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Unknown
Only a couple months no longer. No new. I think I recognize.
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Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth and as art, your source of conversations connecting arts, culture and community. These are stories that matter. And I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I'm excited to welcome my next guest on to the podcast. He's a visual artist and filmmaker based in New York City. He was initially trained as an art historian, but later devoted himself to a fine art practice.
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Rob Lee
His work includes paintings, animations, video art, experimental films, digital arts, and installations focusing on topics such as sci fi, alternative history, mythology and the boundary between dreams and reality, and more importantly, how individual humans relate to all of these evolving narratives around this. So please welcome to the program, Tiger Cai. Welcome to the podcast.
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Tiger Cai
Yeah. My pleasure.
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Rob Lee
So before we get started into like the main topics for today's conversation, you know, I got a call in conversation. Sometimes it just feels like it's a chat. It's less formal. And it's not like I'm expecting you to give me the full everything, but, could you introduce yourself? And for the folks who are unaware of who you are.
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Rob Lee
Could you describe your work?
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Tiger Cai
Sure. My name, the tigers. Hi. And, I'm a visual artist based in New York City. And I, I grew up in China, and I moved to New York City, a little bit over ten years ago to attend art school here. And then, so at of my art, I do paintings, video art, animations, sometimes experimental film, digital art.
00;01;50;24 - 00;02;20;10
Tiger Cai
So, a little bit of everything. So, if you ask what I do, like, in my art's basically, the simple question, the simple answer, short answer is I paint a dance a, like, produce, like, you know, alien creatures that are kind of like half human, half humanoid, creatures to living in a, on a planet called a wonderland.
00;02;20;12 - 00;02;42;18
Tiger Cai
And, so I, basically, right now, at this moment, most of my work is, is it's based on this concept of like the it's called Wonderland of Funny Fellows. And, arcade don't verse because, like, all these, aliens, they worship dance. So I do, I do many things based on the same topic and concept.
00;02;42;20 - 00;03;05;26
Tiger Cai
I do paintings, I do animations, I do, little sculptures, all related to this, kind of like universe I created. But also it's, a universe I based I, I mode, based on, the world we live in right now. Yeah. That's what do we do?
00;03;05;28 - 00;03;26;19
Rob Lee
I like it, and I like that you tease that a little bit, because I got some more specific questions in there. Peter, for you. I was about to say, don't give it all away, man. Come on now. Hold on. So going back and thank you for the introduction. So, so going back a bit, what initially brought you into art?
00;03;26;19 - 00;03;43;12
Rob Lee
That's one of those sort of like fundamental questions that, that I like to ask. You know, folks ask me like, how'd you get to podcasting? I was like, I was 24 and I didn't know what I was doing, you know what I mean? And I could afford equipment and I spent money on it. It was just trial and error.
00;03;43;12 - 00;03;54;12
Rob Lee
But I was always curious about conversation, I suppose. Yeah. And podcasting became an outlet to do that. So what initially brought you into art?
00;03;54;15 - 00;04;19;28
Tiger Cai
Yeah, it's always about love, right? I think it's probably it's your case too. The the reason behind, me being an artist is simply because of love. And I loved, just drawing and painting since a very young age. I've spent most of my time, my spare time, when I was kids, like, just drawing and doodling on paper.
00;04;20;00 - 00;04;51;01
Tiger Cai
Yeah. So my childhood dream was someday I should become a, mangaka. Which means go into producing these, manga artists. So basically, that's my dream. But somehow, unfortunately, when I was a kid, like, because I grew up in China, at that time, China was a very different place. And then my teacher and my parents, they they don't like the idea.
00;04;51;03 - 00;05;19;22
Tiger Cai
They say, okay, you you should become something like, maybe, you know, doctor, you know, those kind of a stereotype, you know, high pay jobs. Yeah. So. So, no, no, my, people around me support my dream of become artist. So I never took any, like, art class growing up, so I just like, I taught myself drawing and do all these stuffs.
00;05;19;24 - 00;05;46;14
Tiger Cai
So. So I came a long way to eventually become an artist and and doing, doing art as my job. So I started, so I, I didn't go to any, like, fine art program, but I choose, when I apply for college, I choose art history. Right. My major draw as a 72, tuition portfolio major.
00;05;46;16 - 00;06;18;28
Tiger Cai
Because in China we have this very, very, crazy, fine art entry test, national fine art entry test. Just, and, under the story, I can we can, talk about later, but like, if you want to, go to that test, you want to pass that test, you need to, like, do this. You spend years on years, to refine your, basic skill, like sketch, like, color theory, all this kind of stuff.
00;06;19;01 - 00;06;49;28
Tiger Cai
I didn't I didn't because I didn't, have, I didn't have any, art class during, in my childhood. My youthful. So I just choose, like, art history because it's a history major, and it's like, you don't need to pass those fine art entry test. But anyway, I was in art school, performance art history major, and then I graduate with art history major, and I find my first job, in an art gallery.
00;06;50;01 - 00;07;12;17
Tiger Cai
That's the point, I decide. Okay, maybe I should really become artists. The reason why is because I work in that gallery. It's, kind of like Bluechip Gallery in China. And then I saw this artwork and the artists I talk with. And then I saw these, artworks. Then I realized, oh, this artist not just like normal people like us.
00;07;12;20 - 00;07;33;00
Tiger Cai
Yeah. And, some of the artwork is not that good at all, you know? And I feel like, okay, if this, like, people with, like, average Joe like me, they can do that. And if their artwork at least like, some, some of them are not very like, skill driven, it's just more. It's more about concept. All right.
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Tiger Cai
Yeah. Why shouldn't I turn? That's the time. That's the moment I decide maybe I should do art. I shouldn't be shy. Like a whole hall like myself. Back, away from making art anymore. So. So I started to make art. I started to make art. And I applied in our school, New York City. Then the rest of the history.
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Rob Lee
That makes that makes sense. And thank you. Like, sort of that, that path. And definitely I want to dive into sort of, pursuing, you know, art in China and art education in China compared to to here. But before I get to that, I want to ask about, sort of having that that foundation and that background in terms of training in, in art history, does that, like, serve you in any way in your work right now, working in all of the different areas that you're working in?
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Rob Lee
How does that support you?
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Tiger Cai
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I feel it's very helpful. I feel like art history knowledge should be the basic for any artist to do, if they want to do something like meaningful and, and, and a series, the first of all, like, beside all the, historical lessons and all those, like, knowledge, first of all, the most important thing that art history told me that, taught me through the years.
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Tiger Cai
I, my undergraduate years is like, because we studied, artists like, you know, the Coursera and, also like the trains through the history that I realize in arts history of speaking art trains come and go, you know, so it doesn't matter. So the only thing matter is like, what do you care about? And, and, and what do you want to make through your own art expression?
00;09;33;29 - 00;10;09;05
Tiger Cai
Yeah. So don't worry about like, oh, what is popular right now. Like what is like, what is what kind of genre or what kind of art or what kind of style get you more opportunities to it in a manner so, so that's that's the one thing I learned from art history to another thing is like, of course, like the history of knowledge is like, help you a lot when you, you consider, like, what you want to do and, and, and the like, see through what is like, midst of our world.
00;10;09;07 - 00;10;38;12
Tiger Cai
Right. But another like, particular aspect from my, art history background is like, when I was, in my undergraduate art history major, my field of research is, what's related to, technology. And so I collages, is a study about, like, the meaning behind symbol and icons and all this kind of stuff, like the hidden meaning behind things.
00;10;38;15 - 00;11;11;11
Tiger Cai
Right? So I, I loved it. I, I wrote a lot of sales, on the topic. So after I became an artist, I, I had to, you know, embrace that part of myself, like, okay, hidden meaning. That's great. Yeah. So, so so if you look at my art today, like I in, embedded a lot of riddles and, symbols and also like, hidden meanings and, context behind my artwork.
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Tiger Cai
So that's another aspect, like, studying in art history. My past, like, help my artist career.
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Rob Lee
I can I can see it now where it's a full circle to it, where you're teaching a class, right? You're like, so yeah, my my art. Look at all of the symbolism and all of the hidden.
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Tiger Cai
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But, but, this is one thing I love to like in that audience. Like, read also in my art. Yeah. But, on the other hand, I don't care if if, like, my audience of people like, they, they are able to decoded it because, like, it doesn't matter that, like, because you can have your own version of understanding of my art, but I just, I have to do it like I lived here for the rest.
00;11;57;04 - 00;12;00;16
Tiger Cai
It's like it's it's not my business. You know?
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Rob Lee
It. It allows, I think, for it to live on. Pass the novelty in the sense of it's new versus it's disposable. Right. And, you know, I do the podcast thing and I like that you touched on trends because, especially in sort of this area, this is the thing that is looked at it as a model. Yeah. I've been a podcaster nearly 20 years.
00;12;24;16 - 00;12;53;07
Rob Lee
I see everyone who's an expert now because it's something that makes money, it's getting opportunities and so on. And then it's just trends. It's just I see people who there's maybe money behind it that is influencing how we perceive this. And I see that bleeding into art. You know, we I became aware of your work and this is skipping ahead and will definitely go back because I want to hear about the differences between arts education here and in China.
00;12;53;09 - 00;13;11;00
Rob Lee
But I became aware of your work did spring break when I was up in New York in May, and I was just like, this person, whoever this is, because there was not a phase I was just seeing, like, all of them world building that you were doing there. I was like, this is interesting work. Who's the person?
00;13;11;00 - 00;13;27;23
Rob Lee
And then I immediately either DM'd you or something because I was curious and your work caught my eye. It was refreshing to see because when I went up, I have friends that they always go to visit them and they're in your space, and they were kind of touching on. It's a lot of paintings, not a lot of stuff.
00;13;27;23 - 00;13;46;28
Rob Lee
That's that. That was the only art fair I went to was spring break. Yeah, I avoided the other ones because I was just like, I don't want to just feel like I've wasted my time or feel like I don't fit in. And being there, spring breaking, seeing all the different like types of work that were there, and then being able to have conversations with some of the artists.
00;13;47;00 - 00;14;13;25
Rob Lee
I was like, these are my people. These are people that I can connect with and build with. And it was refreshing to see so much really, really cool work there. And I saw it in a very short period of time. I was there maybe 40 minutes. I booked six interviews while I was there, which while so when I say that in this term of building, you know, you, you're, you're you're based in New York City, you still have sort of the Shanghai connection back, back home.
00;14;13;28 - 00;14;23;18
Rob Lee
So talk a bit about what it is in building this sort of art career and art life in New York. Like, what's that experience been like?
00;14;23;21 - 00;14;59;21
Tiger Cai
Yeah, sure. You mentioned spring break and, it's a perfect example of, like how, New York artwork, works because like in New York City, you have this, like, very elite driven, events galleries and, as you mentioned, like you only went for spring break because spring break, connect, you can you can connect with the event and the other like art fairs, like there are all these, like, blue chips gallery, you know, and, all these, like, high end, like, elite is that they are good, right?
00;14;59;21 - 00;15;40;22
Tiger Cai
But go with people like us. We feel like, okay, that's not our world. It's like a so far away, like it's it's it's out there and, and everything in the world, everything about like a sales commercial, successful, you know, commercial success and all this, like, the status. But in any event, like spring break, it's it's about, like, experimental and to have fun, like, we don't really care about, like, how successful it we are, but we care about, like, you know, we want we want the event.
00;15;40;22 - 00;16;03;02
Tiger Cai
We want the exhibition like that to be fun. Yeah. And the audience can can just wander around. Oh. What's that? I never seen something like that. Right. And then that's the point. So it's a it's a perfect, it's a perfect metaphor or example for, like, the New York City. Like New York City, you you can find whatever you want.
00;16;03;04 - 00;16;28;13
Tiger Cai
You can find like, elite artists. You can find like a grassroots artist. You can, you can, you can sign, very, various queerest artists in every corner. Yeah. So that's that's, what I love about New York City. So in, in my, in my case, like, because I'm, I'm a, I'm a, Chinese artist.
00;16;28;16 - 00;16;57;07
Tiger Cai
Came to New York City to, to to start my career as an artist, singing in this new country and a new city. I never been before, before. And then, so the moment I, I step on this land and the moment I graduate from school, I was basically, I was lost. I was, like, overwhelmed and lost, like, what should I do?
00;16;57;10 - 00;17;34;24
Tiger Cai
And where is my community? Yeah. And immediately I found my community because it's New York City. It's it's only possible here. I sound like, Chinese American artists, Asian American artists, community in this city. They have I start to learn like I do have, such a long history embedded in the history of New York City. And I had many, many help from my community, like some some of this, like, old generation, Asian American, curator data can be the very first chance to to exhibit in New York City.
00;17;34;24 - 00;18;03;00
Tiger Cai
And then I will I will never forget that. And, this is great experience. And, so all my, because my background, my background as a Chinese artist in America, yeah, because of New York City, is slowly transformed into, the Asian American, art experience. Like, became a part of this larger Asian American art community in New York City.
00;18;03;03 - 00;18;36;06
Tiger Cai
And then, through this way, like, I also because back in China, maybe it just, far reach, but, maybe I feel I can maybe we can talk a little bit about this kind of experience because back in China, like, I'm a Huynh, Chinese. I'm Chinese. It's like, super majority of the, ethnic group in in China, like, they represent like 90% or something.
00;18;36;06 - 00;19;16;17
Tiger Cai
So, so I, I was one of the majority groups and a privilege majority group. So I never think about like a race minority or whatever, this kind of stuff. Right. But, now, I mean, the United States, I become like one of the minority group. Right? So that experience, like, so, so I went through this experience and from being a majority into a minority and a New York City help me to New York City and the New York City, Chinese American, Asian American art community helped me, like, went through this, transformation.
00;19;16;19 - 00;19;52;22
Tiger Cai
And then during this transformation, also, I start to, learn to see things from a different aspect of just from a perspective helps me understand the world much, much more. I know lots like, so I, I was hiring recommended like to change your perspective to see things and, many, many trouble. We have had this moment of in this world and it because people just don't, didn't, haven't learned to change to perspective of seeing things.
00;19;52;25 - 00;20;07;08
Tiger Cai
So if, if like people can just have more empathy and, have more like, experience outside of your own safety zone or like, comfort zone. Yeah. A lot of things will change. No.
00;20;07;08 - 00;20;46;07
Rob Lee
So that's a really good point, a very timely point to and thank you for sharing that. Going from, you know, being in the sort of like comfort zone and knowing sort of this is the setup, this is the reality for you. And then coming here and it's like, this is completely different. Yeah. Still finding community, finding a space where you fit and and what serves you and what in some ways what feeds you creatively, and even even socially like you know, always toyed with the idea, not like leaving the country per se, but it is a thought of sometimes you have ideas and that are bigger than the opportunities that are in front
00;20;46;07 - 00;21;06;09
Rob Lee
of you. And I always think, like, as much as I like being by myself, like, you know, like, hey, I could do this right here and do it in this way. You still need people. You still need people around you. You need someone to go, like, kick it with. So for me, and the last time I was in New York was, was during spring break.
00;21;06;11 - 00;21;29;25
Rob Lee
I was able to kick it with some of my friends, some of the people that like friends in that I've interviewed them, but I haven't seen them in person in real life. So meeting them in real life and then just getting with their experiences through their lens and I'm like, this is great. This is culturally rich. And it felt like in a way, I found my people up there despite kind of knowing them enough, just the just a little bit here.
00;21;29;28 - 00;21;49;02
Rob Lee
And one of the dudes do named Joey. I interviewed him, a couple years back for this podcast, and we met for the first time. This is like maybe two years later. This is at the spring break when I was up and we had another interview schedule because I've been doing like follow up interviews of folks of time removed.
00;21;49;02 - 00;22;04;21
Rob Lee
Where are you at in your career now? And it was a much different conversation. It wasn't like sort of, hey, let's just talk purely about your work. It was like two friends talking that have connected and having that cultural exchange and work happened to be a piece of it.
00;22;04;24 - 00;22;05;16
Tiger Cai
Yeah.
00;22;05;18 - 00;22;25;14
Rob Lee
So something is something about that. And so there's two directions I want to go in this sort of next, next part. I think I want to because I want to bury the lead too much further. Let's talk a little bit about pursuing arts and an arts education in China compared to here in the US. Like what is that like?
00;22;25;16 - 00;22;33;02
Rob Lee
Because I do remember like this, this is an article I read, the artists I wish we.
00;22;33;04 - 00;22;34;10
Tiger Cai
Yeah I won't yeah.
00;22;34;12 - 00;22;53;25
Rob Lee
I Weiwei on how difficult it is being an artist in China and some of the stuff related to his career and his work there. So I would love sort of your take on sort of that dynamic versus in, in China and in here in the US, in sort of what does it mean to be an artist in China?
00;22;53;27 - 00;22;55;29
Rob Lee
So those sort of three points, if you will.
00;22;56;01 - 00;23;22;26
Tiger Cai
So, it's a very complicated topic. You know, being an artist in China, it's in some way, in some kind of, if you, if you're talking about like, you know, being, successful artists who can, like, sell our work and, and make a lot of money, it's no different from any, any corner else in the world.
00;23;22;29 - 00;23;50;03
Tiger Cai
So China had a very great art market a couple of years ago, actually, like, for the past two decades before the pandemic, of the pandemic and change, but before pandemic, China had a very good, good, market over there. And then, like, solvents, literally solvents of like, art museums and galleries emerged all over the country.
00;23;50;05 - 00;24;10;01
Tiger Cai
So, so in that sense, it was a great experience to be an artist in China. Right. Because you have more, more opportunity and, it's easier to make money and easier to make your career. And, and if that's what you are seeking, like being famous, successful, out of making money, that's the best place you can be.
00;24;10;03 - 00;24;28;23
Tiger Cai
I heard, like, I heard some African American artists and or European artist. They they they are, they were talking about like, oh, the only thing I, I, I want in this world is like a Chinese passport and, and then like, I can, I can make money like be an artist in China. So, so in that sense. Yeah.
00;24;28;23 - 00;25;17;26
Tiger Cai
It's true. Like, but on the other hand, because the, the political scene in China, China is still a country that is very, restricts, in, political speaking. And then so being artists means like, you want to explore any topics you want and you want to, explore the idea that, you want free expression, but that will be a problem in China because, like, the censorship, the Chinese government doesn't want you to, to explore topics like politics, like LGBT, like, like feminism or anything.
00;25;17;26 - 00;25;41;22
Tiger Cai
Like they feel, they feel it's a threat to the, to to like, control to, of the country, but they don't want you to do that. So you mentioned AI Weiwei. I always case like he's a very he's a totally like, political animal. Right? So, so, like, he got arrested at some point because of his artwork.
00;25;41;28 - 00;26;09;14
Tiger Cai
Yeah. So, that's so, I, I was never arrested in China because of my art, but I had a similar experience because, of my artwork, I touched some of the topics, like the government and, like. And then they send kind of like, secret cultural place to me to talk to me, to talk me out of, like, making certain kind of art.
00;26;09;17 - 00;26;29;15
Tiger Cai
So that's a little bit scary. And, that, that's also one of the reason behind why I want to, like, came to the United States to, to studying art and, and, and started my career here because I feel like, okay, if in China I was, I was restricted to, to to do whatever I want.
00;26;29;15 - 00;26;55;05
Tiger Cai
Inking art. Maybe I should, do it in another country then. Then I can to United States come to New York City and I feel, oh, yeah, I can do whatever I want here. And then I can start to talk about, stuffs. And then. And then there are two problem, like one problem, is because I live in my home country.
00;26;55;08 - 00;27;35;29
Tiger Cai
So the topics I want to talk about, those topics that make sense in my country doesn't make quite sense here because the audience change something like, a something that Chinese audience. What care about American audience don't, don't care about it at all. But that's one thing. And then the other thing is, like the the other thing is related to the recent development, to the development in the American politics, because the new administration and a lot of things change.
00;27;35;29 - 00;28;07;14
Tiger Cai
I start to feel like, okay, many things it's, a sway in a way, which I was pretty familiar with. Because, like, I start to feel the, pressure of censorship again, not in China, but here in the United States, because the, if, if, if, people, pay attention to the news, like, they start to do censorship, especially to immigrant.
00;28;07;16 - 00;28;33;06
Tiger Cai
Right? Like if if you, if you express some, some of your, political opinions related to the war in Gaza and then they can, like, stop your visa square strip your queen card or some, maybe even strip your like, citizenship and and to try to deport you. That's what happens in the news every day. So, so all of a sudden I feel okay.
00;28;33;06 - 00;28;59;01
Tiger Cai
This is something I'm, I was very familiar with. That's that's the feeling I, when I was making art in China, you know, then I feel like all this the the, the sense come back to me, which, which caused me like. Because when I was in China, when I want, when I was doing art, I always we have we had many ways to to bypass the censorship.
00;28;59;03 - 00;29;28;12
Tiger Cai
We try to like, hidden our message and, try to be subtle. We try to like, do, a little bit like, you know, swing around and, try to find a, crack or the, the, the space between the, between the restriction and the censorship and all this, like, all this stuff. And now I feel like, okay, maybe I can use that skill again here in United States to make my art.
00;29;28;15 - 00;29;55;00
Rob Lee
Yeah, absolutely. It's it's funny, like, I was at the, some base here in Baltimore, and, I was at the Maryland Art summit. And at the summit, I was speaking there and in the closing, workshop at the summit, it literally was a conversation around arts funding and sort of that's been impacted. So much of you have died somewhere in there.
00;29;55;00 - 00;30;16;26
Rob Lee
So if you're helping these people that are of these races or of this, whatever, you can't have that in there. And listening to the administrators of these organizations that are in, the sort of written words. So writers, poets, someone historians, they were like, oh, we just write it differently. We're still going to try to get this funding that thing.
00;30;16;28 - 00;30;40;24
Rob Lee
And that's that's the thing. It's just like it's don't say it, do whatever you're doing. But I think to to the, to the point like it's if we're talking about some of the things here. Right. It's anti-American in that it's like, isn't this a freedom of speech thing? So like censor freedom of speech like is counter. It's counteract is counterproductive to what the goal it's supposed to be.
00;30;40;28 - 00;30;41;18
Tiger Cai
Yeah, yeah.
00;30;41;24 - 00;31;04;10
Rob Lee
And it makes us I think in this, in this country, I think it makes us less competitive or less interesting to have. This is the only way that you could talk about this. This podcast in itself is a response to a lot of that stuff, like the need in it. It's just like I don't have on who's the most popular artist I don't have on who.
00;31;04;13 - 00;31;25;01
Rob Lee
There are some that are popular artists that come on, but it's folks that I'm curious about talking to and who has an interesting story. And it does have this sort of anti governmental approach of people have said, this is what this person does, and this is what this place is about, specifically coming out of Baltimore, Baltimore is just dangerous and the people in it are bad.
00;31;25;03 - 00;31;36;01
Rob Lee
And I was like, I'm going to disprove that through having these conversations. So it was just an art conversation. But so the real stories are embedded throughout some sneaky, sneaky.
00;31;36;03 - 00;31;51;08
Tiger Cai
Yeah. Well, I totally agree with you. Like art is never about our art is about, like, the world around us. Yeah. Like, if if your art is not about the world around you, then there's probably. It's not good art. It's not interesting at all.
00;31;51;10 - 00;31;59;13
Rob Lee
So you say, you know, you touched on the art historian and the artist. Like, I hear a little art critic, there's a lot like, hey, y'all, it's not good. It's not speaking anything.
00;31;59;15 - 00;32;37;07
Tiger Cai
Yeah, I went too far. But, you know, the the reason I came to America to to start my art career is one of the major reason is United States promised me, like, you have a freedom of speech. That's what I, I didn't have in back in China. Yeah. So that's the reason I'm here right now. And and, through the years, I realized, okay, right now, at this moment, especially like, starting this year, like, okay, this is probably not the case anymore, right?
00;32;37;07 - 00;33;05;00
Tiger Cai
And, and I cannot say, like, I'm not a little bit disappointed, but disappointed or not, as an artist, I won't stop. Like, I won't stop speaking out of my own idea. I won't stop making the art. I want to make. Maybe maybe, just some way you can, you can, you you have to adapt.
00;33;05;02 - 00;33;12;00
Tiger Cai
But it's going to stay the same. I still making, the art I want to make. I still make the point. I want to make.
00;33;12;02 - 00;33;40;23
Rob Lee
It before I move to this next question. It's it's it's, freedom of speech with the terms and conditions or freedom of speech. The fine print is is like historic bears. Like I thought I was just rhino stage. So. So let's move into your work a little bit. So you touched on it earlier. So, you know, you you're building this art life and career in New York City, but also you're building a universe with, Wonderland and, the Future fellow series.
00;33;40;23 - 00;33;46;04
Rob Lee
So can you introduce it to us? You touched on it earlier, but I want to, like, open that back up and touch on that a bit more.
00;33;46;07 - 00;34;31;25
Tiger Cai
Yeah, it's called Wonderland. A sunny, sallow, wonderland of funny shadows. But, Yeah. And then so, so before I, I start to introduce, introduce you about this universe. So I want to talk a little bit about like, the art of before that period, I used to to do animation and, and paintings like very serious, very heavy, very dark, most black and white, you know, I mean, when I say dark, I mean, like both, like, emotionally and, also the, the visual, like, they're very dark and then, it came the pandemic.
00;34;31;27 - 00;35;10;12
Tiger Cai
So during a pandemic, everyone's lot, was locked up at home and they're doing their things. And then I feel, okay, the world is is already, you know, it's our team in us. It's already like, it depressed enough. I don't want to do any black and white and dark stuff anymore. So, I start to explore the color, and, as I started to explore, more kind of light hearted, comical, styles of artmaking.
00;35;10;14 - 00;35;44;21
Tiger Cai
So at that time, I made, a very short sci fi animation, about, about, it's a sci fi story about interstellar, communication. And, in that story, like, alien and, and the human being, mankind fight to eventually establish, communications, through, across the universe. And then both of them, they realize, like, they are both destroying their own world.
00;35;44;23 - 00;36;09;24
Tiger Cai
Yeah. And in the end of that story, both, like the alien planet and, Earths were destroyed by themselves. So it's, it's a very dark comedy. Animation. Yeah. And then after, after I finish, that animation, I start to think, okay, I have something interesting here. Maybe I should should, develop it into a much larger story and a much larger series.
00;36;09;27 - 00;36;44;11
Tiger Cai
And that's just the beginning point of, of the, the series I was doing, I'm doing now called, Wonderland. Funny Fellows. So I started, I started to do, paintings, more animations, and then most often I experimented animations and a more, digital arts, including, like, just pictures, you know, the moving pictures and then, also like a small sculpture, whatever.
00;36;44;11 - 00;37;09;23
Tiger Cai
Anything I can think about, based on the same, topic, same, same word building. So, I tried to build this word. It's talking about this story, of Wonderland, of clinical wonderland. And that is alien culture live on this planet. Colombians, they are basically standing of ourselves in this war, in this, in our chaotic world.
00;37;09;25 - 00;37;35;10
Tiger Cai
And, we have no clue what we are doing right now at this moment. Like we basically, we are effectively, we are basically, destroying the world we are living. We are destroying the environment. We are we are, starting wars and we are like, destroy democracy all, worldwide, not just like in 1 or 2 countries.
00;37;35;12 - 00;38;03;06
Tiger Cai
We are destroying democracy everywhere. And then I transfer this like all this trouble we have right now in our world into that, this, alien planet. And, so, so they are, so they are, they are experiencing like, an environmental crisis. The expressions are experiencing, immigrant issues. They are experiencing, like, all this kind of stuff.
00;38;03;06 - 00;38;38;01
Tiger Cai
We are we are experiencing now. Yeah. So by doing that, it means, like, I'm sugarcoating all this, like troubles we have at this moment and and, with sugarcoating with, like, more cute characters, with more like, vivid color, very vibrant color. And also also with this, like a very, comic approach to this very serious and very, very depressing and a very dark issues we have at this moment.
00;38;38;03 - 00;38;59;04
Tiger Cai
So by doing so, I can, like, force my audience to think about things somewhat, and they probably don't want to think about this like issues like some, some of them, they feel like, okay, this this problem is not my problem. This problem is like, I don't want to I don't want to worry about that. So I show some some of my artwork.
00;38;59;04 - 00;39;25;08
Tiger Cai
They are like very, you know, funny, good looking and a very like colorful, very like, you know, eye candy. Yeah. And then, but but when you look at it for long enough, you start to yourself wonder, oh, what's the story behind that? Yeah. And then you start to learn the story and then you realize, okay, that that's the that's the trouble.
00;39;25;08 - 00;39;29;16
Tiger Cai
That's the, that's the chaos we are in. We are we are in right now.
00;39;29;19 - 00;39;52;15
Rob Lee
It it reminds me of a buddy about a year ago. I went to, moderated this panel on the intersection of comics, art and sort of social justice. And it's always this, this sort of vision where we're going to call you in. Oh, this is funny. These are cat ears. And you're like, oh, they're talking about immigration.
00;39;52;15 - 00;40;20;29
Rob Lee
They're talking about real topics. It's like, yeah, gotcha. Now read it and really put that mirror back on you. Yeah. Caught in by how vivid the color, how great the art is. But now you have to reckon with this. And it's something about that approach and that tracks, you know, for you I find like you always find, you know, even even going back to how you were describing, your, your entry into, your art program and art historian, it's just like I found this other way.
00;40;20;29 - 00;40;39;24
Rob Lee
I found there's not a loop. I found this way around these these rules. I like it, and it's just like, this is the message in through your through your art that you're getting out there, but you're not moralizing. You're not standing on a soapbox and telling someone this is what you should think. It's like I'm drawn, these are just aliens.
00;40;39;24 - 00;40;43;23
Rob Lee
This is just a world that I built. None of that is real. Wink wink.
00;40;43;26 - 00;41;14;16
Tiger Cai
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is this, what you were talking about this like, at the topic is actually, reminds me what's going on right now on the internet. Like this test. Everyone was talking about the new Superman movie, right? And then talking about, because right wing they are, they are very mad about the new super, Superman movie, is about immigration and, and, but the point is that Superman is always about immigration duty.
00;41;14;16 - 00;41;42;22
Tiger Cai
The idea he's like illegal alien living in the United States. So, so that's exactly an example of, like, how you, you can call it sugar coating. You can call it, like, a smuggle. How you, like, hidden your message? Yeah. Through, like a piece of entertainment. Because, like, the, the the setting of Superman was there since the 1930s.
00;41;42;25 - 00;42;06;28
Tiger Cai
It's always there. It's always the message behind it. So. So same thing in my artwork too. Like, I leave it here, like I put everything I want to speak it, talk about in my artwork with this vivid color, vibrant like, very fine point, art styles. I leave it here if you can find it, but that's that's good for you.
00;42;06;28 - 00;42;30;24
Tiger Cai
But if you cannot find it eventually, someday you will. It will snap like, okay, I understand now it's about immigration. It's about like it's a metaphor. It is a metaphor about immigration and immigration and immigrants. Of course it is. So like, US immigration law call people like us aliens. Of course it's, it's, it's, it's a metaphor.
00;42;30;26 - 00;42;31;26
Tiger Cai
It's so obvious.
00;42;32;03 - 00;42;51;08
Rob Lee
So, so would it be fair to say. And, you know, I can't resist that tiger. Tiger style, if you will, is a bit sneaky. Is. It's like, it's a riddle here. There's always some sort of riddle. And because, you know, I thing like you're not spoon feeding it to someone. You're not saying this is what it is.
00;42;51;08 - 00;43;17;22
Rob Lee
It's just like, just enjoy the work. And if you're paying attention to it, you're going to get what's being said in there. And I think that that's really admirable because I think we're in a spot now. We always are looking for for meaning. And I think what you've described thus far is, yeah, the meaning is in there, sort of my beliefs, my thoughts, my ideas, my opinions on these things are in my work.
00;43;17;24 - 00;43;41;15
Rob Lee
But also you can just enjoy it as really good work. Yes. And I think that that's sort of the thing that we have a challenge with because, you know, I'm sure you see this, that we we struggle with nuance. Sometimes it has to be very bombastic, very out there and very direct. But when there's something that has like, let me, let me sit on this for a while, let me think, oh, wow.
00;43;41;15 - 00;44;11;09
Rob Lee
And it sticks versus it immediately hit me. I know exactly what he's saying. That's it. And going back to the point you were making around, sort of Superman was funny. I saw, this clip with former Superman Dean Kane, and he was just like, yeah, of course we know Superman's an immigrant. It's like, yeah, but you glazed over the topic to go back to why this is a bad idea, why this sort of moralizing is bad.
00;44;11;11 - 00;44;36;06
Rob Lee
It's like, no, I think you guys understand it, but. Or aware of the fact that the character is this. But the fact that you guys are so mad about it is an issue. It's a it's a comic character. It's a nearly 100 year old comic character. So if you're mad about, comic character and immigration and what that plight looks like as how do you feel about real people?
00;44;36;08 - 00;44;38;29
Rob Lee
Because it's just.
00;44;39;01 - 00;45;06;22
Tiger Cai
Yeah, yeah. Talking about like, because you mentioning, like, these days, everyone need to be like a spoon fed about, message. So it's actually, it's very related to, to my approach to art because I came from China, a Chinese culture. It's not like just a straightforward like in China. We we believe, like you shouldn't.
00;45;06;25 - 00;45;25;07
Tiger Cai
If you want something, you shouldn't say it aloud. You should like, you should use some other way to express yourself your need for the things. But, it's totally different in United States. If in United States, like, if you want something, you need to shout out loud. Otherwise no one is going to give it to you.
00;45;25;08 - 00;46;17;20
Tiger Cai
Right? So the same thing Arts like in in China with Chinese artists trying to no matter. It's like ancient Chinese artists are like modern day Chinese artists. They, they trying to, two things in a very subtle, manner and then try to, try not to be too radical and I try to be, more, so-called civilized or whatever you call it, subtlety or try to be like, in a way, but in American culture, like, if you want people to see the message behind your artwork, you want to you want it pop up, you want you want to write it down like like the pop art, right?
00;46;17;23 - 00;46;39;28
Tiger Cai
They just they directly write those message by neon lights or by, like the the comic font. Yeah. And then that's that's American art. So I try to find something in between. Like I try I still prefer the Chinese way to hate message in in your artwork. I don't want to say it like to. I don't want it to be too clear.
00;46;39;28 - 00;47;33;13
Tiger Cai
It's it's boring. If it's, like, too obvious, I understand, like the, the we we are dealing with the audience. Like the new generation of audience data. They don't they don't have patience to to see through things to way to to to to the to meaning to to involves. But but it's okay I still I still prefer like to the subtlety of art but on the other, on the other side, I kind of, embrace the idea of, like, the American pop culture and, Americans, I always say Americans addiction to the, loudness of fine wines, colors and all this, like, overwhelming and, overwhelming, visual styles.
00;47;33;15 - 00;47;59;11
Tiger Cai
So that's why, in my artwork, I, I, I sometimes call it tone averse because or this idea that they worship donuts because that's the main, major reason behind why I choose donut as the motif, as the theme of my artwork. Because donut is the perfect metaphor for American culture, which, it's like very sweet.
00;47;59;13 - 00;48;00;10
Rob Lee
Yeah.
00;48;00;13 - 00;48;34;03
Tiger Cai
Actually very unhealthy, but somehow it's very addictive. Yeah. And, and, and, and a very colorful and, and, so, so, like attractive, visually. So, it's a perfect, it's a perfect, way to explain what America culture is. American culture is. And I still remember when I first came to America, I was so drunk at that time, I, I basically a donut every day for lunch because it's cheap.
00;48;34;05 - 00;48;34;27
Rob Lee
Yeah.
00;48;35;00 - 00;48;44;27
Tiger Cai
Yeah. So so so that's the many, many layers of like, why I choose donut as the major motif in my artwork.
00;48;44;29 - 00;49;03;08
Rob Lee
It's it's funny. Like, and I got one last real question before I go to these rapid fire questions for you. But I when I think of donuts. Right. Yeah. I think it's why such an effective motif like, I start off at a baseline of I can accept a donut is fine, just so you can have like a regular plain cake donut.
00;49;03;08 - 00;49;28;17
Rob Lee
No extra sugars are even fried. Sometimes they're baked. But then you see these donuts, it's like it's got bacon on it. And, like, all of these other sugar is like, this is for the top. Now, this is gratuitous. And I think that's I think there's something there where you could have, let's say, not to stick purely with food, but you could have like a cheeseburger and it's like, oh, this cheese has made some on bread.
00;49;28;17 - 00;49;47;28
Rob Lee
That's great. Oh, well, we need to have a, you know, four burgers on one bun. And it's just it's layers to it and the ones that are the most extreme overindulgent I don't want, I don't care about. It's like a donut in itself or a burger in this example in itself is good enough. Why does it have to go to this, this sort of very extreme level.
00;49;48;00 - 00;50;10;21
Rob Lee
And we we don't do subtlety here. And having to, to spoon feed it and I think of it, this would be the last point I have on it. I think of movies right where I used to always rant about. I like horror movies a lot. I used to always rant about if it's a PG 13 horror movie, it's not good.
00;50;10;27 - 00;50;36;25
Rob Lee
Now I've just had an idea. It's not good art if it's not saying anything, but it's not good because the attempt to make something that's you're trimming down the violence, you're trimming down these, these different elements. And if it's a werewolf moving as PG in some ways, that being chewed up or whatever, it's, you know, they're not saying that you want that, but you're taming this thing to hit the largest audience because money is the biggest thing.
00;50;36;27 - 00;50;59;28
Rob Lee
PG 13 is that sort of I can get the kids and the adults versus I made something that was really good. Violence is part of it, but I'm not being gratuitous in it. And I think doing it in that very wide swiping, sort of spoon fed way, I think it's disrespectful, frankly, to the audience, to the people that, oh, you get it.
00;51;00;02 - 00;51;02;08
Rob Lee
You know, I think it's slightly disrespectful.
00;51;02;10 - 00;51;25;19
Tiger Cai
Yeah. Yeah, I, I share exactly the same feeling with you. Like it's talking about movies. Like I feel like the, audience of many Hollywood movie is like they try to explain everything to the audience. Otherwise they are they're afraid. Like, audience cannot get it. Yeah, I who cares? Audience get it or not? Like that's a part of the movie.
00;51;25;19 - 00;51;52;00
Tiger Cai
Like the figuring out part is the part of the movie. So it's the same thing for my heart. Like, you know, if you cannot figure out, it's totally fine. Like, when, when people enjoy art, you have many different layers, different levels. You can purely just enjoy the storm, the color of the art. Yeah. You can also enjoy the meaning behind it.
00;51;52;02 - 00;52;19;28
Tiger Cai
You can also enjoy the background, like all the other stuff like the backgrounds, the artist, the the, motivation behind a behind, like why the art is created. Art, like they have many, many different layers. You cannot say like which layer is like the best layer, right? So, so as long as you enjoy like what's one certain elements of art that's good enough.
00;52;20;01 - 00;52;48;21
Tiger Cai
So if audience cannot like story get what I want to talk about in my art, I, I already have peace with that. It's okay. But for me, as artists, what I want to do is I want to provide a different layer. So. So if an audience stand in front of my, my painting or in my animations, they see, like this layer, and then they see there is a layer.
00;52;48;21 - 00;53;10;29
Tiger Cai
And then the third layer of it. Then down to that will be a big success for me as an artist. But so some I'm on my side, I have to prepare like all these layers for them, but how many layers they get, they can get, it's it's on their side. It's not my concern.
00;53;11;01 - 00;53;36;04
Rob Lee
Right? It's for them. It's for them. You're doing your side of it. You. Once you've put it out there, you've done your part. Your job is not to explain it. It's so, so this is a precursor to the rapid fire questions. That's one of like, so we're recording this in July of 2025. So for the remainder of 2025 and to 2026, what's like what what's got you curious which got you interested?
00;53;36;04 - 00;53;38;02
Rob Lee
What's what's coming next for you?
00;53;38;05 - 00;54;02;14
Tiger Cai
So at this moment, I just, like, two months ago, I just, did, the show you went to spring break show. So after that, I right now, I still have another show in Los Angeles. But I, I feel like probably, I don't know how long you need to add to this, but I won't.
00;54;02;16 - 00;54;29;20
Tiger Cai
This episode was, is released to show it's already over because it's already the last week of the show. After that. So I don't have any, like, art show coming up, because at this moment, my, I have my 100% of my attention and, energy into this project I'm making right now. It's, animation, a short animation.
00;54;29;22 - 00;55;02;21
Tiger Cai
You can call it a film or video art. It's a short animation I'm making, and I try to catch up some of the major deadline of those, film festivals, some major film festivals. So I spent all my energy working on that. And to see, like, if I could catch those deadlines, if everything work, ideally, the, project will premiere in, spring next year, 2026.
00;55;02;23 - 00;55;40;17
Tiger Cai
Yeah. So it's, because I always do animation. I do a 2D animation all the times. I love 2D, much, much more over 3DS. So it's, 2D animation about everything that's going on in this world right now. Yeah. So it's a very heavy, animation. It's a about a many, like, very heavy topic, but, as usual, I try to, present it in a comic way and, sugar coating it with, like a very, vibrant color and, and a very cute characters.
00;55;40;20 - 00;56;09;19
Tiger Cai
But, yeah, I, I always spend like 3 or 4 months on a project. I've probably spent another like three and, we'll see. After, this is just what I'm doing now. It's, it's a huge one. I, it's, also it's related to all my, previous art work. Yeah. And, I'm I'm enjoying doing it.
00;56;09;19 - 00;56;11;24
Tiger Cai
It's a lot of hard work, but I'm. I'm really enjoying to.
00;56;11;24 - 00;56;29;08
Rob Lee
It's I love it. And, Yeah, I mean, getting getting out there and kind of being in the lab, as it were, working on sort of the animation and so that the next stage, it's being able to give time and attention to the work that that matters and the work that really drives you. So that's great. It's great to hear that.
00;56;29;08 - 00;56;34;09
Rob Lee
And, yeah, I'll be following Instagram to see what's out there. As far as these updates.
00;56;34;11 - 00;56;46;02
Tiger Cai
Yeah. Thank you, thank you. And, yeah, I, I enjoy talking to, with you and, and glad to learn like, we share a lot of, like, similar opinion and a lot of different kind of things.
00;56;46;05 - 00;56;50;06
Rob Lee
Because we're wearing glasses that we have beards, that's all. Yeah.
00;56;50;09 - 00;57;01;16
Unknown
No no no no no no no no no no no no no.
00;57;01;16 - 00;57;20;21
Rob Lee
So let me, let me hit you with these rapid fire questions before we close out here. And my rapid fire questions, they're designed to help me and, and the listeners get to know the person behind the great art, behind the the story or what have you. And it's it's easy to forget the human element that's at the root of a lot of this great work.
00;57;20;23 - 00;57;33;26
Rob Lee
So earlier in the podcast and these are just meant to be fast questions. Fast answers. Earlier on the podcast, you mentioned, you wanted to be a mangaka. So who comes to mind? Who's one of your favorites?
00;57;33;28 - 00;57;53;00
Tiger Cai
And I have so many, manga artists I love, but, the major one, like in for me. For me, most was the one, with the world just last. All right. The,
00;57;53;02 - 00;57;54;01
Rob Lee
Territorial. Yeah.
00;57;54;05 - 00;57;57;26
Tiger Cai
Akira. Yeah.
00;57;57;28 - 00;58;00;13
Rob Lee
That, now you got to be sad.
00;58;00;15 - 00;58;29;03
Tiger Cai
The current. Because, like, the reason why I said, like, of course, because, like, I'm from China. In China, we have different name, for him. But anyway, the reason, because of that, he might not be the most artistic, manga artist out there because they are more more and more like, the, many, many more, like, very artistic.
00;58;29;05 - 00;59;02;08
Tiger Cai
Manga. Menchaca. Like, what's the other name? Araki. That, the artist who did Jojo series. Yeah. Right. He's he's basically a restoration artist. Illustrator? So Dragon Ball is was not, the most artistic, manga out there, but it's the the one who influenced me the most, because at that time, I was just a small kid in China.
00;59;02;11 - 00;59;27;16
Tiger Cai
That's the first time, manga book I, I got, my henna was. And then, that's basically, that's the starting point. I start to learn, like, how to draw a manga. I just do the, I just try to mimic the style, and I try to copy the page from afar. This, from Dragon Ball, I try to draw, Goku and, every day.
00;59;27;16 - 00;59;42;22
Tiger Cai
So that's just us. That's basically the starting point. The beginning? Yeah. That, the starting story of me being an artist. I started with, like, copy, Dragon Ball.
00;59;42;24 - 01;00;01;22
Rob Lee
It's funny, you mentioned that, when I was younger, I wanted to be a, illustrator. I want to be a comic artist. And I used to try to do it. I used to do. I did the test and all of that stuff. That was my main focus. And I would take the Wizard magazines I had, like the comic clay collector's magazines, and I would try to draw different pages out of that.
01;00;01;24 - 01;00;29;25
Rob Lee
That's just really what I was doing as a kid. I still have my art books and all of that stuff in the studio, what, almost 30 years later? Which it feels weird to say that, but I've, I have that stuff. And yeah, illustration in in Dragon Ball from a more personal sort of component. Me and a lot of folks of my demo, you know, black guy Dragon Ball was sort of our entry point into to anime, into manga.
01;00;29;28 - 01;00;36;27
Rob Lee
So I want to move to the next one. What color has the most meaning to you?
01;00;36;29 - 01;00;57;17
Tiger Cai
I like color, yes. If you look at my artwork like, I just, the, the most thing I hate at this moment is like, oh, why why there isn't, like, more color in this world. Yeah. Like, I like, I feel like sometimes I feel, oh, I already tried so many different color I hope, I wish there are more color I can try.
01;00;57;19 - 01;01;26;18
Tiger Cai
But, among all the color, I use and trust me, I use every color. Mankind already gives color. And then, the the the color I like most is, I would say is orange. Okay. I don't know why, but I feel like orange is, just hit, the spots, you know, like, like, you know, it's not that red, but it's not that yellow is something in between.
01;01;26;18 - 01;01;42;08
Tiger Cai
It's probably is the subtlety, you know, it's it's it's it's it's it's created from two different colors. Yeah. But also it's become something like, entirely new, you know. So I don't know I don't know how to explain it, but it's orange.
01;01;42;10 - 01;02;03;26
Rob Lee
I mean, it's one of the colors that has a fruit named after it. So it's. Yeah. Yeah, of course it's that much more important. We don't call bananas yellow. You know, it's just a banana. That's that's just everyday comedian at one point, I really like, sort of the midtones. I like green. I really enjoy, Burgundy as well.
01;02;03;26 - 01;02;23;25
Rob Lee
Or, or maroon oxblood, anything in that vein, or I call it blood of my enemies because, you know, that's the color. So here's the last one I got for you. Which, so you you mentioned earlier the that donuts was one of those, as they say, struggle meals. I'm broke. Donuts are cheap. I can eat them.
01;02;23;27 - 01;02;46;20
Rob Lee
I'm sure you're sick of donuts. Now, what would be as far as being a New York? What is that? You eat a really expensive meal you've had. Like, you know, you've let's say you got like a really nice piece of money or whatever. What was the expensive meal? Me, I always try to get sushi. Like I went to a really nice restaurant for my, birthday a couple years back.
01;02;46;20 - 01;02;59;14
Rob Lee
And I was like, all right, this is like $300 off a sushi I just had. This is amazing. This is great. And I'm not. I'm much. So for you, what is, that really, like, baller meal that you've had?
01;02;59;17 - 01;03;28;05
Tiger Cai
Oh, so is, the sushi will be exactly my choice to. Yeah, because I love sushi. I love Japanese food. I even though I'm Chinese. Japanese food is, is similar, but it's two different, Chinese food. Yeah. So that's the right amount of, like, you know, alienates in food. So I really, I really enjoy sushi.
01;03;28;07 - 01;03;57;15
Tiger Cai
Maybe, maybe I could try to, try besides sushi, anything. Maybe. I, in my mind, is, maybe I want to try, Korean barbecue. Like, some very fancy, like, high end Korean barbecue. Because, my parents, they used to rent, Korean barbecue restaurant in China. So I grew up. I grew up with Korean barbecue, but, my parents restaurant, they were, like, very grassroots.
01;03;57;15 - 01;04;08;12
Tiger Cai
It's very, like, affordable. Yeah. So I want to try something like a very high end, sometimes different from my parents version.
01;04;08;15 - 01;04;40;01
Rob Lee
That's a that's good. I know that are, attempts here, and I'm very, I'm a purist when it comes to food. So I'm like, I look for who's there, and I like a lot of, but it's a lot of, I don't know if that's authentic right there, guys. You know, like, what is that? And I see a lot of, Korean barbecue spots and hot pot spots sort of popping up, and I'm like, it's like, if I have any friends that are in, like, you know, sort of that, that community and they can speak to it and like, is this good or is this B.S.?
01;04;40;02 - 01;05;00;19
Rob Lee
And I ask, I have a buddy who's, who's who's Japanese or have Japanese American. And, when I ventured into trying green tea, I'm a big coffee drinker. And the first person I asked, I was like, yo, this sounds weird. Let's get past it. What should I be looking for in a good green tea? And he gave me sort of the full rundown.
01;05;00;19 - 01;05;08;24
Rob Lee
He's like, don't waste your money, do this, this, this and this. And that's what I listen to. It's sort of like you're an authority in this area. You drink your tea.
01;05;08;27 - 01;05;09;23
Tiger Cai
Yeah. Well.
01;05;09;26 - 01;05;27;29
Rob Lee
That's that's where I go with it. So in these final moments, there's two things I want to do. One, thank you so much for coming on to this podcast and spending some time with me. It's, truly been a pleasure to to chat with you and hear those similarities that we have and sort of how we approach things.
01;05;28;01 - 01;05;39;11
Rob Lee
And, and to, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can find you and follow you on social media, your website, any things that you want to close out on the floor is yours.
01;05;39;14 - 01;06;07;14
Tiger Cai
To thank you to chew for allowing me to share my experience with your audience. And then you can find me on Instagram. My screen handle is, Tiger PT you supposed to me photo because when I register, this account, I was a photography student and then, Tiger pt and I'll also, if you're a tiger typing tiger Thai tiger.
01;06;07;14 - 01;06;29;00
Tiger Cai
Sigh. You can find the ice grants. And I also have a website. It's called Tiger Tony ounce. Hi.com. But, I feel like, this days no one is like a browsing website anymore, so probably like Instagram is the better choice to follow.
01;06;29;02 - 01;06;54;14
Rob Lee
And there you have it, folks. I want to again, thank Tiger Thai for coming on to the podcast and sharing a bit of his work and his story with us. And for Tiger, I am Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it.