The Artistic Journey of Osaretin Ugiagbe: Identity, Isolation, and Integrity

00;00;10;08 - 00;00;41;20
Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth in this art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for tuning into my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture and community. Today, I am thrilled to welcome my next guest who is a visionary. Having navigated the globe with a paintbrush in hand, transforming memories and culture into breathtaking visual narratives. Born in a vibrant city of Lagos and having honed his skills at the prestigious Royal College of Art in London, our guest merges the personal with the universal in every stroke.

00;00;41;27 - 00;01;07;28
Rob Lee
His unique approach to concealing faces in his artwork invites viewers into a dialog with the unseen, challenging us to see beyond the surface. Please welcome Osaretin Ugiagbe. And to do this slightly different and give the guest the space and the opportunity to introduce themselves. So, if you will, you know, I'm going to building up all of the excitement, all of the sort of like unveiling the curtain.

00;01;08;07 - 00;01;09;06
Rob Lee
Could you introduce yourself?

00;01;09;27 - 00;01;38;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes. I'm a certain way. Nigerian born US American, which a lot of people don't even actually know this. But I like to keep things ambiguous, you know, for that reason. So I did move to New York when I was 16. My parents, when my dad first immigrated to New York City in 1996, said I was ten at the time and like six years later, we joined him.

00;01;39;12 - 00;02;03;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So it was my so my mother and five kids. So we almost to the Bronx. Yes. So I'm the eldest. I mean, this is the most candid. So I've given, you know, usually I don't give access to my personal life, but I think it's it's not wrong with, you know, setting the record straight sometimes, you know, just hear it from the horse's mouth.

00;02;04;04 - 00;02;21;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So we did move to the Bronx. And at 16, I was out of high school. So the initial plan was to repeat high school. So that worked against a better college. But somehow we skipped that and I went straight to a community college. So yeah.

00;02;21;03 - 00;02;24;23
Rob Lee
So, you know, coming coming from. So you said Nigerian.

00;02;25;02 - 00;02;27;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes, I am Nigerian, actually. Yes.

00;02;27;15 - 00;02;28;28
Rob Lee
And then to the Bronx.

00;02;29;09 - 00;02;30;19
Osaretin Ugiagbe
To the Bronx. But you go.

00;02;30;29 - 00;02;53;16
Rob Lee
So, you know, those are that's a that's a different situation. So let's talk a little bit about some of those, like early years in those formative years as it relates to like what was it like growing up from the sort of like our artistic bent? And I say that because a lot of times those is these sort of touch points early, early on where you might see something creative.

00;02;53;16 - 00;03;20;09
Rob Lee
You know, like New York obviously has a lot of different stuff there, a lot of different cultures, a lot of different people coming together, street art, things of that nature, museums. So is there anything that, you know, growing up that in or even coming from your your family growing up, that you're like, all right. That's one of those earliest points where I just recognized something creative, something art that shows up in what you're doing these days.

00;03;21;02 - 00;03;46;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
To be honest, there was no artistic intention, to be honest, from the very beginning. As a kid, I loved computers so much. Yes. You know, you know, I was one of the first kids to have a CPU in Lagos at this time. And I remember, you know, downloading a bunch of games because I was really into games at this time.

00;03;47;12 - 00;04;07;11
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I thought I would, you know, when I moved to America that I would just pursue computer science, something like this. So. So to answer your question, there was no I had no intention of being an artist, you know. You know, my sister would go, Oh, you know, you did something, you know, well, when we were kids and something like this.

00;04;07;11 - 00;04;31;04
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I go, No way. I don't remember doing anything at all, no intention. And it's quite embarrassing that this, you know, for me to say this because, you know, I wasn't even sure Pablo Picasso was. That's how I was when it comes to the arts, you know. But it all changed when I did move to to New York in the Bronx, I had to take painting as an elective.

00;04;32;13 - 00;05;03;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
With this guy is Professor Ian Charles Scott. He's a Scottish professor, you know, so I remember clearly, actually quite vividly thinking of my initial reaction when I was in his class and I got into his class and I said, What's this? You know, because it's painted. So yeah. So that's literally how I kind of like, you know, find myself into this realm of being a creative, you know?

00;05;04;01 - 00;05;36;07
Rob Lee
So and then I'm definitely going to be asking this later because you've already, as I was, I was telling you before we got started on to be right in these rapid fire questions. You've got three new ones, my man. So be prepared for those, but well, not prepare because they were just out of the blue. But so give it give the listeners who who might not be might not be aware of, you know, what your art is about, what your work is about, sort of the things that you're pursuing with within your work.

00;05;36;07 - 00;06;12;19
Osaretin Ugiagbe
That's a great question because I think a lot of time is autobiographical. You know, I'm in Baltimore at the moment. You know, I've lived in major cities, you know, but I remember being in the Bronx and have a thing about arts. And so for me, it was a necessity. You know, being a teenager in the Bronx. Oh, it's literally you know, it's a bit of a cliche now when you hear people say these things are, you know, odd, so maybe it's music or something like this saved them.

00;06;12;19 - 00;06;37;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It did get me out of trouble. You know, Ian, you know, this professor became a mentor of mine. And then I made I did I didn't make I made friends with a few artists. I mean, these are quote unquote artists because they did go to art school. I did it you know, I was in this commuter college. I was in for a think, if I'm not mistaken, computer information system or something like this or information technology.

00;06;37;08 - 00;07;05;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I think that that's what it's called back then. So commute to college, very small, you know. But I was surrounded by artists like friends who really go to a really good art schools, you know, but for me, it was a necessity when things were tough with things were hard personally, you know, you know, painting was was literally what I had now.

00;07;06;05 - 00;07;27;23
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I was able to really put a lot of the, you know, the demons, I guess that one could say on canvas. So it was really a necessity. There was nothing really it was a luxury at all of just saying, hey, there's a guy who wants to express themselves, you know? And I think if you look at the work, sometimes you could you could see that, you know.

00;07;28;14 - 00;07;55;01
Rob Lee
That you touched on one of those things that definitely I relate to from in doing this and doing this as long we were around the same age. So we have these these different things that present themselves and the keep you out of trouble or being able to your whatever your creative pursuit is. You with your work, me with doing this and I joke about it like this is my most stable relationship and doing this for 15 years or what have you.

00;07;55;01 - 00;08;14;11
Rob Lee
And you know, I've done different types of podcast voice and, you know, one that I did that no longer is around, but I may go back to it. My brother's like one of my, my bigger fans that he listens to and it is almost like a journal in some ways, or a diary. And he's like, Yeah, you were you were real, real spicy on that one.

00;08;14;11 - 00;08;40;18
Rob Lee
You wrote that one, or you were really trying to process something and almost going back and it and oh, no, it has you can see those different stages during a maturation of being someone that started at 24. So yes, being an idiot at 24 to like an idiot at 39, I guess once going through that whole that whole matriculation and doing it in a way that's creative.

00;08;40;18 - 00;08;57;14
Rob Lee
It's not, you know, just getting on and just musing, but really getting on, putting the mic on. It's like, What am I thinking about today? What do I want to, you know, I do a movie review podcast. So even that what am I revisiting with this context being an older an adult now versus someone as a young adult.

00;08;57;24 - 00;09;11;06
Rob Lee
So having that that time stamp it, having the work kind of like progress and you know, and with the hope of getting better or being more interesting or having these different types of dialogs with that time, it's is really interesting.

00;09;11;22 - 00;09;13;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes, indeed.

00;09;14;19 - 00;09;42;10
Rob Lee
So I see in this this background of yours and this lovely background of yours all College of Art. So talk a bit about that period and, you know, sort of this, you know, further development because you touch on the branch, you touch on and you had this this this one instructor to talk about that that period in kind of like because even the computer science thing is still blowing my mind a little big.

00;09;42;11 - 00;09;46;08
Rob Lee
That's no, I'm looking on the site and like how do those things go together?

00;09;46;08 - 00;10;10;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Right, exactly. You know, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the story is it's quite not like I'm not sure if I could say it's linear, you know, but it seems to actually go around. So I came out of, you know, those committed college that I went to Logan University to actually pursue computer science, you know, but I've taken a lot of art classes with Ian.

00;10;12;04 - 00;10;39;14
Osaretin Ugiagbe
When I say enough, I mean just two classes within, you know, he's a magic realist. You know, you can look at my work is not realistic about you know, I mean I guess technically you could, you know, what's what's a realist, you know, but that gets into technical. But if you look at my work, it's not magic realist meaning I actually didn't take after Ian, you know, I sort of found my own way, find my own voice, you know, to express myself.

00;10;39;21 - 00;11;07;11
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So when I got to Long University, I remember really feeling passionate because I've had a bit of experience, you know, with Ian and I wanted to take more classes. So, you know, so I signed up for another painting class and the instructor, if I remember correctly, was so Lee was this Korean professor, you know? And he was more like, you know, it was like, call me.

00;11;07;11 - 00;11;32;20
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I remember Julie said, call me song this leads to popular is every every I mean according to him he would say lots of Koreans are just known to be Lisa called me song you know and what he did is I took the class with him he did encourage, you know, my pursuing art. You know, he would you know, I remember I made a painting of this class and he goes, wow.

00;11;32;20 - 00;11;54;28
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, he said he said to me, it's obvious that you seem to be into this stuff, into painting, but it's also obvious that you don't know a lot about painting. So his recommendation I remember then was for me to look up to other artist I remember. And he also got me, he introduced me to the Armory Show.

00;11;54;28 - 00;12;22;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
This is a show of international artists that happens. I think it's not every year. I think it's every year. And he said, Just get yourself reacquainted with some of the best artists. So that's exactly what I did in his class, you know. And I got out of there and, you know, I hit the real world now. So I live Long Island, very fancy school, no private, quiet and green and lush.

00;12;23;03 - 00;12;50;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I left that environment. I went right back to the Bronx, you know, and this was in 2008. So this was in 2009. So I came out of I graduate from Long Island 2009. And if you remember, remember correctly, it was during the which call it was during the recession. Yeah. Yeah. So so I was yes I was back in an a South Bronx.

00;12;50;14 - 00;13;14;22
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, I remember I volunteered myself into the hospital thinking, you know, you know, if if I could get a job with something like this, you know, but I still I still painted. I returned back to In Kids where I worked and I was volunteering, was literally close to the community college I attended. So I would volunteer and then went back to Indians class and assisted in this class of students.

00;13;14;28 - 00;13;58;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And that way it would certainly give me like a little room in the back of the studio to just go there and just paint. So I would use leftover canvases to just really just express myself, you know, and then again would also take me to Chelsea and just a ton of just looking down into Manhattan. You know, we went everywhere any museum could think of, gallery to think of, you know, we went there, you know, I was just really learning about, you know, the genres and the different kind of artists that what I'm into, what I'm not into, you know, just complete immersion, you know, of of myself into the art world.

00;13;59;13 - 00;14;43;07
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So and even with all this, I wasn't really thinking of really pursuing this, to be honest. You know, I just kept thinking, how would I survive? Because I've just gotten out of college. You know, I'm supposed to be this computer scientist, you know, and it wasn't making the big bucks and none of this was happening. So I was actually in reality, I was volunteering in a South Bronx, you know, and trying to find my way into the you know, into making something something substantial for myself, you know, and then and then Ian, you know, were telling me, if I truly want to do this, I may have to go back to art school or try

00;14;43;07 - 00;15;06;04
Osaretin Ugiagbe
to place art school there. Right. And taken seriously, you know, so on this trajectory, it's just a normal life. I had a girlfriend at the time and it was, you know, get married and just the regular life, you know. And when that fell through, you know, I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, you know, what am I going to do now?

00;15;06;16 - 00;15;28;28
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know? And prior to that, full and true, I did I did apply to Yale, you know, and the reason I applied to Yale at the time, it was due to a Richard Sarah interview. I remember watching Charlie Rose and he he interviewed his artist college. Sarah, he's a sculptor. He just died, actually, I think last week. So, you know.

00;15;28;28 - 00;15;53;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yeah. So I'm fortunate and doing this interview Sarah had a literature undergrad, you know, he said and he said to talk to Charlie Rose that he just applied. He sent a few drawings to Yale and I got in with a few drawings. And his undergrad is literature. So I'm thinking, this is not painting really. You know, this is quite different, you know.

00;15;53;21 - 00;16;15;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I said, so it's possible then that I could do the same philosophy. You know, when you complete ignorance, you can do anything, right? There's no one's stopping you, you know. So what I did is I copied him literally. So I applied to just one school. It was Yale, so I did the Yale of Boston. So I sent in a few hat drawings.

00;16;15;00 - 00;16;37;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
This time around it was small heads, not then, not an exaggerated at all. This tiny six foot by 20 inches heads. You know, I sent a bunch of them to Yale. But you believe at Yale said yes. I think it's funny because I was looking there. I was just looking at the email now this year, I was looking backwards, you know, how far I've come.

00;16;37;10 - 00;17;04;07
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I looked at acceptance. It was like, Yeah, come down, come down, you know? And then I got to I got to New Haven and then it was actually me and an ex-girlfriend. And I got there and I brought up the paintings, like put them on the wall. And the instructors, I remember they looked at IDs and they looked at me and looked at it.

00;17;04;07 - 00;17;29;29
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Did you make this? And I go, Yes. And it was weird because I could see a part of them not believing that's it, that I would make a work like this or whatever the case may be, is a bit of us. They were quite skeptical. And then the next question was like next when they asked me was, So tell me about Nigeria.

00;17;29;29 - 00;17;50;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I really did. I'm not going to lie. I was pissed off. I go, These are a bunch of heads. I mean, you can find Nigeria in them. Then one for you. Tell me about Nigeria. That was sort of my attitude. You know, it gives you a heads, you know, it's I am 19 already at this point. And I think I need I need to get this clear.

00;17;50;00 - 00;18;13;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, in America, this seems to be this idea that if one doesn't want to go that route, it's like you're you're denying something, you know? I mean, an ancient part of me, it's there. Absolutely. I can't I cannot I cannot I cannot make much of emphasis on that enough. You know, I can't make enough of it. It's there, you know.

00;18;13;17 - 00;18;35;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
But what the work is, is what the work is. I mean, these these heads that I sense, you know, they were quite strong. You know, they were quite I made them at a very dark time. So I was just a little bit disappointed that that was to be an ax about the work itself. But it was more about what seem interesting to these interviews.

00;18;35;26 - 00;18;52;15
Rob Lee
Is it's one of these things where and I see that in doing this and I see that and you know, some of the folks that I have on a lot of a lot of the folks that look like you and I that I have on of how can we be packaged in a certain way? Yes, you achieve a certain goal.

00;18;52;15 - 00;19;09;18
Rob Lee
And, you know, I've I've heard many things like I'm from Baltimore, the Baltimore guy. He goes guy, this black guy, all of this. And it's just like, I don't know if this is a black, black enough or you don't like a podcast or you don't sound like you're from Baltimore. I was like, What does any of that mean?

00;19;09;24 - 00;19;10;25
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Mean exactly.

00;19;11;06 - 00;19;21;14
Rob Lee
It. Then it's this notion of folks that are supposed to be representative of sort of what that looks like. Oh, this is this is African art. This is black. This is this is that.

00;19;21;27 - 00;19;23;13
Speaker 4
And I'm like, who?

00;19;23;14 - 00;19;26;18
Rob Lee
Who's choosing that? Yes. In that decision.

00;19;27;10 - 00;19;52;29
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes. You know, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, if that's what the artist is about, then fine. But it's one thing to have an artist show you something and for you to just completely, completely disregarded and impose a view on them. I just thought it was I just thought it was quite uncalled for, you know. So anyway, I didn't I mean, I didn't get a place.

00;19;52;29 - 00;20;11;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I put it that way, you know. And so I left, I remember, you know, so I left New Haven. So in my mind, I remember thinking, I mean, if I got an interview on a first try in just one school, it means I must be doing something. So screw art school, you know, I'm going to go back to my regular.

00;20;11;18 - 00;20;33;22
Osaretin Ugiagbe
This is, you know, before I actually, you know, so my relationship fizzled out with this ex-girlfriend of mine. So I just remember saying to myself, I'm going to go back to my regular life, go back to my job. Just do the art on the side as I've somehow managed, managed to be able to do, you know, until, you know, life happens again.

00;20;33;22 - 00;20;54;02
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And this time around, you know, I mean, I feel like I'm going back and forth as far as timeline. So it really should come to an end. And that's what I just decided to just fully go for what I wanted to do, which is art. So I wasn't as arrogant as I was initially. I've just applied to one school, so I applied so bunch this time around so I could talk skills.

00;20;54;11 - 00;20;57;18
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I got into to Yale, did not accept that this time around.

00;20;58;29 - 00;20;59;23
Speaker 4
Passively what.

00;21;00;09 - 00;21;31;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Exactly. So so I got into Parsons, the new school, which is in New York, and I go into the Royal College. The Royal College. I had no idea what that school was about. Nothing. No. And this is the first time I'm actually talking about this. I had no idea what the school was about, Ian. I mean, this this Scottish dude didn't even say much about it, but he did say, you know, I mean, imagine you've gone through World College, you know, but then I looked it up and it happened to be that that's America and you're given access.

00;21;31;17 - 00;21;55;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, it's it's one of the school accepted by the federal government. It's actually which I don't think a lot of Americans are aware of this. So it would just be like going to that American school. Yeah. So, so I, so I applied, you know, and then I remember it so vividly. I had no friends. I don't know if I could mention his name, but he did apply he did apply to Yale.

00;21;55;18 - 00;22;12;18
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And, you know, during this time, a bunch of us was applying to school. No one was telling me. And I just hung up this dude and tell me anything at all about. So until I think it was an Instagram message. No, sorry. A Facebook message that he got accepted and I saw my results. I was like, oh, I didn't get accepted.

00;22;12;22 - 00;22;15;20
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And he was going to Yale. I was like, Oh, my God, it's just stole my.

00;22;15;20 - 00;22;18;13
Speaker 4
Dream.

00;22;18;13 - 00;22;46;01
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know? And for me at this during this time, I'm 31. So it was it was a do or die. It's either now or never, you know. So anyway, you know, March, I, I got the news. I remember going to, going into, into my office because I worked for the city of New York in the South Bronx, and I logged in.

00;22;46;06 - 00;23;08;05
Osaretin Ugiagbe
That's what that's sort of my routine. You're not supposed to do this, but I did. Anyway, you log into your personal email. I remember seeing that it was really seen a result that I got into Parsons lines. I was like, Oh my God. It was like, what happened? Like all these like like, oh man, I just got into art school or something like this and I'm like, oh my.

00;23;08;05 - 00;23;19;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes, we know, you know, this is not a place for you, you know, because in this office, actually at this time, I was making photograph, so I used to photograph my colleagues in the office.

00;23;19;26 - 00;23;20;00
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00;23;20;07 - 00;23;27;09
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Whenever we have this Friday get together, I'll make photographs, I'll photograph the whole department, and then I'll put the pictures on the wall.

00;23;27;17 - 00;23;28;05
Speaker 4
Yes. It was.

00;23;28;05 - 00;23;45;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Always people. They'd been saying, oh, my God, you know, great photographer, great great artist and blah, blah, blah, you know, and the woman, you know, I got this this notice that I've gone into art school, which we knew it's, you know, you don't belong here. You know, we knew it. And I said, Hey, guys, you know, but I'm just waiting for one.

00;23;46;07 - 00;24;05;26
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I like this offer. But, you know, maybe it's it would be a lot more exciting if I could get the one in London. This is I didn't say it out loud like screams in my head. I'm just waiting for one. So I this was March 15th, just 15th of March and the second on my birthday. So I got the news on the 15th that I go into the new school.

00;24;06;08 - 00;24;15;26
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So the next day was a Friday and I remember it so vividly. It was a six day. It was my birthday. Same thing happened, came into the office, logged in and.

00;24;16;05 - 00;24;16;17
Speaker 4
Boom.

00;24;18;15 - 00;24;39;19
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Got into Royal College. I screamed in office and was like, Oh my good. What happened now is like I got into the Royal College and I and again, I don't know anything about this school. I just like the idea because I've been the fun, to be honest, you know, I've just broken up. I'm really down thinking that this is a last minute.

00;24;39;26 - 00;25;02;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
He even has a plan B. I've booked a flight to Nigeria because I've got I've gotten really heavily into photography during this time. I said, you know what, if any of the schools, if I don't get in, I'll just go to Nigeria, make photographs that I've always wanted to make about something that has to do with how I grew up and sort of connect them to the Bronx, you know?

00;25;02;17 - 00;25;27;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So that was my plan B. So, you know, come Friday, here I am getting the news that I've got into the Royal College in London. And I was like, Oh my God. The next day I'm literally on a plane with my dad. And we had it's Nigeria, it's Lagos. You know, it was like and in a way, you know, like Parsons was like, we are going to give you a ton of money and scholarship.

00;25;27;12 - 00;25;34;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And we've got we've got connections to the Whitney Museum and this. And they've the records were like, oh, here's the conditional offer.

00;25;34;15 - 00;25;36;10
Speaker 4
But it's like.

00;25;36;23 - 00;25;37;18
Rob Lee
Do you accept.

00;25;38;26 - 00;25;39;02
Speaker 4
It.

00;25;40;00 - 00;26;06;26
Osaretin Ugiagbe
As a condition, though? You've got two weeks to like, you know, make a deposit and all these things. And I'm going to be a major. It's I always freak about, you know, so I traveled, you know, it was, mind you, politically exceptional that we're on a plane, you know. And the whole time I was in Lagos, that mixture of excitement and and fear, you know, so I really got down into what I came to Nigeria for to make these photographs.

00;26;07;04 - 00;26;27;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I, I really got into it also thinking how am I going to come up with $2,000 and paid a deposit? Because recall just telling me, you know, this is not a complete guarantee. So I sort of, you know, the whole time was and, you know, that whole image I was able to put it into making a body of work that touches on how I grew up, you know, in Lagos.

00;26;27;03 - 00;27;00;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, I always wanted to make images that I could sort of show my American friends because the work I do are quite personal. I mean, people I'm usually thinking about. So my friends, you know, I, I seriously think friendship because their friendship a very so part of my practice of who I am, you know. So I remember thinking about my friends in the Bronx at the time and folks I grew up, I grew up with in Nigeria and wanted to show them what it was like, that fine line of being in America.

00;27;00;10 - 00;27;22;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
But also it's not heaven, you know, because, you know, there's this theory that, you know, it's everything is there. So anyway, as I made the photographs, I came back to New York. I sort of I sort of I was able to make the deposit, you know, get that true. And then at this time, I was with the Bronx, and so I used to hang out.

00;27;22;10 - 00;27;39;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, I was hanging out there a whole lot. You know, we formed a collective, you know, the Bronx Football League, you know, a bunch of photographers in the Bronx. You know, there's so much going on. I came back and I was just looking at the images I made of Nigeria and the founder of the Bronx Documented Center.

00;27;39;00 - 00;27;58;11
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So me looking at them, you know, and that's sort of how he likes the Long Island story and that's sort of how, you know, he looked at the photographs and go, oh, my God, you just made this. I said, yes, it's like I'm in, you know, I wouldn't mind showing this, you know, and I said to myself, said, Are you serious?

00;27;58;11 - 00;28;39;09
Osaretin Ugiagbe
But yeah. So we connected those images with something I've done early on in the Bronx, which kind of juxtaposed them and it blew up, you know, so everything was happening at the same time. And I am supposedly got just got into two art schools. And then there's this photograph that said that I got a made that's you know that now we have on a show we are having a show with and and you know and it blew up, you know, the whole of New York City, you know, a major publication picked it up, The New York Times, Financial Times.

00;28;39;27 - 00;28;57;01
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I was like The Financial Times. What's the what's what's the Financial Times? You know? And it was, you know, trying to help up the Bronx Documentary Center, you know. And he has a show really massive and something. So I'm thinking it's put the spotlight on me since I'm thinking how am I going to get myself to London now?

00;28;57;10 - 00;29;20;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So so that happened. But it was a super success, you know, and the photographers, the photography projects, you know, was widely published, you know, and I came back to Baltimore. I came to Baltimore to see my sister's academy for college. I said, Look, I'm I'll be leaving for London. I made photographs also of Baltimore just so we had all the things we happened all that same time.

00;29;21;03 - 00;29;38;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I spent a good a good, solid three days making photographs in Baltimore. Came back to New York and I of of I went, you know, to London, you know. So yeah, that's sort of how I, you know, you can see how I made my way to London so. Yeah.

00;29;39;06 - 00;30;15;00
Rob Lee
No, that's that's great. And here's the thing. Well, have you talked about the winding nature of it? Right. And, you know, one comment I want to make and then one thing I'll say, you kind of knocked out two other questions that I had. And so you're you're making my job easy is appreciate it then the other thing going back to one of the notes that you one of the things you said and I definitely want to dove into sort of current work and things of that of that sort, but this notion of friendship, that's the thing that really so, you know, I'm a I'm a movie gaming nerd.

00;30;15;00 - 00;30;29;26
Rob Lee
I'm a I'm a movie I heard and I watched a lot of a lot of television as well. And everything I say is almost a pop culture reference and, you know, sort of watching the show years back, Hannibal, that based on the whole Silence of the Lambs thing, right?

00;30;29;26 - 00;30;30;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;30;30;20 - 00;30;54;10
Rob Lee
And there's a quote in it that Hannibal says to grant, and he says, Friendship is a rare gift. And that's a thing that stuck with me. And it's something that I find that is so rare, is so precious, is to be taken seriously. And I don't know, I've always thought that. But in hearing it in that that context and watching it is something I'm not expecting it in, and I'm like, Oh, no, no, no, no.

00;30;54;22 - 00;30;58;12
Rob Lee
There are some people that say, Oh, yeah, we're friends. It's like, Oh, we are all right.

00;30;58;12 - 00;30;58;24
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00;30;59;05 - 00;31;06;17
Rob Lee
There are other folks is like, man, you know, we might be able to be friends one day. You know, it's nothing. You know, I just don't drop, you know, the.

00;31;06;29 - 00;31;07;21
Speaker 4
Yes, yes.

00;31;07;24 - 00;31;09;09
Rob Lee
Friendship draws like that, you know?

00;31;09;19 - 00;31;46;11
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes, yes. No, no. Yeah. Because because I mean, the reason I actually make that reference is because I've had to terminate a ton of, you know, quote unquote, friendship. And it ends. And I hate to say it really hurts, you know, you know, because I'm saying all this to say as a sort of assumption that that's made when people think you've sort of crossed over or they think you've made it because I know you, I actually your first question was something about something of of, you know, if I if I recall correctly, it was like, so what is it like to have made it across something like this?

00;31;46;11 - 00;31;48;26
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I go, made what, you know, I mean, what.

00;31;48;26 - 00;31;49;05
Speaker 4
Happened.

00;31;50;04 - 00;32;08;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And what happened is, you know, tell my girlfriend about that and she goes, isn't it funny? I think that's exactly I mean, what success rate, you know, because maybe right. That you know it's the fact that I'm able to, you know, just make the world right have it be almost a full time thing. Maybe that is success, right?

00;32;08;10 - 00;32;36;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Or maybe it's the fact that I've been able to show, you know, have shows that are in some spaces that's made me, you know, quote unquote, successful, you know. But to me, I'm just still this guy, you know, who's still trying to figure it out, you know, who still sort of finding new ways to to tell automate work or to put certain feelings, thoughts.

00;32;36;15 - 00;33;11;02
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You're right. You know, so it's again, you know, it's that sort of thing where you it's a balancing act, you know, sent the same symptoms. So with friendship, right, it's like and so my friends, I noticed the with I left the Bronx and I was in London and everything just sort of just lots of assumptions like, oh, you know, and I mean, the typical things that come with perceived success, you know, it's almost feels like no one no one gets to check on you now because your, you know, it's like is because the assumption is, oh, you're fine and you've made it and I and I'm not going to lie.

00;33;11;02 - 00;33;33;14
Osaretin Ugiagbe
That pissed me off for a long time. I was even doing my time in London. I was in a very dark place. The work I did in London, we all thought No colors went out of the world. It was nothing colorful, really, you know, because I was I think deep down it was a part of me that was trying to reconcile that feeling, you know, of sort of isolated, but also having to put up the front that I'm fine.

00;33;33;25 - 00;33;59;19
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I mean, how else would I, you know, survive in a foreign land, you know? So there was a lot of that and the world sort of got darker, you know, and and yeah, and I had to really, really reconcile that feeling, you know, also with the with the audience in a sense, you know, with what they had said, like if I didn't notice the what change.

00;33;59;19 - 00;34;24;28
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So yeah, so friendship for sure was a key to to that, you know, because I lost a lot of friends, you know, during that time, you know, and now much to make a new, you know, a sort of make up. But it's it's it's a lot more difficult now, you know, so, yeah.

00;34;25;06 - 00;34;46;12
Rob Lee
I'll share this with you. I don't I don't know if you watch a lot of movies or what have you, but again, it's a movie thing. I'm I watch more movies, right. And, you know, friends that I've had for a long time in doing this as this podcast has ascended and it's taken, you know, whatever effort and time and energy, you know, lost like three major friends.

00;34;46;12 - 00;34;49;08
Rob Lee
I'm talking about decade's worth of, like, friendship.

00;34;49;17 - 00;34;50;02
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;34;50;17 - 00;35;06;12
Rob Lee
Yeah. Almost in succession. Yeah. I started re identify what do I value and and I'm like because my thing is, I don't know if you do this, but my thing is, oh, it's me lately and then I'll, I'll assess that. And then when I realized like now I don't know if it was.

00;35;06;12 - 00;35;07;20
Speaker 4
And then.

00;35;07;20 - 00;35;29;11
Rob Lee
It's just like but it's presented like I'm, I'm the jerk or even yes. Even in this. Like since you're you're I'll be transparent in the same way where, you know, I do this and it's definitely a community focus and it's definitely it's like having folks share their story authentic. They want to share it. Yes. And a lot of times that love doesn't feel like it's there.

00;35;29;16 - 00;35;45;14
Rob Lee
I'm not looking for the big it's. I'll share this with you when you got that notice like on your the day before your birthday. On your birthday. About the acceptance. Yeah. The funding that I got for the season I got on my birthday this year. Look at that and I was like, look at that. We got it.

00;35;45;26 - 00;35;47;15
Speaker 4
Yeah. But it's still.

00;35;47;15 - 00;35;54;06
Rob Lee
That sort of feeling of not necessarily feeling ostracized, but not feeling. I'm taking serious.

00;35;54;14 - 00;35;54;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;35;55;08 - 00;36;08;05
Rob Lee
I did. A period recently is just wrapping of I'm going to be a recluse. The thing that I'm doing is community related work and I'm extracting myself out of the community because it was too many weird things happening.

00;36;08;05 - 00;36;08;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;36;09;00 - 00;36;13;00
Rob Lee
And it's just like presenting friendship. Oh, that's not really friendship.

00;36;13;00 - 00;36;13;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Exactly. Yeah.

00;36;13;29 - 00;36;15;03
Rob Lee
Did you get somebody who said no?

00;36;15;14 - 00;36;36;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. No, it's really you know, I could see I could see how, you know, people how I could get really dark. Right. You know, you know, because I even to this day, I do have conversation my girlfriend and we talk about and I'm always trying to reevaluate, you know, my stance, like, is it me?

00;36;36;08 - 00;36;57;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It's got to be me, you know, am I the jerk? You know? So to exact what you just said, you know, is it me? What's going on? You know, and then having, you know, you know, then having to come to the conclusion that maybe it's not me, I don't know, you know, but it's a very it's a very sweet in place to be, you know.

00;36;57;21 - 00;37;27;02
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And how does one go about, you know, because because what I what I learned was even the more you try to be a lot more relatable, it just seem like you would sort of feels like you are playing on people's intelligence of like this. You know, it feels like, you know, how dare you, you know, humble brag or that sort of thing.

00;37;28;00 - 00;37;42;04
Rob Lee
It's a mix of a few different things that I think happens. It's the it's almost the people pleasing thing that is that it is sort of the well, let me give them what I think they want. And because you're doing that, you're being authentic.

00;37;42;12 - 00;37;43;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
That's exactly.

00;37;43;12 - 00;38;03;15
Rob Lee
That. Folks can see that. And yes, you know, since you're you're based in you're based in Baltimore now. Right. So you're you're probably seeing that same sort of vibe here. And I would imagine the same thing in some of the the these cities and these communities that the moment when something feels inauthentic that people people don't jam with it.

00;38;03;28 - 00;38;29;05
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I don't know, 100%, you know, and I get that, you know, because I know being in the Bronx and at one time the Bronx was just as hotspots and we were so protective, you know of it, I get it, you know, and I and I've had enough life experience to see it, to see true, even to the point where, you know, even I you know, I've been in Baltimore since 2020, since coming back from actually from the U.K. even.

00;38;29;05 - 00;39;04;05
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It's still hard for me to actually say that about Baltimore, right? Because obviously it's a part of me that's very self aware that, you know, you know, I've I've got to give it a lot more time. You know, I can't just come to a new space. And then I did, you know, and again, it's where it gets really complicated because I did something by coming in with open arms of just trying to meet people and make friends, like you said, you know, and also, you know, it all ties to my past night at my expense, actually, in America of this feeling, of this perception that I do not sense it because I don't seem to

00;39;04;05 - 00;39;26;28
Osaretin Ugiagbe
fit the mold. And I guess it's you know, and I know even sometimes it's myself I can imagine telling someone who who just met me how I'm this. And all of a sudden I'm here and I'm there and this and I'm this and I got this and I sound this way. I don't sound that way. And I and I'm into this horrible hip hop head, but I don't necessarily use hip hop, you know, words or slang.

00;39;26;28 - 00;39;49;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And and how would someone believe a person like this? You know, so I'm aware of it. But but also, you know, it's sort of times and all this because it sort of ties into the world. Right. You know, and there's also there's a lot of self-reflection happens when you realize that maybe these folks that are telling you what is interesting, what what should go for, maybe they do have something to say.

00;39;50;02 - 00;40;09;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Because because it was quite ironic that Ben been rejected from Yale, who talked about actually about Nigeria. And a few years later, the work that kind of blew up, you know, with The New York Times and with the Bronx, I can sense it was this work that sort of had to do with my going back to Nigeria, connect and connecting it to the Bronx.

00;40;09;17 - 00;40;27;05
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I was like so in a in a weird way, it was sort of writes like this is what's interesting, right? You know, it's it's sort of it took me a while to realize me. That's that's odd. You know, even I'm a rebel, you know, just naturally, if you told me something that I should do or know, you know, there's a chance I wouldn't do that.

00;40;27;05 - 00;40;47;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Exactly. And just for the sake of nuts confining, you know, you don't you don't even want to photography. At one point it was I used to make photographs looking through the camera and the moment The New York Times or the Financial Times mentioned something about, oh, the photographer, the photographer does not look to the to the viewfinder. You know, immediately I saw that printed out.

00;40;48;05 - 00;40;55;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I started looking through the viewfinder to a point where I made it. I made to the point where you sign me with you, find them looking through a viewfinder.

00;40;56;11 - 00;40;56;15
Speaker 4
Right?

00;40;56;23 - 00;41;24;25
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It's like in images, you know. So there's a bit of that quality of who I am, you know, where do I fit? You know, even being in America, a lot of times I do think I may have acquired his accent from like going to London something like this, but no, not really. You know, in a South Bronx, I remember folks would think I was just, you know, you know, it's like and I just I like to go, jeez, you know, I'm going to South Bronx with a camera, you know, you know, a late night.

00;41;24;25 - 00;41;46;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, it is Hollywood part of town and it's nothing. I'm invested, you know. And then I have my friends who I grew up with, who obviously knew I'm from the Bronx, you know, often, you know, not so I want to say I'm a native, you know, but I obviously knew that this is my city and knew that my history with the city, you know, people come into college to work in.

00;41;46;28 - 00;42;06;11
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So, you know, even when I had a life threatening illness to being, you know, taking care of in a hospital I in the working for you know I mean I'm talking about deep rooted history. Yeah. And this and it's part of New York City, you know. So but I it's always been this thing. Where is the bit of suspicion, you know, as to who this guy.

00;42;06;24 - 00;42;26;01
Rob Lee
It's one of the things you touched on earlier. I'll paraphrase, I think where it's like you know, almost being vague, not being as like out there because it has a benefit in anonymity. And, you know, in sort of this, like when I do interviews, another citizen like you from here eyebrows, I am not I am from Ultimo where I think.

00;42;26;11 - 00;42;26;15
Speaker 4
So.

00;42;26;29 - 00;42;47;07
Rob Lee
That is is the thing of being able in some ways to be a chameleon, I suppose. But, you know, having a diverse array of interests and yes. Who to have have those those different conversations. So I'll talk to folks who are from media companies like in L.A. They like, yeah, you're from there. I was like, yes, not at all.

00;42;47;07 - 00;43;08;00
Rob Lee
Like I'm doing is I'm here or so. So I don't know. That's that's the thing I like. I'm definitely connecting on a lot of the stuff that you've touched on. So we'll we'll definitely be continue this conversation outside of this. But yes, I want to move into a bit of sort of this this current exhibition, Hotel Indigo and this or so.

00;43;09;09 - 00;43;20;23
Rob Lee
Let's talk about it a bit. So what was or what are sort of the key themes that are there? What are the details that you know, because it's on because it's on view until May, right?

00;43;21;00 - 00;43;21;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;43;21;28 - 00;43;24;18
Rob Lee
So give it a give us the details. Meaning folks to pull up.

00;43;25;18 - 00;44;09;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Well, yeah, I do hope. I mean, you know, obviously, like most artists, Herbert self-promotion. Right. You know, but yeah, literally these configurations, this is a figurative work that's at one point I thought I would never do you know I thought that obviously since black figures are in vogue since seems been since to be the road map for a while and I knew it was risky to get myself into that now world and and with the you know and with this high chance of being because you know misunderstood you know so but eventually I figured why not?

00;44;09;16 - 00;44;37;25
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I did dove into it. And, you know, there's a part of me that actually wants to, you know, write a disclaimer that this these images or these works should not be taken as and it's and it's sort of like, you know, racial outcry or something like this, they should be truly just be enjoyed, you know, for just what the work is about.

00;44;37;25 - 00;45;09;29
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, it's like you look at it, you try to figure out is, was the figure, you know, you're missing features sort of like you would also, you know, miss the sun features being in L.A. your age, you know, because, you know, you seem to not have, you know, what's considered, you know, a plot summary and, you know, so typical, you know, in the, you know, lingo or sense of self, right?

00;45;09;29 - 00;45;28;25
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I mean, I'm not saying we cannot code switches and so on, you know, aspect of our lives because I mean the way we talk to our parents or grandparents or friends, it's also a different right. So and I think that's what happens with a lot of these work. You look at that, you know, all the time, look at them, they do different things.

00;45;29;05 - 00;45;51;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
But they at times, you know, they're very clear. You definitely get you get to see these images, you know, and see what they're truly about. And at times when you do not see them at all and it's sort of like how we are, how we sort of present ourselves. You know, there are times when we do come out and maybe the aspect of Baltimore that would just sort of reveal itself for whatever reason.

00;45;51;15 - 00;46;33;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And something happens to me at certain times and I go to I left Major when I was 16. I was out of high school. You know, we were you know, at least I was talking about how like a computer that this was supposed to get, have my parents, you know, get get them because we used to play was it the video game is Atari, you know and all those things but but I took my dad to get me a computer, so I had a CPU in my living room and the whole neighborhood kids would come to my room and sort of play something differently, you know, so, so it's that, it's that sort of thing,

00;46;33;12 - 00;46;59;18
Osaretin Ugiagbe
you know, it's like, here's this kid, you know, who's very Nigerian also. I think people forget that part. You know, I know even as a kid growing up, my image was so bad, you know, I spoke pidgin English, which I still speak, which I speak with my family, actually, that's the lingo, you know, unfortunately, we don't speak the native language properly, you know, but pidgin English is something we all speak just as a first language, you know.

00;46;59;18 - 00;47;32;00
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So from that to resisted the urge to want to prove that anybody tried it, because I think there's a tendency for one to prove themselves as to who you really are. And I always resist that. You know, it's I mean, it's there. It's it's it's full. I keep thinking it's it's for me to to live and not necessarily have to put as a show or write or or having to prove anything.

00;47;32;00 - 00;47;43;06
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So and that's that's been sort of my my take on on that whole, you know, having someone be oneself, you know, I don't like I have to tell you know is.

00;47;43;10 - 00;48;03;14
Rob Lee
Is I think with it sort of you know, as as I'm looking through because I'm on the website right now. Yes. You know, as I look through it, it's just like, you know, the work free and it's to it's a conversation as an invitation to a conversation. It's like, what are you seeing here? What is missing here? What was the figure that here you're getting out of this?

00;48;03;22 - 00;48;25;21
Rob Lee
Why did you see that? Maybe this other person didn't see it in that way? Like, what are your learned? And maybe similar experiences that might really connect and those things that are a bit more desperate. And you know, I really dig work that that that is just like or that attempts to do that it's just like. Right. What are you taking from this?

00;48;25;22 - 00;48;30;04
Rob Lee
Yes. What would you think about this artist if you had no details other than here's the work?

00;48;30;10 - 00;48;30;26
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;48;31;22 - 00;48;48;29
Rob Lee
You know, and I think that that's the thing, like even the way that I approach this, this isn't the end all be all conversation that I'm having with someone. This is an invitation to dove in further, to have this extra connective tissue. Yes. About who the person is and what it is.

00;48;48;29 - 00;48;49;22
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;48;49;22 - 00;48;50;06
Rob Lee
Good word.

00;48;50;19 - 00;49;19;09
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes. That's actually I mean, it's such a relief to actually have someone like you who's, again, an American that sort of have the same issue in a weird way, because I thought it was 100% an immigrant thing. Right. You know, and I mean, you've actually given a lot of hope. And, you know, it's not personal, really. It's it's what happens when you you know, you sort of, you know, breaking the mold.

00;49;19;11 - 00;49;57;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I said, you know, because I don't think it's such a big deal that, I mean, have been folks going to college, you know, going to Yale and all this. Places like that looks like like we do. And I've always resisted making that a big deal, you know, especially coming from where I have come from, where, you know, I'm fortunate enough to grow up in an environment where, you know, race was not necessarily a heavy topic because it's, you know, it's one massive same people, you know, and, you know, and to be able to leave that and come here and have the fights, you know, the intrusion of, oh, you're in a new land and this

00;49;57;12 - 00;50;28;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
is this is this is what's been precious to you, right? So there's just a lot of and I'm being invaded of, you know, for all of these reasons, you know, and I think and I can be that's that's been the battle, to be honest. And I think that part of the conversation is truly authentic, which is I truly cannot tell you openly, you know, because there's this pushing pool thing that I feel like for once I would feel myself and not want to go myself of like, you know, go exactly.

00;50;28;25 - 00;50;49;02
Osaretin Ugiagbe
See, you know, because because I've been in shows that I've touched on, like, you know, the motherland and we have been, you know, sort of place on the sidelines. Right. And I'm going and I'm looking at everyone who's plays in the center. And what do you have in bits? You are not from that part of it. You live are from that you are not from I am from that part of you know but.

00;50;50;03 - 00;50;50;07
Speaker 4
You.

00;50;50;20 - 00;51;01;13
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Know, I'm in you know, it's somehow been pushed to the side because I'm not saying much or because I don't, you know, because I'm resistant once I happen to quote unquote represents.

00;51;02;00 - 00;51;11;18
Rob Lee
I, I have a I have a buddy, a good friend actually. I met through this through this pod and he's like, I'm 64 for context. He's another.

00;51;11;19 - 00;51;12;19
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Way. You don't, you know.

00;51;13;01 - 00;51;16;22
Rob Lee
Large black man. He's yes, he's Jamaican and Congolese.

00;51;16;22 - 00;51;17;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes or no way.

00;51;18;20 - 00;51;27;25
Rob Lee
And we never talk. He says he shows you the message like he got a rejected from this gallery. They were like, you know, if your work is black enough, he's like, I'm Jamaican and Congolese.

00;51;27;25 - 00;51;32;15
Speaker 4
Looks and does not, you know, image and and it's it's that.

00;51;32;15 - 00;51;35;20
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Sort of thing and it could drive you nuts.

00;51;35;20 - 00;51;38;01
Speaker 4
You know? But your identity, you know.

00;51;39;02 - 00;52;01;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
The reinforcement, like I was saying, it was, was, you know, it is it's all about to realize, you know, maybe you did have a point because like I said, I don't belong in series. You know, Nigeria and the Bronx really caught people's attention right. You know, and I go because the danger is there. And it's like this point land and people don't seem to know much about it.

00;52;01;19 - 00;52;27;14
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And I also I you know, I did realize that, you know, sort of, you know, made a an art. So that's all, you know, from Nigeria, you know, and it's like, yes, yes. Someone who was quote unquote, embracing who, you know, that part of who they are, you know, and it's sort of like that's that's that would be a lot more acceptable if you have the guts, quote unquote, because it would be labeled.

00;52;27;22 - 00;52;56;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So just like for express that side of of one is you know but you for me I've been America almost equally now, you know, over 16 years. You know, I've been here and, you know, like, you know, it's even more than, you know, my formative years in Nigeria, you know, and, you know, so at this point in my life, it's almost like I cannot deny this this existence.

00;52;56;16 - 00;53;23;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yeah. You know, so, you know, it's like your friend. And we go, jeez, you know, I guess I would turn I would turn that feeling into and make that the subject matter. What I do make that the subject matter because again, I think something like tend to do well is it's like an adversity and use it as a as as a means to you know, to become yes.

00;53;23;29 - 00;53;40;15
Rob Lee
Those those late thirties that the pettiness starts to come out where I as there's times where I'm like like right now as we're recording this and there's a there's a billboard that's in Station North and there may be a petty motivation behind it, but a billboard up of this, you know, my logo.

00;53;40;18 - 00;53;41;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;53;41;11 - 00;53;46;08
Rob Lee
It's destroyed. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, you know, that process isn't there. I just do it myself.

00;53;46;17 - 00;53;48;08
Speaker 4
And that's sort of the.

00;53;48;17 - 00;54;14;07
Rob Lee
The thinking that's there in in is not really for me, which to me is a purity to it. It's not for me to get myself over, to use the wrestling parlance. It's really to get over this sort of arc of interviews to for folks to check in and kind of get that invitation, be aware of that invitation to check out this artist, check out you, check out these these different things that are there.

00;54;15;00 - 00;54;33;24
Rob Lee
You know, what I have is just sort of a repository or an archive of those those those interviews. But part of it is identifying like, okay, I don't get press from these different outlets. I've had some weird conversations in the background, some of these different outlets, and I rather not engage in them because like I said, I'm in a recluse.

00;54;34;02 - 00;54;41;03
Rob Lee
This billboard is going to be out though, and maybe folks check it out. Maybe they won't. But the least the intent is there.

00;54;41;06 - 00;54;41;18
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;54;42;02 - 00;54;45;09
Rob Lee
What have I you know, when the ball was in my court, as it were.

00;54;45;17 - 00;55;09;09
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes, I did this did. Exactly. And I truly I think that's what's sort of come down. So and I think that's the realization actually is that's what did you do when when the ball was handed to you right. So yeah. So with that being said, I probably have sort of embraced the in-between, right? It's become my superpower actually, in a way.

00;55;09;09 - 00;55;39;12
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, it's like it is a ton of arts has gained recognition for taking a complete stand as to the background and things like this. And then you've got the in-between sides, you know, and I and I know for a fact that it's not just me feeling this way. So there's a ton of people feel this way. You know, even when I did the show, the broad segment centered on belonging, you know, folks come up to me like, Oh, my God, I felt the same exact way, and you're not necessarily, you know, as an immigrant to something like this.

00;55;39;17 - 00;56;05;14
Osaretin Ugiagbe
These are just immigrants in general, you know, so so with that said, it's become the subjects of what I do, the work, you know, you look at them and you often wonder, even with even with the photographs, there's all this like what kind of places and and who was behind the camera, you know, like intimate moments. And you wonder and you're wondering, like, who's who's to behind a camera, you know?

00;56;05;14 - 00;56;25;04
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And that play I've always loved to I've always loved to sort of be in spaces that she didn't expect or wouldn't expect to see me, actually, you know, or spaces where you often wonder who was truly there, you know. So yeah.

00;56;25;24 - 00;56;44;14
Rob Lee
That's good. And so I want to move in to sort of the last portion of the pod because, you know, like I said earlier, gave you the precursor earlier. I've been teasing it. The duration of this conversation for these rapid fire questions. And I like I said, I've been adding. So, you know, when we started you had two, you now got five.

00;56;44;19 - 00;56;45;20
Speaker 4
So mean.

00;56;46;20 - 00;56;53;20
Rob Lee
And as I tell people all the time, do not overthink these whatever is the sort of first answer that comes to your mind, that's the answer we're rolling with.

00;56;54;01 - 00;56;54;14
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Okay.

00;56;54;26 - 00;57;03;05
Rob Lee
So if you're ready to rock and ready to roll on this one, let's see. So you have bagels, right?

00;57;03;13 - 00;57;03;22
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;57;04;27 - 00;57;06;08
Rob Lee
You got the Bronx, you got built.

00;57;07;00 - 00;57;07;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes.

00;57;07;24 - 00;57;13;28
Rob Lee
Which cities? Energy. The sort of spirit that resonates most with you as a as a creative, as an artist.

00;57;15;00 - 00;57;38;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So to be honest, and it did affect no lot. And we even mentioned London because because for the first time, I mean, you know, actually Jewish friends in London, which I sort of skipped, it was more it was weird, you know, it was I did I was able to speak in French. I was able to meet a child's friend there and reconnect with him.

00;57;39;19 - 00;58;09;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And a lot of things I was things looked familiar, you know. So it did affect me a lot. You know, I don't know if it's positively, you know. So even with that being said, outside of the U.K. or Europe, if New York City, you know, you know, New York City, Baltimore, for me, it's sort of this place where I could concentrate.

00;58;09;28 - 00;58;10;29
Speaker 4
Yeah. You know.

00;58;10;29 - 00;58;33;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I'm not really not bothered. I could really reflect here, you know, and now because I was initially when I moved here, I taught tea, which really inspired me to actually just do what's work or what I was able to produce a lot here. There's no denying that, you know, I mean, some of the shows I've had to go, cheese.

00;58;33;16 - 00;58;56;07
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You've just been so productive. Yeah, well, that's part I mean, it's part of the city itself. It's fine. What I do, you could sort of, you know, you can see a city, you know, in my work true. The colors, you know, I found this in these dark purples and it's like, you know, I'm hoping this has some to do with the Ravens house.

00;58;56;07 - 00;59;12;27
Rob Lee
Well, funny question. Funny question it. I see. That leads me to the next one I have for you. If you could only use one color if you're in like let's say you got like your next body of work, but you have to use one color maybe as a derivative of that color, but literally you're staying within that realm.

00;59;12;27 - 00;59;13;29
Rob Lee
What would that color be?

00;59;14;26 - 01;00;04;23
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I mean, yellow, ocher for sure. You know, I'm sort of going back into that color. It's just to me, it's just beautiful, you know? I mean, with the Poco, the with the deep purples and, you know, violets and indigo's and, you know, they are very difficult to use, actually, you know, and if you're not careful, I remember folks to me comments might my like cheese but it is awful if you see it on anything else but the what the what the paintings, you know, all the canvases you don't you know it's really but I bask in them for so long that I've I'm sort of able to make make them look decent because I still

01;00;04;24 - 01;00;28;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
can't even claim that, you know, these these colors are like totally beautiful. You know, it's like this is darkness. So, you know, it's I ask you a question, definitely yellow, ocher, you know, that's for sure. I mean, my current color palette are very challenging, you know, even I, which is a part of me that's actually repulsed, you know, and I find that, you know, I do find a repulsive sometimes my trying color palette that is.

01;00;28;25 - 01;00;29;11
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So, yeah.

01;00;30;08 - 01;00;35;26
Rob Lee
You're just giving yourself these more challenges that your current color palette is challenged. I was like, all right, just giving yourself just a hard times.

01;00;35;29 - 01;00;50;20
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yes. Yeah. You know, that's I mean, that's really what it's about. No. I mean, what's the point of it's not, you know, a challenge that I mean, that's based on my personality, too, you know, it's why not make it a bit more.

01;00;51;14 - 01;00;59;04
Rob Lee
As is one of the things my partner talks about, she'll say, Yeah, you know, when I'm looking at someone's work, she's, she's really into actors.

01;00;59;14 - 01;00;59;25
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01;01;00;17 - 01;01;18;17
Rob Lee
Just like degree of difficulty. Like they just. Were you doing work here or was it something that. Okay, cool. You did a really good job at the thing that you're good at doing versus like, Oh, you are sweating in this scene. You're doing this, you're emoting. You had to dance for this. She's like, okay, give them award. You got to his accolades.

01;01;19;01 - 01;01;39;10
Rob Lee
And that's sort of the thing that I even, you know, apply that and do doing and doing this where, you know, I'm a failed artist. I wanted to be a comic book artist when I was a kid, you know, trying to go on that illustration line and I do this, I do audio and all of that, and I'm able to have a guest coaching conversation.

01;01;39;11 - 01;01;41;09
Rob Lee
Yes, we do have different artist.

01;01;41;11 - 01;01;49;07
Speaker 4
Yes. Easy. Yes. So you've got your work, you know?

01;01;49;21 - 01;02;10;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
No. Yeah. I mean, no, 100%. You are in a completely different line. But it's it's also admirable, actually, when you know you know, when we hear that she's a part of and they go, oh, wow. I mean, if it doesn't necessarily work out one way, it is there other ways, right? So beat yourself up about it and just, you know, find something else, you know.

01;02;11;03 - 01;02;31;07
Rob Lee
Is kind of what you were you were describing as like you say, different in it was it was that for me I was a marketing person and I got, you know, part of the one of those casualties of a reorganization in the job I had. And it was a complete shift in Dark Dog period. I had the wild apartment, nothing on the walls, white walls.

01;02;31;07 - 01;02;42;07
Rob Lee
And I was like, Yeah, I guess I'll do this podcast. It would come by like, How do you turn on this energy? But then your walls are depressing. I was like, Oh no, this is the lane of the I do this.

01;02;42;07 - 01;02;44;26
Speaker 4
But yes, you know, it's I.

01;02;44;26 - 01;03;08;01
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Guess like it's like a set of tracks and now it's like during those dark times. So I hate to say it sadly, that's when you want to becomes, you know, you know, fearless, right? Because, I mean, what else is there to fear? Right. Right. On your back to the wall. So, you know, it does it does bring forth sort of energy that's needed to just propel one to the next.

01;03;08;20 - 01;03;30;14
Rob Lee
And that is the thing is absolutely energy that that's a big piece of it in you know as I've gotten older and heaviness not getting caught or hooked on those things that used to be, man, this is a block. I'm done. I don't know. And just being able to kind of get past those is like the the martial arts masters, like, right?

01;03;30;15 - 01;03;33;15
Rob Lee
Yes. On his head. I can block that kick now.

01;03;33;27 - 01;03;34;09
Speaker 4
Yes.

01;03;34;10 - 01;03;43;03
Rob Lee
Better at it. So you mentioned videogames earlier. What's what's a game for your childhood that you like? This is this is my joint. I like this one.

01;03;43;18 - 01;03;46;26
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Really crash bet and I think it was called Crash Bandicoot.

01;03;46;27 - 01;03;47;13
Speaker 4
Hell yeah.

01;03;47;22 - 01;03;58;28
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yeah. So that was sort of my game. Also, switch fighters, you know, it's quite good. It does all the street street fighter well to combat the classics you know hold on.

01;03;58;28 - 01;04;05;24
Rob Lee
Hold on, hold on. Who's your mortal combat gear? And the reason I ask is I have a Mortal Kombat tattoo. I mean, I'm sorry, a street fighter tattoo, you know.

01;04;06;20 - 01;04;07;16
Speaker 4
Who did you roll with?

01;04;07;16 - 01;04;09;28
Rob Lee
Who who is your character? 126 fighters.

01;04;09;28 - 01;04;34;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Those bearer. Are you with something like this? Not even. Not even Ken. No, no, no, no. The act. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Thing is, actually, I may break your heart, but this one, I think, is the reverse. Actually, I think it's. Ken was my dude. We had a, you know, because yeah, I was just it was just I mean, I had Tolkien's in my, you know, I just and my, you know, my my uppercut.

01;04;34;03 - 01;04;34;19
Speaker 4
Uppercut.

01;04;34;27 - 01;04;40;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's all we had.

01;04;40;10 - 01;04;42;12
Rob Lee
We loved the guy with the wildness.

01;04;42;14 - 01;04;43;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
With the what exactly?

01;04;43;27 - 01;04;48;03
Rob Lee
I have a shadow lou tattoo. So. And Bison was my guy.

01;04;49;15 - 01;04;54;26
Speaker 4
Because I I'm a villain at the end. Don't exactly know. I always says, well.

01;04;55;24 - 01;05;17;02
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It's fine to say that because you know. Yeah, you know bison I know with the with the shot of Casey and now he's he's, you know, the villain and block all that. Yeah I know the game it was it's funny because I don't play game at all now at all. I think since I moved to America, I just sort of, you know, chew all that away on sports.

01;05;17;02 - 01;05;37;07
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Right? You know, I don't watch I don't watch any sport, really. I could enjoy, you know, I could enjoy a game, but I don't root for any team I could just so and baseball. I just mean soccer. That's, you know, basketball. I sort of know what that's about. I don't have a team, you know, American football. I have no idea what that what's what that's about.

01;05;37;13 - 01;05;49;10
Rob Lee
You had to get your starter kit with wild like Orioles head. It's going to show up in your work. You got to have like you know it is too crazy look I'm give you a care package you know? What are you doing? What do.

01;05;49;10 - 01;05;50;15
Speaker 4
You do? I bet.

01;05;51;03 - 01;05;55;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yeah. I mean, these are the Orioles. I mean, that's interesting. You were one of the best in the country is good.

01;05;56;09 - 01;06;15;00
Rob Lee
Yeah and you know in a in a history in the past I worked there when I was in undergrad. I worked for the Orioles and I was an undergrad. So yeah, it's it's a it's a place is very near and dear to my heart. And yeah, and for the majority of my life, the last time they won a championship was two years before I was born.

01;06;15;08 - 01;06;27;18
Rob Lee
So yeah, I will be 40 next year. So it's just like you guys are the losers. My so it's, it's, it's, it's a challenge to root for.

01;06;27;18 - 01;06;28;01
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01;06;28;18 - 01;06;31;26
Rob Lee
They were they're they're my guys and they're, you know this is Baltimore is Baltimore.

01;06;32;07 - 01;06;40;20
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It is it is. So, so so I'm guessing, you know. So you are you are based in the East Coast. So in the West.

01;06;42;00 - 01;06;42;11
Rob Lee
Baltimore.

01;06;42;27 - 01;06;43;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
In Baltimore.

01;06;43;23 - 01;06;45;01
Rob Lee
Yeah. In the east. Baltimore here.

01;06;45;08 - 01;06;50;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
In oh. Fed. So. So I'm guessing with the with the Pacific time and I've got to show why that was.

01;06;50;19 - 01;06;53;24
Rob Lee
The is weird sometimes it's a goofy AB because I was just.

01;06;53;24 - 01;06;54;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Like, oh.

01;06;54;17 - 01;06;56;12
Rob Lee
Because I thought you were in the West Coast for a second.

01;06;56;12 - 01;07;00;20
Speaker 4
I got a football exactly.

01;07;00;20 - 01;07;01;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Because I remember asking, I.

01;07;01;16 - 01;07;04;04
Speaker 4
Go, Why? What about.

01;07;04;05 - 01;07;24;05
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Pacific Time? So I'm guessing, okay, he's probably basing again even even with your presentation, right? Typical. I mean, all the things you forget. So which is are you in Los Angeles right now? Because I could see that that's you know, in my mind I go, okay, great, he's coming. He's is tuning in from from L.A. And I'm you know, I'm in the East Coast, so I had no idea.

01;07;24;11 - 01;07;25;19
Osaretin Ugiagbe
But just like, yeah.

01;07;26;10 - 01;07;35;08
Rob Lee
So here's the the like the last two I got for you. So, you know, you said you're hip hop head. So, yes. What's the song that's currently on your playlist?

01;07;36;00 - 01;07;49;18
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So I'm oh my God, what a time. And so I've been listening to Rob Marciano is going to album so I think it's is it mostly college and some like that massive ology or something like this.

01;07;50;00 - 01;07;57;11
Rob Lee
It's like did you throw Rocky Marciano says a lot? Because I was like, yeah, you know, I just did some old schools. I know. Brought an obscure reference. I love.

01;07;57;11 - 01;08;11;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
It. Exactly. You know. There you go. No. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, I just I actually made a post about that and how truly I mean, my discovery of that dude not to like, you have to go. It's a plus. Yeah, I know it was. You know, no one put me on, you know, don't put me on to this dude.

01;08;11;16 - 01;08;34;27
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, I'm a huge rap head, by the way. You know, I remember describing him like, oh, who is this guy? This is off his first album. Just drop in on the Internet, no news, no comments. And I'm listen to this, dude. I go this is 2010. This is insane and it's mind blowing because he was there when I was in London, you know?

01;08;34;29 - 01;08;57;04
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, I mean, he dropped an album. Was it Behold a dark horse or something like this and that that that. Yes. That album just literally saved me in London, you know, it was dark. It was the second I saw things in a weird way. And I mean, my point is, it's from this obscure, you know, rap on the Internet.

01;08;57;04 - 01;09;15;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So like him being who he is now. So again, it's that sort of thing, like having the foresight to realize that this is good and I'm sticking with it, you know, don't know, I don't care what anyone says. And again, it's still the rebel mentality where I sort of look for things and, you know, find value in difference, you know?

01;09;15;15 - 01;09;29;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And it's just sort of stayed with them so much. Yeah. At the moments tape warm I think to be specific that being able to track that's on my I want my playlist right now in my head okay in my head right.

01;09;30;10 - 01;09;47;17
Rob Lee
So this is the last one I'm always, always super curious and you know, we've gotten to know each other all this time. And I'm very curious about, you know, what folks eat, what they're eating, habits are there, you know, you artist types. It's like, man, I had a half a clementine of pistachios earlier. I was like, that's not a meal.

01;09;47;27 - 01;10;01;03
Rob Lee
What is your go to meal? Like you've had like, you know, sort of a busy week or what have you or you need something you something like that necessarily. It doesn't have to be healthy. It just has to be good. What is that thing that you're like, craving?

01;10;01;24 - 01;10;25;23
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I'm in braces, you know, all sort of. Right. So Jollof rice, you know, which I make white rice. You know, we'd steal something like this. Just rice is the go to. It's almost like I think rice is the go to for of people in other parts of the world and America. It doesn't seem that way. You know, for me, it's yeah, wherever I could get it, you know, just, you know.

01;10;25;23 - 01;10;26;13
Osaretin Ugiagbe
RICE Yeah.

01;10;27;02 - 01;10;27;19
Rob Lee
I mean, look.

01;10;27;23 - 01;10;44;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I'm not eating wrong. I'm not saying I do not have, you know, I do not eat, you know, horribly, you know, you know, I'm not I'm not I'm not saying any of this at all, you know, but I do I do like rice. It's very comforting to me. You know, it's my go to and that and that's been true.

01;10;45;01 - 01;11;08;15
Rob Lee
That that makes it makes a lot of sense. Like, you know, I always remark on this movie, this documentary, I guess a docu film, I guess Euro of sushi and that whole process of making sushi the art in it. And one of the things that stuck out I might be misremembering, it's been a while since I've seen it, but he was expressing the importance of properly making rice and obviously for like sushi.

01;11;08;21 - 01;11;09;03
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Was.

01;11;09;09 - 01;11;26;16
Rob Lee
Like you're is like it's going to take you 50 years to make this right. Yes, I run that back. And, you know, for me, I it was two things I don't know how to do. Well, I try to cook pretty regularly. I don't how to fry food and I don't know how to cook rice. Well, I have a rice cooker that I botch.

01;11;26;16 - 01;11;27;18
Rob Lee
I fail at it.

01;11;27;18 - 01;11;38;07
Osaretin Ugiagbe
So hold on. You still I mean, even with the rice cooker still somehow messed up, I don't sense what's in it. That's it's maybe a bit of salt. That's that's about it. Push a button.

01;11;38;24 - 01;11;39;25
Speaker 4
I, I know.

01;11;40;11 - 01;11;43;07
Rob Lee
I'm just understanding the air fryer letting me.

01;11;43;07 - 01;11;44;21
Speaker 4
Set up an.

01;11;44;21 - 01;11;57;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Air fryer. I mean, I'm like, that's a bit complicated to me, you know? So I'm not even going to try to act like I'm real, proper cook, air fry. I would even touch. I don't know what I would do with that. Do you make like that? Is that a weapon?

01;11;57;21 - 01;12;09;29
Rob Lee
I just got it. And I do some interesting things in it. But the friggin the rice cooker, I think the issue is either put too much rice in there or I don't put enough water on the ballot. The ratios are.

01;12;10;00 - 01;12;21;16
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Racial. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. I can see I can see that being. Yeah, I've had guests who've sort of, you know, made that same mistakes. It's saying off. It's not the end of the world. It's just a matter of to balance out the water. You, which I'm.

01;12;21;28 - 01;12;22;29
Rob Lee
I'm going to perfected.

01;12;23;10 - 01;12;25;06
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Fact that just, you know, that's all.

01;12;26;03 - 01;12;26;09
Speaker 4
It's.

01;12;26;09 - 01;12;32;08
Rob Lee
Like I have it. It's like, what are you doing? How is this? How did you screw this up again? That's what I think it was.

01;12;33;10 - 01;12;41;06
Osaretin Ugiagbe
That's funny because actually I do have rice cooker, but I'm also an expert at making just, you know, boil it myself. So I.

01;12;41;13 - 01;12;42;16
Speaker 4
Actually look at it like.

01;12;42;24 - 01;12;45;27
Rob Lee
It's just show me up again. I like it. Good, good, good job there.

01;12;46;05 - 01;12;49;05
Speaker 4
You're right.

01;12;49;05 - 01;13;06;02
Rob Lee
So so with that one, you know that that's sort of the the wrap up of the questions you got off the hot seat, you got the rapid fire portion and thank you for for being a part of this pie. This has been it's been a pleasure. It's been an honor. It's been a lot of fun. And there's two things I want to do.

01;13;06;11 - 01;13;08;03
Rob Lee
And again, thank you. Is one of them.

01;13;08;03 - 01;13;27;17
Osaretin Ugiagbe
No, no, no. You're welcome. Thank you. You know, I don't know how these things work, to be honest, because like I was telling you, I almost don't don't do interviews. You know, I've done a few words, but not as a podcast, you know, and and usually I wouldn't say much, you know, I wouldn't I would just let you know, it's funny.

01;13;27;17 - 01;13;41;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
I'll just let people just make up things, you know, sometimes just, you know, and not really have things be definite, you know? It's like just have it become this sort of like rumor. Oh, the American or, you know, he's British, actually, who's British?

01;13;41;21 - 01;13;43;15
Speaker 4
And I love it. And this.

01;13;43;24 - 01;13;49;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Is no easy for you this and it's just a bunch of things is out there and I do get a kick out of it sometimes but.

01;13;49;22 - 01;13;57;16
Rob Lee
I want to. That was like actually a question that I had for a while. It was like I would ask folks in the rapid fire portion because you get see how cheeky to be.

01;13;57;24 - 01;13;58;24
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01;13;58;24 - 01;14;02;14
Rob Lee
So what's a rumor you want to start like, look, don't get me started. I have a lot.

01;14;02;15 - 01;14;03;28
Speaker 4
Of fun out there.

01;14;05;01 - 01;14;19;15
Rob Lee
But in these final moments, I want to give you the space and opportunity. I know you said you're not good at it, but, you know, sort of shameless plug. You know, tell folks where to like check you out, social media, websites, stuff like that. Just so I can be up to date.

01;14;20;06 - 01;14;40;21
Osaretin Ugiagbe
No fan of me is is nothing to wait to see on my social media. To be honest, I the things I do, my social media sometimes actually gets you off. It's, you know, it's, you know, but you could definitely see the work. I do maintain a website so you get to see the on my websites with no interference at all.

01;14;41;04 - 01;15;00;15
Osaretin Ugiagbe
No you've got all the time to look at them and critique them. You know, I don't like when I put them on social media because you're at who's like that's who hasn't like it and sort of interfered on how when we see, you know, work, you know. So for that reason I sort of refrain or or even equality, you know, believe in social media.

01;15;00;15 - 01;15;26;24
Osaretin Ugiagbe
You know, it's a lot of times I'm making photographs with my phone, which are terrible. So my website is definitely way to go with the show. That's Amy curated at the Indigo Hotel. It's there. I think it would be great if folks could go and just check it out, you know, just see it in person, you know, and that's really about it.

01;15;26;24 - 01;15;46;10
Osaretin Ugiagbe
Yeah. And thank you for having me. You know, this is incredible. So I wasn't sure what to expect. I mean, listen to a few points because I know in my mind I kept thinking when I fit, where I fit in here, what's how it's going to be. But, you know, sometimes you just know that set to me, you know, stick with it, stick with it.

01;15;46;14 - 01;16;04;08
Osaretin Ugiagbe
And then I saw your list of questions and I go, yes, I no, it's it's you really did a great job looking. And the questions were very, very interesting. I was like, yes, so glad, you know, you know, we were able to connect. You know, I really appreciate you having me on.

01;16;04;26 - 01;16;10;26
Rob Lee
There you have it, folks. I'm going to again thank authoritative Gabe for coming on and telling us a bit about his work, but.

01;16;10;26 - 01;16;11;24
Speaker 4
More about his is.

01;16;11;24 - 01;16;28;10
Rob Lee
His journey. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.