Welcome back to the Truth in Us Art. I am your host, Rob Lee. Thank you for tuning in to my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture, and community. Today, I have a special guest for a special conversation. As you may know, July is culinary arts month, and it is no secret that I love food.
Rob Lee:I love chatting about food. I love getting into culinary and gastronomical nerdery. So my guest today is the owner and chef of several different restaurant concepts in the Greater Baltimore area, including Bunny's, Salios, and The Dive. Please welcome chef and restauranteur, Jesse Sandlin. Welcome to the podcast.
Jesse Sandlin:Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
Rob Lee:Thank you for coming on. And, you know, it's it's one of those things and, whenever I have on folks who I've had their food, I mark out I mark out a little bit. I'm definitely a food nerd. I have some strong food opinions. So, it's it's a privilege to have you here.
Jesse Sandlin:Well, thank you so much. I I love to hear it. That's awesome.
Rob Lee:And, before we get into, like, the deeper questions, what have you, the ones that's those those multiple layers down, I wanna give you the space and opportunity to to introduce yourself, and I think a lot of times, it's it's super important to hear it in in our own words. You know, we get those online bios, those marketing materials, and it's like, I don't even look like that anymore. And that's not even the story. So if you will, could you tell us a bit about yourself and give us your your background, sort of an elevator pitch, if you will?
Jesse Sandlin:Sure. Well, my name is Jessie Sandlin. And, I am a Baltimore native grew up throughout Baltimore, who did a lot of moving around as a kid, but, settled in high school in, in Boerne. Moved to California when I was younger, and then cooked in Australia for a little while, before I came back to Baltimore, probably about 20 years ago now. Worked for Sydney Wolf and Tony Forman, for a number of years.
Jesse Sandlin:And then got the opportunity to, be the chef, executive chef of a place called Abercrombie, which is long gone now, but over by the Meyerhoff Symphony Hall and, you know, kind of took it from there at different places around town, opened up my first restaurant on my own in, July of 2020, Sally O's. And then we opened up the dive, 2 years later, and that's over in Canton. And then just last year in, actually, almost exactly a year ago, it was June 14, 2023, we opened up Bunny's Buckets and Bubbles, which is in Fells Point. So that's that's where we're at now.
Rob Lee:That's that's great. And and and the cool thing about it, right, is as if you've been on a podcast before, you kinda tease what we're gonna be diving a bit further into later.
Jesse Sandlin:I've never been on a pod well, I have my my friend has a, has a podcast, and I did an episode with him, in during the pandemic, actually, if I remember the timing correctly, but but I do listen to a lot of podcasts. So
Rob Lee:Alright. You you you get it. You get it. You understand what we're doing here, and here's the thing. You know, folks will say, like, man, I said too much.
Rob Lee:Or I guess, like, no, no, no, no. You're making my job easier. It's less about me talking more about you. So I I think food has a lot of emotion, a lot of connection, and this is sort of, part of my offerings for, we're recording this in July. I mean, June, but releasing in July is part of my offerings for Culinary Arts Month.
Rob Lee:So I I I think with the emotion and with the sort of connection that folks have, and you you kinda took us a little bit through that journey, could you go back a bit and share one of your favorite early food memories?
Jesse Sandlin:Let's see. I when I I was a latchkey kid, so I did a lot of cooking dinner, like, for myself or for my parents. You know, I'd come home from school, do some chores, do some homework, and and throw, you know, like, make steakums or, like, you know, peppers and onions or something. But one of my favorite things that it still has this, like, nostalgicness to it is just like a really simple roasted chicken because that's one of the things when I was a kid that was, like, we probably ate 2 chickens a week just because it was you know, you kinda rub it with some oil and salt and pepper and throw whatever weird dried herbs are in the spice cabinet and throw it in the oven and let it go for half our you know, I mean, I was probably cooking it for an hour at that time because, you know, what did I know? Just throw it in the oven until it doesn't until you can rip the bone out of the leg.
Jesse Sandlin:But that I think in general, just carnivorous chicken has this real nostalgia for me, because of, you know, that was, like, one of the first things that I ever really made, that I felt like I could you know, you play around with different spices and herbs and things. And, you know, it was a little bit of experimentation and, kind of discovery, you know, when I was when I was a kid.
Rob Lee:That's great. Thank you. I I've talked about this a lot. This is much more low rent, than, you know, purchasing the chicken, but I I would think about my my mom. It's not really food, you know, but it is one of those things when my brother and I, you know, we would get out of school and we'd get home, and it was kinda that 1 hour period between my mom just left.
Rob Lee:We've just missed her, and my dad is on his way home. So we're just kind of there, like Mhmm. Out. And she would always have, like, an handwritten note, you know, Thomas, how much she cared about, so much she loved us and all of that good stuff. And it would be like the wild hub juices and, like, star crunch.
Rob Lee:Like, you know, what are those, like Oh my god. I love it. The Wild
Jesse Sandlin:Hub Juices.
Rob Lee:Yeah.
Jesse Sandlin:I haven't even thought about a Star Crunch in so many years. That's amazing.
Rob Lee:And, you know, I I remember those things, and it it is and that's and that's what a sort of emotion thing, the family connection. Right? Where
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah.
Rob Lee:You know, you you think about those things. And I'm always trying to recreate stuff from an era, but do it with, I guess, sort of responsibility, I suppose, where, you know, like, I'm 39. I'm a be 40 beginning of next year, and it's it's coming. And one of the things I really liked growing up and they stopped making them and I find I see red. It's out there that he don't exist anymore.
Rob Lee:And I'm like, look, where's the recipe? I know it's a recipe out there. The The freaking, like, ninja turtle pies. It's always something. Always something.
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah. Those are great. Do you know what I was thinking of the other day? And I don't know I don't know when they went away, and I think it was almost like a, I want I this is ridiculous. It feels to me like a very underground kind of in the know thing because I'll say this and you may or may not know.
Jesse Sandlin:A lot of people don't know what they were, but did you ever have screaming yellow zonkers?
Rob Lee:I remember those.
Jesse Sandlin:Yes. Wow. You know, I've I don't know what happened to them. I haven't seen them in years, but the other day, I guess I maybe I was in, like, the popcorn aisle in the in the grocery store or something, and
Rob Lee:I was like, holy shit. Where are
Jesse Sandlin:the screaming yellow zonkers? Why haven't I had them in so long? And who knows what happened to them? But that's another one of those, like, man, those are so good, and now they're just gone forever.
Rob Lee:I mean, once upon a time before moving to this next question, once upon a time, I did a different podcast. I've been podcasting for 15 years, and I did one that was, like, pop culture oriented. And whenever the new and it's it's not food. It's not food. Let's just call it what it is.
Rob Lee:It's not food. These were like junk items would come out, but I'm like, I appreciate the creativity. So whenever Lays came out with their new flavors during the summer or I I just remember it was probably 2016 maybe when, those the first iteration of the coffee nut M and M's came out, and I was like, look, we're just gonna do a fast food and snack podcast. We're just gonna review these with no video. It's just gonna be a sound of us chewing.
Rob Lee:It's it's not gonna be good for anyone listening.
Jesse Sandlin:I love that, though. That's that's so fun.
Rob Lee:So and thank you. So, moving into this this next question, you touched on it a bit as far as the some of the different touch points within your food journey. So, you know, how how did you get into food? Like, we we've had those things. You mentioned being a a last kid and just kinda, like, figured it out early on and that, you know, making the chicken and doing all these different things.
Rob Lee:And, you know, but pursuing it as a vocation, pursuing it as a calling. And even down this journey, I see, like, top chef. I see you touched on, you know, Australia, you touched on, you know, some of the, you know, biggest names here in the city in different kitchens that you've worked in and now being a restaurateur and, like, sort of this era that's been very, very challenging and then seeing, you know, 1, your your food shine through, your restaurant shine through, and the personality shine through in those restaurants. So let's let's talk about the journey. Like, what was going backwards?
Rob Lee:What was that sort of yes. This is what I'm gonna do. You know, what was that for you?
Jesse Sandlin:I mean, I I think it was something that I kind of thought about, like, when I was in high school, you know, you're like, alright, we're, I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do whatever. But back then, you know, I'm 45. So I graduated high school in 96. And back then it wasn't like it is now where being a chef was like a real legitimate occupation that you would think about, you know, it was like, oh, well, how do you turn that into a career? How do you turn that into a job?
Jesse Sandlin:Like, you know, I didn't think about it as something I could do for the rest of my life. It was just something that I enjoyed. And I worked at a little hot dog place in Glen Burnie called Anne's Dairy Cream that's still there. They do foot long hot dogs and, you know, soft serve ice cream and Cheesesteak subs, and and it's amazing, but that was kind of the extent of my, I don't know, professional kitchen knowledge. So when I moved to California, I did a bunch of you know, I taught elementary school for a little while, which is, what I thought I wanted to do until I realized that I don't necessarily like children all that much, for whatever it's worth.
Jesse Sandlin:And, I I had a roommate, her name is Linda. I'm still a very good friend of mine today, and she was a sous chef at a restaurant. And she knew that I'd had a little bit of experience. She called me one night and she said, you know, the the person who makes salads, the pantry cook called out, can you just come and fill in for tonight and, just, you know, salads and desserts? It's really easy, you know, to help me out.
Jesse Sandlin:And I said, yeah. Sure. Absolutely. And and that was kind of the beginning of the end, so to speak. You know, I I started working there in the evenings part time, and I had an office job during the day.
Jesse Sandlin:And then, wound up leaving that office job and found another job in the kitchen during the day and and just did it from there. You know?
Rob Lee:And then now, something like, you know, 30 years later,
Jesse Sandlin:I am where I am. So
Rob Lee:Thank you. Yeah. So is there a a a an experience or a period that, you know, and and being in the different kitchens and having those different experiences that kind of shape how you approach whether from the the the in the kitchen side of things, the business side of things, the sort of, like, overall, you know, being a restaurant or being a chef, is there an example that comes out that you think of, like, yeah, this was that moment. This was something that really helped shape who I am in the kitchen and who I am as a business person.
Jesse Sandlin:I mean, I think I think there's been a lot of those moments. You know, I've been fortunate enough to work for some really amazing people and, you know, a lot of my I don't know, like early kind of ethos, I guess, about food came from, you know, chefs that I worked for in California and, you know, this kind of, getting into, like, the slow food movement of, you know, we we use local products. We use artisanal stuff. We we use high quality ingredients and, you know, that kind of continued when I came to work for, the Foreman Wolf Group. You know, when I was at Pozzo, I was a sous chef there.
Jesse Sandlin:Tony, Foreman and I would get up, and we'd go to the farmer's market under the JFX every Sunday morning at like 6 AM, you know, and we'd buy a bunch of stuff for all the restaurants. And I met all these farmers and, you know, working for them really taught me an incredible amount about managing people and, you know, just kind of managing learning how to manage yourself and and things like that. And, you know, so there's I've had a lot of those kind of, I don't know, defining moments, I guess. It's hard to really, like, nail 1 or 2 down because because there's just been so so many, you know, honestly.
Rob Lee:No. No. That's it's great to to have so so many to look back at. Like, I've run into that as well in in doing this. This is, you know, has taken up, you know, doing this podcast has been a third of sort of my, quote, unquote, podcast journey.
Rob Lee:Right? And,
Jesse Sandlin:yeah, you
Rob Lee:know, folks ask me, like, what's your favorite interview? What's the interview that sticks out? And I'm like, why are you asking me questions? And I'm
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah. Right? Like, I don't know. All of them.
Rob Lee:That is literally, it that is really the answer, but then it's it's 800 interviews. And so I've it was coming up on Andrea, at least, and some folks I've talked to a few different times, and, you know, me, I'm always appreciative of the conversation. You know, you go out there and, you know, Baltimore, you were touching on sort of going to that farmers market and you kinda having those, you know, those those early connections with folks, like, oh, this is this farmer. This is how this person operates, and this is what this person does, and being able to have, like, a conversation with them, and then that maybe flourishes into something that is maybe a relationship between the, you know, the farmer, the producer, and the the restaurant or so on. And, you know, I have that on occasion in doing this.
Rob Lee:I I try to be neutral, try to have just interesting conversations. I don't really have an agenda other than let's have the conversation if you're interested. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's it's funny, like, in going through you're the third of these these interviews that I've done with chefs, and, you know, it's funny, in talking with, some of the ones that are out there, like Chef Zach from True Chesapeake, what have you, is always like, appreciate you coming through, buddy.
Rob Lee:And I was just like, he pops over, has a conversation, and it's just like, oh, yeah. We we have a an established connection here.
Jesse Sandlin:And Yeah. We'll do the
Rob Lee:things that matter, I think.
Jesse Sandlin:Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, especially, like, you know, I'll say the the food restaurant industry in Baltimore is is small, you know, and and a lot of a lot of the chefs know each other and support each other and, you know, it's it's always nice to just, like, you know, feel like you have that community and that support and, you know, in in within the city and within your small little, like, kinda, restaurant world, I guess, you could say.
Rob Lee:Oh, yeah. And and and definitely, I brag about I'm like, look, man. You gotta go there. You gotta try to catfish. And it's like, if you go on the bunnies, you gotta look.
Rob Lee:It's not even here's the thing. You know, and we're gonna this is the next question, actually. Here's the thing. Like, you know, I like I'm not a huge fried chicken person. Right?
Rob Lee:And my partner is not a meat eater. We both have fried chicken at your spot, though. That's the thing. She doesn't eat meat right now. And and I'm like, I'll have the biscuits, and I'll have, some of these deviled eggs, and something strong alcoholic wise.
Rob Lee:And that was a little bit by order. You know, it's like and this is, like, the first time we went there, and, you know, it was it was her kids that really kind of gassed it up and said, you guys got to go to bunnies. I don't know what you're doing. It's just it's fried chicken and it's like bubble like bubbles. Like, what are you doing?
Rob Lee:Like, and when the idea and the notion was presented to us, me and her, we both looked at each other. We like when these, like, you know, Reese's Cup sort of situations come together. So if you will, tell us about sort of bunnies and where did the, like, idea and the sort of concept come together of, like, fried chicken and in the bubbly, if you will?
Jesse Sandlin:Well, I mean, there's a couple of different reasons. One of them being they're my fried chicken and champagne are my two favorite things in the world. For for my 30th, and my 40th birthday, we had a fried chicken and champagne party. So it's it's long been a theme of my life. But, there's also my 2 main business partners, Brian and Matt, who are my partners in all of the restaurants.
Jesse Sandlin:So then we also have Peter, who's our partner, my partner at the dive as well. But we all really love this restaurant in South Carolina called Leon's. And they do fried chicken, they do oysters, and they have a pretty extensive, bubbles and champagne list as well. And so after Saludos, Matt got married down in South Carolina, and we were kinda sitting down there and I texted Brian and I said, you know, the next restaurant that we do, like, I wanna do fried chicken and champagne. We're gonna call it funnies.
Jesse Sandlin:It's gonna be super fun, like, you know, this whole idea. And then it just kind of snowballed from there. Matt found the, the war frat when it went up for auction. Brian and I went and looked at it. We said, this is crazy.
Jesse Sandlin:This building is, you know, a 1000 years old. It's gonna be so much. And, you know, Matt was like, oh, but it's so cool. And, you know, we did the tour of it. And we're like, alright, yeah, this is this is pretty fucking cool.
Jesse Sandlin:This is a great building. And so it just kind of, you know, it just kind of blossomed from there and and, became what it is now.
Rob Lee:It's it's it's great, you know, and I I do this thing where I really think of this. I keep a notepad with me and all of this stuff. I'm one of those guys. I'm very serious about the places that I like, and I'm an evangelist for the place. Like, you know, I've gotten the the title from family and friends who are out of towners.
Rob Lee:And it was like, you're the culture guy. Where do I go? And I do all of the things I go from the branding. I go from and it's usually not even just like, oh, they make really good food. Like, sure, that's that's the default for me.
Rob Lee:But it's branding, identity, all of those those different items. Like, there's the colors, there's the logo, all of those things that are there because I want that memory there with that, the connection to be there. So each one of the locations mentioned the dive, Salios and Bunnies, they all have a distinct thing and it's a certain vibe attached, and it's very successful and kind of building that out. And I think it's beloved. Could you speak a bit on like having a successful concept?
Rob Lee:Like, what goes into that?
Jesse Sandlin:I think part of it is, like, you know, there's gotta be I'm a big believer in kind of staying as true to concept as you can. You know what I mean? Because, I think that people have an idea of what they want and what they expect. And, you know, if you go too far away from that, it gets muddy. Right?
Jesse Sandlin:So, with cellulose, the concept is kind of so much looser. It was it was like, this is my first restaurant, I'm just gonna do like, whatever I want kind of a thing. You know? So which is why the menu is, like, all over the place and, and very eclectic. And I mean, the decor as well, it's like Thalia's was was kind of, modeled after, like, my living room, you know, saying this is just gonna be a really comfortable space.
Jesse Sandlin:We want it to be neighborhood friendly, but we also want you to be able to, like, you know, feel as if you could come here and and bring a date and wear a suit and tie, tie, or you could come and just sit at the bar and eat a smash burger and and, you know, in your sweats and drink a netty bow and, you know, you're fine. It's all it's all welcome either way. But, like, the other places were kind of, you know, just these just random ideas that, you know, the bunnies, like, we wanted I wanted it to feel like almost like a modern diner. You know, it just seemed like it would go with, like, the idea of bubbles and fun and, you know, the fried chicken, and we could do a lot with that and and just creating a space that was kind of unique to Baltimore in general was also, like, a thought with that as well. I'm like trying to just be just be different, but not, like, gimmicky, if that makes sense.
Jesse Sandlin:You know? Because it it it you wanted to feel like something that will stand the test of time and that's not gonna be just a fad that's happening right now. You know? So I think that's kind of part of, like, the thought process of, you know, building out a brand and thinking in terms of, like, longevity. And I had a friend of mine who helped me build the Salios website and and did a lot of work with me on the branding for Salios in general.
Jesse Sandlin:He owns a graphic design company and marketing firm called, Proper. And he one day was like, alright. Well, if your brand was a celebrity, like, who would it be? And that is something I kind of always think of now is like, you know, who okay. If if Saliosa was a celebrity, what would that, you know, what would that person be?
Jesse Sandlin:Like, why does that appeal? And, you know, thinking in terms of things like that is has been a lot of fun with thinking about branding as well.
Rob Lee:It's wonderful. And, and even thinking about the the locations, like, you know, there are there are places I've gone to, in and around, Baltimore and other other places where I'll travel to that, you know, they they sometimes they they don't finish. Like, this is great, you know, as a place, but I don't know if it fits in this particular location for sake of argument. Mhmm. And I can speak, you know, very intently because it's most recently I've gone to Salio's and, to Bunny's that both of them both of them feel specifically like they should have been there for a very long time.
Rob Lee:Not like, you know, you said 2020 and, like, you know, literally a year later. So within the last, like, 3 to 4 years, they both feel like they've been there for forever as far as what they are at this this moment. And I think with, like, Sally O specifically, that it's in an arts district, so it has sort of that that that vibe. This is a little grid there, but then you can see a little bit of everyone there. I've probably gone to Salios the most.
Rob Lee:I think I've been to Bunnies maybe 3 times, but Salios the most, and, you know, it's definitely oh, what's over here? Oh, yeah. Let's go to Salios. It's literally that.
Jesse Sandlin:That's awesome. Yeah. I I I live in Highland Town, so, it was it was easy, I think, in a way to make it, feel like part of the neighborhood because I am part of the neighborhood, you know? So it was it was just kind of, like like I said, creating, like, this extension of of my home in a lot of ways and, you know, really wanting it to feel like it fit in with the neighborhood and and, you know, that the neighbors could come and really feel like it was still their place, you know, because it had been the laughing pipe for gosh. I think it was, like, 13 years or something, and it was such a beloved space.
Jesse Sandlin:But I wanted to make it I I still wanted to have that kind of vibe and and feel to it, but I also needed to make it mine and something completely different so that people wouldn't constantly compare. You know what I mean? And I think we kind of had that same feeling about, you know, the war frat as it was, you know, I've been there for so long. It was such a beloved space. People, you know, really missed it when it closed.
Jesse Sandlin:And we wanted to pay some homage to the past, and we there were aspects that we were gonna keep, but honestly, once we kind of got into the demolition and found the, I mean, the immense structural issues that we had at that space, it was like, alright. Well, we're just gonna blow it up and, you know, create something totally new. So, it feels good to hear that that it still feels like it belongs in in that area. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:Okay. And, yeah, and and I think one of the things you you touched on a moment ago there, I think, is really, really key and really important. You know, when I go around the the city, I'm looking at different places. I got my eyes open. You know, what's new?
Rob Lee:What's new? And, I am a snot when it comes to, like, New Orleans, New Orleans food, southern food, something something like that. And I'm always looking for that. And I'm looking for Puerto Rican food, looking for these different things. And, you know, then I'm also because of doing these interviews and being able to zigzag and cross conversations, you know, you you you hear things.
Rob Lee:You listen to people, and you kinda hear, like, what's missing and what folks would want. And that that, community thing, feeling like something's a part of the community. And I'll I'll add this dynamic to it, this piece to it. When I go to a place and see that a place is closed, right, and it's definitely a beloved place or a place that's like, damn. I remember having some good meals there, good times there.
Rob Lee:I and my initial thought is is is is, like, I hope they don't put something crappy there. I hope they replace it with something cool or I hope they don't turn it into a loft. And then I see different sort of areas that maybe you have an arts district or maybe have like a fair amount of foot traffic. And it's, you know, it's almost like the neighbors that are in these places aren't talking to each other to, hey. If you're over here in this arts district and we have this really cool restaurant, maybe you should go there.
Rob Lee:But I saw that it a bit of that that difference thing there, when it comes to Holland Town and specifically with, like like, Bethan. Right? She's like, oh, yeah. It's Salios. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Go there. And and that's literally I'm at a gallery doing something completely different, and it's like, go to Salle L'Os. And I think that should happen more often because literally is a long winded way of saying it. We're all neighbors.
Jesse Sandlin:100%. Yeah. I mean and and I think, you know, I mean, in this day and age and, you know, you as small business owners and, you know, artists, creatives, whatever you wanna call it, like, we all need to support each other as in any way we can. And, you know, I think that word-of-mouth is one of the best ways of doing that. You know?
Jesse Sandlin:I was so sad when Bethanne moved up to, the royal blue. I mean, it's so great for her because that space is amazing. But just having her across the street, like, on 1st Fridays, you know, you look over and Bethanne and Sean are outside, like, having a little party. And, you know, you stop by and say hi. And it just was, you know, really a nice, it's just a good time.
Jesse Sandlin:And not that it's not now with Crystal Mall, the woman who moved in over there. She's lovely, but it it just, you know, it was just a different vibe, and, I miss her. I miss her a lot. She's awesome.
Rob Lee:Yeah. I think it's and Bethanne's great. She's always supported everything I've done with this. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And and I think, like, you know, having that idea of more of that, you know, as far as having these sort of connections, hey, we're literally neighbors. Like, how do we Yeah. Make these things kinda work that we're all supporting each other and, you know, our goals and the overall sort of health, economically, creatively, what have you, of the communities that our our small businesses are
Jesse Sandlin:in. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Lee:So I got, like, 2, well, actually, 3 menu related questions. These are speaking in in generalities, but I want I wanna start off with this this first one. It it almost covers similar territory, but I want to get your take as a person that's also a consumer, not just the business side of it and the chef side of it. It's like, oh, so your person eats food. I I eat food.
Rob Lee:What are your sort of core beliefs, philosophies when it comes to creating and enjoying, like, food, enjoying a good a good meal?
Jesse Sandlin:I am very, like I don't know if impetuous is the word, but I I get really, like, I want a specific thing right now. And that's
Rob Lee:what I that's what I want.
Jesse Sandlin:You know? So, like, if I'm gonna go out to eat, it'll be like, alright. I want pasta tonight where I'm gonna go here or, you know, like, I I get that kind of, like, you know, real strong cravings and then I have to go, you know, to to satisfy that. But as far as, like, building a menu, I think I'm I'm a person I've I've been I've I've long had kitchens that are limited, you know, in some capacity by like size or equipment or what have you. So whenever I think about, menu creation, I tend to think really strongly about the execution of the dish and how we're gonna produce it.
Jesse Sandlin:And are we gonna be able to produce it consistently and out of this kitchen? Like, you know, if you've got and Sally was, we have a 6 burner stove. I can't do a dish that is a 4 pan pickup because I've only got 6 burners. You know what I mean? So there's things to think about, like, with that.
Jesse Sandlin:But as far as, like, choosing where to eat, I think it's it's certainly, for me at least, based predominantly on, like, what I want in that moment, you know.
Rob Lee:So, I wanna ask you this this question as as far as, like like, anchors. Right? Is is there like when you're you're thinking sort of like this is what we're adding to the menu, this is what we're maybe going to revise from the menu. What comes to mind there, when you're you're thinking about, like, okay, is this gonna be sort of this anchor for this period of of the year? Are we gonna shift to something completely different?
Rob Lee:What what are your thoughts as far as, like, updating the menu and the sort of testing of what's gonna be a new focus in the menu, for instance?
Jesse Sandlin:I mean, seasonality really is the big thing. You know, obviously, like, you're I I don't wanna sell people asparagus in January when it's woody and chewy and gross. You know what I mean? And we do work so closely with some of the farmers here, that, you know, once we get good asparagus or or, like, right now, we've got I just picked up some really nice cherries and peaches. We've got tomatoes coming in soon.
Jesse Sandlin:You know, it's it's really thinking of of when things are gonna come in the season, what we're gonna change based on, you know, what's in season now, and and and that's kind of the the real, I guess, anchors is is what's in season, how long are we gonna have it for, and and and how heavy are things. You know? We we we have this dish, at Saludos. It's a French onion ravioli, which it's, these cheese raviolis, and we do some shredded rib eye and, heavy, like, demi glace, and butter kinda sauce for the pasta, and and then some wilted spinach and caramelized onions. And we used to take it off the menu in the summer because it was just so heavy, and people would call and ask where where it was.
Jesse Sandlin:And so, you know, we try to balance it with things that people really want us to have all the time, but also, you know, keeping things fresh and seasonal and and kind of of the moment where if it's summertime, you're we're not doing these really heavy braised dish. We try and keep it lighter, because, you know, it's it's Baltimore, so it's miserably hot and humid.
Rob Lee:Like the way you put that miserably hot and humid ass on over here right now.
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah. I can't I hate it. The summer kills me. I'm always I'm happy to sit inside in the air conditioning or or unless I'm in in a body of water. If I'm in a pool or or the ocean or something, that's different.
Jesse Sandlin:But other than that, I I'm a I'm a fall and winter girly for sure.
Rob Lee:100%. I Yeah. Talking about it recently about, you know, sort of Game of Thrones and all of that stuff, and I my personality was described as being of the North. And I was like, I'm born in January, so of course.
Jesse Sandlin:Yep. Yep. For sure.
Rob Lee:So I got I got one last real question, before I hit you with some some rapid fire questions. So, the the last one I got is sort of the future of the local culinary industry. Like, I always kind of brag about the food here in Baltimore that we just got really good food, and I think people are, like, starting to recognize that maybe outside of here. But I think that we missed this. That bit of secret to many folks that are here.
Rob Lee:What do you what do you think is the future of sort of the restaurant industry locally? And I know it's been, you know, some challenges, over the last, like, several years or what have you. And what excites you about the industry moving forward?
Jesse Sandlin:I mean, everything, really. I think there's, I think I I love seeing, you know, small businesses really continue to thrive and and grow. Brian Lavin, who just opened, Coursera with Sam back in, oh, most of January, I think. They're doing great. His food's amazing.
Jesse Sandlin:I love that place and and just, you know, seeing, you know, I don't wanna say really the little guys kind of get their comeuppance, but, you know, I I love seeing people get their flowers and and, you know, the guys over at La Calle and Fells Point are killing it and, you know, foraged up in Hamden. I mean, there's there's so many, like, really great small spots that are really doing things well and and doing them right and, getting some national recognition about it too. I mean, we're calling for a van, you know, a couple years ago, and what was that? Like, several wars, like, top 10 restaurants in the nation or something like that. And, I mean, even luchadores, you know, cochinaluchadores, getting written about, I think, in Bon Appetit or something.
Jesse Sandlin:Like, I love that Baltimore is is becoming a real food city, you know, after all these years. And, I mean, if I'm being honest, I think that Sydney Wolf, you know, really spearheading that in so many ways with, you know, the Forman Wolf group and all of their commitment to quality and just kind of you know, it's it's nice to
Rob Lee:see that there's finally, like, some real recognition coming, Baltimore's way. So that,
Jesse Sandlin:I think, is really exciting and, you know, just kind of excited to see what else comes up. You know? And there's been so many great places that have been popping up and around. I'm excited to see who's who's next. You know?
Rob Lee:No. That's yes. It's delightful. I mean, you know, seeing all of the different places kind of kind of blow up or what have you and just do good stuff like know, I'm friends with Chris at Forage or have you. I have a drink on the menu currently if you've not pop over.
Rob Lee:But yeah, it's, know, it's great. And, you know, just seeing all these places kind of get their due. And when I see as far as like the national exposure, when I see sort of collaborations with the the little guys, if you will, like show up, whether it be, hey, we're now serving that Oriole Park for sake of argument, or we've popped up on a television show and it's like, yo, there's gonna be more traffic going there. I need to make friends so I can get a seat. But also but also it's good to, like, see see those things and see when folks advance, and I think it's sort of in that vein of how folks talk about the the arts here, I guess, where it's, you know, neighborhood, community oriented, but then also you're able to kind of grow and expand.
Rob Lee:And I have seen sort of some of these other, you know, businesses here that are doing a thing, and they kind of say those those different things that I just mentioned about being and about the community and so on. And as they leave, because either something was not quite right, like, we can tell here, I think, pretty quickly if someone is about so to the city, and then doing stuff in the city and doing things well because as you talked about earlier, sort of the that that chef community, you know, everyone kinda know what everyone's doing. I've noticed this sort of theme when folks businesses kind of go down and I don't want anyone's business to go down, but the way that they behave on their way out, you know, it's just like, yeah, Baltimore kiss my ass as I leave. And I was just like, wow. This is a lot.
Rob Lee:And it's like, oh, we were right about you. You you sucked from the beginning. And
Jesse Sandlin:Right.
Rob Lee:And then, you know and I I think the quality of folks' food, the quality of the people that are there, the brand overall, as I was touching on earlier as far as, like, from the colors to how things are presented, it's all good. You know? And that's that's the thing, and that's the thing that I see with your your places. So, like, you know, big shout out to you, and, and thank you. Thank you for that.
Rob Lee:Thank you. That's that's that's a lovely compliment. I really appreciate that. So now that we've gotten to the lovely compliments and all of the good stuff, going to get to the weird part. That is the rapid fire portion of the podcast.
Rob Lee:These could be hit or miss. Some people are like, man, I don't know. You ask me about that. Other people are like, oh, keep them coming. Keep them coming.
Rob Lee:That you actually podcast. So, you know, as I, you know, will preface with everyone, you wanna overthink these questions there. You know, it's kind of like I said what I said. You know, this is what it is at that moment. So here's the first one.
Rob Lee:What is the last thing you ate?
Jesse Sandlin:Chicken enchiladas for lunch this afternoon. I made I've I've been doing this thing where I just get a bunch of boneless chicken thighs and throw them in the crock pot and cook them down with some enchilada sauce. And then, I make a big batch of enchiladas so that I just have something I can throw in the microwave, randomly. So that's that's my last meal.
Rob Lee:I get I like it. You You know? And and I'm always curious. Well, when you start talking with chefs, it's like, so what you what you what you have recently? I've you know, you're the first that didn't throw out, like, I got some leftovers.
Jesse Sandlin:I mean, technically, it is leftovers, but it's purposeful leftovers.
Rob Lee:That's what. So 3 for 3 then.
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah.
Rob Lee:In that in that in that same sort of territory, what would be your best tip for, like, home cooks? I mean, you know, culinary arts is a thing. You know, not everyone gets one training. Some people just sort of touch and feel. Like, I'm kind of a touch and feel guy, and when it comes to figuring things out, it's intuition.
Rob Lee:But what would be that number one thing that you can take someone who's, like, maybe a 5, they, you know, they can do a few things to maybe a 6 or 7. Like, I don't know how to fry chicken right or cook rice. So those are gaps for me. But
Jesse Sandlin:Get a rice cooker, number 1.
Rob Lee:I have one. That shows you how bad I am. But then at the same but then at the same time, I make a Japanese inspired smoked crab cake.
Jesse Sandlin:So Oh, I mean, I would say I would say just read recipes, read read through the entire thing, you know, like, read cookbooks, and learn about techniques and learn about different flavors that go together. And, you know, I I don't cook with a lot of recipes if I'm cooking at home, which to be honest is rare, but, I've been trying to do it more frequently just so, that I'm, you know, I'm kind of a homebody and I don't wanna order out all the time. But anyway, you know, I think if if you get an idea of what things go together, that becomes really important in just able to build your own dish out of what you kind of have on hand as opposed to needing to follow a recipe. And you can also derive a lot of inspiration just from looking through books and, reading about different techniques and and things like that. And then, I mean, just a lot of trial and error.
Jesse Sandlin:Like, just try things that you don't know how to do. You know, read up on them and and try it and learn from your mistakes. You know?
Rob Lee:It's good. Thank you. That's, that's that's really that's really good. I'll I'll share what I had before getting on because I just finished eating a meal before we got on. I'd roasted some potatoes, the other day, so October is for me as well.
Rob Lee:And I was like, oh, kind of want some, like, potatoes and eggs for some reason. And I got in from the the old day job, and I was like, we're making potatoes and eggs and having those potatoes on hand. And I because I think I batch I think I batch fried them off or roasted them actually. Batch roasted like these cute potatoes. And I was like, oh, this was great.
Rob Lee:This is exactly what I wanted. And I was full versus what I probably would have did is, yo, do I have any chocolate and some potato chips? Can I do
Jesse Sandlin:that? Oh, yeah.
Rob Lee:The wild combination. Where are the pickles? I got 2 more for you. What is your and I have a sense, but I'll ask, what is your your proudest moment as, you know, chef, owner, restaurateur? What is your proudest moment?
Jesse Sandlin:Oh, I don't know. I think I think maybe the first so I cook Thanksgiving dinner for my family at Sally O's every year now, And I think that 1st year of being able to be like, Hey, I'll do this, You guys all come here. And and just having this, like, great Thanksgiving spread and all of my family and, like, some friends. And, you know, now every year that I do it, I invite anybody from the restaurants who doesn't have a place to go. You know?
Jesse Sandlin:So it's this big kind of misfit toys Thanksgiving with my weird family. And I think that 1st year that I was able to do that kind of was something I was really proud of. Just to kind of say, like, we'll always have a place now. You know what I mean?
Rob Lee:Yeah. It's great. That's that's that's really nice. That's almost almost brought a tear to this, this this book. So here here's the last question.
Rob Lee:I want to preface it. So look at your social media. Right? I see I see the word pancakes in there. Any significance before I ask you an actual real question?
Jesse Sandlin:So there it's a it's an old nickname that a good friend of mine gave me. He I had his name is Andy or Andrew, and I had this he was a bartender around the at this bar around the corner from my apartment. And I just had this huge crush on him. And I got real drunk one night and I wrote my name and number down on a napkin. I decided I was gonna give it to him.
Jesse Sandlin:And I walk up to him at last call and I kinda slide it across the bar and I go, here's my number. Anytime you want some pancakes, give me a call. I'm fantastic. And then I just left. Good.
Jesse Sandlin:And so he has called me pancakes or cakes or, you know, some sort of version of that, ever since. So so that is is where that came from.
Rob Lee:That is that is great. I I love that. Yeah. Yep. That's that's a good one.
Rob Lee:I I have to ask then. I think I'm glad I actually wrote down this actual question. How do you like your pancakes?
Jesse Sandlin:Oh, butter and just I don't do any weird stuff in them. I just want really good regular buttermilk pancakes with, butter and and maple syrup. Yeah.
Rob Lee:Like it?
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah. Just straight up. I don't want whipped cream. I don't want a bunch of, you know, fruit. Blueberry pancakes.
Jesse Sandlin:Sure. Every now and again. But I don't want, like, cinnamon and apples and, you know, strawberries and all that stuff. I just want straight up really good pancakes.
Rob Lee:You're a purist. I love it.
Jesse Sandlin:I am. I am.
Rob Lee:But the same way.
Jesse Sandlin:Pizza the same. Like, I don't I as much as I love our pizzas at the dive and like the pickup pizza I think is excellent. Generally, if I'm getting a pizza, I'm like, pepperoni, or like, sausage and onions, you know, just very like simple. My, my mom used to put everything but the kitchen sink on her pizzas. And I was just like, it's so much stuff.
Jesse Sandlin:Like, just eat a salad. You know?
Rob Lee:That's that's that's great. Like, if I'm I'm having pancakes, like like you said, they're exactly the way occasion and and the thing is, I'm a creature of routine, and a creature of habit. I always get the same thing, and, like, it slaps every time. No notes. When I go to Ford, always sort of the the, like, the crab cake, the mushroom crab cake, what have you, and of course, the Rob Lee.
Rob Lee:And and I I was doing a lot, and I was just like, I can't have eaten as much bread. And because, you know, chefs love all of that, Chris comes up, Hey, man. I got, like, some, like, this giant pork rind. I was like, appreciate you, Chris. I was trying to wash those calories, but I'm gonna eat this because it looks
Jesse Sandlin:like Yeah.
Rob Lee:Great. That's great. And that is kinda it. Awesome. There's 2 things I wanna do in these final moments.
Rob Lee:One, I wanna thank you so much for spending some time with me today and sharing a bit of your story. This has been wonderful. And, and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can follow all of everything, All you, the restaurants, all of that good stuff, website, social media, all of that good stuff. The floor is yours.
Jesse Sandlin:Awesome. So you can find me on Instagram. I am, at Jesse Pancakes, j e s s e pancakes, just like the breakfast food. And then the restaurants are at sallyosmd@bunniesbaltimore and at the divebaltimore all on Instagram. You can find us, on the Facebook as well if anybody's still doing that.
Jesse Sandlin:And then Salios is located in Highland Town. Bunny's is in Fells Point, and the dive is in Canton.
Rob Lee:Oh, yeah. I was waiting for a TikTok to pop up, like, just like a sizzling TikTok of kitchen, fun. But I I have an I have
Jesse Sandlin:a TikTok account, but it's basically just so I can watch this one bird, Hamlet. I I just have never gotten into the TikTok, although most of my staff at bunnies, they're all younger. Well, not younger younger, but you know what I mean? Anyway, they love TikTok and they keep telling me I need to set us up by, Bunny's TikTok. So it may be in the future.
Jesse Sandlin:They all they all send me different TikToks. They call it my friendship homework. So, like, once a week, I go on and and I go through all of my TikTok videos that they've sent me and and and comment on them. But if I let them, like, if I let them add up too long, it gets I've got, like, 40 videos I've gotta watch. So I have to keep keep up on it on my days off.
Jesse Sandlin:But, yeah, TikTok in the in the future, but not quite yet.
Rob Lee:Meeting for that bubble vision at Bunnies.
Jesse Sandlin:Yeah. Bubble vision is a good one. Yeah.
Rob Lee:And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Jesse Sampling from Bunnies, Salios, and The Dive for coming on and spending some time with me today. And I'm Rob Lee saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.
