Rob Lee: Welcome to The Truth In This Art, your source for conversations connecting arts, culture, and community. These are stories that matter, and I am your host, Rob Lee. Today, I'm excited to be running it back and welcoming back a returning guest, who is now a three-time guest on this podcast, Rarified Air.
He is the executive chef and owner of one of my favorite restaurants in Baltimore, Forged, a hyper-seasonal eatery, which is located in the Station North Arts and Entertainment District in Baltimore. So please welcome back to the program my friend, chef Chris Amondola. Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm Chris Amendola, and as you're one of now, I think, two or three three-time guests on this podcast. Yeah, I think number three. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chef Chris Amendola: I think you don't get anything from being on here three times, but you just get more of me asking you questions. But before we get into the larger conversation, and I frame sort of what this season is.
Rob Lee: This is the run-it-back season, and I'm intentionally trying to talk with folks who have been on here before, and obviously you were first on the list, and I was like, Chris got to come back on. But could you reintroduce yourself to the audience? And here's this one. What was the last thing you ate?
Chef Chris Amendola: All right, all right. So what's up, everybody? I'm Chris Amondola, chef owner of Forged, hyper-seasonal eatery, and now I guess Forged, that black ankle. Last thing I ate actually just had family meal over at the restaurant. I had a first chicken thigh and rice and some salad.
Rob Lee: Okay. Look, you're doing better than me. I mean, obviously you should be, because I'm on a cut right now. So I just had a protein shake and coffee. Not good. So thank you for that. And I like that you kind of teased sort of the new venture. We're definitely going to talk about that a bit. But one of the other things that I've noticed in here since you were last on the podcast, recent news, you recently traveled to Finland a couple weeks back. So I did. Talk to me about that experience and how perhaps that influenced or maybe added to your perspective on food.
Chef Chris Amendola: Oh man. So Finland, it was dope, dude. Super dope. I think the craziest thing is in the summertime there, it doesn't really get dark. So we flew from Dulles to London. We ended up, our flight was delayed. So we ended up staying in Heathrow for like seven hours because we missed our connecting flight, but then got to Helsinki at like 1130 at night. It was like daylight.
It was like what in the world is going on? And like even 2.30 in the morning, still sunlight. It's wild, wild. So the jet lag over there was ridiculous. But because of food, man, oh my God, we ate so many amazing restaurants. There was this one restaurant I've been following for years. It's called, I've learned the correct pronunciation.
It's called Green. And they're similar to us, right? Maybe a little bit more fine dining and they're like tasting menu only, but never in my life thought I would ever get to go eat there. And the second we got our flight details, made reservations too. I was like, we have to go eat there. I don't give a shit if we eat anywhere else, but we have to go there. And like, we were there and I was trying not to hype myself up for it.
Because you know, you like romanticize this for years online. And I'm like, oh my God, if it sucks, I'm going to be so disappointed. It's going to ruin my entire trip. But oh my God, it was probably top three meals of my life. It was phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. And like this trip was ridiculous.
We ended up eating at two, three Michelin star restaurants, two Michelin star restaurants, and three one Michelin star restaurants. So it was just like, what is going on here? You know, so like that was phenomenal. And it had a couple other really good restaurants in Helsinki. But the other big one is on our flight back.
We had a connecting flight back in London and we ended up going to the Fat Duck, which again, been following them for years. And I'm telling you, man, there was nothing in this world that was like that experience. Like just the attention to detail and just the experience as a whole.
Like the lights that were on the table were changed depending on what course you were getting. And like it was wild. The attention to detail they put into there. And then we didn't even know, but we got done with that dinner and I was like, oh, you check out a place called Waterside Inn. We're like, OK, and we're at Waterside Inn. Looked it up, it was another three Michelin star restaurant. So we're like, yeah, let's go have one today and tomorrow.
Rob Lee: So obviously you're people of taste. So yeah, you can have just a little more in depth. But you know, fine, fine. So so kind of eating through different parts of of Europe or what have you, right? Did it have an impact on how as you're returning and you're like going back, it's like, all right, how can I nip that? How can I apply that to what I do, whether it be from an experiential standpoint, whether it be maybe I could try this and experiment and maybe have this as a thing that pops up in a menu or something.
Chef Chris Amendola: For this one, I would say not quite so much with food, but drinks. OK. The wild thing over there was I probably did more non-alcoholic pairings than I did regular pairings because everybody was offering it. And usually the non-alcoholic pairings I've had here in the States.
All right. You know, they're like, you know, some non-alcoholic wines and blah, blah, blah, which aren't, I don't know if you never had a non-alcoholic wine, but it's like great juice. You know, but like these restaurants over there, they were like making their own wines. They were making their own sparkling wines, non-alcoholic and like cocktail or mocktails. You know, it was just like the attention that they were really putting into them was insane. One of the pairings at the Fat Duck, they were like, oh, we got some sau-blanc juice and we infused it with this and made our own sparkling and it was like the mouthfeel on it was exactly like regular wine. But it was wild. So we've definitely been pushing the team at the restaurant to step up our non-alcoholic game. I like that.
Rob Lee: And, you know, it's funny, like I've explored a few more sort of non-alcoholics. Like just options. Because, you know, like sometimes it's like, mocktail. But it's sort of like, all right, did you do something that seems interesting? Did you do something creative?
That's what I was saying before we got started. I read menus and I'm curious about what is this mocking? What is this attempting to do? What are the flavors that are at play there?
What work is being done to get us there? Or I could just have like a craft cocktail and sort of enjoy that experience one way or the other because I'm not moving away from one to try the other because I, you know, sort of, I can't drink. It was like, I'm choosing to try to broaden that up a little bit. And perhaps just see sort of the alchemy that goes on. Yeah.
Chef Chris Amendola: Yeah. I mean, for me, like I'm not the biggest drinker. Like I'll have some wine if I go out to dinner, you know, but I find it more interesting when the non-alcoholic pairing is like spot on because it shows me how much they care, you know. Most of the non-alcoholic pairings at Grun were mocktails that they made.
Sure. And it was just far beyond any kind of mocktail I've ever had in the United States. Just like the mouthfeel of the drink, like it coated your mouth and the way it paired with the food. It was just, I remember this one, it was one of the pre-deserts, but it was a raspberry, it was like post-rasberry dish. And the mocktail was a raspberry drink. And together it was just insane. It was, I almost started tearing up. This is so ridiculously good. Like this is wild.
Rob Lee: Well, you guys making a man have an emotional response. I mean, I've had that. I think I may have mentioned I've proposed to a lobster bisque before, which is ridiculous. I proposed to food.
It was like, I ate this. And yeah, I think going back to one of the things you said about, that you touched on about some of the non-alcoholic wines, that it just has this vibe because I think there's a few things that are at play with diners, with consumers, with the folks that are just out there. Folks are really looking at sugar. Folks are looking at alcohol. And the interesting thing is, and I've heard it in places where I'll just sit there at the bar and listen, oh, I don't drink mocktails. It was just sugar water. And it's just like, all right, cool.
And I don't drink alcohol because I'm this old. And it's sort of this dynamic. So I think you touched on it, the attention to detail.
If you're trying to do something and you have a point of view and you're applying something to it, you can have, you know, selling men tear up after enjoying their raspberry. Oh, 100%.
Chef Chris Amendola: There was definitely a couple courses that I just love. It's like, oh, what did I just eat? You know, like it was just, that's what I love about food. And, you know, going to restaurants like that, it's just that experience is better than anything for me. I love it. I love it.
Rob Lee: I want to move into to Forrest a little bit. And he's thanks a few questions. But I think the reason I was asking sort of like, you know, and I got, and I definitely got the answer from you, like sort of what that takeaway is.
Whenever I go to something that is in the lane or in the industry that I'm working in, naturally it's just going to, I'm going to have something that, through osmosis will have you. And I've gone to last year, I went to, well, actually earlier this year, I went to a podcast convention, I'm going to one later in the year. And while it doesn't change how I record a podcast, it doesn't change kind of how I do interviews. It gives me some context of, oh, this is what I like about this. This is what I enjoy.
And it's the degree of fellowship is being around the sort of stuff and seeing like, oh, this is how they do this. Cool. Good to know.
And come back with like a new energy, like a renewal, I suppose. So shifting into, to Forrest a bit, I'm curious about this because, you know, I've had a few chefs on this year, you know a few of them. Tell me about changes in tweaks to the menu. So, you know, obviously seasonal, so it's some chef's fair, certain things come in, certain things go out.
Because I noticed that Forrest, you know, the menu is pretty consistent and I admire this. So go there, I'm going to get what I want us like a look. If I can get, if I can get the focaccia right. Oh, it's a different butter today.
This is wonderful. And I have my favorites and I expect them to be on a menu and they're always there and they always hit. But then there's always this sort of seasonal ingredient tweak. And I like that when I'm talking to whoever, whoever's there, whether it be at the bar, whether it be server, what have you, they're like, oh, we have this type of butter with it today.
This is amazing. So describe the importance of, I guess, standardization and sort of like having room to play, whether it be with the type of compound butter, whether it be with a star word dish. Talk a bit about sort of that balance between having things that are standard and being able to play.
Chef Chris Amendola: You know, originally when I started the restaurant, I never wanted to have something on the menu that was just standard. You know what I'm saying? I wanted it to all switch. But over the years, we definitely have our stables now, you know, and I think that's important in a sense that you kind of have those favorites that people enjoy and they come back for. You know, and then obviously you build the trust and throw whatever in their pig parts, you know, something random. And they're like, okay, well, this is good.
Let's try this. You know, and it just kind of, I think it's fun to have that playing area where whether it's me or my guys, you know, like got this cool product and it's like, oh, let's play with it. It's what we can do. And, you know, or even like take that and rework it into one of our staple dishes, you know, it's just all about evolving. And, you know, I feel like every year we get some random product in and it's just like, where has this been for the last eight years?
Rob Lee: And it's a good segue. You said there, by the way, you're coming up on eighth anniversary, right? Oh, man. So, you know, I was actually interviewing a dude recently, a dude named Spence.
He's a musician. My partner and one of his friends, we sat together last year, it's the seventh anniversary and we were just kind of hanging and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna have pieces of pig right here. Fantastic. And some of my girls just like, you want me to get some pig? I was like, yeah, I got your own pig.
All right, first one's free. And so in that time, you know, we've, I would hope that I've learned something about being a podcaster in a year since, you know, from maybe whether it be from the business side, whether from the recording side, whatever we have experience, we have time, we're not stagnant. So for you, what have you learned in the last year from seven to coming up on eight, whether it be from a business perspective, whether it be as a chef, what's something that sticks out to you that's like, I've seen this, I've learned this before, or I've learned this.
Chef Chris Amendola: Oh man. Dan, that's a good question. I have a wonderful one. You know, it always surprises me, right? I have no business background up until eight years ago. I never ran a business. So it's always, I feel like it's always something with the business side of things that I'm learning. You know, I think I have it under control and then somebody shows me something. I'm like, damn, I should have been doing that for the last eight years, you know, or just like something along those lines. But it's always learning with the business, you know.
I mean, Jesus, like eight years ago, I would have never even began to think that this is how far, you know, this would have gone. But it's always that thing, you don't know what you don't know, you know.
Rob Lee: Or, you know, I'll put a more of a pot. You only know what you know. You'll put a positive spin on it. Exactly. Exactly. Because it's a thing where, so like, I'm a data analyst in the day job and I do this. I don't know every component of how to run a SQL script. I don't know every component of how to record. I know what I can do based on what I have in my disposal.
Like you're here in the video space and, you know, this is where we did the first interview as we touched on a little bit earlier. I'm not even using the gear that we had. I'm using a whole different setup. And it's just like, I'm sure there's a way I could maybe do that differently or have it integrated in here in a way. This is the purpose I have for it.
That's how I'm going to utilize it. And if I learn something cool, say, damn, I wish I knew that earlier, but also I'm able to get this. And chiefly, what I find is it's not even about knowing all of the stuff.
It's like knowing enough that they're being able to grow from that. All right. Because even getting to these spots, I want to do it one way. When something's taken out of your hands, you're like, all right. So how do I adapt? I don't know. I've always done it this way.
Chef Chris Amendola: That's been my life for the last eight years. You know, it's cool now with like seeing, we started the new operation and seeing like things I've, you know, learned in the past with opening a restaurant and now doing it again and, you know, seeing their processes on stuff. I'm like, damn, I should have been doing that a long time ago. You know, it's just, I love learning. You know, it's one thing I love about this industry is you'll never stop learning.
Rob Lee: And I got one more question before I go into sort of that because, you know, we got a little chunk there. So culturally, right? Like we're, I think, resistant to change. Oh yeah. That's the thing.
It's like, oh, change now. We do that. Not that.
Not that. And I had this conversation earlier with our mutual guy with Chef Neil, with Neil Hull from a corner pantry where he spoke about like staying relevant and changing, being in a part of like, this is what, why we're successful. This is why we're doing well and so on. Being adaptable. Otherwise, if you don't adapt, then you go the way of the dough though.
How do you navigate change within the industry and the profession? I know it's sort of a, almost a follow up to that previous question. Is it one of those sort of delays? Is it like, we got to be ahead of this almost the Gretzky thing of nowhere the puck is going?
Chef Chris Amendola: May I, I would say it depends on, you know, what it is. Me personally, I love change. I'm one of those people that stick to a routine. Like I am 100% routine based.
Yeah. And after a while it like messes with my head. And I'm like, I need to change, like switch it up. So I love change. I think it's, obviously you have to change and evolve, right?
To stay relevant. And if not, you're just going to fall off, you know? So, yeah, I mean, change for us in the restaurant. I think, as far as the food, obviously it changes, but the industry has changed a lot. So even from the time I started, when I was like 14, you know, up until 2020, there was a lot of change in the industry.
But from 2020 to like now, it's changed a hundredfold. And I'm still looking at, you know, what other people are doing and how they're operating their businesses and, you know, can we implement this to what we're doing to make us better? You know, and even like Marilyn's talking about getting rid of the tipping structure and it's like freaking out, you know, because now you're going to add on all this label. And I'm like, okay, well, what can we do to stay ahead of this? And, you know, if it really goes this route, like we need to stay ahead of this because if not, it could potentially crush the business. But, you know, I think it could be beneficial for all parties involved, you know. So I mean, I guess, depending on what it is, you know, I try and stay ahead of it as much as possible.
Rob Lee: Because you're being aware of the stuff. I think not just, you know, I've talked to, again, like I said, I've talked to some new shops, actually, that I've not been on this podcast before. And just getting that sense of like, I live this, I'm in this, it's not like a hobby. And I feel like that's important. And I love it when folks will say like, for the thing, whatever it is that you do, why are you so into it? Because it's the thing that I do. It's like, you're obsessed. I am.
I'm a crazy person. And I think being ahead and kind of understanding what's coming down the pike is very important. Okay. Because if you're just sitting here, you're just adapting. You're not, you know, you're, you're, you're sorry, you're just reacting. You're not adapting to it. You're not having strategy and structure there.
You're not giving yourself sort of time and bandwidth to adjust as needed. And, you know, with something is, and I see it all the time. And I've been somewhat quiet about, about these things, but I see that some of my, like, I don't know, peers of the word, but some fellow journalists can, with some press and some coverage, really impact the business. And we're already in a, specifically in, you know, culinary, we're already in a spot where folks are not going out to places.
And I think, you know, press can play a really weird like role in that. And it could lead to like, oh, I'm never going back to this place. And it's already with sort of small numbers or even a traffic disruption, all of these different things. So it's important to be aware that there's a parade today.
Yeah, we're probably not going to get as much traffic or it's going to rain today or things of that nature, just kind of being there wondering instead of wondering, why is no one here yet? Yeah. Yeah.
Um, so we're a few days removed from the garden party at the black ankle, then yet in GIV. I think that those initiatives are, are intentional, by the way. I'm a marketing person. So talk a bit about that, because you've teased it a couple of times, but talk a bit about sort of, you know, what, what the relationship is forage that the black ankle vineyard. Yep. Yep. Talk about the relationship, VAV and what was the experience like on, on Saturday? Talk about that whole scope. Give me the full download. The full. All right. All right.
Chef Chris Amendola: So did you sign it in blood? With a wine? So we've always been working with black ankle. We've always had at least one of their wines on the menu. And earlier this year, they were like, Hey, we're thinking about buying a food truck. You want to operate it? Absolutely. And I think I kind of said it, but I wasn't even really thinking about it. You know, it was just kind of like, this sounds cool. Let's do it. You know, but it's, it's, it's a great, definitely a lot of challenges, right?
We don't do 600 covers at the restaurant, but out there, it's like, a Saturday, you know, and it's like trying to get that volume is insane. But it's good, right? You're learning.
Yeah. We had the garden party on this past Saturday. First time trying to execute an event on the truck and service at the same time. You know, that was interesting. I think it went well, but, I think we're still in that stage of learning where our feeling is and what we can and can't do and learning those limitations. We've got some wine dinners coming up and stuff like that. I'm curious to see how that goes. Can we execute a three course menu?
Rob Lee: I'll say one. Thank you for the invite. It was really cool to show up. I like that place. It's a really nice spot. We were in the girl face. We were talking about just being there. The menu was a different vibe. I was like, oh, we are out here.
From the past apps to, as I said earlier, before we got started, the BLT, the street cars, what happened? What's with the mad science? What have we got going on here?
I just know it was one part. I got back in line because she's a Desoque Carnaaur. She does this thing. She's getting tired of these half-formed desserts that places have. She gets, look, you just hit her up one day and she's like, so what do you think about desserts?
Here's my dissertation. Here's how she is. She's like, all right, so what's up with this peach cobbler? We enjoy the peach cobbler. We got the peach cobbler while we're in line waiting for it.
I think it's one person that's doing the past apps and it's got the smoked duck will have you. I thought, yo, I don't think you can get out of this past this line because we're all going to have some of that. You're just going to go right back.
You might just want to just hang out. It was so good. It hit in a way. I was just like, yo, can I get like a vat of that? It's one of those things where it paired well, obviously, with the wine that was there.
It was a hit. Even the setup, I was just like, you guys are busy and I get protective, obviously. I ordered better.
I was going that. But you guys were hustling because I was just like, look at over there. Look at over there.
Chrissy the shroom over there. He's having a tie. She's just like, he's laser focused right now. I was like, yes. Then you looked up, I was like, he's not that focused.
He's his man. I was like, oh, that's a catalog right there. But it was just watching because I've seen you cook and do your stuff, but seeing you in that capacity and those sort of not confines them in that sort of different environment that out there environment is something that's new. I was like, this is going to be dope for them. I just thought it was a really cool thing. I was like, yeah, what's the next one?
Chef Chris Amendola: No, I mean, I think out there it's beautiful. It is a beautiful vineyard. My next, I can't say next restaurant because we already have, now we have a restaurant on a farm. But I've always wanted that restaurant on a farm. I feel like I'm getting closer to that now that we were on this vineyard.
It was fun. I was talking to a GM the other day and she's like, oh, feel free to set up a farm out here. I was like, really? She was like, yeah. I was like, careful what you're telling me I can do out here.
Rob Lee: Literally. It's just like, what else can I do? And that's the thing. That's the thing that it makes sense, right? Because in the, how many years have I known you?
Chef Chris Amendola: It's been at least eight because that first recording was, yeah.
Rob Lee: Yeah. So in the years that I've known you, that's been your personality too. And it's more like my partner says, she's like, yeah, I'm going to do Chris real quick. I was like, what's Chris? Yeah, fuck yeah, man.
I was like, that is Chris. But it's definitely a, let's do this sort of thing versus again, going with the hockey analogy I mentioned earlier, the Gretzky thing where the puck is going, sort of the not being a goalie to a thing. So having that being reciprocated to you of, yeah, let's do a farm out here. Sure. Whatever you want to do. Yeah.
It's a really good vibe. It doesn't stop something short. It allows you to sort of expand.
So what other takeaways from it? Because that was the first time we went to sort of food truck setup, right? Would you try it in any other capacity? Would you say, look, hey, we're going to bring this down here, put it in the station north area, maybe one of those food truck rallies?
Chef Chris Amendola: Yeah, I've been thinking about that. But I know Frederick's got a food truck rally coming up or festival or something like that. That might be dope to do. Scroll up there one day and see what that is. I don't know. I might have a pitch for you.
Rob Lee: All right. I have ideas. I may have written this on a boat. So that's good. And sort of expanding on this sort of territory, you guys have forged and you are known for like these great relationships with these farms, a sort of really good product, great relationships with butchers, great relationships with even chocolate tears. What are some of the ventures and collaborations? What do you look for in those ventures and collaborations? Am I missing the collaboration that is there? Because there's so many different things, so many different fingers and pies.
Chef Chris Amendola: I feel like so much of this just happens so naturally. Like, I don't really go out looking for new locations or clads or, you know, if somebody will mention something and I'll be like, that sounds dope. That sounds like it's right along the lines. And it's like, well, let's just go do that. But so much of this just happens naturally. We were talking about opening another location prior to this and thankfully it didn't work out but this ended up going down this road and I was like, all right, this is great. Going out to the county and getting that crowd out there and expanding.
Rob Lee: I mean, go back actually, because I forgot to actually dive into this. You were talking about, so 600, give me that number again?
Chef Chris Amendola: Yeah, doing like 400, 600 on a Saturday?
Rob Lee: It's wild. So how does that compare to like a really busy night at the restaurant? What are their forts?
Chef Chris Amendola: Oh, man, it's too, I want to say it's two different worlds, but not really. It's still very, very similar, just like head down cranking. Obviously, the restaurant's a little bit more dialed in and focused on what we do there, but it's the same thing. It just puts your head down and hope for the best.
Rob Lee: Yeah, if I think like when, and this is the thing, what's upon a time at the beginning of, I don't think I've ever told you this, at the beginning of sort of the pandemic, I talked to another guy that was doing another thing about, I say, hey, I wonder, I wonder Chris will let us like work as servers or something just to have that experience.
Yeah. Because like, you know, when people talk about like, if you've never worked in a restaurant or served, like you don't have anything to say. And I was like, I want to understand the scope of it because I already appreciate, I already have a sort of romanticized, you know, chef and sort of that whole, that industry, but also just understand like, what does that look like?
What does that whole scope look like? And I think as a consumer, as a patron, someone that backside of it, they show have any idea of what the, what goes into the prep. You're just there for service. Oh yeah. And then even the back end of it, because, you know, I've watched the show, I've seen some things and I was just like, I wonder what it's like cleaning up the food truck after the, no, no, literally my baking. I was like, I'm going to finish this peach cobbler.
I was like more power and love and respect. And then we go over there, me and the girl, please go over to say bye. And I was like, my man Chris over there is being covered in sud. And I was just like, I don't want to interrupt them.
They're busy. I'm going to head out and then you come, you're up. And she's like, oh my God, I'm so cute that Chris came in and wanted to say bye. I was like, my man has covered his fuzz. I still feel bad about this. I feel bad about that we're friends and it says bye because I know it's taken them away from a dish.
Chef Chris Amendola: Now, you know, it's so true. Like most people have no idea what it takes to get that food from start to finish on the year plate, you know, and it's, I can talk for what we do at the restaurant. You know, there is so much work that goes into prepping the food, sourcing the food.
You know, so much steps before you even like hits the kitchen, you know, for us to prep it to get it ready for service. I think, I think everybody should work in the fruit service industry for a year, whatever, you know, just to understand it. You know, one thing I hate is those people that think they can talk down to service industry. Oh, I want to choke that dude. But, you know, it's like, damn, like go work in a restaurant for a day. You know, see what it actually takes to do what we do. You know, but yeah, I love it. Love it.
Rob Lee: It's the thing. It's like being there in a spotlight. We all have our different things that we're doing, especially when we're paying attention to detail. We're really dialed into what it is. And it's just like, yeah, a lot of stuff to get things going. I love it, but also there's a lot of stuff here to do. And, you know, I did like, so I was on a, I think I was sharing with the others on a cruise and they're, they're sort of their setup is they're doing dinner from let's say five to nine.
And it's like basically two services. And I'm like, I'm not just going to hang here. Have a problem. We can have the conversation outside because they need to set up for this next day, turn the table over and you know, it's kind of that nudge cause it's very hospitable because we're guests.
And I was just like, oh, I'm the only one that's getting this right now that we need to roll the tickets are done. This is already covered. So I was just hanging out here and I apply that sort of same philosophy and, you know, I've watched and seen enough discourse around it.
I haven't experienced but seen enough discourse around it. I'm not the person that's trying to be in the way. I'm not the person that needs that extra attention. Like if I can post it at the bar and be out of the way, I'm not a real person.
I, you know, like I noticed folks that are in sort of the scene and in the industry, I go there, industry code is attached to me. It was like, he gets it and I move out of the way. That's literally what it is.
Yeah. The, the other thing that going back to be a V that I really dug is as you, what you touched on, it's really beautiful out there. Like, you know, I've been there when it was still like really sunny and, um, you know, it was like sort of an earlier birthday party setup in this most recent one, I was like, you know, we'll do like an hour and a half.
I was like, yo, we stayed the whole time and it was so dark outside. Your werewolf is here. I can guarantee it. It's so peaceful right now. And it was just like the wine is good. The food was good. Just that whole experience was good. And I think when we were out there previously, we were like one of the, like the side private rooms.
So I didn't really get to get a good perspective of sort of the full setup. And I was like, you know, this fits. That was literally what I, it's like, you know, it's like checking out your boys, new girlfriend is like, she cool. That was what I was like, how's forward's doing out here? Yeah. Yeah.
Chef Chris Amendola: And it's exactly like, it just seems like such a natural fit, you know, and I'm, I'm not one to like push something. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Yeah. And, but this is just like, it just seems natural.
Rob Lee: You know, it's definitely a hit. Um, so I got, I got two more questions, um, that I want to rock with you. I have some rapid fire questions. So one of the things that I watch a lot of, um, watch a lot of old cooking shows. And, um, it's, it's something like cooking shows in Disney channel. So I watched those, maybe some old cartoons.
I watched those. It helps. And one of the gems I came across as old Julia child observation about this, this syndrome with this fear of failing, uh, preventing us from learning to cook. And that's, that's one of the things that popped up. And I think failure is integral to learning to cook. And she touches on that. Um, there's this, can you, you know, share like a time where it's like, you failed and failed and failed in the kitchen and eventually you got it. What was that experience? What are the specific dish? What's the technique?
Chef Chris Amendola: You know, the one that comes directly to mind, uh, I love trying to make anything I can make from scratch, right? And one day I had this idea of, I want to make, um, I want to make these little tiny hot dogs for our trickery board.
Cause I was like, that'd be dope. You know, just get a little hot dog that you can get on your security board. It took me like seven times to make a hot dog.
Right. And it, it was like by number six, I was so frustrated because it's emulsified sausage, right? So the slightest little thing you'll, it'll break and so, and God, I must have wasted so much pork and pork fat on it. Just trying to get this right. And the seventh time it just worked out and I was so stoked. Dude, I was like, not doing this again.
We're going to leave it at that. But, oh my God, failing is I've failed so many times. Um, but yeah, the important thing is to get back up and keep doing it.
Rob Lee: You learn something along the way, like, Hey, I don't like this now. Or like, Hey, maybe this is something else that can turn into a signature thing or, or something along those lines. So like, yeah, you hear from like producers or stuff is like, yeah, I was trying to make this beat. You know, you, you had hip hop beats all the time before. So you get it. Um, I was trying to make this beat. I was trying to do this, didn't quite work out, but it became this song. Yeah. All right.
Chef Chris Amendola: That's the flip side of it. Like sometimes you start down the road and it doesn't work, but you've totally created something else that is amazing, you know, and love it. Yeah.
Rob Lee: So here's the last real question I got for you. And sort of that, that same theme, like again, watching old cooking shows and roller-gazzy, I've been watching all the time and just, you know, we're, we're the same age, which it's a thing. Um, and just, you know, it's one of those things like, I haven't been to any of his restaurants yet. It's been the New Orleans seven times.
It's not gone to any of them yet. Um, but you know, I've said that cooking isn't about science, it's about soul. And you know, I was a, not a good student of science.
Hmm. Um, and I learned like early on, I wanted to be in robotics, right? I want to go into engineering and robotics. And that took a physics class. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. I was like, I'm not going to be a roboticist. That's just not a thing.
I'm going to go to a university of Miami for this too, by the way. And, um, but, but it caught my attention. This, this idea is like not about science, about soul. And, you know, I think it speaks to learning from experience. So what's your favorite piece of wisdom that you've learned, let's say in recent years that you would perhaps say to younger Chris, you know,
Chef Chris Amendola: when I was younger, I thought the more the better, right? Nowadays, right? I know cooking comes from your soul, right? Your heart, you put your heart into it and it's going to be good. You know, so I nowadays, I keep things simple and straightforward. And, you know, as long as you're, I think a lot of people overthink cooking, right? And it's, it's not as hard as most people think it is.
Um, you know, it's, it's true. Like you cook with your soul. You know, that's what it is and not, not about following a recipe. And, you know, maybe sure, you know, if you need some methods or something along those lines, but like do whatever you want. Like, you know, they can need some more garlic. There's more garlic in there. You know, just do it.
Rob Lee: Yeah. It's, it's a thing like going back to one of the things I was touching earlier about my, uh, Coke and spirit or the hot dessert takes and she's always just like, you know, we could be, we start breaking down different places and like what their desserts are as far as like regions. And she's like, the third Southern, if it's not Southern, it doesn't count. And I'll say this is the take of takes, but it's sort of that. I think it does speak to us. She's like, I think literally of soul food and the key emphasis on that first word there. And I find that times things that you like enjoy, you feel good eating. Like this is amazing.
I love when, to your thing about people over complicating things. I remember this goofy take a couple of years ago about like mac and cheese, like just kind of being commoner food. I was like, man, it's delicious. Firstly, I was like, I've seen some bad ones when it comes out of a box.
And I've seen some ones that are like, this is, oh, Dean is amazing. But just the idea is just like the simplicity is what you, you want it in anything can be, I think broken down into something a little bit more like, like simple. I think when it's over complicated, it makes it, these and maybe how it's pitched.
Right. That it makes it less approachable, makes it more rarefied. And then it's like, I don't know if I want that. Yeah. I just want this hot dog in the Shakira replay there. You know, that Madola is going to fail at like.
So yeah, I think that's a good takeaway there. I got four rapid fire questions for you. It was only three. So here's the, here's the first one. What's dinosaur best describes your personality? Oh, yeah. Come out swinging with the.
Chef Chris Amendola: Oh, best describes my personality. I'm a pterodactyl. Oh my God.
Rob Lee: And for those who don't know, it's always dinosaur. We noticed them at the frigid at the B.A .Z.
Chef Chris Amendola: She's like, that was our welcome present out there that they gave us. She like handed me a bag and she's like, oh, you know, this welcome, welcome me out, here and I don't know if it was dinosaurs. I was like, yes. Man, best describes my personality. I don't know. First thing that comes to mind is like a velociraptor. Because I just just get hit, you know.
Rob Lee: You just like, just like, yeah, you know, I know your grandfather made this place. I'm going to take you out in this lab. Little Jurassic Park all back. Um, I think I take up space. It's just like I'm one of those. I'm like a megalodon.
I'm a dinosaur. So if you were to start from zero, like everything that with everything that you know now will be the first thing you do in the culinary world.
Chef Chris Amendola: Oh, starting from zero. Um, would you keep the knowledge that you have? Keep the knowledge that I have. Um, I might have not jumped around so much. Um, there was three per years, I would take a job, learn as much as I could quote unquote learn, you know, and move on. And I feel like some of those restaurants, I probably should have stuck around a little bit longer at, you know, um, but I had this thing, like whenever I ran into somebody in public that I knew pack up and move, which it was always roughly about a year and a half. But the funny thing about it is when I first moved to Baltimore, I ran into somebody from every state that I lived in in the first month that I was here. Like from Florida to Massachusetts. I was like, what is going on? Like I can't move. It's been a month.
Rob Lee: I get that a little bit like, oh, we've seen you in person. Yeah. Um, let's see, uh, let's see. Using the food in the style of food that you make like roast at home and at forage and, you know, what would you make for the child version of you? Oh, these proper fire ones are a little introspective.
Chef Chris Amendola: That's a good one. Um, for the child, oh man, it's probably some pasta. Uh, I love, I still do. But pasta was my thing as a kid. Um, and I never really knew. I was always the box dried pasta, right? And I never really knew about like handmade raviolis or whatever. Definitely a pasta dish. Okay.
Rob Lee: All right. Here's the last one. Um, and maybe it was in the, maybe it was in your trip to Finland, but, uh, what was the most adventurous item you've eaten in the last year? Oh, in the last year.
Chef Chris Amendola: Um, most adventurous. Um, I had some mealworms at the fat duck, which was, was interesting. I'm not a big person. Um, we did just get at the restaurant some lantern fly honey, which I thought was when I saw it, I was like, what is this? You know, like that just sounds weird. And then I was talking to the farmer about it. And he's like, Oh, lantern flyers excrete you that bees consume and turn into honey. I was like, okay, that doesn't sound too bad. And you know, and we ended up getting some and, uh, like even just thinking about it, like, this is from lantern flies. Like I step on these things outside. Like I like, it was phenomenal. I had like this smoky maple maple flavor to it. Like wild.
Rob Lee: I see, you know, two things. The one I had killer bee honey this one time. I was like, I don't know about this. It's not going to poison myself. We'll see. And I did try it. It was pretty good. It was fine.
And I know, and more recently, and this is you related, uh, when we were there at the B.A .V. The Goudon party, I think one of the things that passed by, cause I was like, I think we're in a bad spot to get these past apps. I was like, we need to box these dudes out. So at a point, some dude comes in there and he has like one of the last cups of frigging, I at the pig ear or have you that was like the strips. And one again, you know, pescatarian, she's like, you'll give me some of that. She's like, I don't think I was like, you know, he does a thing and it's good.
She's like, this is delicious. He'd be more of those. And then I heard somebody like, yeah, these are pigs. He does like they are not, it's not the same part of the animal. I got, I got to get the fence.
Chef Chris Amendola: I said, you know, it was funny to serve in those out there because a lot of those county people are like, pig ears.
Rob Lee: All right. You eat these? Yeah. You eat all of them. You put them into Rideau dust and they'll get it. Philo-themed. Philo-themed. So that's kind of it in terms of catching up. I think we covered a lot of ground here, talked about the new ventures, talked about some of your thoughts on the scene or what have you.
You know, always wanting to learn, always learning new things. Yeah, man. Um, so these final moments, so one, two things I want to do, I want to thank you for coming back on being a part of the pod again. Thank you. And multiple time guests and two, um, fellow folks, way to check you out. Social media and all of that good stuff. Forged, you have used the floor is your. Yeah.
Chef Chris Amendola: So, uh, see Forged hyper seasonal, hyper seasonal eatery, uh, 1799 North Charles. Uh, now we have Forged at black, black ankle, which is out at black ankle vineyard in Mount airy, uh, just started a late night cocktail thing, which is pretty dope.
Rob Lee: And I told the glasses, but your social media, forged.eatery is, uh, Instagram and then, uh, Forged at the vineyard is the other projects. So they have it folks. I want to again, thank the great chef Chris Semondola for coming back off of the podcast. Thank you man. Spending a yarn with me and for Chris, I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community and around your neck of the woods. You just have to look forward.