And welcome to The Truth in His Heart. I am your host, Rob Lee, and I am just over the moon. I'm super excited to welcome my next guest. Please welcome Tonya Mosley. Welcome to the podcast.
Tonya Mosley:Rob, thank you so much. I am excited to be in conversation with you.
Rob Lee:It's just it's gonna be great. I'm I'm looking forward to this, and I've been, like, looking forward to this since we got it booked. I've been sitting here. It's like, alright. What am I gonna research?
Rob Lee:What's the angle? How are we gonna do this? But as as I start off as I have 2 customs, right, that I like to do when I start. One is a little weird, but it makes sense. Thank you.
Rob Lee:I wanna thank you for wearing your glasses. Whenever there's a fellow 4 eyed person on, I always thank them for wearing their glasses.
Tonya Mosley:Well, you know I'm a public radio person, and so we're all supposedly nerds. So, you know, I can wear my glasses with pride.
Rob Lee:So you get it. And the second part of this sort of, like, introduction thing, and everyone doesn't get it because everyone doesn't put their their glasses on. I want to, invite you to, you know, introduce yourself. And one of the reasons I like to do that is I find often we get these online bios. We get these really well thought out and well worded things, but somehow the essence of who the person is missed is like, it's always a detail.
Rob Lee:Like, as you, you know, do this intro, you may end up mentioning, like, yeah, you know, for 5 years of my life, I was a boxer. Like, that's not your bio. So I like to have the, you know, person introduce themselves. So if you will, please.
Tonya Mosley:Well, yes. I am Tonya Mosley, and, you know, when people ask me who I am, I think the first thing that always comes to me is that I am a Motown girl. I'm a Detroit girl through and through. Even though I really realized recently that I have been away from home longer than I was at home. Meaning, I left at 18 to go to college, and I lived there for a few years after college, but since then, I have been living in lots of other places.
Tonya Mosley:But first and foremost, I am a Detroit girl, I am a Moseley through and through, and the Moseleys are Detroiters and Mississippians, and, I'm a mother, I am a daughter, and I'm a really good friend, and I'm also a storyteller. And I tell stories through journalism, but I also tell them through fiction writing, and traditional podcasting, where I'm doing narratives, and so that is who I am, and I love talking to people, and I love learning new things.
Rob Lee:Okay. We're we're gonna get along here. Thank you for that. I, you know, I see some some similar touch points here as I was doing the research, and I was just like, alright. This is going to go well.
Rob Lee:This is going to go well. So so stepping back a little bit, I I read that you dreamed of being a journalist from a very young age, from being a and being a teenager. Right? Yeah. What was it about journalism or or storytelling that planted that seed that set you towards that path?
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. You know, I like to I like to be obnoxious and actually clarify that to say, like, I, from a very, very young age, like from the moment I could speak, knew I wanted to tell stories in some way. And when I got to high school, I was already a working journalist, so I was an apprentice for the Detroit Free Press, and I was paid to write stories, and I did that for almost 3 years. I was a nerd, so I would write to the Detroit Free Press, the editor, the news editor, over the front page, his name was Michael McGregor, and he would write me back. And what was it?
Tonya Mosley:I was 13, 14 years old at the time, and he invited me to the free press to go on a tour of the newsroom, and I knew that was where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do, and they were starting a program for high schoolers, and I was one of the first to be a part of that program, which is still going on today. But, yeah, I I just knew that I wanted to be able to tell stories in some way, and journalism was a way to do that.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. I have a follow-up question to that, but I I definitely wanna chime in on this this one piece where, you know, it's it's something about, I guess, teenager, right, where I remember having one of my first handy recorders.
Tonya Mosley:Oh. I was
Rob Lee:I was I was at City College in Baltimore. It's one of those at least at the time. You know, you leave your high school, and it's like, it was great until I left. So it's that. Right?
Rob Lee:And while I was there, it's very, very tough school to kinda, like, stay in really high academics. And, you know, you wouldn't know if your friends would be there, look, sort of the next year. So I was going by with a handy recorder, you know, just chiming in and having folks share their story what that freshman year was like with this little handy recorder. Now the problem with that, at the time, was I was very obnoxious. I would talk in the 3rd person like the what?
Rob Lee:Yeah. Really setting the stage here, and I would get some of the weirdest response initially, and then I would just make it seem like it's an interview, really, you know, asking these questions of, you know, my fellow students, but they had to get past me speaking in the 3rd person like a wrestler in 1999.
Tonya Mosley:Wait. Do you still have some of those recordings?
Rob Lee:I plead the 5th on those. I'm gonna keep that hidden. I have them Somebody,
Tonya Mosley:your mom, your family, y'all gotta dig those up somewhere. Yeah.
Rob Lee:It's it's probably next to the rap songs I did also in high school. Again, different things, different times. We won't talk about it. There was a Macbeth rap song that I did.
Tonya Mosley:Oh, now I need to. I need to find those tapes. We gotta find those.
Rob Lee:So so so going back, you know, with that that sort of the initial, like, you know, storytelling initial, like, writing, what was the first story that comes to mind for you? What was that experience like? Could you take us back a bit?
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. So I was 15 years old, and Clarence Thomas was being confirmed. And at this point, the Detroit Free Press, I was an apprentice, but they had started this experiment of, with Wayne State University, where they, started a paper called Motown Teen, and once a month, Motown Teen would be published, and I was given the assignment of, of doing a story on Clarence Thomas being confirmed. So I went to the University of Michigan to talk with a law professor, and I prepared myself with an instructor on how to have this interview. I walked in that woman's office, and I think my first question was like, Rob, I just want to set this up for you that I was a 15 year old black girl, and so my world view was just expanding.
Tonya Mosley:But I think I asked her something to the fact of, like, how can you be because I knew she was also a Republican. Like, how could you be a black person and be a Republican, and also be in support of, like, this this nominee? Yeah. And she really schooled me. She said, you know, that's a biased question, and obviously, you're ignorant.
Tonya Mosley:You don't know your history around black people and the Republican party. Yeah. And, she was right. I didn't, and it was a biased question, but I left there in tears, and I did not have the interview, and I had to go back to the, newsroom at the Detroit Free Press, and talk with my instructor, and tell them, like, I don't have the goods. And I was able to write the story without those quotes, and I got some other quotes, but it was a lesson for me.
Tonya Mosley:It was like my first lesson on, on, like, what not to do. Right.
Rob Lee:Oh, wow. That's I I I think even now at at 39, I would I would cry and say, oh, no. I just I botched it. I didn't I didn't get it right. Or, you know, like, I've had the opportunity, especially in the last year, to talk to folks who are, like, professionals in journalism and storytelling and really picking picking their brain because I wanna improve at what I do in doing this.
Rob Lee:And, you know, 800 plus episodes in for this podcast in 16 years, so as 16 years as a podcaster, it's just like you always wanna learn and especially now being an educator and teaching the next generation of young podcasters how to do their thing. I'm like, that's a bad question, or maybe you should think about that differently. I start thinking about it through that, but that's through sort of repetition and being able to have insightful conversations with folks such as yourself.
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. And, you know, I mean, it comes with experience in reps, like interacting with people, having conversations with people, learning about human behavior, and understanding those things that are beyond, like, the journalistic principles of what's biased, what's not. It's really about establishing relationships with people, and I was just learning that. You know, I walked in that woman's office, you know, with these questions. It was trial by fire in a great way, but it didn't turn me off.
Tonya Mosley:It actually invigorated me, you know, and I learned from it.
Rob Lee:That's great. And, you know, one other thing before I move into this this next question is, you know, I I I try to get that feedback from folks and, you know, being very much an an independent ear, and, I talk with my partner, and I was like, I'm gonna listen to you. You you know, listen to black women. And, you know
Tonya Mosley:Right.
Rob Lee:Oh, it's got me this far. And she she would tell me, like, really directly, it's like, just be neutral. Your your job is to be neutral. And, you know, you're you're kinda guiding maybe a conversation, but you don't wanna insert yourself too much into it. And especially as I observe sort of what happens now, and this is actually a conversation I had earlier today about a another sort of podcaster in their way well, actually, radio host, in their way of interviewing folks, to use the wrestling term, to try to get themselves over versus the conversation.
Rob Lee:Hey. I'm so smart. I'm so interested, or this is such a hot take. And that's fine, but that's not what I do. And I try even when I'm doing the education thing.
Rob Lee:What why does it matter to you? What do you care about in it? And that should guide the direction of maybe who you interview and, you know, in that that context or even how you're approaching interview.
Tonya Mosley:Yes. And, you know, and so I I'm glad you brought this up because from the majority of my career, I've been a reporter, correspondent, I've been out in the field interviewing people, and then putting it together in a story, so packaging it up in a story, whether it's for television or for the radio, or for writing, for print. But as a host, you know, one of the things that I do in my work as a host is when I'm preparing to talk to somebody, I first have to get over myself, like, I I talk to myself about, like, why do I wanna talk to this person? Why do I find them interesting? What are the things that are, like, personal to me?
Tonya Mosley:And work through those so that I can get over that, so that when I get into my conversation with that person, my own self interest and selfishness is not at the forefront of this conversation, you know? And I can give you an example of, just interviewing, like, my favorite folks, you know? I interviewed, Pharrell not too long ago, and, you know, of course, like, I immediately wanna tell him, you know, so many of your songs are the soundtrack of my life, you know. Like, I wanna take you back to this one time when, like, this thing, or, you know, just like you, I, when I was a kid, felt othered. Like, all of these things, you know, I want that's the fan in me, but that's the thing I have to get over, because I have to realize that my role is to illuminate his humanity and his story, and so anything that has to do with our commonalities should be for that sole purpose, so that, like, my listeners can learn something new about him, you know?
Tonya Mosley:So but it's something you have to work at, right? Because the inclination is to, as human beings, want to relate to people. You know?
Rob Lee:See, like I was saying before we got started, you know, when I let the guests cook, you're over there cooking. You answered 2 more questions. So shout out to making my job easy. I need to turn my mic off. So and thank you and thank you for that because that's that's a really big big point, big distinction there.
Rob Lee:Like, when I go through and I'm doing an interview, the the the sort of drive is knowledge and curiosity. But to your to your point, it's like trying to turn off, you know, sort of my fanboyism or even to a degree, maybe my nerves. And even when I'm looking at someone, I, you know, I'm like, there's the potential of interviewing someone I'm a big fan of. I might sit there and kinda, like, write questions just in case. You never know when that call comes, and then I go through the questions over and over.
Rob Lee:Some people may do the chat GPT of filtering it. Nah. I'm going through personally to see, like, alright. Let me take a little bit of this out of there. How do I get that person talking a bit more and opening up and sharing a bit more to really get comfortable and really, as you touch on, sort of illuminate their humanity?
Tonya Mosley:Mhmm. Yes. Yes. So your career let's let's talk
Rob Lee:a bit about that. Your career has grown steadily. Like, again, I'm, like, looking at the track, I was like, how many really? That as well? And gathering stories from communities, big and small, throughout the the country.
Rob Lee:That's that's one of the things that, again, aspirational. Could you share, like, maybe an early experience that, you know, still motivates you in that vein of your, you know, kind of being out there in the field? And that's different from, like, I'm based in Baltimore. Most of my interviews are here, but a transformative period for me is really because as an independent, really reaching out to some folks in Texas I saw that were interested in my work and that they had a story that was there, and I was like, alright. I'm gonna go to Texas.
Rob Lee:We're gonna do it. And I look back at that on other instances where I leave Baltimore, the sort of comfort zone, go to these other places, just bringing this brand of storytelling with me. But I always look back at Austin, Texas. What is that example for you, like, earlier in your career, even more recently within your career of just kinda going out there that that still motivates you?
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. Well, I'll say that from a very young age, I I always said if I weren't a journalist, I would be a researcher of some sort, because I just love digging for information. I love learning, and, in many ways, it's a selfish endeavor because it's like a it's something I just love to do for self satisfaction to know. I used to, back in the day, so to show you how old I am, you know, before the Internet, and I would go to the main library and just research, just dig, read all the periodicals, go through like different books and things like that and subjects. And, that was very fulfilling for me.
Tonya Mosley:And when the Internet, became a thing, like in fact, it was great that it wasn't part of my childhood, because I probably would have got swept up online, honestly. I would have been just like in my room, holed up on the Internet all the time, because, you know, it's a never ending well of information. But early in my career, I still look back so fondly, and I feel giddy at those first, experiences of being able to go out in the field and interview people for a story, and then put a story together based on what I collected. Like, it is it's a it is, it's such an exhilarating experience, and it never goes every day the way you expect it to go, because that's how human beings are.
Rob Lee:Sure.
Tonya Mosley:But when you live in a community, I love local news. In my early career, I was a local news reporter for, television stations, and just understanding your community, seeing things in your community, and like following up on those things, and finding out their stories behind the things that you notice, and and then being able to illuminate it by telling those stories to the public, it's it's like a drug, because you realize you have the power to inform people, to change the hearts and minds of people, or have them reflect or self reflect on themselves. And storytelling allows people to see themselves, that's all it is. You know, whether it is a story that is completely different from yours, in that way, you're able to self reflect, or if it's just like yours or very similar, it's able it's it gives you the ability to have a deeper understanding of yourself. And so, those early days were really great because I was learning the craft, and, with every experience, you know, I would get better and better.
Rob Lee:Again, it's it's it's the reps that you you touched on and
Tonya Mosley:Exactly. Yep.
Rob Lee:I try to, this is a weird aside before I move into this next question. I tried to add a different experience to sort of podcasting. So I think it rewires certain things where kind of get into autopilot and say, oh, I know how to do this. Hit record, ask the questions, make sure you've emailed the person, all of that stuff. And I find that, you know, it's not all the time, but maybe once a quarter, you know, I'll do something that's really different.
Rob Lee:And, you know, here in here in Baltimore, I was, working with a, arts and music festival in helping with some of the, I guess, storytelling, the retroactive of, producing the event with different producers in the city. So, you know, here's some money put to put on a show. Basically, that's sort of what the setup is and really empowering the local creatives. So, you know, I was asked to do an interview. I don't know how to swim.
Rob Lee:Just I'm gonna put in that right there. Right? I was asked to do an interview in a boat. It was a small boat, and we were just going to roll around the inner harbor of Baltimore. It was 4 of us on this boat, and it was, you know, a little water creeping in there.
Rob Lee:I was like, oh, then the really big boats are coming next to us, and then the speed boats, and I was like, oh, so this is where I die. Got it. And I was like, oh, there's the black box. I was like, I can read the headline now. Local sealess celebrity podcaster drowns in our harbor.
Rob Lee:And I asked the other, folks, another person I was interviewing and the photographer, I was like, can either of you swim? They're like, oh, no. I was like, oh, so we're all gone.
Tonya Mosley:We're odd.
Rob Lee:But I'll say the experience of doing that, and I didn't buckle at all. And the person driving the boat was just like, I was enthralled. Like, you you were crushing this. And I was just like, yes, my feet are wet. You know?
Rob Lee:Right. But it it was an invigorating experience. So any of those podcasts following that, they were special, they were important, but that one is sort of one of those milestones and one of those sort of like, alright, here's a stretch rep. I need to go a little heavy on this weight.
Tonya Mosley:Did you have on a life jacket?
Rob Lee:I'm gonna plead the 5th on that one. That's why I did. I did. I I was safe. Yes.
Tonya Mosley:I thought I'd say, like, woah. I'm not going to I have a confession to make. I have been on boats, many boats in my career, stories, and I don't know how to swim either. You know, it's actually in my 2025, list of resolutions that I'm going to overcome this and learn how to swim. What about you?
Rob Lee:I may be there with you. I think I wanna learn how to ride a bike first. I'm a land guy. See, Aquarius is right. We're water barriers, but we're not in the water.
Rob Lee:Yeah. Yeah.
Tonya Mosley:So you you don't know how to ride a bike either?
Rob Lee:Do you ride a
Tonya Mosley:bike as a child?
Rob Lee:I, we used to skateboard, actually. That was sort of what our our thing was. Yeah.
Tonya Mosley:Oh, well, if you can skateboard, you can get on a bike. That'll be no problem for you.
Rob Lee:Debatable. I'm I'm very tall, and my limbs all over the place.
Tonya Mosley:Wait. How tall are you?
Rob Lee:6 4.
Tonya Mosley:Oh, you are tall. Is your family tall?
Rob Lee:No. My dad's 5 9, my mom's 5 3.
Tonya Mosley:Wow. Where
Rob Lee:did you
Tonya Mosley:come from? Somebody in your family. It has to go even back further generations, maybe?
Rob Lee:Yeah. Probably. I think, I had a few uncles that were in the 6 5 sort of range.
Tonya Mosley:Yeah.
Rob Lee:It sticks out. Yeah. Because even my brother is short as well. He's, like, also 5 9. It's like he and I look exactly the same, but he's, like, a lot shorter than me.
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. You're taller. Awesome.
Rob Lee:So, let's if if you will, I wanna move into NPR a little bit. So reading, you know, sort of your coverage on just major events highlighting the intersection of politics, race, culture, these are these, you know, certain amount of care, obviously, that goes with some of the some of the topics. And, you know, and I and I love that. I love that that's something that's being being addressed and being covered. And that's like in your wheelhouse again, the reps.
Rob Lee:And I find, like, you know, news right now, like, has this sort of it's a rush to get it out there. It's like getting it out there quick versus getting it right. And I I see this a lot of times, even with something as simple as, let's say, ESPN. I love Rocky 4. Right?
Rob Lee:And when, Carl Weathers passed away, I'm looking at the article in ESPN, and I was like, there are factual things that are wrong in here. And something in I'm not, like, scanning for that, but because I love that movie, I'm, like, looking at those details, and I was like, well, you gotta get this thing out there. I was like, maybe another set of eyes or something along those lines. And that's something that's on this, you know, not as important, but it is it is a story that was out there. For for you and sort of your your take and your insight, what are some of the considerations when there's, like, a story that's a big story, like, gotta get it out there, gotta get it out there as as quickly as possible, but also you wanna get it right, obviously.
Rob Lee:How do you go about that? What are your sort of, like, insights and your thoughts on sort of speed and accuracy, I suppose?
Tonya Mosley:Well, I will first say it's really unfortunate when, you find errors in, subjects that you know about or just in new stories, period, because it it further further erodes the trust that, the public has in media. And, you know, that's been going on for quite some time. Like, it's not something new. I actually think that we are now at the almost the almost like a free fall, a major devolvement in the public's trust of mainstream media in a way that is really alarming and scary. And if I had the answers, like, I probably would just be, you know, a millionaire at this point, because I could help solve it.
Tonya Mosley:But I will say, one of the reasons why I feel honored to work in public media is because there is that care around facts, and the effort to get it right. We are human beings, so there are errors that happen all the time. But in this news cycle that's so fast, with so many players who are disseminating news, you know, you never have to go to a mainstream news, organization, to their website, or to their TV show, or to, you know, on the radio to get the information you can find in lots of other places. And with that, it becomes a challenge for a place like NPR, who wants to also make certain that as well as getting it right, they are the eyes that are on it, you know. The longer you wait, the less relevant you become in the discourse around that news event.
Tonya Mosley:But it is a budget cuts have have really decimated newsrooms in a way that, you know, back when I was a little, when I was young in high school, working for the Detroit Free Press, where there were 3 floors that made up the news division, and today, it's like half of one floor. You know, there's, that erosion also plays a part in in the errors that you might see in in, in news articles. So your question to me was, what are the considerations I take with my work?
Rob Lee:Sure.
Tonya Mosley:And currently, as a host, I do so much research on the subjects that I'm going to interview. You know, I interview for fresh air, I do 2 long form interviews a week, and I'm talking with my guests for up to 2 hours. And so I have to know as much about them as possible, but there's something that I've learned in doing that is, even with my resource material, in my research, a lot of it is sometimes inaccurate. And in talking with my the folks that I'm interviewing, I will learn it. They'll say, oh, yeah, you know, that was written about me, and that is not true.
Tonya Mosley:So, you know, and so I've learned just how prevalent it is, because I have never experienced this in my career. I have made mistakes, but I have never made egregious, errors in my journalism. And that's because I do abide by the journalistic principles of making certain that there is fact checking. They're not just two sides to a story, but maybe there are 3 or 4. And I've been very fortunate to work for news organizations that give me that time to be able to do that within the barriers of the deadline, of course.
Tonya Mosley:Sure. But it's a challenge.
Rob Lee:I don't
Tonya Mosley:even know if I answered your question wrong. No.
Rob Lee:No. No.
Tonya Mosley:You you did. It's a challenge, You know?
Rob Lee:No. You did. And and thank you for that because it's it's it's insight and it's, you know, I think sort of the behind the curtain of what it looks like within the the industry. I think that it gives a lot of context on what's there. Like, it's a weird comparison, but I'll make it.
Rob Lee:I go to I'm a snob about certain things. And this might this question might come up later in the rapid fire one. So even the great time, mostly we'll get the rapid fire questions. But I, I go to I really like chefs. I really like restaurants and all of that different stuff.
Rob Lee:And I find that at times when I go there, I'm very forgiving of let's say there's an error and rarely send things back. Right. But when there's those those instances where I feel like I haven't been informed about, like, maybe something is off the menu or maybe the preparation or how something is is done is a lot different, I'm like, there was a communication lapse, and this ain't the this isn't the first. And that's where sort of I'm a little less forgiving, but on the basis of it, it's like I understand that things can change. You might have had crab that morning, Baltimore.
Rob Lee:You might have had crab that morning, and now you you don't have crab or the quality of a particular ingredient is not quite there. But if I'm making that that that order, for instance, is up to the hostess. It's up to someone to inform me so I can have a better, you know, formed decision versus thinking I'm gonna get some delicious crab, and it's just like, you know, what is what is this? You know? It's sort of it's sort of that I wanna know going in.
Rob Lee:And, you know, the other thing I think in covering some of the folks that I cover and over the last, let's say, 5 years, this sort of concept of, like, news literacy just kind of being able to social media is weird, and a lot of people use it as their prime news source, and I think it should be a bit more diverse. You get a sense of what are the different angles, the different sides, the the 3 or 4 other sides versus the initial 2. And, I find, like, you know, being out there, not everyone is able to do it, and you have certain things presented as as truth. And it's kind of limited. It's just like and even with sort of social media, I remember spending time, probably a little further back, but spending time on, like, Facebook.
Rob Lee:And I just remember my feed was very specific, and I was like, oh, right. So now instead of getting a news feed, I'm getting this sort of curated thing that's kind of informing the perception.
Tonya Mosley:Yep. Yeah. It's an echo chamber because the algorithm is now feeding you more things that you have engaged with, that are like the things that you have engaged with, and before you know it, like, you're getting a singular point of view or very similar points of view. And that has been a challenge in our country really for the last decade, and, it is one that I think can't really be fixed until there's regulation around tech companies in the digital space. And right now, there's no incentive to do that.
Tonya Mosley:And so really, it comes down to us as individuals, really trying to be vigilant to make sure we don't fall prey to misinformation and educating those around us. You know, I didn't even realize my children my daughter is 17, and she's very well informed, but a lot of the news she gets is from TikTok. She knows, like, details about what's happening, but she knows just a little bit. And then she she knows what, you know, the TikTokers she follows have to say about it, what their opinions are about it. And in many ways, it's aggregated.
Tonya Mosley:You know, sometimes people are just relaying the headlines back. But it's a dangerous place to be because, you know, that's also where misinformation can flourish at the same time.
Rob Lee:Yes. And I I have some takes on that that I will share with you off mic. I think in recent events of where we're recording, I, you know, post election, I feel like, yeah, the, social media had a little and podcast had a little bit to do with some of that.
Tonya Mosley:There are big there are big podcasts that have large audiences, and their platform disseminates misinformation or skewed information or falls into conspiracy theories, and, it just fuels. It fuels your your world view, in a way that, you know, will have you believing things that aren't true.
Rob Lee:Yeah. We got it right there, actually. I I love that. We didn't have to do the thing afterwards. It's just right there, 100%.
Tonya Mosley:But it's scary. It's really scary, though, because what you realize is that, like, we all and and I will preface this to say that, like, I think that we all live in our own realities, but you realize when there's no common ground on truth, in fact, it's hard to understand where there can be common ground, like, I feel like that's the floor. If we both agree that you have on a purple sweater, then we can go from there. But if I see purple and you're like, no, this is brown, I mean, where are we gonna go?
Rob Lee:I I think when and you're right. I I think when we got to a point or where the point of not calling things lies or misinformation or alternative facts, it's like, let's let's not do that. Let's let's just use actual terminology. It's not makeup terminology. I don't believe in alternative facts.
Rob Lee:It's just like either this is this, you know, purple, or it's not you don't see it as purple, but don't call it something else, because then we're just playing a weird game where we're just in disagreement, and it's baked in, which fuels the algorithms.
Tonya Mosley:Okay. Rob, I have to know now, though. Were you against the use of that language from jump, or did you feel you know, initially, not calling a lie a lie came from this idea that we don't know the motivation of the person who is, saying the thing or the untruth that then turns out to be a lie. Like, a lie is almost like a moral indictment. Like, it's saying you are saying something untrue on purpose.
Rob Lee:I I think I was early on it because I'm a I'm a stickler at times for terminology. You know? It's just like, what is the term? Like, what is, like, what is this? Like, again, going back to food, I know it doesn't relate, but I'm a purist when it comes to certain things.
Rob Lee:If you put shrimp and grits in front of me, don't say it's an interpretation, but it's like these are culinary lies. I'm I'm that way about food. So when it comes to sort of facts, especially here, one of the motivations in in starting this podcast, I felt like people didn't have a real understanding or full representation of the story of what what Baltimore is and what the people in Baltimore do and what they're about. So I
Tonya Mosley:felt like my intent was to help
Rob Lee:illuminate folks and get past some of the new stuff that I'm like, this is not what I'm experiencing. I'm here currently.
Tonya Mosley:Mhmm. That's
Rob Lee:that's just my take on it.
Tonya Mosley:Yep. Yep. Yep.
Rob Lee:So I got a few more real questions. I call them real questions because the rapid fire questions are silly. I wanna go to, you touched on Fresh Air a moment ago. So could you please, share what that experience was like? Because, I mean, Fresh Air, you know, is what?
Rob Lee:Since 75? So, like, that is, like, a part of the the conversation and arts and issues. So if you will, could you share the experience for yourself?
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. Well, I first you know, I didn't grow up listening to NPR, but my mother did listen to, radio, to news talk radio. And so I grew up, like, being in the back seat of the car hearing the news that way. But as I got older, really, when I started my journalism career and I'd be in the news fan as a television reporter, we would have on NPR, and I would hear Fresh Air with Terry Gross. And it was my favorite program along with This American Life.
Tonya Mosley:I just thought these 2, shows really give me a slice of like Americana in a way that felt fresh, and new, and like slowed down, and intimate, because, you know, what we do, this auditory medium is so intimate, because you're connecting to a voice, you know? And so I loved it. I loved what Terry did, and I always thought it would be a dream job to work there. And I moved on and went about my career. I never thought it would be something that would become true for me.
Tonya Mosley:I joined public media in 2016, and I started off as an education reporter, and then I was filling in as a host for a show called Radio Boston in Boston, Massachusetts. And then I went to San Francisco, and I was a Silicon Valley bureau chief there, and I started hosting, their hour long, I would fill in their hour long, show that was similar to Fresh Air, where I'd be interviewing guests. And I really loved it. I like the art of conversation, and that show was live. So that really, like, it was trial by fire.
Tonya Mosley:You know, sometimes, do you ever, Rob, like, look at what you've done and realize, like, if it had gone the other way, you probably would be think you'd be in a whole different like, if I had started off being able to record interviews, I probably could never do a live interview for an hour. I would feel so tripped up by it. But because I didn't know anything, I went into it not knowing anything about this. I did it and I learned on the spot. And then I started hosting, the news program here and now, which is a co production with NPR and WBUR in Boston, and I did that during the pandemic, during, January 6th insurrection, the Trump years.
Tonya Mosley:That was quite a time. It showed me what I was made of because we were doing live radio constantly. There was news updates and breaking news constantly. And really to go back to your question about fact checking in real time, it takes a lot of hard work, and, it takes a lot of careful consideration when you are disseminating things out to the public, especially of great consequence, even if it's not a great consequence, but, you know, especially during that time. So that was a stressful time, but I feel really proud of the work that we did.
Tonya Mosley:And, I started filling in, like, doing special interviews for Fresh Air. I met a producer there who invited me to do that, and I did that for about 2 years, where every few months I would do an interview for Fresh Air. And when they had an opening, Terry wanted to Terry Gross, the host in 75, wanted to have a more permanent fixture on the show to give her a break to split up the interviews. She's been hosting the show for 50 years. I can't even imagine 5 days a week, 2 hour interviews every day, that is a a that's a workload that I even me right now, I don't think I don't know if I could handle it, and she did it for so long.
Tonya Mosley:She's like a superhero, and, so that's how it happened.
Rob Lee:Wow. That's, you know, again, going to the the the numbers, like, I'm we pat myself on the back with 800 interviews. I'm like, I
Tonya Mosley:No. That is that is exceptional. 800 interviews?
Rob Lee:Yeah. It's it's cool. But but I I think about it in terms of, like, a radio person, And so hearing those numbers, like, 50 years, like, you know, multiple hours a day, interviews every day, essentially, oh, that's, It does seem like we can only, like we we can count the people who do that on one hand,
Tonya Mosley:you know. I think there was, like, Tom Joyner back in the day, and, like, those people were machines. We you know, you should be very proud of yourself.
Rob Lee:Well, thank you. I I I you're right. And thank you for that. So I got I got to 2 more questions. I want to dove in on a real quick.
Rob Lee:This one is, is sort of more around like editing or sort of like just when you get notes, Right? Like, you know, it's it's a podcast or I'm doing the some an independent, so I do the, you know, doing the funding dance sometimes. That's what I like to call it. You know, it's like a rain dance, but it's just kind of like grants and applications. And, you know, I find, like, I'm driven by sort of what my vision is.
Rob Lee:Like, this is one of the reasons why you and I are talking. I'm so, you know, grateful that you said yes. And if other folks from a, maybe, certain funder's perspective were like, oh, well, why would you wanna talk to person? Or you should talk to these. Or you're a black podcaster, so you only should talk to these types of people.
Rob Lee:And I'm like, nah. I gotta follow sort of my vision and what feels true to me, what I'm curious about. But those notes are there. And when money is involved or when opportunities are involved, it can get really muddy. How do you stay true to your vision and in your voice within your work?
Rob Lee:Because, also, you're you're you're a podcaster as well as a host. So, you know, could you share some some thoughts on that?
Tonya Mosley:Yeah. I feel really lucky. 25 years into a career where I have the autonomy to be able to choose who I wanna interview now, and as far as my journalism and my podcasting, those are my podcasts, and so my podcasts are funded through foundations and grants too. And the foundations that I, get money from, I set out my vision very clearly to them, and, there is a clear separation, so they don't really have any say on the content per se. And so I make sure that right from the start, they know where I'm going with it so that I don't have any problems in that regard.
Tonya Mosley:But I do I do know that feeling early on in my career, where there are priorities of a news organization that I work for, and I'm going to do stories or interview people based on what those priorities are. But even within that, I can bring myself to that. And that that's why those reps were so important. I needed to do those things in order to understand my vision, you know. Sometimes that's really important, and I don't think, I say this because I work and I I mentor a lot of younger people who want to, from the moment they graduate college, or however old they are, they wanna be in where I'm sitting.
Tonya Mosley:And I think that, but see, the thing about you, Rob, is that you've done the reps already. Like, you're doing the reps. You are learning, and you are you have now come to a clear vision of who you are. But it took me some time of exploring and doing different types of stories, and talking to different people, and learning about things that maybe I like my own curiosity wouldn't lead me to, to really understand where my curiosity lies, if that makes sense. To understand where my point of view comes from.
Tonya Mosley:What makes Tonya Tonya? What makes a Tonya interview Tonya? What makes me interested in people? And so, I I always tell younger people don't skip over that. It might feel like it's not grunt work, but it just feels like it's not aligned with maybe what you will ultimately want to do to have full power and scope on your vision, but, that type of, experience is important.
Rob Lee:For a second, I thought you were gonna do a 3rd person thing. Like, you know, who does Tonya wanna talk to? I was like, wow, you're you're echoing my my former podcasting from high school. Wow. This is this is great.
Rob Lee:And, and thank you. Thank you for that. That's that's that's really good, and I think it is a good way to it's a backhanded. It is not not backhanded. It's a haphazard sort of transition into sort of the the final question here, the closeout.
Rob Lee:You you were kinda touching on it a little bit there. What would be a piece of advice you would share with the podcast or with the journalists, with storytellers that, you know, that's that's helped you, I guess, sort of paying it forward, like a piece of advice that you've gotten that you would impart to the listeners?
Tonya Mosley:That's a really good question. You know, when I was I remember I was a I started off as a producer in television before I, became a reporter, and and I wanted to be a reporter so bad. Like, back when I, back when I was doing that, like, we would send out resume tapes, VHS tapes, to get jobs. This was such a long time ago. It's like the nineties.
Tonya Mosley:And I had a mentor, Shawn Gables. She was a television news anchor in Detroit, and she was great. She was like all the things I wanted to be, and I would always call on her for advice. And she would say to me the thing that I am saying, the rep's thing. She was like, you just need more experience, Tonya.
Tonya Mosley:You have to be out there. You do have talent, but it's not gonna happen overnight for you. And what are you doing this? Where you're doing this, it's a journey. It's not a sprint.
Tonya Mosley:It is not I wouldn't trade any of my experience, because it's what led me to today, and it allows me to command a seat. I don't know if I would have been able to command the seat without the experiences that I had. And so I think being patient and understanding, but also not letting, you know, I meet a lot of young people that feel discouraged, and they say, well, like, what is the secret to not being discouraged? And I I found that, like, leaning into the work is what helped me. Not leaning into the particular job I want, or the status that I want to be in, but the literal work, being able to sit down and talk to someone about their story, researching a story, going out and uncovering facts and information, and things that people didn't know, that is what carries you through, and, allows you to really ultimately command the seat that you want to, as a storyteller.
Rob Lee:That is that's great. It's like a it's like a mic drop piece there. So, and it's and it's so true. Like, when I have those instances where I get a little discouraged or it's like, hey, I got a lot to do right here, and I find what I'm looking at sort of you know, at one point in this journey, I did, like, I think, 6 interviews in one day, and it was another instance. These are not the same time.
Rob Lee:And in another week, I had, like, 18 interviews. And Yeah. Have a day job, have all the other stuff. Right? And, you know, I used to just look at, like, alright, Friday, today is the day to write questions.
Rob Lee:Today is the day to, you know, finish off sort of your research. And at times, you know, after week after week of doing it, it would feel like, wow, this is a lot, and I have almost a chore part of it to do. But doing this part, you know, that makes that worthwhile, sort of the research, being able to have the interview, have the questions, and and get to know a person, and and then have the person kinda, like, share their their story with you and the pieces that they're, you know, down to share. That's the part that is so great, but it's sort of the work that has to go into that. And now that process is so much easier than it used to be because I know what I'm looking to do.
Rob Lee:I know who I am as a as a creative. I know what a Rob story is. I know what a Rob interview is. I know what Rob likes to do. I'm doing my 3rd person there.
Rob Lee:I see.
Tonya Mosley:I see. I understand. What is your motivation? What do you like what do you like about what you do?
Rob Lee:See, now you're interviewing me. I I like the opportunity to to connect with someone and to find that sort of commonality that it's going to sound like, you know, talking back to yourself, but sort of that humanity in a person. And that's why I structured the questions the way that I do. Like, there's a curiosity there that I want to satisfy. And selfishly, I like to talk to interesting people, you know, and make myself seem a little bit more interesting.
Rob Lee:So I'll reference you. I was like, yeah. I was talking to Tonya Mosley. Right? And she said that that that it'll make me seem like I'm interesting, but it's really just me echoing something that you said.
Rob Lee:But, yeah, it's, it's curiosity is the main thing.
Tonya Mosley:And that is I mean, that is when I was young, I I just also wanna tell you this before we, depart that I didn't realize it to a few till a few years ago, but one of my driving forces is also to paint a, a, a fuller picture of who we are as black people. When I grew up in Detroit, local television news was king. That's how we learned about ourselves and our communities. And within local television news, crime ruled it. If it bleeds, it leads.
Tonya Mosley:And there was so much crime and violence, and it was such a it was not a multi dimensional look at who we were. And yet in my communities, and my family, and my neighborhood, and my friends, and life in general, I was seeing a different picture. And as I grew up and started to experience the world as a black woman, I realized that the detriment of those images and that that type of storytelling had on communities, not only our communities, but communities outside of ours that are looking at this, and they don't know, they don't have a fuller picture of our humanity. So that has also been a driving force for me, is to give a fuller picture of who we are, of who everyone is, but really with an emphasis on who we are.
Rob Lee:It's it's here. It's it's the same thing here as as well, you know, if I'm if I'm being 100% honest with it, you know, sort of the timing, the, you know, Elijah Cummings and then Trump back in, what, 2019. And as you remember, some of the folks that I was interviewing, I started the podcast. We weren't kinda kinda up and rolling. We may have been 6 episodes in, And I was like, how dare you?
Rob Lee:You know, sort of my my thinking. And I was like, you're not talking about the streets. You're not talking about the sidewalks, the buildings. You're talking about the people that refuse. So I said, you know, the best way to disprove sort of this position is to have real interviews with the people from this, quote, unquote, rat infested city.
Rob Lee:And that was sort of the thinking that was there, and that was, you know, as a a creative mornings talk out there where I lead off with that. Like, that's the beginning of this whole thing and sort of what keeps igniting it and, you know, where we're at with that situation kind of coming back around. It gives me more of zeal and the gusto to kinda keep doing that and showing sort of the commonality or the the love I have for for this city and the people in it in these other places that show on that connection, whether it be Detroit, whether it be Philly, New Orleans, so on. These are places I will be going back to. But, Yeah.
Rob Lee:That's that's that's what it is. I was I was going for the bit, but I was like, let me be let me be honest here. I gotta get have the honesty here.
Tonya Mosley:Well, thank you for what you do. It's tremendous, and you're really good. So this was awesome. I had such a pleasure. Do you see yourself as an artist?
Rob Lee:I I struggle with it. I'm I'm somewhere in the middle. I think anthropology is close to to what it is. I think there's an artistic bent to it, but not not an artist. I guess that's the best way I can put it put it, might be a curator, you know, in some ways, but, not necessarily an artist.
Tonya Mosley:Yeah.
Rob Lee:But I I gotta ask you the rapid fire questions. We can, you know, we can't just
Tonya Mosley:Oh, this is oh, okay. I thought I okay. Here we go. Here we go.
Rob Lee:Thank you. Thank you. So these are real quick. These are real quick. I got 3 of them for you.
Rob Lee:Number 1. Oh, let me give you the context. So it's kinda like, look. Whatever the answer is, like, I said what I said. Don't don't overthink it.
Rob Lee:Because people are like, well, do I really like vanilla ice cream? Maybe a strawberry. So here's the first one. How do you take your coffee?
Tonya Mosley:Oh, cream and sweet and low. Yeah. I might have cancer later on, but I have to have 3 sweet and low, and I have to have the Carnation creamer. It's like that. Yeah.
Rob Lee:See, I like when people get real specific. Like, you know, you can know that that's a consideration right there. It's gotta be this specific thing.
Tonya Mosley:So much so I carry sweet and low in my bag, so when I'm traveling, because, you know, not every place has it.
Rob Lee:That's true. I'm just just black coffee. You know, just the Roblait, little little cinnamon in there as well as I do the antioxidants. Now this was I referenced this earlier in the pod. What are you snobbish about?
Rob Lee:You know, not nothing really crazy or what have you. Like I was saying, I'm a little snobbish about food. I'm very particular. Like, don't give me shrimp and grits, and you're like, there's no pork in this. I'm like, what are you doing?
Tonya Mosley:I am very snobbish around food as well.
Rob Lee:You get it.
Tonya Mosley:I'm also snobbish around, like, home and hearth, so anything that has to do with my home. I do, you know, my mother used to call me a poor little rich girl because she said, you know, I always really liked nice things, but we were poor. What's wrong with you, Tonya? But mostly, it's not that I like nice things to be showy. I like to feel comfortable in my home.
Tonya Mosley:Your home is where you spend the most of your time, you know. You want it to feel like a place you want to be. And so I take a lot of pride in making my home feel comfortable for me. And so I'm I'm sort of snobbish about that. And eating good food, like, I wanna make sure that we have good ingredients, that we're cooking.
Tonya Mosley:This is very important for my family.
Rob Lee:It's great. Super important. Here's What is your the charter greeting?
Tonya Mosley:Oh, so see, I don't say what up, though. You just said it like
Rob Lee:I used to say.
Tonya Mosley:Even though people do to me though, but, you know, I, what is my I don't have one, but I know that one. I'm just like, hello. Hey. How you doing? You know, I'm trying to watch.
Tonya Mosley:We'll get off and I'll be like, oh, yeah. That's what we say. But, yeah, I know what up though. That's like that's iconic Detroit. It's so cold in the d.
Tonya Mosley:We say that to be funny, you know, in the winter time. Because do you know you know that video and song, it's so cold in the d? No. Oh my gosh. I'm a send it to you.
Tonya Mosley:Okay.
Rob Lee:I I I would love that. I just say howdy to people. It just feels like I'm not from here and even though I'm here.
Tonya Mosley:Howdy?
Rob Lee:Yeah. Because, you know, some people it's it's a age thing. I'm I'm 39, and some of the younger folks, they'll say, yo. What's up, dummy? I'm like, I don't know what that means.
Rob Lee:But it's it's sort of a term of endearment. I was like, I don't use that player. I don't know who that is.
Tonya Mosley:No. That sounds like it. It's all okay.
Rob Lee:I'm like, well, you know, they're trying to fade. So that's kinda it. So there's 2 things I wanna do as we close out here. 1, I wanna thank you so, so very much for coming on to this podcast. This was a treat.
Rob Lee:This was a pleasure. And and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you anything you wanna say in these final moments, social media website always offer the shameless plug out there. But if you will, please, the floor is yours.
Tonya Mosley:Well, Rob, I really appreciate this conversation. You're so good at what you do, and you're so warm. And I love being able to talk about the craft of storytelling and journalism and just the art of podcasting too. And you just showed, your talent right here. And, you can follow me at tonya talks on Instagram.
Tonya Mosley:That's tonya and then talks, because I'm constantly talking. I'm also on threads and I'm no longer on Twitter. So, you know, those are my 2. Yeah. And you can also listen to me anytime on NPR's Fresh Air.
Tonya Mosley:You can also find my 2 podcasts, She Has A Name and Truth Be Told wherever you listen to podcasts.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Tonya Mosley for coming on to the podcast. And for Tonya Mosley, I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture, community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
