Deyane Moses discusses her work in archiving and preserving Black history

00;00;02;05 - 00;00;31;13
Rob Lee
Howdy. Rob Lee here from the Truthiness Art podcast. And this episode is brought to you by Rob Lee. Rob Lee, not me, but the Rob Lee. That's special coffee drink that you can find a sophomore to Rob Lee for those who don't get it. It is a mix of your iced coffee. Just just flavourful iced coffee. You know, sophomore does really good iced coffee because they roast their own coffee so that that makes a difference.

00;00;31;26 - 00;00;53;02
Rob Lee
Secondly, in this iced coffee, you'll get just a dusting of cinnamon and then an a generous amount of simple serve. And it's again, over ice. That is the Rob Lee go there to sophomore that's 2223 Maryland Avenue in Baltimore and order the Rob Lee and any of their other great drinks. Get some beans. Get a T-shirt. Sophomore forever.

00;00;53;09 - 00;00;58;25
Rob Lee
Check out sophomore and get the Rob Lee. They're a sophomore coffee because I'm.

00;01;06;10 - 00;01;10;19

Only a couple months down.

00;01;14;03 - 00;01;16;18

I think I recognise it.

00;01;16;19 - 00;01;34;05
Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth. It is art. I am your host, Rob Lee. The great Rob Lee. The Rob Lee, you know, love Baltimore, probably, you know, fill in whatever other blank you got today. I am in conversation with an artist, archivist and curator. Please welcome Don Moses. Welcome to the podcast.

00;01;34;14 - 00;01;38;07
Deyane Moses
Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so honoured to be in conversation with you tonight.

00;01;38;18 - 00;01;46;17
Rob Lee
Absolutely happy to have you on. Big shout out to you like dig the work that you're doing. I like this visual Baltimore. Oh, thank you.

00;01;46;17 - 00;01;47;04
Deyane Moses
Thank me.

00;01;48;05 - 00;02;04;23
Rob Lee
I see the background. It's just like highlights is like a trailer of all the cool stuff that you've been involved in. So shout out to you. So as we get started, I want to start off with the softball kind of question or have you some might think it's more of a horrible than a softball but city almost a story.

00;02;05;02 - 00;02;11;15
Rob Lee
Give us give us the story. And you know, what was it that led to this turn to your career in like arcs?

00;02;12;17 - 00;02;38;10
Deyane Moses
Okay. I am a transplant into Baltimore. I'm grew up in emerging from northern Baltimore. It's been some time in P.G. County. But I went to grew up in a predominately white neighbourhood when it was just, you know, I didn't know who I was or much about my culture while I was there. My mother was also from the Caribbean and she really wanted to assimilate into American culture.

00;02;38;18 - 00;02;57;21
Deyane Moses
So I was kind of no, you know, who I was. Eventually I went to college, dropped out after a year of HBCU Charlotte to be a shoe, and I joined the military as a broadcast journalist. And so when I joined the military as a broadcast journalist, it really opened my eyes and to other cultures. But I was still surrounded and so always looking in and connecting to our our people.

00;02;58;05 - 00;03;15;20
Deyane Moses
When I lived in Korea for three years, I had a radio show and also documented life of soldiers in the field. And majority of soldiers who lived closer to the edge of the area were African-American. And so I when I was out doing news stories and things like that, things that were assigned to us were catered to our white comrades.

00;03;16;00 - 00;03;39;09
Deyane Moses
And I started noticing that now I want to talk to him, who is working over here, because he's also doing that work. So slowly but surely, I started highlighting black stories in my radio show, you know, highlighting our culture. And it was a hit. I eventually was diagnosed with M.S. and went to live in, which is multiple sclerosis and then went to live in L.A..

00;03;40;00 - 00;04;06;08
Deyane Moses
When I was in L.A., I was also working for the government doing news, and the same thing was happening, the same gaps that I was seeing again. So I started highlighting black life in L.A. doctors, paparazzi, other midwives, other communities all over, all over L.A. And I eventually also started going to, you know, more museums and different things like that and seeing work by Rene Cox.

00;04;06;21 - 00;04;21;27
Deyane Moses
I love I love fantasy. It's so like seeing where I was when I was sick about like who really inspired me. I really I was like, oh, she's she's speaking to me. She talk about the history, but she's also talking about liberating us today. When she was freeing Uncle Ben, they were saying, I want it on your mind.

00;04;21;27 - 00;04;35;27
Deyane Moses
And so I was like, I want to I want to do something like that. And so it let me back to Mike. And it led me back to that. Let me back to it. Let me to Mike. Excuse me. That led me to Maryland. So that's kind of like where how I came back, you know, to the East Coast.

00;04;36;00 - 00;04;36;09
Deyane Moses
Yeah.

00;04;36;22 - 00;04;38;25
Rob Lee
That's an interesting trajectory there.

00;04;38;25 - 00;04;40;22
Deyane Moses
I like I think I love I love it.

00;04;41;14 - 00;04;44;07
Rob Lee
Took you all over the world a little bit, actually.

00;04;44;07 - 00;04;47;21
Deyane Moses
I try to keep it short because I have lived several lives. Trust me.

00;04;48;04 - 00;04;55;11
Rob Lee
I've lived one. I don't know if it's been particularly good, but I know another time story. Story for another podcast.

00;04;55;12 - 00;04;55;24
Deyane Moses
Right?

00;04;56;14 - 00;05;09;06
Rob Lee
So let's see. So one of the things that that came up a lot, obviously, is black eyes. Tell me tell me about it. Tell me about black eyes and what's the mission. Yeah.

00;05;09;16 - 00;05;34;05
Deyane Moses
So Black Eyes is a business that I started to assist communities and individuals with research archival services, as well as mobilising that research, whether it be an exhibition, it could be they might not even be mobilising it. It could just be compiling that information to a finding it or summarising what we have, what we found and something that I've noticed throughout archival work.

00;05;34;05 - 00;05;56;06
Deyane Moses
This happened in Baltimore and being a newly I was people I kick on I want to call myself an archivist because of the work that I do. But I am officially applying for MLS, MLS, the University of Maryland next year to officially get that degree. But in the archives, I've seen a lot of communities, our communities lacking with the resources to preserve those materials.

00;05;56;14 - 00;06;15;23
Deyane Moses
It might not be organised but there's, you know, might not be organised and might not be ordered organised. But there are any archival boxes and different things like that or no one's there to actually properly care for and tell me what to do next. So that's where I've kind of like wanted to really focus on with Black Ops LLC and assisting different communities individuals with that.

00;06;16;24 - 00;06;38;03
Rob Lee
Yeah. And you know, I've, I've spoken to a few folks that are working with archives and you know, I think it's one, it seems like it's never enough because it's, it's a rich history, especially here and, you know, you have you start looking at demographics like I get caught in the numbers. Like my day job as a numbers guy is like, where's analytics?

00;06;38;10 - 00;06;57;04
Rob Lee
And you have a city that's 70% black and then there's only like, you know, maybe it's my ignorance here, but you're like the third one third archives that I've spoken to or who's doing that sort of work? I'm like, All right, where, where the rescue. There's so many stories. There are so many stories.

00;06;57;04 - 00;07;23;07
Deyane Moses
But there are a lot of there are more archivists of colour coming to the area and going through school. I've been attending a lot of archives conferences, Eric, which is the mid-Atlantic Region Conference, oral history conferences and different on that. I'm always meeting more archivists. There are a few that are that live in Baltimore, but, you know, live work in D.C. and there are, you know, a few over here.

00;07;23;26 - 00;07;30;28
Deyane Moses
So yeah, the archives community is growing, people of colour are coming in. So I'm really excited to see, to see the field grow and to be a part of it.

00;07;31;18 - 00;07;48;16
Rob Lee
Yeah, it's just, you know, because I think a lot of times like, I don't know, my own family history or what have you. So like having like that culture say, oh, we may have been from North Carolina like everyone was, we may have come from everyone was just like, let's get to some degree of how far can I trace back?

00;07;48;16 - 00;08;03;16
Rob Lee
And I think other cultures kind of like or is more accessible to get that when I see that what is the for 23 and me sort of commercials or how do you hear people I'm sure that's great you know mean.

00;08;04;10 - 00;08;35;26
Deyane Moses
Yeah some I mean some people can do it with their with their family trees others can't. I because of the work that I'm doing now and like knowing so much about other people's history has really galvanised me over the last year and a half to look into my own history, my family history, and I've taken the 23 metres, I'm taking the ancestry test and they kind of, you know, the same results and I can only go back maybe to my great grandfather is connecting me with some other family members and give me some things.

00;08;35;26 - 00;08;49;04
Deyane Moses
But yeah it's you cannot, you can't not trace black people very well through ancestry at all because of course they didn't see us as human and didn't count us on the census until after 1860. So, yeah.

00;08;49;17 - 00;09;09;16
Rob Lee
That that's going to lead to these next bullet points that fall under here. You know, love this. So what prompted that, that interest? And I think you really, you know, spoken out a little bit. What prompted that interest in looking under the surface and raising the collective awareness around institutional racism, like on the campus and Baltimore and in the broader art world?

00;09;10;03 - 00;09;26;28
Deyane Moses
Yeah, for sure. I when I came to my I was a transfer student. I was about 30 years old, just got the military and I've been out for maybe like two years. And I knew that Baltimore was a predominantly black city. And so I also had visited the college and the campus, and I saw black people working there.

00;09;26;28 - 00;09;46;01
Deyane Moses
And so, you know, I just assumed that, you know, it was a pretty wide, diverse community. I came to class and literally the first week and I'm, you know, getting oriented with the classes and the students. And I'm the only black person in my class. I think maybe in my photography class, I think there was three of us.

00;09;46;01 - 00;10;01;14
Deyane Moses
But in the other classes we were it was all I was the only one. And so it made me start thinking like, what is up with this place? Like what is the history behind it? Like, how did this happen? And so I started asking. I started going to black union meetings and asking them and they did not know.

00;10;02;01 - 00;10;23;00
Deyane Moses
I was asking other professors on the campus who had been there for a while. They didn't know. So, you know, of course, go to the library. They told me they had a big book. Oh, I just put it up somewhere. They have a 300 page book that they had just printed. And so I started reading the book and I came to page 91, which talked about segregation at the Institute, but it was completely whitewashed, straight up.

00;10;23;18 - 00;10;41;14
Deyane Moses
It was whitewashed. They mentioned our first black student, Harriet Pratt, and then some other black students came, but they didn't go on to further detail about who their names were. What did they go on to do, anything like that. And so I was like, Right, who are these people? What happened to them like that? That can't be the end of the story.

00;10;41;14 - 00;11;01;04
Deyane Moses
Of course, I read the rest of the book. They mentioned a few black artists who had taught at the institute. But that's like that was that was it. And so that that's that's what it started it from right there. I said, okay, well, I'm going to find out more about Harriet Pratt. I'm going to start looking into when when my kid got sued and maybe even looking into some newspaper articles to find out what it was.

00;11;01;04 - 00;11;21;03
Deyane Moses
So led me to the Afro and it led me to more. And of course, I love that heifer. Let me see the arrow this time and other different court proceedings. And so that just that is what started, you know, the interest in the archives. And of course, when I came to community working at the University of Baltimore, Angela Rogers Cooley and the work that they do in Baltimore with community archives.

00;11;21;09 - 00;11;30;28
Deyane Moses
So is just really just snowballed from like 2017. It's kind of when it started happening to down to 17 and it's been growing ever since.

00;11;31;18 - 00;11;45;09
Rob Lee
That's that's great and important work. And it shifts into like I think one, I think it's it's a great start because, you know, the way that you describe that start, it starts off as a question, you know, like, why is this the case?

00;11;45;20 - 00;11;46;01
Deyane Moses
Yeah.

00;11;46;02 - 00;11;52;02
Rob Lee
And, you know, getting into that investigative getting into that, you know, especially the data guys, let's get to the granularity. What's the.

00;11;52;04 - 00;11;53;17
Deyane Moses
Bedrock?

00;11;53;17 - 00;12;18;13
Rob Lee
And, you know, when you're able to uncover those things, you're like, no, this should be different. Why is this the case? And I talk on occasion about this this notion of Baltimore's rebrand. And I'm like, there are a lot of firsts here, and not all of them are good. And we seem not to talk about them, but they still have repercussions that affect people that look like you and me.

00;12;18;20 - 00;12;19;07
Deyane Moses
Right.

00;12;19;11 - 00;12;42;06
Rob Lee
And, you know, it's like, no, no, on all of it. And you know, you talk about, you know, the census or what have you. And I remember being on a campus, being on the campus of Johns Hopkins and just walking by. You see different things. And, you know, you read signs. You know, we all read what we all but you know, you read signs and you see, oh, this is where the you know, the quarters for us.

00;12;42;06 - 00;12;42;28
Rob Lee
I would say quarters.

00;12;43;11 - 00;12;43;21
Deyane Moses
Right.

00;12;43;23 - 00;12;45;26
Rob Lee
Like right there. This is something to acknowledge that.

00;12;45;29 - 00;12;46;07
Deyane Moses
Right.

00;12;46;12 - 00;12;55;21
Rob Lee
And I think in recent years, you know, you have Michael, we have JHU and we have, you know, the Baltimore Sun all kind of having to acknowledge.

00;12;56;04 - 00;12;56;06
Deyane Moses
It.

00;12;56;12 - 00;13;16;26
Rob Lee
Publicly, whether it's through the apology from from like a shout out to you. JH You and this, this kind of weird sort of, yeah. You know, Hopkins had slaves, but we only counted so many. It's like, right, that story was really weird. It's like, yeah, knowledge it but we're not going to say is like if you had power and wealth.

00;13;17;08 - 00;13;19;15
Deyane Moses
This is property, right? Exactly.

00;13;19;15 - 00;13;26;29
Rob Lee
So that's let's let's not diminish. It can be both. It can be you were one of the wealthiest people here, but you only had one slave. That's not how that works.

00;13;27;12 - 00;13;27;23
Deyane Moses
Mm.

00;13;28;11 - 00;13;57;12
Rob Lee
And then the Baltimore Sun being out at first, just some of the different things that they've done and how they reporting that's gone in there. Other obviously more so from your standpoint in doing like research in this field and kind of like really like uncovering a lot of things and revisiting and unearthing and things of that nature. What do you want to see more of these kind of like prominent entities that have, you know, kind of reap some of these benefits or have worked unchecked in regards to making these sorts of amends?

00;13;57;24 - 00;14;16;00
Deyane Moses
Right. I would like to see tangible quantify well, like results, you know, the way where we can look in the archives and see like you made this amount of money, you affected this person, you've done that. Like, let's go back and assess that, do more research into who you affected, how you affect them, and then that plus interest.

00;14;16;08 - 00;14;35;21
Deyane Moses
I think that's a one way to definitely to definitely start continue to reflect and do the research because I feel like, you know, we've looked into Michael's racist path, they've apologise. But like, how are we moving forward from here? Are we making the space safer or are we hiring more people of colour, faculty of colour? Are we researching and assisting with the Black Archives Project?

00;14;35;21 - 00;14;51;22
Deyane Moses
Are we teaching people about the history of the institution and how it relates to the city of Baltimore? How it's affecting the city of Baltimore? That's important because not knowing the history of a place, if whoever comes in after, they're going to continue to do whatever they want to do or or might not even acknowledge what they've done in the past.

00;14;51;22 - 00;15;07;02
Deyane Moses
And it's just a continued preparation of hurt to the community. And so that's for me, that's definitely one of you talking about internally what you can do. And then the other is straight up, ask the communities what they want. Like I, you know, I'm both, like I said, a transplant to Baltimore. I've been here in five, six years.

00;15;07;09 - 00;15;26;03
Deyane Moses
Straight up. Ask them, you know, what do they want? What can we do and how can we build the bridge? Maybe they're not ready to talk. Maybe they do have specifics. But I definitely think talking to the community and asking them specifically what they want and how can you make amends and start from there and continue to make those comments until you papes.

00;15;26;03 - 00;15;50;00
Deyane Moses
But maybe it might not never happen in your life. Okay. Because if you think about a generally generationally like how can we make up for black people who were denied at the college in 1891, from 1894 to 1954, was going to be segregated. Like, that's generational. There's so many kinds of people that we can't even count who maybe even thought to go, but then said, Oh, I can't go, so I'm not even going to go there.

00;15;50;00 - 00;16;01;13
Deyane Moses
We don't have their names reported because it was just a thought. So I think generationally, like it's so vast, but the schools need to look continue to look within themselves, but also turn to the community for those answers.

00;16;02;05 - 00;16;08;14
Rob Lee
And I think that that distinction on the data makes a lot of sense. 1954, right? And my dad was born that year.

00;16;08;19 - 00;16;12;02
Deyane Moses
Well, so yeah, my dad was 56.

00;16;12;10 - 00;16;18;09
Rob Lee
So you start looking at that man like, you know, there's a grandparent that was around and this stuff is baked in in.

00;16;18;26 - 00;16;19;01
Deyane Moses
This.

00;16;19;03 - 00;16;30;22
Rob Lee
Country down. And there are opportunities that one can, you know, just look at like if this opportunity was there, they would have been a better chance for X, Y and Z. It doesn't mean guarantees anything.

00;16;30;25 - 00;16;31;07
Deyane Moses
Right.

00;16;31;13 - 00;16;33;11
Rob Lee
These things were legally.

00;16;33;17 - 00;16;34;02
Deyane Moses
Right know.

00;16;34;04 - 00;16;55;24
Rob Lee
Preventing things from happening. Right. And you know as a proud HBCU, HBCU alum, you know, Morgan State University shout out to them. I remember going to these different conversations about about reparations and things of the sort. And I used to always kind of listen to the argument. I'll say, you guys are just talking like, you know, what's the substantive thing?

00;16;56;03 - 00;17;14;14
Rob Lee
And only, only up until recently, I kind of got an idea. One was a comedian's bit, which I thought was really funny. He just like out his, you know, he's like, you can't just give people a lump of cash. It's just more sneaky. It seems like we're just going to buy more sneakers and that's just what's happening. He's like, But maybe make us exempt from income tax for five years, right?

00;17;14;19 - 00;17;31;19
Rob Lee
Maybe something like that. And you know, I remember, you know, post George Floyd well, performative stuff of kente cloth and soles and taking these and all of that. And some people felt like, Oh, we might actually get reparations. It's like, No, because they have to acknowledge something, right? That's a challenge. I was like.

00;17;31;26 - 00;17;32;13
Deyane Moses
Right, for.

00;17;32;24 - 00;17;38;08
Rob Lee
The second stage and this is me getting on my soapbox. The second stage would be we start to determine who's black.

00;17;38;23 - 00;17;39;04
Deyane Moses
Right?

00;17;39;08 - 00;17;40;12
Rob Lee
Who's worthy of that.

00;17;40;24 - 00;17;41;07
Deyane Moses
And.

00;17;42;00 - 00;17;51;03
Rob Lee
You know, it's a way to do it as a way to determine all of these things. Just don't want to do. It's not it's not top of mind. So base level is we're getting knowledge it.

00;17;51;16 - 00;18;16;21
Deyane Moses
You know I was us had also thought about that when you posed the question earlier and you know moneys or reduced tuition that would be an idea free tuition. But like you said, you'd have to start defining who's black and that's just. Yeah, it's just it would be ugly, right? Exactly. And then then once again, we'll probably stray too far away from what the goal and what we're trying to do.

00;18;16;21 - 00;18;29;25
Deyane Moses
So yeah, it's definitely a work in progress, but talk to the community, see what they want. I would love to see a lot of the colleges in Baltimore. All of them actually look like the city. The demographics in Baltimore. Yeah, absolutely. Having opportunities.

00;18;30;05 - 00;18;41;05
Rob Lee
Yeah. Something that's reflective. And we get to, you know, the definition game of what is equality versus equity, you know, and I think a lot of people don't know how to make those distinctions because they both start with me.

00;18;41;20 - 00;18;42;00
Deyane Moses
Right.

00;18;43;17 - 00;18;45;23
Rob Lee
Now, just going out and being black. No one's arrived.

00;18;46;03 - 00;18;49;04
Deyane Moses
You know, so that that too. So yeah.

00;18;50;13 - 00;19;23;28
Rob Lee
So I want I want to ask this question that, you know, now know, I don't know if it applies because of like really, you know, kind of covering and going through history and kind of like doing this, this documentary piece and this archival piece. What do you choose to keep out like from it, from an art standpoint? Because I know that it it may not it may be omission, but it may be I'm choosing to only do this sort of piece like, you know, you hear about artists who say, I'm only going to use Blue, I'm only going to have this one colour or the Dr. Seuss thing.

00;19;23;28 - 00;19;34;26
Rob Lee
I'm only going to use 20 words in this book and I'll figure it out. So it's a degree of difficulty thing. So how do you choose what to leave in or what to to tell you to take out in your in your work?

00;19;35;24 - 00;19;59;07
Deyane Moses
That is my heart is hardest thing because as a historian, as a storyteller, like I want you to know everything and all the details and you know, and it's so to me, I love the details because they they help you find what you the details. They speak to me and they tell me things that you tell me. Emotions and other things that you don't you wouldn't normally get from from just like a straight up quick sort of story.

00;19;59;15 - 00;20;23;26
Deyane Moses
So I have honestly, I have trouble leaving things out. I think the way I try to work around it is working like because I work in different mediums, like sometimes I help that exist trying to put on exhibitions, doing programming or maybe even working on short form platforms like Tik-Tok, social media, things like that, or Instagram. So those are kind of the ways I try to find ways to leave to not to, to disseminate information in a way that's best for the audience to consume it.

00;20;23;26 - 00;20;49;10
Deyane Moses
You can do blog formats or even like, you know, interviews and things like that. But that's one of my hardest things. I think when I thought about this question, it was the first thing that came to mind was this veteran, Leon Norris, who tried to he tried to kind of make a run before 1954. And he he sued Mike that he was the second person to sue MCA and he lost.

00;20;49;20 - 00;21;04;23
Deyane Moses
And later on when I was doing my research on him, I found out that maybe shortly after that I want to say maybe a year or two after that he got an argument with his wife and he stabbed her and he had to go to jail. And when I told when I was telling other people his story, I never found out what happened to him or what happened to her.

00;21;04;23 - 00;21;17;14
Deyane Moses
I'm sure she lived it said that she lived, but I never found out what happened to her. And when I tell people about I was not talking about a story and it kind of just ended there, they're like, okay, leave that part out. No one talks about him. I'm like, But he's a human. Like, he's that. That's just like easy.

00;21;17;14 - 00;21;33;06
Deyane Moses
I don't want to leave anything out because, I mean, I don't know what happened. Maybe comes out, he becomes a better man and he does do that thing differently. I don't know. I'm still strong. I'm still trying to find out things about Lianna, know her. So it's hard to cut things out for me, for people's lives, because that's that's their story.

00;21;33;17 - 00;21;49;11
Deyane Moses
And I think that their story deserves to be told. So I just try to find better ways to tell it for the platform. But for me, I try my best to put everything in there and it's so hard, but I try my best to summarise it. But if anything, I try to get away with it through like different platforms.

00;21;49;17 - 00;21;59;10
Rob Lee
It's like the thing where we have like filmmakers and saying, Well, here's the director's cut. It's like, I don't know if we need the four hour version. Can you can you know, what's those concessions look like, right?

00;21;59;14 - 00;22;17;18
Deyane Moses
I can say this. No. Another way to leave that I do leave things out that's not on my own accord is like specifically working with community. If the community or somebody chooses to cut things out, then I respect that and then it's cut. So for instance, I did an interview with an alumni and things got a little emotional and it was recorded.

00;22;17;18 - 00;22;36;27
Deyane Moses
But then maybe I think it was maybe a few weeks later they came back to me say, Hey, I want to embargoed this until, you know, I feel comfortable, totally understand it, you know. So those are some times that are things are cut out, but I try my best to to show and talk about everything as they are, because I feel like we got to acknowledge these things so we can move on and then move on.

00;22;36;27 - 00;22;47;17
Deyane Moses
But we so we can acknowledge them and we can confront them and then make amends within the community and start the healing process because we can't just move on, as always, move on. In order to move on, we need to start healing.

00;22;48;09 - 00;23;00;11
Rob Lee
Yeah. And I think that's that's one thing that it's never easy work per se, to have to confront something, to have to acknowledge it and try to move through it. That's that's difficult work is, is lifting weights in some ways.

00;23;00;17 - 00;23;00;25
Deyane Moses
Yeah.

00;23;01;07 - 00;23;25;05
Rob Lee
I, I always like I go back to, to around the time of the fallout, especially from a pop culture standpoint around like George Floyd and you remember or just different things. Let's edit this. We say you let that air, though. There's this weird minstrel episode or what have you to say, Oh, you chose to have blackface in here, so I don't suddenly get woke now.

00;23;25;05 - 00;23;26;02
Rob Lee
No, no, no. Sitting there.

00;23;26;17 - 00;23;26;25
Deyane Moses
Right.

00;23;27;09 - 00;23;46;12
Rob Lee
Because it existed. And you can have a disclaimer. I would I would say there, but don't start burying own your failure, your own that this was a different time and you know and have context in it. But at a time I thought this was cool, that it was comedy and this was acceptable. And, you know, that's just kind of what that is.

00;23;46;12 - 00;24;11;08
Rob Lee
And you see these these shifts now and it feels a little over sanitised. And I think about it in terms of doing this podcast, you know, if anybody wants something taken out, I'm fine with it, absolutely. But with someone like Gilligan, I cursed him. I was like, sure, I don't I don't care. Whatever feels authentic for you. But also, you know, if you're choosing every other word as an F word, that's your prerogative, right?

00;24;11;29 - 00;24;14;15
Rob Lee
Someone's consuming your content. Yeah, yeah. Do these great children books.

00;24;15;00 - 00;24;18;18
Deyane Moses
It's like, all right, you sure about that? You sure up?

00;24;18;27 - 00;24;33;26
Rob Lee
I don't know if parents are going to buy that. You know, just and I had a great guest reach out this morning and it was a funny question. And I asked him like, what's the most important word in the English language? And they said the F-word. And it was really funny. We both got a laugh out of it.

00;24;33;26 - 00;24;51;01
Rob Lee
He has me this morning. He's like, Yeah, I got a family friendly brand. Can you take that out? He's like, I thought about it and I was like, Yes, because that, you know, I'm I had only posted one episode so far this season, but it is important to kind of like, you know, work with it while trying to maintain the integrity of what you're doing.

00;24;51;12 - 00;24;51;19
Deyane Moses
Yeah.

00;24;51;22 - 00;24;55;06
Rob Lee
And authenticity like this is storytelling. This is supposed to be authentic, you know? Yeah.

00;24;55;20 - 00;25;16;01
Deyane Moses
Yeah, I totally agree with you on that. I've been thinking a lot about that with my VA and our return to social media and and the revamp of the web page and things like that and like, what's the voice out of that sound? And I went back and looked at other calls. I spoke with other social media professionals and looked at other people who are doing this kind of work telling stories.

00;25;16;01 - 00;25;32;12
Deyane Moses
I saw a story, especially in the way the language that we use, and I found myself to be too sanitised, like you said. Like I was like, you know, I wanted to be able to be more conversational and sound like I sounded like the last hour. And I communicate differently and we communicate differently. And it's a it's it's content for our community.

00;25;32;19 - 00;25;42;09
Deyane Moses
So I totally agree with you. I'm trying I'm trying my best this semester. I mean, this semester, this going forward with with language and then being intentional about it as well.

00;25;42;25 - 00;25;43;11
Rob Lee
As important.

00;25;44;12 - 00;25;46;01
Deyane Moses
For sure. Next to me.

00;25;46;01 - 00;26;09;00
Rob Lee
So I got I got two more like real questions. Okay. And then I got some rapid fire questions and no one gets away from everyone gets to rapid fire. That's just how it does. So I want to talk about photography a little bit. So from from from a photographer standpoint, what way do you like have your photography? What do you want to.

00;26;09;00 - 00;26;21;25
Rob Lee
Amy Your photography in comparison to like what mainstream journalism, you know, tries to capture any kind of miss? Blake You know, I think sometimes having a black person maybe catch captures or something.

00;26;22;02 - 00;26;22;11
Deyane Moses
And.

00;26;22;19 - 00;26;32;06
Rob Lee
It's different than someone who may not have that experience. I mean, I have that kind of cultural, like be a cultural representative representation. So tell me about that.

00;26;32;11 - 00;26;56;17
Deyane Moses
So for me in the portrait that I've been taking over the years, which Colvera really screwed me over, so I remember that the project backed up, especially this year is for me, the photographers who started off with me documenting the community. But over the over the years that I've seen and I've kept in contact with a lot of alumni, maybe some people have moved, some people are still here.

00;26;57;07 - 00;27;15;11
Deyane Moses
As I've been moving forward, thinking about it, I've been like thinking about the archive as a family because we are a family, our community. And I'm not just photographing students, I'm photographed people who are attending the university, people interact, people who are adjacent to the college. And so I'm I'm photographing the artistic community and I'm well, I've been watching them grow, you know.

00;27;15;15 - 00;27;36;28
Deyane Moses
And so for me, I'm thinking about it as a face, as a as a photo album, but also family. And I'm looking and I'm enjoying the enjoying some people. GIRL Some people have started families, you know, some people have gone on to great acclaim, you know. So all the people are teachers. Some people are, you know, the teachers of the university, teachers here in the city of Baltimore.

00;27;37;09 - 00;28;00;16
Deyane Moses
And so some people have changed career paths totally. So I'm I'm really looking at this at the community arc, having the portraits especially kind of starting to move towards what was always family. But I'm like now watching the family. The family grow, expand. I'm still capturing the community who are incoming class and people who are who are who are new to the to the to the university or to that space.

00;28;00;21 - 00;28;24;10
Deyane Moses
I say. So I've been really thinking about it like, you know, you see those watch those movies over years and then you see them, you see the characters grow. It's kind of like like that for me, but, but it's family. I'm also wanting to have the, the role of like photojournalist changes for my two other other photographers last semester was inviting some photographers into to photograph, just like you said, to see a different eye.

00;28;24;10 - 00;28;49;27
Deyane Moses
And when black people are photographing and we're actually a part of the community or if you are adjacent, there are photographers that I've had photographed who are adjacent to the community. They didn't attend the college, but they're in the art community here in Baltimore. So just seeing people in our eye and documenting us or the community from our own standpoint rather than, like you said, somebody from the outside, because I don't want it to be any type of like spectacle or, you know.

00;28;50;05 - 00;28;54;04
Rob Lee
Yes, that's important. Especially especially here, because you know how it works here, where.

00;28;54;17 - 00;28;55;01
Deyane Moses
You know.

00;28;55;11 - 00;29;01;09
Rob Lee
There have been so many goofy things and so many failures that have happened and we think touched on them a little bit.

00;29;01;23 - 00;29;02;03
Deyane Moses
Earlier.

00;29;02;14 - 00;29;22;26
Rob Lee
That, you know, the community here is not, you know, like I'm going to believe you guys. It's like now you got to do something that feels right, that feels earnest and it feels like it's committed to what the community is made up of. And people don't see that. And I've I've seen it in meetings that I've attended. It's like you guys are carpetbaggers are you guys are not about the community.

00;29;22;26 - 00;29;27;13
Rob Lee
This is, you know, performative or whatever the thing is, but it's never a positive.

00;29;28;00 - 00;29;32;11
Deyane Moses
Right? They're getting something out of it to something out of it for sure. Do the.

00;29;32;11 - 00;29;46;07
Rob Lee
Right thing. And actually, you know, you got a daily double there. You kind of actually answered the last question that I had and that that piece of. So thank you there. So I think it's time. I think it's time I think it's time for us to hit these rapid fire questions.

00;29;46;28 - 00;29;47;14
Deyane Moses
Okay.

00;29;48;02 - 00;29;52;22
Rob Lee
All right. I'll give you the preface real quick. Don't overthink them. Don't overthink it. Don't overthink.

00;29;52;22 - 00;29;57;19
Deyane Moses
It. I mean, I'm known with these small stuff, so I'm like, oh, my God, what about to say.

00;29;58;07 - 00;30;02;02
Rob Lee
I'm going to give you a softball to start off with? So, you know, you kind of get acclimated.

00;30;02;08 - 00;30;02;21
Deyane Moses
Okay.

00;30;03;08 - 00;30;04;16
Rob Lee
What is the last book you read?

00;30;05;02 - 00;30;14;06
Deyane Moses
Oh, on Africa. Sure. Actually, that's not true. It's called Genre Wrestler. It's on John Wrestler.

00;30;14;06 - 00;30;17;07
Rob Lee
What is something that gave you joy recently? Something that brought you joy.

00;30;17;27 - 00;30;18;28
Deyane Moses
My two kitty cats.

00;30;19;14 - 00;30;28;27
Rob Lee
Face like a cat. They've got a cat as well. He's had a hit. I got to feed him a bit. He's fed twice a day. He gets fed twice a day. He's. He's like the king here. Unfortunately.

00;30;29;12 - 00;30;33;03
Deyane Moses
I make homemade cat food. Dr.. Nobody.

00;30;33;03 - 00;30;37;01
Rob Lee
But yeah, he's. It's just like the equivalent of McDonald's. Since I hear.

00;30;37;07 - 00;30;37;18
Deyane Moses
Joy.

00;30;38;29 - 00;30;46;19
Rob Lee
What is your go to snack guy? You know, like, what do you like if you're a if you're just like, look, I need something. What's the thing that you're reaching for?

00;30;47;20 - 00;30;52;07
Deyane Moses
Everybody knows I love Wendy's. Nice. I love Wendy's.

00;30;52;07 - 00;30;54;25
Rob Lee
What are you getting from Wendy's? What's it was the water was the typical order.

00;30;56;17 - 00;31;03;10
Deyane Moses
I like the breakfast and the number one. No bacon that honey chicken with you on the Christina oh.

00;31;03;25 - 00;31;04;13
Rob Lee
South southern.

00;31;04;28 - 00;31;07;02
Deyane Moses
On their lap.

00;31;08;18 - 00;31;27;21
Rob Lee
I mean, I just like, like in terms of like a snack. I love cashews. I get loses of cashews. But as far as, like, kind of like a fast food situation, I mean, they're terrible people as far as like the people that work there are great. But the people that kind of run it are, yeah, they're homophobic, maybe racist.

00;31;27;28 - 00;31;29;22
Rob Lee
I like Chick-Fil-A. I do like Chick-Fil-A.

00;31;30;19 - 00;31;34;03
Deyane Moses
At the Chick-Fil-A was also homophobic.

00;31;34;08 - 00;31;35;19
Rob Lee
Oh, they're homophobic and probably racist.

00;31;35;22 - 00;31;47;27
Deyane Moses
Yes, exactly. It's like I didn't do some research on Wendy's, but I guess if you do, you're right about if I was going to say a snack. I do like strawberries. Keep the strawberries and raspberries on day.

00;31;48;15 - 00;31;51;15
Rob Lee
Yeah, berries. Berries are good. They got the good colour there too.

00;31;51;17 - 00;31;52;12
Deyane Moses
Right in.

00;31;52;12 - 00;31;53;01
Rob Lee
Smoothies.

00;31;53;07 - 00;31;54;07
Deyane Moses
Yeah. Mm.

00;31;54;27 - 00;32;17;29
Rob Lee
I mean the other fake snack when I was really heavy on like the weight lifting was definitely, you know, a protein shake, you know, where's the bananas? Because the creatine saying less so see favourite place in Baltimore like where do you like to like like Max relax restaurant park what is a place that like, you know, I really this is definitely a decent place to me.

00;32;18;08 - 00;32;37;12
Deyane Moses
Oh my favourite place to relax. Probably my back yard, my little slab of concrete back there. I think that's my that's my spot right there. It's quiet. It's, it's like by the alley and it's it's always shaded. Like where I live is very, very quiet. Surprisingly, this is in the middle of city, but it's very quiet back there.

00;32;38;02 - 00;32;54;22
Rob Lee
I'm a I'm a station north, kind of guy. I feel like I get a lot of maybe a creative ghosts that are floating around, but I get inspiration there and it's kind of like I find myself finding places to kind of hang out because I'm still trying to get the the creative Holy Ghost, if you will, is like, Hey, I'm going to get a drink.

00;32;54;23 - 00;32;57;25
Rob Lee
Oh, just so really important. Okay, I got an idea.

00;32;58;09 - 00;33;03;13
Deyane Moses
I'll go over there and see Kevin and he'll he'll help you out. And that's the energy you love. Kevin.

00;33;03;17 - 00;33;05;17
Rob Lee
Yes. This is the last one I got.

00;33;05;28 - 00;33;06;11
Deyane Moses
Oh, go.

00;33;07;28 - 00;33;23;25
Rob Lee
Outside of your art and outside of your work with the archives, what are your interests in? How do you what are your interests? How do you like spending your leftover time? We none of us have enough time. But in those few moments, you know, that are available, what do you like to spend your time doing?

00;33;24;08 - 00;33;45;15
Deyane Moses
I like spending I, but my favourite thing to do is spending time with my brother and my nephew and we hang out all the time. We go fishing together, we go, we drive around, we go Larry Caverns. I just love spending time with my my brother and my nephew. My nephew reminds me of my brothers older than me, but my nephew reminds me of my brother when we were young.

00;33;45;25 - 00;34;01;14
Deyane Moses
It other's me. He treats young my brother all the time. So I just love him, my nephew. And if I'm not with them, I do also like the roller blade might see me on like Maryland, like rollerblading down the bike path. So yeah, I love to roller blade.

00;34;01;29 - 00;34;07;02
Rob Lee
Try not to get caught over there like Joe Square does. As I move.

00;34;07;02 - 00;34;10;15
Deyane Moses
That's my attorney. I usually go that way or maybe a little bit farther and then I come back now.

00;34;11;05 - 00;34;19;05
Rob Lee
Yeah, that was I think I was there like allows it and I was at Joe squarely last week and I was like, Yeah, I was going to burger and fries would be great.

00;34;19;20 - 00;34;24;07
Deyane Moses
Yeah, I've been there and we haven't been there like maybe like two months, but yeah, like Joe squared. Yeah.

00;34;24;18 - 00;34;29;07
Rob Lee
So that's pretty much it. So I want to thank you for coming on to this podcast and.

00;34;30;04 - 00;34;30;22
Deyane Moses
I mean.

00;34;30;25 - 00;34;39;08
Rob Lee
Absolutely. And I want to invite you to tell a fine folks, you know, anything you feel like we've missed and tell them where to check you out in your work.

00;34;40;29 - 00;35;00;23
Deyane Moses
I would say the one thing that I would like to say about am I be and what I'm trying to do with like especially the future is also is is thinking about the idea of Maryland's to black calves archives expanding outside of Micah there are a lot of artists and events and things like that that is just like a blip in the in the story.

00;35;00;23 - 00;35;19;15
Deyane Moses
You know, these people went on to do great things and some not so great things, but also they can tie back into the institution. So a lot of people say this is all only about Mike. I'm like, No, Mike, that was just one situation or one. Maybe they got in, maybe they didn't get in, maybe they worked here, but they have affected the lives of the art world.

00;35;19;15 - 00;35;49;19
Deyane Moses
They haven't affected life in Baltimore. They've affected life in Africa. So yeah, I just want to expand that. The idea that the archive is not only for and about Micah, but it's also for the city and for the community here in Baltimore and outside, but definitely here in the city of Baltimore. And they can find me relaunching the website beginning of September, coming back to social media with new research, new facts, new partnerships, lots of programming.

00;35;49;19 - 00;36;03;21
Deyane Moses
And definitely, if you see me out on the street with a camera, come and get your picture. Take it so we can add you to the archive and also some oral histories coming up in the future too. So yeah, keep your eye out and your ears to the streets for us because we all hear.

00;36;04;21 - 00;36;14;29
Rob Lee
More great things coming soon, folks. So there you have it. I want to again thank Diane Moses for coming on to the podcast. And I'm Rob saying that there is art community.

00;36;15;08 - 00;36;15;21
Deyane Moses
And.

00;36;15;23 - 00;36;31;28
Rob Lee
Archives in and around Baltimore. He's got a look for.

Creators and Guests

Rob Lee
Host
Rob Lee
The Truth In This Art is an interview series featuring artists, entrepreneurs and tastemakers in & around Baltimore.
Deyane Moses
Guest
Deyane Moses
a veteran, artist, activist, and curator living in Baltimore, MD
Deyane Moses discusses her work in archiving and preserving Black history
Broadcast by