Rob Lee: Welcome back to The Truth in This Art, your source of conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter and I am your host Rob Lee. Today, I'm excited to run it back and reconnect with one of my favorite guests, a chef and co-owner of one of Baltimore's most beloved spots, the Corner Pantry, which is known for its thoughtful menu, standout pastries, and a commitment to local ingredients. Since our first conversation back in 2022, his restaurant has expanded and he's continued to serve the community with both in-house offerings and a thriving catering operation. So please welcome back to the program, Chef Neill Howell. Welcome back to the podcast.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, so obviously I am, well, maybe not obviously, but I'm the chef and owner. I own the Corner Pantry with my wife, Emily, so we run the business together. But my main day in, this changed a little bit since we expanded, but my main day in, day out is just driving the menu, I've seen the kitchen, touching the base in front of the house, and just making sure that all facets of the business are running. We were a catering company too, so we have that.
Rob Lee: And that's going to be one of the things that comes up later and like, you know, I don't want to under-seller. This is one of my favorite places, and I'm not just saying that because I'm here in front of you, you know, there's top objects all the way around, but this is one of my favorite places. Like, there's a running bit that is a testament to how good the food is here. We came here, me and my partner, we came here with one of her friends from out of town, and it's like, we choose which places we're going to take people into the degree of how much we want to impress them, right? So, one of her friends who is really high up there, really high up there, she's like, oh, this place is really nice, this place is great.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, it worked. So, we had like, I think it was a Saturday, and things like, we had like the breakfast and all of that stuff, I don't remember exactly, I always get the same thing. It's always bacon and biscuits for me. But she had, I think, something very similar, and she didn't finish like her bacon. It was some rando dude that was here, just sitting on the side, he was a patron, he was like, you want to finish that bacon? And she was like, probably not, he was like, I'm going to eat that.
So, she tossed it? Oh, wow. So, that's how, just making connections, making friendship through the food. And in that vein, you know, touching on sort of, you know, I think it's connection.
It's a odd version of connection. But what do you like about cooking? What do you enjoy about cooking? It's been a big part of your life for a very long time.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I started working in Kitchener 14, and my mom and dad were like, I'm 47 now, so my mom and dad were like, you got to get a job. So, on the weekends, I would start washing dishes, and, you know, I struggled a lot of school academically, so as soon as I walked in, I don't know why, but it just works in my brain, like a kitchen just works. Like, the hustle, the bustle, the camaraderie of, you know, me with the cooks, and there's no better feeling for me than when you can create, you create a dish or you have a really busy service, and you can, you know, we have an open kitchen so you can see out into the dining room, and you can see people that are happy, and, you know, fortunately, we get a lot of great feedback about what we're doing, so, you know, that just makes you happy. So, the camaraderie side of it was what really got me into the kitchen in the beginning, but as I said, like, my, I didn't have many options from leaving school, so it was like, you know, I could be a plumber or just go into this trade, and I was already working there anyway, and it's just a very rewarding industry, like it is. It's extremely hard work, obviously, but I can't compare it to anything else, I've never done anything else, but it's very, very rewarding, and we just get to be creative, and I just like being busy, you know, I just like, I like touching things with my hands, I like, I couldn't be sitting down at a desk, so just that side of it really is, it's cool, and it's just inspiring when you go to the places, and nowadays there's so much food out on the internet and Instagram, and it's just really cool to see how food has evolved over the years.
Rob Lee: Yeah, you know, it's a, and it's good to find those things that kind of make sense, I mean, like, 147, sir.
Chef Neill Howell: Good on you, good on you. I mean, I turned 40 this year, so I'm like, I'm hanging off a deer like my knees hurt. No, but I think, you know, as a person that enjoys food and over the last few years really changing, didn't have a bad relationship with food, you know, but changing like how I view it and what it looks like, and,
Rob Lee: you know, making certain decisions in a different way, and I realize the sort of familial, the camaraderie, the connection that happens, and it's like, I try to leave space for those things, like, when I say, oh, I gotta, I can't eat this, I gotta eat in this way, and it's like, the food's not the point here, the things that go along with it.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, I totally agree, like, and, you know, I definitely am someone that has bad relationship with food over the years, you know, like, I just like to eat my feelings, I suppose, so, you know, yeah, no, I think, look, a successful restaurant is not just about the food, like, and it's very nice to hear that you enjoy everything here, because we are extremely, I am definitely extremely hard on myself and like the food we're eating, the food's not good enough, I need food better, and so that's nice to hear, but, you know, we've been here for 11 years, and again, I think it's not just down the food, it's down at the front of the house, it's down to ambience at a restaurant, I think that this area was crying out for what we were doing at the time, so we came in at the right time, and again, I don't, I never wanted to have a big restaurant, we started very small when we were young, and we wanted to start small, one, because the budget we had was nothing, but two, you know, I wanted to be intimate, and I wanted to be something that just overwhelmed us completely at the beginning, it overwhelmed us, but it didn't overwhelm us with the food and the menu and what we were putting out, you know, we weren't doing a huge amount of covers in the beginning, so we just started slowly and built up, but it's about ambience, and we're big into making sure everything looks nice, which it does, it costs a lot of money to do that, but yeah, it's so many different facets of a restaurant that from when you walk in the door, do you feel that energy, the hustle, bustle up there, you do, when the corner of the house you walk in, it's always fairly busy, so it's down, I think the people waiting in line for so long, but you know, we can do our best to get the food out as quickly as possible, I think there's just, there's a lot of space to it, it's something to that, you walk in, there's a people around, it makes you want to sit down, and then when you get the food, hopefully it's where you want it to be.
Rob Lee: Absolutely, it's always a, I do it, especially now, and you know, there are some places that I have history with, and again, it's sort of like outside of, you know, surely the food, that's a pre-rec for me in many regards, right, and it's like, if I'm going to share this, I'm going to go there, and it's just an entry point I'm sharing it with family, I'm sharing it with friends, and sort of, this is experiential, and you know, it's always sort of this report card, because I'm a, like, an informed customer, and sort of having taste, and having that reputation, and being a taste guy is my friend's calling, which is, oh, you're a culture guy, you're a taste guy, and you know, always really prodding myself on that, and just knowing where the spots are at, knowing where the places are at, and this is, like I said earlier, this is always towards the top of the list, so, you know, shifting a little bit, you know, you guys expanded since the last time we talked, you mentioned it a little bit there, so it was, you said 9,000?
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, 9, yeah, not just over 9, I think, yeah.
Rob Lee: So, just over 9,000 square feet, so talk a bit about the decision that went into that expansion, and, like, what are some of the things that have changed sort of behind the scenes, because visually, I love that sort of back, like, oh, I can look at what's happening back here, and it maintains that as far as the way things are set up, I'm like paying a little bit too much attention of what's going on back there, what can I feel for you guys, how are you doing this?
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, we have expanded, and it's not as much as 9,000, I got that off there, my brain is like, you know, that's why I stay in the kitchen, I think it's closer to 6, I think, around that, about that.
About double though? Yeah, yeah, it is, and, you know, we probably sort of expanded during COVID, and we probably should have, the space was available then, but we just were like so nervous about what was going on, and we didn't take the space over, we knew we needed room, but, again, we just built slowly over a period of time, and it didn't, that hasn't kind of hit us financially, we were able to do that, but then this time, you know, we needed more kitchen space, we needed more dining room space, we also wanted, as I said, a catering company, so we also wanted a dining room that we could sell for events, we could, you know, host more cooking classes, we could do some sample clubs, which, you know, we're working on right now, and just trying to come up with a way to generate more revenue, and also keep our staff busy, we've got a lot of staff that are very creative, but there's only so much you can do, so giving them more outlets to be creative is what we were trying to achieve, but it was mainly just for, again, you know, we needed better cooking equipment, we needed more space, so we've done that, so now we have, you know, we have a brilliant, really beautiful cooking suite in the kitchen, we have top-of-the-line equipment from the ovens, everything else, so like everything's high-end, and you know, it has to do that, but we understand, my men and my wife understand what needs to happen to make this place better than it was, and also, you know, as I said, the cavern is a huge piece for us, there's only so many egg sandwiches you can sell, you know, and salads, so we don't have a liquor license here, so like we have to sell a lot of food to make money, so it really is, and everyone always walks in, oh, you're so busy, thinking I'm like, you know, some millionaire, I'm really not, we do okay, but like it really does take a lot of manipulation of like, you know, what's coming in the door, and how can we get on the menu, a good price point for us to make money, and that's where a cavern is a huge, huge help for us.
Rob Lee: That makes sense, and I know I have a catering question that comes up a bit later, because I believe you were at sort of one of my other haunts.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Hawkins, yeah. Isn't that Neil? Looking over the ledge? Yeah. So in terms of just over the years, like consideration around the menu, right, and I'm always curious, and I remember asking, I think a different chef this, like one of the things where, do you have something that like begrudgingly, it's like, I'm keeping this on there, I don't care if anyone likes this, I like it. On the menu? Yeah, I mean we, yeah, so we, so the menu has definitely changed for expanded, because we used to have, we used to do breakfast from 7 to 11, and then we switched to a lunch menu. And in our old kitchen, the place was so small, it was actually becoming hindering us in service to keep switching over. So we switched to an all day menu now, which is working out great.
But there are things like, you know, on the sandwiches, like I smoke turkey, it's never come off. Our coronation chicken's always been on. The chicken fried rice has been on the menu, so from day one, our quinoa bowls always been on there. The farm place has become a major staple now, it's been on for a few years, which, you know, but we, we really wanted to, with this menu, kind of really double down and do our best to be doing more with like local farms, which we've always had that, but trying to do more of that. So, you know, using as much local fish as we can, coming from where the guy that drives the Cape May, which is great, you know, trying to use as much local meat as we can, and using the amazing farms that we have around here that, you know, just the produce around here is really amazing. And we're just trying to get more of that on to the menu. So, yeah, we have our staples, but the sandwiches is definitely a section we don't really mess around with too much. But then we have our chef plates now, which we have, and that's a lot of rotating dishes.
We always try to have a meat dish on there, always try to have a fish dish, a pasta, and again, all that stuff we're making in-house, you know, so if we have a pasta dish on, we make the pasta ourselves. And the soups we rotate, they're always on, but they do rotate. And the salads, again, we've always had our farm salad on, we've always had our falafel salad. And then we'll try and rotate the seasonal salad to right now, to spharagus. And then we'll move into, you know, snap peas and peaches and whatever, you know, so we're just trying to, really trying to follow the seasons, which that's actually a lot of work, which I don't know whether people understand that, you know, because if you're getting in, you're paying, for example, radishes, you know, which are amazing, but you've got to somehow come away with using the leaves too, so you don't want to just throw that in the trash because you lose the money. So there's just all these little things we're trying to do just to keep the menu interesting. We have a ton of regular customers that come back like yourself. So I'm just trying to keep the menu interesting.
And I think my wife has always said to each other, she has that saying, a vole will die. And this is, you know, there is this area, hasn't had too many restaurants in the last few years, but that's going to change. I know there's some stuff going on at the street, maybe it's going to be happening and there's some restaurants that have come and go around here, but we're always just trying to keep ourselves relevant. And just because we've been over 11 years doesn't mean that we're only one bad service away from things changing.
Rob Lee: Yeah. And that actually makes me a little sad. But it is like, I like New Orleans. I go to New Orleans like yearly and just looking over the last few weeks, just places that have been there like 20 years, we're wrapping up or sunset, and they got like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And it's like, I wish I visited this the last time I was there. I was there from Mardi Gras this year. So definitely it's a consideration and, you know, sort of the creativity thing you were touching on earlier as far as having like this really amazing like staff and amazing creative folks here.
Talk a bit about what that experimentation and I think creativity looks like when developing and being really agile with how you're losing, well, how you're using maybe this fresh produce and it comes to mind because, you know, as I'm going there and I'm every week, I'm buying stuff every week, I'm going there. I'm like, buries are so expensive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really expensive now. Yeah.
A bunch of buries in the morning. I was like, all right, I can't waste these. One is bad.
All of them are bad. This is what we're doing. Yeah. So, you know, being creative with how I'm going to utilize them because I don't want to take that loss. That's the small scale that I'm at. Obviously, you know, one individual. So talk a bit about the creativity that goes into the menu and sort of how are you using this?
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah. So, you know, again, we use the first kind of poor call is, okay, what season available right now? So, you know, we always use them always in touch with our farms that we're using. We get product less arriving all the time. So that's the first poor call. What's in season right now? And then from there, we will, you know, the team will just get creative, come up like this and we'll bounce things off of each other. Every Wednesday, we have a manager meeting down here at this table. So we will go over the came for the following week. We touch base about things that, you know, any issues we need to talk about as a team, things we need to address, but you also bring food down here that we're trying out R &D for the next week. So as I said to you, like on the chef's plates, you know, and we have another section called bits and bobs. So we try and rotate that stuff a lot. So, you know, we'll bring, okay, we'll run out. We're running these ramp, dump, ramp dumplings, which are put on the menu, which has been selling really well.
But obviously, we don't have more ramps. You know, we took the bombs, we pick it up and we took the tops, we made it pure A. So that was great for us as a way that we can utilize the puree to make a dough. So then you can also get that in the freezer so it holds, you know, so you're not wasting that.
So just things like that. And we just then we'll bring that dish down to down here and we'll taste it and, you know, it needs a bit of this there. So we really do try to promote everyone being creative. But it all starts with just ingredients like our food is very simple.
We're not trying to do anything crazy here, you know, if it's a piece of fish, you want to just really nice roast a piece of fish or have we cooking it, cooking it for the best of our ability with, you know, an amazing local, you know, and or whatever is in season at that moment. So it's just a lot of conversation. There's a lot of conversation that goes on and a lot of which, you know, we're getting better at. We didn't used to be as efficient as this. But, you know, with us expanding, we've had to add more staff. And, you know, we in the kitchen side to it's got to a point where like, you know, years ago, I could probably do a lot of stuff on my own with with two busy now.
So with Andrew, who's always ex-su, who's come in, it was at Magdalena is doing a great job. And so me and him bounce a lot of ideas off each other and, you know, at least sincere and a pastry, very talented pastry team. So they're always coming ideas and it just starts with the ingredients first and then then we go for an hour.
And, you know, like we have a strawberry toast on right now. Okay, that's about a run out. So what are we going to do next?
But, you know, we're going to we start R &D and stuff now. Okay, well, you know, snap peas are becoming a soup. Peaches becoming a soup. So we'll buy some of some of that ingredients in, you know, just to try it. Out the dish and work on it. So at least we know, okay, when those things come in, we can run that dish or tomatoes are about to come in. So before we get to May as a season, we'll, you know, buy some and start playing around. And that's just kind of how we how we work it here.
Rob Lee: Having that simple approach and not being like fussy and being very done very well, obviously, and really letting the ingredients like saying and do their thing.
Chef Neill Howell: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And if there's anything we can't get any sort of trims and everything we don't use, we'll turn that to a veg stock. So, you know, there's nothing, you know, for us, it would be very, it would be very silly on our side to use all these local farms, get these amazing ingredients. These farmers have taken, you know, all the time to grow this great product and we're just, you know, not doing them justice. So we need to use up every part so then we can obviously have food costs, but then also, you know, just make sure that we're using ingredients in the correct way. But yeah, it's been, it's taken a long, it does take a long time to get there.
First time we weren't using local farms. You know, that was something I always wanted to do. And then, you know, you have to build relationships, you know, I've, you know, moved from New York to here. So I didn't know any of those, you know, any farmers. So it just, you know, start to come in. I know this farm over here is great blah blah. So, you know, just building relationships and that's another thing I really, really enjoy.
Rob Lee: Yeah, the building relationship piece is important. I think, you know, as I, when I reached out to you for coming back on, that's, that's one of the things. It's like, I think about sort of the reputation is like, folks are aware of what I've been doing and doing this series. And as people remind us, like, you've talked to everyone. I say, I have to do more people or I can just talk to them again.
Right. And I was very curious about, and especially when folks have sort of, you know, like changes and updates and just new things that you're doing. I was just curious about sort of attrition and, you know, and doing this podcast for the now six years, it'll be six years in July that the first episode launched. A lot can change in a year, two years. And even thinking about it, a lot of those interviews that I did were 2019 and during 2020. So folks perspective on their work and on how they do their stuff and their relationships, all of that stuff has maybe changed considerably. So being able to continue the conversation and sort of add that extra layer of depth.
Hopefully I've gotten better over the last hundred or so episodes, right? Yeah. Oh, let me ask a more informed question. Let me go a little bit deeper and really maintain those relationships.
Chef Neill Howell: I think saying it is, I'm sure you look back at your work and I know I do have dishes I put on. I'll go and I'll be like, I can't believe I put that on the menu. Or like you say, you know, like, and that's another question we ask ourselves a lot here.
All right. The smoke turkey sounds being on the menu forever. But is there a way we can make it better? At first we weren't, you know, we were buying in turkey that could have been better. But then we eventually said, OK, let's get in.
That's Brian it. Then we inject it every day for a week. And we sue via that we smoke it in house. So it's just an evolved, evolvement, if that's even a word.
Rob Lee: We'll make it work. Avolvement of food and what we've been doing here. And, you know, like you said, we were talking before the podcast. You were saying, you know, you want to you wouldn't record something if it wasn't, you know, up to par. It's the same for us here.
Like, and I think anyone who's committed to producing something good, it could be anything, whatever you do for a living, if you're not trying to do the best you can, then why bother? It's actual. So we touch on a little bit earlier.
I want to go into some of the catering stuff a bit. So, you know, I touched. So we saw each other, you know, from different distances. I was looking down if I normally do. I normally look down on people. But looking down, I saw you say, oh, hey, a friendly.
We had a friendly here. And, and I was thinking, oh, it's a, it's a catering situation. This makes sense.
And, or at least I sort of suss that out. So I want to talk a bit about the catering component. Like how does that operation work, especially with sort of the new set up, the new, the new digs here? And what makes a successful, like catered event? Like what are you like looking for? Obviously sort of money and sort of how people, you know, receive it. But talk a bit about that. Yes.
Chef Neill Howell: So yeah, we've always done, we've always done catering before we even opened the cafe. I mean, Emily will be doing a little bit of catering as our, our house for you. You know, we thought about doing the cafe. So yeah, it's a big part of our business, you know, that's definitely where we can, we can, we generate a lot of revenue. We have David, who's sitting over there in charge of our, he's the director of, of catering.
He's been with us for a few months now. And, you know, we need, it's a, it's a beast, catering is a beast. I mean, whether you're doing an event offsite for 20 people, whether it's 500, it's the same amount of work. There's a lot that goes into it from, you know, packing the van to moving things around to, you know, getting the staff. We have Dan upstairs, who kind of, who is in charge of our catering department with me overseeing it. We do anything from sandwich drop-off to that night at Hopkins.
I think it was about, I think it was, I got, you know, 200 people, 250, sorry. You know, to dinners, the people's houses. So we go across the ball with it, but it's a great way to generate revenue. It's a great way for us to utilize everything we have upstairs. And it's just a, it's a huge part of our business. I think it right now is about 30% of our business is catering. And, you know, trying to, you know, having people at Hopkins as clients has been amazing. And, you know, we do anything from, like I said, sandwiched class to, you know, weddings to, you know, dinners, people's houses. The staff is all involved upstairs. We make, again, something we make everything in-house as much as possible. And yeah, it's just been something we've just built over the years.
Rob Lee: Yeah, it's, you know, I would want to say maybe, I think the last two years, it was funny. I slowly parsed it out, right? Like, I'm on the site, so I'm going to my people. It's like, it's you and this Chris.
It's you and this Chris. I'm going to the site. I'm getting these, like, my gift cards. It's like, I'm passing them off to people. And they're like, so what's the quarter past? I say, oh, oh, you need to be, be depth and be familiar.
Chef Neill Howell: There's so few students doing nothing about us. It's a fun, bizarre.
Rob Lee: Yeah, I send people over here and it's like, so what do you get? I was like, let me sit down for a minute. Let me get the rest of the rundown. And so in those opportunities of having any level of influence, because when I saw you, I was like, did he finally listen to me? Because I was trying to get our holiday party. That's what I was looking at doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chef Neill Howell: One of the reasons we expanded is we're trying to really utilize our space. We're empty in the evening time, so we have this beautiful space and we can host up to around about 50 to 60 people comfortable. We're working on a supper club idea and I think we're trying to do one in July, which we're trying to do maybe out in the parking lot, be inside, outside. We have our patio's beautiful, so right now we wanted to do some grilling out there and sell tickets and maybe have a raw bar and some music. We've never done that before, so just trying to do some new, fun, interesting ideas for our customers.
Everyone's always like, oh, we've done wine dinners many times and they set out very quickly, so we're just trying to come up with new ideas to keep us relevant and to keep our staff busy and excited.
Rob Lee: That's important. That's important. You kind of got my ears perking up. I need to make sure I have some availability in the live. Susie, I want to hear a little bit about, and also for the listeners, this podcast selfishly is for me. It's for me to get behind the scenes, but also for the listeners to get a better sense of on those really busy days. Because what goes into that? What does that look like? What does the timing look like as far as like, I'm here at 2 AM? What does that look like to really pull off? Because you guys do it very well. Those really, really busy days, this is controlled, not chaos, but it's controlled.
Chef Neill Howell: It's all here. It feels like controlled chaos. That's a great question, Sum. We were actually talking about this morning because we're busy most days of Saturdays, definitely. I think from the beginning of the year, we've kind of seen our business, the way service runs a little different. People seem to be spending as much money as they were. Maybe it was like this time last year. Don't know what reason that is, but we've now gotten to a place where we'll be, service goes to be steady and then all of a sudden we're just getting completely destroyed, especially on Saturday and even yesterday, we were extremely busy for like a two hour period.
So we're just trying to figure out how to, that's the hardest part. We are a quick service place. We have online, we have sit down, you can come in and order to go.
So we have a lot of different ways for people to order and we need to figure out how we spend all this time on making these amazing dishes. How do we still keep that quality being that busy in that small period of time? Because we don't want to get into a place where people are, they're weighing in line, they're not getting what they expect when they sit down. So that's the hardest part for us is managing that. But again, it comes down to communication, making sure that everybody knows their roles when we get busy, knowing what they should be doing. The front house, touching tables, really trying to be engaging with the customers. So that we really try and make sure that customers are staffed and doing that. Because we're a small family on business.
So I think one reason that myself and Chris, as far as being successful is because like they're heavily involved in the business day in, day out. And I think people really like that. Like people want to see, oh, you own the place and you're here working. Like I think that's something that's maybe lost a little bit over the years in restaurants.
I mean, you see so many restaurants where people, they have this romantic idea that they can, you know, I've never worked in a restaurant before. I mean, I've won up a year later, it was closed, which is terrible. You know, it's horrible all around. So we're really just trying to make sure that we keep everybody.
Rob Lee: It's akin to, it's a bit, but it's akin to when someone's like, man, I got some thoughts. I'm going to start a podcast. I'll say, are you sure? Are you sure you want to do that?
Or even the more real life version of it, you know, this is media, this is fun. But, you know, it's entrepreneurship. You know, a lot of times, you know, walking in that business will like fail.
It will wrap up, especially if there's a degree of stubbornness. And as you were touching on earlier, in multiple instances of being able to adapt, being able to address, being agile, and because it's like being a shark in a sense of, you got to keep moving, you got to figure out how to do it. But having those sort of, I guess that North Star, sort of like how we go about what we do, standard is key, sort of really good ingredients, communication, these different elements. Yeah. Yeah. You are.
Chef Neill Howell: It's a great thing about this industry is if you make a mistake, you're to come back the next day and adjust and try and make it better, which is something, you know, I really do love about this industry. You're only as good as you last saw this. You've got to make sure that you really are on top of everything. But, you know, take the team and do that, you know. Me and Andy can't do all of this. You know, it's just, we started very small. Now we have, I think we have over 25 employees. So it's really, it's just every single day, just coming in, doing the best you can.
Any issues the other day before trying to make sure that you stamp those out so they don't affect the next day. And it's just hard work and passion and commitment. That's all it is. You know, it's really all it is.
It's the same as your podcast. Like, you know, you got to be passionate about it. You got to be committed to it. And you can't ever really tell your off the ball. Why don't you start doing that? It just, that's when things start going wrong.
Rob Lee: And that's a nice story into sort of this next and kind of final real question. But I definitely want to touch on this and share this with the person. Like you and Chris, I consider my chef friends. Like it's, and this is why there's that, you know, obviously you guys are really good with your democaine on the podcast multiple times at this point.
But it's sort of this awareness. Like I remember I came over here, I think for my birthday, you just popped. It was like, I'm birthday. And I was like, oh, wow, you remember my, and I've shared the story before where Chris did a friggin menu for my birthday. And I was like, I don't like you.
You don't do nice things for me. Yeah. And that's the main thing. Yeah. And I recognize that stuff. And I appreciate that stuff.
And there are other places that, you know, are very popular. And it's like, it's fine. It's great. But it's sort of the same barometer.
I try to use the same barometer across. It's like, I don't have a connection with maybe those places, but let me give it a shot. And it's like, now the love isn't there. The attention isn't there. And that connection might not be there. But the connection is sort of the third thing. I'm looking for that love.
I'm looking for that. Is this person really in this? Or is it like almost a mercenary sort of vibe? Like you're coming in, it's like, this is those, right? It's like, I see it in your menu. I see it in your menu.
Chef Neill Howell: Well, you know, I was out the other night. And someone said to me, you know, I love coming to your place. And, you know, the girl behind the register before I even got up to there, she's already got my coffee in the car playing for me. It's just, you know, that's, we're lucky that we have a very consistent staff. We've had over the years. You know, I think that's down to a lot of things. Like we're a daytime place, we're closed on Sundays, you know, and people like that. So we're, it's good way for us to keep our staff. And then also by having regular staff, then obviously they, you know, have really good chemistry with their customers.
And that's what you're looking for, right? Well, people don't remember your name, remember what your order is, especially becoming Moll Time Today. And yeah, the other bonuses you get, good food.
Rob Lee: Yeah, and it's funny, like my partner and I, we go to different places. We had this, we had this project. I had like my, I always have a notepad with me. And I had like different grades for places we go to regularly. And I was like, I'm great at all coffee, great at all ambience, sort of.
Who is the client? I was like, yeah, you go in there like, hmm, I don't know, I'm going to stay here today. And it's usually, we started purely with coffee shops. And it's now like sort of baked in with sort of our decisions of like, we might go to a place because food is great. It's sort of, we want to see our friends there and so on and support folks business. But also it's like the staying out of place and having the meals different than getting the food and moving on. I think some, as you may have been alluding to, don't really get that. You know, that, no, having people in your place is a sign of health, I think.
Chef Neill Howell: Oh, 100%. Nobody wants to walk into an empty restaurant. And, you know, I think it's just like different factors that go into that. I mean, we're lucky, we picked a great area. We picked a good location. We have, you know, there's just a lot of traffic around us, people going by.
So we get a lot of walk-in customers. And yeah, we were just, we, there is some luck to go into a restaurant too. I think just picking the right area was great.
Rob Lee: And yeah, I mean, this just area timing and sort of just, you have those, you have those really strong like hallmarks like this is sort of how we go about our business and how we do our thing. But sort of those other elements that at times are out of our control. It's like, we made the right decision at the right time. What's the right evil?
It's the perfect storm. It's still hard work. Yeah. But the perfect storm. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah. And so this is sort of the last question, last real question, you know, we mentioned earlier, not to, you know, keep your eye on the ball, right? So you have a less athletic background, you know, you're an athlete. I've seen some, that's a running, that's a bike, and I've seen a few different things.
Yeah. So how does that mindset like show up in the kitchen? I know that I've gone into this weightlifting regimen and all of this different stuff. It shows up in how I perceive what I'm doing, how I look at what I'm doing. Like sometimes it's like, all right, that interview was good or I love that one, but they're all reps. That's the way I start to look at them. Oh, yeah.
Chef Neill Howell: I mean, I think it just starts off with being self-aware and looking at yourself internally and how you can make situations better. I think my athletic background, I appreciate you saying that, that's still good. But, you know, I play soccer when I was a kid for a number of years, but then once I found beer, I definitely stopped that pretty quick. And hence why I now haven't drunk for 11 years. So, you know, I do love keeping fit in this, I think any stress environment, you need something else that's going to take your mind of what you're doing.
Yeah. So for me, you know, when I first opened up this business, I was getting super stressed out. And I was like, I need to just need a goal. So a friend of mine said, oh, you ever done a traffic line before? And I was like, no, what's that? I ended up, you know, stupid me.
Like just ended up doing an Ironman, which I started off like a sprint and ended up just being an Ironman. And that was my goal. But again, it's just a goal-driven thing. So I like to set myself a goal and I like to reach it because I've noticed over the years it's the only way cooking works.
I tell my kids all the time, you start the bomb, you work your way up, and you just start to notice how good you're getting. So in the kitchen at first, I had terrible knife skills. And after a few weeks, you start getting great knife skills because you stay with these, you stay consistent. And that is what you end up becoming good at something. You come better with repetition and work ethic and just being, you know, and just trying to get better on a daily basis. That's all sport is. I mean, just, you know, my son wants to be like the best lacrosse player out there, but it's like, you've got to put in the work and you have to get there.
He's not just going to happen. Yeah. You know, so just the sport side of it is just one takes my mind off things. But it's also just that, again, it's just that driven goal of like, I just want to get better at this.
Rob Lee: Yeah, it's, you know, like I do the goofy meal prep during a week. No, I actually enjoy it. And I kind of figure out like what I'm going to do. It's a lot of chicken.
Let's just put it this way. It's a lot of chicken. You know, I get to enjoy myself in a weekend. So like I said, I come here and a lot of chicken and sort of, you know, bringing things in and having, having that goal of like, how am I going to do this? How am I going to go about this? What am I curious about? What am I interested in? What's coming out? Because, you know, I like to never really gravitated towards baking because baking is science to me.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, that's why I've carried the pommel. That's why I like baking. You know, I appreciate the pommel because I'm just like, no, I can't do this.
Rob Lee: But when it comes to the, like cooking, that's the improvisational nature of it at times. It's like, oh, I can just go full free jazz with this. And like, what am I aiming for?
What is the desire there? And then taking into account, as I, you know, it was alluding to earlier, like what's in season and trying to like figure that stuff out. And it's like, I know that I'm going to have certain staples that are part of it that they service the base of what I'm having.
And I'm not going to have that agree in the two weeks and then so on. And I'm thinking about that in the same way when I go into the gym 40 now. So I'm like, I can't just be throwing weight around. So I'm like, I'm going to be sore the next day and I'm not going to be able to do this the next day. So really thinking about that and being considerate of what's there and what's available.
Sometimes the decisions are based in cost and sort of availability. Like, huh, I went to this store. Hmm, they'll have the, I don't have the buries I like or I'm going to go here because they have some exotic stuff. Yeah. I spent a fair amount of time in like the international sections. Like Chinese mustard. I do make a thing with that for a couple of weeks ago as a Memorial Day. And this is sort of the stage of where I'm at.
I had dual requests. It's like, oh, so Rob is barbecuing, right? I was like, oh, no, don't let it get out there.
I don't want people coming over. Yeah. But then I kind of like it because I take that pride at it.
I'm doing it. And it's just, you know, Frank's and steak and things of that nature. But, you know, my partner, she's a pescetarian. So it's like the special fish dish. And I cared about the fish more than anything else. I was like, I got some cod here. I got this sort of like ginger paste I'm going to use. And I'm like playing with it.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah. That right there is like the beauty of cooking. You know, I love, we love going upstairs and she's like, okay, first of all, we come up with specials. All right.
What we got knocked around and we got to use up first and get creative with that. And I thought, like, it's the same with the working out. It's just like, and it's the same feeling as like a busy service like that. When you work out and even if you don't want to go, you always feel better after that.
And when we do a great service, a feeling of like accomplishing something is what I like. You know, that feeling of like, I, you know, I didn't want to do that at the gym. I'm finished. I'm going to go and enjoy my day. You know, because if I don't do it, I have to work out in the morning because I don't, I have to, but if I don't work out in the morning, I will literally talk shit to myself.
All day long. I didn't go to the gym or I didn't go and ride my bike. I'd be like, oh, you're lazy. You know, and just that negative self talk starts coming in and it's the same as a restaurant. If I didn't give 100% each day at this restaurant, I would literally leave and be just so annoyed at myself because it gives me purpose. You know, it gives me, I need, like I said, I need a goal.
I need something to be driven towards. And we didn't start this business just because we were, we started this business because we saw a dip in the market where as there wasn't too many healthy locally cooked restaurants here where, you know, people, there wasn't too many restaurants out here. We get a nice healthy salad, you know, or a nice home cooked meal. So that's what we wanted to do. We first opened and, you know, 11 years later we're still busy and it's great. But we also know that we've got to stay relevant. So, yeah.
Rob Lee: That's it for the real questions. Yeah, cool. So now it's time to all the goodwill that we just established. That's all of that away. Yeah. It's kind of about depth and insight. Got some rapid fire questions and so I tell folks all the time, you don't want to overthink these, whatever's the first thing that pops in your mind. You don't overthink, you know.
See, it's rare that I'm on the other side. So I can imagine listening to someone tell me, don't overthink. That's like, oh, I do. That's why, yeah, I have everything. But I got three of them for you.
Okay. So one of the things, again, selfishly. One of the things that I always make sure that I get, and you know, you're aware of this, it's always like a chocolate chip cookie. Yeah. My go-to. So what are hallmarks of a strong chocolate chip cookie? This is the echoing of me asking the A question previously.
Chef Neill Howell: It's got to be good chocolate and it's got to be bigger sized piece of chocolate. No, no, it's like chocolate chip crap. No, none of that. It's got to be big pieces of chocolate. That's what makes us different. We just said, everyone's all this chocolate and there it is, but they're just a nice big piece of chocolate. I cannot stand small little chocolate chips in a cookie.
Rob Lee: That's really going to be fine when my partner hears this, because she's like, I don't know if I like this chocolate-chocolate-chocolate business, but then she's been in a running war with several places. She's like, what are these fake desserts? This is why we come over here and literally, we don't care about money, right? We'll come over and say, all right, so we get in like our $45 pastry box, we'll call a cashier.
Chef Neill Howell: Literally, what is it? My son thinks there's too much chocolate in our cookies. I mean, he's 11, but I'm just like, what? He's not too much chocolate. What are you talking about?
Rob Lee: I think they're fine. I think they're great, actually. I almost want to say, what are they, malt teasers? What are we doing?
Chef Neill Howell: Well, yeah, again, in our cookies, we use a really good quality dark chocolate.
Rob Lee: This is just sort of overall, and maybe I can add a parameter to this question within the last year. So this is outside of where we're at, any place you visited. What's been your can't miss dish? Like, you know that you're going to a place, you know, like, I've got to try that. For instance, I was at another one of my favorites recently. I was at Cookhouse recently.
I haven't been, I've got to go. They had some dish. I think it was a crab, and it had croissant, and it was like, what is this? And I've read it, I was like, I'm absolutely having that. So when there's a place, either a new place that you want to check out, and you see something, what is the can't miss dish for you? Like, really something that's hot.
Chef Neill Howell: God, you know, I don't want to be a chef that doesn't, I haven't been out too much, right? One of my favorite restaurants is the Amakasina. I love it, because I just love it. It's very different. It's got really bold flavors. They've had this dumpling on the menu.
I don't remember still on there now, but it's, I don't remember what the main ingredient is, but it's just really amazing, dumpling, and it has like this smoked sort of sauce with it, which is amazing. Yeah, apart from now, like I love pizza. You did it. I love pizza. So there's a restaurant, it's called Balthog, you've been there one, it's on York Road. I know, but yeah. Yeah, they're just cheese pizza, just, it's amazing.
There's a sourdough crust, that's really good. But apart from now, I mean, yeah, I'm just, right now we're in the depths of working, and then our kids play sports. So at night time, I'm driving here, they're everywhere.
Like my door plays club, soccer, my son's playing club, soccer, and lacrosse, so we spend our nights sitting in parking lots, staring at our phones. But yeah, I love Amakasina, I love Dillon's, they have great seafood there. I love the fact that they use everything locally caught, so that's great. And to be honest with you, I can't, I don't think I've been to out for a while.
Rob Lee: Yeah, yeah. No, but I think liking the styles, like I like a nice pizza, you know, and I get something in the place, the Fornos over there, and like it's like a pizza, speak easy in downtown, and the Pasquale family owns it. And I just remember going there, I saw it like, I got influenced, so we did it. And I was like, there's a what? And I was like, okay, I get caught on gimmicks sometimes, but when I go there, and it's a place where I walk at pretty regularly and I go on my runs, and I see like this, what looks like an old delicatessen, and I was like, all right, what is this, it's kind of abandoned. And then you go past like the Belbacur, and this really small intimate spot, where they're making like a pizza right there, and they have all of these sort of small Italian classics that are coming out. I was like, oh, this is a dope date spot.
Wow. It's really nice, I've been there three times. And it's up there, and they had this one that was like one pizza, small pizza, it was a spicy like blueberry setto. I was like, this hits. And thinking of blueberries on pizza, it's like, this hits, the spice is proper. It's like, it can be more spicy, I don't care. It's delicious.
Chef Neill Howell: We also love the meal in it. We go there, because it's not too far from where we live. So we go there a lot, food's really great, solid. They have like a really simple like mesquined salads, green salads with, I think it's a parmesan cheese for just like simple. I just like simple food just done well. And you can tell when you eat food like that, they stung properly.
Rob Lee: There was a meme that me and Chris passed back and forth, this guy that's putting like, he has something on his hand, and he's like putting it over a hole, a leaking sort of like drum of water. And I was like, chef's when he has mediocre meat, and it's like cheese and bacon is in his hand.
And I was like, it's sort of a cover all for something that's not quite there. And I'm just very into it. My day job on the data analyst. So I'm paying attention to those things. And I'm always looking at it. And this is why I always go to CreaturePed at the same places. And it's like, this is the standard.
This is a really good thing. So here's the last one. This is fun, because I think you're going to square it when I ask you this. What would the title of your cookbook be? Oh my God.
Chef Neill Howell: No idea. God, no idea. Cookbook, God.
Rob Lee: Apparently we got to have these tangibles. I was told recently that I need to do a fiction book or a children's book. I was like, you don't know me, I thought it was Farcast. I'm a different dude, I thought it was Farcast. You're a lot spicy in a dialogue.
Chef Neill Howell: I am, no idea. I'm a bricks and bolts war. I have no idea. Who knows? I have no idea. You've stung me on that.
Rob Lee: It could work though. That's a tag that you guys use.
Chef Neill Howell: Yeah, we do use it on our, well, I'm not the best association media, but we do use that one of our tag lines. I have no idea yet. Cookbook. That would be fun to do. It sounds expensive.
Rob Lee: I mean, look, I always find ways to really agile with things, because for me, and I think that would be the title, for me, I think it's just something that should exist. Yeah, at the end of the day, I had this really cool conversation years ago. I went to New Orleans and I did an interview, and I don't know how I got it, but I did an interview with Isaac Tubbs from Tubbs Metering.
And we did the interview in the Metering and we're just chopping it up. And I mentioned the term, the New Orleans term, the Cajun term, Creole Laniap. And I was like, for the Laniap portion of the podcast, and it's like, oh, you know what Laniap means? I was like, I do. And he's like, oh, I got a cook for you now. And I was like, this is amazing. And you know, it was sort of bad, and he had his cookbook there.
And we're talking and through the conversation, I mentioned my favorite animal was an alligator. And he showed me the cookbook. He opens it. He has a giant fold-back alligator tattoo, and he autographs the cookbook. He's like, yeah, take this look at it. Oh, wow. And I was like, this is cool. And I was like, this is the point of doing all of these things. And did you get out of guys, I say?
No, I didn't, but I probably will. I think my next tattoo is going to be something a quarry or something. Yeah. Yeah, I was told.
It should be a biscuit. Look, look, don't get excited now. But that's kind of it for our conversation today. So, you know, two things I want to do is close out here. One, thank you for coming back on to the podcast. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. This is a treat. And two, share with the folks on website, social media, anything. You want to just focus the check out?
Chef Neill Howell: Yes, it's cornerdaddcantry.com. My Instagram is chefNeil Howe. And yeah, that's it. You know, you can go on our website, we're doing, it's on there or catering's on there. We're available for anything, nothing too large. I mean, we could do anything small or large. So, yeah, that's it. And like, you know, if anyone's got any feedback for us, how we can make our business better for them, I'd love to hear that. So, yeah, that's it.
Rob Lee: And there you have it folks. I want to again, thank chef Neil Howell from the corner pantry for coming back on to the podcast and catching up with me. This great conversation and, you know, one of my favorite places here in the city. So much continued success and really, really happy to hear about these great things happening here. And for chef Neil Howell, I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look for it. Thank you.
