some people will will get, you know, they're like, oh my god.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Just stop it. But me, I'm in my space. That's how I connect.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. I can see the, you know, the the care because that's that's the one as I've seen. Maybe it's because I'm looking at you, and it's directly behind you that that's that's popping so much. And it's it's almost like the look on he's self partured the look on it. It's almost like a dad energy that's like, look, like, look.
Rob Lee:So, like, oh, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, this this sort of, the visual there.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, thank you.
Rob Lee:And as a person who's listening to a song on loop for hours, like, let's you know, like, you're speaking my language.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Well, this this sometimes it just hits, man. It's just like you what what what are you feeling that day? And, yeah, just before talking to you, I was playing, Take 6, something within me. You know, and how, you know, the lead vocalist comes out and his voice is so strong. And I'm not gonna sing because then, you know, I don't want your ears to bleed through the through the connection, but, you know, it it's just like the voice is just resonating.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm just like, yeah. And I'm just painting. And, you know, and and touching up pieces. I'm like this. I'm feeling joyous.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Right? And then sometimes I listen to Snoop. Yeah. I listen to Snoop.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm like, alright. I'm starting off here. I'm starting this piece, and I want this piece to be, you know, kinda hard and powerful. And so I'm gonna listen to Snoop. I'm gonna listen to e forty, you know, because I'm from the Bay originally.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You know? And and so, I'm gonna listen to, you know, a lot of my, you know, artists that I grew up on. So yeah.
Rob Lee:Yeah. And I I imagine, like, even when it goes to connecting to a memory, that stuff is that much more it's, like, sort of available to you. It's like, oh, I gotta dive into I'm trying to tap back into maybe the thinking I had as a young person if this piece relates to something from my youth or Yeah. When I'm you know, I'll I'll say, like, I have playlists, and I know we're talking about music, but I have playlists on the weekends. So generally, you know, I'm prepping questions and preparing and researching pretty much for, like, 4 hours on Fridays, like, for the interviews that are coming up on the following week.
Rob Lee:And Mhmm. I have sort of a, like, a prepaid playlist and then sort of a working playlist of, like, lyrics, sort of working playlist and that pre playlist. It might be house music. It might be old freestyle, like, you know, like Latin freestyle. It's it's wild.
Rob Lee:Nice.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. I like that. That pump up
Rob Lee:the energy. Just get get the good energy going, and it is Friday. Yeah. And so Yeah. That's that's a piece of it.
Rob Lee:But, so I wanna I wanna hear a bit about, you know, the prework, the ideas that that go into it. I wanna I wanna hear about it, you know, from this this way, like, where, you know, you know you wanna explore certain things, what have you. Like Yeah. When I'm planning out a season and I'm right now, this is sort of the tail end of season 9, and I'm already prepping for season 10, which will start in January, and I already have, like, a tight idea in mind as to how I'm gonna go about it, so now I'm really filling in and starting to do the outreach and so on, and I'm getting excited, you know, about it. And it's not here yet, you know.
Rob Lee:We're talking about interviews that at the earliest will happen in mid December, but I'm excited for it. We're recording this at the end of August, so I'm but I'm excited. And, you know, that's a that's a feeling. You know, sometimes when I'm doing a bunch a bunch of volume, as you touched on the number of episodes,
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):you
Rob Lee:know, you get up for some more than other. All all I'm happy to do and all I'm excited about, but there are some where it's like, I'm really interested in this. Like, you make that? Hell, yeah. I'm looking forward to talking to you.
Rob Lee:And Mhmm. And as I said before we got when we first got started, you can almost tell based on the person's personality, their energy that this is gonna go well. So for you in that free work stage, when you're getting to, like, these are ideas, these are the themes, this is the checklist maybe of, yeah, I'm gonna do these pieces. These are the 10 pieces I wanna do for a particular guest and show. What are the signs that you're in the right direction?
Rob Lee:What are those signs of, alright, maybe I need to spend a little bit more time with this as far as even before, you know, the sketch, before any, like, quote, unquote, art is done?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Research. Like like like, you know, I'm on the computer researching. Yeah. And then I will go to the, the places that are prominent. For example, this chest series that I'm working on.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. What better place to go to New York? Mhmm. And, I'm researching how many black chess masters are there. And there's only 2 black, chess masters.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):There's 1 black woman that wants to be a chess she's working hard and to be the 1st black woman chess master. Right? And I'm like, okay. You know, every time I see a movie in the park, you see an old black man, you know, playing chess. Right?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And, you know, he's on that concrete slab. He's playing chess, and they have that taker. You you can't see a movie without seeing that. Yep. And and I'm like, that's a master right there.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You know? I wanna go I'm not gonna play these hustlers because they they'll they'll take my money. You know, I'm good. I'm I'm decent, but I'm not that good. That that this one guy beat me pretty bad.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But and he was funny. He was a nice gentleman. But, I'd I'd like to go there and research. Yeah. Get connected with the environment.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Feel the environment. Yeah. And and really, you know, sit back with it and be like, okay, how can I make a series to celebrate black intellect in chess and, show, the beauty and, the culture and and things of that sort? So I really you know, it's it's a message board on my sketchbook. It's a lot sometimes the name of the sketch is just writing.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. And it's like, okay. Should I do this? Oh, how would I depict, you know, a young woman, you know, as a pawn? How would I pick depict a black woman as a queen?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Or how do I depict a king? Well, am I gonna make him strong? Or am I gonna make the heavy weight on his shoulders? So I'm always depicting, like, okay. How do I do this?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):What, what is the emotion I'm trying to, you know, give the viewer? And how do I make how am I gonna make it pull what colors I'm gonna use? Yeah. And so, sometimes in in my sketchbook, I'll do the initial sketch, and and then I'll, do a little bit of colored pencil, take some matte gel medium with acrylic, take a roller, roll over it, and then color on top of that. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So I can, play around, with colors in the background. And if I'm gonna do purple, I'm gonna do white, I'm gonna do blue. How is that going to affect the black skin tone? And that's how, I kinda bring everything together. And then I'm like, okay.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Let's pass or fail. Let's go ahead. No fear. Let's let's see what happens. And I try something new.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And and, it's nervous at times, and and you're like, oh, is this gonna look well? And is is this going to read well? But I'm gonna do it anyway. And, yeah, that's that's that's, the the process.
Rob Lee:Go going in fearless. There's there's no pace place for it. I mean, you know, having that fear when you're going into something. And one of the things that was very illuminating that that stuck out there, and, you know, I was touching on, you know, my series of interviews in Philadelphia. You know, clearly, my interviews are done like this via Zoom.
Rob Lee:I have sort of the best amount of control to to do it to make sure I get good audio. It's not being a control freak. It's making sure I get as good audio as possible possible. And, you know, when I went up there and I did this series called the truth in this art beyond because I was curious about Philly. I think Philly and Baltimore have a lot of similarities.
Rob Lee:So Mhmm. I was just like, let's go up there. And I went to Rec Philly over there in fashion district, that whole area.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Nice.
Rob Lee:And I was going up there for the better part of a year, every 2 weeks, spending the day up there, getting interviews, and I wanted to see what it would be like like you in the the park with the the chess masters and such Yeah. Sort of that energy. And it's one situation that comes to mind and made me laugh a lot. There was a guy who was running a little late, there was a guy I was interviewing, and he was like, yo, can you ping me in the, the IG? And he was like, yo, I'm a few minutes behind, I had to stop to get a cheese steak.
Rob Lee:I'll be there soon. Yeah. And I started laughing so far,
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):because I was like,
Rob Lee:this would not have happened if it was a Zoom. It wouldn't be a point of clarity. It's like, yo, you're up here. I need to get there. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Or even, you know, this. I don't you know, I'm born and bred Baltimore. I don't have the accent or what have you, so people Yeah. There was one guy interviewed. He was like, you're from here.
Rob Lee:Right? I was like, I am not. I Yeah. And but it was sort of my attempt to to try to connect, to try to be there and be immersed, not in a, you know, taking cultural vulture sort of way, but I was like, this feels like the thing I should do. Let's travel.
Rob Lee:Let's really dive in a little bit, and it's accessible. It became, you know, something that I got a lot of joy out of, and it kinda gave me sort of those journalistic chops, things that I wasn't looking for. I wasn't thinking. Like, I coulda easily just did 26, 30 interviews via Zoom, and it's been just as good, but getting that rawness in the city.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It because it it's it's it's it's different. You know?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Being from the West Coast and then going to the East Coast for the first time and walking in Harlem, walking in Brooklyn Yeah. You know, walking in, you know, all the stuff I see the movies on. I'm like, oh, you know, it's it's totally different. And and it's crazy because, like, in San Francisco, I walk in and I see you. I'm gonna give you the, you know, the knot.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Right? The knot. Out here, you don't have to give the knot. You know? So one brother thought I was like, do I know you?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I was like, oh, man. I'm just like, say, what's up? I was just saying, what's up, man? It was like, you know, it was it was, it was pretty funny, but it's just like it's a different culture out here where I just I'm I feel like I missed, you know, I didn't travel on these. I feel like I missed that part.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And, and it's and it's so different, you know, that, the food is different. You know, the slang is different. And, but yet, experiencing it for the first time is just it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. You know?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Looking at murals of Malcolm X, you know, and, Muhammad Ali and, James Baldwin, you know, just on the street that's kinda littered with you know, but you see the history. You know, it's littered with, you know, stuff, but you'd like to see the you look at that. It's like, wow. Malcolm X was there. Well, Mahapali was there.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And then this brother is playing chess right on the corner. What does that mean? And and
Rob Lee:and it's a anthropological lens to it too. Yeah. You're you're right there and you're getting the pure uncut. Like, you're getting the real. You know?
Rob Lee:Yeah. You know, you I when I go to a place, I come there as I am. Like, look, I'm Mhmm. Scott from East Baltimore. You know?
Rob Lee:Yeah. And seeing people just be themselves, be free, you know, laugh at the things. We're laughing at each other's accents, and Mhmm. It's like, yo, there's some some joy in that that communal thing, and I'm still able to get my my thing. And I would imagine for you still getting your your research and your your background to come up with these these great pieces.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's it's interesting, man. I'm just like, you know, from the Afro Latino culture too. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And and and and, looking at that and looking at how closely we're we're related. And I'm looking at, you know, you know, South American chess pieces. Yeah. You know, Portuguese chess pieces, you know, Egyptian chess. And this open is on this whole door to where now I'm like, okay.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm gonna create these pieces. Now I wanna create a chess set, a black chess set. Yeah. And and and really, you know, deep dive and, you know, bring this Afrofuturism, bring this, you know, Afro Latino, bring this, you know, West Indian, you know, you know, aspect to it and just really have fun and and and and stuff. Because the game of chess is is is interesting.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):My dad taught me. My mom would not let me win. So I I got a little older than I actually beat her once. My uncle, you know, he learned in prison, of all places. Uh-huh.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):He learned in prison, and my mom couldn't beat him. But now I beat him on a regular basis. But for some reason, I can't beat my mom. I don't know why. Let's not talk about that.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But, you know, it's, you know, it's it's a game of the mind, and anything that happens, a game of life. And, you know, there's ups and downs. You lose people. Right? And, and so that's I don't know.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):That's why I wanted to try to, you know, create this series to just celebrate the black mind because we've been playing chess since beginning in time. Yeah. But, yep, we only have 2 black grandmasters. Why is that? So I wanna deep and dive into that, and I hope I get a chance to meet Maurice Ashley.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm gonna shake his hand because, looking at his and, you know, this is how I'm doing research, like, looking at his interviews, reading, you know, the articles. I'm like, wow. This is interesting. I have something here. I wanna just run with it.
Rob Lee:So yeah. And one more comment before I move into this this next question. You know, you were talking about sort of the the the chess pieces being unifying between the different parts of the diaspora, the different cultural components there. Yeah. I you know, in this last year, I've had the privilege of teaching podcasts podcasting as a skill, to, you know, in high school students and in college students.
Rob Lee:And the college students, it was literally beginning of the month was my my last class I taught during the summer, and, ultimately, the final project was, you're working with your your, classmates. You know, you're picking teams, what have you, and there were, 4 women in the class that started working together, and they all, are from different parts of the diaspora, you know, Afro Caribbean and and so on. And they all have hibiscus and sorrel as part of
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, yes.
Rob Lee:So they were had did a podcast pilot on that, you know, as a youth and family. Awesome. Yeah. I was just like, that came out of this, you know, 4 week intensive, like, pod, and you guys came to this this idea. And she had legs.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. That is genius. You made me wanna get sorrow. Now my wife is Guyanese.
Rob Lee:So and
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm like, hey. She's gonna say no. Buster can't make sorrow. You need
Rob Lee:a Nissan.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It's just a Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Man, that's, yeah. That's beautiful.
Rob Lee:Oh, yeah. So read that deciding what to cut out, you know, in in edit out to suppress within our work, we have these sort of Mhmm. Everything is at our disposal. The world is always Yeah. Right?
Rob Lee:It's like, I got all of the colors. I got all the techniques. I can have I got, like, 15 mics. I can have all of these mics plugged in right now. It's not gonna be the project if I did it that way.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Mhmm.
Rob Lee:Mhmm. So, you know, that's part of the editing, figuring out the right tool, figuring out maybe the right questions, the right timing, giving self parameters. For you, how do you incorporate maybe limitations? Maybe I'm only gonna work in this color. I'm only gonna give myself this allotted amount of time or this number of pieces.
Rob Lee:Speak a bit of limitations, editing, omission as it relates to your work and your overall artistic, pursuit?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So as far as editing colors, I I tend not to. It's just it's about a feeling. Like, for your particular skin tone, if I'm gonna paint you, I would use a, ultramarine blue, and then, I will look at cool and warm colors for your face. So looking at you now, I see alizarin crimson, and then I see, ultramarine blue. I see the black.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I would do purple. And then, I would do, like, a yellow ochre, pale yellow ochre. And I use those mixtures, and that will give me another set of 4 to 5 colors. Mix those. That'll give me another set of 4 to 5 colors.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So I try not to limit that. Yeah. But I limit the narrative.
Rob Lee:Okay. And
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):what I mean by that is I will not, paint black paint. Now I'll I'll paint a narrative that will get you to think. Sure. But I'm not gonna show a black man breaking chains. I'm not gonna show a black man or a black woman overcoming obstacles.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm going to show them as a king or queen, a superhero, someone to be revered and respected. So, as far as, like, any type of limitations, I will not talk about the pain part. I admit that. I said, anything else is game. Jazz, art, creativity, music, whatever, I'll paint that.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But I am tired of seeing paintings about, you know, black paint. Yeah. And, I just I wanna show us, like, those artists in the Harlem Renaissance, you know, show themselves as like, hey. We're workers. We're musicians.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):We're poets. You know, we're artists. And, so that's the kind of limitations that I will put on myself. No black pain.
Rob Lee:Love it. It's you know, that's when you see these things and, you know, it's just like, you know, you think about the mediums, film. It's like, oh Yeah. Slave movies up for an Academy Award. You know?
Rob Lee:I was just
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):like Yeah.
Rob Lee:You you got it. You know? I was like, again, it's it's sort of that continuum I I was touching on was the, you know, you have the excellent side, but then you have, like, sort of the the pain side. It's just like, could it just be and there's a lot of stuff in the middle. You know?
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):There's a
Rob Lee:lot of people just doing good stuff.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. And you think about Halle Berry, for example. Right? Yeah. Beautiful actress, you know, icon.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But what does she run an Academy Award for? Mhmm. Right? And then you're looking at, like, all this other stuff. Denzel Washington.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Mhmm. You know, I can name Malcolm X. He could have got it for, hell, give it to him for glory. Glory was awesome. You know, and then it's like Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):That's here, you know, and and you fill that tier, but all this stuff, but then he gets, can reward for, you know, being a gangster, a gangster, a cop, you know, and it's just like, you know, we're we're much more. Yep. And that's that's what I I wanted to pick in my artwork where where these joyous people were this we're this we're creative intellect. We have culture. Lots of culture, from, you know, the Africa to to Brazil to, you know, whatever.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):We're we're all over. And, I think that we just I just wanna show how awesome we are.
Rob Lee:Doug, dig it.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So I got one
Rob Lee:more real question, and then I got those rapid fire ones I wanna hit you with. Yeah. I think I think a lot of times, you know, we we have these conversations around art and just art, creative process and all of that stuff, but we're not diving into the business side of it. Mhmm. It's definitely a business side.
Rob Lee:So let's talk about the business part of art, your art specifically. You know, what is the the key motivator around sort of the business aspects of it, and how do you measure success as, you know, entrepreneur and as an artist? Are those two things intertwined? Are they sort of, like, separate? Do you put on one hat at one time and maybe the beret, you
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):know, the art beret at another time?
Rob Lee:I'm in I'm in the studio. Yes. This is literally
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):my favorite James. Yeah. Well, that's a that's a really good question. You have to play maybe have 3 hats at sometimes depending on who you're talking to. So the studio aspect.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. You have to grind. There's this guy named Mike Henderson at at at the blues senior in, in the Bay. Really nice guy. He told me you have to water the mule.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And I was like, what are you talking about? And he goes, you have to go you have to put in work. You have to put in work. And so regardless if you're going to sell or not, you need to keep up your practice, you're an athlete. Just like you know.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I'm not gonna use any eagles reference over Baltimore. I gotta go to my 40 niners. They're like Jerry Rice, You know. Go on. I'm listening.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I know. You guys killed us this this year. Man, did you guys run this? But, but no, like Jerry Rice goes out there and he he puts in work. You know?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. You know, Brock put in work. You know, Deebo Samuel was putting work. You have to keep those muscles up because once you stop Yep. And you're not working as much, people are going to notice that they're you're not where where's Chris doing?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And he's usually creating work. Then there's the business side where you're marketing yourself, and, sometimes you have to code switch with, different white galleries. Right? Mhmm. And then, and you have to put on that hat, and then then you have to explain why your name is the Black Da Vinci.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. And and why is it not just Christopher Williams? What is Black Joy? Why does that not just regular joy? And so you have to prepare yourself to have to put on that hat and say, my name is The Black Da Vinci because I want people to know that I'm a black artist.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And, yes, I am striving to be like that legendary Italian, you know, master Leonardo da Vinci. And that's what I consider myself. I wanna be great, you know, and I wanna do my best not to be better than anybody else, but be great in my studio, be the best person I can. And that's why I have that nickname. And as far as, like, what is a measure of success?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. When I have a young black girl or a young black, you know, boy coming up, and it's like, oh, I can draw too. I love this. Or someone says, that reminds me of my sister, or that looks like my mom, and look at the hair. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Let me let me tell you this story real quick. I was in the school in, briefly before I went back to California in in Portland, Maine. There's an art school out there that I remain nameless. And there was this teacher that, never said my artwork was beautiful. So I've never seen her artwork as beautiful.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And this is talking about black skin. And I'm investigating black skin, and I'm using purples and and dioxazine, purple mix with black to create this luminescent, portraiture of women. And, artists of humanity, the small group, came in. And this black girl, right in front of my teacher, looked at the painting and says, look at her hair. It's dyed like mine.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And she is so pretty, and she started to cry. And then she goes, I out here, it made you don't see portraits like this. Right. And then that's when I knew. It's like, this is who I'm painting for.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And I'm not painting for this white professor that's telling me that I need to paint with a stick and and, you know, my paintings aren't beautiful. I'm painting for this young black woman so she can sit, you know, go home or and and draw her characters or or her portraits, and they can tell her family, like, I saw a black artist painting black people, and they look beautiful. And that's that's what I I do work for. Now, once you're putting in the work and, you know, you know how to promote yourself and sell yourself, you know, then you'll you'll get you'll get commissions. You'll get that.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And and, you know, I learned that my work is not for everybody. A lot of people want that hard hitting, you know, you know, work and but my work is joyous, and and, I have clients that promote that and and, stand behind that. And, that's why I know I'm on the right direction, you know, if if I didn't say anything. So so yeah. The long rant there, but my apologies.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):But and I'm I'm really passionate about that. Like, I'm like yeah. It's just it's it's it's interesting because being a black artist and selling yourself, it is tough at times, but it is rewarding.
Rob Lee:No. I I thank you for all of that. And the reason reason I laughed a little bit there, you turned to the side.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It was like your your portrait and
Rob Lee:you were doing the same pose.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It's like your portrait was over your shoulder. It's the whole point, bro. It's like Oh, good day. You know what? That's that's the younger me because, you know, he has hair.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):This one. No. Hair's gone. I have a head on
Rob Lee:to hide my thinning follicles, so let's let's act in accordance here. Yeah. So, yeah, thank you. This this has been been great. And now with all of the all of the effort, all the connection we've been making, talking all of this stuff and this work now, it's time to go into the rapid fire portion where everything gets a little goes a little left.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):All right. Here we go. I'm a try. So here we go.
Rob Lee:All right. So as I tell everyone all the time, you don't wanna overthink these. It's sort of like, you know, whatever your answer is, your answer. When I when I write these, I'm like, can I get a one word response, or can I get a very brief response? That's what I'm aiming for.
Rob Lee:Good. Alright. So, on average, how many hours of sleep do you get?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):5.5.
Rob Lee:That's what I've been working off of though so far this week. I took a nap before. That's why I was late. I took a nap before.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Like, I'm gonna need a good
Rob Lee:I mean, a disco nap. Like, I'm a need one.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Because I what I'll do is I'll, get up, do some work, whatever, and then I'll take that 2, 3 hour nap, and then get up again to work and then go to bed. So, yeah, about 5 about 5.
Rob Lee:What did you have for breakfast today?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, what did I have for breakfast? Oh, I had, oatmeal and some bacon.
Rob Lee:Okay. Now these these 2 are interesting. I'm a save the more professional one, but I like this one because I think it it aligns to black joy very well. Yeah. What is something?
Rob Lee:And I'll say mine's before I even give you the question. Mine's Okay. Friday fish fries. Mhmm. Something from, like, that regular degular black joyous experience that you miss and you wanna, like, bring back.
Rob Lee:You wanna get it out there in the ether. Like I said, mine's is those Friday fish fries. We didn't have a lot of money back in the day growing up in the projects, but, you know, definitely, my parents are going down there to Lexington market, getting the lake trout, frying that up. I didn't eat fish then. So Yeah.
Rob Lee:I never enjoyed it, but I enjoyed the smell. You know?
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. I know. That's that's I love that. For me, it would be if I could bring everyone together. When my dad was alive, if I bring everyone together for those monthly barbecues.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And when I say I could throw down, it's it's no joke. I got I won 2, competitions in, Texas, for Apple Computers when I worked at Apple. And we had a team that I won too, with my brisket and my, my my ribs. So, if I could bring that back, it was nothing like the whole neighborhood just coming over the house with a plate or bringing something. And, yeah, those those monthly barbecues.
Rob Lee:I mean, as we're recording this, you know, I got some barbecue plans on Friday. I got the smoker and I got the nice charcoal grill.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Okay. Hey. I'll invite you over to the house. So the Black Student Union, if you're and I'm I'm gonna invite you. So the Black Student Union at Moore, these these group of ladies, I did a barbecue for him, last year.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Other than welcome to come to the house. Yeah and you can taste the barbecue because II have a pit and it's it's legit man. We're going to. We're going to have a lot of students there.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah and if you want to come, you're more than welcome.
Rob Lee:Hit hit me up. I will trade. I don't know if you're a, if you're a shellfish guy, I will trade you. I have these famous smoked crab cakes.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, damn.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I I I like to mix flavors. They have a Japanese thing going. We'll we'll trade food notes after.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Yeah. You know what? We can we can do that. It's on.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. No. I I I'm not giving you my address and, you know, it's on. So this is the
Rob Lee:this is the last one I got for you. Yeah. And this this aligns back to the business thing and the the art thing and just everything as far as the the conversation we've had thus far. So, secondly, what is a unique piece of business advice that intersects with your art that you think you would like other artists to hear? Oh.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):This one's not gonna be a one part. No. It's fine. It's it's it's it's the closeout. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):1, know your worth. Don't shortchange, the value of your artwork. And, for example, I have pieces that are worth 20 grand, and I will not blink, because I know that if someone's going to see the value, you know, in my work and, in my brushstrokes and all that stuff. The other one is, write down that contract. Get that money upfront.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Get half upfront and and really, you know, be sound about your business. Represent yourself, in a professional matter by getting that contract. My name is Christopher Williams. You wanna commit, you know, and want me to commission this piece. And, here is, the contract, 50% upfront.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):The other thing is always be on time. Always be on time because, if you're on time, you know, people are gonna see that, and it's gonna open the doors. And because of this, I know it's a little bit long here, but
Rob Lee:That's fine.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I tell my students this all the time. I'm like, guys, I was discovered on Instagram by a production company. It was a gmail.com address. And I was like, what is this is weird. So I was like, yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I could do a commission piece. And, like, can you do it in 10 days? Yes. I can do it in 10 days. Let's do a Zoom.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):So I zoomed in with the L Word producers, Jennifer Bills, and and and everybody that they're there. And they're like, our, artists that we were gonna have for the show didn't get the job done. We can't get ahold of them. And so we wanna go with you, but we need a oil painting done in 10 days. I hustled.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I did that in 10 days. There were sometimes 50 changes to subtle colors on that that I that I did. I didn't complain. Yeah. They gave me 5 grand for that piece.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It was on the air probably for 30 seconds. They opened the pieces on the air. So I'm like, alright. And then the, producer's like, stay tuned. We we may call you back for season 2.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):I was like, alright. Cool. They call me back for season 2. Just because I was on time, they're like, Chris, we don't want you to create, any work. We wanna rent all your pieces.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):We saw these pieces on your site. Can you get this from your some of your clients? I'm like, yes. Now they paid me $30 just to rent my work. Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Being on time being on time, you know, people look at that. And they're like, this person is it it wants this, as a career. This person, is behind their artwork. They stand behind their brand.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And I know that if I call this person, they're gonna get the job done. And so that's my advice. Long winded there. But, you know, be on time, get a contract, know your worth.
Rob Lee:And thank you. That's and it's I I you know, to to to have that that sentiment I've been trying to get in get across, and it's not done to diminish or anything along those lines. But it's like that is in my head, you know, I'll I'll be 40 in January. It's like Yeah. It's a regular thing to me, but you put in that work, that Brock Purdy esque work.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or that Jerry saying that Jerry that Jerry Rice esque work, but you put that that that work. And when that call comes and this is the advice you hear from so many different folks when that call comes.
Rob Lee:You got your stuff in order. You got, you know, everything in place and, you know, things can happen, but if you at least have that strong foundation, I had a similar thing where I almost fell into that trap of, oh, this isn't worth it. What I do isn't worth it, and I was like, no. This is what my price is. And I was like, actually, I'm gonna charge you more because I don't like working weekends.
Rob Lee:Here's a premium. Nice. Sort of that's what it was and everything lined up, and you get to a point where, at least in my head, that that's now the new benchmark. You know? And I have these other criterias, like, I get so many PR people that reach out to me.
Rob Lee:Hey. My client would like to come on you. It's like, yeah. I kinda pick the people I like. I don't have problems booking anyone.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah. Listen to the podcast.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):700 and and, you know It it is that. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And and and part of that, I I, you know, I take a lot of responsibility as I was saying before we got started. My thing is I don't wanna have folk come on here and they don't present themselves in their their best way, but they're able to do something that's tip that's different than the typical so tell me about your work. Oh, wow. Black people. How did you get those tips like that?
Rob Lee:Nobody wants that. You want something that feels like a substantive conversation that shows the person behind it.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):That's true.
Rob Lee:So that's that's the intent, and I think that there's a value attached to that and a respecting of the game and of the craft.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's that sums it all up. And, yeah, that is that is that is true.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):You know? And I don't know, man. This is like that's why I I, going back, you know, a couple of months ago when, you know, one of my professors told me to reach out to you. And I was like, this dude this dude is he's he's hustling and he's working. And then listen to the podcast.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):It's really meaningful conversations. I'm glad that, you know, you invited me to be a part of this because it means a lot. I appreciate you coming on. Yeah. Yes, sir.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Yes, sir. It means a lot.
Rob Lee:So let let me close out and give you, one, those flowers. Again, thank you so much for being on and all the work that you do and and spending some time. It's been an hour with me. And, Yeah.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Thank you. And, 2,
Rob Lee:I wanna invite and encourage you to tell the folks where to check you out, social media, website, and anything coming up soon, any shows, things of that nature that, you know, you went out there to the masses. The floor is yours.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):Oh, thank you. Christopher Williams. You can reach me on, Instagram at the black da Vinci, the black da Vinci. And, my artwork is at the black da Vinci dot com. I have a upcoming show in Portland, Oregon, October 8th at, Bora, Architecture Firm.
Christopher Williams (The Black DaVinci):And I am working on a a project that I can't say, but it's in Alameda, near and dear to my heart at a wellness center. And I'm gonna be doing, really awesome, paintings in that structure. So, that's me in a nutshell. And, yeah, this is this was awesome.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Christopher Williams, the black da Vinci, for coming on to the podcast and spending some time with me and sharing his story. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just gotta look for it.
